Saturn Astra XR 3 $12,995 Vue XE AWD $23,160 Outlook XR $32,500 Until Supplies Last

[ottofly]

Here we go again folks, except it's the XR and the add includes all other Saturns. This is was in today's Montreal Gazette again. The add say's September 21-22-23 but the dealer I called said it'll keep going until they're all sold. Again, not sure of this is nationwide. Maybe someone here can dig up the add somewhere online and post it.

Saturn XR 3-doors.........$12,995......rebate of $8805

Saturn Vue XE AWD.......$23,160......rebate of $8500

Saturn Outlook XR.........$32,500......rebate of $8500

All prices include GM loyalty rebate of $1000. Vehicles in stock only.

You can also use the GM's cash for clunkers program and get $500-$3000 trade-in for all cars 1995 and older.

[blainehamilton]

Getting warmer. With any luck in a month or so you'll be able to snatch up an Astra XR for under 10g out the door with all incentives and discounts...

[Engi-Nir]

Here we go again folks, except it's the XR and the add includes all other Saturns. This is was in today's Montreal Gazette again. The add say's September 21-22-23 but the dealer I called said it'll keep going until they're all sold. Again, not sure of this is nationwide. Maybe someone here can dig up the add somewhere online and post it.

Saturn XR 3-doors.........$12,995......rebate of $8805

Saturn Vue XE AWD.......$23,160......rebate of $8500

Saturn Outlook XR.........$32,500......rebate of $8500

All prices include GM loyalty rebate of $1000. Vehicles in stock only.

You can also use the GM's cash for clunkers program and get $500-$3000 trade-in for all cars 1995 and older.

Outlook was $25k last year, that was a deal

[kool1]

Outlook was $25k last year, that was a deal

That was a base XE though. This is an XR.

I agree, that was a deal though.

[mmdc]

Would anyone be able to post a flyer?

All my local dealership has left are XR 3-doors and 5-doors which cost more than I had wanted to spend. However, these new prices make it VERY VERY tempting!

I was originally quoted $17,200 (includes delivery) + $450 paperwork fee + tax for an XR 5-door with automatic transmission.

Here we go again folks, except it's the XR and the add includes all other Saturns. This is was in today's Montreal Gazette again. The add say's September 21-22-23 but the dealer I called said it'll keep going until they're all sold. Again, not sure of this is nationwide. Maybe someone here can dig up the add somewhere online and post it.

Saturn XR 3-doors.........$12,995......rebate of $8805

Saturn Vue XE AWD.......$23,160......rebate of $8500

Saturn Outlook XR.........$32,500......rebate of $8500

All prices include GM loyalty rebate of $1000. Vehicles in stock only.

You can also use the GM's cash for clunkers program and get $500-$3000 trade-in for all cars 1995 and older.

[a in yul]

i tried to log onto the digital version of the gazette, but cannot access the ad, its on p/10 if that matters;

maybe someone with a sub can upload it for u..:cry:

[goflamesgo]

maybe someone with a sub can upload it for u..:cry:

Also found on Canada.com

http://my.cms.p2ionline.com/CMS/NewPhase/data/images/7564221.jpg

[ottofly]

Also found on Canada.com




LOL. How do you do that?? Where do you find these adds??

[setell]

Wonder if it'll get to the point of a XR for 15k After taxes/fees/automatic. If so I might buy a second car just to have a cheapy car around!:D

[kool1]

Looks like the clunker deal can be added also on top of GM Visa points if you have them.

[setell]

I wish they included newer cars. My dad wants to get rid of our 2001 echo and we're not getting much from the Saturn dealer in Halifax. They offered us a mesly $1800 >:(

[RunnerForDeals]

Would anyone be able to post a flyer?

All my local dealership has left are XR 3-doors and 5-doors which cost more than I had wanted to spend. However, these new prices make it VERY VERY tempting!

I was originally quoted $17,200 (includes delivery) + $450 paperwork fee + tax for an XR 5-door with automatic transmission.

