Globalive Dead?

[champlinD]

Globealive can not sell cellphone carrier services?
CRTC says its not a Canadian owned company.

Anybody with more info or links. I just heard this on BNN.
trying to find links on their web site.

[Madchester]

^

This is on the most recent hits of Google News.

If the Big Three were planning to appeal a Globalive-winning CRTC decision.. Globalive shouldn't hesitate returning the favour.

[Longobongo]

Just read the decision on Hofo, the CRTC rejected Gobalive's application because of its foreign-ownership

Sad day indeed, my guess they either appeal or just reapply with a revised ownership structure. Looks like they won't be launching this calendar year.

[Pete Jones]

Read the decision here:

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2009/2009-678.htm

As disappointed as I am about this, based on the facts outlined in the decision, the CRTC basically arrived at the right decision.

Will it kill Windmobile? No. I can't imagine they didn't see this coming. This must either have another plan up their sleeves or they have some very powerful friends in cabinet.

--Pete

[akademiks]

The CRTC is a joke..

I hate these bastards with every ounce of my being.

[Zero1]

Read the decision here:

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2009/2009-678.htm

As disappointed as I am about this, based on the facts outlined in the decision, the CRTC basically arrived at the right decision.

Will it kill Windmobile? No. I can't imagine they didn't see this coming. This must either have another plan up their sleeves or they have some very powerful friends in cabinet.

--Pete

Well it's at least been stated that Globalive must change ownership and reverse the shareholding.

Then we can expect Wind Mobile services up and running.

[champlinD]

Thanks for info.

[Lulz]

I HATE THEM
HATE HATE.

Meanwhile the top guys are relaxing on some mansions on remote islands from the money bribed by trio of money grabbers.

Robbers it is.

[RiCHC3]

There's still a few others joining the market, but WIND was definitely the most promising on a nationwide scale.

[Evil Baby]

Yeah it's too bad they didn't make it. I was really hoping they get her as soon as possible.

[rapsrealm]

All this means at this point is that there is going to be a delay which is what TELUS has been trying to accomplish. Globalive still owns the spectrum that they purchased for $143 million, but it will be interesting to see if they can change up the ownership structure to get the green light.

[Evil Baby]

All this means at this point is that there is going to be a delay which is what TELUS has been trying to accomplish. Globalive still owns the spectrum that they purchased for $143 million, but it will be interesting to see if they can change up the ownership structure to get the green light.

One would imagine they really wanted their network up in time for the Vancouver Olympics. I certainly don't see that happening now.

[nyererei]

One would imagine they really wanted their network up in time for the Vancouver Olympics. I certainly don't see that happening now.

Yea, i think this will set them back into the new year. I would assume some time is needed for compliance with the ownership technicality. Then additional time for the crtc to re-check Winds corporate structure.

[Pete Jones]

One would imagine they really wanted their network up in time for the Vancouver Olympics. I certainly don't see that happening now.

I don't believe Vancouver was in their plans until Spring 2010.

Besides, there wouldn't be much olympic-related roaming business to be had.

--Pete

[Evil Baby]

I don't believe Vancouver was in their plans until Spring 2010.

Besides, there wouldn't be much olympic-related roaming business to be had.

--Pete

There is going to be a huge influx of tourist. Regardless of roaming business(which they might have none other than Tmobile) there is probably more potential there to make money in a few month than anywhere else.

Even if it's just people using your sim card in their unlocked phone, or people buying cheap pre-paid phones.

[asdfvcx]

The CRTC is a joke..

I hate these bastards with every ounce of my being.
The CRTC applied the law that the democratic Canadian parliament passed.

Do you think it would be a better if the CRTC decided that Canadian laws didn't apply to them and they could just make up whatever laws they want?


If you don't like the current foreign ownership laws blame the government, not the CRTC.

[jyeung]

There is going to be a huge influx of tourist. Regardless of roaming business(which they might have none other than Tmobile) there is probably more potential there to make money in a few month than anywhere else.

Even if it's just people using your sim card in their unlocked phone, or people buying cheap pre-paid phones.

Globalive/WIND bought AWS spectrum - and the only major provider that uses AWS spectrum is T-Mobile USA with 3G.

