Aftermarket HIDs Legal or Illegal

[geokilla]

I'm considering adding aftermarket HID to our 2000 Volvo S70. However, before I proceed any further into this, are aftermarket HIDs illegal? I see them a lot on cars that shouldn't have them, but they're still running on the roads. I've heard that if done incorrectly, they're unsafe to the oncoming traffic as the HIDs can be blinding them.

Also, what's the best temperature for HIDs? I'm thinking of around 4000K? I'll be purchasing them from SharpHID if everything goes well.

[john widow]

HID pnp kit in oem halogen reflectors will most likely always give horrible glare. Just do a retrofit with actual hid projectors the first time and you'll be happy and done with.

[booblehead]

It's illegal .. mainly due to the incorrect light beam pattern resulted from the type of light housing it uses.

Here is a link to further explain ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVuSSdZNsZw

[l69norm]

If your headlights look like:
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee149/l69norm/screen1-5.jpg

A HID kit probably won't work very well in that kind of headlight. All the extra light from the HID kit reflects off the ridges on the lens (called "flutes") and ends up in all the wrong places = glare for oncoming drivers. It's more likely to work in a headlamp with a clear front cover.

Every car's headlamp is a bit different. I'd look at the results that someone else got with a car that's the same as yours. Just because it worked in your friend's Audi headlamp doesn't mean it will work in a Volvo.

HID kits aren't explicitly illegal in ON. In some other provinces, HID kits are explicitly illegal in their version of the HTA. For ON, you have to meet all the head lamp provisions in the ON HTA (and it's regulations) such as aiming and beam pattern. You most likely won't with a HID kit in a halogen reflector headlamp.

..........Edit - H7 to H9 deleted - won't work...........

As well, make sure your stock wiring is OK as many OEM setups don't get full voltage at the bulbs (13VDC vs. 11VDC). This can reduce stock bulb brightness by as much as 30%. A heavy duty wiring harness would be the first lighting mod I would do and it's cheap at about $30.

BTW, if you are really set on a HID kit, there is a RFD discount from user "Qube":
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/hid-canada-hid-automotive-lighting-791954/

The best color temperature is about 4300K which is OEM stock (3200lm). As you go up in temperature, the light output drops. At 6000K, the light output is about 2600-2800 lm.

There are now drop in HID mini-projectors that replace the H7 bulb (called the G1 and G3) with no physical alteration to the existing headlamp, however they won't work for you because of the ridges or flutes on your headlamp lenses

[S203]

To make a long story short (aside from the technical reasons why aftermarket HID kits shouldn't be in halogen reflector headlights), if it wasn't there from the factory, then it's considered illegal.

[VorteC]

To make a long story short (aside from the technical reasons why aftermarket HID kits shouldn't be in halogen reflector headlights), if it wasn't there from the factory, then it's considered illegal.

Proper aiming is the key. Retrofitting achieves a result better than factory.

[tapanpatel88]

Proper aiming is the key. Retrofitting achieves a result better than factory.

True. If OP doesn't want to do a retrofit, then atleast make sure you aim your headlights properly. Aiming lights isn't too difficult and most cars have a little bolt (one bolt per light) in your engine bay area that you need to turn clockwise/counterclockwise to raise/lower light output. Obviously you have to lower in yours in order to prevent glare onto oncoming drivers.

[Mayoo]

If you plan to get HID, get with proper housing and point it down a bit compare to OEM otherwise it will be pain for oncoming drivers and the driver infront of u ..

[Paolo]

the ones whitch are projector and are a direct bolt-on are legal. the ones which are not bolt-on are possibly illegal and u can get arrested and go to jail.

[Qube]

Here's the short of it... YES, illegal. Having said that, so is going 1 KP/H over the speed limit or having any type of frame or cover over your license plates.

Now as long as you have your headlights properly aimed, you would most likely not be stopped, BUT it is still illegal which is why most (if not all) kits are marked for "offroad use only".