That so called paperwork fee is a pure profit grab from the dealership. Don't pay it, there is no need for it and it is just a scam. If they refuse go to a different dealership.

[ottofly]

That so called paperwork fee is a pure profit grab from the dealership. Don't pay it, there is no need for it and it is just a scam. If they refuse go to a different dealership.


What should matter is the FINAL price of the car. For me, when I bought my Vibe, I had a final price in mind and told the dealer. I didn't care how many or what kind of fees he put in or how he did it as long as the final price wasn't one dollar more. After some back and forth bickering with the sales manager, I got my price with $250 admin fee added. What's important is to have a CCC report and a final price in mind. If he can match it, then who cares how he does it.

[mavmav]

I noticed the original Montreal deal post regarding the Astras a couple of weeks ago. Then went to the GM web site to learn more. On the Monday before the Ontario version came out in the papers the GM site was already adding had the full discount using the "build" function. It appeared on the screen once you complete the process. I'm pretty sure its nationwide.

Long story short, bought the car before the local newspaper add came out at a great price with the discount. Snooze you loose if you wait for it. Most XE's where already gone at that point and I had the choice of a single remaining Manual or moving up to an XR. :)Love the car, especially the 5spd which was what I was after anyway.

Purchased from Motor City Saturn in Whitby - they dealer was upfront and straight forward to deal with. I have no problems recommending them. Had at least 7 of the 3dr XR's on the lot at the time.

With GM employee discount the closing charges are:
1400 Freight
300 Admin fee
100 Air tax
75 Fuel tax
and PST/GST

So if the car and the price truly interests I think one should move on it. Try it and make your decision. Really, where can you get a new higher quality car with warranty for the price.

[blakjak]

These are great deals (and will get even better as time goes on) for someone who plans to keep their vehicle for a very long time. With Saturn ceasing its operations in Canada, however, the resale values of these vehicles will plummet bigtime and very quickly.

[napoleon1769]

How much was it off before? I thought it was 10995 + 1500 to upgrade from the XE to XR in Ontario? At least that was what some of the east coasters claimed to getting.

[mmdc]

Thanks goflamesgo for posting the flyer! Also thanks to RunnerForDeals and ottofly for the negotiation tips.

Alright, so here is what it looks like:
$12,995 Astra XR-3 Door
+ $1,350 automatic transmission
+ $1,400 destination charge
= $15,745

$15,745 plus applicable taxes for me is ~$17,630. Great deal, yet still kind of steep as I do not really require a new vehicle. It would certainly be nice at the right price (read: hot hot deal). Hopefully it goes even lower!

[Imago]

Where did the thread go on the XE's? Can't seem to find it anymore and had some interesting news to share.

[dk84]

Where did the thread go on the XE's? Can't seem to find it anymore and had some interesting news to share.

here you go
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=789967

[kool1]

These are great deals (and will get even better as time goes on) for someone who plans to keep their vehicle for a very long time. With Saturn ceasing its operations in Canada, however, the resale values of these vehicles will plummet bigtime and very quickly.

That's what they said about Oldsmobiles also but when it came time to sell my Intrigue, I got about the same as any other midsize GM car. People don't look at the brand, they look at the company behind it.

At $11- 13K for a base Astra... what big worry is depreciation anyway?

[ottofly]

That's what they said about Oldsmobiles also but when it came time to sell my Intrigue, I got about the same as any other midsize GM car. People don't look at the brand, they look at the company behind it.

At $11- 13K for a base Astra... what big worry is depreciation anyway?

+1

lol at the fear mongerers. At this price, you can probably drive the car with minimal depreciation the first 2 years. Don't mean to sound redundant, but this is a bargain. Just don't forget to call for some insurance quotes. It was a deal breaker for someone I know.

[william879]

Is it possible to get the $1,000 loyalty discount, even I don't currently drive a GM?

[galanz]

That's what they said about Oldsmobiles also but when it came time to sell my Intrigue, I got about the same as any other midsize GM car. People don't look at the brand, they look at the company behind it.

At $11- 13K for a base Astra... what big worry is depreciation anyway?

