Another electric use thread with rant

[hagbard]

I'm getting weird electric use jumps every couple months, and we can't figure out what's going on. We have gas heat and gas water tank. Here's how it looks:

Billing month

August - 793 kWh
Sept - 1773 kWh
Oct - 732 kWh
Nov - 1237 kWh

Its up and down. I've started to photograph our meter daily so I can actually see if they're reading it right. The next bill, I'll post the pics from where they said they read the meter (might have to be the one after that since I just started doing it).

Now the rant. We're charged for electrical usage at 5.7 cents, then at 6.6 cents. Obviously they charge more once you pass a certain usage. Then they add on a delivery charge that's as much as our enter amount for 5.7c usage ($34.36). Then a Regulatory Charge of $8. Not happy with that, they add on a Debt Retirement Charge of another $8. When we lived in BC, we'd get a bill stating our electrical usage, fee of about half of what is charged here (2.3 cents as a recall) and that's it. With a 2700sf house, and electric heating, we used to pay about $250 every two months. What a burn Ontario hydro is. Its actually pretty typical of utilities in Ontario, they're way more than in BC (including Insurance). Bright side is we make more money here. :D

[Maymybonneliveforever]

I guess it's all about the cost of living....

Back to the topic at hand, every month on your bill it should state when the meter was read and it's readings. Even if you miss a month it should still average out in the readings, if you know what I mean. Your high months are excessively high, therefore there maybe a chance that they're not reading your meter every single month. As you suggested keep track of your own meter and determine whether your numbers match with theres. On my bill the readings are usually within 2 days or so. Let us know how you make out.....oh and I'll assume you haven't signed a contract with let's say Direct Energy.

[hagbard]

I guess it's all about the cost of living....

Back to the topic at hand, every month on your bill it should state when the meter was read and it's readings. Even if you miss a month it should still average out in the readings, if you know what I mean. Your high months are excessively high, therefore there maybe a chance that they're not reading your meter every single month. As you suggested keep track of your own meter and determine whether your numbers match with theres. On my bill the readings are usually within 2 days or so. Let us know how you make out.....oh and I'll assume you haven't signed a contract with let's say Direct Energy.

No, actually, the "Oct" bill was for 33 days, the "Nov" bill was for 23 days. They're all dated with readings from "previous" to "present". Something is very fishy. Not only that, we switched to CF lights throughout the house earlier in the mount, I was expecting a decrease! Something else I should mention, we don't own a TV, stereo either. Just a laptop and a desktop, use lights until 9pm in areas where we are. And just the usual appliances other than that. The only thing new this month as a ghetto blaster.

[Mr Nobody]

Double check that every other month isn't a reading but an estimate. Our hydro is billed every other month so we get actual readings every time but your power company may be different since you're paying monthly (Our gas is billed monthly and every other month is an estimate).

We don't use the oven, used to use the dryer the first few years but not anymore, use the dishwasher daily, washer every couple of days, and my computer (350W PSU) is on 24/7 and we average 19kwh/day (600kwh/month) over 7 years of record keeping (I graph my usage). Only the hottest summers (02 and 05) did we do 33kwh/day (1100kwh/month) (26C on the thermostat). Otherwise non-ac months are about 350kwh (13kwh/day). Our non-ac month electricity charge is about $50 which I think is dirt cheap.

[hagbard]

Double check that every other month isn't a reading but an estimate. Our hydro is billed every other month so we get actual readings every time but your power company may be different since you're paying monthly (Our gas is billed monthly and every other month is an estimate).



Well, they're giving us exact amounts and exact dates. I'm wondering if they're misreading the meter. Hence, I'll post a pic of the meter for the day they say their read it and maybe someone here can tell me if its accurate.

[Mr Nobody]

No, actually, the "Oct" bill was for 33 days, the "Nov" bill was for 23 days. They're all dated with readings from "previous" to "present". Something is very fishy. Not only that, we switched to CF lights throughout the house earlier in the mount, I was expecting a decrease! Something else I should mention, we don't own a TV, stereo either. Just a laptop and a desktop, use lights until 9pm in areas where we are. And just the usual appliances other than that. The only thing new this month as a ghetto blaster.

Don't get me started on CFLs. I think they're a total waste of money, they can't be used outdoors in the cold, they can't be used in the washroom where there's moisture, and the regular ones are not dimmable.

We have maybe 3 lightbulbs on at any one time for the 6 hours of darkness per day. 60Wx3x6hours = 1080Wh = 1kwh/day = 30kwh/month = $1.50/month. CFL: 60/13 = 5. $1.50/5 = $0.30/month. So you save $1.20/month. AND THOSE CFLs don't last 7 years like they say they do! Mine keep burning out in like 2-3 years.

[Mr Nobody]

Well, they're giving us exact amounts and exact dates. I'm wondering if they're misreading the meter. Hence, I'll post a pic of the meter for the day they say their read it and maybe someone here can tell me if its accurate.

