Canada Computers passing on their Credit Card processing charges onto the consumers?!

[fantom]

So I was in the Canada Computers on Kennedy Rd the other day, trying to pay for an item by credit card only to hear from the cashier that there is a surcharge (on top of the price she was going to charge me) for credit card payments. And no, I'm not talking about the cash price vs. debit/credit price advertised in store/online.

So, after asking her what that charge was for and her not being able to answer it in any understandable manner, I realized that it was actually the payment processing charge that Moneris charges them for each transaction. As soon as I brought that up and asked about it specifically (if that's the case) the cashier shut up and border-line ignored me (as if she knew I got it figured out) and just stuck to the question "Do you want to process this purchase or not...?" in a way...

Even after complaining that they shouldn't do that, she wasn't budging, so I went ahead and paid the extra $2 (as I had no time to argue that day, really, and was in a rush anyway), but I did call up Moneris within minutes of getting back home and inquired about this whole process/treatment.

And guess what - merchants are not allowed to be doing that (passing off the payment processing charges onto the clients) as they get charged 2% and some fixed cost per each transaction... so sure enough, I filed a complaint (with all the transaction details) that will hopefully end up in the hands of someone who can do something with it and stop CanadaComputers from this B.S.

I just didn't remember any other stores charging me extra $$ for these transactions in the past, so this one must be one of the only ones doing that...

[septimus]

This practice is very old. I'd say, a decade or so. Nothing has changed. Why would it? Just don't shop there.

[bylo]

Just don't shop there.
Or if you do, bring cash.

Actually I'm somewhat sympathetic to Canada Computers about this. At most stores the 3% credit card merchant fee is embedded into the retail price. That means everyone, including those who pay cash, end up paying more for our merchandise. At least stores like Canada Computers offer their customers a choice and only charge those who prefer the convenience of a credit card.

BTW the real reason why VISA and MC don't like merchants to do this is because it makes it clear to credit card users that they're paying an extra 3% to use their "free" credit card. Credit cards aren't free no matter what VISA and MC would have you believe.

[sexyj]

And guess what - merchants are not allowed to be doing that (passing off the payment processing charges onto the clients) as they get charged 2% and some fixed cost per each transaction... so sure enough, I filed a complaint (with all the transaction details) that will hopefully end up in the hands of someone who can do something with it and stop CanadaComputers from this B.S.

I just didn't remember any other stores charging me extra $$ for these transactions in the past, so this one must be one of the only ones doing that...

Buy your stuff at FS/BB and get 100% mark up. No extra $$ there...


That's why all their prices is marked as "cash discounted"

[Jon Lai]

This doesn't make sense. The "regular" price should already have the surcharge included. Maybe the cashier was new and mistaken? It doesn't make sense that you have to pay the regular (not cash discounted price) AND pay an extra 2%, if I'm reading things right.

[sexyj]

This doesn't make sense. The "regular" price should already have the surcharge included. Maybe the cashier was new and mistaken? It doesn't make sense that you have to pay the regular (not cash discounted price) AND pay an extra 2%, if I'm reading things right.

But who's saying regular price already have the surcharge included ?

The main reason I believe the "cash discount: is there because they want to protect themselves from credit card fraud and other credit card charge back schemes by encouraging people to use cash/debit.

[Syyn]

This is indeed illegal. Hopefully some unwanted attention will force them to stop.

[Bookpreviews]

If you contact your credir card company they will give you the $2 back if you complain against the store and them possibly fine them and tell them to stop.

It is in the Visa policy the are not allowed to do that.

Some taxi drivers here were trying to charge $1.50 for credit card use and I called a bunch of times and now only 1 company seems to charge those fees:lol:

[Jucius Maximus]

OP, if you don't like it, then go and shop at Best Buy, or TheSourceCC. It has been like this for as long as I can remember.

ALL stores that accept credit cards pass on the processing costs to the customer. It's hidden in the product's price.

You'll eventually realise that all the really nitty-gritty competition in the computer equipment market is based on customers going from one store to another to save 50 cents or a dollar.

