new bell network question

[Sonbuster]

is the voice portion of the new network dependent on either UMTS 850/1900/2100 and/or HSDP 850/1900/2100.

if i'm looking for a 3rd party unlocked sim phone, which specification should i look out for [assuming for voice only]? thanks RFD.

[tomtomtom]

I think you meant HSDPA instead of HDSP. HSDPA is an upgrade to UMTS (not UTMS), where downloading can go to 7.2Mbps. Of course, real world speed would never approach that.

Both voice (and data) on bell's network would be operation on 850mhz and 1900mhz, (not 2100mhz, this frequency are used in Europe and Asia Pacific)

Say an iPhone, it supports 850/1900/2100 on umts and hsdpa. On Bell's network, you would get download speed of up to 7.2mbps

[Sonbuster]

I think you meant HSDPA instead of HDSP. HSDPA is an upgrade to UMTS (not UTMS), where downloading can go to 7.2Mbps. Of course, real world speed would never approach that.

Both voice (and data) on bell's network would be operation on 850mhz and 1900mhz, (not 2100mhz, this frequency are used in Europe and Asia Pacific)

Say an iPhone, it supports 850/1900/2100 on umts and hsdpa. On Bell's network, you would get download speed of up to 7.2mbps

Thanks TOMTOMTOM, i've corrected the acronyms above.

so if i were to buy an unlocked phone, i'd have to look for something that is HSDPA 850/1900 in order for voice to work right?

[tomtomtom]

Yes, just post the model, we can let u know if it is compatible. But let me tell ya, your choices are somewhat limited. There isn't a lot of phones compatible with our frequency, not as much as the 2100mhz 3g

[Sonbuster]

Yes, just post the model, we can let u know if it is compatible. But let me tell ya, your choices are somewhat limited. There isn't a lot of phones compatible with our frequency, not as much as the 2100mhz 3g

would you happen know what is the cheapest HSDPA phone that will work on the new bell network [to buy outright]?

[tomtomtom]

http://www.bell.ca/shopping/en_CA_ON.Nokia-2730/98859.details

[Sonbuster]

http://www.bell.ca/shopping/en_CA_ON.Nokia-2730/98859.details

thanks again for your help tomtomtom

[Paolo]

there is no such thing as 2100 mhz, but there is IMT and AWS, none of whitch Bellus owns.

[tomtomtom]

http://store.apple.com/ca/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone?mco=OTY2ODA0NQ
iPhone's specification
Cellular and wireless

* UMTS/HSDPA (850, 1900, 2100 MHz)
* GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz)
* Wi-Fi (802.11b/g)
* Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR

Can we try to make it simple for newbie?

Edit: Bellus has won some AWS frequency from the last auction, just not deployed yet.

[Paolo]

the iphone should not read 2100, it should read IMT MHz because the uplink is different. there is currently no imt spectrum in canada, yes you can scan it with a imt capable phone but you can not connect to it.

[Jonavin]

there is no such thing as 2100 mhz, but there is IMT and AWS, none of whitch Bellus owns.

Bell owns AWS spectrum... probably more than WIND but they haven't deployed a network on it yet.

The iPhone doesn't support AWS.

OP,

If you're looking for an unlocked phone for Bell (or Telus for that matter), look for a phone with "UMTS" or "HSPA"/"HSDPA"/"HSUPA" on the 850 and 1900 band. You really need both otherwise you're not going to get full coverage if the phone only has 850 or 1900.

A phone compatible with Bell or Telus's HSPA network will be 100% compatible with Rogers and Fido, but it's not true the other way around unless it's a 3G Rogers/Fido phone.

[tweetybird]

Thanks TOMTOMTOM, i've corrected the acronyms above.

so if i were to buy an unlocked phone, i'd have to look for something that is HSDPA 850/1900 in order for voice to work right?

I have not heard Bell say they support unlocked phones, I know Telus advertise they do.

[Jonavin]

I have not heard Bell say they support unlocked phones, I know Telus advertise they do.

You can do SIM-only activations. You can actually order a SIM online and activate it. Cost is free if you do a minimum 1 year contract, $5 if you want to go month to month.

Also, there are unadvertised discount of 5% (1yr), 10% (2yr) and 20%(3yr) for those activating on a new contract with unlocked phones. The discount is only on the base plan and does not include SAF or options. These discount is only available in-store and only used to "close the deal" on contract.

If/when you decide to get a Bell phone with subsidies later, your discounts will be removed. The discounts remain if you pay full price for Bell phones.

[xtcnrice]

You can do SIM-only activations. You can actually order a SIM online and activate it. Cost is free if you do a minimum 1 year contract, $5 if you want to go month to month.

Also, there are unadvertised discount of 5% (1yr), 10% (2yr) and 20%(3yr) for those activating on a new contract with unlocked phones. The discount is only on the base plan and does not include SAF or options. These discount is only available in-store and only used to "close the deal" on contract.

If/when you decide to get a Bell phone with subsidies later, your discounts will be removed. The discounts remain if you pay full price for Bell phones.

