COLLECTIONS AND COLLECTION AGENTS: Ask me anything! (Official RFD Thread)

[Donomight25]

HI RFD!

I work in the collection industry. Have for the last 7 years. Multiple agencies, clients and creditors.

If I can be of any assistance in:

-Debunking collection myths
-Helping with collection issues
-Answering common questions
-Saving you money

please let me know. I am here to answer anything you can throw my way from credit bureaus, to stopping live/automated calls even how to use/abuse credit.

Lets have at it.

[budfrogs]

Do we have any laws protecting when/how many times/what can be said here in Canada or based on province? (Like the US's Federal Fair Debt act).

Are collectors required to show written proof the debt is owed to the person when asked without calling anymore?

[edwardalex]

do you check the credit of ppl you are trying to collect from?

[Donomight25]

Do we have any laws protecting when/how many times/what can be said here in Canada or based on province? (Like the US's Federal Fair Debt act).

When: depends on Provence.
How many:3x weekly attempts or contacts, unless specified on a weekly basis.
What is said: Collectors a limited to what they can say via
-Collection Act
-Specific Client workplan*

*Each client has a laid-out, collection industry specific 'work plan' that is stressed and emphasized by each client, some being more strict than others. Some give the collectors full privileges, allowing you to call the consumers/debtors place of employment, a co-signer if one exists and even neighbors/relatives ect. Some clients (CIBC being one) require all calls to be recorded, a specific manger-collector ratio, segregated collection office with double lock-and-key procedure, segregated printer, fax machine and photocopier.

Are collectors required to show written proof the debt is owed to the person when asked without calling anymore?

Each agency is required to send a notice/letter informing the consumer that they are acting on behalf of the creditor within one week of the debt being placed in that specific collection agency. The letter needs to go to the last address provided to the CLIENT and NOT to the most recent address on a consumers credit bureau.

Upon your request at any tme, each agency is also required to send you a letter with:
- their letterhead
- the creditors name
- creditors reference #
- amount owing
- collectors full name

[Jucius Maximus]

What is the statute of limitations on debt collection?

[Donomight25]

do you check the credit of ppl you are trying to collect from?

Yes.

Any debt above a certain amount (usually per client, but around $1000) and within a certain time period of the debt being owed, the acting agency usually puts an inquiry on your bureau.

Most use Trans Union.

[edwardalex]

do banks sue people who default on credit card debt / line of credit debt or do they just write it off after a certain time period

[Donomight25]

What is the statute of limitations on debt collection?

Depends what product, what Provence.

http://www.bankruptcycanada.com/limitationacts.htm gives you all the provences, but heres an example:

Ont: Before 2004, 6 years after last recognition of the debt. (Payment, $0.01 or otherwise) TO LITIGATE.
After 2004, 2 years after last recognition of the debt (Payment, $0.01 or otherwise) TO LITIGATE.

Even after either statute has expired, the creditors still have the availability to hire collection companies to call you and collect based on a MORAL obligation as opposed to a contractual one. They could even sell the debt, where the are no laws the govern the collection practices.

[doc79]

Do you get tired of the profanity spewed your way on a regular basis?:cheesygri

[Donomight25]

do banks sue people who default on credit card debt / line of credit debt or do they just write it off after a certain time period

2 Part answer here:

1. Litigaton

Yes. Banks sue. It LARGLY depends on a multitude of variables like:

-creditor
-amount
-secured/unsecured
-product (credit card, mortgage, line of credit)
-time outstanding
-your debt ratio
-where you live
-what assets you have, bank is aware of
-your credit history

Banks don't usually issue a statement of claim by themselves. They will use a collection agency who employ their own lawyers to do so. Sometimes the client will allow the collection agency to sue the consumer without asking the client, as per the clients work plan. This is 'Qualifying' the file.

2. Write off/Written off

Write off does not mean the bank/creditor doesn't want their money anymore. Write off means that the status of that specific open trade on your bureau has been defaulted on.

Fancy way of saying 'sent to collections'.

[edwardalex]

2 Part answer here:

1. Litigaton

Yes. Banks sue. It LARGLY depends on a multitude of variables like:

-creditor
-amount
-secured/unsecured
-product (credit card, mortgage, line of credit)
-time outstanding
-your debt ratio
-where you live
-what assets you have, bank is aware of
-your credit history

Banks don't usually issue a statement of claim by themselves. They will use a collection agency who employ their own lawyers to do so. Sometimes the client will allow the collection agency to sue the consumer without asking the client, as per the clients work plan. This is 'Qualifying' the file.

2. Write off/Written off

Write off does not mean the bank/creditor doesn't want their money anymore. Write off means that the status of that specific open trade on your bureau has been defaulted on.

Fancy way of saying 'sent to collections'.

I guess I meant for unsecured credit products. Is there any recourse for the bank if someone just decides not to pay?

[Donomight25]

Do you get tired of the profanity spewed your way on a regular basis?:cheesygri

Someone wants to get mad at me because they owe money or have a dispute with my client?

I have a nice little red button that makes that person go away very quickly.

You wanna call me back over and over and over again?

I'll file a police report AND suggest to our client that they take whatever recourse they deem necessary.

Not my debt, not my credit and not my peace of mind. :razz:

To answer your question more professionally, no.

[edwardalex]

What is the average salary for a collections agent?

[Donomight25]

I guess I meant for unsecured credit products. Is there any recourse for the bank if someone just decides not to pay?

If you decide not to pay, the bank can (in this order):

Collect in-house. This means that the actual creditor is calling you ie. the bank.

Reposes the asset/close the line of credit, credit card or account.

Status your open trade as an R7-9.

Place the debt on your personal credit bureau as a collection account.

Place the debt with a collection agency.

Sue you. (This can be done on day 1 of the default, so this can happen anytime)

[Donomight25]

What is the average salary for a collections agent?

Depends on Provence, agency, clients they hold ect.

Usually around $2000 gross/mth to start, without experience.

[shawn99]

just an example, a person owes 20k in credit card debt and has no assets of real value, would they sue you?..Have you seen cases like this?

[Jucius Maximus]

just an example, a person owes 20k in credit card debt and has no assets of real value, would they sue you?..Have you seen cases like this?

If the person has an income then they can garnish the wages.
But if the person has no income and no assets, then they are judgement proof.

Then the collectors will realise they are not going to get paid and start negotiating...

[islena]

If an collections agent calls asking for 'Soandso', but the people reached via telephone has no clue who this 'Soandso' is, is there anyway to make the collection agency stop calling? >:(

[Jucius Maximus]

If an collections agent calls asking for 'Soandso', but the people reached via telephone has no clue who this 'Soandso' is, is there anyway to make the collection agency stop calling? >:(

My friend had that problem because someone had actually fraudulently given the collection company his phone number and address (apparently because he had the same last name as the person they were looking for) so he just phoned them up and explained that he had no idea who this person was. They stopped bothering him.

[GSRee]

Some give the collectors full privileges, allowing you to call the consumers/debtors place of employment, a co-signer if one exists and even neighbors/relatives ect.

I just saw something on TV recently where friends/neighbours of a debtor were being harassed. How is it determined that these people can be called? Did the debtor sign a contract that included some clause like "if you fail to pay, you agree to let us harass everyone around you"? Or is that something that is just automatically allowed?

[pchiarel]

In your experience, do pay for deletes work? If the statute of limitations is up will a collection agency remove the negative tradeline in exchange for full payment of the debt?

[faken]

what type of education background do you recommend to get into this industry?

[boyoflondon]

what type of education background do you recommend to get into this industry?

You don't really need anything specific to be in collections ... most just require a HS diploma.

[Donomight25]

just an example, a person owes 20k in credit card debt and has no assets of real value, would they sue you?..Have you seen cases like this?

Yes. Suing you and winning is easy. They have an ironclad, tight fisted contract that was poured over by lawyers for hours before they decided to use it for consumers.

Getting the money is harder. They need to find some way to get it. Liens, garnishees and repo are the most common.

[Donomight25]

If the person has an income then they can garnish the wages.
But if the person has no income and no assets, then they are judgement proof.

Then the collectors will realise they are not going to get paid and start negotiating...

Not judgement proof. Judge/JP will always give a judgment to one party either way, 95% of the time to the creditor (bank).

I see people who have no job sued all the time. The bank just wants to put it on their bureau for a few years.

They way they see it is: We have insurance, but we'll screw this persons bureau for a few years anyways.

[Donomight25]

If an collections agent calls asking for 'Soandso', but the people reached via telephone has no clue who this 'Soandso' is, is there anyway to make the collection agency stop calling? >:(

Take a message. Take a name, number, agency name, reference number, fax number...whatever they are willing to give you.

Then, in the same phone call, tell this collector this person does NOT live here. Tell them that if you receive another phone call from them live or through an automated machine that you will file a complaint with the client and the ministry.

They usually stop calling.

[Donomight25]

I just saw something on TV recently where friends/neighbours of a debtor were being harassed. How is it determined that these people can be called? Did the debtor sign a contract that included some clause like "if you fail to pay, you agree to let us harass everyone around you"? Or is that something that is just automatically allowed?

I can call anyone I want... but telling them info is what I can't do.

I can give my name, agency name, number, fax number and a reference number. That's it.*

I cannot give out: Who my client is (bank ect), personal info about the consumer/debtor, other phone numbers, other addresses or amounts ect.





** A typical neighbor phone call would be:

Hi mr/mrs **** .

Can you do me a favor? Thanks, I am looking for John Smith... hes the neighbor beside you. I haven't heard from him in a while, do you think that you could maybe tape a message to his door or slip a message in his mailbox? Yes, he knows who I am. My number is xxx xxx xxxx ext xxxx and my name is xxxxx. Thanks a lot.

[mjl_toronto]

Take a message. Take a name, number, agency name, reference number, fax number...whatever they are willing to give you.

Then, in the same phone call, tell this collector this person does NOT live here. Tell them that if you receive another phone call from them live or through an automated machine that you will file a complaint with the client and the ministry.

They usually stop calling.

Similar situation with me, except I'm getting calls at my work number which is unlisted. I get 3-4 calls daily, and always get a recorded message saying I have to pay my Rogers bill or else (paraphrased). I never get a reference # to call back and I don't know how to make it stop. I've even tried calling but can only get to voicemails as nobody is available to pick up the phone.

Absolutely annoying!

[Donomight25]

In your experience, do pay for deletes work? If the statute of limitations is up will a collection agency remove the negative tradeline in exchange for full payment of the debt?

If the statute is up, the tradeline is removed anyways. There is a different part of your bureau to record debts owing to a company.


The debt is usually recorded as a 'collection item' a year or so before the R9 drops off your bureau. It may not show up for a while, sometimes years after the debt was incurred.

[Donomight25]

Similar situation with me, except I'm getting calls at my work number which is unlisted. I get 3-4 calls daily, and always get a recorded message saying I have to pay my Rogers bill or else (paraphrased). I never get a reference # to call back and I don't know how to make it stop. I've even tried calling but can only get to voicemails as nobody is available to pick up the phone.

Absolutely annoying!

What number are they leaving?

[al_carrerra]

Can someone's credit get hit by a credit agency by only having the person's first and last name only ?

[Donomight25]

Can someone's credit get hit by a credit agency by only having the person's first and last name only ?

No.

You need to have MINIMUM:

First, last name
Current address that matches current/previous address on the TU
DOB or SIN

[GSRee]

I can call anyone I want... but telling them info is what I can't do.

Interesting. Would the same 3x weekly call limit apply to the neighbours? How about requests for the calls to stop? From what the people were saying it sounded like the calls were quite regular, and continued after they were asked to stop.

[Donomight25]

Interesting. Would the same 3x weekly call limit apply to the neighbours? How about requests for the calls to stop? From what the people were saying it sounded like the calls were quite regular, and continued after they were asked to stop.

Limit doesn't apply to anyone but the consumers known home, cell and work phone. 3x attempts per week to the consumer in general via one or all of these lines.

If there is a co-signer, I can try each number 3x per consumer. 6x per week.

Problem exists here. Hard to prove an agency is calling more than the allotted per week. Most agencies block the numbers.

Contacting the police doesn't work. It's a civil matter unless you can prove it's the agency calling. Phone companies won't reverse the blocked call unless its a police matter.

Rock here. >YOU< Hard place here.

[Jungle]

Take a message. Take a name, number, agency name, reference number, fax number...whatever they are willing to give you.

Then, in the same phone call, tell this collector this person does NOT live here. Tell them that if you receive another phone call from them live or through an automated machine that you will file a complaint with the client and the ministry.

They usually stop calling.

This is good to know. I got into an arguement with a collector at work because he kept calling and harassing everyone at the work place, looking for someone that owes money. He would call at the busiest times when we were very busy with customers.

[pchiarel]

If the statute is up, the tradeline is removed anyways. There is a different part of your bureau to record debts owing to a company.


The debt is usually recorded as a 'collection item' a year or so before the R9 drops off your bureau. It may not show up for a while, sometimes years after the debt was incurred.

Sorry, I should've been more clear. What I meant was the statute of limitations to sue in Ontario (2 years). So, basically I'm saying I owe the money...remove the negative tradeline from my report and I'll pay in full..otherwise you won't get a cent from me because you can't sue me in court.

[King of Clones]

Take a message. Take a name, number, agency name, reference number, fax number...whatever they are willing to give you.

Then, in the same phone call, tell this collector this person does NOT live here. Tell them that if you receive another phone call from them live or through an automated machine that you will file a complaint with the client and the ministry.

They usually stop calling.

I went and got an unlisted number. Worked perfectly

[mjl_toronto]

What number are they leaving?

None, but my caller ID displays 905-855-7515.

[islena]

My friend had that problem because someone had actually fraudulently given the collection company his phone number and address (apparently because he had the same last name as the person they were looking for) so he just phoned them up and explained that he had no idea who this person was. They stopped bothering him.

Take a message. Take a name, number, agency name, reference number, fax number...whatever they are willing to give you.

Then, in the same phone call, tell this collector this person does NOT live here. Tell them that if you receive another phone call from them live or through an automated machine that you will file a complaint with the client and the ministry.

