Can anyone tell me what counter-claiming in small claims courts entails?

[jacksorbetta]

The numskull contractor who hacked in my bathroom has filed a claim against me for withholding the last payment. I'm planning on counter-claiming him for repair costs to the damage he caused. Is this a difficult process? i have an appt with a lawyer on Thurs to discuss the options, but if it's something I can pursue on my own fairly simply, I'd sure appreciate some advice on it.

I don't plan on ever paying him another cent unless ordered to. He;s a pretty scary dude (showed up at my house at 4am screaming through the door), and has left me some threatening voice mails (which I've saved and will look into getting official transcripts of). I was also considering getting a restraining order against him in the meantime.

thanks for any help!

[jp06]

just wondering, did he register a lien on your house? or he's just being aggressive demanding the final payment for unfinished work? Hopefully you have a contract that lays out the details of payment for satisfactory and completed work, not some half-assed job.

[jacksorbetta]

just wondering, did he register a lien on your house? or he's just being aggressive demanding the final payment for unfinished work? Hopefully you have a contract that lays out the details of payment for satisfactory and completed work, not some half-assed job.

No lien- he only filed in small claims court. We have a written agreement for the job- was supposed to be 8 days (took 35:evil:), He made several costly mistakes, all of which he refused to fix unless i paid him more (as if!). I brought in his boss from Sears who gave the referral, and he was none too pleased. He told me that he had ordered this contractor loser to fix the job or he was fired, and told me to not pay him the last amount until it was done to my satisfaction. That was in July. I have not heard a thing from him since Sept 18th when I wrote him an email telling him to stop harrassing me, and that if he wanted his money, I wanted my bathroom fixed,. It's a standoff- he won;t do the work unless I pay him, and I won;t pay him unless he fixes it first.

I would actually prefer a lien on the house :lol:- I don't plan on moving for years, and by then I'm sure he will do a fly--by-night.

.Anywho, anyone have any advice for me? I'd really like to save the $ the lawyer would cost (being xmas and all) if possible.

[Majinvegeta]

No lien- he only filed in small claims court. We have a written agreement for the job- was supposed to be 8 days (took 35:evil:), He made several costly mistakes, all of which he refused to fix unless i paid him more (as if!). I brought in his boss from Sears who gave the referral, and he was none too pleased. He told me that he had ordered this contractor loser to fix the job or he was fired, and told me to not pay him the last amount until it was done to my satisfaction. That was in July. I have not heard a thing from him since Sept 18th when I wrote him an email telling him to stop harrassing me, and that if he wanted his money, I wanted my bathroom fixed,. It's a standoff- he won;t do the work unless I pay him, and I won;t pay him unless he fixes it first.

I would actually prefer a lien on the house :lol:- I don't plan on moving for years, and by then I'm sure he will do a fly--by-night.

.Anywho, anyone have any advice for me? I'd really like to save the $ the lawyer would cost (being xmas and all) if possible.

I am a nub to this but...

AFAIK, if the case is crystal clear in you winning...then very likely the judge will also order that person to pay your lawyer fees. You can also offer to settle outside of court. This will be another bonus that will work in your favor. Because if you settle outside of court you save people time and money. So it will work FOR you and AGAINST him.

I would think..if you can prove that he caused the damage to your bathroom + if that boss from sears is willing to support you + you offer to settle outside of court, then you should win.

But it may be more complicated than that.

[Ottomaddox]

I'm curious about (roughly) how much money we're talking about here, and how Sears is tied to this; you call the guy from Sears 'his boss'. Is this a 'Sears - Home Renovation' job?

[jacksorbetta]

I'm curious about (roughly) how much money we're talking about here, and how Sears is tied to this; you call the guy from Sears 'his boss'. Is this a 'Sears - Home Renovation' job?

It's for a balance of $1800. Not a lot, but at day 26, he "promised" (used those exact words) that it wouldn't be more than $1000. Then on the final day, after I walked through and told him I was disappointed in the finishing (I will attach pics later of the cockeyed shower head, broken cabinet doors, and horrible tile job) he handed me an invoice for $2500! I freaked out and told him he was out of his mind, and had broken our contract. Wasn't my fault the guy moved like molasses. I settled at $1800 just to get him out of my house. Keep in mind, he's 6'4", 250, loud and intimidating. he actually frightened me.
the owner of the local Sears had referred me to him- he does contract work for them, and the owner gives out his name for extra jobs. I had checked several references before I hired him, and because Sears referred I ran with it.
After the owner came to see the job ( I called him the next day), he told me to holdback the payment until the contractor returned and corrected everything. Then he went and had a talkk with him. I got a scathing email telling me to keep my trap shut and pay him or else. Well, no way was I letting that chq clear after that, so I put a stop payment on it

So now here we are.

