Tried to buy an Equinox today.. no go.

[Jungle]

So, in follow up to this thread I posted, http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/anyone-buy-new-gm-lately-using-gm-points-card-809436/ and doing researching from other buyers on this fourm, I went to North York Chevy and tried to buy a 2010 Exuinox LS. MSRP is $25999.

I've never bought a new car and always bought from used private sales.

I test drove the car with my wife, then sat down with the sales guy. He started going over what I could afford on payments, so I told him straight up that I would by the car today, if the price was right, not payments. He would not budge on the price. $25999. I told him that I knew the wholesale price was 238XX from the Car cost canada report I saw posted online. He then tried to say that the current promo (GM $1000 holiday promo) is the discount he can offer. I told him that the GM discounts are manufacture discounts and I wanted to see what HE could do, not the manufacturer.

He then said he would give free car washes and coupons for oil changes, the dealer is the best in the area, all the services they have etc, tying to sell the car based on that. He even tried to say that he would fill the car tires with nitrogen, I told him I wasn't interested in that as it's like $200 more. I asked him if there is an administration fee, he said it's $490, another turn off, and never offered any reduction.

Anyways, I told him again, I would buy the car if the price was right, give me your best offer. Around in circles we went, he would not budge. His response was that they are selling so much that they are out of stock with a 6 week wait and were selling them at full price. He also said in December GM was raising the price of the Equinox, too. I ended up leaving, he said do you want to buy it as I left? I told him I'd have to think about it. He says " I don't want to loose a customer" and didn't even ask for my phone number to follow up.

Anyway it was a horrible experience as I hate haggling and fighting with dealers over this stuff, but I do want to buy one so I have no choice to deal with it.

My concern is this:
Do you think he was lying about GM raising the MSRP of the Equinox?
DO you think dealers are being firm based on that they are selling fast?

I am going to try other dealership and purchase the Car Cost Canada report and hope this works better.


Any suggestions or help from the RFD community?

[AGR-1]

You never made an offer!

If you know the cost, put in a reasonable profit, and make an offer, give the sales person something to work with, not a discussion of prices, and pricing.

Take out money, a cheque, or a credit card, and make an offer.

[mmhassa2]

My suggestion would be buy a APA report which basically bargains the price on your behalf and gives you the info of the dealership who is willing to sell it at that price. Take that to a dealership of your choice and ask them to match it and beat it (by adding some goodies). MUCH better than sitting for hours haggling prices. Thanks to a fellow RFDer we purchased the report for our 09 Ml350 and were in and out in about 30 mins and got a very competitive price. Plus you dont pay any admin fees using APA.

[fooit]

Why didn't you offer him your price instead of waiting for his offer?
If you have the CCC report and know all the incentives, just put it on the table and tell him that you are ready to buy this car for whatever price you calculated?

On the other hand homework has to be done and market researched, so if Equinox is selling like hot muffins, no dealer has it in stock and you have to wait 6 weeks for a car, then I can understand why the salesman didn't budge - why would he if the car sells so good.

[npinc]

It seems odd that GM would jack the MSRP up. They're practically giving cars away right now and there's a reason they went crawling to the government. I can't see it making sound sense to raise prices right now when everyone else is lowering them. I suppose it's possible, but it wouldn't make any sense.

I really don't believe they're flying away either.. 6 week wait? Seems to me you found one sitting on the lot that you were perfectly happy with. Do you suppose you're the ONLY one in the entire area that would be satisfied with the one you were looking at, such that they'd wait SIX WEEKS for one?

I mean.. For one, the Equinox isn't exactly the highest rated vehicle in the GM lineup as it is. It's close to Christmas and not everyone is going to plop $26,000 down on the desk for a car. The cash for clunkers program is over. People have the "I want it NOW!" attitude...and especially for a vehicle that isn't the highest demand to begin with I can't see them waiting 6 weeks for it when there's a perfectly nice one sitting in the lot.

I dunno. Your call. I think he was seeing dollar signs, maybe because he sensed an urgency in you to have it.

[sonyminidiscman]

just go to another dealer....... no test drive...

Before you go, work out this number...

cost+(dealer profit)+admin fee+tax+aircon tax+licence fee = OnTheRoad price

dealer profit usually 500 bucks...

admin fee varies, so u'll ahve to call around and ask

tax is tax...

