UNETHICAL: FS & BB - "out of stock" if you don't buy WARRANTY OR SERVICE! BS!

[m4gician]

Hey guys,

I wanted to share a common practice I've seen (as per my role with the company that I work for) that I've noticed at the retail level in tech stores; specifically Best Buy and Future Shop.

Many of the items that are sold in store are sold with very low margins or at or below cost. The managers or staff will (YMMV) choose not to sell you an item that is rare, or a deal IF:

- you are not buying the BS extended warranty
- accessories
- Some BS stupid tax service (recovery disks, set-up, etc.).

I understand that the stores make money on these attachments as most of them are 1000% gross margin and 1000% pure profit. But to NOT sell a product that a customer wants and is in stock, is unethical. Most of the time, unless you have inside knowledge or someone on the inside, you'd never know.

I swear, that's horrible. Managers at these stores will do whatever it takes to "not get fired" and "get their bonuses".

Anyways, I'm done venting, but everytime I see this practice, it really grinds my gears.

What do you guys think?

[7jaii]

I see 3 sides: Corporate requires growth/profits, Managers have to meet targets, Customers don't want to pay full price.

Corporate is all about earnings and growth. They research and order "Hot, next things" to lure customers. Their posted policy protects them & the consumers - they will not break the law (especially in USA) due to fear of Class-Action suits.

Managers (General Managers) worry about a whole stack of problems. Their weakness is relying on supervisors or long-term staff's opinions instead of sticking to corporate policy. The worst offender was Staples managers during 150% PM days - they would hide, lie, fight and kick out customers. But they missed the whole purpose of the PM policy which was to gauge regional and national competitor prices as Staples retooled and entered selling technology full-time. Jack @ss managers wasted so much RFD time that RFD followed up with corporate and forced managers to phone back and apologize for shady tactics.

Customers have to learn store policy - it's as simple as that. You hold the money so focus on your goal: buying your item hassle-free. If the store refuses or packs on excess fees or refuses coupons (and you're not cheating!) then take down names & numbers and contact corporate. At the very least you'll earn a discount coupon toward future purchases when corporate discover their mistake.

--> all 3 should be happy customers have money to spend. Retailers should pay attention and improve customer experience. If buyers believe they're being snowballed with excess & unneeded fees & warranties then they'll walk.

--> Customers need to stand firm and request an explanation or rain check. Bring documentation with you when you shop (Flyers, Printouts, Store policy, Receipts)

[psyko514]

Do you have proof?

[GVRtrader]

Often time you can buy the product with the warranty and then return the warranty. If they force the warranty on you but don't put "bundle" on it, its their fault (and note they never lower the warranty price as thats the money maker, they do sometime put bundle tho). There's nothing they can do about returning a non-bundle warranty by itself. Of course i still prefer to buy anything big @ Visions/Costco (prefer Costco if they have it) due to 60/90 day PM policy as well as much better post sale customer service.

[Jon Lai]

Come on OP, I was expecting a 500 word story, not some general BS.

[Golem]

Requiring/forcing someone to buy one thing or service to get something else is called tied selling which is illegal according to the federal Competition Act. If you have evidence of that, contact the Competition Bureau: http://www.cb-bc.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/eng/h_00148.html

[AcidBomber]

Why dont you tell them you will buy the warranty together with the product, and then change your mind once you see the product in their hands?

and if they throw the 'we wont sell you without warranty' bs then start shat and create a big scene. :evil:

[ricsad]

This happened to me before when buying a Nintendo DS. I think what happened was you misheard what the salesperson said.

He might of said something like, "I don't want to sell it to you if you're not going to buy warranty". That does not mean that he is refusing to, he is just telling you he doesn't want to. That is what happened to me and I just told him again I wanted to buy it without warranty and he said okay.

[inferno_gn]

Hi there,

Now that's funny, I love your idea. :) I do want to point out they can't really refuse to sell the item unless it is stated that you required to by the "warranty".

