Is it possible to be 1/3rd a race? (e.g. not a base of 2)

[b0rk]

My friend said he wrote a thesis proving that it's possible to be 1/3 or 1/6 of a race.. basically any fraction other than 1/2 or 1/4.

He told me some really complex biology stuff - but I don't get it. Can someone explain it to me in layman terms?

[haowong]

The mom had a 3-some with at least 1 man that has a different ethnicity than hers.

[mkerian]

Does your friend go to York? How lousy would your thesis be if it was just about is it possible to be 1/3 of a 'race'. What kind of complex biological stuff did he talk about? It's not really that hard to describe.

Not to mention you wouldn't be too bright if you described an ethnicity as a 'race'.

The mom had a 3-some with at least 1 man that has a different ethnicity than hers.

Cool story bro

[mok86]

haha i thought about this...and now i'm intrigued to hear the response

[BaboSo]

This is what I can come up with.

Parent 1 is half Chinese and half white.

Parent 2 is half Chinese and half black.

Quantitatively, the child would be quarter Chinese, quarter Chinese, quarter white and quarter black. Which can also make the child (quantitatively) half Chinese, quarter white and quarter black.

But race wise, the child would be 1/3 a race. 1/3 Chinese, 1/3 white and 1/3 black. Because there are 3 races here.

[Dash]

mathematically it seems possible. you'd just have it would just take alot of generation's to get that mix.

[Dash]

This is what I can come up with.

Parent 1 is half Chinese and half white.

Parent 2 is half Chinese and half black.

Quantitatively, the child would be quarter Chinese, quarter Chinese, quarter white and quarter black. Which can also make the child (quantitatively) half Chinese, quarter white and quarter black.

But race wise, the child would be 1/3 a race. 1/3 Chinese, 1/3 white and 1/3 black. Because there are 3 races here.

I think that would make the child 1/2 chinese, 1/4 black, and 1/4 white. the OP is looking for 1/3 of a race.

[Hairball]

I did some quick math, but I don't think any base 2 number is divisible by 3. Hence you can't get an exact 1/3, but it can be close as you have more generations.

[champlinD]

WTF? is it TGIF d0rk?:razz:

[ji_howa]

Incest will have to be involved

Suppose:

Father = race A
Mother = race B

Child = 1/2 A, 1/2 B

Child mates with father ->
Grandchild -> 1/2 A form father, 1/4 A from child, 1/4 B from child

So 3 parts race A, 1 part race B in Grandchild, but 1 part of the Grandchild's Genetic Material of race A is duplicate because it was all from the original Father of race A

So total proportion of genetic material = 2 parts A, 1 part B

Hence 1/3 race B

[Eyies]

Incest will have to be involved

Suppose:

Father = race A
Mother = race B

Child = 1/2 A, 1/2 B

Child mates with father ->
Grandchild -> 1/2 A form father, 1/4 A from child, 1/4 B from child

So 3 parts race A, 1 part race B in Grandchild, but 1 part of the Grandchild's Genetic Material of race A is duplicate because it was all from the original Father of race A

So total proportion of genetic material = 2 parts A, 1 part B

Hence 1/3 race B
Creative but..

.. no

[ji_howa]

Creative but..

.. no

care to elaborate?

[Hairball]

care to elaborate?

I don't really know how the genetic material and all work. But based on what you described, it would still seem like it would be 3/4 A and 1/4 B.

[YYZFA]

My friend said he wrote a thesis proving that it's possible to be 1/3 or 1/6 of a race.. basically any fraction other than 1/2 or 1/4.

He told me some really complex biology stuff - but I don't get it. Can someone explain it to me in layman terms?

What is a race? Do you believe that blood lines from one ethnicity are completely separate from all others? I don't know much about "really complex biology stuff", but I know that all people belong to the same "race", and that there is no pure ethnicity. We have all evolved from the same origins, so that there is no distinct types of human races. Ethnicity and physical attributes due to geographical location are for the most part just cosmetic and they don't mean that these people belong to a different race.

The thesis is just stupid to begin with.

[mok86]

I don't really know how the genetic material and all work. But based on what you described, it would still seem like it would be 3/4 A and 1/4 B.

and... really wrong... lol

[mingyang]

stupid thread
oh and every stupid topic starts with my friend..........blah blah

[rabbit]

Off the top of my head, it may be possible if someone were born with an extra chromosome (XXY or XYY).

[gretzky99]

Off the top of my head, it may be possible if someone were born with an extra chromosome (XXY or XYY).

huh? I thought if you had an extra chromosome it means you had Downs Syndrome? What does an extra chromosome have to do with race?

[LaserEnvy]

stupid thread

Most threads here in OT are silly. Just roll with it.

