9 Month old will not sleep - advice? **UPDATE**

[angels2009]

Hi There,

My 9 month old daughter has never been a good sleeper and recently she is getting worse. She goes to be around 9pm and is up 6-12 times throughout the night and I am going to lose my mind.

I have tried the books the No Cry Sleep solution with no success and at 6 months I tried The Baby Whisper (Pick up/Put down) but I am not seeing any results.

I tried letting her cry 2 nights and it was worse and she became more clingy and scared to be alone, so I am not going to do that again.

BACKGROUND INFO: She was colic for 5 months and she cannot fall asleep on her own, I have tried to leave her, but she needs to be held to fall asleep, I have tried co sleeping and she will not sleep any longer with us either, so I cannot figure out why she will not sleep for more than 45in-1hr at a time

I have heard about the Sleep Doula, but they charge $325 just for a consultation and I am wondering if any one has any advice or tips, or if you know anyone who has used these Sleep Doulas can you please tell me if they had any success

[Toronto]

When you let her cry it out, did you leave the room? I used the crying out method with my son but stayed by his side the entire time and after 3 hard nights he instantly slept through the night every night.

[bubble.tea]

...I used the crying out method with my son but stayed by his side the entire time and after 3 hard nights he instantly slept through the night every night.

You cannot underestimate how 'hard' the let cry method is. From friends we hear that it takes a really difficult mentality and focus. We tried it for a split second once and it just felt so foreign and inhumane LOL.

It is really hard.

We never bothered with it. Then again, we never had it that hard anyway :o.

Be strong OP.

[LiL L]

Wow, that's rough. My son has always been a bad sleeper, but never that bad. Sorry about your situation. Every baby is different, you just have to do what makes you feel comfortable and gets you the most sleep. Perhaps a slow progression (i.e, if you're holding her now to fall asleep, next step is try putting in her crib before she falls asleep and pat her back until she falls asleep and then slowly distance yourself futher and further away each night until you are out of the room).
How are her naps? Perhaps an earlier bedtime would help as well.

[Monette]

Sorry OP. I know it's tough. I remember those days. You feel so tired yourself it's hard to function. Hang in there.

I agree with PP. Earlier bedtime and straighten out the naps if they aren't good now. Try moving bedtime up in 15 min increments every few days until you get an earlier bedtime. It's amazing what a difference it makes to the nights if the days aren't good. At that age, babies still need several long naps a day to prevent overtiredness, which is what often leads to multiple nightwakings.

[angels2009]

Thanks for the advice. I have moved her bedtime up and think I will try even earlier, it is really hard b/c now I am sometimes dilusional at night time.

She naps 30 min in the morning and 2-3 hours in the afternoon, but I have to be right by her and she will wake up a few times and I have to shish her and so she is a bad napper too.

I don't know what I did wrong, but I hope it will get better, maybe those sleep doulas may be worth it if they can get her to sleep longer.

Thanks for all the advice and kind words.

[skulipeg]

Ours was a horrible sleeper...wouldn't fall asleep without being in my arms, woke up as soon as I put her down. After trying everything else under the sun, we eventually tried the cry it out method. It was horrible.....but it worked. For us, going in to console her after 10 minutes, then 15, then 20 - did NOT work, it only made things worse, as she'd get herself all worked up as soon as she saw us. So we just let her cry...and cry...and cry... And it did take a week of a LOT of crying (I put the headphones on and listened to music, although I was completely stressed the entire time). I told myself that I wouldn't do it for more than a week, as it seems cruel. I didn't think I would last a whole week, but I made myself do it. And guess what - it worked! She now goes to sleep all by herself for two good naps a day, and she goes down herself at night now too - for a whopping 10 to 11 hours!! If she wakes up in the middle of her nap or nightime sleep, she plays for a bit, then goes back to sleep again.

Some say it's heartless, others say it's wrong. But we were desperate. And although for that whole week I slept even less than I did for the months before that, and although I thought we were the worst parents in the world for making our child suffer like that...it was well worth it. And the good thing is that although I will always remember how difficult it was, and how much she cried, she'll never remember a thing.

[Monette]

She definitely sounds overtired if she's only doing a 30 min nap in the morning. I think if a sleep doula can truly help, it's worth the money. You don't want to still be dealing with this problem in a year or two. I have friends with 2+ year olds who still wake up at night.

[volan]

This type of question is asked a lot. I always recommend a book called "Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child" by Marc Weissbluth. It's the book we used as a guide. It's not a panacea but it is a good guide.

My son was a terrible sleeper, he took 20min naps and was always waking up at night. He was exhausted and we were exhausted too. We also looked at the books you mentioned, we also looked at books by Ferber and Sears but didn't like any of them.

The book talks a great deal about the importance of sleep and gives strategies on how to allow your child to teach him/herself to go to sleep. One strategy is the let cry method which some people here totally oppose. As a parent twice over I can tell you that while you're doing it you feel like the scum of the earth but after 3 or 4 days when your child can fall asleep without having to be rocked or fed or anything else you'll think it's wonderful. Your child will get some sleep and you'll be able to get some sleep too.

Check out the book and good luck!