Stores are really skirting the rules here by advertising "cash discounted" prices, so as not to violate their merchant agreements by adding a "credit card surcharge".

I really have no problem with it because merchant fees are really what hurt the small businesses since they don't have preferential merchant agreements versus much larger chains.

This doesn't make sense. The "regular" price should already have the surcharge included. Maybe the cashier was new and mistaken? It doesn't make sense that you have to pay the regular (not cash discounted price) AND pay an extra 2%, if I'm reading things right.

Unfortunately all Canada Computers pricing is cash discount, and it is like that with Infonec and all the similar low-price low-service type of shops.

Unfortunately 90% of customers are stupid. If one store sells something for $99.99 (not including 3% cash discount) and the next store sells it for $98.49 (3% cash discounted) then where do you think the customers will go? People are stupid and will not account for the cash discount and/or not read the fine print.

This is really one of my pet peeves because it drives all the really annoying surcharges in the airline business (lower seat price, but luggage surcharge in the fine print) and all the "admin fees" and "mandatory $398 etch warranty" at car lots.

This is indeed illegal. Hopefully some unwanted attention will force them to stop.
Credit card surcharge is against the merchant agreement.
Cash discount is not against the merchant agreement.
Neither are illegal.

And no, they won't stop. I hope they won't stop. I prefer to be able to make a purchase without having to choose between paying money to banks / credit card networks and giving fatter profits to the store.

[Jon Lai]

But who's saying regular price already have the surcharge included ?

The main reason I believe the "cash discount: is there because they want to protect themselves from credit card fraud and other credit card charge back schemes by encouraging people to use cash/debit.

No, their reason is to avoid the credit card surcharge so they offer a lower price for cash/debit.

I know from personal experience.

[Spiderpal93]

This doesn't make sense. The "regular" price should already have the surcharge included. Maybe the cashier was new and mistaken? It doesn't make sense that you have to pay the regular (not cash discounted price) AND pay an extra 2%, if I'm reading things right.

+1.

This does sound weird. I have bought from Canada Computers using credit card numerous times before. If you pay by credit card then it should be their "Everyday low price" and there shouldn't be any surcharges. I remember Canada Computers used to charge additionally if pay by credit card but that was a couple years ago before they expanded.

OP, a lot of smaller computer stores do charge you extra if you use credit card so this is not uncommon (But is defintely uncommon for Canada Computer's though).

[williamsauga]

whats canadian computers? never heard of it, go figure

[rabbit]

I thought the dude is saying that he was charged $2.00 on top of paying the non-cash discounted price (ie. he's already paying an extra 3%).

"And no, I'm not talking about the cash price vs. debit/credit price advertised in store/online. "

[number8888]

Never bought anything in CC using credit card. But I would assume that if using a CC you would pay the regular price as that should include the surcharge and that's it. It's like they are double dipping and that's against the argreement..

I believe that using interac is considered cash so I usually just use that (since it's totally free with PC account).

Many computer stores will charge a higher price if paying by CC as the margins are slim on computer products and yet the market is very competitive. I have come across a lot of smaller shops that would add a fee if transaction is less than 5 dollars or something like that. Some would just refuse to accept CC's outright.

[bylo]

BTW it's not just retailers like Canada Computers who charge extra for credit card payments. Many municipalities (property tax) and utilities add a surcharge of 2.5% or 3% when you pay them by credit card.

As I said before, making this an optional, explicit charge leads to better transparency and gives consumers the choice to save money by paying cash or debit. Remember that credit card perks ranging from buyer protection to airline points to cash rebates, etc. aren't "free" no matter what the card company tells you.

[mr_no_name]

i dont think what they do is illegal. the reason being is because they ask you first. if you agree then its a verbal agreement. and if you really dont like paying the surcharge pay in cash. simple as that.

[bokep]

So it's established that Visa and Moneris doesn't allow that kind of practice and still you have people defending CC's actions. You guys are clowns.