Now you go in, ask the sales, i want this car, with this feature, within x weeks, for (OTR) dollars on the road. can you work somehting out? I don't need to test drive or waste your time. If you can do it, I buy today.

if his return offer is ok, then u get the car, if not, u go try another gm dealer

[daftfunk]

^ agree. No test drive. Just give the new dealer your best offer.

[thephenom]

I thought CCC had a pre-negotiated dealer that will that the offer like APA.

[Qwest905]

my dad just purchased a 2LT 2010 Chevy Equinox
he waited 8 weeks to get it delivered...so i would say yes the dealer is right that they don't budge much on the price b/c it is on such a high demand right now

but he got plenty of options with it
he got FWD v6 engine
- rear liftgate
- blue cool interior lighting
- rear camera assist
- 18" rims w/ lock nuts
- sunroof/roof rack
- cargo net and cover for rear
- remote car starter
- bluetooth/ stereo w/ sub

for $37k on the road

i'm not sure if that's a good deal or not
anyone care to chime in?

[stealth]

Why so much demand for the Equinox all of a sudden? My wife got hers about 18 months ago, its nothing special at all. I thought the SUV market was dead?

I sympathize with the OP. I'm in the market for a vehicle as well, and in spite of all the recession hype in the press this year, noone seems all that eager to earn my business, esp. in this country.

[Qwest905]

new 2010 equinox is totally differnet from the years previous...

they are getting great reviews from everyone

[Jungle]

You never made an offer!

If you know the cost, put in a reasonable profit, and make an offer, give the sales person something to work with, not a discussion of prices, and pricing.

Take out money, a cheque, or a credit card, and make an offer.

Yea, I should have made him an offer, at least I would have known if he countered lower, and that would call him on the bluff that they arn't lowering price.

[Jungle]

just go to another dealer....... no test drive...

Before you go, work out this number...

cost+(dealer profit)+admin fee+tax+aircon tax+licence fee = OnTheRoad price

dealer profit usually 500 bucks...

admin fee varies, so u'll ahve to call around and ask

tax is tax...

Now you go in, ask the sales, i want this car, with this feature, within x weeks, for (OTR) dollars on the road. can you work somehting out? I don't need to test drive or waste your time. If you can do it, I buy today.

if his return offer is ok, then u get the car, if not, u go try another gm dealer

Yea, I will do this next when I go in other dealers. Clear as mud now. Through the haze, excitement and fustration, I did not see this method. Should be easy now, less stressful. :)

[Jungle]

my dad just purchased a 2LT 2010 Chevy Equinox
he waited 8 weeks to get it delivered...so i would say yes the dealer is right that they don't budge much on the price b/c it is on such a high demand right now

but he got plenty of options with it
he got FWD v6 engine
- rear liftgate
- blue cool interior lighting
- rear camera assist
- 18" rims w/ lock nuts
- sunroof/roof rack
- cargo net and cover for rear
- remote car starter
- bluetooth/ stereo w/ sub

for $37k on the road

i'm not sure if that's a good deal or not
anyone care to chime in?

Well, that is like 10K more than base model, as it has everything exceprt AWD, including the V6 engine.

[Qwest905]

good luck jungle!!

[legendofxix]

whatever "profit" you decide to give them, make sure that the admin fee is included as part of that.
Why the hell are you paying them MORE money to do paperwork they are required to do.
You are a sucker if you willingly pay the admin fee.

The cost you should be armed with is
Invoice + (Car Profit + Admin Fee) + License + Aircon tax

[ottofly]

Why so much demand for the Equinox all of a sudden? My wife got hers about 18 months ago, its nothing special at all. I thought the SUV market was dead?

I sympathize with the OP. I'm in the market for a vehicle as well, and in spite of all the recession hype in the press this year, noone seems all that eager to earn my business, esp. in this country.

You're late to the party I'm afraid. Prices have firmed up. There was a window of opportunity from about Feb-September on most makes. The rebates have gotten progressively worse with each passing month. Inventory has stabilized and the big rebates are mostly on 2009's if you can find any. Rebates on 2010s are tiny. Even Hyundai has stopped selling Accents at $9995. I picked up a 2010 Vibe 1SA for $16350 OTD in early August. Same car today is around $19,000 OTD.