Your bill should show previous and current numbers (and they subtract to get the usage), so you can see on the meter if they're reading it wrong because the meter will have a number that's lower than what they are claiming on the bill. Will be easy to tell if you are taking periodic photos of your meter.

But I can't see that happening a lot, because when they read it correctly, you will have a very low usage month.

Something definitely isn't right. Do you have a shady neighbour who's tapping into your line? :(

[Tiberius]

the most likely culprit is estimated billing... it costs more to have a real read done every month, so they estimate some billing periods, and then finally take a real reading and adjust everything.

Look for any sign that some months are 'estimated' and some are real readings...

You will figure this out over a few months anyway if you take daily pictures of your meter (you would get a bill that is out of sync with the real reading on that date - but when a "real" reading bill comes in, it will be in sync with your picture, etc.)

Or... just call the utility and ask if they take a real reading EVERY bill.

[Wiseman]

Don't get me started on CFLs. I think they're a total waste of money, they can't be used outdoors in the cold, they can't be used in the washroom where there's moisture, and the regular ones are not dimmable.

We have maybe 3 lightbulbs on at any one time for the 6 hours of darkness per day. 60Wx3x6hours = 1080Wh = 1kwh/day = 30kwh/month = $1.50/month. CFL: 60/13 = 5. $1.50/5 = $0.30/month. So you save $1.20/month. AND THOSE CFLs don't last 7 years like they say they do! Mine keep burning out in like 2-3 years.

Do you have wiring issues? I've had CFL's in my house since when I bought it 6 1/2 years ago, and I've had 3 maybe 4 bulbs die (cheap purlite brand from CT and one freebie sunbeam). I counted and I have 29 of them installed, including bathrooms and outside lights. The only places I don't use them are the hallway fixtures.

I've never done any power consumption comparisons, but they've done their part with respect to longevity.

[gman]

I'm getting weird electric use jumps every couple months, and we can't figure out what's going on. We have gas heat and gas water tank. Here's how it looks:

Billing month

August - 793 kWh
Sept - 1773 kWh
Oct - 732 kWh
Nov - 1237 kWh

Its up and down. I've started to photograph our meter daily so I can actually see if they're reading it right. The next bill, I'll post the pics from where they said they read the meter (might have to be the one after that since I just started doing it).

Now the rant. We're charged for electrical usage at 5.7 cents, then at 6.6 cents. Obviously they charge more once you pass a certain usage. Then they add on a delivery charge that's as much as our enter amount for 5.7c usage ($34.36). Then a Regulatory Charge of $8. Not happy with that, they add on a Debt Retirement Charge of another $8. When we lived in BC, we'd get a bill stating our electrical usage, fee of about half of what is charged here (2.3 cents as a recall) and that's it. With a 2700sf house, and electric heating, we used to pay about $250 every two months. What a burn Ontario hydro is. Its actually pretty typical of utilities in Ontario, they're way more than in BC (including Insurance). Bright side is we make more money here. :D

For my billing, one month is estimate and then next month is reading. They never read my meter 2 months in a row.

[Mr Nobody]

Do you have wiring issues? I've had CFL's in my house since when I bought it 6 1/2 years ago, and I've had 3 maybe 4 bulbs die (cheap purlite brand from CT and one freebie sunbeam). I counted and I have 29 of them installed, including bathrooms and outside lights. The only places I don't use them are the hallway fixtures.

No wiring issues I'm aware of. For certain I can say the bulbs that died were in the washroom (guilty! I can see the rust too). I cannot recall SPECIFICALLY others that have died, but I have some that have definitely dimmed considerably.

For my billing, one month is estimate and then next month is reading. They never read my meter 2 months in a row.

Markham: That's true for gas (Enbridge) (alternating real and estimates) which is billed monthly but not hydro (electricity/water) (PowerStream) (always real readings) which is billed every 2 months.

[hagbard]

the most likely culprit is estimated billing... it costs more to have a real read done every month, so they estimate some billing periods, and then finally take a real reading and adjust everything.

Look for any sign that some months are 'estimated' and some are real readings...

You will figure this out over a few months anyway if you take daily pictures of your meter (you would get a bill that is out of sync with the real reading on that date - but when a "real" reading bill comes in, it will be in sync with your picture, etc.)

Or... just call the utility and ask if they take a real reading EVERY bill.

Do they estimate the power usage with real numbers? It says previous bill reading was at 85891 and this one 87037. Under Usage it says Base 1146 and Billed 1237 (so, they screw us again).



Something definitely isn't right. Do you have a shady neighbour who's tapping into your line? :(

How would they do that? Anything I should look for?

[mbg]

Don't get me started on CFLs. I think they're a total waste of money, they can't be used outdoors in the cold, they can't be used in the washroom where there's moisture, and the regular ones are not dimmable.

