U of T Law School Question

[pop9751]

Hi there,

I was wondering if U of T Law school accepts summer courses, and also how much they care about the school which one received their undergrad degree from. I would appreciate any advice!

[VivienM]

Hi there,

I was wondering if U of T Law school accepts summer courses, and also how much they care about the school which one received their undergrad degree from. I would appreciate any advice!

Their policy is explained on the web site (i.e. if you do anything unusual, such as summer courses, you should have a reasonable explanation in your personal statement.)... and if you have questions, why not ask them? They're very nice - if you tell them you're considering doing X or Y, and you're concerned about the admissions consequence of either choice, they'll probably look at your info and tell you what your chances of getting in are...

...and yes, they care about the school you got your undergrad degree from, IMO. Maybe a spectacular LSAT will make them overlook it, maybe not.

[UWO Engineer]

Their policy is explained on the web site (i.e. if you do anything unusual, such as summer courses, you should have a reasonable explanation in your personal statement.)... and if you have questions, why not ask them? They're very nice - if you tell them you're considering doing X or Y, and you're concerned about the admissions consequence of either choice, they'll probably look at your info and tell you what your chances of getting in are...

...and yes, they care about the school you got your undergrad degree from, IMO. Maybe a spectacular LSAT will make them overlook it, maybe not.

No.

Law Schools always have been and always will be a numbers game. Most Canadian schools have said they're moving to a "holistic" approach to admissions, which takes into account more then raw numbers. But the fact of the matter is it still is a numbers game. If you have a 4.0 GPA from Windsor, Brock, Queens or UofT it doesn't matter. Hell, I can go to college and gain admission to law school from a god danm fashion program.

They may put some weight on it, but its negligable. It's like saying they care what major you come from, they dont or they give you an extra 1% if your major is decidedly "hard." Doesn't matter either way.

[VivienM]

No.

Law Schools always have been and always will be a numbers game. Most Canadian schools have said they're moving to a "holistic" approach to admissions, which takes into account more then raw numbers. But the fact of the matter is it still is a numbers game. If you have a 4.0 GPA from Windsor, Brock, Queens or UofT it doesn't matter. Hell, I can go to college and gain admission to law school from a god danm fashion program.

They may put some weight on it, but its negligable. It's like saying they care what major you come from, they dont or they give you an extra 1% if your major is decidedly "hard." Doesn't matter either way.

Okay, then explain to me where all the people from Brock or Bishop's or Carleton or Trent or ______________ were in MY law school class? There sure weren't too many.

There are two options:
a) the law school doesn't think too highly of degrees from those universities, so they admit far fewer of their graduates, or
b) the people who go to those universities are morons who get lousy LSAT scores and therefore are not admitted on that basis,
(well, or c) people from those universities don't bother applying.)

If you're telling me it's not a), then you're saying it's b)?

[phomp]

Okay, then explain to me where all the people from Brock or Bishop's or Carleton or Trent or ______________ were in MY law school class? There sure weren't too many.

There are two options:
a) the law school doesn't think too highly of degrees from those universities, so they admit far fewer of their graduates, or
b) the people who go to those universities are morons who get lousy LSAT scores and therefore are not admitted on that basis,
(well, or c) people from those universities don't bother applying.)

If you're telling me it's not a), then you're saying it's b)?
I was looking at the admittance for Osgoode this year, and can not say I disagree with above post. Here are some of the stats (as of July 28/09)...
Entering class of 09.
68% have an Honours degree
17% have an Graduate degree
11% have an ordinary B.A.

Average LSAT
90+ 32%
80-89 52%
<80 16%

Prelaw Study
Humanities 24%
Social Sciences 44%
Pure Sciences 13%
Business 19%

CGPA
3.70+ 38%
3.50-3.69 29%
3.33-3.49 22%
<3.33 11%

I get the vibe (and could be wrong) that the poster you are responding to has something against the lawschools or the process of them, based on posts on this forum anyway...

