Aeroplan is a rip off - why do they charge so much for flights?

[boomie]

Trying to book a flight to Miami for either 4 days or 7 in Nov - Feb 2010. Everytime I check how many points it will cost, it tells me 62,000 miles +. Thats nuts. It use to 25,000 round trip, now its more than double that.

Have they changed there reward system?

[xitan]

Not sure what dates you checked but there is plenty of available dates for 25k rewards. November 25th to December 2nd and December 2nd-9th is available.

[boomie]

good point. I'm trying to do a satruday to saturday or Sunday to Sunday.

[insanity]

Aside from the points, the taxes are a rip off as well.

[Pete_Coach]

Aside from the points, the taxes are a rip off as well.
Not an Aeroplan issue. Taxes are for everyone, even if you buy the ticket.

[Badger]

At least you have the options to book something.

With AsiaMiles, any trans-continental flight needs to be booked way in advance and there are so many black out dates.

I find that if you are using your Aeroplan miles to book on carriers other than Air Canada, it should be a lot easier.

I have seen flights like this:
YVR-YYZ-MCO on Air Canada for 62.5K miles
YVR-DEN-MCO on United for 25K miles

These are all found on the aeroplan website.

[asdfvcx]

Have they changed there reward system?
Aeroplan only offers a limited amount of seats at their "Classic" point levels. There's nothing new about this, it's always been like this.

In the past when these seats were going, you just couldn't get seats. But they made a change a couple of years ago so that when these seats are gone, they'll offer more seats but at a much higher point level.


So, this is actually a small improvement, although I can understand why it doesn't seem like one.

[Arrgh]

Aeroplan only offers a limited amount of seats at their "Classic" point levels. There's nothing new about this, it's always been like this.

In the past when these seats were going, you just couldn't get seats. But they made a change a couple of years ago so that when these seats are gone, they'll offer more seats but at a much higher point level.


So, this is actually a small improvement, although I can understand why it doesn't seem like one.
To my understanding, they actually decreased the number of classic seats available, while making a few more seats available for higher points. Aeroplan Inc. come out ahead while the aeroplan point holders lose. Overall they advertised that they made in total more seats available.

[bilibulu]

Not an Aeroplan issue. Taxes are for everyone, even if you buy the ticket.

I don't entirely agree with this one.;)

What Aeroplan calls "taxes" are in fact a combination of:
1. Real taxes (which everyone pays even if you buy the ticket)
2. Fuel surcharges (Air Canada has eliminated them for domestic and transborder flights and yet Aeroplan chooses to still charge them:mad:)
And the fuel surcharges are not consistent. If you redeem at the Classic plus level which requires more Aeroplan points, the surcharge is lower than if you redeem at Classic level. Therefore this fuel surcharge thing seems arbitrary to me.

[bilibulu]

To my understanding, they actually decreased the number of classic seats available, while making a few more seats available for higher points. Aeroplan Inc. come out ahead while the aeroplan point holders lose. Overall they advertised that they made in total more seats available.

I haven't noticed the decrease of classic seats. If you redeem in Y class, it's relatively easy to get a seat if you're flexible. But who would use 5x or 9x more points to redeem the classic plus seats?

Thanks to the ability to book reward seats as long as a seat is available for super elite Aeroplan members, I don't have this problem.:D

[Arrgh]

I haven't noticed the decrease of classic seats. If you redeem in Y class, it's relatively easy to get a seat if you're flexible. But who would use 5x or 9x more points to redeem the classic plus seats?

I have noticed decrease of classic seats. Was looking to book tickets for Aug. 23/10 for YYZ - LAS or PHX, and LAX - YYZ, for Sept. 5. The AC tickets are all out. Lots of UA and US tickets though, but they all require connection and baggage fees.

Last year when I was looking for similar tickets, there were still lots of AC seats around Jan.-Feb. timeframe. I eventually booked in Feb/09. Maybe it just happens that many people have booked AC flights a lot earlier, but it's supposed to be economic downturn ?!