[creamsoda]

Thanks for the advice. I have moved her bedtime up and think I will try even earlier, it is really hard b/c now I am sometimes dilusional at night time.

She naps 30 min in the morning and 2-3 hours in the afternoon, but I have to be right by her and she will wake up a few times and I have to shish her and so she is a bad napper too.

I don't know what I did wrong, but I hope it will get better, maybe those sleep doulas may be worth it if they can get her to sleep longer.

Thanks for all the advice and kind words.

Angels ... I'd be interested to hear how it goes if you have time to repost. Your fellow RFD moms and dads are with yoU!

[RunnerForDeals]

I can only offer some advice on what we did. We have have two wonderful children that sleep about 12 hour a night. They go to bed between 6:30 and 7:30 and wake up between 6:30 and 7:30 the next morning. Ages are currently 28 months and 16 months.

At around the 9 month stage for both kids we just used the cry it out method and set the routine early on. It comes down to the daily routine to be able to setup the nightly routine.

Two naps during the day, long in the morning, short in the afternoon. We found around 10:00 in the morning is the right time for the morning nap and 2:30 is the right time for the afternoon nap. 1.5 - 2 hours in the morning 1 hour in the afternoon.

We are very strict on the amount of drinking before bed. There was never a bottle before bed and we always let them fall asleep on their own.

CRYING IT OUT IS HARD!!! I will say it again, it is the hardest thing as a parent to do. I have insane self control and there were times that I wanted to run in to their rooms and grab them. The first few nights were a good two hours of wailing, and by wailing I mean blood curdling, mind numbing, roof raising wailing. If you can live through it, the routine is set. Subsquant nights the wailing turning in to crying, then eventually whimpering, then you get to a point where you put them in their crib/ben and it is instant sleep without a peep.

Silence is bliss as a parent and a good sleeping routine is key. It is so hard at the beginning but the rewards are well worth it. My kids are so so active during the day since they get so much sleep. They eat well, they laugh a lot and have tons of fun during the day.

If you want more information just ask and I can either post or PM. Some people have commented on the inhuman feeling of letting them cry it out. I am not going to lie, I felt the same way, the exact same way, like I was torturing my child. 7 nights later when it was instant sleep, I knew I had done the best for them and us.

[looniepincher]

I can't really speak from experience because ours sleeps relatively well but almost every person I've ever heard that tried the "crying it out" method reported success after a few days to a week.

It probably is different for you but our daughter slept much better after we started "topping up" her milks just before bed. I'm not necessarily recommending this because now I've got a problem with her and toothbrushing before bed but what we found was that she slept much better on a full tummy. Oh, and I totally agree with the previous suggestions of cutting down the daytime naps and pushing up the bedtime.

good luck and let us know how it goes!

[yunnage]

Our son was also a terrible sleeper (day and night) and after a few weeks of colic I was desperate to get him to sleep. I read the No Cry Sleep Solution first, but had no success with that. I then started reading Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child, as recommended by other posters, and it became our guide.

It basically provides strategies for creating the best environment for your child to obtain ideal sleep. So, keeping wakeful periods short, developing a sleep routine that your child becomes accustom to and recognizing when it is time for your child to sleep/nap. After reading the book you realize that making sure your kid sleeps becomes your first priority, so we'd plan everything around our son's naps and his early (6:30 pm) bedtime. Sure, it was a pain to be so regimented, but I wouldn't change anything given that at 21 months he's a great napper and sleeper. He sleeps 11-12 hours straight and never wakes due to teething, sickness, wet diaper etc. When we tell him it's sleepy time, he automatically goes up the stairs himself to the bedroom . Sometimes he even lays down on his sleep sack waiting for us to put him in. I think because we stuck with the routine for so long our son recognizes that sleep is important for him.

We did cry him out at 9 months and it was heart wrenching. I slept downstairs for those few nights because it was so hard to listen to, but after a few days he started sleeping through. I read that cold turkey cry it out - just walking out - works faster, so that's what we tried. I know a lot of parents try the gradual method - go in after 5 mins, 10, 15. I think our son has learned that we won't go back into his room until it is time to wake up, so he sleeps through.

I have a 1 month old now and I forgot how difficult it was to wake up so many times in the night.

Good luck and send a pm if you have any questions.

[RunnerForDeals]

Our son was also a terrible sleeper (day and night) and after a few weeks of colic I was desperate to get him to sleep. I read the No Cry Sleep Solution first, but had no success with that. I then started reading Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child, as recommended by other posters, and it became our guide.

It basically provides strategies for creating the best environment for your child to obtain ideal sleep. So, keeping wakeful periods short, developing a sleep routine that your child becomes accustom to and recognizing when it is time for your child to sleep/nap. After reading the book you realize that making sure your kid sleeps becomes your first priority, so we'd plan everything around our son's naps and his early (6:30 pm) bedtime. Sure, it was a pain to be so regimented, but I wouldn't change anything given that at 21 months he's a great napper and sleeper. He sleeps 11-12 hours straight and never wakes due to teething, sickness, wet diaper etc. When we tell him it's sleepy time, he automatically goes up the stairs himself to the bedroom . Sometimes he even lays down on his sleep sack waiting for us to put him in. I think because we stuck with the routine for so long our son recognizes that sleep is important for him.

