Projector CutOff Question.

[DJ Trance AZ]

I've got a projector retrofitted and I was told I've got TSX projectors...Now what do you think of the light output in the picture below? Did I really get a TSX projector?

I also wonder what are the two black triangular shadows you see in the photos...

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_RyzBZNdr8LI/Sut_OLBqaPI/AAAAAAAAETQ/y5WgtjGOb_I/s640/PA301791.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_RyzBZNdr8LI/Sut_Nh6XWXI/AAAAAAAAETM/fVxuFJTY3lU/s640/PA301790.JPG

[EP32k2]

Nope, not TSX at all. TSX will look simular to this without the blue cutoff.

http://g35driver.com/forums/attachments/body-interior-exterior-lighting-diy/92819d1215887821-diy-2006-projector-cutoff-color-mod-longcuttof.jpg

[DJ Trance AZ]

Uh oh...well also my projector uses H1 bulb. I installed a pair yesterday and it just doesn't sit flush even when I matched the nipples on two surfaces, exposing part of the bulb @ the back of the projector.

[VorteC]

Yeah they're not the TSX projectors, I had the TSX and I've sold TSX projectors too. EP posted a pretty good picture of what the TSX cutoff would look like.

[boredstudent3]

not only did u not get a tsx projector, but ur cutoffs are not aligned...the right one is tilted too much

[aricebox]

does not look like a good job.....do you mind posting where you got this done?

[l69norm]

Uh oh...well also my projector uses H1 bulb. I installed a pair yesterday and it just doesn't sit flush even when I matched the nipples on two surfaces, exposing part of the bulb @ the back of the projector.

TSX uses a D2S bulb, not H1:
D2s:
http://forum.geceucusu.com/uploads/post-846-1176285634.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee149/l69norm/post-846-1176285634.jpg

The back of a TSX looks like:

http://faqlight.carpassion.info/images/2003-acura-tsx-projector-sizes.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee149/l69norm/2003-acura-tsx-projector-sizes.jpg

I'm not sure if you trying to put a HID kit H1 bulb into a TSX projector? (You have to use a real D2s bulb)

Can you show us a photo of the projectors that you got?

[DJ Trance AZ]

I found this site:
http://www.auto-electronic.net/hidprojector.htm

http://www.auto-electronic.net/TSX-H1-Xenon-ECE-Single-Beam-Projector.htm

The North American agent is The Retrofit Source. My TSX H1 does look like the one from the site cited above.

[l69norm]

I found this site:
http://www.auto-electronic.net/hidprojector.htm

http://www.auto-electronic.net/TSX-H1-Xenon-ECE-Single-Beam-Projector.htm

The North American agent is The Retrofit Source. My TSX H1 does look like the one from the site cited above.


It looks like you have a chinese clone/replica of a TSX projector. I haven't seen any reviews of TSX clones (I didn't know they existed) , but here is a review of the FX clone that the same company also sells:
http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=48176&highlight=tsx+replica

As you can see, the FX clone not exactly the same as OEM FX projector. They copy some of the original defects in the OEM design plus add in a few new ones.

It's also possible that those black triangles could be caused by your H1 kit bulbs which might be off center. You can try spacing the bulbs back/forth side/side, rotated, etc to see if you can get better results.

I would try asking on the Retrofit source or HIDplanet forums

[DJ Trance AZ]

Well the H1 bulb is sitting @ an angle even with the nipples matched on the the bulb and projector.

Well I will stay with my setup until I get more $$, heh.

[BeaverLiquor]

i hope i don't have to drive anywhere near you at night.

[alex_d10]

Why dont you complain to the seller? I'm pretty sure that all OEM hid projectors use D2S bulbs, so that H1 bulb is already a dead giveaway...

[DJ Trance AZ]

Why dont you complain to the seller? I'm pretty sure that all OEM hid projectors use D2S bulbs, so that H1 bulb is already a dead giveaway...

Well he did at the beginning of the transaction inquired about the cost I was willing to pay for the retrofit. He gave me several options and did explain that there might be variation to the light output of the projector that he'll get. So now when I look @ it, it's not his fault, because I was involved in the decision-making process of how much I was willing to pay for the retrofit.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[afzan]

i hope i don't have to drive anywhere near you at night.

agreed

[MP3_SKY]

i hope i don't have to drive anywhere near you at night.

I've seen worse, at least those aren't the HID kit with horrible glare.

[l69norm]

Well, the first thing I would do is get the H1 bulbs to seat properly. I don't know if it's a problem with the H1 kit bulbs or a defect in the TSX clone projector. The problem with chinese clone stuff is there's no QA check like OEM parts would get. Stuff can be way out of spec and cause weird problems.

I'd try a real halogen H1 bulb and see if it sits straight in the projector. If it's off at an angle too, then it's probably a projector defect and you should go back to your retrofitter. If the halogen H1 bulb sits OK, then I'd get a better H1 kit bulb. Look for "rebased" OEM Philips HID bulbs.