[Arrgh]

I don't entirely agree with this one.;)

What Aeroplan calls "taxes" are in fact a combination of:
1. Real taxes (which everyone pays even if you buy the ticket)
2. Fuel surcharges (Air Canada has eliminated them for domestic and transborder flights and yet Aeroplan chooses to still charge them:mad:)
And the fuel surcharges are not consistent. If you redeem at the Classic plus level which requires more Aeroplan points, the surcharge is lower than if you redeem at Classic level. Therefore this fuel surcharge thing seems arbitrary to me.

Iv'e actually compared the taxes/fees charged for redeeming Aeroplan tickets vs buying. The taxes/fees for Aeroplan tickets for exactly the same flights always come out higher. So Aeroplan somehow tack on other charges.

[asdfvcx]

I have noticed decrease of classic seats. Was looking to book tickets for Aug. 23/10 for YYZ - LAS or PHX, and LAX - YYZ, for Sept. 5. The AC tickets are all out. Lots of UA and US tickets though, but they all require connection and baggage fees.

Last year when I was looking for similar tickets, there were still lots of AC seats around Jan.-Feb. timeframe. I eventually booked in Feb/09.
I think it makes quite a bit of sense that reward tickets are harder to get in August than in January and February. August is a peak travelling period, and much of January and February are some of the slowest times of the year.

Reward tickets during the summer peak or around Christmas have always needed to be redeemed quite a bit in advance. There's nothing new about that.

[mudd_stuffin]

I think it makes quite a bit of sense that reward tickets are harder to get in August than in January and February. August is a peak travelling period, and much of January and February are some of the slowest times of the year.

Reward tickets during the summer peak or around Christmas have always needed to be redeemed quite a bit in advance. There's nothing new about that.

+1

Arrgh is also looking at going Labour Day for next year which is a very busy day within the peak travelling period... I agree that it is nothing new.

As for the decrease of the classic awards - it used to be that 10% of the seats were made available. The 10% was not on every flight but basically 10% of the seats overall. So for instance, a 1pm flight YVR-YYZ may have 2 seats whereas a 6am flight YVR-YYZ may have 12 seats... then when averaged out, that would work out to 10%.

When they introduced the Classic Plus award, the classic seats were lowered to 8% whereas 7% were made available at the Classic Plus level... not sure where they stand now.

The key here is to be flexible. I know that a connection is not ideal but keep in mind that perhaps a partner carrier may serve the same route. For instance, YYZ-FRA is served by both AC and LH and it would not be uncommon to find lower "taxes" on a partner ticket than AC's.

[nalababe]

We have never had any problem redeeming rewards....so I have no complaints.

Now we do book in advance....and, to ensure that you get access to all of the tickets, do use the phone, not just the online tool.

Two months ago we booked our Toronto, Beijing, Singapore, HK, Toronto flight which came to $200 a ticket for taxes (and 75k miles) and fuel etc.

When we booked Australia, AC was sold out, but no issue with United (Vancouver vs LAX connection)
No problem booking Heathrow in the summer
No problem booking Nassau in the Winter

Now we do try to be flexible....

[Arrgh]

I think it makes quite a bit of sense that reward tickets are harder to get in August than in January and February. August is a peak travelling period, and much of January and February are some of the slowest times of the year.

Reward tickets during the summer peak or around Christmas have always needed to be redeemed quite a bit in advance. There's nothing new about that.

+1
Arrgh is also looking at going Labour Day for next year which is a very busy day within the peak travelling period... I agree that it is nothing new.

Perhaps I didn't make it clear. This year I booked tickets for late Aug., and Labour day weekend. When I was looking in Jan.-Feb. of this year (time when I was searching, not booking for Jan.-Feb. flights) for those Aug.-Sept. flights, there were still availlable. Too bad I didn't get vacation approved until later, when I was only able to book AC outbound direct but coming back had to go on connection with UA.