Thus, unlocked customers won't be a major source of revenue even if they launch. The amount of 1700Mhz-capable phones out there are limited.

- Jason

[Lulz]

Even if it's just people using your sim card in their unlocked phone, or people buying cheap pre-paid phones.

The issue is that WIND will operate on AWS spectrum for their 3G services...1700MHz for uplink and 2100MHz for downlink.
Only WIND and T-Mobile in USA use that band.

Rest of the world (North America exluded) uses 900/1800MHz for 2G (aka GSM) and 2100MHz for 3G (aka HSPA). In North America, we use 850/1900MHz for 2G and 3G.

So when talking about Olympics and roaming revenue, the only people who can possibly bring revenue to WIND is American T-Mobile users. The rest of the world will not be able to connect to WIND's network.

EDIT: jyeung beat me to it.

[Evil Baby]

Globalive/WIND bought AWS spectrum - and the only major provider that uses AWS spectrum is T-Mobile USA with 3G.

Thus, unlocked customers won't be a major source of revenue even if they launch. The amount of 1700Mhz-capable phones out there are limited.

- Jason

The issue is that WIND will operate on AWS spectrum for their 3G services...1700MHz for uplink and 2100MHz for downlink.
Only WIND and T-Mobile in USA use that band.

Rest of the world (North America exluded) uses 900/1800MHz for 2G (aka GSM) and 2100MHz for 3G (aka HSPA). In North America, we use 850/1900MHz for 2G and 3G.

So when talking about Olympics and roaming revenue, the only people who can possibly bring revenue to WIND is American T-Mobile users. The rest of the world will not be able to connect to WIND's network.

EDIT: jyeung beat me to it.

my bad. I knew the 3g frequency was different but I thought 2g phones would still work on it. Regardless I would still think they would want to have it up and running there just for pre-paid customers. There will be millions of people in the city. You're bound to get a few customers from that, especially if you have decent rates, something we all know Rogers/Telus/Bell wont have.

[Sgt_Strider]

The CRTC is a joke..

I hate these bastards with every ounce of my being.

I don't think it's really the CRTC's fault, they're just following the law passed by Parliament. Let's put it like this, if we don't have rules like this, then rich foreign companies that are like a million time bigger than Telus and Rogers would come in and initiate a price war that Telus and Rogers can't win. Then they would go out of business and these foreign companies would grab massive marketshare from them. While it may be in our interests to have more competition regardless of whether it's foreign of domestic, there are a lot of jobs at stake here. Furthermore, foreign companies tends to repatriate their profits.

[mada726]

The CRTC can fly in their roflcopters soi soi soi soi soi soi soi soi soi soi soi........

[sexyj]

I don't think it's really the CRTC's fault, they're just following the law passed by Parliament. Let's put it like this, if we don't have rules like this, then rich foreign companies that are like a million time bigger than Telus and Rogers would come in and initiate a price war that Telus and Rogers can't win. Then they would go out of business and these foreign companies would grab massive marketshare from them. While it may be in our interests to have more competition regardless of whether it's foreign of domestic, there are a lot of jobs at stake here. Furthermore, foreign companies tends to repatriate their profits.

doesn't bell outsource their support to india anyway ?

[Lulz]

The CRTC can fly in their roflcopters soi soi soi soi soi soi soi soi soi soi soi........

winner

[VivienM]

I don't think it's really the CRTC's fault, they're just following the law passed by Parliament.

A lot of Canadians make fun of Americans because, at the end of the day, the doctors, pharmaceutical companies and health insurers always win the policy debates there. People run promising reform, and at the end of the day when the president signs the final bill, those three groups just get richer at taxpayer expense.

I'm going to put it to you that the 'cultural' industries are the equivalent in Canada. It doesn't matter whether the government is Liberal, Conservative, or whatever, at the end of the day, the CRTC and its various nationalistic mandates (always zealously-followed) seem to always be there.
And it's usually always the same people who win: Big Telecom and Big Broadcasting (Global, CTV, etc... who would need a new business model if the CRTC a) permitted Canadian ABC/CBS/NBC affiliates, and b) stopped requiring simsubbing).
Not sure about Big Cable - I think they've had their series of losses against Big Broadcasting.