The bottom line is you're installing a kit to increase your safety without making the road unsafe for others. Proper aiming and consideration is key here. If you're installing 10000k temperature bulbs in your reflector fog lights, you should certainly be ticketed. Think about it... an improperly used or aimed HID kit is much worse that someone driving willy-nilly with their high-beams on... and we all know how annoying those folks are!

[VorteC]

the ones whitch are projector and are a direct bolt-on are legal. the ones which are not bolt-on are possibly illegal and u can get arrested and go to jail.

goto jail for HIDs? do you live in switzerland or something?

[HP_John]

Proper aiming is the key. Retrofitting achieves a result better than factory.

Can you explain why retrofitting is better than factory? I'm just curious

[DLFB]

Aftermarket HIDs Legal or Illegal
Annoying.

If there's a way for people these to have their High beams disabled please do it.

HIDs + high beams = road hazard.

[Qube]

Can you explain why retrofitting is better than factory? I'm just curious

I think it was a shortened sentence. Probably:

"Retrofitting with projector lenses achieves a result better than factory halogen lighting systems."

Still, proper HID projectors (a la popular TSX projectors) is the way to go. A stopgap would be aftermarket projector headlamps.

[jchan1985]

just placed my order, Thanks for your help Qube!

H11 kit for a 2010 Mazda3

looking forward to it!

Has anybody here tried an HID kit for a 2010 Mazda 3?

[geokilla]

Well the first step is knowing that they're not illegal, which is a plus. I'm pretty much set on getting the HID kit from SharpHID (http://www.sharphid.com/) if I can as they're good and cheap. Of course, I'd be willing to sacrifice money for safety. Last thing I'd want is blinding people like my high beams were on. It'd also make the car a ticket magnet.

What's retrofitting and housing? I'm new to the technical stuff when it comes to cars. I think I know quite a bit about cars, but that's only the specs and everything, nothing technical.

[l69norm]

.... Last thing I'd want is blinding people like my high beams were on. It'd also make the car a ticket magnet...

That's likely to happen with the existing headlamps you have. Have a look at the photo gallery in:
http://www.sharphid.com/

Do you notice they are quite careful not to show a beam shot against a wall? The photos they do show are on an open field or cutoff so you can't see the glare. One they shouldn't have put up:
Original
http://www.sharphid.com/images/gallery/35w5000ks70projlg.jpg

My version:

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee149/l69norm/35w5000ks70proj.jpg

Everything above the red line shouldn't be there and is "glare" to an approaching driver. It's particularly bad in the red circle. It's great if you are trying to light up the tops of trees when you drive by. This isn't a problem with the HID kit maker as it is the particular headlight it is installed in. Re-aiming the headlights isn't going to fix this unless you plan to point them straight into the ground. score 0/10

This is what it's suppose to look like:
http://img249.imageshack.us/i/img0136ph1.jpg/

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee149/l69norm/img0136ph1.jpg

Notice how there is almost no light above the red line. It's razor sharp so oncoming drivers aren't being blinded. score 10/10

Sometimes you can get a score of 7/10 in particular cars (i.e. H4 with a casper shield). A lot of times you end up with less than 3/10 (most 9004/9007 headlights)

The big problem for you is the ridges or "flutes" on your lenses. The shape of your headlight reflector causes the beam pattern and cutoff. The flutes are an old school idea that spreads the light more "evenly" within the beam pattern, otherwise you would end up with a big glob of light in the center and nothing on the sides

Flutes are the ridges or lines on the headlamp lens. Example:
http://www.iandireproduction.com/photos/Parts-Multiple/headlight-lens.gif

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee149/l69norm/headlight-lens.jpg

As soon as you put something more powerful in your headlamp that's not exactly in the right place, the flutes will spread the light to the wrong spots and you'll get a lot of glare. Unfortunately, the HID arc does end up in the wrong place.