They post the price at like 10$ and it's on sale in the flyers. You go to the store and want to buy it, but they say they won't sell you one unless you purchase a warranty, now that's illegal. FS did that during boxing day fiasco with the laptop, if you remember and they got alot of crap after it.

Ju Leon...

Why dont you tell them you will buy the warranty together with the product, and then change your mind once you see the product in their hands?

and if they throw the 'we wont sell you without warranty' bs then start shat and create a big scene. :evil:

[Red Smart]

The managers or staff will (YMMV) choose not to sell you an item that is rare, or a deal IF:

Okay forgive me for asking, but what does YMMV mean? I thought it stood for "your milage may very", but I am clearly wrong as people seem to use this phrase all the time.

Thanks,

Red

[zzz3]

Hey guys,

I wanted to share a common practice I've seen (as per my role with the company that I work for) that I've noticed at the retail level in tech stores; specifically Best Buy and Future Shop.

Many of the items that are sold in store are sold with very low margins or at or below cost. The managers or staff will (YMMV) choose not to sell you an item that is rare, or a deal IF:

- you are not buying the BS extended warranty
- accessories
- Some BS stupid tax service (recovery disks, set-up, etc.).

I understand that the stores make money on these attachments as most of them are 1000% gross margin and 1000% pure profit. But to NOT sell a product that a customer wants and is in stock, is unethical. Most of the time, unless you have inside knowledge or someone on the inside, you'd never know.

I swear, that's horrible. Managers at these stores will do whatever it takes to "not get fired" and "get their bonuses".

Anyways, I'm done venting, but everytime I see this practice, it really grinds my gears.

What do you guys think?

Do you have proof?

Come on OP, I was expecting a 500 word story, not some general BS.

its a rare occurrence but i can tell you guys that it does occur from time to time. Although never with the knowledge of the sales manager in most cases, let alone the store manager. Usually it occurred mainly because the sales person did not want to take a hit on their numbers. Your numbers are comprised of things like psp, gross margin, services (like installation), and you are ranked based on these. Other times, if its a hot product in short supply, the sales person will tell you its out of stock so they can hopefully get another customer who will buy the warranty and any extras. The macbook air was a good example of this when it first came out, people were told it was not in stock so that it could be saved for a sale in which good numbers could be guaranteed (as well as a good commission). Lastly, when sales managers are involved, its usually to avoid pm ing some crazy price well below cost, the $199 z5500 from dell is a good example, were stock was hidden in order to avoid pms.

[punisher101]

This does happen. FS Salesdrones are brainwashed to sell extras and behave deceptively to make larger commissions. And managers look the other, oh perish the thought! And for competition bureau to handle out charges to FS salesdrones for deceiving customers is like passing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500.

Here is an example, I found a TV at a competitors shop for less then one at FS and the FS drone was willing to match the price but wanted me to by all this other crap that I did'nt need which would effectively make the entire cost way more then I was initially willing to pay. I turned my heel and walked out.

I think the reason these aholes try this crap with customers is because they've probably duped a lot of customers with this bs.

[Piro21]

This is why I buy all my electronics from Costco (well, and the internet, but Costco when I go to a store). The guys there don't have to sell you extended warranty garbage and generally too laid back to bother you much while you're looking. I love it.

[Jucius Maximus]

OP, if you don't like it, then don't buy those products and vote with your dollars. Go to a better store.

[GTA: YYC]

This happened to me before when buying a Nintendo DS. I think what happened was you misheard what the salesperson said.

He might of said something like, "I don't want to sell it to you if you're not going to buy warranty". That does not mean that he is refusing to, he is just telling you he doesn't want to. That is what happened to me and I just told him again I wanted to buy it without warranty and he said okay.

I have been flat out refused at both Futureshop and Best Buy if I didn't buy the service plan. At one location a manager backed up the salesman on it.

[w4rrior]

when i worked for BB i saw this happen quite a few times, especially on weekly featured sale items. sometimes they are actually oos, but when they just come in off the truck or an associate sold a few of these products w/o any attachments, the associate just says its oos or to come back tomorrow. like some1 mentioned before, its because they dont want their numbers (PSP%, gross margin, etc) to suffer.