As for the OP, +1 on the APA report. Save yourself the hassle. You will not do better on your own. Spend the $75, get the report, take it to a dealer and get them to better it, or toss in a few extras.

[Jungle]

You're late to the party I'm afraid. Prices have firmed up. There was a window of opportunity from about Feb-September on most makes. The rebates have gotten progressively worse with each passing month. Inventory has stabilized and the big rebates are mostly on 2009's if you can find any. Rebates on 2010s are tiny. Even Hyundai has stopped selling Accents at $9995. I picked up a 2010 Vibe 1SA for $16350 OTD in early August. Same car today is around $19,000 OTD.

As for the OP, +1 on the APA report. Save yourself the hassle. You will not do better on your own. Spend the $75, get the report, take it to a dealer and get them to better it, or toss in a few extras.


Sorry not to familiar with the APA report, what does it entail?

[stealth]

You're late to the party I'm afraid. Prices have firmed up. There was a window of opportunity from about Feb-September on most makes. The rebates have gotten progressively worse with each passing month. Inventory has stabilized and the big rebates are mostly on 2009's if you can find any. Rebates on 2010s are tiny. Even Hyundai has stopped selling Accents at $9995. I picked up a 2010 Vibe 1SA for $16350 OTD in early August. Same car today is around $19,000 OTD.



Mostly true it seems. I think Infiniti now is having bigger rebates ($5k) than they did earlier in the year.

T-Man's Chrysler thread has been interesting in terms of watching the trends in rebates/incentives being offerred, and they certainly have diminished. if only I wanted a Chrysler :)
I'm more interested in Audi, and they wont even give you a cup of coffee with one of their cars :)

[afretes]

I don't get it, if you hate doing this, simply pay MSRP!

Let me tell you something; do you honestly think that you know more about buying cars than the salesperson? You may buy a car once every 4 to 5 years, and you are most likely dealing with a guy that perhaps sells a minimum of 10 cars per month, who's more experienced?
IMO, build some profit for the guy and be happy.

Anyway it was a horrible experience as I hate haggling and fighting with dealers over this stuff, but I do want to buy one so I have no choice to deal with it.

[zivan56]

Why would you pay MSRP? I personally consider it an "idiot tax." You can pay organization like APA to save you at least a grand. Even if they didn't exist, it still is an idiot tax...go to all the dealers nearby and fight/argue until they give you a discount. Just consider it an insult when they ask you to pay MSRP, that should help you get into the right train of though. Unless the car is in very limited production, there is no reason not to get below MSRP.

[ThePointblank]

Why so much demand for the Equinox all of a sudden? My wife got hers about 18 months ago, its nothing special at all. I thought the SUV market was dead?

I sympathize with the OP. I'm in the market for a vehicle as well, and in spite of all the recession hype in the press this year, noone seems all that eager to earn my business, esp. in this country.

Compact SUV's and crossovers are selling really well compared to the usual SUV's people think of. It can be very difficult to get one in stock, and for most models, production is having trouble keeping up with demand.

[Jungle]

I don't get it, if you hate doing this, simply pay MSRP!

Let me tell you something; do you honestly think that you know more about buying cars than the salesperson? You may buy a car once every 4 to 5 years, and you are most likely dealing with a guy that perhaps sells a minimum of 10 cars per month, who's more experienced?
IMO, build some profit for the guy and be happy.

Well, I never said that I know more about buying cars than the salesman in my post. This is the first dealership experience I've had (as I always bought used) and it was not easy to negotiate with him; he seemed firm. As other said, I should have gave a former offer, to see what would happen. I can always go back to antother dealer :)

[jed]

Equinox is selling like it is because its a new model, and it is proving to be popular. If you were to wait awhile, you`d likely see things loosen up a bit. But my crystal ball isn't guaranteed.

That doesn`t mean you won`t get a discount, just the reasoning.

[sb_tor]

It has always been APA for me. I suck at negotiating.
However, if this is a hot selling model, APA probably will not have negotiated a huge discount. but I have always seen at least 1K because they negotiate invoice price on everything including options, and then add the mark-up.

[mmhassa2]

I don't get it, if you hate doing this, simply pay MSRP!

Let me tell you something; do you honestly think that you know more about buying cars than the salesperson? You may buy a car once every 4 to 5 years, and you are most likely dealing with a guy that perhaps sells a minimum of 10 cars per month, who's more experienced?
IMO, build some profit for the guy and be happy.