So now I'm looking again (Sept.-Oct. time doing the search) for Aug.-Sept. flights of next year. The AC direct tickets are all gone, same with AC connection tickets. Only US and UA connection tickets left. This is Sept.-Oct. timeframe I'm looking.

[mudd_stuffin]

Perhaps I didn't make it clear. This year I booked tickets for late Aug., and Labour day weekend. When I was looking in Jan.-Feb. of this year (time when I was searching, not booking for Jan.-Feb. flights) for those Aug.-Sept. flights, there were still availlable. Too bad I didn't get vacation approved until later, when I was only able to book AC outbound direct but coming back had to go on connection with UA.

So now I'm looking again (Sept.-Oct. time doing the search) for Aug.-Sept. flights of next year. The AC direct tickets are all gone, same with AC connection tickets. Only US and UA connection tickets left. This is Sept.-Oct. timeframe I'm looking.

I was basing my observation on your second search... it is probably just not out of the ordinary that the seats are gone. Perhaps you were luckier to have found inventory in your first search.

The other thing you should keep in mind is that your first search was conducted when the economy was at its low... so people would have been less likely to go on vacation. Now that the economy is supposed to have recovered (or is on its way to recovery), you would have more people travelling even if it is a year out. The last point is that there are a lot of people with a lot of Aeroplan points starting to expire in 2013, so inventory should theoretically dry up faster as those people are starting to redeem the otherwise expiring points.

[Arrgh]

As for the decrease of the classic awards - it used to be that 10% of the seats were made available. The 10% was not on every flight but basically 10% of the seats overall. So for instance, a 1pm flight YVR-YYZ may have 2 seats whereas a 6am flight YVR-YYZ may have 12 seats... then when averaged out, that would work out to 10%.

When they introduced the Classic Plus award, the classic seats were lowered to 8% whereas 7% were made available at the Classic Plus level... not sure where they stand now.
Yap. So Aeroplan did decrease the number of seats for classic tickets. Also, the red-eye flights are typically the ones with the most % of reward seats.

AC almost went bankrupt these last few months. That's why they came to some arrangement with advances from Aeroplan, with some terms undisclosed. Who knows if they decrease classic ticket % again.

AC also just gone thru an offering that drastically diluted the common shares, to raise capital and avoid bankrupcy. That's where Aeroplan is smart in trying to diversify for more partners for reward earning and redemption.


The key here is to be flexible. I know that a connection is not ideal but keep in mind that perhaps a partner carrier may serve the same route. For instance, YYZ-FRA is served by both AC and LH and it would not be uncommon to find lower "taxes" on a partner ticket than AC's.
I don't mind the connection as much as the baggage fee. AC allows 2 bags within NA, but US and UA charge $25 for first bag and $35 for second bag.

But it is true, the fee/taxes charged by the partners, are lower than what AC charges, for the same destination. Or I should say, charged by Aeroplan. Aeroplan adds on some of their on fees, over the same route if buying directly for AC tickets.

[Arrgh]

The other thing you should keep in mind is that your first search was conducted when the economy was at its low... so people would have been less likely to go on vacation. Now that the economy is supposed to have recovered (or is on its way to recovery), you would have more people travelling even if it is a year out. The last point is that there are a lot of people with a lot of Aeroplan points starting to expire in 2013, so inventory should theoretically dry up faster as those people are starting to redeem the otherwise expiring points.
Yes the economy is recovering, and people might start to plan more travel.

Last year when Aeroplan started the expiration of points, it is based on 7 year out. That should put it to expire 2015.

What I do is to add gas at Esso for $3, to get 1 point, for each of my family members. Do this every 1/2 yr (can do it every 11 months), and the points remain active.

[Chrispy]

Iv'e actually compared the taxes/fees charged for redeeming Aeroplan tickets vs buying. The taxes/fees for Aeroplan tickets for exactly the same flights always come out higher. So Aeroplan somehow tack on other charges.