They usually stop calling.

Thanks. We tried to explain that we didn't know this person (who is apparently not paying their Rogers bill). In the same phone call where we deny knowledge of this guy, the agent continues to ask for alternate contact info. Sooo stupid! How do you give info on somebody you don't even know?! And they (different agents) keep calling back. We've now resorted to call blocking them. :|

[Donomight25]

None, but my caller ID displays 905-855-7515.

Thats Contact Resource Services.

Contact Resource Services Inc
1117, rue Sainte-Catherine Ouest,
Montreal, QC
H3B 1H9
Canada
(514) 282-1322

(THEY HAVE AN OFFICE IN MISSISSAUGA)

This is what you need to do:

Call their number. The 905, the 514..whatever. Get reception. Give them your number to pull up the account. S/he will xfer you to the collector. When the collector answers, ask them to pull up your account via your phone number. Now, ask for:
- collectors name (if they didn't say it answering the phone)
- ext #
- ref # for the account

if they ask why, just tell them you are writing it down so you can stick it on the fridge. NOW...tell this collector that THIS PERSON DOES NOT LIVE OR WORK HERE. Tell them you have the agency name, the name of the collector and the reference # and their extension. If they make anymore calls to xxx xxx xxxx (your num) that you will proceed to file a complaint with the client and the ministry. Tell them (if you want) that the call was recorded and hang up. Make sure to hang up. No arguments, no yelling, no names, no swearing. Just hang up.

They won't call back.

[Sheem]

Can a collection agency remove the debt from your credit report once it is paid? I recently paid a collection agency for a debt from 2006. They never had my recent mailing address so all notices went to an old address. I paid the debt but would like to have it deleted from my credit report. Is this possible?

[Donomight25]

I went and got an unlisted number. Worked perfectly

Your unlisted number may be recycled. Your recycled number may have been used by someone (years ago) who applied for a visa ect and updated their bureau with that number.

They are now in collections. An agency pulls the bureau and starts calling you daily looking for someone else.


Your unlisted phone number is not call-proof. Trust me. I hear it all day... 'Howd you get this #? It's unlisted.' or the infamous 'My number is unlisted, and I am calling the police'. There are 29384733473837x other situations that could see your unlisted number end up in an agencies records. Someone punches in xxx xxx xxx9 instead of xxx xxx xxx8. The list goes on.

[Donomight25]

Can a collection agency remove the debt from your credit report once it is paid? I recently paid a collection agency for a debt from 2006. They never had my recent mailing address so all notices went to an old address. I paid the debt but would like to have it deleted from my credit report. Is this possible?

Before you pay anything, ask for something in writing from the company. If you are paying the account in full, ask for a balance letter with payment instructions on it. Make sure the letter outlines that they will update your bureau within a month or so.

If you're settling the debt **MAKE SURE to get a settlement letter. Make sure one of the clauses (agreements between the parties) includes them updating your bureau within a certain amount of time.

If you've already paid them: Make sure to get a RELEASE LETTER with the date you paid, how much and to whom (client). Make sure it says their updating your bureau within 30days or so.


To answer your question: Yes, they HAVE to update the debt as settled/paid in full and have the balance reflect $0.00. They will not delete the debt, as your bureau will reflect this collection account as one for 6 years after they placed it on your bureau. It will, although, bode well for you as reflecting SIF/PIF (settled/paid in full).

[mjl_toronto]

Thats Contact Resource Services.

Contact Resource Services Inc
1117, rue Sainte-Catherine Ouest,
Montreal, QC
H3B 1H9
Canada
(514) 282-1322

(THEY HAVE AN OFFICE IN MISSISSAUGA)

This is what you need to do:

Call their number. The 905, the 514..whatever. Get reception. Give them your number to pull up the account. S/he will xfer you to the collector. When the collector answers, ask them to pull up your account via your phone number. Now, ask for:
- collectors name (if they didn't say it answering the phone)
- ext #
- ref # for the account

if they ask why, just tell them you are writing it down so you can stick it on the fridge. NOW...tell this collector that THIS PERSON DOES NOT LIVE OR WORK HERE. Tell them you have the agency name, the name of the collector and the reference # and their extension. If they make anymore calls to xxx xxx xxxx (your num) that you will proceed to file a complaint with the client and the ministry. Tell them (if you want) that the call was recorded and hang up. Make sure to hang up. No arguments, no yelling, no names, no swearing. Just hang up.

They won't call back.

Thanks, will give that a try.

[Sheem]

Before you pay anything, ask for something in writing from the company. If you are paying the account in full, ask for a balance letter with payment instructions on it. Make sure the letter outlines that they will update your bureau within a month or so.

If you're settling the debt **MAKE SURE to get a settlement letter. Make sure one of the clauses (agreements between the parties) includes them updating your bureau within a certain amount of time.

If you've already paid them: Make sure to get a RELEASE LETTER with the date you paid, how much and to whom (client). Make sure it says their updating your bureau within 30days or so.


To answer your question: Yes, they HAVE to update the debt as settled/paid in full and have the balance reflect $0.00. They will not delete the debt, as your bureau will reflect this collection account as one for 6 years after they placed it on your bureau. It will, although, bode well for you as reflecting SIF/PIF (settled/paid in full).

Thank-you for the advice. I did get the letter of release with all the info you stated above. I was told that they will update the bureau, but it will take some time to show up.

[theguyz]

Is it not illegal for a collection agency prior to proving/verifying person they are talking to to discuss collections? Basically what i mean, is say collections calls a persons work, they cannot tell secretary this is abc collections, joe blow owes us 8 k for unpaid credit card, can you tell them to call us back.

Is it not collectors policy, to once they get someone on phone, verify identity priro to discussing, otherwise leave a message such as can you tell joe blow to call jennifer at 800# ext 123.


I have had issues where collections called looking, and basically say hello, this is collections company abc and i'm jennfer, you owe BANK ABC $10k, this is jennifer. I save excuss me, who are you looking for, they say joe blow, i say my name is max strong, they ask for verification ( sin # ) i say only government allowed thsi info and they say well you are joe blow and you owe us money. Now i am not joe blow, but they just told me someones issues, is it legal?????

[Donomight25]

Thanks, will give that a try.

Let me know the outcome.

[Donomight25]

Thank-you for the advice. I did get the letter of release with all the info you stated above. I was told that they will update the bureau, but it will take some time to show up.

Usually within 30 days, the agency reports it as paid.

That's not to say Trans Union/Equifax update it same day as reported. They may be behind 30days or so. Give it 90days post-payment to show on your bureau, as unwritten rule-of-thumb.

[Donomight25]

Is it not illegal for a collection agency prior to proving/verifying person they are talking to to discuss collections? Basically what i mean, is say collections calls a persons work, they cannot tell secretary this is abc collections, joe blow owes us 8 k for unpaid credit card, can you tell them to call us back.

Is it not collectors policy, to once they get someone on phone, verify identity priro to discussing, otherwise leave a message such as can you tell joe blow to call jennifer at 800# ext 123.


I have had issues where collections called looking, and basically say hello, this is collections company abc and i'm jennfer, you owe BANK ABC $10k, this is jennifer. I save excuss me, who are you looking for, they say joe blow, i say my name is max strong, they ask for verification ( sin # ) i say only government allowed thsi info and they say well you are joe blow and you owe us money. Now i am not joe blow, but they just told me someones issues, is it legal?????


Not legal.

Collector needs to verify consumers:
First name
last name
Address
dob OR sin

The collection act asks for 3/4.

If a collector is telling people who the creditor is, how much is owed ect, they can lose their license/job. Hard part is proving the collector did this.

[Transatlantique]

Hey Man, your help is a great addition to the forum.

Question: You mentioned that work phone calls are ok, but I read that the Collection Agency Acy (Ontario) limits contact at work to one attempt, if unsuccessful at contacting at home only, and only to verify contact info. Can you shed some light on this?

Collection Agencies May not:


Contact your employer except on one occasion to obtain your employment information, unless your employer has guaranteed the debt, the call is in respect of a court order or wage assignment or if you have provided written authorization to contact your employer.

http://www.sse.gov.on.ca/mcs/en/Pages/Personal_Finance_Collection_Agency_Issues.aspx

[Donomight25]

Hey Man, your help is a great addition to the forum.

Question: You mentioned that work phone calls are ok, but I read that the Collection Agency Acy (Ontario) limits contact at work to one attempt, if unsuccessful at contacting at home only, and only to verify contact info. Can you shed some light on this?

Collection Agencies May not:


Contact your employer except on one occasion to obtain your employment information, unless your employer has guaranteed the debt, the call is in respect of a court order or wage assignment or if you have provided written authorization to contact your employer.

http://www.sse.gov.on.ca/mcs/en/Pages/Personal_Finance_Collection_Agency_Issues.aspx

Most companies have more than one phone number. (800 num, local num fax num, email ect)

If I am dialing a company with extensions (which most have) the extension is included in the number I am calling.

Many ways to circumnavigate the Act.

Problem exists here. Hard to prove an agency is calling more than the allotted per week. Most agencies block the numbers.

Contacting the police doesn't work. It's a civil matter unless you can prove it's the agency calling. Phone companies won't reverse the blocked call unless its a police matter.

[al_carrerra]

No.

You need to have MINIMUM:

First, last name
Current address that matches current/previous address on the TU
DOB or SIN

Thanks for reply. Another question ...

If a bank transfers your file to a collection agency after the bank has already informed you that they are crediting your account to a $0 balance due to the credit card being compromised and used fraudulently (bank statement with $0 balance + police case # exists) .... what would be the appropriate action to take ? Have you dealt with such issue ? What is your opinion ?

[King of Clones]

Your unlisted number may be recycled. Your recycled number may have been used by someone (years ago) who applied for a visa ect and updated their bureau with that number.

They are now in collections. An agency pulls the bureau and starts calling you daily looking for someone else.


Your unlisted phone number is not call-proof. Trust me. I hear it all day... 'Howd you get this #? It's unlisted.' or the infamous 'My number is unlisted, and I am calling the police'. There are 29384733473837x other situations that could see your unlisted number end up in an agencies records. Someone punches in xxx xxx xxx9 instead of xxx xxx xxx8. The list goes on.

That was back in May...they haven't called since

[Transatlantique]

Another question here:

In your experience, at what dollar amount does a collection company consider court action? Do you know of a good way to convince them this isn't a good idea?

[Donomight25]

Thanks for reply. Another question ...

If a bank transfers your file to a collection agency after the bank has already informed you that they are crediting your account to a $0 balance due to the credit card being compromised and used fraudulently (bank statement with $0 balance + police case # exists) .... what would be the appropriate action to take ? Have you dealt with such issue ? What is your opinion ?

When your account is being finalized by the bank ie. closing, refinancing, sending to collections ect... you need this in writing. ESPECIALLY if they are balancing the account at $0 and closing it as fraud.

On the other hand, large conglomerate banks like this send the collection accounts as a batch of thousands. Yours might have been overlooked, forgotten about or maybe they couldn't recall it in time. Who knows...

What is the account reflecting now? Have they closed it? What does the collection agency say?

[Donomight25]

That was back in May...they haven't called since

I'm not saying the same agency would call.

Might be some agency somewhere else in Canada, and like I said... who knows who had the phone number before you.


My favorite is when someone tells me they own that phone number. I have to laugh.. since the phone company owns the number. They just pay for the service.

[Donomight25]

Another question here:

In your experience, at what dollar amount does a collection company consider court action? Do you know of a good way to convince them this isn't a good idea?


I'v seen small claim balances for $800 and $900. Doesn't happen all the time, depends on who the creditor is. I'v seen mortgages go unnoticed. Just depends.

407 used to sue a lot, before they got back the right to not allow you to renew Citi financial, Telus and Bank of Nova Scotia sue a lot too.

[King of Clones]

I'm not saying the same agency would call.

Might be some agency somewhere else in Canada, and like I said... who knows who had the phone number before you.


My favorite is when someone tells me they own that phone number. I have to laugh.. since the phone company owns the number. They just pay for the service.

I only owe about...they say $1,100 on a Telus bill from 2006. Actually the bill is about $600. There is no way I can pay it as I am going behind now month to month. I made bad decisions with money in last few years. There's nothing I can do...I have to ignone...until the 6 years are up. So,far I am ahead.

[Donomight25]

I only owe about...they say $1,100 on a Telus bill from 2006. Actually the bill is about $600. There is no way I can pay it as I am going behind now month to month. I made bad decisions with money in last few years. There's nothing I can do...I have to ignone...until the 6 years are up. So,far I am ahead.

I understand the financial situation. No need to explain here.

As for $1100, your principle write-off could have been $600, but after cancellation fees, 22% interest compounded and agency fees and 3 years worth of all, that sounds about right.

[monty613]

how much do you get paid once you collect upon the debt? what's the "commission" or bonus structure of a typical debt collection agency?

[Donomight25]

how much do you get paid once you collect upon the debt? what's the "commission" or bonus structure of a typical debt collection agency?

Depends on agency, client, collector wage ect.

Lots of variables here.

[Transatlantique]

I had a business arrangement/investment go south and owe CIBC about 30K. What do you think they would settle for? I'm self employed, so they cant really garnish wages and although I do own a house, I have no equity. Whats my best course of action?

[Donomight25]

I had a business arrangement/investment go south and owe CIBC about 30K. What do you think they would settle for? I'm self employed, so they cant really garnish wages and although I do own a house, I have no equity. Whats my best course of action?

When was the debt incurred?
Are there assets involved?
Secured or unsecured?
Whats the interest rate?
How many collection companies has it been through, that you know of?
Are you in contact with either the client/collection company?

** Please copy/paste my questions and write your answer beside **

For the settlement:
Are you single?
Kids?
Whats your trade?
How much can you prove you make, top end and bottom end? (Max/min)
Do you have a T1 from last year? If so, how much is reported?
What city are you in?

[bilibulu]

This is a :twisted: question. I have 5 credit cards each with $100K credit limit.

What if I owed the banks $500K in credit card debt. And if I racked them all up and maxed them out, transfer the money abroad, and leave the country.