:rolleyes: Just wow, I'm sure you're just swamped with members from RFD buying cars from you....I mean I think you have convinced MANY of us to buy over MSRP just for your expertise......really. ;)


OP this member describes APA nicely : http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/9703857-post4/

[CaptSmethwick]

You're late to the party I'm afraid. Prices have firmed up. There was a window of opportunity from about Feb-September on most makes. The rebates have gotten progressively worse with each passing month. Inventory has stabilized and the big rebates are mostly on 2009's if you can find any. Rebates on 2010s are tiny. Even Hyundai has stopped selling Accents at $9995. I picked up a 2010 Vibe 1SA for $16350 OTD in early August. Same car today is around $19,000 OTD.

As for the OP, +1 on the APA report. Save yourself the hassle. You will not do better on your own. Spend the $75, get the report, take it to a dealer and get them to better it, or toss in a few extras.

Absolutely.

I've spoken with a few Caddy/Chev dealers and the '10 Equinox is flying out of the showrooms. Last month, GM sold 8,000 Equinoxes - or almost three times what they sold in October '08. And all of that is at the retail level and inventory levels are low - way less than 60 days.

Seriously, the OP will need a generous dose of good luck to find a dealer that is going to sell a '10 Equinox for less than invoice minus rebates + admin fee +$1000 margin - even if you have an APA report. Heck, good dealerships are getting close to those margins on Aveos - why would they sell a (relatively) hot vehicle for less?

If you've been paying attention to GM's recovery plan, they are reducing production and the number of dealerships to increase the per-vehicle margin at the dealership level in order that they are able to afford the quality of personnel and service they need to be competitive. Like it or not (and most of us don't), that means that they're going to be stickier on the price from now on - except where the product or economy aren't hot...

[arm2000]

new 2010 equinox is totally differnet from the years previous...

they are getting great reviews from everyone
Well, not from everyone. For example CR review is good indeed but not that great. Also, all of the better ranked cars have the same price as Equinox, at least in USA.

[CatDog]

T-Man's Chrysler thread has been interesting in terms of watching the trends in rebates/incentives being offerred, and they certainly have diminished. if only I wanted a Chrysler
I'm more interested in Audi, and they wont even give you a cup of coffee with one of their cars

If you've got any interest in Mercedes I'd be happy to give you more than a cup of coffee :).

[Anonymouse]

I don't get it, if you hate doing this, simply pay MSRP!

Let me tell you something; do you honestly think that you know more about buying cars than the salesperson? You may buy a car once every 4 to 5 years, and you are most likely dealing with a guy that perhaps sells a minimum of 10 cars per month, who's more experienced?
IMO, build some profit for the guy and be happy.

What I object to is that the dealers don't do much to earn their money on a new car. They warehouse cars for a while in the local market, but perform no other economic function that's worth paying for.

Everybody is researching cars on the Internet these days, and my experience with salesmen is that I know more about the cars than they do. For example, one BMW salesman tried to convince me that a car I knew to be naturally aspirated had a turbo, and one VW salesman didn't know what a "Mark VI" GTI was.

[z24driver1986]

GM made a winner! The '10 Equinox is comfortable, not bad price, stylish, and fuel efficient. It's still an SUV but has great fuel economy. Try a different dealer and maybe you might succeed. I have a feeling though that they won't budge on prices due to low supply.

[corrupt123]

What I object to is that the dealers don't do much to earn their money on a new car. They warehouse cars for a while in the local market, but perform no other economic function that's worth paying for.

Everybody is researching cars on the Internet these days, and my experience with salesmen is that I know more about the cars than they do. For example, one BMW salesman tried to convince me that a car I knew to be naturally aspirated had a turbo, and one VW salesman didn't know what a "Mark VI" GTI was.

Thats because you care more about cars then them. I dread the day I walk into a dealership (new or used) and start asking questions about structural components of the car, or computer systems design or even software architecture. As someone who can and will do most of the maintenance and repairs on the vehicle myself, I want to know what kind of tools I'll need and how difficult diagnostics will be. But the only people who could answer my questions will be the guys in the shop, and even then probably only a few of them will know that without the repair manual.