We did cry him out at 9 months and it was heart wrenching. I slept downstairs for those few nights because it was so hard to listen to, but after a few days he started sleeping through. I read that cold turkey cry it out - just walking out - works faster, so that's what we tried. I know a lot of parents try the gradual method - go in after 5 mins, 10, 15. I think our son has learned that we won't go back into his room until it is time to wake up, so he sleeps through.

I have a 1 month old now and I forgot how difficult it was to wake up so many times in the night.

Good luck and send a pm if you have any questions.

This is a great post as this is what I was trying to convey in mine but I didn't do it quite as elegant. I strongly believe in the sleep regiment as well, I haven't read that book but that is the routine we did.

[DealMakerLoverBreaker]

I have two young children and for our first we were going into his room every 2hrs for the entire first 9mths of his life. It was a terrible time. The thing is, is that it was the nurses at the hospital that told us we should wake him up when he was very young to feed him and we think now that thats what got him into the bad sleeping habits. I agree with others that routine is VERY important. In the end we used the cry it out method and yes it is extremely hard and feels cruel but in the end its not, because you are really helping your child develop better sleep patterns and sanity for yourself. We didn't make the same mistake the second time and our daughter slept great from day 1. When they are tired let them sleep.

[izzybear]

+ 1 for cry it out. Two kids: firstborn took 2 nights of screaming at 6 months old and never woke up at night again (he's 8 now). Second was a terrible sleeper and took one whole week of heart wrenching crying but hasn't woken up since. Have someone hold you back, physically if necessary..best thing I ever did for my children and my marriage!

[Yours]

Angel:
I am sure it's hard for you!
There must be a reason that a baby can't sleep. Not even co-sleep.
How many teeth does she have now? Would she be teething?

Camilia Naturalpath
Available at Shoppers or Walmart

This is non-medicated natural product for baby bedtime. I have more than 5 babies tried and work amazyingly.

Any other behavior problem during the day? She eat well? Walk or crawl?

[Happy13178]

I have 2 questions for the OP. Are you able to force your baby to go to sleep (while holding him/her) when they don't want to? And is there any ambient light/sound in the room at all, or is it perfectly dark?

[angels2009]

Angel:
I am sure it's hard for you!
There must be a reason that a baby can't sleep. Not even co-sleep.
How many teeth does she have now? Would she be teething?

Camilia Naturalpath
Available at Shoppers or Walmart

This is non-medicated natural product for baby bedtime. I have more than 5 babies tried and work amazyingly.

Any other behavior problem during the day? She eat well? Walk or crawl?



If she co-sleeps, we can get an extra hour or two max. What kind of product is that Camilia Naturalpath... drops? and does it put them to sleep.

She has her 2 bottom teeth

She is very active during the day and crawling, she eats well, she is just a bad sleeper.

Thanks for the advice I will check it out..

[angels2009]

I have 2 questions for the OP. Are you able to force your baby to go to sleep (while holding him/her) when they don't want to? And is there any ambient light/sound in the room at all, or is it perfectly dark?

If she is really tired I can try to force her to sleep in my arms, but if she is showing no signs of being tired, she will kick and cry and throw her soother at me.

Her room is dark at night.. I tried a night light, I even slept on the floor for a few days to see if that worked....but my child seems to be in a league of her own.

I know that people favour the cry it out method and we did try it for 2 days, she had soiled herself both times and the next days was worse and lost trust, so I cannot do it, she is soooo sensitive and I just can't.

[AnnaBanana]

questions:
1) are you nursing? or bottle feeding? and are you nursing / bottle feeding in the middle of the night?

2) what happens when you go in when she wakes up in the middle of the night? what is the routine?

3) what is your routine at nighttime? does it start at 8:30 and you put her down at 9? or does it start much earlier??

4) do you have a partner? what happens if he goes in to soothe her?

Just curious, then i might have some tips for ya!

[angels2009]

questions:
1) are you nursing? or bottle feeding? and are you nursing / bottle feeding in the middle of the night?


I give her a bottle just before bed (around 8pm) and then she wants one again around 4 or 5am

2) what happens when you go in when she wakes up in the middle of the night? what is the routine?

I go in her room and do not pick her up, just put her on her side and hold her hand for a minute or two. The problem is after 12:30 or so...she wll not go back in her crib.. if I put her down she keeps waking up ever 15 to 20 min.

3) what is your routine at nighttime? does it start at 8:30 and you put her down at 9? or does it start much earlier??

She use to go to bed at 9, but now we start to put her to bed at 8

4) do you have a partner? what happens if he goes in to soothe her?

My husband will do the same thing as me and she is okay with him as well. I tried having my mom spend the night to see what would happen if someone else tried to soothe her.... She FLIPPED out ... big time.

Just curious, then i might have some tips for ya!

Thanks

[RunnerForDeals]

I know that people favour the cry it out method and we did try it for 2 days, she had soiled herself both times and the next days was worse and lost trust, so I cannot do it, she is soooo sensitive and I just can't.

