Lawyers fees - probate application

[coghlan]

How common is it for lawyers to charge a % to process an application for probate?

Like, shouldn't this be just a flat-fee service for most people (bank accounts and a will)?

I think many people are unaware that, although their lawyer charged $200 to make their will, they can charge thousands when it comes to applying to Ontario court for probate.

[pitz]

How common is it for lawyers to charge a % to process an application for probate?


Very common. There's a fee schedule that's published in the Rules of Court. An executor can obviously shop around for a lower cost lawyer if they choose to do so, or do some of the work themselves.


Like, shouldn't this be just a flat-fee service for most people (bank accounts and a will)?


The services offered vary significantly. Someone who just has a bank account, a house, and a spouse, with only one beneficiary, has a much different estate than one who, for instance, owns foreign stocks, might owe US inheritance taxes, etc. As a rule of thumb, the more $$$ in the estate, the more complicated it is.


I think many people are unaware that, although their lawyer charged $200 to make their will, they can charge thousands when it comes to applying to Ontario court for probate.

Professionals do not work for free. $200 for a will implies that the estate is either trivial in nature, or the lawyer is deliberately charging low fees to bring in business.

[coghlan]

Very common. There's a fee schedule that's published in the Rules of Court. An executor can obviously shop around for a lower cost lawyer if they choose to do so, or do some of the work themselves.

The services offered vary significantly. Someone who just has a bank account, a house, and a spouse, with only one beneficiary, has a much different estate than one who, for instance, owns foreign stocks, might owe US inheritance taxes, etc. As a rule of thumb, the more $$$ in the estate, the more complicated it is.

Professionals do not work for free. $200 for a will implies that the estate is either trivial in nature, or the lawyer is deliberately charging low fees to bring in business.
Well, I'm just going through this now for a relative who passed away. The lawyer is charging a couple of grand for a *very* simple estate (1 GIC, 1 mutual fund, a couple of bank accounts and 2 executors who are the sole beneficiaries).

If you ask me, it was just a clerical exercise (fill out forms and submit them to the court), and I would highly recommend that people "shop" a will around for a flat fee when a very simple estate is involved.

[audit13]

I handled the estates for both of my parents who died about 4 years apart and I never probabted the wills. They had no debts, only real property.

Based on lawyers I have spoken with, probate is not always necessary.

[coghlan]

I handled the estates for both of my parents who died about 4 years apart and I never probabted the wills. They had no debts, only real property.

Based on lawyers I have spoken with, probate is not always necessary.
You don't need to go through probate if assets are held jointly, or if the value of the assets is less than (I believe) $50K.

Otherwise, if the deceased person has a $100K mutual fund, you're looking at $1,500 probate fees (Ontario) plus the lawyers can charge another 2% for a total of $3,500. A $200K mutual fund will run you $3,000 (Ontario) plus up to $6,000 in lawyers' fees. If a person doesn't want to hold his/her assets jointly with the beneficiaries, then shopping around might at least keep the legal fees in check.

[audit13]

You don't need to go through probate if assets are held jointly, or if the value of the assets is less than (I believe) $50K.

Otherwise, if the deceased person has a $100K mutual fund, you're looking at $1,500 probate fees (Ontario) plus the lawyers can charge another 2% for a total of $3,500. A $200K mutual fund will run you $3,000 (Ontario) plus up to $6,000 in lawyers' fees. If a person doesn't want to hold his/her assets jointly with the beneficiaries, then shopping around might at least keep the legal fees in check.

My parents held their real property as joint tenants and as such, I was told that the ownership simply passed to the surviving tenants and did not form part of the deceased person's estate. I don't think it really made much difference since my parents left everything to each other.