Flutes are old school because they didn't have a lot of computer design equipment back then plus flutes did the job and were cheap. About 10-15 years ago, computer generated "free form" designs appeared where the reflector itself is segmented to spread the light evenly inside the beam pattern and the flutes eventually disappeared and clear lenses appeared. Example of free form reflector (segmented to spread light to the right places) which would have a clear lens:
http://www.jainplastic.com/images/reflectors_HL.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee149/l69norm/reflectors_HL.jpg

Even if you "retrofit" a score 10/10 projector behind your existing headlight lenses with those flutes, you are going to get glare and end up with 6/10 or even worse. It's like trying to read a book looking by through the bottom of a beer bottle

To do HID properly, you are going to have to find an aftermarket headlamp assembly for your car with clear lenses and have them modified for HID. Something like these with clear lenses:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/VOLVO-PROJECTOR-HEADLIGHT-SET-CHROME-C70-S70-V70-V70XC_W0QQitemZ370277242577QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMoto rs_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item56363e56d1

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee149/l69norm/screen1-6.jpg

For the ebay aftermarket headlamp housing above, you would take it apart, remove the cheapie projector they gave you and install your own OEM HID projectors

The alternative is to make your own clear lenses out of plastic for you existing headlight, throw away the fluted lenses and then mount an OEM projector inside. There's a "how to" article on HIDplanet

So ok, some terms:
Retrofit - means taking a real OEM HID projector and mounting it inside your existing headlight. OEM projectors are named after the car they were taken from. For example TSX and TL from Accura, E46 from a BMW 3 series, E55 from a Mercedes E class, FX from Infniti FX35, S2K from Honda s2000, etc.

PNP or HID kit - means "plug and play" kit or a "HID kit" that you buy and install into an OEM halogen headlamp.

Headlamp housing - means part of the whole headlight assembly. It assembly consists of the lens, reflector and the housing which is the shell everything is mounted inside.

In general,
Retrofit = good = $$$
HID Kit / PNP = bad = $


I would first start by researching the forums on HIDplanet:
http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/

The Daniel Stern website has good info about HID kits in a halogen reflector. He's an automotive lighting expert who testifies before the US NHTSA :
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

[tapanpatel88]

just placed my order, Thanks for your help Qube!

H11 kit for a 2010 Mazda3

looking forward to it!

Has anybody here tried an HID kit for a 2010 Mazda 3?

If you check Qube's thread, JayPatel has posted pics of an HID kit on his Mazda 6. I wouldn't expect it to be any different for a Mazda 3 than Mazda 6 as I believe the stock halogen projectors used in both the cars are the same. I could be wrong though.

I have seen a LOT of Mazda 3's on the road with HIDs installed. It looks very nice. Then again, so does my 08 Accord :cheesygri

[tapanpatel88]

Well the first step is knowing that they're not illegal, which is a plus. I'm pretty much set on getting the HID kit from SharpHID (http://www.sharphid.com/) if I can as they're good and cheap. Of course, I'd be willing to sacrifice money for safety. Last thing I'd want is blinding people like my high beams were on. It'd also make the car a ticket magnet.

What's retrofitting and housing? I'm new to the technical stuff when it comes to cars. I think I know quite a bit about cars, but that's only the specs and everything, nothing technical.

l69norm did an awesome job describing differences b/w Pnp and retrofits in his post.

In short, retrofitting means custom fitting existing factory HID projectors (such as projectors from Acura TSX/TL, Infiniti FX 35/45, etc.) into your halogen housings. Luxury cars such as Acura, Infiniti, BMW, etc. come with factory HIDs that are nicely installed in their housings. However, you would imagine custom fitting these projectors in your halogen housing is simple as it involves opening of your halogen housing and installing these projectors. WRONG! Infact, in order to retrofit, for 99% of halogen housings, you will need to bake your headlight assembly in an oven in order to remove the seal holding the housing together. Once this is done, you will need to do a lot of custom tailoring in order to properly install these projectors. Also, you have to be VERY careful with the light beam pattern before you put your custom assembly back in your car. You have to make sure that you custom fit these projectors evenly producing a light output at the same level for both projectors (you don't want one higher and one lower) Once you have this task accomplished, you will need to reseal the headlight assembly - this is not a tough task but in order to use proper OEM seal used by Honda, Toyota, etc. you will need to spend $$$ on that as well. If you do not seal your headlight properly, you can accumulate water/moisture during rainy/snowy seasons. This will cause damage to your car and can even short the electrical system in your car.