[danfromwaterloo]

Genetically, and using de facto fractions, no. Everybody has only one mother and one father, therefore, the genetic tree is pure binary, and binary is not divisible by three evenly (1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256, etc).

If you eliminate the de facto fractions, then yes. You can have the situation listed above, A/B mother B/C father = A/B/C child. Of course, it would be 1/4, 1/2, 1/4, but in a sense, yes - one of three races.

If however, you start talking about race, religion and culture, it is possible to be 1/3 something. For example, if you are born Canadian, of Jewish religion, from a Russian family, that could be defined as 1/3, 1/3, 1/3.

Depends highly on definition.

[corrupt123]

You would need to be a cosine function

[evolve]

Let's assume a person is

1/2 chinese (50%)
1/4 white (25%)
1/4 black (25%)

this person makes offsprings with another person of:

1/4 chinese (25%)
1/2 white (50%)
1/4 black (25%)

this person would be 50% of each:

3/8 chinese (38%)
3/8 white (38%)
1/4 black (25%)

Now, if this person makes offsprings with:

1/4 chinese (25%)
1/4 white (25%)
1/2 black (50%)

this person would again be 50% of each:

chinese (31%)
white (31%)
black (38%)

By recursion, If we were to take take the limit of successive offsprings of races, we would be able to produce an offspring of exactly 1/3 chinese, 1/3 white, 1/3 black.

[Krox]

Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes for a total of 46. Each parent gives half of a pair of chromosome. So if father is 'race 1' and mother is 'race 2', then the child is 1/2 of each race.

If two 1/2 children have kids, it is possible for their kids to be 100% of either race and combinations in between. They are not automatically 1/4.

Of course this assumes that each race share no 'similar' alleles in common which is a BIG assumption. Also, it assumes that no recombination between chromosomes takes place which is also a BIG assumption. It also doesn't take into account mitochondrial DNA which comes 100% from the mother.

But the simple answer to why there is no 1/3 races is that chromosomes are pairs with each parent donating half. The real answer, genetically speaking is that the differences between races is VERY small in comparison to the entire human genome.

[hoob]

Do you mean ancestrally, or genetically? Ancestrally, it's possible by geometric progression towards 1/3 over successive generations (you will get asymptotically close to 1/3, not too far up the chain.)

Genetically, it is possible that of the arbitrary "N genes or phenotypes" that are determined to define a particular "race", a person's DNA encodes N/3 of them. The probability of any particular one of those N markers is decided at conception and is influenced, of course, by the ancestry of the egg and sperm.

[b0rk]

Let's assume a person is

1/2 chinese (50%)
1/4 white (25%)
1/4 black (25%)

this person makes offsprings with another person of:

1/4 chinese (25%)
1/2 white (50%)
1/4 black (25%)

this person would be 50% of each:

3/8 chinese (38%)
3/8 white (38%)
1/4 black (25%)

Now, if this person makes offsprings with:

1/4 chinese (25%)
1/4 white (25%)
1/2 black (50%)

this person would again be 50% of each:

chinese (31%)
white (31%)
black (38%)

By recursion, If we were to take take the limit of successive offsprings of races, we would be able to produce an offspring of exactly 1/3 chinese, 1/3 white, 1/3 black.

I think you got it. Hence, this thesis wasn't just a 2 page essay.. lots of research and math to back it up. Thanks. I knew some people on RFD were smarter than me. ;)

[rabbit]

> huh? I thought if you had an extra chromosome it means you had Downs Syndrome? What does an extra chromosome have to do with race?

Well, as I wrote, it was off the top of my head. It's been a long time since Biology. It's obvious now that I was incorrect.

[Nikita]

K...let's just start by qualifying what I'm going to say...lol.

1. I'm no biologist or mathmetician
2. I'm talking about ethnicity and not race, so I don't know if this will make a difference.

My dad is Lebanese, my mom is Scotch, Irish and British. Sooo, I consider myself 1/2 Lebanese, 1/6 Scotch, 1/6 Irish and 1/6 British. It all adds up to 100%, so I'm not understanding the difficulty. And I'm not understanding how one can write an entire thesis on topic like this...lol...but that's why I qualified my answer...;)

[Dash]

K...let's just start by qualifying what I'm going to say...lol.

1. I'm no biologist or mathmetician
2. I'm talking about ethnicity and not race, so I don't know if this will make a difference.

My dad is Lebanese, my mom is Scotch, Irish and British. Sooo, I consider myself 1/2 Lebanese, 1/6 Scotch, 1/6 Irish and 1/6 British. It all adds up to 100%, so I'm not understanding the difficulty. And I'm not understanding how one can write an entire thesis on topic like this...lol...but that's why I qualified my answer...;)

well, you're doing that math based on your mom being 1/3 scotch, 1/3 Baily's, and 1/3 Lager. the question still remains, how can your mom be 1/3 of 3 ethnicities?