It's one thing to raise the price by an amount and then offering a discount for cash. It's an entirely different thing to charge additional credit card fees on top of the price on the tag.

[carmaster]

This is old old news.

[Jon Lai]

Haha. I like how half of you guys responding didn't even read the OP properly and probably just replying to the title or skimmed over the post, ignoring the details.

[woof]

Credit card surcharge is against the merchant agreement.
Cash discount is not against the merchant agreement.
Neither are illegal.


Somebody got it right.
The card companies will slap a merchant if they catch him doing the surcharge thing. But of course they will never know until someone complains.

[Samster]

Can the OP post their receipt so we can examine the numbers?

[Winkle]

Somebody got it right.
The card companies will slap a merchant if they catch him doing the surcharge thing. But of course they will never know until someone complains.

Weird, I know this was standard practice at Canada Computers for awhile but noticed a few years back that they stopped charging me the 2% CC service charge starting about 3 years ago and I haven't seen it since. But then again I've almost stopped shopping for parts there entirely so maybe they've reverted back to old habits (probably blaming the economic status I bet).

I know its illegal but so many stores do it, I don't know what anyone can do. There was a W-Five report like 3 or 4 years ago where they went to like STC and found that the majority of the stores were actually passing CC service charges to their customers, the fees were already embedded into the prices. They know its illegal but they still do it because its fairly undetectable.

[Rayban123]

Canada Computers is in violation of their merchant agreement with their credit card companies if they are doing this.

The credit card companies can revoke the privilege of the merchant using their processing system and accepting credit cards from consumers. Canada Computers is walking a very fine line.

[gilboman]

Canada Computers is in violation of their merchant agreement with their credit card companies if they are doing this.

The credit card companies can revoke the privilege of the merchant using their processing system and accepting credit cards from consumers. Canada Computers is walking a very fine line.

no it's not. they are offering a discount for cash/debit. There is no surcharge for credit cards. Retailers are free to offer discounts to whomever they want. This is no different than canadian tire giving "canadian tire" money to cash/cdn tire card purchases. Department stores do it too (extra discount using a bay/sears card), they even have different return policies for credit card and dept.store card too.

[rems]

no it's not. they are offering a discount for cash/debit. There is no surcharge for credit cards. Retailers are free to offer discounts to whomever they want. This is no different than canadian tire giving "canadian tire" money to cash/cdn tire card purchases. Department stores do it too (extra discount using a bay/sears card), they even have different return policies for credit card and dept.store card too.

but that`s not what the OP said. He said this surcharge is different from the debit/cash vs CC price.

[7jaii]

but that`s not what the OP said. He said this surcharge is different from the debit/cash vs CC price.

Correct. CC's Everyday price (includes surcharge), Cash Discount (no credit card fee). So it's peculiar that there's a second fee on top of the Credit Card payment...

A couple years ago, CC got slapped and tried "same price" regardless of payment form at the North York location. That didn't last long because by Boxing Day they were back to their old methods.

I'm "meh" on CC. I used to visit the old College location everyday after lectures and you knew there was a special because there was a long line up with people holding cash and cashiers eating their take-out food at the counter. Save 3% vs. rude-sub-par service? I know what I'm buying so I'll take 3% off. But if they're up to their old tricks skimming off transactions then report them immediately.

[nasersid]

Guys it's real simple just check the item OP bought for the price. Is it advertised as cash discounted? If so CC hasn't committed any illegal transaction if no mention as cash discounted price then CC violated the rule. Please don't defend or cricticize CC without knowing the facts Just my 2 cents.

[rems]

Guys it's real simple just check the item OP bought for the price. Is it advertised as cash discounted? If so CC hasn't committed any illegal transaction if no mention as cash discounted price then CC violated the rule. Please don't defend or cricticize CC without knowing the facts Just my 2 cents.

it is probably best if he post his receipt. Cuz the OP stated that the surcharge wasnt because of the cash-discounted price.

[whampoa]

No pic, it didn't happen.