Isn't Buick supposed to be re-labeling Opels next year?
If they do rebadge the Astra as the Skylark as is rumored and sells it for $20K+ these current Astras are going to hold their value very, very well.

[Damed]

Going to look at an XE 5 Door tonight.

Dealer quoted my $14,900 OTR.

[ricoboxing]

Going to look at an XE 5 Door tonight.

Dealer quoted my $14,900 OTR.

what dealership?

[xtracrispy123]

That's what they said about Oldsmobiles also but when it came time to sell my Intrigue, I got about the same as any other midsize GM car. People don't look at the brand, they look at the company behind it.

At $11- 13K for a base Astra... what big worry is depreciation anyway?

I think this price for this caliber of car is amazing.

What'd worry me is the dissolving of the Saturn dealer network in Canada, coupled with the sale of Opel to Magna, and the associated stipulation that they can't sell Opel cars here...

Where are we going to get parts???

[babydru]

Is it possible to get the $1,000 loyalty discount, even I don't currently drive a GM?


I don't think that's possible, although you could ask. It really is called a LOYALTY DISCOUNT, so it would defeat the purpose of giving the discount if you didn't already own a GM car.

[lingenfelter7]

What is the financing on these? Such as the astra?

[dk84]

Going to look at an XE 5 Door tonight.

Dealer quoted my $14,900 OTR.

yea, which dealership? I can't find any XE 5 door in manual.

[kool1]

I think this price for this caliber of car is amazing.

What'd worry me is the dissolving of the Saturn dealer network in Canada, coupled with the sale of Opel to Magna, and the associated stipulation that they can't sell Opel cars here...

Where are we going to get parts???

GM still owns 35% of Opel and Chevy dealers will service Saturn going forward. Further, GM is bringing Opels to North America through Buick going forward. The upcoming Buick Regal is essentially an Opel Insignia and the new Astra could be a Skylark according to a couple of articles I have read.

[acwong]

Does anyone know where I can still find a five door XE deal in Ontario? Manual or Auto doesn't matter.
thanks

[DealRacer]

Can anyone confirm this price is available in Ontario. So far from everything I have learned it is the Montreal dealers only and not GM across Canada?

[Imago]

A long day yesterday… I used Aeroplan miles to fly from Regina to Calgary to pick up my new twilight blue XR 5 door and drove it home. There were none in Saskatchewan configured as I wanted.

The car is an absolute blast to drive, especially with the 5 speed manual transmission. There’s lots of power although I hear the automatic may be a bit sluggish. The steering wheel controls look after most computer/radio functions: avg. mileage, instant mileage, stop watch, sound system controls etc. etc. The sound system was great, (I preferred the “rock” setting). Seats are firm but comfortable even on the 8 hour drive home.

When I checked the tires they were at their maximum inflation @ 44 lbs. I may reduce that a bit as while the steering/handling is very nimble the ride is a bit stiff for my liking. The optional sport suspension package must make this car extremely stiff (but likely handles like a sports car). Any suggestions on tire pressure?

There’s lots of head room for my 6’4” frame. First stop was Swift Current… 530 kms where it took $37.00 to fill averaging 7.1 litres/100km. Not too bad and it may improve as it breaks in. Not as good as my Jetta TDI but for a car that’s half the price, not too shabby. I actually thought there were many similarities between the two. Saskatchewan plates cost just over $1000.00 (thank goodness SGI hasn’t been privatized… yet). Evan, the sales manager in Calgary was great and included mud flaps, fancy locking wheel nuts, filled the gas tank and paid my cab fare from the airport.

Cost?

MSRP including $1400.00 delivery: $22,520.00. Add to this the ubiquitous dealer admin fees etc.

My actual cost?

$16,200 which included GST and the 5% Sask. GST.

I’m very happy with this car and glad I bought it. I’m surprised they haven’t sold more of these gems and may curtail production. I also recommend it despite recent events regarding Opel in Europe. So far, so good!