[Nikita]

You can attend at you city's Small Claims Court and get a booklet and all necessary forms that explain step by step how to use that court. In you're case you can defend and counterclaim on the same form, the Defense. There's a couple of links that also provide helpful info as well as the forms required, and I suggest you read through this stuff but ALSO use the help of the clerks in the SCC office, use every resource available to you. Here are the links:

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/courts/scc/

Guide to procedures and rules:
http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/courts/guides/

Forms:
http://www.ontariocourtforms.on.ca/english/scc/

Specifically you'll need form 9A (9A Defence to Plaintiff’s Claim/Defendant’s Claim) to start.

Also, the clerks in SCC can be very helpful (as long as you're nice and respectful with them, it's not their fault if you're waiting two hours for your number to get called), you always want them onside willing to help.

SCC is very paper heavy but also less expensive. It's layperson friendly, so unless it's a very complex case, or you don't have the time or inclination to do it yourself and don't care about the cost of retaining a lawyer, I always suggest people do it w/o a lawyer. If nothing else, it's a great learning experience and, from what I've heard, a great feeling when you win and you've done it all on your own.

But, please NOTE: you only have 20 days after being serve with a claim to file your defense, so get moving...lol!

Anyway, good luck, please keep us posted.


I am a nub to this but...

AFAIK, if the case is crystal clear in you winning...then very likely the judge will also order that person to pay your lawyer fees.

Unfortunately, the maximum you can claim for lawyers fees is $300 (under very special circumstances that can be doubled).

[jacksorbetta]

thank you Nikita for your reply. Some of that info is valid in BC, but some of the laws are bit different- we have 14 days to file a reply etc

The lawyer I saw today pretty much told me to counterclaim for replacement costs, labour etc, and dispute the $owing. I'm going to make a list this weekend, then file next week. Apparently, it can take over a YEAR:lol: for this to work it's way to mediation and/or court. Gives me lots of time to get written "values of work completed".

The fact is, he has devalued my home with the shoddy work. One estimate I got for repair costs is over $2500 just for labour! then add in replacing the cabinets, tile, paint, shower surround etc. I'm fighting him on it all the way though!

[help_questions]

You can attend at you city's Small Claims Court and get a booklet and all necessary forms that explain step by step how to use that court. In you're case you can defend and counterclaim on the same form, the Defense. There's a couple of links that also provide helpful info as well as the forms required, and I suggest you read through this stuff but ALSO use the help of the clerks in the SCC office, use every resource available to you. Here are the links:

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/courts/scc/

Guide to procedures and rules:
http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/courts/guides/

Forms:
http://www.ontariocourtforms.on.ca/english/scc/

Specifically you'll need form 9A (9A Defence to Plaintiff’s Claim/Defendant’s Claim) to start.

Also, the clerks in SCC can be very helpful (as long as you're nice and respectful with them, it's not their fault if you're waiting two hours for your number to get called), you always want them onside willing to help.

SCC is very paper heavy but also less expensive. It's layperson friendly, so unless it's a very complex case, or you don't have the time or inclination to do it yourself and don't care about the cost of retaining a lawyer, I always suggest people do it w/o a lawyer. If nothing else, it's a great learning experience and, from what I've heard, a great feeling when you win and you've done it all on your own.

But, please NOTE: you only have 20 days after being serve with a claim to file your defense, so get moving...lol!

Anyway, good luck, please keep us posted.




Unfortunately, the maximum you can claim for lawyers fees is $300 (under very special circumstances that can be doubled).


$300? I thought is was $1500......

[Nikita]

thank you Nikita for your reply. Some of that info is valid in BC, but some of the laws are bit different- we have 14 days to file a reply etc
The lawyer I saw today pretty much told me to counterclaim for replacement costs, labour etc, and dispute the $owing. I'm going to make a list this weekend, then file next week. Apparently, it can take over a YEAR:lol: for this to work it's way to mediation and/or court. Gives me lots of time to get written "values of work completed".

The fact is, he has devalued my home with the shoddy work. One estimate I got for repair costs is over $2500 just for labour! then add in replacing the cabinets, tile, paint, shower surround etc. I'm fighting him on it all the way though!

Sorry jacksorbetta, I didn't realize you are in BC, I assumed that, like the majority of users here (myself excluded) you were in Toronto. Anyway, glad to see you got a lawyer. Good luck to you...:)

[/B]

$300? I thought is was $1500......

Actually the regulation has been changed and it now doesn't limit the amount of legal fees that can be recovered for claims over $500.

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_980258_e.htm

Representation Fee

19.04 (1) If the amount claimed in an action exceeds $500, exclusive of interest and costs, and the successful party is represented by a lawyer, student-at-law or agent, the court may award the party a reasonable representation fee at trial or at an assessment hearing. O. Reg. 78/06, s. 39.

(2) In the case of a student-at-law or an agent, the representation fee shall not exceed half of the maximum costs that may be awarded under section 29 of the Courts of Justice Act. O. Reg. 78/06, s. 39.

I wasn't aware of the change till you questioned my post, so thank you, I've not had a reason lately to check that. And I say it's about damned time. Lawyers have been waiting for that ridiculous $300 max to be raised ever since they raised the jurisdiction in SCC to $10,000. As an access to justice issue that's very good news for litigants.