It sounds like your child is in a league of her own because that is what you want it to be. I know that sounds harsh but you gave up after 2 days of a method that works and it works well. If you choose not to do it that is wonderful and fine but you are going to be putting yourself, and your child, through misery for quite a while.

I am no professional though, so what I am saying is only from experience so I am happy that your are finding your own way, I just feel sympathy for you since I know what you are going through as I was there twice before and I know it can be soo much more rewarding for you and your family.

[AnnaBanana]

I think it's great that your partner does the same thing that you do. that is important.

First, review your nighttime schedule. try to do the same things every evening. So put her in her pj's at 7:15, then go upstairs to her room. Change her diaper, put the lights on REALLY dim (a little night light is best), then read books. read lots of books, like maybe 10 books. if it's too dark to read then that's fine, just invent stories as you turn the pages. if you have a rocking chair in her room, then rock her as you read to her. does she have a favourite blanket or stuffed animal? if not, get one. have her hold it as you rock her and read to her. make this a good 15 minutes of rocking / reading. give her the bedtime bottle at this point also. play some soft music in the background. there is lots of research that shows that clasical music has lots of benefits for babies.
After your mountain of books (even more is better!), and she finishes her bottle, then proceed to rock her in the chair for a few songs (i find it better to judge based on songs than time, as it is hopefully dark enough that you can't see a clock anyway!), sing to her or hum to her if you are so inclined, and then talk to her about how she will be going to bed soon. It's amazing how much they can process at this age, but they CAN. and they understand! so also talk to her about how if she wakes up in the middle of the night, that mommy and daddy can't be picking her up, that she's a big girl etc. After a few songs, carry her over to her crib with her animal / blanket, and kiss her, and tell her you'll see her when the sun comes up. If you have a mobile, put it on. If you have a crib toy that plays music, put it on. Then walk OUT.

This routine is a really basic one (doesn't include a bath even!), but STICK TO IT for several nights (not just two, but a good, full week at least!), and she will get to know certain cues (the lights being low, the music being on, the reading of the books, the rocking with her animal / blanket). she also needs to hear on an ongoing basis that you will see her in the MORNING, but when the sun is out (that is easier to understand for them at this age).

As for the middle of the night, you have several options. One is to let her cry. That is REALLY hard, but i don't know ANYONE who has done it, for whom it hasn't worked. That isn't to say that the parents didn't suffer too... but i think everyone who has gone through it has said that it was worth it 100%. those who talk against it are those who quit before they are successful. Remember: your baby will NOT hold a grudge in the morning, she will be her normal happy baby when she sees you in the morning light! And it gets easier with every night. You need to be distracted, you need to NOT have the monitor on, you need to be completely on board with your husband.

As for the 5am bottle, at 9 months of age she does not 'need' a bottle. that isn't to say that most moms don't give their babies bottles / nurse them in the night, but physiologically they no longer NEED food in the middle of the night. of course they'll take it, but they don't need it. if you were used to waking up at 5am and somone offered you a plate of fresh bacon or chocolate cake (or whatever you fancy!) then you might take it too! anyway it's hard to cut out, but you CAN!

If you are NOT going to let her cry it out, then there are other options. One is to go in every time she cries, rub her belly, tell her she's ok, and walk out. Another is to pick her up, rock her, and put her back. Of course some will argue that babies escalate MUCH MORE if you go in and see them (or pick them up), but that's a decision that you have to make.

Super nanny always said to sit beside the crib and that way your baby can see you and know that she's safe and secure, but i tried that, and it made things MUCH worse (as my baby would have his hands out BEGGING me to pick him up!). But that is something you can try as well.

Finally, be consistent, and stick with whatever works best for you and your partner. If your goal is to be sleeping full nights in a few weeks, then letting her cry it out is likely the best. but if you're dead-set against it, then maybe it is time to just really work on other things (nightime routine and being consistent in the middle of the night), and to be happy with whatever results may be.

Good luck and keep us updated!!!

[Dragon120]

Everyone has provided very useful & personal experience so far and every baby is different.

My little boy was a terrible sleeper when he was younger than 6 months. He would wake up several times at night (not hungry nor wet diaper) and would cry until we pick him. Co-sleeping didn't work either. We were ignorant and frustrated at the same time as we had no idea on how to help him sleep better or understand what he needs.

I've read lots of different theories by different MDs but I finally bought the book, Good Sleeping Habits, Healthy Baby (suggested by RFDers). We soon realized that the problems were:
1) he wasn't getting enough sleep (average 13+ hours per day at his age at that time), he was sleeping around 10 hours in total (including naps).
2) his bedtime was way too late (we put him down around 10pm) and let him nap whenever he wants- that's the ignorant & uninformed part
3) there was hardly any sunlight in the house and he had trouble distinguishing between day and night

By 6 months, we've moved to a new house. Wife and I agreed to try the method suggested in the book (listed above). During the 2nd week after we moved in, we put him down at 7pm...he would cry for an hour. Three days later, we put him down at 6:30pm, he would cry for 45 minutes. Another three days later, we put him down at 6pm, he DIDN'T cry...just mumbling and playing with his fingers. He felt asleep shortly after. That was the end of it...he slept through the night around 7 months- no waking up for milk. He wakes up around 6-7am (12 hours) + 2 naps during the day.