[lhsonic]

I have been flat out refused at both Futureshop and Best Buy if I didn't buy the service plan. At one location a manager backed up the salesman on it.

Hi,

I have quite a bit of inside experience with these two companies, and honestly, when I worked in the Coquitlam locations, have never heard any issues from customers at these stores. The management team at these two stores go above and beyond (especially when I compare how I personally see the day-to-day to the comments I have read on this forum).

Before I worked there, the Coquitlam FS let me price match my education store and gave me a Macbook way below cost and I was not forced, but definitely asked a few times to buy PSP.

Yes, there's very little margin on the electronics in the store and no/negative margin on gaming consoles, games, and computers. But in no way, should FS/BB employees be refusing a sale. In a lot of cases, many managers will want to take the revenue even if their margins take a slight hit. A very common scenario is offering no discount if you just want to take the electronic with no accessories, warranty, services, etc. You have to understand that in many cases, we would rather you walk away than take a bare sale (though we will finish it if you really want it dry). However, there is significant revenue generated in the above mentioned items and allow wiggle room to budge prices. It's fair in my books and a win-win for both parties.

However, if you really do feel you've been mistreated (and not just harassed to buy the warranty at FS because hey, it's a commissioned environment, should be expected), I advise filling in that survey that is shown on your receipt after each purchase. It lets upper management know how each store is doing and lets store management know what areas to improve on. Obviously someone up there worries about customer satisfaction or else that survey (organized by a third-party) would not be there.

Often time you can buy the product with the warranty and then return the warranty. If they force the warranty on you but don't put "bundle" on it, its their fault (and note they never lower the warranty price as thats the money maker, they do sometime put bundle tho). There's nothing they can do about returning a non-bundle warranty by itself. Of course i still prefer to buy anything big @ Visions/Costco (prefer Costco if they have it) due to 60/90 day PM policy as well as much better post sale customer service.

You're horrible. Yes, you're more than welcome to return the warranty. A lot of times I don't bother writing "package price" because I trust that I've built SOME sort of relationship with my customers that they don't have to lie to get a fat discount on whatever they're buying. And no, you can't touch the price of the warranty, so it does go off the electronics.

and LOL. Visions. Do you know how many people come to me and say "Yeah, so I'll be honest, I just went to Visions and FS, and I HATED it, so I got out of there as quickly as I could and if you give me a decent price, I'll just take the stuff from you."
Nothing against Costco. But you're probably smarter than regular joe customers (no offense) to shop there because lots of people at FS and BB actually ask a lot of "simple" questions. Regular joes still prefer FS/BB.

[teknoluv]

OP, if you don't like it, then don't buy those products and vote with your dollars. Go to a better store.
Not if that (OOS if not buying warranty) is actually NOT a corporate policy but just some shady practice at the local level.

My 10 years plus experience with Future Shop (and Best Buy when they later chime in) is that, most wrongdoings are results of individual bad apples. It could be just a couple of sales persons in that particular location. Worse scenarios may involve supervisors or managers, who you could guess (as mentioned by another poster here) decide to push their edges for sales. The good thing is, most store managers are smart enough to strike a balance (if you are insistent enough and finally get a hold of him); but keep in mind that those lousy bad apples are making money for the store after all, so they are still kind of "sheltered".

I would strongly recommend filing FORMAL complaints with specific details like date and name(s) when you feel you're really mistreated. Trust me, it HURTS when there are enough serious (written) complaints hit on one single point, whether it is a specific location or a manager.

[GTA: YYC]

Hi,

I have quite a bit of inside experience with these two companies, and honestly, when I worked in the Coquitlam locations, have never heard any issues from customers at these stores. The management team at these two stores go above and beyond (especially when I compare how I personally see the day-to-day to the comments I have read on this forum).

Before I worked there, the Coquitlam FS let me price match my education store and gave me a Macbook way below cost and I was not forced, but definitely asked a few times to buy PSP.