[TakumiDC5]

I'm a small business owner, and I really don't see why merchants can't absorb the fees from the credit card service providers.

I use Costco's service through Elavon, the fee is only 1.7% or something like that.

We don't even do that much volume, higher volume stores might get an even better rate.

CC is probably run by cheap ass chinese people. (I'm chinese btw :lol:) Just like BCom computers here in Edmonton. Cheap ass pricks

[hOrnizuka]

CC is mostly doing this to encouraging ppl to pay by cash thus they can evade a bit of tax. =D

[brunes]

BTW it's not just retailers like Canada Computers who charge extra for credit card payments. Many municipalities (property tax) and utilities add a surcharge of 2.5% or 3% when you pay them by credit card.

As I said before, making this an optional, explicit charge leads to better transparency and gives consumers the choice to save money by paying cash or debit. Remember that credit card perks ranging from buyer protection to airline points to cash rebates, etc. aren't "free" no matter what the card company tells you.

You guys are all missing the OPs point and need to RE-READ his post.

He said he is not only not getting the "cash discount" price - BUT BEING CHARGED A SURCHAGE ON TOP OF THAT. IE - he is having to pay *TWO* surcharges, at least according to his account.

Personally I think the OP just had a rookie cashier that did not know what they were doing, and there is only supposed to be one surcharge.

[zoro69]

CC is mostly doing this to encouraging ppl to pay by cash thus they can evade a bit of tax. =D

If your typical retailer is netting 5%, and they can encourage people to pay cash to save them 2% in cc fees...they've boosted their profit 40%. its the same reason zellers etc drive you nuts asking to use/sign up for their own cc.

years ago here city council cited computer stores doing it and started advertising fuel at the municipal marina as cash discounted price. Too many complained about paying more with a cc and they dropped that pretty quick

[shepd]

CC is *not* violating their TOS with Moneris. I should know, I had the misfortune of having them as my payment processor at my store. I personally charged 5% surcharge for AmEx, as that's what I was billed and I wanted to encourage customers not to use it. Since we had about 1 customer a year that actually *had* to use it, any arguments about it would be met with "You're welcome to call up Moneris and have them stop me processing AmEx, although you're the only customer this year using it, so you're only doing yourself a disservice."

No, I didn't charge extra for any other cards, since their surcharge was more reasonable (got it down to 1.85% at one point).

Virtually all TOS allow a store of offer cash discounts. The price you see on the shelf at CC is the price you pay. If you want to save some money, you may pay by cash.

If you all manage to get Moneris et al. to change this policy, the only thing you will accomplish is getting CC to install an ATM that charges $2 and going cash only.

The margins on computer products are razor thin, and the 2 to 3% that Moneris charges them *will* be paid by you. I personally like that people who cause that fee to happen pay that fee. I have no interest in paying your fees because you were too lazy to get cash out before you went there.

For those that don't believe me about the TOS, I can dig some examples up that SPECIFICALLY STATE that while a surcharge for credit cards IS NOT permitted, a cash discount IS.

Now, if you got billed a surcharge on top of the normal price, you should go back and get a refund, the cashier screwed up.

Think about this: Canadian Tire gives up to 12x CT Funny Money back for paying cash for gas. You get none back if you pay with a CC. If CT thinks it's OK to give a cash discount, you have to assume it's not crazy to think CC can do it to.

[champlinD]

Or if you do, bring cash.

Actually I'm somewhat sympathetic to Canada Computers about this. At most stores the 3% credit card merchant fee is embedded into the retail price. That means everyone, including those who pay cash, end up paying more for our merchandise. At least stores like Canada Computers offer their customers a choice and only charge those who prefer the convenience of a credit card.

BTW the real reason why VISA and MC don't like merchants to do this is because it makes it clear to credit card users that they're paying an extra 3% to use their "free" credit card. Credit cards aren't free no matter what VISA and MC would have you believe.


Buy your stuff at FS/BB and get 100% mark up. No extra $$ there...