I would like an example of someone who got into a law school with a diploma in fashion...

[pop9751]

hi guys umm well ok i actually currently attend u of t for buisness but i'm thinking of switching to like the arts b/c last year i kinda just picked buisness (not sure why)and its not hard or anything but i enjoy things like english and like peace and conflict studies etc. better. and so i was thinking if i should just switch to that at u of t or if i should just take a possibly easier route(based on info i have read) and go to york where maybe possibly a b.a would be easier to get..... anyways thanks for your input so far.

ps. good idea bout calling them i shall possibly try that (except for the york question obviously lol)
pps. the only reason i would take summer school is to just try and catch up with the new degree's prereq's so i wouldn't fall behind + if possible finish my degree earlier (i am not a fan of school in general)

[phomp]

hi guys umm well ok i actually currently attend u of t for buisness but i'm thinking of switching to like the arts b/c last year i kinda just picked buisness (not sure why)and its not hard or anything but i enjoy things like english and like peace and conflict studies etc. better. and so i was thinking if i should just switch to that at u of t or if i should just take a possibly easier route(based on info i have read) and go to york where maybe possibly a b.a would be easier to get..... anyways thanks for your input so far.

ps. good idea bout calling them i shall possibly try that (except for the york question obviously lol)
pps. the only reason i would take summer school is to just try and catch up with the new degree's prereq's so i wouldn't fall behind + if possible finish my degree earlier (i am not a fan of school in general) Well a Business degree is superior to an arts degree (if you are seeking employment after the undergrad).

If you enjoy english and conflict studies and think you will get better marks at it than switch. You are better off staying at U of T if your plan is to apply to U of T's law program (not sure about credit transfers or how far you are into your program). IDK how much easier a undergrad is at York as opposed to U of T, in an identical program but it is probably not much of a big difference in a english/conflict studies program. IMO, if you can not get the marks in the undergrad at UofT to get into law school than it will be the same at York. Plus your LSAT score is of signifigant importance, and the school you attend does not change that.

Good luck!

[pop9751]

actually im in first year lol but thanks for the advice! you guys are very useful + ps. i dont think arts would be hard at u of t but im just saying if there's an easier way to spend my next 3 years i rather do things that way if you understand what im saying lol

[phomp]

actually im in first year lol but thanks for the advice! you guys are very useful + ps. i dont think arts would be hard at u of t but im just saying if there's an easier way to spend my next 3 years i rather do things that way if you understand what im saying lol

Oh, was not aware you were in 1st year. Then switching is not a big deal, though I do not understand why you would want to move from U of T to York. It probably will not be that much easier if it is easier at all. It does depend on the courses and professors.
As for summer courses, you can take them and they are looked at. From what I understand (someone else would have to confirm) they look at your GPA mainily from your 3000/4000 level classes (3rd, 4th year classes) but your overall GPA is looked at.

[pop9751]

ohh ok thanks so much, just out of curiousity are you a u of t student yoursefl?

[VivienM]

From what I understand (someone else would have to confirm) they look at your GPA mainily from your 3000/4000 level classes (3rd, 4th year classes) but your overall GPA is looked at.

That can't be.

See, they're making phone calls to offer admission to people in late November, early December. The actual Big Huge offer packages are mailed out early January...

If you're currently in 4th year undergrad, what 4th year grades can they be looking at in mid-November? :)

(And BTW, this is why anybody who applies to law school without having an LSAT score already graded and ready is playing a very risky game. MANY admissions decisions are made way before the December LSAT results are in...)

(Wow, this is my 5000th post.)

[bkustra]

...and yes, they care about the school you got your undergrad degree from, IMO. Maybe a spectacular LSAT will make them overlook it, maybe not.
No.