I owe it to two things:
1) Lots of bright natural light in the house and in his room (made a huge difference)
2) RFDers suggestion of Good Sleep Habits, Healthy Baby

[jindogae]

Like the OP I have a child that doesn't sleep well. She just turned one and all I can say is that things are a little better but not much. A good night would be 2-3 wake ups but 3-5 would be normal.
I'm curious about the reading to the child. Our daughter does not like to be held (unless she's sleeping) so getting through one book is tough enough, never mind several. Any suggestions on how to have her sit still for a reading session?

I think it's great that your partner does the same thing that you do. that is important.

First, review your nighttime schedule. try to do the same things every evening. So put her in her pj's at 7:15, then go upstairs to her room. Change her diaper, put the lights on REALLY dim (a little night light is best), then read books. read lots of books, like maybe 10 books. if it's too dark to read then that's fine, just invent stories as you turn the pages. if you have a rocking chair in her room, then rock her as you read to her. does she have a favourite blanket or stuffed animal? if not, get one. have her hold it as you rock her and read to her. make this a good 15 minutes of rocking / reading. give her the bedtime bottle at this point also. play some soft music in the background. there is lots of research that shows that clasical music has lots of benefits for babies.
After your mountain of books (even more is better!), and she finishes her bottle, then proceed to rock her in the chair for a few songs (i find it better to judge based on songs than time, as it is hopefully dark enough that you can't see a clock anyway!), sing to her or hum to her if you are so inclined, and then talk to her about how she will be going to bed soon. It's amazing how much they can process at this age, but they CAN. and they understand! so also talk to her about how if she wakes up in the middle of the night, that mommy and daddy can't be picking her up, that she's a big girl etc. After a few songs, carry her over to her crib with her animal / blanket, and kiss her, and tell her you'll see her when the sun comes up. If you have a mobile, put it on. If you have a crib toy that plays music, put it on. Then walk OUT.

This routine is a really basic one (doesn't include a bath even!), but STICK TO IT for several nights (not just two, but a good, full week at least!), and she will get to know certain cues (the lights being low, the music being on, the reading of the books, the rocking with her animal / blanket). she also needs to hear on an ongoing basis that you will see her in the MORNING, but when the sun is out (that is easier to understand for them at this age).

As for the middle of the night, you have several options. One is to let her cry. That is REALLY hard, but i don't know ANYONE who has done it, for whom it hasn't worked. That isn't to say that the parents didn't suffer too... but i think everyone who has gone through it has said that it was worth it 100%. those who talk against it are those who quit before they are successful. Remember: your baby will NOT hold a grudge in the morning, she will be her normal happy baby when she sees you in the morning light! And it gets easier with every night. You need to be distracted, you need to NOT have the monitor on, you need to be completely on board with your husband.

As for the 5am bottle, at 9 months of age she does not 'need' a bottle. that isn't to say that most moms don't give their babies bottles / nurse them in the night, but physiologically they no longer NEED food in the middle of the night. of course they'll take it, but they don't need it. if you were used to waking up at 5am and somone offered you a plate of fresh bacon or chocolate cake (or whatever you fancy!) then you might take it too! anyway it's hard to cut out, but you CAN!

If you are NOT going to let her cry it out, then there are other options. One is to go in every time she cries, rub her belly, tell her she's ok, and walk out. Another is to pick her up, rock her, and put her back. Of course some will argue that babies escalate MUCH MORE if you go in and see them (or pick them up), but that's a decision that you have to make.

Super nanny always said to sit beside the crib and that way your baby can see you and know that she's safe and secure, but i tried that, and it made things MUCH worse (as my baby would have his hands out BEGGING me to pick him up!). But that is something you can try as well.

Finally, be consistent, and stick with whatever works best for you and your partner. If your goal is to be sleeping full nights in a few weeks, then letting her cry it out is likely the best. but if you're dead-set against it, then maybe it is time to just really work on other things (nightime routine and being consistent in the middle of the night), and to be happy with whatever results may be.

Good luck and keep us updated!!!

[usedtobebarbie]

I second the vote for the book called "Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child" by Marc Weissbluth.

Also, I believe the parent has to take charge of their child's sleeping to build healthy sleep habits for the rest of the child's life.

I believe in setting a goal: ie. being able to lay child down awake and walk away while they put themselves to sleep, then they sleep through the night without requiring assistance to re-settle upon waking through the night. Same for naps.

Now to get the goal I use the following general strategies:

- learn how much sleep and how many naps are typical for a child of that age.
- learn how if you miss a nap your child may seem less tired because his/her body will have a stress response and get all worked up
- avoid the abovementioned work up buy putting child down to sleep at the first sign of being tired
- ensure all needs are met before sleep time - dry diaper, warm enough, fed, etc.
- routine and consistency
- don't give up on what you believe in because a child is crying - you wouldn't let them go without a seatbelt because they don't like it would you???
- if going back into the room to settle the baby seems to get him/her more upset, let them cry until they're asleep without going in.
- do something to distract yourself while you're doing this so you don't go crazy - call a friend, do some laundry, have a shower, etc.
- if you can hear your baby crying down the hall anyway, turn off the baby monitor, it only makes the sound louder and more stressful.
- remember that it takes usually 2-5 nights of having the baby learn that you mean business.
- remember that your child isn't going to hate you or lose trust in you over this.