On top of that, they give off an ugly light and the prats that are using them for outdoor lighting (i.e. porch light, post light) make the street look ugly, too!

I have started stockpiling incandescents for when the ban is in place.

[ukgirl]

Just as an aside - regarding BC being cheaper.. this article was recently in Macleans and it seems BC and QC are more heavily subsidized for some utilities:
http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/10/08/one-colossal-waste/

Cracks aside, every day Montreal wastes the equivalent of Paris’s daily drinking water supply, and residents share part of the blame. Montrealers are billed for water through their property tax; by design, the system encourages waste. Residents don’t see a bill and no matter how often they fill the pool or water the lawn, their rate stays flat. No surprise, Montrealers use more than double what most other Canadian cities do.

In fairness, it’s not just Montreal. Vancouver still does not have household water meters, and has no plans to get them. There, residents pay a flat annual rate of $360 for water, about $30 a month, per household. British Columbians—routinely treated to gushing praise for their green taxes, green jobs, green buildings and green mayors—are the biggest pigs in the country when it comes to water, beating even Quebec

[speedyforme]

^ wow $30 a month??? That's expensive considering I pay $10 a month on my ACTUAL usage. Sometimes it is better to pay for what you use.

[hagbard]

Just as an aside - regarding BC being cheaper.. this article was recently in Macleans and it seems BC and QC are more heavily subsidized for some utilities:
http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/10/08/one-colossal-waste/

Cracks aside, every day Montreal wastes the equivalent of Paris’s daily drinking water supply, and residents share part of the blame. Montrealers are billed for water through their property tax; by design, the system encourages waste. Residents don’t see a bill and no matter how often they fill the pool or water the lawn, their rate stays flat. No surprise, Montrealers use more than double what most other Canadian cities do.

In fairness, it’s not just Montreal. Vancouver still does not have household water meters, and has no plans to get them. There, residents pay a flat annual rate of $360 for water, about $30 a month, per household. British Columbians—routinely treated to gushing praise for their green taxes, green jobs, green buildings and green mayors—are the biggest pigs in the country when it comes to water, beating even Quebec

Water is metered in Victoria. Paid over $200 one month (went nuts with the grass).

[mason]

I have CFLs in all my outdoor fixtures (for 3-4 years)... in all the bathrooms too. I have like 6 old style bulbs left.. which are for dimmable fixtures, so I'l grant you that.
I don't have tracking stats, but subjectively I haven't found they burn out anymore often than the old style bulbs


Don't get me started on CFLs. I think they're a total waste of money, they can't be used outdoors in the cold, they can't be used in the washroom where there's moisture, and the regular ones are not dimmable.

We have maybe 3 lightbulbs on at any one time for the 6 hours of darkness per day. 60Wx3x6hours = 1080Wh = 1kwh/day = 30kwh/month = $1.50/month. CFL: 60/13 = 5. $1.50/5 = $0.30/month. So you save $1.20/month. AND THOSE CFLs don't last 7 years like they say they do! Mine keep burning out in like 2-3 years.

[speedyforme]

Anyone can tap into your electricity. We did some study at work related to grow ops and the like and you'd be amazed at what people can do.

[Mr Nobody]

How would they do that? Anything I should look for?

I saw on a show once where a house was a grow-op and they had tapped into the neighbour's electricity. Can't recall exactly how it was done, but I'm guessing they must have had to dig the side yard to reach the buried cable to tap into it. Didn't really mean to imply this could be happening to you. Just putting out there something that is plausible (though remotely).

On top of that, they give off an ugly light and the prats that are using them for outdoor lighting (i.e. porch light, post light) make the street look ugly, too!

I have started stockpiling incandescents for when the ban is in place.

Thanks for letting me know I'm not the only one! :)

I have CFLs in all my outdoor fixtures (for 3-4 years)... in all the bathrooms too. I have like 6 old style bulbs left.. which are for dimmable fixtures, so I'l grant you that.
I don't have tracking stats, but subjectively I haven't found they burn out anymore often than the old style bulbs

Don't know what to say, its either my bathroom fan's not strong enough, or those Globe brand lights I have suck because they would burn out and I see rust where the glass tube meets the balast. :(

CFLs take a while to warm up and produce full light in the cold. Guess its not too much of a concern for outdoor lights that will be on for a long time, but very annoying as a garage light, even around 10C degrees.

[hagbard]

I saw on a show once where a house was a grow-op and they had tapped into the neighbour's electricity. Can't recall exactly how it was done, but I'm guessing they must have had to dig the side yard to reach the buried cable to tap into it. Didn't really mean to imply this could be happening to you. Just putting out there something that is plausible (though remotely).



We have overhead powerlines so that's out. They'd have to run an extension cord to an outside outlet. The neighbor on one side I think is highly unlikely to do this, the one on the other seems a bit odd so? But I did look and didn't see anything unusual. I think the hydro people must be doing an averaging thing. Still taking pics of the meter however.