Law Schools always have been and always will be a numbers game. Most Canadian schools have said they're moving to a "holistic" approach to admissions, which takes into account more then raw numbers. But the fact of the matter is it still is a numbers game. If you have a 4.0 GPA from Windsor, Brock, Queens or UofT it doesn't matter. Hell, I can go to college and gain admission to law school from a god danm fashion program.

They may put some weight on it, but its negligable. It's like saying they care what major you come from, they dont or they give you an extra 1% if your major is decidedly "hard." Doesn't matter either way.

I had a meeting with the chair of the U of T Law Admissions Committee roughly three years ago. He asked what school I went to for undergrad. I told him and his reply was along the lines of "Good, we have had better luck from [that school] than other schools [in the area]." So while law schools absolutely take students from everywhere, the reputation of the school does matter.

[help_questions]

That can't be.

See, they're making phone calls to offer admission to people in late November, early December. The actual Big Huge offer packages are mailed out early January...

If you're currently in 4th year undergrad, what 4th year grades can they be looking at in mid-November? :)

(Wow, this is my 5000th post.)

a very point that is consistent with that I have been told by others
that said, it is exactly what I am doing

[pop9751]

I had a meeting with the chair of the U of T Law Admissions Committee roughly three years ago. He asked what school I went to for undergrad. I told him and his reply was along the lines of "Good, we have had better luck from [that school] than other schools [in the area]." So while law schools absolutely take students from everywhere, the reputation of the school does matter.

...out of curiousity what school did u go to for your undergrad/did you get into law school?

[bkustra]

...out of curiousity what school did u go to for your undergrad/did you get into law school?

I'm currently a third year law student at U of T.

I'm going to refrain from disclosing where I went to undergrad.

[pop9751]

I'm currently a third year law student at U of T.

I'm going to refrain from disclosing where I went to undergrad.

oh really that's so cool! so are you enjoying law school?

[cloverfield]

Dang
Quick question, i want to go to uoft law hopefully after i graduate. Currently im in second year but my first year gpa hasn't been all that great and I'm picking it up alot better in second year. On top of that I am taking a 90% course load this year, and plan to take 100% in the coming years. How badly will this affect me if i apply to uoft law?
I haven't taken the lsat yet, but i plan to in october 2010.

[supreme_sole]

I'm currently working on my Masters in International relation/Public Policy, i was wondering what kind of GPA laws school are looking for from students applying from Grad school? Does it differ if you want to attend law school part time?

[Octavius]

Dang
Quick question, i want to go to uoft law hopefully after i graduate. Currently im in second year but my first year gpa hasn't been all that great and I'm picking it up alot better in second year. On top of that I am taking a 90% course load this year, and plan to take 100% in the coming years. How badly will this affect me if i apply to uoft law?
I haven't taken the lsat yet, but i plan to in october 2010.

If I recall correctly, UofT places its emphasis on the last three years of study and you are expected to take a 100% course load. If you can give a good reason why you didn't one year, perhaps they'll overlook this blip in your application.

Good Luck on the LSAT. If you want UofT, you're going to have to kill the test in order to have a shot at getting in.

I'm currently working on my Masters in International relation/Public Policy, i was wondering what kind of GPA laws school are looking for from students applying from Grad school? Does it differ if you want to attend law school part time?

Many law schools will not take your Masters GPA into account. Typically, the fact that you have a Masters is seen as a "soft factor" in your favor (ie, all things being equal between you and another applicant except that you have a Masters, you'll probably get the spot).

Typically, to go to law school part time, you need to convince the admissions committee that you have other obligations that you cannot escape from which would preclude you from attending law school full time. Very few students attend law school on a part time basis - it is best to "immerse" students in the law on a daily and nearly full-time basis when teaching the law to them.

Each law school is different though.

[bkustra]

oh really that's so cool! so are you enjoying law school?

It's a ton of fun. For the first two years I couldn't imagine doing anything else. But my debt is creeping towards six figures and right now I just really want to work.