The alternative is to go back to the retrofitter with both the clone projectors and your H1 HID bulbs and let him sort the whole thing out.

[DJ Trance AZ]

I went to see him...the halogen H1 does sit better actually.

By the way, where can I locally purchase Philips re-based H1?

[l69norm]

I went to see him...the halogen H1 does sit better actually. By the way, where can I locally purchase Philips re-based H1?

Xenondepot, but he's very pricey at $85+ per bulb:
http://www.kbcarstuff.com/XenonDepot_HID_Components_s/30.htm

You can also try HIDCanada as they say they can get chinese made Philips bulbs (licensed):
http://hidcanada.com/store/

try Pm to RFD user name "Qube" as he associated with HIDcanada:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/hid-canada-hid-automotive-lighting-791954/

[tapanpatel88]

+1 for Qube. I bought a HID kit from him. A great product I must say.

Xenondepot, but he's very pricey at $85+ per bulb:
http://www.kbcarstuff.com/XenonDepot_HID_Components_s/30.htm

You can also try HIDCanada as they say they can get chinese made Philips bulbs (licensed):
http://hidcanada.com/store/

try Pm to RFD user name "Qube" as he associated with HIDcanada:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/hid-canada-hid-automotive-lighting-791954/

[AA0913]

the black triangles you see are from the black return line from the bulb, im sure that line follows all down the beam pattern,

maybe they are projectors but projectors not designed for HID bulbs.

[l69norm]

the black triangles you see are from the black return line from the bulb, im sure that line follows all down the beam pattern,
maybe they are projectors but projectors not designed for HID bulbs.

Wouldn't that mean that his bulb is upside down ? (i.e. return wire on top vs. return wire on bottom)

[DJ Trance AZ]

Wouldn't that mean that his bulb is upside down ? (i.e. return wire on top vs. return wire on bottom)

You know what, it's funny that you mentioned it because my HID bulb's ceramic is on the top...I re-inserted the bulb with the ceramic @ the bottom and the shadows did go away (though the nipples didn't sit in to the holes). So I even wonder if the projector was installed upside down?

[l69norm]

You know what, it's funny that you mentioned it because my HID bulb's ceramic is on the top...I re-inserted the bulb with the ceramic @ the bottom and the shadows did go away (though the nipples didn't sit in to the holes). So I even wonder if the projector was installed upside down?

The bulb may have been built upside down.

Looking at the back of the projector, the pin (green arrow) should be on the upper left:
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee149/l69norm/TSX-H1-D2S-bulb-projector-reflect-b.jpg

Looking at the h1 HID bulb, the matching pin (green arrow) should also be on the upper left when the return wire (red arrow) is on the bottom:
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee149/l69norm/HID_H1_20HID.jpg

[DJ Trance AZ]

You know what, the projectors are definitely upside down (how they were installed on mine)!! Well I will grab another set of headlight and do another set of retrofit later on...

Your photos are excellent, thank you :)

[l69norm]

I looked the chinese website photos again. Unless my eyes are playing tricks, I think they built the TSX clone projector H1 mount upside down !!

[DJ Trance AZ]

I looked the chinese website photos again. Unless my eyes are playing tricks, I think they built the TSX clone projector H1 mount upside down !!


I was thinking about this when I read your post this AM...Even if I were to flip the projector upside down (back to the appropriate position) I would still get those triangles. Those triangles will now be in the top rather than @ the bottom!!

[l69norm]

I was thinking about this when I read your post this AM...Even if I were to flip the projector upside down (back to the appropriate position) I would still get those triangles. Those triangles will now be in the top rather than @ the bottom!!

You can't flip the clone projector because the shield will be up side down. In other words, all that will happen if you flip the projector is the bright light section will end on top (in people's eyes) and the dark section will be below the cutoff (on the road) - i.e. the opposite of what you want.

What you really want is to flip only the projector bowl (i.e. back half) and leave the shield in the same place (i.e. front half), BUT the shield can only screw on one way for a TSX. It looks to me that the back part of the clone projector was built up side down at the factory.

The TSX shield (green circle) with the mounting screw (red arrow):
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee149/l69norm/shi.jpg

The TSX shield (green circle) mounted in the projector bowl. The mounting screw (red arrow) is only on one side. You can't flip it upside down as there's nothing to mount it to on the other side:
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee149/l69norm/zes.jpg

I took the chinese web site photo and flipped it right side up (blue arrow). The OEM TSX projector is now on the left side. The D2S locating pins are shown (green arrows). This mounts an OEM D2S bulb with the return wire facing down.
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee149/l69norm/comparison.jpg

The TSX clone projector is now on the right side. The H1 mounting pin (red arrow) is now on the wrong side. This is why the return wire is facing up and you have a black shadow in the beam pattern:
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee149/l69norm/comparison-1.jpg


Ok - a little bit of theory:

All the light that hits the road is being reflected from the top part of the bulb. It hits the top of the projector bowl and bounces downwards on the road (yellow lines).