Yes, there's very little margin on the electronics in the store and no/negative margin on gaming consoles, games, and computers. But in no way, should FS/BB employees be refusing a sale. In a lot of cases, many managers will want to take the revenue even if their margins take a slight hit. A very common scenario is offering no discount if you just want to take the electronic with no accessories, warranty, services, etc. You have to understand that in many cases, we would rather you walk away than take a bare sale (though we will finish it if you really want it dry). However, there is significant revenue generated in the above mentioned items and allow wiggle room to budge prices. It's fair in my books and a win-win for both parties.

However, if you really do feel you've been mistreated (and not just harassed to buy the warranty at FS because hey, it's a commissioned environment, should be expected), I advise filling in that survey that is shown on your receipt after each purchase. It lets upper management know how each store is doing and lets store management know what areas to improve on. Obviously someone up there worries about customer satisfaction or else that survey (organized by a third-party) would not be there.

It was a cell phone at Future Shop and a laptop at Best Buy - it was the Best Buy manager who refused the sale without the warranty. The bottom line is don't advertise something you aren't prepared to sell for the listed price.

[abc123]

So essentially, would you say that it is possible to just say that you'll buy the warranty and the other things, then once you buy and leave, drive to another store and return everything except for the item itself?

[eightyeight]

They post the price at like 10$ and it's on sale in the flyers. You go to the store and want to buy it, but they say they won't sell you one unless you purchase a warranty, now that's illegal. FS did that during boxing day fiasco with the laptop, if you remember and they got alot of crap after it.

It's not illegal. It's their store, they can do whatever they want with their prices, sales or policies.

I'm trying to wrap my mind about how wrong you are... Just picture someone calling the cops on a Future Shop manager who won't sell them a laptop?? :lol:

I can't express how boggled my mind is that someone cannot only think this is fact, but then proceed to post it as fact...

[monty613]

this goes on all the time, but it's more a result of individual store employees and managers. which consequently, are the product of FS/BB compensation practices that reward heavily on warranty sales and gross margin.

wasn't it just last year when many FS locations preloaded some crap software on Toshiba laptops that were a doorcrasher on Boxing Day? this essentially forced customers to pay the extra $50-$100 for the software, or walk.

[teknoluv]

It's not illegal. It's their store, they can do whatever they want with their prices, sales or policies.

I'm trying to wrap my mind about how wrong you are... Just picture someone calling the cops on a Future Shop manager who won't sell them a laptop?? :lol:

I can't express how boggled my mind is that someone cannot only think this is fact, but then proceed to post it as fact...
I agree with your last sentence (BOLD), except that it actually describes the rest of your post.

[ah ling]

Someone did call the cops once because he was refused of a return. And he was smart enough to call the 905 number instead of 911...

Anyways, I never seen the refusal of sale because of the 'no psp/accessory' situation in my store. But I have seen similar and worse situations in other stores especially if you travel further south.

I cannot give specific solution to this, but if this happens in my store simply go to the customer service desk to ask for assistance. Or call the 1800 number/email to customer service giving out all the specific details with names. Within a week you would get a response, often times HQ request the store to contact the customer directly to resolve the issue.

One thing I have to stress, though, would be the attitude of the customer. Often times they do not treat staff with any respect at all, from raising of voice to verbal abuse. Those would not be tolerated. Always treat others like how you would be treated.

Similar situation goes on for price matching, if customer is being reasonable and understandable, most of the time there is no problem to it. On the other hand, if the customer is being such a hard person to deal with, the staffs have more than a hand full of legit reasons to refuse (not the 'out of stock' type of b.s.).

At the end of the day, if you are refused, no need to cause a scene. And the staffs can't care less if you decide never to step foot in their store again. Because that is just one less trouble customer to deal with.

[pompoco]

It's not illegal. It's their store, they can do whatever they want with their prices, sales or policies.

I'm trying to wrap my mind about how wrong you are... Just picture someone calling the cops on a Future Shop manager who won't sell them a laptop?? :lol:

I can't express how boggled my mind is that someone cannot only think this is fact, but then proceed to post it as fact...