Dang
Quick question, i want to go to uoft law hopefully after i graduate. Currently im in second year but my first year gpa hasn't been all that great and I'm picking it up alot better in second year. On top of that I am taking a 90% course load this year, and plan to take 100% in the coming years. How badly will this affect me if i apply to uoft law?
I haven't taken the lsat yet, but i plan to in october 2010.

I would echo some of the things VivienM said:

... and if you have questions, why not ask them? They're very nice - if you tell them you're considering doing X or Y, and you're concerned about the admissions consequence of either choice, they'll probably look at your info and tell you what your chances of getting in are...

The fact of the matter is that there are only a handful of people in the world who can tell you with any certainty how the various intangibles factor together, and those are the individuals on the Admissions Committee. There's 3 third-year students, a few faculty members and maybe some administrative staff.

On a personal note, apparently course loads below 100% aren't fatal to your application. I got university credit for some IB courses, and took summer school after freshman year (because I couldn't find a full-time job), so I ended up only taking an 80% course load in third year (because I didn't need anymore to graduate on time). But who knows how that all factored into my admission decision. Certainly not me, heh.

[iradumass]

I had a meeting with the chair of the U of T Law Admissions Committee roughly three years ago. He asked what school I went to for undergrad. I told him and his reply was along the lines of "Good, we have had better luck from [that school] than other schools [in the area]." So while law schools absolutely take students from everywhere, the reputation of the school does matter.

I just had to emphasize the hole in your argument.

Maybe the schools in "that area" had students that weren't interested, did not have enough high marks, were geared to another profession, or had significantly less students than your school etc.

How do you get from having better luck in one school than another and then ultimately imply that its the school's reputation that explains the difference in the acceptance rate?

There are so many possibilities, reputation included.

[bkustra]

Maybe the schools in "that area" had students that weren't interested

I guess it seems a bit far-fetched to suggest that students from schools in an area just aren't interested in law school. Almost all universities have some sort of social sciences program (economics, political science, etc.), which are traditional feeder programs for law schools. If you want to exclude the Canadian universities which don't have social sciences programs or where students don't write the LSAT, that's cool, but that would be a very short list (I actually can't think of any) so I don't think it would really change much in my argument.

did not have enough high marks

All post-secondary schools have students with high marks. That's just a fact.

were geared to another profession

Law schools give equal admittance treatment to all undergraduate disciplines and they argue that no particular undergraduate discipline prepares you more or less for law school than any other discipline. I believe this. Some of the strongest students in my year are engineers.

had significantly less students than your school

The quote I cited reflects the likelihood of admission from a particular school, not the total number of students who will be admitted from any particular school. So if we have school A with 30 000 students, and school B with 2000 students, and the law school has had better luck with students from school B, then the quote still fits.

How do you get from having better luck in one school than another and then ultimately imply that its the school's reputation that explains the difference in the acceptance rate?

Maybe my conclusion was worded a touch too strongly, but this just seems like the most logical conclusion to me. The idea that a 3.5 from McGill is indicative of the same quality of student as a 3.5 from UPEI just doesn't fit with how most people view post-secondary education in Canada.

[MizTEcK]

i concur with the notion that law schools are numbers game. trust me there are enough people from backwater universities in law schools, no less than ones from majors

[phomp]

That can't be.

See, they're making phone calls to offer admission to people in late November, early December. The actual Big Huge offer packages are mailed out early January...

If you're currently in 4th year undergrad, what 4th year grades can they be looking at in mid-November? :)

(And BTW, this is why anybody who applies to law school without having an LSAT score already graded and ready is playing a very risky game. MANY admissions decisions are made way before the December LSAT results are in...)


Good post. I was not sure, so I put in brackets someone may have to correct me which you did. Good info.

I was thinking of starting at Royal Roads to finish a B.A. In Justice studies, then apply to law school. If the application is due in November for the following year. I would be applying in my final year (in November), so it would be best to write the LSAT and my grades from the previous year would be looked at in my application?