[AcidBomber]

Let's assume a person is

1/2 chinese (50%)
1/4 white (25%)
1/4 black (25%)

this person makes offsprings with another person of:

1/4 chinese (25%)
1/2 white (50%)
1/4 black (25%)

this person would be 50% of each:

3/8 chinese (38%)
3/8 white (38%)
1/4 black (25%)

Now, if this person makes offsprings with:

1/4 chinese (25%)
1/4 white (25%)
1/2 black (50%)

this person would again be 50% of each:

chinese (31%)
white (31%)
black (38%)

By recursion, If we were to take take the limit of successive offsprings of races, we would be able to produce an offspring of exactly 1/3 chinese, 1/3 white, 1/3 black.


interesting scenario. recursion ftw.

this thread is so lol.

[mok86]

hrm thats wat i thought mathematically...but he said there were crazy bio stuff to go with it as well...

Let's assume a person is

1/2 chinese (50%)
1/4 white (25%)
1/4 black (25%)

this person makes offsprings with another person of:

1/4 chinese (25%)
1/2 white (50%)
1/4 black (25%)

this person would be 50% of each:

3/8 chinese (38%)
3/8 white (38%)
1/4 black (25%)

Now, if this person makes offsprings with:

1/4 chinese (25%)
1/4 white (25%)
1/2 black (50%)

this person would again be 50% of each:

chinese (31%)
white (31%)
black (38%)

By recursion, If we were to take take the limit of successive offsprings of races, we would be able to produce an offspring of exactly 1/3 chinese, 1/3 white, 1/3 black.

[Squiggles]

Some day we will all be gray.

[Nikita]

well, you're doing that math based on your mom being 1/3 scotch, 1/3 Baily's, and 1/3 Lager. the question still remains, how can your mom be 1/3 of 3 ethnicities?

LOL...clever Dash. I'll explain in your language.

1.My mom's dad was Scotch and Bailey's and her mom was Lager.
2.So my mom is Scotch, Baileys and Lager.
3.My dad is Lebanese.
4.I'm half my dad and half my mom = (1/2L) + (1/6S +1/6B +1/6L)
5.= 1 = me being 1/2 L , 1/6S, 1/6B, 1/6L

(That is me trying to look like a mathmetician like some of you real mathmeticians..lol...have I confused everyone yet?)

Hmmm, guess that makes me a mongrel of sorts...lol.

[Dash]

LOL...clever Dash. I'll explain in your language.

1.My mom's dad was Scotch and Bailey's and her mom was Lager.
2.So my mom is Scotch, Baileys and Lager.
3.My dad is Lebanese.
4.I'm half my dad and half my mom = (1/2L) + (1/6S +1/6B +1/6L)
5.= 1 = me being 1/2 L , 1/6S, 1/6B, 1/6L

(That is me trying to look like a mathmetician like some of you real mathmeticians..lol...have I confused everyone yet?)

Hmmm, guess that makes me a mongrel of sorts...lol.

actually, I think that makes you a schwarma dish, with a baileys bomber shot, and a lager chaser...

but by your explanation, your mom is 1/2 Lager, 1/4 scotch, and 1/4 baileys.

that would make you 1/2 lebanese, 1/8 scotch, 1/8 baileys, and 1/4 lager. so still, not 1/3.

and if it were actually in my language. I would probably just say you're white. :lol:

[Nikita]

actually, I think that makes you a schwarma dish, with a baileys bomber shot, and a lager chaser...

but by your explanation, your mom is 1/2 Lager, 1/4 scotch, and 1/4 baileys.

that would make you 1/2 lebanese, 1/8 scotch, 1/8 baileys, and 1/4 lager. so still, not 1/3.

Ahhh, you're right, very good! (And ROFL @ the schwarma dish....geez you crack me up sometimes!) And all my life I've explained my ethnicity just as I did before this post! Toldya math wasn't my strong suit...lol.

and if it were actually in my language. I would probably just say you're white. :lol:

Haha..again, right! I do consider myself white, but that's a color, not an etnicity or heritage or w/e. Can ya tell I just don't put my mind to stuff like this that puts us in boxes? Else I would have had it right all along.

Well that was an interesting learning experience...:)

[flexwong]

race is a social construct.

[Nikita]

race is a social construct.

Race is a color, stereotypes based on race are a social construct.

[i6s1]

1.My mom's dad was Scotch and Bailey's and her mom was Lager.



Baily's, Scotch, and Lager? Sounds more like a drink than a person.

[Nikita]

Baily's, Scotch, and Lager? Sounds more like a drink than a person.

LOL...guess you didn't read the exchanges between Dash and myself. If you do, you'll get it.

[Rhombuss]

2^x is not divisible by 3. Therefore you'll always be 1/(2^x) of some ethnicity.