You really have no idea about the competition act or consumer protection laws in canada right?

So you are one of the many sheep who let these shady practices continue...
no wonder that people never get any decent prices on cell, tv, and internet if they continue to buy anyways.....
Reminds me of the popeyes one day special in the us they had (8pc for $4.99
) and one in Minneapolis didn't participate, but peaople bought anyways (9pc. for $9.99).... Youtube Videoclip about that (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eiG5FCYJ8k&feature=related)

[help_questions]

Honestly, save all your shopping for the US.
The prices are better, and you consumerism is much more valued there.

In Canada, we always get gouged, and this post is an example of Canadian companies/employees trying to give Canadian customers the shaft - again.

Buy American, save money and have more.
Or Buy Canadian, spend more and have less.
The choice is yours.

[CanadianMike]

due to this sort of behaviour from employees at FS/BB....i often avoid discussing anything about the warranty until they actually get the physical product, THEN i turn it down.

sometimes they seem pretty annoyed that im not purchasing the warranty...but its harder to claim its OOS if the product is already out in the open.

[Winkle]

Heh, never had this happen and I think that's rather extreme. I've had FS sales folks get really pushy when it comes to trying to sell me a warranty/PSP/extras on something I'm trying to buy (generally not @ BB). I try to be polite when refusing but once or twice I did have to resort to threatening to walk out or finding another sales person for them to back off. I've never had anyone flat out refuse to sell me something unless I purchase a warranty/PSP/extras.

[TCWeasel]

I've never experienced this, though I rarely buy from those stores and if I do, it's DVD or likewise. They've never tried to force me to buy a warranty on a DVD.

Last purchase I made from BestBuy was my TV, and while mention was made of the warranty it was never made an issue.

If you go in and ask for an item, I've had them either say yes or no, never asked whether I was going to be buying a warranty with it. I mean, wouldn't the conversation go something like.

Buyer: "Do you have <whatever> in stock?"

Sales Droid: "Depends. Will you be buying a warranty with it?"

At this point, I think your best response is "OK then, bye".

If they say "I'm not going to sell this without a warranty" your response should be "OK then, bye".

You're not forced to buy the product.

While the mom and pop (non-chain) stores may not be able to match the prices of Futureshop or Bestbuy, they're going to be better to deal with, probably more knowledgeable about the product and I highly doubt they'll refuse to sell (within reason). If FS and BB don't want your business, don't give it to them. Whatever the sell, you don't "NEED".

[antichrysler]

I was attempting to buy a TV at BB. It was single handedly the weirdest most messed up experience of my life.

They offered me the TV with a large discount and then added warranty, an HDMI cable, and I forget what else.... it was some high margin accessory... might've been a wall mount. I agreed to the deal since the TV was being heavily discounted and I just had an urge to get a 50" Plasma. Then the salesman says "I have to go okay this with my manager first" so the manager comes out and raises the price of the deal. I insisted on paying the price I was presented. Then I said okay, that's fair, I'll just take off the warranty and I'm at the same amount. The manager said I was getting a hot deal because I was buying the warranty.

I attempted to remove the HDMI cable and what was possibly the wall mount and he got mad again. Then I told him to work out a deal on just the TV. I told him about the price I had received for just the TV and he said he couldn't sell it for that price. Then proceeded to try to sell it to me above sticker price.

I laughed in his face, walked out, and went and bought my TV at Visions.

When dealing with Futureshop and BB I typically make a point of calling in advance, stating I talked to a sales rep and I want whatever item, the warranty, and almost every accessory imaginable and request they set it aside for me. I haven't seen a time where they haven't. Then I go in, let them carry everything to the counter and make sure there's a line up behind me and refuse to buy the whole package except for the piece I actually want. If they argue with me I hold up the line and they get frustrated and let me just buy the item I wanted in the first place.

That's how I combat their warranty and OOS BS.