That's why all their prices is marked as "cash discounted"

This is common practice of chinese store owners. You go anywhere like FS/BB etc no sperate charges for CC transaction.

When I went with Tai Pan tour its same. Cash based.
Some Chinese tradition...they want your hard cash and not CC.

[rems]

CC is *not* violating their TOS with Moneris. I should know, I had the misfortune of having them as my payment processor at my store. I personally charged 5% surcharge for AmEx, as that's what I was billed and I wanted to encourage customers not to use it. Since we had about 1 customer a year that actually *had* to use it, any arguments about it would be met with "You're welcome to call up Moneris and have them stop me processing AmEx, although you're the only customer this year using it, so you're only doing yourself a disservice."

No, I didn't charge extra for any other cards, since their surcharge was more reasonable (got it down to 1.85% at one point).

Virtually all TOS allow a store of offer cash discounts. The price you see on the shelf at CC is the price you pay. If you want to save some money, you may pay by cash.

If you all manage to get Moneris et al. to change this policy, the only thing you will accomplish is getting CC to install an ATM that charges $2 and going cash only.

The margins on computer products are razor thin, and the 2 to 3% that Moneris charges them *will* be paid by you. I personally like that people who cause that fee to happen pay that fee. I have no interest in paying your fees because you were too lazy to get cash out before you went there.

For those that don't believe me about the TOS, I can dig some examples up that SPECIFICALLY STATE that while a surcharge for credit cards IS NOT permitted, a cash discount IS.

Now, if you got billed a surcharge on top of the normal price, you should go back and get a refund, the cashier screwed up.
Think about this: Canadian Tire gives up to 12x CT Funny Money back for paying cash for gas. You get none back if you pay with a CC. If CT thinks it's OK to give a cash discount, you have to assume it's not crazy to think CC can do it to.

This is what the OP is claiming...no one is arguing that the cash discounted price is illegal.

[MountainM]

Visa\MC\Amex all want to take higher and higher rates. We are a small business and were just looking at our CC processing bill last week. We are now getting charged a premium for a lot of the "chip cards" and any cards that the customer receives a higher reward on. We called our processing company and asked for a list of cards that we were billed a higher rate on. They refused.

Very frusting for a small business that is for sure.

We are going to start doing the cash discounted price here also.

On another note visa and mc are trying to get into the debt business also. No longer will it be charged a flat rate like interact does. They want their debt cards to collect a percentage just like their CC cards. We asked that they turned off this function on our terminal and even that took a lot of convincing and faxing of paperwork.

[xstatik]

Some Chinese tradition...they want your hard cash and not CC.

It's also easier to hide the sales from Revenue Canada and aviod paying sales taxes by dealing with cash..
I refuse to pay GST/PST when paying cash at Pacific Mall, chances are, the store is pocketing the taxes, instead of paying the government

[Jon Lai]

It's also easier to hide the sales from Revenue Canada and aviod paying sales taxes by dealing with cash..
I refuse to pay GST/PST when paying cash at Pacific Mall, chances are, the store is pocketing the taxes, instead of paying the government

What tax? When you buy something at PMall, there's no tax on the receipt. I mean, you don't even get a receipt :lol:

[mwong168]

I pay with credit card all the time whenever I buy from CC and get charges 2% on top of their discounted cash price. I usually don't tell or show them my credit card until they ring everything in that way they assume I am paying cash and can only add 2% as opposed to going back and changing the discounted cash price to regular and then adding the 2% for double dipping. :evil:

I loved the SiG door crasher a few weeks ago when I was near the front of the line up and 5 mins before opening someone from inside the store came out and said sorry CASH only today :twisted: So many people were pissed from lining up 1 hour earlier and some couldn't purchase what they needed cause their daily limit was too low and the item they wanted was an expensive HD camcorder or DSLR.

[annebos35]

LOL it's like convenience stores on the Transcanada highway that won't let you use your debit/creditcard unless you purchase $10 worth of items which is totally b.s.