No - that's not true. Remember, Aeroplan is OWNED by Air Canada, there is no advantage for them to tack on any extra charges!

For exactly the same reason as I had mentioned in the Air Miles thread, Aeroplan's charges are 'higher' than you would see on a cash fare because they can't bury any of the charges into the base fee.

See this link: http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi?rkey=1609185777&view=13213-0&Start=0

This is an Air Canada article, Point #2 indicates that they will build into the base fare all fuel surcharge fees. Since you can't build into the base fare with a redemption ticket, they have to be added on separately and these fees DO fluctuate just as the prices of gas do.

[mudd_stuffin]

Last year when Aeroplan started the expiration of points, it is based on 7 year out. That should put it to expire 2015.



That is incorrect. The "new" mileage expiration policy was put out in late 2006. Miles accumulated on or before Dec 31 2006 expire on Dec 31 2013.

http://www2.aeroplan.com/help/topic.do?id=2007

[mudd_stuffin]

Yes the economy is recovering, and people might start to plan more travel.

Last year when Aeroplan started the expiration of points, it is based on 7 year out. That should put it to expire 2015.

What I do is to add gas at Esso for $3, to get 1 point, for each of my family members. Do this every 1/2 yr (can do it every 11 months), and the points remain active.

Actually, I was referring to the "7-year" expiry rule and not the "keep active every 12 months" rule. I agree with you that Esso is a good way to keep the account active.

[asdfvcx]

No - that's not true. Remember, Aeroplan is OWNED by Air Canada, there is no advantage for them to tack on any extra charges!

Aeroplan was sold by Air Canada a number of years ago. It's now a public company.

As part of the sale some type of agreement was signed to ensure Air Canada will still provide seats to Aeroplan at a reduced cost.


In fact Aeroplan has purchased the regional licenses and runs the Air Miles programs in a number of countries in the world. (Although not in Canada.)

[mikeycanuk]

It's all a game. I've never really had problems and have gotten lucky as well. I got 3 J seats for our flight to Cancun (late aug09)2 months out (1 week pre swine flu!). I did have to cancel our earlier flight a few months before due to family reasons so getting the 3 biz seats was such a sweet bonus. Wife and son are in J too for our upcoming St Lucia trip boxing day and I'm in coach. All on classic levels.

As for taxes and fees I've found that Aeroplan charges LESS than Air Canada. I've done the math several times too, mostly for yyz-cun flights.

If you don't like Aeroplan, use Airmiles or get a TD or RBC travel visa cards.

[Arrgh]

No - that's not true. Remember, Aeroplan is OWNED by Air Canada, there is no advantage for them to tack on any extra charges!

For exactly the same reason as I had mentioned in the Air Miles thread, Aeroplan's charges are 'higher' than you would see on a cash fare because they can't bury any of the charges into the base fee.

See this link: http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi?rkey=1609185777&view=13213-0&Start=0

This is an Air Canada article, Point #2 indicates that they will build into the base fare all fuel surcharge fees. Since you can't build into the base fare with a redemption ticket, they have to be added on separately and these fees DO fluctuate just as the prices of gas do.
You need to update yourself with news from the last few years. Aeroplan frequent flyer program is owned by Groupe Aeroplan Inc., which also owns Nectar, Air Miles in the US, etc. Many years ago it was owned by AC, but no more.

AC may still owns a % of Groupe Aeroplan Inc., but there are also lots of public floats and you can go buy shares (TSE: AER) yourself and become a shareholder. Those shares you buy are not owned by AC, but by you.

You are also confirming what I said, that the fee/taxes you pay on an aeroplan redemption, is higher than the fee/taxes you pay when buying an AC ticket directly. The fuel surcharge is just another "marketing/financial" term of charge, as part of a ticket pricing. To take the "fuel surcharge" and add that to the fee charged for redeem for an aeroplan ticket, is just another way of getting more money from you, for what used to be called a "free ticket".