So will I be able to order the SIM off the website for $5 (I'm assuming there's some sort of obscene shipping charge but regardless) and provide them information (such as IMEI or something) about the phone I want this to be activated on, and it will arrive in ready-to-use condition for i.e. an unlocked HSPA phone (assuming it supports proper bands)?

[Jonavin]

So will I be able to order the SIM off the website for $5 (I'm assuming there's some sort of obscene shipping charge but regardless) and provide them information (such as IMEI or something) about the phone I want this to be activated on, and it will arrive in ready-to-use condition for i.e. an unlocked HSPA phone (assuming it supports proper bands)?

Yes. All you have to do is pick a plan, but they do charge the stupid $35 activation fee unless you get it waived some how (not sure if it's possible).

[tomtomtom]

So will I be able to order the SIM off the website for $5 (I'm assuming there's some sort of obscene shipping charge but regardless) and provide them information (such as IMEI or something) about the phone I want this to be activated on, and it will arrive in ready-to-use condition for i.e. an unlocked HSPA phone (assuming it supports proper bands)?

I walked into Bell store and they would not let me leave without a sim unactivated.

Meaning 5 bux for sim + 35 activation fee =40.

I wanted to activate on a prepaid just to try it out. (Maybe in the future, switch over to postpaid and avoid the activation fee + score a nice retention plan)

The sales said prepaid maybe offered later this month. I would take his word with skepticism.

[xtcnrice]

Yes. All you have to do is pick a plan, but they do charge the stupid $35 activation fee unless you get it waived some how (not sure if it's possible).

Oh ic. I forgot to tell you that I'm currently with Bell with < 1 year left on my contract. The important info/question is, I already have a plan with them, will I be able to transfer my existing plan onto the new phone I was talking about earlier?

EDIT: Thank you for replying btw!

[xtcnrice]

I walked into Bell store and they would not let me leave without a sim unactivated.

Meaning 5 bux for sim + 35 activation fee =40.

I wanted to activate on a prepaid just to try it out. (Maybe in the future, switch over to postpaid and avoid the activation fee + score a nice retention plan)

The sales said prepaid maybe offered later this month. I would take his word with skepticism.

Oh, interesting. Do you think they'll force me to pay that $35 activation fee if I'm already an existing customer and all I want to do is transfer from my CDMA-only phone to a new HSPA-compatible one?

I plan to walk into a Bell store sometime this week hopefully, but I've been flocked with a bunch of work with the university atm so I'm reluctant to make a detour from my usual ways of going home from school.

[Paolo]

the stupid thing I see is you can't buy a SIM for a SPARE? what if your on the road traveling a lot and not near any Bellus Mobility store? I would want to carry an extra Bell SIM on me like in my breifcase for safe keeping, so if i were to PUK my SIM or Lose it or Damage it, i would just call into their 1-800 number, or 310 in the case of bell, and ask them to do a SIM SWAP.

WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND BELL?

you refuse to sell it activated? well why cant i buy 2 of them and just activate one? huh? I'm not impressed Mr. Michael Sabia!

[tomtomtom]

WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND BELL?

you refuse to sell it activated? well why cant i buy 2 of them and just activate one? huh? I'm not impressed Mr. Michael Sabia!

Bell isn't making it simple at all.

Sabia left Bell long ago and become a CEO for Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec.

[Paolo]

Bell isn't making it simple at all.

Sabia left Bell long ago and become a CEO for Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec.

its about time that jack (_)_) left.

bell is suppost to be simple, simple as one two three.

[kika55]

Just to clarify some technical matters.

So, if I get this right, from now on you can use GSM phones on Bell and Telus networks but only the phones that have HSPA radio on 850/1900 Mhz. These phones won't be using GSM frequency but only HSPA 850/1900 Mhz.

Is this correct?

[Jonavin]

Just to clarify some technical matters.

So, if I get this right, from now on you can use GSM phones on Bell and Telus networks but only the phones that have HSPA radio on 850/1900 Mhz. These phones won't be using GSM frequency but only HSPA 850/1900 Mhz.

Is this correct?

Yes. With a Bell/Telus SIM you will only use the GSM mode of the phones when you are outside of Canada. In Canada, it will rely on their HSPA network.

[Paolo]

how hard is that to grasp? there are phones with both 3g and 2g, you will only be using the 3G portion for voice/data on Bellus. just think of the 2g portion in the phone is not there, even though we all know there is no 2g gsm radio network on bellus. i wonder how many people bought bellus sim cards and put them in unlocked 2g gsm phones only to find it says no service or emergency calls only?

[kika55]

Yes. With a Bell/Telus SIM you will only use the GSM mode of the phones when you are outside of Canada. In Canada, it will rely on their HSPA network.

Hmm. That's rather original. In this case 2 questions will eventually arise:
1. Since it's a new network, are they going to give some guarantee on the coverage area. It's going to be a royal pain in the ass to sign a Canadian favorite 3-year contract and find out eventually that your phone doesn't have a decent reception area.
2. Are they going to supply extended batteries with their branded GSM phones? Those phones in 3G-only mode will drain their batteries pronto.