[maniacshopper]

A long day yesterday… I used Aeroplan miles to fly from Regina to Calgary to pick up my new twilight blue XR 5 door and drove it home. There were none in Saskatchewan configured as I wanted.

The car is an absolute blast to drive, especially with the 5 speed manual transmission. There’s lots of power although I hear the automatic may be a bit sluggish. The steering wheel controls look after most computer/radio functions: avg. mileage, instant mileage, stop watch, sound system controls etc. etc. The sound system was great, (I preferred the “rock” setting). Seats are firm but comfortable even on the 8 hour drive home.

When I checked the tires they were at their maximum inflation @ 44 lbs. I may reduce that a bit as while the steering/handling is very nimble the ride is a bit stiff for my liking. The optional sport suspension package must make this car extremely stiff (but likely handles like a sports car). Any suggestions on tire pressure?

There’s lots of head room for my 6’4” frame. First stop was Swift Current… 530 kms where it took $37.00 to fill averaging 7.1 litres/100km. Not too bad and it may improve as it breaks in. Not as good as my Jetta TDI but for a car that’s half the price, not too shabby. I actually thought there were many similarities between the two. Saskatchewan plates cost just over $1000.00 (thank goodness SGI hasn’t been privatized… yet). Evan, the sales manager in Calgary was great and included mud flaps, fancy locking wheel nuts, filled the gas tank and paid my cab fare from the airport.

Cost?

MSRP including $1400.00 delivery: $22,520.00. Add to this the ubiquitous dealer admin fees etc.

My actual cost?

$16,200 which included GST and the 5% Sask. GST.

I’m very happy with this car and glad I bought it. I’m surprised they haven’t sold more of these gems and may curtail production. I also recommend it despite recent events regarding Opel in Europe. So far, so good!


Sweet deal. as for the tyre psi, I'd follow what the manual or the door says. I think 34 psi is fine.

[napoleon1769]

A long day yesterday… I used Aeroplan miles to fly from Regina to Calgary to pick up my new twilight blue XR 5 door and drove it home. There were none in Saskatchewan configured as I wanted.

The car is an absolute blast to drive, especially with the 5 speed manual transmission. There’s lots of power although I hear the automatic may be a bit sluggish. The steering wheel controls look after most computer/radio functions: avg. mileage, instant mileage, stop watch, sound system controls etc. etc. The sound system was great, (I preferred the “rock” setting). Seats are firm but comfortable even on the 8 hour drive home.

When I checked the tires they were at their maximum inflation @ 44 lbs. I may reduce that a bit as while the steering/handling is very nimble the ride is a bit stiff for my liking. The optional sport suspension package must make this car extremely stiff (but likely handles like a sports car). Any suggestions on tire pressure?

There’s lots of head room for my 6’4” frame. First stop was Swift Current… 530 kms where it took $37.00 to fill averaging 7.1 litres/100km. Not too bad and it may improve as it breaks in. Not as good as my Jetta TDI but for a car that’s half the price, not too shabby. I actually thought there were many similarities between the two. Saskatchewan plates cost just over $1000.00 (thank goodness SGI hasn’t been privatized… yet). Evan, the sales manager in Calgary was great and included mud flaps, fancy locking wheel nuts, filled the gas tank and paid my cab fare from the airport.

Cost?

MSRP including $1400.00 delivery: $22,520.00. Add to this the ubiquitous dealer admin fees etc.

My actual cost?

$16,200 which included GST and the 5% Sask. GST.

I’m very happy with this car and glad I bought it. I’m surprised they haven’t sold more of these gems and may curtail production. I also recommend it despite recent events regarding Opel in Europe. So far, so good!

You got an XR for only 16200 with 10% tax? That pretty much means that they're selling an XR for $12000 instead of the XE for $10995! Great deal! I was thinking of going down to Calgary (I'm from Edmonton) to get one there but decided against it since the car wouldn't be broken in yet.

Did you have to do any negotiating or was that their offer right off the bat?