Good luck. Keep the long term goal in site.

[Monette]

Naps are the most important thing to ensuring good night sleep for babies. I recall my daughter did 3 naps at that age. 2 -2hr naps (9:30am - 11:30, 1:30pm - 3:30pm) and 1 - 30 min (5:30 - 6pm) catnap at the end of the day so that she could make it to a 7 - 7:30pm bedtime without being overtired. Once you get an overtired baby, bedtime and the night is a nightmare. You will get nightwakings, clingyness, tantrums, etc. It's a pain for parents to give regular naps because it cuts into their own schedule and limits the outing times. However, it's really essential to get your child into a routine and in the beginning that means staying home for naps and early bedtimes.

We never used the cry it out method. We did pick up/put down. We would pick her up when she cried and then put her down immediately when she stopped. One night, it took us nearly 2 hrs to get her back to sleep. It was hard. But we stuck with it. Eventually she just put herself back to sleep. You need to stick with a method, no matter how long it takes. Some kids are really stubborn.

Good luck!

[AnnaBanana]

I'm curious about the reading to the child. Our daughter does not like to be held (unless she's sleeping) so getting through one book is tough enough, never mind several. Any suggestions on how to have her sit still for a reading session?

If the child won't sit still, then you can sit beside the child on the floor, put a blanket out that he / she can lay on or sit on, but no toys. the point is that you will have soft music, and your voice is soothing (doesn't matter if you're reading or not, just that you're talking in a monotonous voice for a while). if your child is a crawler / walker and bolts for the door, you dont' want to enter into a power struggle, so my recommendation would be (if you can!) is to use teamwork... so have both parents helping out with the bookreading portion of the evening. so one is holding the child, or sitting beside them and encouraging them to listen / sit nicely / sit still, and the other parent does the reading. you could also have one parent hold the child (over the shoulder or whatever hold is best for you) while standing with gentle bouncing, while the other parent reads. another option is to get a big yoga/pilates ball in the bedroom, and sit with your child on your lap while gently bouncing up and down. some kids are happier with that movement than the back and forth of a rocking chair.

But my kids all loved being held so i'm certainly no expert - anyone else have tips?

[Monette]

Remember that kids that age usually cannot stay still for more than a few pages at a time. They also are more interested in flipping pages and touching things than what you're actually reading. They don't feel the need to "finish" the book like we do.

We had a number of books and we'd just let her grab another one whenever she wanted. We could easily be going through 5 books in 15 mins of reading. Longer attention span seems to happen around 18 months and on.

[AnnaBanana]

+1
you can let her hold a different book, the point isn't for her to get to know all sorts of stories at 9 months old, the point is more to be doing a very quiet, monotonous activity for a good period of time prior to bed time.

[jed]

For us, it was consistency and a routine. It NEVER changes - time and type. Raising a child is not easy, its one of the hardest things a successful child-rearing parent can do, but also one of the most rewarding. When its done right. Who are you doing favors for by giving in to the child? Not him/her and certainly not yourself.

[angels2009]

Thanks again for all the advice and support. My husband just bought me the Book Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child, so I am hoping it will help.

[Dragon120]

Thanks again for all the advice and support. My husband just bought me the Book Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child, so I am hoping it will help.

Keep an open mind when you read it :)

Best of luck and hang in there...

[AnnaBanana]

good luck and let us know how it goes!

[Yours]

If she co-sleeps, we can get an extra hour or two max. What kind of product is that Camilia Naturalpath... drops? and does it put them to sleep.

She has her 2 bottom teeth

She is very active during the day and crawling, she eats well, she is just a bad sleeper.

Thanks for the advice I will check it out..

Camilia Naturalpath is drop to help baby teething problem. Can't sleep well.
It's unlike other OralTeeth product out there. It's natural product non medical. Baby takes it then goes to bed.

Your daughter is 9 months old and have 2 teeth. It's going to continue until she get all the teeth. Camilia Naturalpath help them to sleep better and will train for nighttime sleeping too. Couple of my mommy friends tried and work.

Since co-sleep doesn't work either, I will definitly think she is TEETHING

[jindogae]

I wish this statement were true. Our daughter co-sleeps with us and whether she is teething or not she does not sleep well.

[QUOTE=Since co-sleep doesn't work either, I will definitly think she is TEETHING[/QUOTE]

[Yours]

I wish this statement were true. Our daughter co-sleeps with us and whether she is teething or not she does not sleep well.

This is considering Angel's case that her daugther is well with others things. Like eating, crusing, playing etc. Maybe yours is due to other reason.

[902linger]

She was colic for 5 months and she cannot fall asleep on her own, I have tried to leave her, but she needs to be held to fall asleep

OP, I feel your pain. When our son was young he had horrible colic (later diagnosed as reflux, got better with gripe water, medicine and switching to soy formula) and we had plenty of trouble with sleep. He would only fall asleep in our arms and often would wake up as soon as we lied him down in his crib. We would have to wait about 20mins after he fell asleep in our arms to lie him down without waking him up. Usually he was good for us to leave the room after that, but around 8'ish months he would wake up right away and scream until he was held again. We tried different sleep training methods but the only thing that seemed to work was to hold him until he was in deep sleep.