[Arrgh]

That is incorrect. The "new" mileage expiration policy was put out in late 2006. Miles accumulated on or before Dec 31 2006 expire on Dec 31 2013.

http://www2.aeroplan.com/help/topic.do?id=2007
Ah you're right. I started using Esso to add 1 point to each of the family members in Dec./07 then. That didn't seem that long ago, but I guess I haven't had to gas up for everyone's points that often.

[Chrispy]

You need to update yourself with news from the last few years. Aeroplan frequent flyer program is owned by Groupe Aeroplan Inc., which also owns Nectar, Air Miles in the US, etc. Many years ago it was owned by AC, but no more.

I stand corrected, I forgot about that.

[deal_king]

Is it true that you can avoid the fuel surcharge if you book on Aeroplan with a star alliance flight instead of AC flight?

Can someone check?

[JiffyPB]

Is it true that you can avoid the fuel surcharge if you book on Aeroplan with a star alliance flight instead of AC flight?

Can someone check?

I believe I've heard such things mentioned before, but just rumors to me. I nominate you to check.

[Tifosi]

Is it true that you can avoid the fuel surcharge if you book on Aeroplan with a star alliance flight instead of AC flight?

Can someone check?

Booking Star Alliance flights for a North American trip usually works out to around $60-70 in taxes/fees vs. $160-$170 for AC flights, so it's definitely cheaper to avoid AC metal.

[deal_king]

Booking Star Alliance flights for a North American trip usually works out to around $60-70 in taxes/fees vs. $160-$170 for AC flights, so it's definitely cheaper to avoid AC metal.

That's what I heard, but I tried to book a flight from YUL-IAD nov-18-24 return and no star alliance flights showed up (only AC flights). However, when I searched on staralliance.com, many UA flights showed up. I'm guessing that they block the *A flights from showing up in the Aeroplan search if there are AC flights available???

[apn64]

@ OP; save your points and travel from Buffalo, NY; likely a us$200 round-trip.

I'm having the same problem looking for Feb flights to Fort Lauderdale. 4 tix on AC/WJ amounts to around cad$2,100, but about us$950 all-in from NY.

[deal_king]

@ OP; save your points and travel from Buffalo, NY; likely a us$200 round-trip.

I'm having the same problem looking for Feb flights to Fort Lauderdale. 4 tix on AC/WJ amounts to around cad$2,100, but about us$950 all-in from NY.

What are you talking about?? We're talking about Aeroplan award flights here.

[golfer29]

That's what I heard, but I tried to book a flight from YUL-IAD nov-18-24 return and no star alliance flights showed up (only AC flights). However, when I searched on staralliance.com, many UA flights showed up. I'm guessing that they block the *A flights from showing up in the Aeroplan search if there are AC flights available???

It's 25K points if you book with Star Alliance vs 15K if you book with Aeroplan. You can call in to get the United flight if it's available but then you'll have to pay the $30 phone fee (plus the extra 10K points).

I can confirm that total fees are cheaper on non-Air Canada flights, especially internationally

[deal_king]

It's 25K points if you book with Star Alliance vs 15K if you book with Aeroplan. You can call in to get the United flight if it's available but then you'll have to pay the $30 phone fee (plus the extra 10K points).

I can confirm that total fees are cheaper on non-Air Canada flights, especially internationally

Interesting. So if it is a regular haul flight- like YUL-SFO, both would be 25K? But if I wanted the *A one, I'd have to call in?

What a scam! They should be listing both the *A and the Aeroplan flight options on the Aeroplan site!

[golfer29]

Interesting. So if it is a regular haul flight- like YUL-SFO, both would be 25K? But if I wanted the *A one, I'd have to call in?

What a scam! They should be listing both the *A and the Aeroplan flight options on the Aeroplan site!

yes, regular haul is 25K for both Air Canada and *A. Some of the *A flights are on Aeroplan and some aren't. It would be nice if they showed everything but sometimes they don't

[Fragle]

I dunno about aeroplan being a ripoff, I've heard avion is the best in terms of flexability but I've had a great experience so far with them.