Light from the bottom part of the bulb hits the bottom of the projector bowl and bounces upwards (red lines) - into people's eyes. To stop that from happening, the shield blocks off a portion of the light that would end up being sent towards an oncoming driver (dashed red line). In a good HID projector design, the shield reflects the light back into the bowl where it eventually redirected back to the road. This is why some HID projectors perform much better than others. See the picture below where the shield (blue) stops light from hitting the oncoming driver's eyes (dashed red lines)

If the return wire is on the top, it casts a shadow onto the road (the black triangles).
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee149/l69norm/projector0ji-1.jpg

If the return wire is on the bottom, the shadow ends up on the shield so it doesn't show up on the light pattern:
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee149/l69norm/Copyofprojector0ji-1.jpg

Anyway, back to your problem. If it were me, I would dremel off the locating pins on the H1 HID kit bulbs so that I could install the bulbs flush against the projector with the return wire facing down. I would use the retaining clip to ensure the bulbs stay snug in their position. (Make sure to clean any plastic debris/oil off the bulb surface with alcohol )

On your next retrofit project, I would select an OEM projector that uses standard D2S bulbs. If you do decide to go with another clone projector, get one that won't have any surprises by checking that it is well reviewed like the FX-R and uses standard OEM D2S bulbs

[DJ Trance AZ]

Very nicely explained...I actually did call up The Retrofit Source.com and they do carry the FXR (clone projector) which they recommended...I don't think I will though because of the present experience!!

There is an eBay seller called OEM Xenon Parts (http://cgi.ebay.ca/09-10-Mercedes-E55-Bi-Xenon-HID-KIT-Projectors-Ballast_W0QQitemZ200393972667QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMo tors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2ea8695b bb)...I wonder if they sell authentic parts?

[l69norm]

Very nicely explained...I actually did call up The Retrofit Source.com and they do carry the FXR (clone projector) which they recommended...I don't think I will though because of the present experience!! There is an eBay seller called OEM Xenon Parts (http://cgi.ebay.ca/09-10-Mercedes-E55-Bi-Xenon-HID-KIT-Projectors-Ballast_W0QQitemZ200393972667QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMo tors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2ea8695b bb)...I wonder if they sell authentic parts?

Some of the ebay sellers can be a bit sketchy and some prices can be high. I would periodically check the classified section on HIDplanet as the prices seem more realistic (read the READ ME first). They have some pretty strict rules for buyers and sellers - no bidding or offers are allowed.

Also, check out the ins and outs of certain projectors and ballasts on HIDplanet. For example, your ebay link is for "E55" projectors that use D1S bulbs. D1S is much more expensive (2X) than D2S when it comes time to replace the bulb. E55 is considered a lower end projector, but it has built in hi/lo beam (bi-xenon) which you may or may not want. It's likely 3 wire bi-xenon E55 so it needs extra wiring for hi-beam vs. the older 2 wire E55 (which uses D2S bulbs as well). Also, the E55 has frensel lenses which aren't as desirable as the more clear lenses in other projectors.

If it were me, I would play around with the TSX clone you already have by cutting off the locator pins on the H1 HID kit bulb so it sits flush, although you need to check to see if the retainer is strong enough to hold the bulb firmly in place (without the locator pins). If you can get the H1 bulb into the proper place, the clone probably will have similar performance a real TSX (based on how well the same company did with the FX-R)

If that doesn't work out, I would replace the TSX clone with a real TSX projector (~ $100-$150 a pair) in your existing retro as it should be a straight physical swap. You would also need D2S bulbs (~ $75 a pair ) and adapters for your existing ballasts (likely AMP to D2S ~ $25 ?)

[BobyYoo]

did you deal with Matt at Retrofit source?

if that is the case. watch out, this guy has really bad reputation on hidplanet.

I got screwed by him back in 2006

see post
http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=221355&highlight=#221355

[AA0913]

err, ok,

i have been playing around with my HID lights and it turns out that my H1 bulbs built around EDM shields in JDM HID projectors were built the right way up.

HOWEVER, that forces the GROUNDING RETURN WIRE for the HID bulb to sit in the 12'o-clock orientation. this creates the shadows cast here:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_cQqeYvj8iq0/SvuHXnRFb1I/AAAAAAAAClY/5HRxop8S2F8/s720/IMG_0695.JPG

Now, after turning around the bulb holder, the return wire faces down at the 6 o'clock position, the bulb can then be reinstalled, now 180 degrees opposite from the stock bulb holder.

this is the resulting beam pattern:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_cQqeYvj8iq0/SvuFWqBWHtI/AAAAAAAACkc/uFiEV0Uh1OA/s720/IMG_0939.JPG


So, if you are running HID retros, try to get the Return wire facing down.

[DJ Trance AZ]

Well I still haven't had time to play around with the projector...Thanks for showing the pictures :)

Right now my HID bulb's return wire is still @ the 12 o'clock position, heh.

[EP32k2]

Why are you getting hot spots on the ground with the projectors? It should be a smooth even beam...well smoother anyways.