And, of course, given Big Broadcasting controls the media, good luck to the politician who openly campaigns on fighting Big Broadcasting. He/she'll probably be looking like Sarah Palin 2.0 by the time election day rolls around...

[Sgt_Strider]

A lot of Canadians make fun of Americans because, at the end of the day, the doctors, pharmaceutical companies and health insurers always win the policy debates there. People run promising reform, and at the end of the day when the president signs the final bill, those three groups just get richer at taxpayer expense.

I'm going to put it to you that the 'cultural' industries are the equivalent in Canada. It doesn't matter whether the government is Liberal, Conservative, or whatever, at the end of the day, the CRTC and its various nationalistic mandates (always zealously-followed) seem to always be there.
And it's usually always the same people who win: Big Telecom and Big Broadcasting (Global, CTV, etc... who would need a new business model if the CRTC a) permitted Canadian ABC/CBS/NBC affiliates, and b) stopped requiring simsubbing).
Not sure about Big Cable - I think they've had their series of losses against Big Broadcasting.

And, of course, given Big Broadcasting controls the media, good luck to the politician who openly campaigns on fighting Big Broadcasting. He/she'll probably be looking like Sarah Palin 2.0 by the time election day rolls around...

What can I say, I agree with you. Look at the bailouts our government has given out, especially to the auto industry in Ontario. It's pretty sad that taxpayers usually gets the shaft, but it is what it is. I just learn to live with it.

[Pete Jones]

I don't think it's really the CRTC's fault, they're just following the law passed by Parliament. Let's put it like this, if we don't have rules like this, then rich foreign companies that are like a million time bigger than Telus and Rogers would come in and initiate a price war that Telus and Rogers can't win. Then they would go out of business and these foreign companies would grab massive marketshare from them. While it may be in our interests to have more competition regardless of whether it's foreign of domestic, there are a lot of jobs at stake here. Furthermore, foreign companies tends to repatriate their profits.

In fact, for what it's worth, Orascom is the 15th largest cellphone provider in the world. Even at that, they are 10 times the size of Rogers.

That might give you a reason why Bell/Rogers/Telus were so opposed to Globalive setting up shop here.

But in terms of the CRTC, what it all comes down to is that in Canada, the airwaves are considered public property. The spirit of the law is to make sure that those who effectively control the airwaves, regardless of their motives, are Canadian.

Yeah, it sucks. But those are the rules.

--Pete

[mlerner]

The CRTC applied the law that the democratic Canadian parliament passed.

Do you think it would be a better if the CRTC decided that Canadian laws didn't apply to them and they could just make up whatever laws they want?


If you don't like the current foreign ownership laws blame the government, not the CRTC.

The CRTC and IC ruled that Globalive has not violated the foreign ownership restrictions. It was only the CRTC that decided they were not Canadian owned and rejected Globalive on that basis.

[Pete Jones]

The CRTC and IC ruled that Globalive has not violated the foreign ownership restrictions. It was only the CRTC that decided they were not Canadian owned and rejected Globalive on that basis.

Ummm, does anyone else see an error in the above statement?

It's not just ownership, but control.

Among the big issues were:

1. Orascom had influence over the selection of directors of the company.

2. Orascom held the majority of the debt. One could argue that if one holds the majority of the debt (debt which can be called on demand) one has defacto control over the debtor.

--Pete



--Pete

[eightyeight]

I hate to say it, but CRTC made the right call here.

It's just funny that when the CRTC makes a bad choice it benefits the big three. When they make a good choice it also benefits the big three.

[Zero1]

It's just funny that when the CRTC makes a bad choice it benefits the big three. When they make a good choice it also benefits the big three.

Unfortunately, this statement holds true to about every decision they have made.

[carmaster]

This puts a huge dent in Wind Mobile's plan since they have already invested so much in terms of infrastructure, hiring employees, and ofcourse the spectrum. They will figure it out and come back stronger than before.

[MasterXan]

once again, the failure of big government.

[Zero1]

once again, the failure of big government.

Unfortunately, we consumers can't do nothing about it.