[angekfire]

I just intend to always tell them I'm considering a warranty, then when we get to the cash tell them I changed my mind. That way they can't pull something like stating they are OOS.

[Chr1s]

Just shop elsewhere.

Life is too short for their BS.

[Golem]

Here's what happened at a FS. I was there looking at the ipod Touch (for some reason, the Apple store was out of stock) when I overheard a sales person trying to convince a customer to buy the FS extended warranty. The sales person had the new ipod Touch in their hand. I told the customer that the FS warranty wasn't as good as Apple's and that he could buy the Apple warranty separately, after buying the ipod Touch at FS. The salesman and I and the customer got into a discussion about the differences between the FS and Apple warranties. The salesman admitted that Apple's warranty is better and did sell the ipod to the customer without the FS extended warranty. That sales person instilled me with confidence so whenever I am at that store I buy with that sales person's help.

[lhsonic]

Here's what happened at a FS. I was there looking at the ipod Touch (for some reason, the Apple store was out of stock) when I overheard a sales person trying to convince a customer to buy the FS extended warranty. The sales person had the new ipod Touch in their hand. I told the customer that the FS warranty wasn't as good as Apple's and that he could buy the Apple warranty separately, after buying the ipod Touch at FS. The salesman and I and the customer got into a discussion about the differences between the FS and Apple warranties. The salesman admitted that Apple's warranty is better and did sell the ipod to the customer without the FS extended warranty. That sales person instilled me with confidence so whenever I am at that store I buy with that sales person's help.

FS? That's surprising, considering that warranty is worth quite a bit of commission dollars.

But yeah.. these OSS stories I've never heard of in the stores I've been in.. and me, personally, when I person asks for something, the first thing they asked is, "do you have ____ in stock?" and my first response is to go on the computer to check and tell them yes or no. It's when I start working out bundles and bundle pricing or when the customer asks if I can give a better price that I tell them about the warranties and such.

[Golem]

Yes, FS at Y&D in Toronto. The sales person probably thought that trying to convince the other customer that the FS warranty is better than Apple's was futile because I am very knowledgeable about both warranties and he would rather have a sale than lose it because of the impression that he is more interested in the warranty sale than the customer's welfare. That customer bought the ipod Touch without the FS warranty but has probably also gone back to that FS an bought other "stuff" because of the honesty of that sales person.

[richardvoyageur]

I avoid FS as much as possible now and buy almost everything on Dell. I don't want to be hassled on PM and PSP, etc.

Anytime I buy something in store now, I just look them directly in the eye and say "I'll take this TV and I don't want the warranty". It almost always works and they don't even bother with a retort. Obviously it helps to know exactly what you want to buy when you go in, they know you're not a mark.

You know the reason I really will never buy a PSP? The fervor in which they try to SELL it to you proves to me that it can't be good for me. Oh, and Consumer Reports saying they are garbage doesn't help them either :)

[goflamesgo]

I posted this thread about Office Depot and Staples back in June.

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/no-extended-warranty-no-laptop-hiding-stock-office-depot-other-stores-716725/

Just yesterday, someone wouldn't even go into check for a laptop in the back room if I didn't agree to the extended service plan. So yes, it does happen quite a number of times in retail.

[ly8606]

haha, don't worry, as what the salesman told me, PSP is returnable in 30 days.

If u really want that thing on sale. Try buying with PSP first. As soon as the item arrived, returned the PSP back.

I see no excuse why PSP cannot be returned based on FS and BB's policy. At least the services is not "package opened", "damaged", or even "used" ( first 14 days - 30 days are absolutely covered by store warranty).

Plus, Cx service ppl does not receive commission, making them easy to do the return.

[Eyeman]

Why dont you tell them you will buy the warranty together with the product, and then change your mind once you see the product in their hands?

and if they throw the 'we wont sell you without warranty' bs then start shat and create a big scene. :evil:

A good related strategy occurs with price matching. Stores sometimes will claim OOS if you ask for a price match right up front. Always make sure that you have the product in your hand and THEN ask for the PM.