[angelruby]

how about my phone?

http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_s5600_preston-2738.php

i took it into bell and they put my imei in some compatibility checker they have and it says no.
but my 3G is 2100.
I know it doesnt work with rogers or fido's 3G cuz ive tried >.<

[mlerner]

Hmm. That's rather original. In this case 2 questions will eventually arise:
1. Since it's a new network, are they going to give some guarantee on the coverage area. It's going to be a royal pain in the ass to sign a Canadian favorite 3-year contract and find out eventually that your phone doesn't have a decent reception area.
2. Are they going to supply extended batteries with their branded GSM phones? Those phones in 3G-only mode will drain their batteries pronto.

Original in our country, but only because Rogers keeps the legacy networks. In other parts of the world, they tend to replace and upgrade the entire network far quicker.
1. No provider can ever guarantee coverage but Telus/Bell seems to have a well built network that should reach most areas. You can get an idea for coverage on Bell's site, unless you're living out in the middle of nowhere, it should give you a reasonable estimate.
2. Depends on the phone. Blackberry seems fine in 3G only. iPhone could be better but it's not too bad. If you get the cheapie phones of course you're not going to get the best battery life.

[mlerner]

how about my phone?

http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_s5600_preston-2738.php

i took it into bell and they put my imei in some compatibility checker they have and it says no.
but my 3G is 2100.
I know it doesnt work with rogers or fido's 3G cuz ive tried >.<

You should check these things before buying. Bell/Telus DO NOT run on 900 / 2100. Should work on Rogers for at least voice, maybe GPRS or EDGE data but no 3G at all on any carrier in North America.

[Jonavin]

how about my phone?

http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_s5600_preston-2738.php

i took it into bell and they put my imei in some compatibility checker they have and it says no.
but my 3G is 2100.
I know it doesnt work with rogers or fido's 3G cuz ive tried >.<

If it doesn't work on Rogers/Fido in 3G it WON'T work on Bell/Telus either because they use the same bands.

[kika55]

Original in our country, but only because Rogers keeps the legacy networks. In other parts of the world, they tend to replace and upgrade the entire network far quicker.
1. No provider can ever guarantee coverage but Telus/Bell seems to have a well built network that should reach most areas. You can get an idea for coverage on Bell's site, unless you're living out in the middle of nowhere, it should give you a reasonable estimate.
2. Depends on the phone. Blackberry seems fine in 3G only. iPhone could be better but it's not too bad. If you get the cheapie phones of course you're not going to get the best battery life.

1.Of course the Jolly Rogers keeps a firm grip on GSM license. My concern mostly is with the brand new HSPA network that Bellus is pushing. The map on the Bell's site has all Southern Ontario completely covered. But it is just marketing material. In reality they had to install new HSPA equipment all over the place. Imagine, they had to put new transmitters on each and every tower across the country. Huge task. Could it be just like in the good old days of the birth of cellular, when you were happy to catch a signal.

2. Bellus don't offer crappy phones for this. The whole idea of HSPA network is to push spanking new smartphones with huge displays, which tend to need a lot of battery juice.
Actually, Blackberries don't need 3G at all. Their BES thing works fine in 2G, saving a lot of battery life.

[Jonavin]

1.Of course the Jolly Rogers keeps a firm grip on GSM license. My concern mostly is with the brand new HSPA network that Bellus is pushing. The map on the Bell's site has all Southern Ontario completely covered. But it is just marketing material. In reality they had to install new HSPA equipment all over the place. Imagine, they had to put new transmitters on each and every tower across the country. Huge task. Could it be just like in the good old days of the birth of cellular, when you were happy to catch a signal.

2. Bellus don't offer crappy phones for this. The whole idea of HSPA network is to push spanking new smartphones with huge displays, which tend to need a lot of battery juice.
Actually, Blackberries don't need 3G at all. Their BES thing works fine in 2G, saving a lot of battery life.

Are you saying that their maps are lying? You know they've been deploying the network for the past 2 years not just in a few months. Much of the requirements for a 3G network such as back-haul connections were already in place at these sites long ago because there was already 3G CDMA coverage. People have been detecting these Bell/Telus towers for nearly a year now.

At this point it's actually more expensive to put up a 2G tower than a 3G tower in terms of spectrum costs per user (upto 10X). So I would rather have Bell/Telus continue plugging any holes with 3G towers.

If I have to live with just 2G I will throw my phone against the wall. I find both the iPhone, unusable for data with just a 2G connection. One of my older iPhone 2G has a broken wifi and using it in just 2G on Rogers can drive one into anger.

[tomtomtom]

If I have to live with just 2G I will throw my phone against the wall. I find both the iPhone, unusable for data with just a 2G connection. One of my older iPhone 2G has a broken wifi and using it in just 2G on Rogers can drive one into anger.

Actually both 2G and 3G on Rogers is a pain in the a. The whole spectrum is clogged up, my bold often get the arrow up, then arrow down icon (meaning sending request out and receiving request) but nothing is loaded until half a minute later and I am using opera and bolt (not bb stock browser)

[kika55]

Are you saying that their maps are lying?
No, it's not a lie, it's a business lie. Big difference!:D

[Paolo]

"its not a lie its a pho phuc lai"