I have no other assets in Canada. I am out of the country for good.

What are the banks going to do with me? They can't sue me because I will not be in Canada. They would put my name on the credit bureau. How long does this black mark stay? If I decide to come back after x number of years, would they be able to do anything against me?

[npinc]

Collection agencies can be sued for libellous slander if the "debt" is not a legitimate debt, regardless of whether they're aware of that fact or not.

A client can claim money owing and submit it for collections, but if it's an unjust claim and you hit the "debtors" credit rating you can be sued.

Have you ever been sued, or been named in a claim against the collection agency you've worked for? If so, how did you address it and how did the Courts find?

[King of Clones]

I understand the financial situation. No need to explain here.

As for $1100, your principle write-off could have been $600, but after cancellation fees, 22% interest compounded and agency fees and 3 years worth of all, that sounds about right.

Will they take me to court or just let it go?

I think I have a decent chance to get some debt removed even if they do take me to court. The $600 includes the cancellation(original debt was less than that). They never started calling me until January 2009. The debt occurred in late 2006. There was a little over 2 year gap, and when they did call debt had rose from $600 to $1,100.

[jacksorbetta]

This is a :twisted: question. I have 5 credit cards each with $100K credit limit.

What if I owed the banks $500K in credit card debt. And if I racked them all up and maxed them out, transfer the money abroad, and leave the country.

I have no other assets in Canada. I am out of the country for good.

What are the banks going to do with me? They can't sue me because I will not be in Canada. They would put my name on the credit bureau. How long does this black mark stay? If I decide to come back after x number of years, would they be able to do anything against me?

:lol:. This reminds me of an old saying " if you owe a bank $10,000, you have a problem. If you owe a bank $1,000,000. THEY have a problem"

My guess would be they would try to find you for a long time, but if you're out of the county, you're pretty much golden.

[monty613]

how much do you get paid once you collect upon the debt? what's the "commission" or bonus structure of a typical debt collection agency?

Depends on agency, client, collector wage ect.

Lots of variables here.

ballpark figure?

just curious what people are making doing this as a career...

[tng11]

This is a :twisted: question. I have 5 credit cards each with $100K credit limit.

What if I owed the banks $500K in credit card debt. And if I racked them all up and maxed them out, transfer the money abroad, and leave the country.

I have no other assets in Canada. I am out of the country for good.

What are the banks going to do with me? They can't sue me because I will not be in Canada. They would put my name on the credit bureau. How long does this black mark stay? If I decide to come back after x number of years, would they be able to do anything against me?
I wondered this myself.

I remember you are an HSBC Premier customer. I assume you hold their service in multiple countries. I do, I have it in multiple countries and hold Canadian, US, HK and UK credit cards issued by them. If you default on any credit product with them they can send the foreign HSBC to collect on their behalf if they know you have a relationship in another country, it's part of the agreement in some countries (at least in the HK and UK).

But that's a special case, just don't shaft HSBC when you flee the country and you should be golden. But I wonder if it could be considered fraud if they have evidence you deliberately maxed out all your credit facilities and fled the country.

[shawn99]

This is a :twisted: question. I have 5 credit cards each with $100K credit limit.

What if I owed the banks $500K in credit card debt. And if I racked them all up and maxed them out, transfer the money abroad, and leave the country.

I have no other assets in Canada. I am out of the country for good.

What are the banks going to do with me? They can't sue me because I will not be in Canada. They would put my name on the credit bureau. How long does this black mark stay? If I decide to come back after x number of years, would they be able to do anything against me?

The bank would never allow that much to be taken out, especially to a member that is not established ( excellent credit history, income etc.) I would think there a protective measures in place, especially these days after the credit crisis.

[Donomight25]

This is a :twisted: question. I have 5 credit cards each with $100K credit limit.

What if I owed the banks $500K in credit card debt. And if I racked them all up and maxed them out, transfer the money abroad, and leave the country.

I have no other assets in Canada. I am out of the country for good.

What are the banks going to do with me? They can't sue me because I will not be in Canada. They would put my name on the credit bureau. How long does this black mark stay? If I decide to come back after x number of years, would they be able to do anything against me?

Of course the bank can sue you, even though you're overseas. All they need to do is have a Statement of Claim filed, try serving you 3x at your most current address and place it on your bureau. The court date goes ahead and its called a Default Judgment.

As for you moving overseas, all the bank needs to do is prove that you planned to go into debt and leave the country (ie. showing that you maxed all the cards out at the same time) and this becomes a police matter. The police now have just cause beyond a reasonable doubt to have you arrested for fraud.

1/20 cases go that far. Credit is not so clear cut as to prove the consumer did this with ill will.

To answer your question, 6 years on your bureau and they have 2 to sue you in. Unless it's a student loan or back taxes. Different rules apply.

[Donomight25]

Collection agencies can be sued for libellous slander if the "debt" is not a legitimate debt, regardless of whether they're aware of that fact or not.

A client can claim money owing and submit it for collections, but if it's an unjust claim and you hit the "debtors" credit rating you can be sued.

Have you ever been sued, or been named in a claim against the collection agency you've worked for? If so, how did you address it and how did the Courts find?

You need to prove that the debt was not legit to win in a slander case. Doesn't happen very often. Last time I heard about an agency losing a case regarding slander was 2006.

You're right. If the AGENCY places the debt on the bureau, they can be sued. Only if the consumer can prove they don't owe the $$. Very hard to do.

Never been sued by anyone, collectors themselves are pretty protected when it comes to liability. Then again, the collector is working on behalf of the client, so the only real liability they have is to ensure we're talking to the right person.

Story time: Collector A called Mr. Smith. He turns out not to be home. Wife at the house takes a message. She asks what this is concerning. Collector A does the right thing and says he can't discuss it ect. Mrs Smith then tells collector that she is 65ish years old, they have been married for 40 years ect and that she handles the expenses, bills ect. Collector A says 'just tell him it's about the mortgage'.

Turns out that the Smiths mortgage was paid off sometime in the 80's and that the mortgage in collections was for MR SMITHS MISTRESS.

Collection agency paid the mortgage ($200,000+), damages against the marriage dissolving (TO BOTH PARTIES, unnamed damage but we think around $100,000 each) and court/lawyers fees ($20,000ish).

That was a biggy.

[Donomight25]

Will they take me to court or just let it go?

I think I have a decent chance to get some debt removed even if they do take me to court. The $600 includes the cancellation(original debt was less than that). They never started calling me until January 2009. The debt occurred in late 2006. There was a little over 2 year gap, and when they did call debt had rose from $600 to $1,100.

Even without the $200 cancellation fee, $1100 seems about right. Depending on the contract Telus had with the collections agencies, the agency could be charging telus per phone call, letter sent out and placing things on your bureau ect.

2 years of a $600 debt in collections ending up at $1100 sounds about right to me.


They prob won't sue you. Then again, it is Telus.

[Donomight25]

ballpark figure?

just curious what people are making doing this as a career...


Commission depends on:

-Collectors Salary
-What % the client gives to the agency for collecting. (Usually 30% of the collected amount)
- What the collectors Breakeven** is


Would work like this.

Collector makes $3000/mth base salary.
Collector collects $50,000 GROSS DOLLARS in a month. 30% goes to the agency. This ends up being $15,000 NET DOLLARS.

** Breakeven is where the agency starts making cash on you. Usually 2x your salary. Literally where the agency 'breaks even' with your employment.

Math is as follows.

Net $ Collected - breakeven = A

A x .20% = commission in collectors pocket.

EXAMPLE: $15,000 net collected - $6000 breakeven = $9,000

$9,000 x .20% = $1800commission in the collectors pocket.

Personally, I'll make $1k commission in a regular month.

Most seasoned collectors make $39k - $50k/year.
The top 10% make up to $80k/year.
The bottom 10% make $25k/year.

Basically, the collector makes 20% of any net dollar collected above and beyond their breakeven.

[Donomight25]

The bank would never allow that much to be taken out, especially to a member that is not established ( excellent credit history, income etc.) I would think there a protective measures in place, especially these days after the credit crisis.


You limit is your limit. You can take up to that amount off your line of credit, credit card ect. Limit is a limit for a reason.

If the bank gave you a $10k limit, and only allowed you to withdraw $8k, they breached their contract with you.

Bank gives you a limit. You can do what you like with it.

[chincer]

Thanks for all the info Donomight!

A dentist put me into collections for work he says he did that he never billed me for, it was 150$ or something. I asked the collection agency for a copy of the contract and haven't heard back for six months. This is in BC, so do you think that they have just put it on my credit report?

[Donomight25]

Thanks for all the info Donomight!

A dentist put me into collections for work he says he did that he never billed me for, it was 150$ or something. I asked the collection agency for a copy of the contract and haven't heard back for six months. This is in BC, so do you think that they have just put it on my credit report?

You can order a copy of your bureau, provided you have the right ID.

You can do this online, or over the phone. You can also mail them (free, and my suggestion) as there is no walk-in office for BC.

http://www.transunion.ca/ca/personal/consumersupport/contactus_en.page

Contact Trans Union there.

To answer your question: Yes. Doctors offices ect are most common on TU's.

[brian.gerson]

We bought a house and there was a rental hot water tank in it. We never signed a contract with the rental company, told them to remove the tank on the day we moved in, and when they didn't do this had it removed within 2 weeks. The company wants $4 for the tank rental and a $35 account setup fee. We don't want to pay them a thing.

The company is threatening collection action. Because they have no contract, can I get whatever derogatory report they might make to Equifax removed? Can I sue them if they make such a report?

[Donomight25]

We bought a house and there was a rental hot water tank in it. We never signed a contract with the rental company, told them to remove the tank on the day we moved in, and when they didn't do this had it removed within 2 weeks. The company wants $4 for the tank rental and a $35 account setup fee. We don't want to pay them a thing.

The company is threatening collection action. Because they have no contract, can I get whatever derogatory report they might make to Equifax removed? Can I sue them if they make such a report?

Depending on what province you live in, assuming ownership of a property includes everything on/in it.

That means you are assuming a contract with the rental company on day of possession, unless otherwise stated in the closing contract.

As for your bureau, no collection company with any brain puts a collection item on your bureau, as it costs about $35 to report it.

Don't worry. The equity you gained in the last few days pays for the mess-up.

[al_carrerra]

When your account is being finalized by the bank ie. closing, refinancing, sending to collections ect... you need this in writing. ESPECIALLY if they are balancing the account at $0 and closing it as fraud.

On the other hand, large conglomerate banks like this send the collection accounts as a batch of thousands. Yours might have been overlooked, forgotten about or maybe they couldn't recall it in time. Who knows...

What is the account reflecting now? Have they closed it? What does the collection agency say?

The account has been closed, we received a letter from the bank indicating a $0 balance and closed account. A collection agent called for about 2 weeks and was forwarded to voicemail (no one picked up the phone, we were on vacation) ..... It has been over 4 months and we haven't heard anything since.

[npinc]

You need to prove that the debt was not legit to win in a slander case. Doesn't happen very often. Last time I heard about an agency losing a case regarding slander was 2006.

You're right. If the AGENCY places the debt on the bureau, they can be sued. Only if the consumer can prove they don't owe the $$. Very hard to do.

Never been sued by anyone, collectors themselves are pretty protected when it comes to liability. Then again, the collector is working on behalf of the client, so the only real liability they have is to ensure we're talking to the right person.

Story time: Collector A called Mr. Smith. He turns out not to be home. Wife at the house takes a message. She asks what this is concerning. Collector A does the right thing and says he can't discuss it ect. Mrs Smith then tells collector that she is 65ish years old, they have been married for 40 years ect and that she handles the expenses, bills ect. Collector A says 'just tell him it's about the mortgage'.

Turns out that the Smiths mortgage was paid off sometime in the 80's and that the mortgage in collections was for MR SMITHS MISTRESS.

Collection agency paid the mortgage ($200,000+), damages against the marriage dissolving (TO BOTH PARTIES, unnamed damage but we think around $100,000 each) and court/lawyers fees ($20,000ish).

That was a biggy.

That story is awesome. :D Cracked me up. I can see it happening though.

The example I'm thinking of is an interesting one.

Party A rents a car. During the rental they are involved in an accident in which Party B is 100% at fault. The insurance company for the rental car agency tries to claim a deductible from Party A. The Insurance Rules state that if Party A is in an accident in which Party B is 100% at fault per the Rules, Party A will not be subject to a deductible.

Party A refuses to pay the deductible and threatens the insurance company AND the car rental agency with a lawsuit, citing said Rule. The insurance company ignores this and submits the "debt" to the collection agency. Party A sues the collection agency for libellous slander.

[MATT2256]

I'm not saying the same agency would call.

Might be some agency somewhere else in Canada, and like I said... who knows who had the phone number before you.


My favorite is when someone tells me they own that phone number. I have to laugh.. since the phone company owns the number. They just pay for the service.

I must disagree with this. Let's not argue semantics. You are right the party does not OWN the telephone number, but they are paying rent for the service. They have a right to dictate who can or can not call them. Having a telephone line you have an implied consent to allow anyone to call you. This implied consent never goes away, but you can dictate who can or can't call you once they call you and you give them notice. It is the same thing as security banning you from a mall. Officially the mall is private property with an implied invitation to the general public, but they do have a full legal right to prohibit anyone for almost any reason from entering their premises. As a creditor they have a legal right to be able to contact you. It is your right although to dictate by what means.

If you want the collection agency to stop calling you, send them a registered letter stating you want to only be contacted by mail and they have a legal obligation to stop calling you. Provided you indeed have a mailing address. If they fail to honour your legal right to not be contacted by telephone, they are in breach of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and can be fined.

Unfortunately because of the reputation these places have, they could say the registered letter you sent was just a blank page. Go to the collection agency's website and send them a email that you are sending a registered letter stating you only wish to be contacted by regular mail. If they have a email address on their website it is understood legally that this is a inbox that is checked regularly. Email is much harder to dispute. It is the same thing as signing up for a online service which they only send estatements to your email address, because you provided them with a email address, it is understood that you regularly check it. If for some reason you abandon that email address and the company sends you a email stating their prices will increase 60 days from now and you do not check it, cancel their service, or reply to it, it is considered an acceptance. It is no different with businesses. If the email address is listed there, they are providing a means for the public to contact them. The law regarding this works both ways, not just against you.