[scouzi]

Why would you pay MSRP? I personally consider it an "idiot tax." You can pay organization like APA to save you at least a grand. Even if they didn't exist, it still is an idiot tax...go to all the dealers nearby and fight/argue until they give you a discount. Just consider it an insult when they ask you to pay MSRP, that should help you get into the right train of though. Unless the car is in very limited production, there is no reason not to get below MSRP.

You can thank the Government for bailing them out. Now you have to pay more for their cars and pay a subsidy from your income taxes. That is why I will never buy a Chrysler or GM ever again.

[ottofly]

You can thank the Government for bailing them out. Now you have to pay more for their cars and pay a subsidy from your income taxes. That is why I will never buy a Chrysler or GM ever again.


Gee, I hope they can survive without your one whole unit. :rolleyes: Boycotts have proven to be totally ineffective. Heck, even Tylenol is still around despite the deaths 10 people. The public want heads to roll and grab the pitchfork for, oh, about an hour then all is forgotten. lol.

I'm willing to bet your bitterness will be healed with time, or some new GM, Chrysler product in the near future. Besides, does Honda or Toyota make a Corvete, Viper, CTS-V?

[BradT]

With the bailout, I think you already own a piece of GM and Chrysler.

You can thank the Government for bailing them out. Now you have to pay more for their cars and pay a subsidy from your income taxes. That is why I will never buy a Chrysler or GM ever again.

[Jungle]

With the bailout, I think you already own a piece of GM and Chrysler.


LOL good point. Now I can say to the dealer I'm intitled to a deal!

In all seriousness, I am going to call the APA tomorrow. If they have deals with the Equinox, I will purchase a report. For the gas, time it will take to visit 2-3 dealers with a car cost canada report, I might as well pay the $65 and save the stress.

[scouzi]

You can thank the Government for bailing them out. Now you have to pay more for their cars and pay a subsidy from your income taxes. That is why I will never buy a Chrysler or GM ever again.

I'm not bitter. I didn`t like GM or Chrysler before bailouts. But now - I'm giving them money every year. I will not give them a cent more or encourage them. With the Government`s help, they will keep on building poorly designed and ugly cars. Why would they innovate when the government is always there to feed them money.

I'm a capitalist - and failure should be an option.

[ottofly]

I'm not bitter. I didn`t like GM or Chrysler before bailouts. But now - I'm giving them money every year. I will not give them a cent more or encourage them. With the Government`s help, they will keep on building poorly designed and ugly cars. Why would they innovate when the government is always there to feed them money.

I'm a capitalist - and failure should be an option.

I'm also a capitalist, and failure should be an option, only if the failures don't result in a mass depression. I don't understand why some people would prefer to see blood on the streets rather then government step in. Why do I pay taxes for? So my government can stand by and watch the financial system implode taking industry and the mass public with it? Will you rest better if everyone drove a Japanese and German import?

Perhaps you should stop using the word "bailout" and just call it a loan, which is what it really is. The government, or as you like to say, the taxpayer, will get every cent back with a sizeable return. A capitalist should easliy understand this.

[ottofly]

Just saw this in today's Globe. Sales of the Equinox have doubled from last year and an expansion is underway at CAMI.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/gm-to-spend-100-million-on-retooling-ontario-plant/article1355813/

[BartBandy]

LOL good point. Now I can say to the dealer I'm intitled to a deal!

In all seriousness, I am going to call the APA tomorrow. If they have deals with the Equinox, I will purchase a report. For the gas, time it will take to visit 2-3 dealers with a car cost canada report, I might as well pay the $65 and save the stress.

Put simply, that`s your best bet. If you see my sig, I`m a huge proponent of the APA.

Negotiating with dealerships, even when you know what you are doing, is a hassle. The last car I bought, I got up to walk out. Twice. Evetually, they agreed to my original offer. Walking out the door is the only leverage the buyer has. In the sales office, the salesman tries to control everything. It`s a game. If you stand up and start walking out, you limit the amount of time he has, so he`ll budge on price if it`s an option. Until then, he`ll play you in any number of other ways first.

In some ways, I like buying cars now. I know enough about the game that I can mess with their heads, instead of them messing with mine. But for 95% of people, the APA is the way to go.

And yes, there are some honest car salesmen out there, and if you know your stuff and your numbers going in, they are easy to spot. If you don`t, it`s hard to tell.