[t3359]

Incest will have to be involved

Suppose:

Father = race A
Mother = race B

Child = 1/2 A, 1/2 B

Child mates with father ->
Grandchild -> 1/2 A form father, 1/4 A from child, 1/4 B from child

So 3 parts race A, 1 part race B in Grandchild, but 1 part of the Grandchild's Genetic Material of race A is duplicate because it was all from the original Father of race A

So total proportion of genetic material = 2 parts A, 1 part B

Hence 1/3 race B

Seems to make sense, at least biologically...

Creative but..

.. no

???

bjl

[Nikita]

2^x is not divisible by 3. Therefore you'll always be 1/(2^x) of some ethnicity.

Well if my mom's dad is of two ethnicities and her mom is of one, why can't she be 1/3 of each, in fact how can she not be? It's not like she can just pick one of her father's two, or ignore her mother's one. Who say's you can only be 1/(2^x) of some ethnicity anyway??

[Hairball]

Well if my mom's dad is of two ethnicities and her mom is of one, why can't she be 1/3 of each, in fact how can she not be? It's not like she can just pick one of her father's two, or ignore her mother's one. Who say's you can only be 1/(2^x) of some ethnicity anyway??

I think the assumption is that you take 50% of the genes from the mother, and 50% from the father. I am not sure how race works genetically, but if it's 50/50, then it is simply not possible to get an exact 1/3.

In the example you describe, say the dad is half black and half white, and the mom is white. Then that child would be 3/4 white and 1/4 black. How can you get the 1/3?

[Nikita]

I think the assumption is that you take 50% of the genes from the mother, and 50% from the father. I am not sure how race works genetically, but if it's 50/50, then it is simply not possible to get an exact 1/3.

In the example you describe, say the dad is half black and half white, and the mom is white. Then that child would be 3/4 white and 1/4 black. How can you get the 1/3?

Because in your example the father is one race, the mother is one race. In my situation, my mother's father is two ethnicities and her mother is one ethnicity. So I can't see how my mother can be half Brithsh (her mother's ethnicity) and only on half of her father's ethnicity. So if she takes half her ethnicity from each parent, she'd have to be 1/2 of each of her father's (1/2 Scotch + 1/2 Irish) and 1/2 of her mother's (1/2 British). All of that again means 1/2Father and 1/2 Mother, the 1/2 father being 1/2 of Scotch and 1/2 of Irish, the 1/2 mother being 1/2 British = 1/3 of each. Again I don't see how it could be otherwise since she can't just pick which of her father's ethnicity she wants, it is what it is.

I still don't know why your so sure everyone can only be 2 ethnicities. Is it some sort of rule...lol...cuz the biophysics (if that's the right term) you suggest don't make sense to me. The blood of all three (for lack of a better way of saying it) is in her.

[Hairball]

Because in your example the father is one race, the mother is one race. In my situation, my mother's father is two ethnicities and her mother is one ethnicity. So I can't see how my mother can be half Brithsh (her mother's ethnicity) and only on half of her father's ethnicity. So if she takes half her ethnicity from each parent, she'd have to be 1/2 of each of her father's (1/2 Scotch + 1/2 Irish) and 1/2 of her mother's (1/2 British). All of that again means 1/2Father and 1/2 Mother, the 1/2 father being 1/2 of Scotch and 1/2 of Irish, the 1/2 mother being 1/2 British = 1/3 of each. Again I don't see how it could be otherwise since she can't just pick which of her father's ethnicity she wants, it is what it is.

I still don't know why your so sure everyone can only be 2 ethnicities. Is it some sort of rule...lol...cuz the biophysics (if that's the right term) you suggest don't make sense to me. The blood of all three (for lack of a better way of saying it) is in her.

Using only 2 races is just easier to explain, not that that is all you can be. But now you're complicating it with the Irish, Scotch and British, would Irish and Scotch also be British? lol...

I think the point someone above brought up was that everyone has to have one mother and one father. And no power of 2 is divisible by 3, that it wouldn't be possible to have a perfect 1/3 of a race, though it may be close over some number of generations, theoretically at least.

[Tijuana]

I've actually done alot of thinking about the technicalities of peoples races. And I am pretty sure your friend is wrong and I hope he fails his thesis. You can only be full, half, quarter, 8ths and so on. Since your *race* comes from your mom and your dad, it is pretty much impossible to be 1/3 of something.

[13sundin]

Well if my mom's dad is of two ethnicities and her mom is of one, why can't she be 1/3 of each, in fact how can she not be? It's not like she can just pick one of her father's two, or ignore her mother's one. Who say's you can only be 1/(2^x) of some ethnicity anyway??

you would be 1/4 of both of your mom's race and 1/2 your dad's