If you have the ability to record calls, do it. Canada has a law that at least one party of a telephone call must know this call is being recorded. In this case you know the call is being recorded. So this is sufficient. The only things you would need to ask their permission to record this call is if you were discussing things such as account numbers, SIN numbers, or any extremely private information. But in this case the information being discussed is your personal information, so you do not have to inform them. Tell them that you do not want to be contacted by telephone and provide them a mailing address they can reach you. Also state you sent them a email to address XXXX and you also sent a registered letter with the same information and request. Make sure in this call you mention dates of emails/registered letters sent, and mention the current date now.

Even without the $200 cancellation fee, $1100 seems about right. Depending on the contract Telus had with the collections agencies, the agency could be charging telus per phone call, letter sent out and placing things on your bureau ect.

2 years of a $600 debt in collections ending up at $1100 sounds about right to me.


They prob won't sue you. Then again, it is Telus.

I disagree to a point about this as well. The fact the debt went so high is likely because of interest fees and late payments. A debt collector can not add additional charges for the cost of contacting you. It can only be the original debt, late payments, interest rate, etc. Please read over the very fine print of your Telus contract. Generally a creditor can not charge the debtor for fees regarding outsourcing to a collection agency to collect on the debt. It is considered a cost of doing business. It is understood that some customers will default on their obligations and if they want to persue an alternative out of court to collect the money owed, it is their choice to do so. Not yours. Cost of going to court however, that is different. Again please read over the fine print of the Telus contract for any mention of them passing on collection fees to you if you should default.

In fact a debt collector can not communicate you by any means in which the debtor will incur charges. Generally this applies to almost any cellular phone. So if they are calling your cellphone, inform them this is a cellphone and do not call here again as it is against the law. If they continue to call, report them. If they still continue to call, take them to court for damages.

Please refer to the Office of Consumer Affairs website, #9;


http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/oca-bc.nsf/eng/ca01786.html

9. Collecting More Than Is Owed
Notwithstanding any agreement to the contrary between a debtor and a creditor, any charges made or incurred by a collection agency or made or incurred by a creditor in employing a collection agency to collect the debt shall be deemed not to be a part of the amount owing by the debtor and shall not be recoverable by the creditor or by the collection agency acting on behalf of the creditor.

[Transatlantique]

"9. Collecting More Than Is Owed
Notwithstanding any agreement to the contrary between a debtor and a creditor, any charges made or incurred by a collection agency or made or incurred by a creditor in employing a collection agency to collect the debt shall be deemed not to be a part of the amount owing by the debtor and shall not be recoverable by the creditor or by the collection agency acting on behalf of the creditor."

Interest and late fees are part of the debt owed. The collection agency probably cant add say a "stamp surcharge" or "collection fee", but Telus is allowed to add interest and late payment fees on overdue accounts the same way a credit card can. I dont think you've got your logic correct here.

[MATT2256]

"9. Collecting More Than Is Owed
Notwithstanding any agreement to the contrary between a debtor and a creditor, any charges made or incurred by a collection agency or made or incurred by a creditor in employing a collection agency to collect the debt shall be deemed not to be a part of the amount owing by the debtor and shall not be recoverable by the creditor or by the collection agency acting on behalf of the creditor."

Interest and late fees are part of the debt owed. The collection agency probably cant add say a "stamp surcharge" or "collection fee", but Telus is allowed to add interest and late payment fees on overdue accounts the same way a credit card can. I dont think you've got your logic correct here.

Maybe there was a misunderstanding. I never said they can't add those charges. I said generally the fee they pay the collection agency to recover the debt can't be passed on to the debtor. So maybe you just misunderstood me. Of course "late fees" "interest charges" etc can be charged. So it seems we agree. :)

[Donomight25]

I must disagree with this. Let's not argue semantics. You are right the party does not OWN the telephone number, but they are paying rent for the service. They have a right to dictate who can or can not call them. Having a telephone line you have an implied consent to allow anyone to call you. This implied consent never goes away, but you can dictate who can or can't call you once they call you and you give them notice. It is the same thing as security banning you from a mall. Officially the mall is private property with an implied invitation to the general public, but they do have a full legal right to prohibit anyone for almost any reason from entering their premises. As a creditor they have a legal right to be able to contact you. It is your right although to dictate by what means.
I call under the collection act. I am covered no matter who I call. You're splitting hairs now.

If you want the collection agency to stop calling you, send them a registered letter stating you want to only be contacted by mail and they have a legal obligation to stop calling you. Provided you indeed have a mailing address. If they fail to honour your legal right to not be contacted by telephone, they are in breach of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and can be fined.

Wrong. You don't need to send a registered letter. Just tell them the comsumer doesn't live there. If they continue to call, then send a letter and follow up.


Tell them that you do not want to be contacted by telephone and provide them a mailing address they can reach you. Also state you sent them a email to address XXXX and you also sent a registered letter with the same information and request. Make sure in this call you mention dates of emails/registered letters sent, and mention the current date now.]

This was covered in page 2 somewhere. Please ensure to keep up with the thread.




I disagree to a point about this as well. The fact the debt went so high is likely because of interest fees and late payments. A debt collector can not add additional charges for the cost of contacting you. It can only be the original debt, late payments, interest rate, etc. Please read over the very fine print of your Telus contract. Generally a creditor can not charge the debtor for fees regarding outsourcing to a collection agency to collect on the debt.

Wrong.

A collector can't. A collection agency can lump whatever service fees they want onto a debt, as per the contract with the original creditor. Sometimes this is done when the account reaches a 3rd and 4th agency.

Telus's contract with you is not the same contract they have with an agency. The contract with the consumer pretty much says that when sent/in collections, fees are added as per the contract with us.


In fact a debt collector can not communicate you by any means in which the debtor will incur charges. Generally this applies to almost any cellular phone.

Wrong again. I can attempt to call someones cell, it's up to them if they puch that green button or not.

A phone company charges you for your home phone... so I can't call them there?

A phone company charges for internet use... so I can't email a consumer?

A phone company charges for a fax line... I can't send a balance letter to their verified fax number?

So if they are calling your cellphone, inform them this is a cellphone and do not call here again as it is against the law. If they continue to call, report them. If they still continue to call, take them to court for damages.

Have fun trying to prove that its the agency calling. Most call from a blkd number. Contacting the police won't work. It's considered a civil matter, and the collector calls under the collection act. Contacting the phone company won't work. They won't release who's calling from blkd num unless it's apolice matter.

This was covered on page 3. Please ensure were keeping up with the thread.

[delavoie]

If anyone is being bothered by telemarketers or collection agency's, Panasonic has new cordless phones that have a call block feature. No monthly fees needed, it's all done on the phone.
It works great.. i bought some 2 months ago.. and when they call i add them to the block list, and now when they call they get a busy signal.

[Donomight25]

Maybe there was a misunderstanding. I never said they can't add those charges. I said generally the fee they pay the collection agency to recover the debt can't be passed on to the debtor. So maybe you just misunderstood me. Of course "late fees" "interest charges" etc can be charged. So it seems we agree. :)

Generally, unless the contract states otherwise..

Which is usually the case. As I said, earlier, the contract with the consumer and the contract with the collection agency are 2 different things.

[Donomight25]

If anyone is being bothered by telemarketers or collection agency's, Panasonic has new cordless phones that have a call block feature. No monthly fees needed, it's all done on the phone.
It works great.. i bought some 2 months ago.. and when they call i add them to the block list, and now when they call they get a busy signal.

Can't block a private/withheld number.

I also have several trunk lines I can access to avoid your call-block feature.

Sorry :D

[liorsyncro]

Very informative topic!

I'm surprised (or perhaps not) at the lack of oversight on the government level. There are laws in place to limit bad behavior but in the pursuit of meeting targets these laws seem quite easy to circumvent.

[Donomight25]

Very informative topic!

I'm surprised (or perhaps not) at the lack of oversight on the government level. There are laws in place to limit bad behavior but in the pursuit of meeting targets these laws seem quite easy to circumvent.

Most laws are easy to circumnavigate... just don't get caught.

[Donomight25]

Bup.

[Donomight25]

Up.

[masalma]

How long does a "Collection Accounts: Delinquent accounts sent for recovery" stay on the Transunion credit report?

And how long do hard hits stay on both equifax and transunion?


I just ordered both credit reports and scores from Equifax and Transunion.

Equifax shows 751 score
Transunion shows 661 score


On the transunion there is an old Visa card that was paid off and closed back in 2004 I believe but the record states

Opened: 08/01/1998
Reported: 11/29/2007
Pay status: Paid as Agreed

And shows a bunch of red squares with 120 under the record, this account came off my equifax after a few years it was paid off, but still on transunion, any way to get rid of it?

Nas

[cgtlky]

If your debt is over the stature of limitation and you did not pay up until this day, does the collection agency/creditor can still sued you?

[Acrossenger]

I have someone that owns me some money and I have a properly signed contract. Can I place this person on collection? How do I go about doing this?

[liorsyncro]

If your debt is over the stature of limitation and you did not pay up until this day, does the collection agency/creditor can still sued you?
I think I can answer this: the answer is no. They can chase you for the amount, but they can't sue you and obviously you don't have to pay. They can, however, put a collections note on your credit bureau but that's it.

[isyed]

Thanks soo much for your inputs. Very Helpful.

I have 2 different situations i was hoping to get help with:

A) I had a tenant who owed me about $2500 and left without paying. I tried for months to get her to pay but no response. Contacted Collection Agency. They tried for a few months as well and no response. The Tenant did contact me and sent me $100 directly and mentioned that she would send the rest of the money as well but alas nothing yet. The Collection Agency told me that her Credit file had the collection notice on it for both Equifax and Transunion. When i asked for confirmation for this they did not give me any as they said they could not and that i had to take their word for it.

I am contemplating taking this matter to court. This issue started from November last year so i have some time to pursue this in court. I don't have her current address or other information. I could do skip tracing to get that information and then proceed in court myself. The collection agency offered to do this for $500. They would still get 30% of any collection as well.

What would be the best way to go about this in your opinion?

B) I have another Small claims court issue which has been put aside on motion couple times and has been going on for a year now. I've gone the Garnishment route and have garnished some amount which is with the courts. If i were to get more monies awarded then what is garnished, can i go through a collection agency to retrieve this money? Or should i do the collection myself by going through examination hearing?

[Donomight25]

How long does a "Collection Accounts: Delinquent accounts sent for recovery" stay on the Transunion credit report?

And how long do hard hits stay on both equifax and transunion?


I just ordered both credit reports and scores from Equifax and Transunion.

Equifax shows 751 score
Transunion shows 661 score


On the transunion there is an old Visa card that was paid off and closed back in 2004 I believe but the record states

Opened: 08/01/1998
Reported: 11/29/2007
Pay status: Paid as Agreed

And shows a bunch of red squares with 120 under the record, this account came off my equifax after a few years it was paid off, but still on transunion, any way to get rid of it?

Nas

Reported was 2007. It falls off in 2013.

[Donomight25]

If your debt is over the stature of limitation and you did not pay up until this day, does the collection agency/creditor can still sued you?

No.

[Donomight25]

I have someone that owns me some money and I have a properly signed contract. Can I place this person on collection? How do I go about doing this?

Yes.

Call a collection agency. They won't take a single account, but GL.

[Donomight25]

A) I had a tenant who owed me about $2500 and left without paying. I tried for months to get her to pay but no response. Contacted Collection Agency. They tried for a few months as well and no response. The Tenant did contact me and sent me $100 directly and mentioned that she would send the rest of the money as well but alas nothing yet. The Collection Agency told me that her Credit file had the collection notice on it for both Equifax and Transunion. When i asked for confirmation for this they did not give me any as they said they could not and that i had to take their word for it.

I am contemplating taking this matter to court. This issue started from November last year so i have some time to pursue this in court. I don't have her current address or other information. I could do skip tracing to get that information and then proceed in court myself. The collection agency offered to do this for $500. They would still get 30% of any collection as well.

What would be the best way to go about this in your opinion??

If your contract with said collection agency stipulates placing this on their bureau, it's there.

Suing them does no good unless you know they have $$. It ruins the credit, but renters who don't pay their actual rent prob. don't pay for thier credit either.


B) I have another Small claims court issue which has been put aside on motion couple times and has been going on for a year now. I've gone the Garnishment route and have garnished some amount which is with the courts. If i were to get more monies awarded then what is garnished, can i go through a collection agency to retrieve this money? Or should i do the collection myself by going through examination hearing?

Continue with the garneshee if you're awarded more $$. Try not to use collection agencies. They usually do no good for landlord/tenant issues.

[isyed]

If your contract with said collection agency stipulates placing this on their bureau, it's there.

Suing them does no good unless you know they have $$. It ruins the credit, but renters who don't pay their actual rent prob. don't pay for thier credit either.




Continue with the garneshee if you're awarded more $$. Try not to use collection agencies. They usually do no good for landlord/tenant issues.

Thanks again. For the first scenario i could also find out where they work and Garnish their pay could i not?

Also the second scenario was not a landlord tenant issue. It was more a wedding decoration contract gone bad.

Thanks again.

[Donomight25]

Thanks again. For the first scenario i could also find out where they work and Garnish their pay could i not?

Also the second scenario was not a landlord tenant issue. It was more a wedding decoration contract gone bad.

Thanks again.

No problem.


Yes, find where they work and garneshee away.

[Donomight25]

Up.

[Donomight25]

up.

[martyreg]

Great thread.
In your experience, have things ever boiled over to the point of violence?

[Donomight25]

Great thread.
In your experience, have things ever boiled over to the point of violence?

Not in my personal experience.


I know of collectors taking peoples numbers and people getting a nasty wake-up call at 3am. Not nice, especially when you can't track the collector, agency or even thenumber the collector is prank calling from.