Just booked a flight within Asia for next Feb, 20k points and $9 for taxes

[elton5354]

I got about 175000 Aeroplan miles. How many miles can I use to book a round trip to HK?

[Badger]

I got about 175000 Aeroplan miles. How many miles can I use to book a round trip to HK?

75K for each. It sucks now United Mileage Plus only charges 65K for flights from North America to Hong Kong, while Aeroplan charges 75K.

[golfer29]

75K for each. It sucks now United Mileage Plus only charges 65K for flights from North America to Hong Kong, while Aeroplan charges 75K.

True but Business Class *A is only 100K points with Aeroplan. Mileage Plus charges 125K.

First class is only 120K with Aeroplan vs 145K with United. Plus you can go to/from Pacific/Atlantic with Aeroplan with 2 stopovers. This is a much better deal if you don't want to go economy

[mkjr]

just booked three business class tickets in Sept/Oct next year with AP points from YYZ to YVR...only 40K each..120K for all. taxes about 100 each...not bad, same tickets were 10K had I bought them now. they had cattle class at 25K but figured the 15K extra was worth it...given it only cost 120 bucks for the extra 15K via the CIBC card shuffle...

[mudd_stuffin]

just booked three business class tickets in Sept/Oct next year with AP points from YYZ to YVR...only 40K each..120K for all. taxes about 100 each...not bad, same tickets were 10K had I bought them now. they had cattle class at 25K but figured the 15K extra was worth it...given it only cost 120 bucks for the extra 15K via the CIBC card shuffle...

Especially if you got the business class tickets on the "internationally configured" aircrafts...

[mkjr]

Especially if you got the business class tickets on the "internationally configured" aircrafts... they do show they are on new 767's AC1175 and AC1162....we shall see in a year from now....i expect the schedule to change many times before then.

[Badger]

they do show they are on new 767's AC1175 and AC1162....we shall see in a year from now....i expect the schedule to change many times before then.

Choose the flight that came goes to Sydney via Vancouver from Toronto. That way, you have a higher chance to sit on the better planes.

[mudd_stuffin]

they do show they are on new 767's AC1175 and AC1162....we shall see in a year from now....i expect the schedule to change many times before then.

It would be crappy to see if this gets downgraded. 763's are the second best choice for YVR-YYZ.

Choose the flight that came goes to Sydney via Vancouver from Toronto. That way, you have a higher chance to sit on the better planes.

Agree totally, though the YYZ-YVR flight leaves at around 10:30pm so you are basically going to Vancity to zzz...

[mkjr]

it is pretty rare for the YYZ-YVR-SYD/PVG/PEK/NRT on the 777s to open up for one or two J seats between YYZ and YVR let alone three seats...they want all going J the whole way and therefore, only open reward space at the last minute as i recall.

Badger, not sure if you see this come up that often but i have never seen it.

given i am with my child, i am not fussed about the downgrade...old J is better for travelling with family...i am still trying to figure out how to do a 15.5 hour trip with my three year old in CX J....

[HighFlyer]

it is pretty rare for the YYZ-YVR-SYD/PVG/PEK/NRT on the 777s to open up for one or two J seats between YYZ and YVR let alone three seats...they want all going J the whole way and therefore, only open reward space at the last minute as i recall.

I've seen a few instances where there was award J space available on AC33 YYZ-YVR, but none on YVR-SYD. There are plenty of pax who originate in YVR or connect to YVR from other cities.

[mkjr]

I've seen a few instances where there was award J space available on AC33 YYZ-YVR, but none on YVR-SYD. There are plenty of pax who originate in YVR or connect to YVR from other cities.

so have i but never for more than 2 in J at the 40K per...perhaps i just do not look enough for 3 but my little one can fly in cattle... ;-)