Please see the following youtube videos in order to understand what I am talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imIiglkq7HA&feature=related (Part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qExaAFgvquE&feature=related (Part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg_C_jtonZw&feature=related (Part 3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ1repIX_UU&feature=channel (Part 4)

You can pick up a used set of TSX/TL, etc HID projectors from eBay, a junkyard, an online store, etc. I wouldn't recommend you retrofitting this yourself as its a tedious job. You rather get it done from someone else who knows that they are doing. Of course, this won't be cheap and with labour and parts and everything it could cost you anywhere around $1000.

[geokilla]

Wow. Very detailed posts. I'll read them when I got time tomorrow. Gotta get ready to sleep.

Just a quick question. If I was to get the clear/projector headlights, it'd be these ones right? THEN I can go onto fitting HIDs safely or with at least less worrying of glare and blinding others.

https://www.eurosporttuning.ca/images/volvo/VLA-180-401-T1.jpg

http://www.ipdusa.com/uploads/images_skus/14361.jpg

[tapanpatel88]

Wow. Very detailed posts. I'll read them when I got time tomorrow. Gotta get ready to sleep.

Just a quick question. If I was to get the clear/projector headlights, it'd be these ones right? THEN I can go onto fitting HIDs safely or with at least less worrying of glare and blinding others.

https://www.eurosporttuning.ca/images/volvo/VLA-180-401-T1.jpg

http://www.ipdusa.com/uploads/images_skus/14361.jpg

Yes, those should be the ones. These ready-made headlight housings usually come with cheap no name generic projectors (no they are not taken out of cars with factory projectors). Keep in mind that the quality of these generic aftermarket no name brand lenses aren't worth the $ you spend on it compared to the $$$ you spend on OEM projectors. In a lot of aftermarket generic projectors, I have seen hot spots of light heavily concentrated a few meters in front of the car. What this means is that its not THAT much better than standard halogen projectors in terms of light output. Sure you will see a nice cutoff but the light output itself will be messed up.

Here are a few pictures (I googled them) that explain what I mean:

http://i39.tinypic.com/29preo5.jpg
***Notice the big bright hot spot in the middle of the light output***

http://i34.tinypic.com/25z31fm.jpg
***Notice the uneven light output. Left side is a bit dark opposed to the right side*** --> Regarding the retrofit in this picture, follow this link for more info: http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/lighting-h-i-d-s-neon/178659-my-2nd-civic-retrofit.html

If you want to go down the road of lease expenditure (i.e. PnP kits), atleast make sure you properly aim your headlights. If you want to further reduce (not eliminate) glare, buy HID bulb glare shields. I know www.xenondepot.com used to sell Casper shields some time ago, but I can't seem to find them now. They will help you reduce glare big time! Doing this doesn't mean you won't get ticketed by the cops, but the probability of you getting pulled over for unsafe lights will be greatly reduced.

If you decide to buy pre-made headlight housings with aftermarket projectors, atleast make sure to reseal the headlight assembly properly using proper OEM seals. Rubber silicone seems to work best but it might be a bit pricey (not 100% sure though). Otherwise you will get moisture and/or water in rainy/snowy seasons.

[S203]

Proper aiming is the key. Retrofitting achieves a result better than factory.

Even with a PnP kit in a halogen-based headlight that has been aimed lower, it's still going to give glare, a horrible beam pattern and still blind other drivers (people in front of you + oncoming). Unless you aim it so low where you won't be blinding others but then you will lose all your own lighting anyway. So either they are driving blind or you are.

Retrofitting is still a better option but more costly. Even with retrofitted headlights, they still aren't as perfect as a car that came with factory HIDs in HID projectors.

[DJ_Peanuts22]

Please don't.

There's already an army of cars that have PnP HID kits running around in Toronto with absolutely disgusting amounts of glare. I'm surprised that cops don't pull them over and ticket them for endangering oncoming traffic.

[oasis100]

If you don't have projector headlamps, like on a Mazda 3, don't bother getting HID kit. The beam will not be proper and you are just putting glare in other peoples eyes.