(They usually use a phone card and call from a payphone after a night of heavy drinking/smoking ect)

[Donomight25]

Keep em' coming! Keep me busy at work!

[adamtheman]

What is the suicide rate among collection agents?

[Donomight25]

What is the suicide rate among collection agents?

Pathetic question.

Then again, this question comes from someone who thinks that a co-signer isn't responsible for the credit they signed for.

(COBO IS 100% RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT THEY SIGNED FOR...THATS WHY THEIR A 'CO'-SIGNOR)


Dumb dumb.

[masalma]

^ lol


Just curious, say you have an outstanding debt and it goes to collections, for example a credit card that went into default, and sold to a collection agency, now the collection agency will not purchase the account at face value, what is the normal they would pay for an account percentage wise, or do they just collect and get a cut.

I am just wondering because I was told in the past that for example if you have a $1000 defaulted, someone could actually make a deal with the collection agency to pay like 500-600 and call it even? Any truth to that?

Nas

p.s. Good advice thanx for your input.

[rebjorne]

My question: I got a bill from DHL for customs fees that had a typo on it - My last name was spelled wrong, and one letter in my street address was also wrong, though the got the number and postal code correct.

The amount was less than $50 yet DHL still sent it to a collections agency, but I haven't paid it. What would be the consequences of not paying it? Since its such a small amount would they write it off? Would this affect my credit score, even though my name and and address was spelled wrong?

[Donomight25]

^ lol


Just curious, say you have an outstanding debt and it goes to collections, for example a credit card that went into default, and sold to a collection agency, now the collection agency will not purchase the account at face value, what is the normal they would pay for an account percentage wise, or do they just collect and get a cut.

I am just wondering because I was told in the past that for example if you have a $1000 defaulted, someone could actually make a deal with the collection agency to pay like 500-600 and call it even? Any truth to that?

Nas

p.s. Good advice thanx for your input.


Debts are not sold. The agency acts on behalf of the creditor.

The agency usually takes 30% of the collected total.

Settlements are what collectors look for. Always start with an offer to the collector and see where they sit. MOST creditors offer between 70%-85% for a settlement. Anything under that, count yourself lucky.

[Donomight25]

My question: I got a bill from DHL for customs fees that had a typo on it - My last name was spelled wrong, and one letter in my street address was also wrong, though the got the number and postal code correct.

The amount was less than $50 yet DHL still sent it to a collections agency, but I haven't paid it. What would be the consequences of not paying it? Since its such a small amount would they write it off? Would this affect my credit score, even though my name and and address was spelled wrong?

DHL and other companies that have provided a service for you always place things like this on your bureau.

Doctors offices, Blockbuster, Rogers, pharmacies ect.

Small $ amts like that effect your score like a $10k account would, especially for services rendered.

[rebjorne]

DHL and other companies that have provided a service for you always place things like this on your bureau.

Doctors offices, Blockbuster, Rogers, pharmacies ect.

Small $ amts like that effect your score like a $10k account would, especially for services rendered.

Thanks for the prompt reply. But does this happen even if they got my last name wrong?

[Donomight25]

Thanks for the prompt reply. But does this happen even if they got my last name wrong?

If they got the name wrong, don't worry about your credit.

Pull a Consumer Disclosure (meaning obtain a copy of your own bureau) and continue to do this bi-yearly. IT only helps and self-educates about credit.

[bilibulu]

Small $ amts like that effect your score like a $10k account would, especially for services rendered.

I don't agree. There has been two incidences that I owed people money and I didn't pay (Bell and another telecomm company) and they sent me to collections and they tried to nail my credit. When I applied for a mortgage for one of my rental properties, the bank manager told me that he saw those two bad debts but he said he was going to ignore them because of my good credit with their bank!!;)

So I'm not really afraid of owing people money!:twisted:

[Donomight25]

I don't agree. There has been two incidences that I owed people money and I didn't pay (Bell and another telecomm company) and they sent me to collections and they tried to nail my credit. When I applied for a mortgage for one of my rental properties, the bank manager told me that he saw those two bad debts but he said he was going to ignore them because of my good credit with their bank!!;)

So I'm not really afraid of owing people money!:twisted:

They clearly did nail your credit with a collection item because your bank referenced it, but it's at the lenders discretion. You clearly have a good standing with the bank that wrote that mortgage.

Devils Advocate;

You walk into a financial institution. You inquire about a mortgage. I look at your credit. You can't pay for services rendered?

Up your interest rate to reflect the risk the creditor is taking.


There are 19378346283623783463278346237633x other variables that are taken into account when writing a loan, LOC, mortgage, CC etc.



Where does this person live? Work?
How much $$ do they make?
What the debt ratio? What the likelyhood of the consumer defaulting?
Any security?
Credit history?
Employment history?
What does the consumer want to do with the $$?
Will the consumer close the acct early and pay it off?

Those are just the tip of the iceburg.

[Ailliro]

I have collection account of Bay department store and the collection agency was GROUPE ARO. I paid the collection account from 2004 in 2007 but the collection agency would not remove it from my Equifax report. Is there a way to convince to remove it before December 2010 (the end of six year reporting peiod) ?

[Donomight25]

I have collection account of Bay department store and the collection agency was GROUPE ARO. I paid the collection account from 2004 in 2007 but the collection agency would not remove it from my Equifax report. Is there a way to convince to remove it before December 2010 (the end of six year reporting peiod) ?

Fax Equifax/Trans Union a copy of the RELEASE LETTER the collection company sent you.

If you have no RELEASE LETTER, get one. If they want more $$, you didn't settle it.

Please let me know what happens. I used to work for ARO in Hamilton before they moved to Markham. Not a very reliable company.

[M08006899]

What should I do in this situation?

Owed Bell $109.15, paid in full February 24th (few days overdue). March 3rd received a letter from Total Credit Recovery asking for payment, sent back a letter by mail and fax stating that it was paid and asking for all communications to be in writing. Heard nothing, checked bank statement and saw cheque was cashed February 25th.
Yesterday received a phone call from D and A Collections about this balance. Told the agent that I paid it in full on February 24th and that the cancelled cheque is in my possession and I can send him a copy of it. He said to either pay it by 4 pm Friday or to get a release form from Bell (they need to send it to me and I send it to D and A) and to send it by 4 pm Friday (Friday = Today). I e-mailed him a copy of the canceled cheque, got a response back saying that it confirms that it has, indeed, been paid in full. Phoned Bell and asked if they can send a release form to D and A, they said they will in the afternoon. Around 3 pm get an e-mail from D and A, they received an update from Bell that it has not been paid.

I e-mailed a copy of the cancelled cheque to Bell Mobility Investigations as instructed by the Bell A/R rep. but have not received a response.

[Donomight25]

What should I do in this situation?

Owed Bell $109.15, paid in full February 24th (few days overdue). March 3rd received a letter from Total Credit Recovery asking for payment, sent back a letter by mail and fax stating that it was paid and asking for all communications to be in writing. Heard nothing, checked bank statement and saw cheque was cashed February 25th.
Yesterday received a phone call from D and A Collections about this balance. Told the agent that I paid it in full on February 24th and that the cancelled cheque is in my possession and I can send him a copy of it. He said to either pay it by 4 pm Friday or to get a release form from Bell (they need to send it to me and I send it to D and A) and to send it by 4 pm Friday (Friday = Today). I e-mailed him a copy of the canceled cheque, got a response back saying that it confirms that it has, indeed, been paid in full. Phoned Bell and asked if they can send a release form to D and A, they said they will in the afternoon. Around 3 pm get an e-mail from D and A, they received an update from Bell that it has not been paid.

I e-mailed a copy of the cancelled cheque to Bell Mobility Investigations as instructed by the Bell A/R rep. but have not received a response.

Hold on a sec... cancelled cheque? If you paid this account, then cencelled the cheque, the account is still outstanding.




Maybe I missed something.





NONETHELESS;

If this was paid on the 24th:
- get a copy of your cheque they cashed and a BANK STATEMENT
- call the Investigations dept at Bell. Tell the person you want to spk to a manager/super etc.
- get a fax num
- fax copy of cheque and bank statement showing PIF
- GET A COPY OF THE FAX TRANSMISSION BEING SUCCESSFUL.
- Call back. Speak to aforementioned mngr/supr. Tell them you sent it.
- GET WHATEVER THEY TELL YOU IN WRITING.
- Send to collection company AND TELL THEM TO FAX YOU THE CLOSURE IN WRITING.

A lot of steps for such a little account, I know.

OR you could just let it sit on your credit.

[YYC27]

Hold on a sec... cancelled cheque? If you paid this account, then cencelled the cheque, the account is still outstanding.

The cancelled cheque is what you get back from the bank after it's gone through the clearing process.

[Donomight25]

The cancelled cheque is what you get back from the bank after it's gone through the clearing process.

The cheque is considered 'countered'.

One bank challeneges another bank for funds from an account via cheque.
The bank issuing the cheque 'counters' the other, with funds.

'Countered'

[Ailliro]

Fax Equifax/Trans Union a copy of the RELEASE LETTER the collection company sent you.

If you have no RELEASE LETTER, get one. If they want more $$, you didn't settle it.

Please let me know what happens. I used to work for ARO in Hamilton before they moved to Markham. Not a very reliable company.

I have the release letter from January 2007. I paid them in full rather than making a deal for lower amount. I sent the copies of the release letter from ARO to Trans Union and Equifax. Trans Union removed the account but Equifax contacted ARO and they confirmed the account. I talked to ARO VP in Vancouver and explained the situation but he just wouldn't budge and said that it is legitimate entry in Equifax. While Equifax says ARO has confirmed the account. I want to know how to convince Equifax to remove the entry. Trans Union was more cooperative.

[Bookpreviews]

Interesting info, learning a lot...

I just have a story to add.

The ontario gov't,one departement was on strike and still calling me to say I owed them $100 when I did not.
Same group, decides to cancel my health insurance or additional insurance because of this.
I sent a fax/letter that statedI did not owe and that I would be asking or sueing for my health insurance expenses that were up to $2,500 for 3 months that i was not supposed to pay for and was supposedto be covered (wasa prescription/dental/vision plan...).

Anyways,
ended up going through provincial mediation, represented myself and won.
The people they sent from the province were so disorganized and were missing a bunch of documents that I had myself...geeezz:lol:

In the end I gotmy money back. ;)
and recently hadto deal with the same group or government insurance for dental stuff and now a different person from the same dept is saying they do not give people reimbursments...when they did to me.
So, now the same people are denying they paid me back,lol.
Very funny when I have documents and check stubs here proving it.

Notsure if this is a common situation or not....

[Donomight25]

I have the release letter from January 2007. I paid them in full rather than making a deal for lower amount. I sent the copies of the release letter from ARO to Trans Union and Equifax. Trans Union removed the account but Equifax contacted ARO and they confirmed the account. I talked to ARO VP in Vancouver and explained the situation but he just wouldn't budge and said that it is legitimate entry in Equifax. While Equifax says ARO has confirmed the account. I want to know how to convince Equifax to remove the entry. Trans Union was more cooperative.


Sounds like this is the situation.

ARO rptd the debt on TRANS UNION and EQUIFAX months/years apart. There is a time limit this report stays on your bureau for.

Equifax will change the account on their reports to reflect PAID IN FULL, but will not remove the collection item until the 6yr limit.


This is what you need to do;

Send Equifax a REGISTERED LETTER AND A FAX including your release letter and a copy of your TRANS UNION REPORT. 60 days later, pull a copy of your TRANS UNION and EQUIFAX and see if the account reflects a PAID IN FULL STATUS.

If they do, you're in luck. If it's been totally removed, even luckier.

If it doesn't show paid, and is still on there, sue Equifax for Lible Slander.

You'll win. TRUST me.

[Donomight25]

Interesting info, learning a lot...

I just have a story to add.

The ontario gov't,one departement was on strike and still calling me to say I owed them $100 when I did not.
Same group, decides to cancel my health insurance or additional insurance because of this.
I sent a fax/letter that statedI did not owe and that I would be asking or sueing for my health insurance expenses that were up to $2,500 for 3 months that i was not supposed to pay for and was supposedto be covered (wasa prescription/dental/vision plan...).

Anyways,
ended up going through provincial mediation, represented myself and won.
The people they sent from the province were so disorganized and were missing a bunch of documents that I had myself...geeezz:lol:

In the end I gotmy money back. ;)
and recently hadto deal with the same group or government insurance for dental stuff and now a different person from the same dept is saying they do not give people reimbursments...when they did to me.
So, now the same people are denying they paid me back,lol.
Very funny when I have documents and check stubs here proving it.

Notsure if this is a common situation or not....

Fighting and suing an insurance company is very common.

Nice job winning.

[liorsyncro]

I don't agree. There has been two incidences that I owed people money and I didn't pay (Bell and another telecomm company) and they sent me to collections and they tried to nail my credit. When I applied for a mortgage for one of my rental properties, the bank manager told me that he saw those two bad debts but he said he was going to ignore them because of my good credit with their bank!!;)

So I'm not really afraid of owing people money!:twisted:
Agreed. It depends on the debt and the amount. I've had people secure a prime mortgage with collection blemishes from Rogers, Telus, Bell, Enbridge, etc. One underwriter actually laughed when we talked about Rogers and said that they refer almost everybody to collection even if an account is in dispute. Under most circumstances they'll want an explanation regarding the debt but such collection notes have not stopped people from getting major financing like mortgages and LOCs. But that's because it's equity lending. Credit card criteria might be a little tougher, which leads me to the next question: how did Amex give you that Centurion? :twisted:

[liorsyncro]

I have a collections question:

Can collection agencies change the rating on a revolving trade line?

The reason I ask is sometimes I have people who are in collections and one advice a lot of debt "experts" (if you can call them that) give them is pay the debt in payments and after a few months have the collection agency change the trade line, say from an R9 to an R5. I was under the assumption that you can't revert an R9.

[M08006899]

The cheque is considered 'countered'.

One bank challeneges another bank for funds from an account via cheque.
The bank issuing the cheque 'counters' the other, with funds.