[_ninja_man]

Does anyone know where I can still find a five door XE deal in Ontario? Manual or Auto doesn't matter.
thanks

saturn of sudbury

[miserman]

A long day yesterday… I used Aeroplan miles to fly from Regina to Calgary to pick up my new twilight blue XR 5 door and drove it home. There were none in Saskatchewan configured as I wanted.

The car is an absolute blast to drive, especially with the 5 speed manual transmission. There’s lots of power although I hear the automatic may be a bit sluggish. The steering wheel controls look after most computer/radio functions: avg. mileage, instant mileage, stop watch, sound system controls etc. etc. The sound system was great, (I preferred the “rock” setting). Seats are firm but comfortable even on the 8 hour drive home.

When I checked the tires they were at their maximum inflation @ 44 lbs. I may reduce that a bit as while the steering/handling is very nimble the ride is a bit stiff for my liking. The optional sport suspension package must make this car extremely stiff (but likely handles like a sports car). Any suggestions on tire pressure?

There’s lots of head room for my 6’4” frame. First stop was Swift Current… 530 kms where it took $37.00 to fill averaging 7.1 litres/100km. Not too bad and it may improve as it breaks in. Not as good as my Jetta TDI but for a car that’s half the price, not too shabby. I actually thought there were many similarities between the two. Saskatchewan plates cost just over $1000.00 (thank goodness SGI hasn’t been privatized… yet). Evan, the sales manager in Calgary was great and included mud flaps, fancy locking wheel nuts, filled the gas tank and paid my cab fare from the airport.

Cost?

MSRP including $1400.00 delivery: $22,520.00. Add to this the ubiquitous dealer admin fees etc.

My actual cost?

$16,200 which included GST and the 5% Sask. GST.

I’m very happy with this car and glad I bought it. I’m surprised they haven’t sold more of these gems and may curtail production. I also recommend it despite recent events regarding Opel in Europe. So far, so good!

Did the $16,200 include the $1,000 GM Loyalty Discount? What is the breakdown of the various fees such as Air Tax, Gas Tax, Admin Fee, Licence and Registration? Any other fees? What discount did the dealer give on top of the $7,000 Cash Discount and $1,000 GM Loyalty Discount?

Sounds like you got a great deal!

[napoleon1769]

I thought the cash discount was only 6000? When did it become 7000? Not including the loyalty discount that is.

[Imago]

I had no GM "loyalty" but I did ok anyway, I think.

MSRP: $22,520 (includes the $1400.00 delivery fee) plus $130.00 (mud flaps) and $75.00 (locking lug nuts).

Total cash sale: $14359.18
Tire tax: $20.00
Admin. fee: $349.00
PST and GST: $735.41 and $736.41 (not sure why they're $1.00 different... both are 5%).
Total: $16,200.

When I registered the car at the Regina CAA prior to going to Calgary I filled out an application for a no charge CAA credit card and got a nice (read: free) CAA fleece car blanket to boot! As I mentioned, plate insurance for me on the XR was just over $1000.00. I also put a package policy on it which, for an additional $40.00, provides comparable car replacement in the event of total loss for the next 3 years.

With all the stones on Saskatchewan roads I've had stone chips repaired 3 or 4 times at no charge in the past few years which have helped pay for my package policies.

More observations: I really like the fog lamps (good for seeing deer hiding in the ditch waiting to leap out in front of you) and the projector high beams are the best of any car I've driven.

[miserman]

I had no GM "loyalty" but I did ok anyway, I think.

MSRP: $22,520 (includes the $1400.00 delivery fee) plus $130.00 (mud flaps) and $75.00 (locking lug nuts).

Total cash sale: $14359.18
Tire tax: $20.00
Admin. fee: $349.00
PST and GST: $735.41 and $736.41 (not sure why they're $1.00 different... both are 5%).
Total: $16,200.

When I registered the car at the Regina CAA prior to going to Calgary I filled out an application for a no charge CAA credit card and got a nice (read: free) CAA fleece car blanket to boot! As I mentioned, plate insurance for me on the XR was just over $1000.00. I also put a package policy on it which, for an additional $40.00, provides comparable car replacement in the event of total loss for the next 3 years.