[VivienM]

Unfortunately, we consumers can't do nothing about it.

In THEORY, we can start lobbying our politicians. Tell them we're tired of the sway that Big Media and Big Telecom has in this country.

I'd be curious how Cabinet would decide the Globalive appeal if 300K demonstrators showed up on Parliament Hill demanding wireless competition... :)

[Zero1]

In THEORY, we can start lobbying our politicians. Tell them we're tired of the sway that Big Media and Big Telecom has in this country.

I'd be curious how Cabinet would decide the Globalive appeal if 300K demonstrators showed up on Parliament Hill demanding wireless competition... :)

I would join. Hopefully it would be enough to piss them off and change their decision.

[emcq29]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/ottawa-to-review-globalive-ruling/article1345970/


there is hope

[champlinD]

nice find

[Octavius]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/ottawa-to-review-globalive-ruling/article1345970/


there is hope

Conservatives better overrule the CRTC. I'm sick and tired of the lack of competition here in Canada.

CRTC and Cabinet have consistently given Bell/Telus/Rogers what they wanted though, so I do have my doubts that anything of relevance will come from cabinet review. Hopefully I'm wrong about this.

[darkman007e]

It's funny how when it's time to copy the american for soemthing that will prevent the canadian from being screwed up, we don't follow the american and instead we have to stupide rules.

Like le CRTC backing Bell the downloads caps while in the meantime, the FCC are doing everything possible to keep the net neutrality.

And again with this stupid dump law against foreign company, T-Mobile is German and they are dealing in the US. Our great goverment thinks again it's better if we get screwed over by a canadian company. Like if we were not already screwed over with high gas price, high alcohol and high price of pretty much everything.

And I still don't get it. Why bother selling the spectrum to Globalive while the CRTC already knew they where backed by a foreign company ?

[Evil Baby]

Conservatives better overrule the CRTC. I'm sick and tired of the lack of competition here in Canada.

CRTC and Cabinet have consistently given Bell/Telus/Rogers what they wanted though, so I do have my doubts that anything of relevance will come from cabinet review. Hopefully I'm wrong about this.

If they overturn the ruling they will have gained my vote for the next election.

Unless of course they royally F something else up.

[Zero1]

If they overturn the ruling they will have gained my vote for the next election.

Unless of course they royally F something else up.

LMAO. +1. Took the words out of my mouth.

[Madchester]

nice find

What I find more intriguing is that the Globe (co-owned by Bell) has this story tucked away from the top headlines. The same story's been at the top of CBCNews for the past day, with over 200+ user comments.

The Globe's really clandestine in the way it reports on issues that affect its parent company. They did the same thing with last week's CRTC throttling ruling. Had it up for an hour or so on the top headlines - then hid them from view as if the story never occured. And it wasn't like Balloon Boy was making news anymore... :evil:

[Sgt_Strider]

In fact, for what it's worth, Orascom is the 15th largest cellphone provider in the world. Even at that, they are 10 times the size of Rogers.

That might give you a reason why Bell/Rogers/Telus were so opposed to Globalive setting up shop here.

But in terms of the CRTC, what it all comes down to is that in Canada, the airwaves are considered public property. The spirit of the law is to make sure that those who effectively control the airwaves, regardless of their motives, are Canadian.

Yeah, it sucks. But those are the rules.

--Pete

That's what I was saying earlier.

[Sgt_Strider]

It's funny how when it's time to copy the american for soemthing that will prevent the canadian from being screwed up, we don't follow the american and instead we have to stupide rules.

Like le CRTC backing Bell the downloads caps while in the meantime, the FCC are doing everything possible to keep the net neutrality.

And again with this stupid dump law against foreign company, T-Mobile is German and they are dealing in the US. Our great goverment thinks again it's better if we get screwed over by a canadian company. Like if we were not already screwed over with high gas price, high alcohol and high price of pretty much everything.

I know, I'm quite disappointed by this.

And I still don't get it. Why bother selling the spectrum to Globalive while the CRTC already knew they where backed by a foreign company ?

Yea, isn't that kind of dumb? I mean, shouldn't the CRTC knew how this would end up? It's not like the bid from WIND wasn't crystal clear to them on who their backers were.