'Countered'
"Once a cheque is approved and all appropriate accounts involved have been credited, the cheque is stamped with some kind of cancellation mark, such as a "paid" stamp. The cheque is now a cancelled cheque. Cancelled cheques are placed in the account holder's file. The account holder can request a copy of a cancelled cheque as proof of a payment"

Same thing as why you need to Cancel a GO Transit 2 or 10 ride ticket before each use.

[Donomight25]

Agreed. It depends on the debt and the amount. I've had people secure a prime mortgage with collection blemishes from Rogers, Telus, Bell, Enbridge, etc. One underwriter actually laughed when we talked about Rogers and said that they refer almost everybody to collection even if an account is in dispute. Under most circumstances they'll want an explanation regarding the debt but such collection notes have not stopped people from getting major financing like mortgages and LOCs. But that's because it's equity lending. Credit card criteria might be a little tougher, which leads me to the next question: how did Amex give you that Centurion? :twisted:

The mortgage, int% etc all depend on the issuing bank/lender.

Some lenders can be sticklers and MAKE you pay the collection items when signing a PLOC or mortgage - others don't care.

[Donomight25]

I have a collections question:

Can collection agencies change the rating on a revolving trade line?

The reason I ask is sometimes I have people who are in collections and one advice a lot of debt "experts" (if you can call them that) give them is pay the debt in payments and after a few months have the collection agency change the trade line, say from an R9 to an R5. I was under the assumption that you can't revert an R9.

Cannot change the trade rating UNLESS the debt is paid, and only by the client. The trade item will always disappear before the collection item does.

The rating will not change from R9, but the staus will reflect paid, settled, repo etc.

[waiting]

What is the suicide rate among collection agents?

Too funny! :D

[liorsyncro]

Cannot change the trade rating UNLESS the debt is paid, and only by the client. The trade item will always disappear before the collection item does.

The rating will not change from R9, but the staus will reflect paid, settled, repo etc.
Yeah that's what I thought.... R9 it means written off. So basically the collection is purely involved with collecting the debt and taking their cut. Everything else has to be handled with your client/creditor.

Regarding the collection trade lines, for the most part minor problems are a non-issue with most non-bank lenders, but each case in examined on a case by case basis.

[Ailliro]

Sounds like this is the situation.

ARO rptd the debt on TRANS UNION and EQUIFAX months/years apart. There is a time limit this report stays on your bureau for.

Equifax will change the account on their reports to reflect PAID IN FULL, but will not remove the collection item until the 6yr limit.


This is what you need to do;

Send Equifax a REGISTERED LETTER AND A FAX including your release letter and a copy of your TRANS UNION REPORT. 60 days later, pull a copy of your TRANS UNION and EQUIFAX and see if the account reflects a PAID IN FULL STATUS.

If they do, you're in luck. If it's been totally removed, even luckier.

If it doesn't show paid, and is still on there, sue Equifax for Lible Slander.

You'll win. TRUST me.

I checked Equifax report and the entry is

Date Assigned: 2005-01
Account Number: xxxxx
Collection Agency: AGE RECOU OGILVIE
Reason: Paid
Amount: $1,666.00
BalanceAmount: $0.00
Date of Last Payment: 2004-12
Date Paid: 2007-01

When will it drop from the credit report ?

[sidshock]

SO here is a funny situation, and I dunno if you can help.
back in 2002/2003, I received a check for my car which I sold online.
It was an RBC cheque, and I went to cash it at an RBC branch. I even told the guy, if this is a non cert. cheque to HOLD it until it clears, as I got this cheque in the mail.
Guy rang up the account on the cheque, said the funds are there. ( $10,000 )
and I can come tomorrow morning and get the cash. I said cool. Off I went. Came in the morn. got the $10K. Sat some guy was supposed to come and get my car and the difference of the cheque. So yes people, this is the well known nigerian scam! :)
Guy came by my place on Sat and got the difference. 6K or so, and said someone tomorrow will come to pickup the car.
So Sun rolls around, no one came. I didn't care, I had my $$, etc....
Mon rolls around, I turn my cell back on, and check my msg's. Sure enough, I have a msg from RBC to come in and talk to them. I go in 48hrs or so later, don't fully remember. So I get grilled, and am told to pay back the $$ asap. I tell them, uhhh.. it's gone. My car was worth about 2K, to get 4K was a blessing. And the 6K is gone to the guy that came over for the cash difference. They say GIVE US THE 4K right now. I say, no, a good chunk is already gone to other debt I had. Reason for selling the car. I have about 1K left. They say, well, SELL your car for 4K again, and give us the 1K and then pay us the 5K. I explained the real value of my car with 340K's btw, and that if they want to buy it for 4K it's theirs! Finally, I got fed up and said look. I will pay you monthly $50 bucks until it is paid off with NO interest owing on the amount. Considering I was making 300 bux a week after tax at the time, I felt it fair. I also said, look, I told YOUR teller to MAKE SURE THE CHEQUE was good. To HOLD IT AS LONG AS HE NEEDS for it to clear, since I do not know the person I am dealing with and I do NOT want any bouncing cheques. The teller agreed. I even said to PULL THE VIDEO since I know there was a camera on me. I could see it, that will confirm everything. And to even bring the teller IN so I can re-act the scene for them as to how adament I was on this cheque clearing first before being cashed and the teller agreed to my request and held it. And he said all he needed was a day. Anyways, they didn't care about that and said $50 a month is unacceptable, and they want all their money NOW. So I got up and left. I think they called me a couple months later saying they would agree to 500 or so a month. I said no, $50 is my limit! That was it.
So I dunno if this story was interesting for you. I hope so!
Here is my question :)
Last I checked, about 3 yrs ago, it was still on my transunion.
I declared bankruptcy in 2004 and was discharged in FEB 2005. Will this fall off with the bankruptcy? Is it considered fraud and stay on?
If they sue me, will I be screwed? Esp after I told them to NOT give me the cash until all is cleared and good with that cheque.
If it is STILL on my Transunion, what can I do to have it removed?
Will I ever be able to bank with RBC? I refuse to pay them 10g's for their mistake.

[Sanchez]

The cheque is considered 'countered'.

One bank challeneges another bank for funds from an account via cheque.
The bank issuing the cheque 'counters' the other, with funds.

'Countered'

YYC27 and the original poster is correct. Of 7 of the first 8 links (excluding Beck song lyrics) for canceled check on google refer to the normal cancellation process that occurs when a check is cashed legitimately. The other link in the top 8, which supports your naming, is a poorly titled wikihow link which conflates stopping payment on a cheque for canceling it. I've submitted a correction to wikihow.

[Donomight25]

i checked equifax report and the entry is

date assigned: 2005-01
account number: Xxxxx
collection agency: Age recou ogilvie
reason: Paid
amount: $1,666.00
balanceamount: $0.00
date of last payment: 2004-12
date paid: 2007-01

when will it drop from the credit report ?

2013.

[Donomight25]

SO here is a funny situation, and I dunno if you can help.
back in 2002/2003, I received a check for my car which I sold online.
It was an RBC cheque, and I went to cash it at an RBC branch. I even told the guy, if this is a non cert. cheque to HOLD it until it clears, as I got this cheque in the mail.
Guy rang up the account on the cheque, said the funds are there. ( $10,000 )
and I can come tomorrow morning and get the cash. I said cool. Off I went. Came in the morn. got the $10K. Sat some guy was supposed to come and get my car and the difference of the cheque. So yes people, this is the well known nigerian scam! :)
Guy came by my place on Sat and got the difference. 6K or so, and said someone tomorrow will come to pickup the car.
So Sun rolls around, no one came. I didn't care, I had my $$, etc....
Mon rolls around, I turn my cell back on, and check my msg's. Sure enough, I have a msg from RBC to come in and talk to them. I go in 48hrs or so later, don't fully remember. So I get grilled, and am told to pay back the $$ asap. I tell them, uhhh.. it's gone. My car was worth about 2K, to get 4K was a blessing. And the 6K is gone to the guy that came over for the cash difference. They say GIVE US THE 4K right now. I say, no, a good chunk is already gone to other debt I had. Reason for selling the car. I have about 1K left. They say, well, SELL your car for 4K again, and give us the 1K and then pay us the 5K. I explained the real value of my car with 340K's btw, and that if they want to buy it for 4K it's theirs! Finally, I got fed up and said look. I will pay you monthly $50 bucks until it is paid off with NO interest owing on the amount. Considering I was making 300 bux a week after tax at the time, I felt it fair. I also said, look, I told YOUR teller to MAKE SURE THE CHEQUE was good. To HOLD IT AS LONG AS HE NEEDS for it to clear, since I do not know the person I am dealing with and I do NOT want any bouncing cheques. The teller agreed. I even said to PULL THE VIDEO since I know there was a camera on me. I could see it, that will confirm everything. And to even bring the teller IN so I can re-act the scene for them as to how adament I was on this cheque clearing first before being cashed and the teller agreed to my request and held it. And he said all he needed was a day. Anyways, they didn't care about that and said $50 a month is unacceptable, and they want all their money NOW. So I got up and left. I think they called me a couple months later saying they would agree to 500 or so a month. I said no, $50 is my limit! That was it.
So I dunno if this story was interesting for you. I hope so!
Here is my question :)
Last I checked, about 3 yrs ago, it was still on my transunion.
I declared bankruptcy in 2004 and was discharged in FEB 2005. Will this fall off with the bankruptcy? Is it considered fraud and stay on?
If they sue me, will I be screwed? Esp after I told them to NOT give me the cash until all is cleared and good with that cheque.
If it is STILL on my Transunion, what can I do to have it removed?
Will I ever be able to bank with RBC? I refuse to pay them 10g's for their mistake.

The banko covered the account and will fall off when the banko does (7 years post discharge).

As for owing the bank the $$ - your contract with the bank stipulates that YOU ARE PERSONALLY responsible for the account, cheques you deposit etc.


The teller may have processed it and showed you that the funds were available, but as for them HOLDING it, it came from an RBC. It only takes a day or 2 to process. They prob did hold it, but it cleared same day as the funds WERE available.

[Donomight25]

YYC27 and the original poster is correct. Of 7 of the first 8 links (excluding Beck song lyrics) for canceled check on google refer to the normal cancellation process that occurs when a check is cashed legitimately. The other link in the top 8, which supports your naming, is a poorly titled wikihow link which conflates stopping payment on a cheque for canceling it. I've submitted a correction to wikihow.

Inter-bank cheque cashing will advance the cheque as CANCELLED.
(Cheques issued from one branch, cashed at another)

Bank-to-bank cheque cashing will advance the cheque as COUNTERED.
(Cheques issued from one bank, cashed at another)

The lingo also varies in the industry, as in most industries.

[Ailliro]

2013.

ARO told me that it will be removed by Dec 2010 i.e. 6 years after date of last payment: 2004-12. Is there a way to remove it any earlier ?

[Donomight25]

ARO told me that it will be removed by Dec 2010 i.e. 6 years after date of last payment: 2004-12. Is there a way to remove it any earlier ?

Date of your last payment would have been the day you paid the collection company.

The collector just told you that to get you off the phone.

[equitiesfool]

I had an account with Rogers who sent an item to collections. It doesn't show up going to collections but the account shows up as below. I was told by the collector that if I paid the $200 that my credit rating would not receive a negative rating. I figured my credit rating was worth that so I paid the amount in full.

However in hindsight I should have fought this with Roger's since this was over a phone that I shipped back to them prior to closing an account. I have a release letter from the collection agency stating the amount was paid. Is this what the trade line look like?

Account #:
Condition: [Closed account] ([Paid])
Balance:

Type: Open account
Pay status: Bad debt/collection/skip
Payment: $0 Monthly (due every month)

Opened: 11/01/2004
Reported: 04/22/2009
Responsibility: Individual account


My second question is a weird one. Hardly any of my accounts show up on Transunion except for this one and my Visa. My score on transunion is 669 and my equifax score is 813. Equifax has all my other items including this roger's account. Is there any way to improve my Transunion score?

[Donomight25]

I had an account with Rogers who sent an item to collections. It doesn't show up going to collections but the account shows up as below. I was told by the collector that if I paid the $200 that my credit rating would not receive a negative rating. I figured my credit rating was worth that so I paid the amount in full.

However in hindsight I should have fought this with Roger's since this was over a phone that I shipped back to them prior to closing an account. I have a release letter from the collection agency stating the amount was paid. Is this what the trade line look like?

Account #:
Condition: [Closed account] ([Paid])
Balance:

Type: Open account
Pay status: Bad debt/collection/skip
Payment: $0 Monthly (due every month)

Opened: 11/01/2004
Reported: 04/22/2009
Responsibility: Individual account


My second question is a weird one. Hardly any of my accounts show up on Transunion except for this one and my Visa. My score on transunion is 669 and my equifax score is 813. Equifax has all my other items including this roger's account. Is there any way to improve my Transunion score?

1 .. The account STATUS will reflect PIF (Paid in Full).

Account #: xxxxxxxxxx
Condition: [Closed account] ([Paid])
Balance: $0.00

Type: Paid in Full
Pay status:Paid in Full
Payment: N/A

Opened: 11/01/2004
Reported: 04/22/2009
Responsibility: Individual account


2 .. Some companies report using Trans Union, others use Equifax.
The scores will not be the same with both companies.

[equitiesfool]

1 .. The account STATUS will reflect PIF (Paid in Full).

Account #: xxxxxxxxxx
Condition: [Closed account] ([Paid])
Balance: $0.00

Type: Paid in Full
Pay status:Paid in Full
Payment: N/A

Opened: 11/01/2004
Reported: 04/22/2009
Responsibility: Individual account


2 .. Some companies report using Trans Union, others use Equifax.
The scores will not be the same with both companies.

Thanks for the quick reply. I should of clarified this is what it currently looks like now.

Type: Open account
Pay status: Bad debt/collection/skip

Should I be doing something to correct this?

[Donomight25]

Thanks for the quick reply. I should of clarified this is what it currently looks like now.

Type: Open account
Pay status: Bad debt/collection/skip

Should I be doing something to correct this?

