Calgary Flames H1N1 Debacle

[Emancipated]

Apparently the entire Flames team jumped the queue and got inoculated. Am I missing something? Couldn't they just buy their own supply like that posh clinic in Toronto a few days ago?

Apparently a few players have fallen ill to the virus already so they're making sure everyone is taken care of. Is this even news worthy or troubling you?

[cheapmeister]

I think the leafs should be getting this shot immediately cause they desperatley need all the help they can get. I mean like they only won one game all year! Please help them leafs win another hockey game and not loose anymore games!

[Emancipated]

May be half the team will drop dead and we can get some decent players?

[samm]

Must be hard to play hockey with bruise and sore shoulders!

[45ED]

Repost.

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/merged-h1n1-flu-shot-800655/31/#post9697790

[flimbs]

I've given this some thought. Do celebrities and pro athletes deserve to jump the queue? From my side of the fence, I would say no, despite the exorbitant $$$ they can pay more than we can. That would just lead to a two-tier health system. What's wrong with that some may ask? Maybe nothing.

But seeing as how the H1N1 flu shot is supposed to prevent illness....and possibly death.....is it fair that us normal folk have to wait in order to get immunized? is it far that we will be turned away at the flu shot clinics while they'll be welcomed with open arms? Of course it's not fair.

Say, there were an asteroid about to come kill off the entire planet. And they say that Celebrities and Pro athletes get to go on first. Would that be fair? Cause that's essentially what they're doing. They don't get to die first. We do.

Then what? The people who can afford it get it next?

Next! The people who make $10 million a year. Then the $100,000 people. Sorry poverty line people. You're probably already dead.

[jcon]

Someone suggested shooting the Leafs. I concur.

[Emancipated]

I've given this some thought. Do celebrities and pro athletes deserve to jump the queue? From my side of the fence, I would say no, despite the exorbitant $$$ they can pay more than we can. That would just lead to a two-tier health system. What's wrong with that some may ask? Maybe nothing.

But seeing as how the H1N1 flu shot is supposed to prevent illness....and possibly death.....is it fair that us normal folk have to wait in order to get immunized? is it far that we will be turned away at the flu shot clinics while they'll be welcomed with open arms? Of course it's not fair.

Say, there were an asteroid about to come kill off the entire planet. And they say that Celebrities and Pro athletes get to go on first. Would that be fair? Cause that's essentially what they're doing. They don't get to die first. We do.

Then what? The people who can afford it get it next?

Next! The people who make $10 million a year. Then the $100,000 people. Sorry poverty line people. You're probably already dead.

That's life. I guess the reason why we're not as pissed off as perhaps we should be is that we all know deep down that it already exists and accept it. It's an injustice ordinary folks just can't fight and hope to win. To fight anything in this world you need money but our health care system in Ontario benefits the poor more than the rich, I'll grant that much.

[ItechJester]

I would consider them priority.

Not because of money or fame, but because these professional athletes travel all over Can/USA.

If some of them get sick, they can be vectors and easily spread it to thousands of other people within weeks. Fans, media, sponsors etc

Anyone who travels as much as they travel should be inoculated as a priority IMO.

If the NHL simply issued an order to have all their players immunized, there would be no controversy.

[gorf]

Someone at AB Health Services was canned over this but they didn't disclose their name.

There's lots of people who have travel requirements as part of their job that's why I think it was so important for all govt. levels/health depts. to have been organized in handling the H1N1 flu shot. So AB shuts its doors for 4 days, why didn't they give out seasonal flu shots at the clinics at that time? The only place I can find a seasonal flu shot is at a pharmacy and then you pay. Not that I mind paying, but I'm on a search for someone else who is financially stunted or too cheap and would rather wait for the free one. I'm not even sure that the Capital Health region will be giving out seasonal flu shots after completion of the H1N1 shots.

By the way, what role do Emergency Preparededness and their provincial counterparts have to play in this whole thing? No role I guess. Donkey's still haven't gotten over OBL.

[Becks]

There are a lot of ppl who travel. Pilots, stewardesses, ppl who check your luggage onto planes and trains. They aren't supposed to get an early shot for that reason. What about all the bus drivers who come in contact with the public? Starbucks cashiers? McDonalds cashiers? The hockey players got shots because they are getting paid big bucks to play, and if players are taking time off because of the flu, there are gonna be bad hockey games and lower profits for the Fat Cats.

[M@rk]

I don't see what the big deal is... lots of regular non-risk folks are jumping the queue as well because it's all done on an honor system

[88]

Someone at AB Health Services was canned over this but they didn't disclose their name.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they had received some nice box seats to the Saddledome in exchange.

Perhaps we could base our whole medical system on who gives the best bribes. Triage could be assessed by emergency personal using a sophisticated instrument to measure how swollen your wallet is.

[kidflash23]

Unfortunately, no one should be surprised by this. The rich and elite are always treated differently in society. Apparently, the Leafs and the Raptors were able to jump the queue as well.

[hagbard]

May be half the team will drop dead and we can get some decent players?