Then, I heard the author of Bed Timing interviewed on CBC one day (book link (http://www.amazon.ca/dp/1554680476/), blog link (http://bedtiming.typepad.com/)). Their concept was different - it didn't matter as much which method you chose, what mattered more was when you decided to apply it. We bought the book and found out that around 8-9 months is when separation anxiety is at it's highest and sleep training isn't recommended. We decided to wait another month or so and then committed to trying cry-it-out. It was like magic - seriously, after two nights (hard, long nights) he was sleeping through the night. We could put him down awake (after some rocking, books, lullabies, etc) and he would put himself to sleep quietly.

Now he's 15mos and sleeps soundly from 7pm-7am with naps from about 9am-11am, 1pm-3pm and again from around 4:30pm-5pm. When our next one comes, we'll try the sleep training a little earlier - well before the separation anxiety stage kicks in.

[AnnaBanana]

any update from the OP on progress?
fingers crossed that you haven't updated because you're catching up on 9 months of lost sleep!

[angels2009]

No luck so far.... she is actually getting worse and will not sleep alone.
I read the Healthly Sleep Habits Happy Child and implemented some of the tips, but I did not do the crying methods they suggested.

We are calling the sleep doulas tomorrow....will keep everyone updated.

Thanks again

[Fx45]

We've totally screwed the sleeping thing up. When my wife was at home on mat leave my son would sleep in our bed so that night feedings were easier, but after she went back to work @ 11 months we couldn't get him to sleep in the crib. He just wouldn't sleep and we needed to go to work so we couldn't let him keep crying.

We finally compromised by dropping one side of the crib and pushing it against our bed, which worked for a few months. Then he got mobile, and decided that sleeping in between mommy and daddy was more comfortable. This caused a lot of back problems for both me and my wife.

Now it's gotten worse. He now changes his mind throughout the night where he wants to sleep. He'll decide the crib for a while. Then wake up in the middle of the night and decide he wants to sleep in the middle, in which case he throws his blanket to the middle of the bed, and tries to jump over my wife (of course, what he actually does is land on my wife). Then he sleeps another few hours, wakes up, and decides the crib is better. Reverse process.

Think what we'll have to do is take a week of vacation and just implement the crying method.

[angels2009]

So I did call the Sleep Doulas. They were fantastic and so helpful. They customized a plan specific for my daughter. We are on the second night of sleep training and already she has slept the best she ever has with very little crying. I cannot believed it worked, they are miracle workers and they helped me with questions that none of the books I tried ever answered.

I would TOTALLY recommend using a Sleep Doula if you are not comfortable with the Cry it Out method and want to see results.

I slept in total more than 6 hours....more than I have in the 10 months since she was born.

Who could have thought that my daughter could do it on her own... I am so proud!!! :D

[jindogae]

It seems our 13 month old daughter has started to learn to fall asleep on her own. We wait until she's very tired (almost asleep) and then put her in her crib. She usually whines/cries for no more than a couple of minutes before falling asleep. She may last an hour, sometimes two, but inevitebly she wakes up crying. Once she wakes up we just bring her to bed with us. She'll usually wake another 2-3 times while in bed.
My question is what recommendations people have with regards to the first wake up? Do we let her cry and hope that she falls asleep? We don't mind a little crying but don't want to let her get worked up.

[angels2009]

We were in the same boat, after the first wake up (which was 20min) we would bring our daughter into bed with us. It was too much and so that is why we called the sleep doula, our daughter is now sleeping 10 hours straight. She may wake up a few times throughout the night, but she puts herself straight to sleep.

I would try a white noise machine in her room.

If you are comfortable you can let her cry it out, but that is something you have to decide if you want to.

There was some crying involved with our sleep training, but we were supporting her and so we did not leave her alone.

[SW20 MR2]

Stupid question:

What types of things do the sleep doulas recommend?

[AnnaBanana]

ya, let's hear all about it! now we're totally curious as to how your baby who did not sleep at all, is now a great sleeper! details please!!!

[angels2009]

There were soooo many things...one thing was a white noise machine which they want on all the time while they sleep. They customize a plan based on your child and their personality, so it would be different for each child. To be honest the plan is over 2 pages long, but there is earlier bedtimes and they want you to follow a routine (bottle, bath, etc) and no Soother as they do not want anything to be associated with sleep. They did recommend a lovey (one thing that stays in the crib)

They are going to be at the Baby Show downtown, so if you are going you can talk to them.

Thanks to everyone for your advice and support.

[bltman]

but there is earlier bedtimes and they want you to follow a routine (bottle, bath, etc) and no Soother as they do not want anything to be associated with sleep. They did recommend a lovey (one thing that stays in the crib)


Sounds a lot like the Dr. Marc Weissbluth's book Healthy Sleep Habits; Happy Child. Earlier bedtimes and standard routines are his key points - all designed based on the sleep needs, habits and patterns of babies/children.