Fax Equifax/Trans Union a copy of the release letter and allow them 60days to adjust the account to reflect PIF.

[Sayashi]

interesting information here
i have a question
let say you owe cibc 20k and you have balance with another bank
can cibc do something in regard to the fund you have in other bank?
like put hold on the account or whatever? or even coming after the balance you have on the other account?

[da9920]

hello, hope someone can help me out here.

I recently got a letter from a collection agency, on behalf of IMPARK in toronto. (yes, it's from all the years I didn't pay them for parking and now, it's finally hit me)

I've moved since then and the letter has gone to my parents' house. If they can't get a hold of me, what's their next step? Amt > $1000 (they only have my name, license plate and the old address)

They've left a message asking for me to call back.

I am thinking to negotiate with the collector to talk down the debt but I want to know the best option I have. thanks very much!

I need some advise please.

[liorsyncro]

interesting information here
i have a question
let say you owe cibc 20k and you have balance with another bank
can cibc do something in regard to the fund you have in other bank?
like put hold on the account or whatever? or even coming after the balance you have on the other account?
No they can't, not without some kind of a court order and even then it's a Court Enforcement officer that would be doing it. They can't go to your other bank account with a different bank and just withdraw money. The only way any institution can go into your account is if you allow them too - that is, a signed PAP.

OTOH, if you owe money to CIBC or any other bank for that matter, I believe they have a right to offset from accounts that are under their umbrella. Therefore, watch if you open a PCF account (unlikely but play it safe) or a CIBC brokerage account.

[M08006899]

Update on my Bell situation:
Phoned Bell again yesterday, the rep told me that my account has no balance and is not in collections. E-mailed D&A Collections to follow up and ask for a signed written release form to be faxed to me. They replied to me with they followed up with Bell, both Bell and D&A have my account on hold pending an investigation and once completed, their rep will be in contact with me (about the release once Bell recognizes their errors of not processing payment to my account but depositing the cheque and of sending it to a collections agency TCR in March whom sent the account back to Bell as disputed then again to D&A)

[Donomight25]

interesting information here
i have a question
let say you owe cibc 20k and you have balance with another bank
can cibc do something in regard to the fund you have in other bank?
like put hold on the account or whatever? or even coming after the balance you have on the other account?

No.

BUT;

If you have a CIBC bank account with funds in it, they will OFFSET those funds and apply them to the debt.

CIBC and TDCT are one of the only 2 banks that OFFSET.

[Donomight25]

hello, hope someone can help me out here.

I recently got a letter from a collection agency, on behalf of IMPARK in toronto. (yes, it's from all the years I didn't pay them for parking and now, it's finally hit me)

I've moved since then and the letter has gone to my parents' house. If they can't get a hold of me, what's their next step? Amt > $1000 (they only have my name, license plate and the old address)

They've left a message asking for me to call back.

I am thinking to negotiate with the collector to talk down the debt but I want to know the best option I have. thanks very much!

I need some advise please.


If you're gainfully employed and own assets, cars etc then pay it off over time. Make monthly payments.

COLLECTION COMPANIES AND THEIR CLIENTS CANNOT REFUSE YOUR PAYMENTS BASED ON YOUR FISCAL CAPACITY.

If you make $100k a year and are offering $10/mth -- that doesn't cut it.

If you can afford to pay it off in a lump sum, see what they will settle at. Clients will ALWAYS settle.

[Donomight25]

No they can't, not without some kind of a court order and even then it's a Court Enforcement officer that would be doing it.

S/He would be from the 'County Clerks Sheriffs Department'. Thats who enforces judgements.



But you're right about offsets. TDCT and SOME BNS products do it.

[Donomight25]

Update on my Bell situation:
Phoned Bell again yesterday, the rep told me that my account has no balance and is not in collections. E-mailed D&A Collections to follow up and ask for a signed written release form to be faxed to me. They replied to me with they followed up with Bell, both Bell and D&A have my account on hold pending an investigation and once completed, their rep will be in contact with me (about the release once Bell recognizes their errors of not processing payment to my account but depositing the cheque and of sending it to a collections agency TCR in March whom sent the account back to Bell as disputed then again to D&A)

As long as the client shows that the account balance is $0, then you're fine.

You need to get this balance in writing. Get them to fax it to you ASAP.

[da9920]

If you're gainfully employed and own assets, cars etc then pay it off over time. Make monthly payments.

COLLECTION COMPANIES AND THEIR CLIENTS CANNOT REFUSE YOUR PAYMENTS BASED ON YOUR FISCAL CAPACITY.

If you make $100k a year and are offering $10/mth -- that doesn't cut it.

If you can afford to pay it off in a lump sum, see what they will settle at. Clients will ALWAYS settle.

Ok thanks. if I just want to get his over with & pay a lump sum, how much can i usually negotiate ??

Also, will my file go to the credit bureau if they cannot get a hold of me?

[fantom]

hello, hope someone can help me out here.

I recently got a letter from a collection agency, on behalf of IMPARK in toronto. (yes, it's from all the years I didn't pay them for parking and now, it's finally hit me)

I've moved since then and the letter has gone to my parents' house. If they can't get a hold of me, what's their next step? Amt > $1000 (they only have my name, license plate and the old address)

They've left a message asking for me to call back.

I am thinking to negotiate with the collector to talk down the debt but I want to know the best option I have. thanks very much!

I need some advise please.

Just send them a letter like this (feel free to customize it to your needs and situation - change the names and titles and such) and watch them all of a sudden "ignore" your case (I've used it the last time they sent me a notice asking for a few hundred dollars from me too and haven't heard back from them... and no, my credit score hasn't been touched):


NOTICE TO Vanguard Collection Agencies Ltd.
From: David-Scott: Goldberg, Trustee/creditor Registered Mail #
Agent with Power of Attorney in Fact for DAVID SCOTT GOLDBERG Reg # DSG - - -09


DAVID SCOTT GOLDBERG
[ADDRESS]
[CITY], [PROVINCE], [POSTAL CODE]

To: Vanguard Collection Agencies Ltd. 201 œ 16220 Stony Plain Road
Edmonton, AB, T5P-4A4

Re: NOTICE TO Vanguard Collection Agencies Ltd., 30 Mar 2009, Account # goldb322 sent to trustee/creditor Agent with Power of Attorney in Fact for DAVID SCOTT GOLDBERG

Vanguard Collection Agencies Ltd.,

I require specific information to be given to me upon request as per the Alberta Collection Agencies Act. There will be a FEE SCHEDULE put in place upon receiving of this letter. Furthermore, I claim my FEE SCHEDULE for each and every phone call I receive from any representative of Vanguard Collection Agencies Ltd., ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS PER PHONE CALL, for every return correspondence through registered mail ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS PER LETTER.

This is a formal demand and notice for all information entitled to me as the assumed debtor. I require the full names of the directors of your company, Vanguard Collection Agencies Ltd; I require both the full contact name and the full birth name as well. I require complete information proving who you work for and the full legal name of that company. I require your license numbers and proof that you two have met all requirements of the license. I require you to prove that you have been making calls (bearing in mind that you and your company are bound by all Rules, Regulations and Acts) and that if you do not honour said Rules, Regulations and Acts, that you personally become liable?

I require the following information on your Limited Liability Insurance:

1. Who is your insurance provider in the event that you are sued as a Collector, Employee or Agent?
2. What are the policy number, and the address and phone number of your insurer for verification?
3. I demand full disclosure on what the call is about. I require the COMPLETE file related to the matter at hand, the Creditor's name as it appears on the file, the Debtor's name, as it appears on the file, the amount of the alleged debt.

I require answers to the following questions:

1. Are you or the company the creditor? If YES, please mail a certified true and complete copy of the contract, complete with the name and address of the company signing the communication papers, in order that the alleged debtor (DAVID SCOTT GOLDBERG) can correspond with someone in authority and familiar with this claim.

2. If the answer is NO, why are you calling? Are you acting for a claimant or did your company purchase the claim/alleged debt? If the debt was purchased, was the Debtor (DAVID SCOTT GOLDBERG) notified before the purchase of said debt?

I require certified proof of such. If you are calling on behalf, I require a certifi
ed copy of the agreement signed by the principal party of the alleged Creditor.

3. Are you aware if there is any dispute between alleged Creditor and the alleged Debtor. If no, you are acting on assumptions and presumptions;

4. If yes, are YOU authorized to settle the dispute. Are you BOUND BY the code of ethics for Alberta's Collection Agencies set-out by The Collections Agencies Act.

Furthermore, I am putting Vanguard Collection Agencies Ltd company staff on notice, upon receiving this letter to:

1) Not to call any more, my FEE SCHEDULE will be exercised to its fullest extent if more calls are received.

2) Only to communicate by registered mail, addressed to:

DAVID SCOTT GOLDBERG
[ADDRESS]
[CITY], [PROVINCE], [POSTAL CODE]

3) All correspondence MUST be signed by an officer of the company Vanguard Collection Agencies Ltd.

4) Vanguard Collection Agencies Ltd is requested to provide certified complete and true copies of a document VALIDATING your claim.

5) Not to put a mark on my credit score with Equifax or Transunion. All marks put on my credit score will be removed via a signed and sworn and notarized Affidavit, and my FEE SCHEDULE of FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS PAYABLE IN CANADIAN CURRENCY TO BE SENT TO THE ABOVE ADDRESS IF VANGUARD COLLECTION AGENCIES LTD PUTS A MARK AGAINST MY CREDIT SCORE.

5) My FEE SCHEDULE, once again, is ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS PAYABLE IN CANADIAN CURRENCY TO BE SENT TO THE
ABOVE ADDRESS PER PHONE CALL RECEIVED BY ME FROM ANY VANGUARD COLLECTION AGENCIES LTD EMPLOYEE and
ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS PAYABLE IN CANADIAN CURRENCY FOR ANY LETTER RECEIVED BY ME FROM ANY VANGUARD
COLLECTION AGENCIES LTD EMPLOYEE TO THE ABOVE ADDRESS.

6) By Vanguard Collection Agencies Ltd NOT honouring this request and NOT providing me proof of your claim, shall constitute their acceptance of an agreement with the terms and conditions of a contract, the terms of which are to pay me in accordance with my FEE SCHEDULE and the total discharge of the alleged claim without recourse

7) You have 14 days to respond to this NOTICE.

NOTICE TO AGENT(S) /AGENCIES IS NOTICE TO PRINCIPAL(S) AND NOTICE TO PRINCIPAL(S) IS NOTICE TO AGENT(S)/AGENCIES

Regards,
David-Scott: Goldberg - Trustee/creditor Agent with Power of Attorney in Fact for DAVID SCOTT GOLDBERG
All rights reserved. Without Prejudice. UCC 1-207

Date: _________________________________

Signature: _____________________________

[Donomight25]

Ok thanks. if I just want to get his over with & pay a lump sum, how much can i usually negotiate ??

Also, will my file go to the credit bureau if they cannot get a hold of me?

You can usually get the client to accept 80% of the outstanding debt. Some go as low as 50%. Try starting there.

Pull a copy of your own bureau. Contact TRANS UNION and EQUIFAX to do so. You can request it on the internet, in person or by mail .

[Donomight25]

Just send them a letter like this (feel free to customize it to your needs and situation - change the names and titles and such) and watch them all of a sudden "ignore" your case (I've used it the last time they sent me a notice asking for a few hundred dollars from me too and haven't heard back from them... and no, my credit score hasn't been touched):


I always laugh when I get a generic letter like this from lawyers, paralegals and consumers themselves.

The letter does no good. At all.

The OP wants to pay it. He can settle it out, and show as SIF on his bureau.

OR;

The OP can send a stupid letter like that and get laughed at. The collector will close the account as disputed and levy it on his/her bureau if it's not already there.

PS - The OP is in On. Not Alberta. The Alberta Collection Agencies Act (AKA Collection Act aka Property Act) covers AB. Not Ont.

Thanks for trying to help.

[fantom]

I always laugh when I get a generic letter like this from lawyers, paralegals and consumers themselves.

The letter does no good. At all.

The OP wants to pay it. He can settle it out, and show as SIF on his bureau.

OR;

The OP can send a stupid letter like that and get laughed at. The collector will close the account as disputed and levy it on his/her bureau if it's not already there.

PS - The OP is in On. Not Alberta. The Alberta Collection Agencies Act (AKA Collection Act aka Property Act) covers AB. Not Ont.

Thanks for trying to help.

Really?

I sent one of those tailored to my outstanding Impark debt years ago (some $600 or something) and never heard back from them again... then again, it might not have been the letter that got them off my back, it might have been something else?

p.s. - earlier you mentioned something about 407 getting back their right to block plate/license renewals for people with outstanding debt? meaning, they didn't have that right for a certain period of time? when did that happen, and who decided to give it back to them anyway? (just because of all the 407 related news in the papers that were circulating last week)

[Donomight25]

Really?

I sent one of those tailored to my outstanding Impark debt years ago (some $600 or something) and never heard back from them again... then again, it might not have been the letter that got them off my back, it might have been something else?

p.s. - earlier you mentioned something about 407 getting back their right to block plate/license renewals for people with outstanding debt? meaning, they didn't have that right for a certain period of time? when did that happen, and who decided to give it back to them anyway? (just because of all the 407 related news in the papers that were circulating last week)

The letter cites the ALBERTA COLLECTION ACT. The legislation is different in each province. The OP were speaking about not only WANTS TO PAY IT, but lives in ONTARIO.



407;

The highway is operated privately by a consortium of companies known as Highway 407 International. This consortium has leased Highway 407 for a term of 99 years, and generates its revenue through toll collection.

When the lease was signed, I don't know. PRIOR to the lease taking effect, another company owned the highway and had no right to suspend the licences. All they did was sue you instead.

Which is worse? You decide.

[fantom]

The letter cites the ALBERTA COLLECTION ACT. The legislation is different in each province. The OP were speaking about not only WANTS TO PAY IT, but lives in ONTARIO.