Vaccine doesn't kick in for two weeks. Good luck with that. :razz:

[88]

I could possibly see an argument for our mighty hockey players - I mean this is Canada after all - but I fail to understand why their entire families are unable to stand in line with the rest of us.

:confused:

[fakishan]

That would just lead to a two-tier health system. What's wrong with that some may ask? Maybe nothing.

Was there anything wrong when the wealthy people on the Titanic got boats to leave the sinking ship while the poor didn't?

[Montague]

Someone at AB Health Services was canned over this but they didn't disclose their name.

Well you have to know they would find SOME fall guy to take the blame.

Person was not disclosed probably just either got a hefty severance package or just was shifted to another job.

[Shinyuki]

I think it made economic sense to jump line and get inoculated. If say some key players got sick then it would indirectly and directly affect the business involved with hockey games. It would be a lousy decision to not get the shot when each game generates a large amount of money.
I don't see why more business owners aren't jumping line to get their people inoculated.

[Montague]

I think it made economic sense to jump line and get inoculated.
NHL revenues are still mostly gate driven (ie butts in the seats).

It makes for some pretty bad PR if a millionaire single guy (I realize many players are married) gets to jump the line while babies or senior citizens get the shaft IF the supply of these shots are in short supply.

[chadjustine]

I think the leafs should be getting this shot immediately cause they desperatley need all the help they can get. I mean like they only won one game all year! Please help them leafs win another hockey game and not loose anymore games!

If the Leafs were to get the shots, they would likely go wide.

[pkguy]

I truly hope that in the unfortunate even a few Alberta children die from this flu that a picture of a still living and healthy Flames player has his picture alongside that of the dead child.. Better yet,make them attend the funerals, make them pay. This vaccine wasn't for sale, it was bought with Albertan and Canadian taxpayers money and protocols of distribution were to be followed and they weren't because somebody bribed somebody at Alberta Health.

This is nothing short of all the healthy men jumping into the lifeboats and leaving the woman and children to drown, seriousl, and that is how it should be viewed.

See how your view will change when a child of a relative or friend of yours dies from this flu because they didn't get a shot. Then Go Flames Go

It really is that simple

[chadjustine]

I truly hope that in the unfortunate even a few Alberta children die from this flu that a picture of a still living and healthy Flames player has his picture alongside that of the dead child.. Better yet,make them attend the funerals, make them pay. This vaccine wasn't for sale, it was bought with Albertan and Canadian taxpayers money and protocols of distribution were to be followed and they weren't because somebody bribed somebody at Alberta Health.

This is nothing short of all the healthy men jumping into the lifeboats and leaving the woman and children to drown, seriousl, and that is how it should be viewed.

See how your view will change when a child of a relative or friend of yours dies from this flu because they didn't get a shot. Then Go Flames Go

It really is that simple


Except, that when the Flames approached the Alberta govt, there WASNT a shortage of shots available. It was only 3 days after that the shortage was announced.

Besides, whats the difference between this and athletes and surgeries. My mom had to wait 9 months to get an MRI on her hip/knee and then another 7 months to get her operation. An NHL player can get his knee busted out in a game tonight, only to have his MRI tomorrow and the operation by Saturday. Why is ok for a regular person to have to have to wait a total of 16 months for the same thing the NHL player got in 5 days? btw .. I dont think that they should get preferential treatment at all.

How are the swine flu shots any different? The team went to the Alberta govt and said "hey listen, can we get a batch of the shots so we dont have to stand in line?" The Alberta govt said yes. If they shouldnt have said yes (which I will assume is the case since someone got fired over it), then how is that the Flames fault? They asked the question, they got the answer. Its not their fault that someone didnt do their job properly.

[pkguy]

Chad it is no different than the players getting their MRI's and surgeries faster than your mom,, they shouldn't, if your mom was in the line first she should have been first. Our Canadian Health system is designed and supposed to be administered on a triage like basis,, those that need help first get it first, those that can wait a little longer wait. Nobody regardless of status is exempt.

You say they went to the Alberta Govt...yes and that person knew full well he/she was in essence breaking the law. And do you honestly honestly believe in your heart of hearts the person from the Flames organization didn't know that as well,, the Flames own physician? They both knew the protocols. 9 out of 10 average Canadians if you asked them would have known the answer should have been a resounding NO,,that's how we do it here in Canada. It's simple and understandable, no queue jumping by anyone

[chadjustine]

Chad it is no different than the players getting their MRI's and surgeries faster than your mom,, they shouldn't, if your mom was in the line first she should have been first. Our Canadian Health system is designed and supposed to be administered on a triage like basis,, those that need help first get it first, those that can wait a little longer wait. Nobody regardless of status is exempt.

You say they went to the Alberta Govt...yes and that person knew full well he/she was in essence breaking the law. And do you honestly honestly believe in your heart of hearts the person from the Flames organization didn't know that as well,, the Flames own physician? They both knew the protocols. 9 out of 10 average Canadians if you asked them would have known the answer should have been a resounding NO,,that's how we do it here in Canada. It's simple and understandable, no queue jumping by anyone

I agree with you 10000% on your 1st paragraph.