[bylo]

You guys are all missing the OPs point and need to RE-READ his post... at least according to his account.
The OP's post, if accurate, is crazy so I assumed either he or the cashier misunderstood how CC's cash vs. credit card pricing works. Here we are, three pages into the thread, and the OP still hasn't confirmed/clarified what he was told at CC. Until he does, most of this thread is a waste of electrons since most of us, perhaps with the exception of the OP, do understand how the system works.

[rabbit]

> You guys are all missing the OPs point and need to RE-READ his post.

You should re-read my post on page 1 ;).
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/9649161-post13/

[hightech]

Any place I go and they charge me for the Visa charge, I pay it and tell the store owner it violates their terms of agreement. If they still want to do it, that's fine.

I then go home and contact Visa and they credit me the charge. If enough people complain, they lose their rights to use Visa.

I have no problem for stores to allow alternate modes of payment. If they choose to violates the terms and give some bogus statement about 'non cash discounted pricing' then they deserve to ge called out on this.

[Jucius Maximus]

Any place I go and they charge me for the Visa charge, I pay it and tell the store owner it violates their terms of agreement. If they still want to do it, that's fine.

I then go home and contact Visa and they credit me the charge. If enough people complain, they lose their rights to use Visa.
Do you actually complain to VISA Canada, or to the bank that issued the credit card?

[xstatik]

What tax? When you buy something at PMall, there's no tax on the receipt. I mean, you don't even get a receipt :lol:

Exactly.. But I've had a few Pac Mall stores try and charge me tax..

[fantom]

I thought the dude is saying that he was charged $2.00 on top of paying the non-cash discounted price (ie. he's already paying an extra 3%).

"And no, I'm not talking about the cash price vs. debit/credit price advertised in store/online. "

Exactly.

The advertised cash price was $49, let's say.

The non-cash price was $51 (I understand - CC processing charge included in this).

And I was asked to pay $53.

And no, that didn't make sense to me either.

Plus, I don't mind higher prices by a few bucks (when they include the CC processing charge in the final price), but don't screw me at the cash counter by charging all the hidden b.s. when I've already got my items ready to go... that's just douchey.

And no, I haven't experienced this in any other Canada Computers store...

[ionic]

But you reported it right? To BBB? Any update? I think cashier effed up, and frankly should lose their job.

[fantom]

But you reported it right? To BBB? Any update? I think cashier effed up, and frankly should lose their job.

Report it to who? Over $2? Too much effort to go beyond what I did already (report it to Moneris) for the return...

[maddawg]

Damn, so much whining over a $2 charge. It's pretty simple op..don't agree with CC policy then shop elsewhere.

[Hairball]

What tax? When you buy something at PMall, there's no tax on the receipt. I mean, you don't even get a receipt :lol:

Depends on what you are buying and where you buy from. A lot of stores you get receipts and have a GST number. I imagine pirated media probably doesn't require sales tax.

As for the original topic, obviously they're trying to avoid the credit card fees, so they do it by claiming there is a cash price on everything, and a higher "regular" price.

However a friend told me he bought a laptop from them that they were fine with accepting a credit card for the cash price, maybe it's because it's a large purchase they were willing to budge.

[punisher101]

Damn, so much whining over a $2 charge. It's pretty simple op..don't agree with CC policy then shop elsewhere.

My sentiments exactly. CC has some good deals even with $2 charge. If you don't like it shop somewhere else.

[Samster]

I would still like to see the receipt to see how this secondary charge is represented.

[brunes]

Damn, so much whining over a $2 charge. It's pretty simple op..don't agree with CC policy then shop elsewhere.

My sentiments exactly. CC has some good deals even with $2 charge. If you don't like it shop somewhere else.

Jesus, how many times does it have to be posted, THIS IS NOT CC POLICY. CC policy is for ONE surcharge, not TWO.

Someone made a mistake, either the cashier or CC itself. The OP has done everything correctly here.

[rapsrealm]

If you don't like it just price match the item at NCIX.

[Ebtek]

whats canadian computers? never heard of it, go figure

theyre the cheapest seller of computer parts/accessories around.