I know, I know... the original letter was drafted by an Albertan, and I literally just copy/pasted it here. Of course you'd have to adjust it for Ontario and all, but if you say it's useless, hey, I'll take your word for it.


407;

The highway is operated privately by a consortium of companies known as Highway 407 International. This consortium has leased Highway 407 for a term of 99 years, and generates its revenue through toll collection.

When the lease was signed, I don't know. PRIOR to the lease taking effect, another company owned the highway and had no right to suspend the licences. All they did was sue you instead.

Which is worse? You decide.

Ahhh, so you meant before the Spanish got it... as in, that was a part of the deal.

And I don't even have to answer that one - apparently suing 407 for false charges or disputing them in any way is like pulling teeth from a baby.

[liorsyncro]

The letter cites the ALBERTA COLLECTION ACT. The legislation is different in each province. The OP were speaking about not only WANTS TO PAY IT, but lives in ONTARIO.



407;

The highway is operated privately by a consortium of companies known as Highway 407 International. This consortium has leased Highway 407 for a term of 99 years, and generates its revenue through toll collection.

When the lease was signed, I don't know. PRIOR to the lease taking effect, another company owned the highway and had no right to suspend the licences. All they did was sue you instead.

Which is worse? You decide.
Actually the 407 was owned by the government before the Mike Harris Conservatives, being the ****ing idiots that they are, decided to lease the highway to a consortium of Spanish, Australian, and Canadian companies that form 407 ETR Concession Company.

When the government was controlling the highway they used to deny plate renewal for outstanding tolls. But then again this was the government. What the Conservatives did was lease the highway WITH the privilege of plate denial given to a private enterprise. They essentially gave a private company the right to deny you the privilege to drive your car if you have an outstanding balance, whether disputed or not.

Remember, the onus is on YOU to prove that you didn't incur the toll. Once again, thank the provincial Conservatives for that move.

Early on their billing system was so plagued with problems that the government basically forced them to ditch plate denial until they got things in order. Once they upgraded their systems, they applied to the courts to reinstate plate denial - and won! Despite the Liberals trying to block it, they too, just like the Harris imbeciles, capitulated and settled with the 407. Part of the settlement called for a "dispute process", a "relief process" for people who owe a significant amount of money, and also the appointment of an independent ombudsman. The government dropped short of demanding that they stop the interest charges for bills incurred before they implemented their improved billing system or bills that are in dispute.

[Ray Oliver]

If you can afford to pay it off in a lump sum, see what they will settle at. Clients will ALWAYS settle.

Is there a significant difference in effect on your credit score if you pay in full vs. settling?

[Donomight25]

Is there a significant difference in effect on your credit score if you pay in full vs. settling?

Depends on several factors.

What does your credit look like now?

Are you a heavy credit user?

Do you pay multiple interest rates? ie. Mortgage, credit card, LOC etc.

Do you want to save $$ upfront, but pay higher interest?

Are you going to be applying for credit, refi-mortgage in the near future?




Paying in full allows you more leverage on credit in the future. Costs you $ upfront.

Settling in full allows you to save $ upfront, but shows that you basicly weasled your way out in the end.

[hkboy]

hi,

just wondering if you can suggest a couple of good debt consolidation company?

also, can you briefly describe how they work and how they can help me?? let say I owe a total of $20000. How much can they usually bring down the debt?......

thanks

[Donomight25]

hi,

just wondering if you can suggest a couple of good debt consolidation company?

also, can you briefly describe how they work and how they can help me?? let say I owe a total of $20000. How much can they usually bring down the debt?......

thanks

Depends on what kind of colsolidation etc.

DON'T DO A CONSUMER PROPOSAL. Ruins your credit, does nothing and someone else profits off of your payments and things you can do yourself.

If you want to TRULY consolidate, approach a bank or lender and try for a PLOC or installment loan.

[Ray Oliver]

Depends on several factors.

What does your credit look like now?

Are you a heavy credit user?

Do you pay multiple interest rates? ie. Mortgage, credit card, LOC etc.

Do you want to save $$ upfront, but pay higher interest?

Are you going to be applying for credit, refi-mortgage in the near future?

Paying in full allows you more leverage on credit in the future. Costs you $ upfront.

Settling in full allows you to save $ upfront, but shows that you basicly weasled your way out in the end.

My current credit isn't great but it was good enough to buy a house back in March. Besides that I am paying down a student line of credit and I have a credit card that is used monthly and is paid off monthly. I plan on getting a car loan or line of credit in the near future. I'm probably best off paying anything I owe in full if that is my goal, correct?

[Donomight25]

My current credit isn't great but it was good enough to buy a house back in March. Besides that I am paying down a student line of credit and I have a credit card that is used monthly and is paid off monthly. I plan on getting a car loan or line of credit in the near future. I'm probably best off paying anything I owe in full if that is my goal, correct?

You have several options. Owning a house shows me FICO score of 600+. Thats 'good' in general terms.

Personally? Take ALL THE DEBT/CREDIT YOU OWE and xfer it to the PERSONAL LINE OF CREDIT you want to get.

That means the SLOC, CC and debt you owe to creditors in collections.

[theguyz]

Asking again for again for a freind.

1994 defaulted loan 5k high interest 29.9%
1996 taken to court they did not appear and company won

no contact in between 1996 except for letter saying they won in court and 7k owed immediatley.

No communications what so ever till 2009, co calls no letters, person same address

now they sent to collections and want 14k


My common sense is loan taken to court, court rules in favour of amount so that amount in court rules was 7k so that woull be owed even to thsi day and no interest.

But no contact, no inquires on there credit report pulled up equifax and trans canada so would mean since over 7 years lost cause on collections and loan company or would court ruling still apply???????



Or is company pulling scare tactics, and just looking for money but since, falls so far back not legally and if person contacts them they will most likely agree to 7k and take payments , but person has no obligation now even if dead beat......

Same person, denied credit cars, loans etc.. until 2 years ago due to showing on reports, but then got 2 - 7 k cards and 40 k car loan......at below 9% so good credit scrore then.

whats your take on this../.

[bitjiggle]

Hi,

I received a pre-collection notice a company called Total Credit Recovery regarding a debt I have with CITI Mastercard for $11421. This is currently listed as R3. The agent told me they are willing to settle for $9100 by Nov. 30 and will give me a letter stating this debt is PIF and I need to bring this to Equifax. He also says that after a few months this will change to a R1. Is this correct or are they telling what I want to hear in order to close this quickly. I have another debt with HSBC for $4698 being handled by IQOR currently R5, they will settle $3650 and will also give me a letter if I pay by NOV 30. What is the best way to proceed?

Thank you

[hkboy]

Depends on what kind of colsolidation etc.

DON'T DO A CONSUMER PROPOSAL. Ruins your credit, does nothing and someone else profits off of your payments and things you can do yourself.

If you want to TRULY consolidate, approach a bank or lender and try for a PLOC or installment loan.

thanks for the info.

i will give that a try...just not sure if they will let me have it since the credit is bad

[Ray Oliver]

You have several options. Owning a house shows me FICO score of 600+. Thats 'good' in general terms.

Personally? Take ALL THE DEBT/CREDIT YOU OWE and xfer it to the PERSONAL LINE OF CREDIT you want to get.

That means the SLOC, CC and debt you owe to creditors in collections.

Yeah my score was 632 when I applied for the mortgage. If I do get a LOC I probably wouldn't transfer my SLOC since the interest rate is prime. No way would I get that on an unsecured LOC. CC I pay in full monthly anyways.

Thanks for your help.

[Donomight25]

Asking again for again for a freind.

1994 defaulted loan 5k high interest 29.9%
1996 taken to court they did not appear and company won

no contact in between 1996 except for letter saying they won in court and 7k owed immediatley.

No communications what so ever till 2009, co calls no letters, person same address

now they sent to collections and want 14k


My common sense is loan taken to court, court rules in favour of amount so that amount in court rules was 7k so that woull be owed even to thsi day and no interest.

But no contact, no inquires on there credit report pulled up equifax and trans canada so would mean since over 7 years lost cause on collections and loan company or would court ruling still apply???????



Or is company pulling scare tactics, and just looking for money but since, falls so far back not legally and if person contacts them they will most likely agree to 7k and take payments , but person has no obligation now even if dead beat......

Same person, denied credit cars, loans etc.. until 2 years ago due to showing on reports, but then got 2 - 7 k cards and 40 k car loan......at below 9% so good credit scrore then.

whats your take on this../.

Statute of Limitations has expired on the judgement from court.

Don't pay it.



The original company has MOST LIKELY sold the debt to some Joe Blow collection agency.
YOU NEED TO CONFIRM THIS.

If the agency is ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE CREDITOR:
-Tell them that the statute has expired and you're not paying this
-You have no contractual responsibility to attend to
-You don't care for moral responsibility
-No calls to home,cell,work Mail only
(you may need to send this in writing .. do it VIA FAX)

[Donomight25]

Hi,

I received a pre-collection notice a company called Total Credit Recovery regarding a debt I have with CITI Mastercard for $11421. This is currently listed as R3. The agent told me they are willing to settle for $9100 by Nov. 30 and will give me a letter stating this debt is PIF and I need to bring this to Equifax. He also says that after a few months this will change to a R1. Is this correct or are they telling what I want to hear in order to close this quickly. I have another debt with HSBC for $4698 being handled by IQOR currently R5, they will settle $3650 and will also give me a letter if I pay by NOV 30. What is the best way to proceed?

Thank you

Do you care about your credit?
If yes: Pay the settlements
If no: You wouldn't be posting

Pay them both.

As for the Trades and the R5's and 3's -- The account is past due and a COLLECTION AGENCY is sending you letters. The trade WILL NOT GO BACK TO R1. The account will reflect an R3 and show as 'CLOSED BY GRANTOR'.

The worst that can happen is that you don't pay, they go to R9 and they sue you.

The best that can happen is that you pay it, they stay at R3 and the account is closed and paid.

[Donomight25]

Yeah my score was 632 when I applied for the mortgage. If I do get a LOC I probably wouldn't transfer my SLOC since the interest rate is prime. No way would I get that on an unsecured LOC. CC I pay in full monthly anyways.

Thanks for your help.

Good rate for the SLOC.

You're a prpty owner. You can fight for a prime+1 LOC, but extend the limit to include your CC. I will always suggest closing the high int% CC and using your LOC for purchaes made on the CC otherwise.

[bitjiggle]

Do you care about your credit?
If yes: Pay the settlements
If no: You wouldn't be posting

Pay them both.

As for the Trades and the R5's and 3's -- The account is past due and a COLLECTION AGENCY is sending you letters. The trade WILL NOT GO BACK TO R1. The account will reflect an R3 and show as 'CLOSED BY GRANTOR'.

The worst that can happen is that you don't pay, they go to R9 and they sue you.

The best that can happen is that you pay it, they stay at R3 and the account is closed and paid.

Thanks for your response!

Is there a difference to my rating if I pay the full balance or settle i.e PIF vs SIF? How bad is an R3 and does that also drop off after 6 yrs? I'm worried the agents are giving me misinformation regarding what happens after and I get an R9 after settling with them.
Is there really a pre-collection period?

[Donomight25]

Is there a difference to my rating if I pay the full balance or settle i.e PIF vs SIF?
Depending on your credit, large difference.

Heavy credit users who SIF collection accounts incure higher interest rates, above and beyond what they would usually pay if they paid the account in full. Some clients even close accounts if they see you have settled with another client. Some up interest rates etc.

Light credit users may see no change in interest rates.


How bad is an R3 and does that also drop off after 6 yrs?

Not as bad as an R7,R9. Yes, the trade disappears 6yrs later.


I'm worried the agents are giving me misinformation regarding what happens after and I get an R9 after settling with them.
Is there really a pre-collection period?

You won't get an R9 after settling. It would have been an R9 before they sent it to collections.

No pre-collection peroid. The collection agent works whats called 'FIRSTS'.

'FIRSTS' are accounts that JUST went to collections. The commission rate is low, but the paying rate is sky-high. People usually have access to more credit, and are able to bridge the debt into another product. The funds usually are drawn from a LOC or a loan.




If you want future credit, or care about your credit and are in a position to pay WITHOUT INCURRING MORE DEBT, pay this as soon as you can.

[bitjiggle]

[


If you want future credit, or care about your credit and are in a position to pay WITHOUT INCURRING MORE DEBT, pay this as soon as you can.[/QUOTE]

I really appreciate your help here. I've gotten so much conflicting advice on this it's ridiculous. The agent from TCR is still telling me if I settle this account at $9100 it will be listed in a few months as I1.

I can fully pay everything off now without incurring more debt. And that sounds like the best way to proceed.

Thanks again.

[ghost416]

Do most collection agencies have in-house legal help or do they usually work in tandem with a law firm? Is the legal help mostly lawyers or paralegals or a mix of both?

I ask because in Ontario, Small Claims Court is, I have read, the busiest in the land. The government is bumping up the maximum to $25,000 for the court, which would seem to me a territory that a lot of collection agencies would tread. Since paralegals in the province of Ontario have just been recently regulated, with Small Claims Court being one of the places that they can litigate at, is there some kind of niche for a collections paralegal in Ontario? Or do most debts that get taken to court go somewhere else/get appealed, etc. that would be outside the realm of a paralegal? Thanks!

[GTA: YYC]

I have a question, do these people actually have any particular training or specialization?

The company I work for is being harassed by a collection agency acting on behalf of a company we used to lease some office equipment from.

To make a long story short at the end of the lease the company failed on three separate occasions to collect their hardware and some months later and only after we threatened to have it taken to the garbage dump picked it up and ultimately billed us for the time we were storing it.

Needless to say we refused to pay the bill and since that time the statute of limitations has passed.

Now out of the blue we have these *******s calling us making all sorts of ridiculous threats seemingly oblivious to the fact their dealing with a sizable business and not some kid who ran up $10,000 rogers bill.

Their really just embarrassing themselves at this point and have made numerous threats that wouldn't scare a child of any intelligence.

I'm just curious as to who the hell these people are because their little more to us than a source of entertainment.

One lawyer said they can't do anything to us and suggested pretending to have phone sex until they stop calling.