As for your second ... of course they knew. But, they used their 'position' (be it financial or otherwise) to suit them. I sorta kinda cant blame them for that. Many people might do the same in their position, to different degrees. "Hey dad, can you give my buddy a job even though he isnt qualified?" "Hey uncle bob, you know how you are a cop .. can you get me out of this ticket?"

I dont see anything wrong with the Flames asking to get preferential treatment. The fault lies in the person that bought into it .. be it out of a sense of being nice or guilt or getting box seats for a game.

As they say .. it never hurts to ask.

[pkguy]

But Chad,,, go back to the sinking ship scenario and the Flames are on board.

They go to the ships captain and ask if they can have two lifeboats for "the team" since they have to make some games on both sides of the border, oh and their family as well because they won't be able to play if one of their family members gets sick.

So the flames get their lifeboats and 50-60 children onboard don't and you think it's ok because they asked for it and were given it? The Flames hierarchy who did the asking were there as well and they could see those 50-60 children would be left behind and they asked anyways.. It doesn't excuse them at all in fact it makes them look even more cowardly. Us first, you all fend for yourselves mentality.

Everytime you or people in general "excuse" this sort of behavior you weaken our health system which is designed to protect all Canadians regardless of status, money, etc

[chadjustine]

So the flames get their lifeboats and 50-60 children onboard don't and you think it's ok because they asked for it and were given it? The Flames hierarchy who did the asking were there as well and they could see those 50-60 children would be left behind and they asked anyways.. It doesn't excuse them at all in fact it makes them look even more cowardly. Us first, you all fend for yourselves mentality.


The problem with that scenario is that when the Flames asked to get the shots, there wasnt a shortage. There was only a shortage AFTER the fact.

So, the scenario then comes the players asking for lifeboats ahead of everyone else, even though there is enough for everyone. Once they are off the boat and safely on their way to their next game, the captain does a count and realizes they arent actually enough boats.

Thats a completely different scenario, in my opinion.

[pkguy]

We'll you're kind of stretching it a little LOL. It's woman and children first or in the case of H1N1,, children and high risk FIRST, first is first, not second or at the same time. And as I recall there has never been nor never announced that there would be enough vaccine for everyone. There was enough to cover the kids and high risk groups first in that order and supposedly would be enough to cover most of the general population who wanted one. When they are looked after then the gen pop gets there's and that includes the Flames players..

What kinda suprises me is didnt any of them or their wives ask questions, even wonder one iota?

[chadjustine]

We'll you're kind of stretching it a little LOL. It's woman and children first or in the case of H1N1,, children and high risk FIRST, first is first, not second or at the same time. And as I recall there has never been nor never announced that there would be enough vaccine for everyone. There was enough to cover the kids and high risk groups first in that order and supposedly would be enough to cover most of the general population who wanted one. When they are looked after then the gen pop gets there's and that includes the Flames players..

What kinda suprises me is didnt any of them or their wives ask questions, even wonder one iota?

Im not stretching anything at all. Thats what I heard. Whether its true or not, thats another issue. Also, I didnt hear that there wasnt enough for everyone. Interesting. I didnt know that. Thank you.

While I am on the side of the boat that thinks the players are NOT part of the original groups to get shots first .. to play devils advocate for a moment: they do come in contact with many people in a day, they do spend time in hospitals doing charity work with kids and such, they do public events, etc, etc. An argument can be made (and has been made), that in order to avoid spreading the virus more in their contact with many people, they should get a shot.

[88]

The problem with that scenario is that when the Flames asked to get the shots, there wasnt a shortage. There was only a shortage AFTER the fact.
That was an odd part about this whole flu vaccine situation. There was plenty for all, then a severe shortage, and the turnaround time between these two stories was approx. 3 days.

[moxy]

http://www.healthzone.ca/health/newsfeatures/swineflu/article/721587--questions-after-some-athletes-given-flu-shots?bn=1

Some Leafs and Rapts got to the front of the line too

[Spray]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=swine_flu

[flimbs]

Apparently, the Leafs and the Raptors were able to jump the queue as well.
Well at least own up to it. The Raptors spokespeople don't want to admit that they jumped the queue. They keep insisting to the media, "We didn't jump the queue!". Ppl are afraid of being fired obviously.

[gorf]

Well you have to know they would find SOME fall guy to take the blame.

Person was not disclosed probably just either got a hefty severance package or just was shifted to another job.

Yup the govt. was under alot of pressure to do something, there's alot of unhappy campers here. The guy who took the hit for the team was obviously not an Oilers fan and is happy with the hit they've taken with the sick players we've had. (Mind you now I'm wondering if the team got vaccinated or still not.)

What has me curious is the difference of how the serum is being handled provincially. Someone (in the other thread I think) mentioned how they got a shot from their doctor, I've yet to hear any rumblings of a private practitioner in AB vaccinating a patient.