[creamsoda]

It seems our 13 month old daughter has started to learn to fall asleep on her own. We wait until she's very tired (almost asleep) and then put her in her crib. She usually whines/cries for no more than a couple of minutes before falling asleep. She may last an hour, sometimes two, but inevitebly she wakes up crying. Once she wakes up we just bring her to bed with us. She'll usually wake another 2-3 times while in bed.
My question is what recommendations people have with regards to the first wake up? Do we let her cry and hope that she falls asleep? We don't mind a little crying but don't want to let her get worked up.

My daughter used to do this at the 1 hour mark after falling asleep. The habit seemed to come and go, around the 8 - 12 month mark. It would be a fierce cry - a worrisome cry. We'd go in and lay with her on the bed in their room and she would fall asleep. Then we'd move her to the crib. At one point we decided to just let her cry it out. Took a a couple of days, I think. She's now back to 12 hours a night.

My son (her twin), was waking up around dawn for about the last 2 weeks. I would go in an give him a bottle. 4 nights ago we decided to let him CIO at that time. Last night he slept for 12 hours straight. We've had to do the CIO a few times, and I'm sure we will do it again many times after set backs. I'm now comfortable with it because I realize it works for my kids and they wake up happier. We've got a very early bedtime - 6:00 or 6:30. Some days it's even been before 6 pm. Bath isn't part of our routine. Takes too long with twins and too much effort since my daughter hates it. But we're consistent with our approach (most nights) and they go to bed on their own. Naps though seem to be more hit and miss. They seem to play a lot more together during nap time. There's a lot of laughing, crib banging, calling, babbling. I'm just always hopeful that they will at some point fall asleep. Every day is different!

I'm no expert, but my experience has been that CIO works for us. We need to work on being consistent though. 12 hours a night is possible - even with twins sharing a room. If anyone has nap strategies & tricks for 14-months old, I love to hear them.

[redsilk]

like most posters here, i too have trouble with the whole sleep thing.

almost 11 months and last night he woke up 5 times. Usually he would wake up 2 times and then a wake up call at around 6:30 and not wanting to sleep anymore. We had started a routine since he was like 1-2 months old. Lights dim down in the house, milk, then story time, then bed. Since he was 8 months, he cried like crazy when we would put him to bed, standing up and cryign til he choked and gagged. He had to sleep in my arms then i could put him down. We tried the CIO method and it took quite awhile (about 10 days), but it did help but not perfect. He woudl still cry sometimes for like 20 mintues before he sleeps. Other days he would cry for one minute. Did you guys let your baby CIO when they wake up in the middle of the night too? we have not tried this yet, but reaching that point, as now he has started to cry so much when he wakes up at 4:00am and i can't get him back to sleep, even when i bring him to bed with me, he still cries like crazy. We use to feed him when he woke up at night, but has stopped that recently in hopes he realizes that he shoudl sleep at night and not eat.

we tried to put him to bed earlier(like a half hour only) but it was a disaster. He was so active and full of energy, that he went crazy when we put him in bed.

I am going back to work very soon, and i don't see how i will function if this continues. Does anyone know a sleep doula in montreal???

desperately seeking sleep.

[creamsoda]

Did you guys let your baby CIO when they wake up in the middle of the night too?

Yes, we did. It worked better with our daughter than our son. Initially we'd take pity on them, thinking they really needed us. Then, once we managed to get them to sleep through / self soothe, we concluded that we shouldn't have waited so long to let them figure it out. Obviously, when they are young, they need the attention / the feeds, so you need to judge when is the right time for your baby. Good solid sleep is so important for them - and us!

Addendum: we found that the technique of going in at increased intervals didn't work for us. our daughter would yell even louder and it was harder for us to go in and then just leave while she's still screaming, begging us to pick her up. for us, it was just easier to not go in at all. cruel? maybe. but it worked, and she seems happier for it.

[angels2009]

I would only recommend a Sleep Doula if you are not comfortable with letting your child cry it out. I personally could not do that, but that is me. I paid $325 for an in home consultation and I received 3 days on unlimited phone and email support and I am still give updates to my doula one week later.

They helped me to have a happier more rested baby, and I did read Heathy Sleep Habits Happy Child, and the doula does suggest an earlier bedtime, but they will set the time based on your child.

If you are interested here is the website http://www.sleepdoula.com

To me it was the best money I spent and I got my child to sleep through the night without leaving her to cry it out. She may get up at night once or twice, but she puts herself back to sleep in a minute or two.

[Monette]

We went through a lot of these issues mentioned here. We got bedtime resistance and wakings shortly after going to bed. All of these went away when we finally got the napping fixed. It was long and very hard work doing that, but I was committed to it for months since I knew I was going back to work soon and night sleep was crucial for all of us.

The less overtired she is, the more willing she is to go to bed and stay asleep. It was true as a baby and it's true now as a toddler. Like PP, we never let her CIO and we were still able to train her to sleep. We have friends who have older children who still have sleep issues. It's really crucial to stay committed to training them when they are babies. Don't give in and take the easy way. It's a temporary fix and what you start you have to continue with until the child can give it up. I heard through a friend about a mom who still sleeps with her 9 year old daughter because she still won't move to her own room.