With all the stones on Saskatchewan roads I've had stone chips repaired 3 or 4 times at no charge in the past few years which have helped pay for my package policies.

More observations: I really like the fog lamps (good for seeing deer hiding in the ditch waiting to leap out in front of you) and the projector high beams are the best of any car I've driven.

Here is the CCC report for your car.
2009 Saturn Astra 5dr HB XR
4-door Compact Passenger Car

Manufacture warranty
Basic: 3 Years/60,000 km Drivetrain: 5 Years/160,000 km Corrosion: 3 Years/60,000 km Rust-Through 6 Years/160,000 km Hybrid Component: 8 Years/160,000 km Roadside Assistance: 5 Years/160,000 km includes Courtesy Transportation

Fuel economy
EnerGuide Estimate - City (L/100 km): 8.5
EnerGuide Estimate - City (L/100 km): 8.4
EnerGuide Estimate - Hwy (L/100 km): 6.1
EnerGuide Estimate - Hwy (L/100 km): 6.6



Retail Price* Wholesale Price**
Base $21,425.00 $19,825.00
Freight $1,400.00 $1,400.00
Optional equipment selected
- FEDERAL AIR CONDITIONING EXCISE TAX (-EXTAX) $100.00 $100.00
- 1SC PREFERRED EQUIPMENT GROUP -inc: std equipment (1SC) $0.00 $0.00
- 1.8L DOHC SFI 16-VALVE VVT I4 ENGINE (STD) (2H0) $0.00 $0.00
- 5-SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION (STD) (MM3) $0.00 $0.00
- 17" 5-SPOKE ALLOY WHEELS -inc: 17" tire (REQ: PDX Sport Handling Grp) (QL4) $0.00 $0.00
- P225/45SR17 ALL-SEASON PERFORMANCE TIRES (QNE) $0.00 $0.00
- RECLINING FRONT BUCKET SEATS -inc: adjustable headrest, manual driver seat height adjuster (STD) (A51) $0.00 $0.00
- TWILIGHT BLUE (4CU) $0.00 $0.00
- UPLEVEL CLOTH SEAT TRIM (STD) (PHQ) $0.00 $0.00
- CHARCOAL SEAT TRIM (80X) $0.00 $0.00
- AM/FM STEREO W/CD/MP3 PLAYER -inc: clock, (7) speakers (STD) (UCH) $0.00 $0.00
- SPORT HANDLING PKG -inc: StabiliTrak stability control, lowered sport suspension, electro-hydraulic steering, 17" 5-spoke alloy wheels (PDX) $930.00 $834.00
Dealer Marketing Association $54.00
Totals including all items above $23,855.00 $22,213.00
*Retail Price - Also referred to as the M.S.R.P. or Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price or Retail Factory Price. The price the dealer wants you to pay.

** Wholesale Price - Also referred to as the Dealer Invoice Price, Dealer Factory Price or Dealer Cost. The price the dealer pays for the car, before adjusting for any applicable Factory Incentives. To start your negotiations, take this number, add a fair dealer markup/profit (3%-6% on most cars) and deduct any applicable factory incentive below.

Current Factory Incentive Programs.
Incentive Type Value Term Expiry
Cash Incentives
GM Cash for Clunkers Program/Factory to Customer Rebate $1,000.00 November 2, 2009
Canadian Forces Personnel Appreciation Program $500.00 January 4, 2010
GM Owner Loyalty Bonus Program/Factory to Customer Rebate $1,000.00 August 31, 2009
Pontiac Loyalty Bonus Program/Factory to Customer Rebate $1,000.00 August 31, 2009

According to the above, the retail (MSRP) price of your car is $23,855 plus the cost of the accessories (mud flaps and wheel lock kit), not $22,520.

Also, according to the above, the dealer cost for your car is $22,213 plus the cost of the mud flaps and wheel lock kit. After the $7,000 GM Cash Discount and an assumed cost of $150 for the accessories, the dealer cost of your car is $15,363. The dealer lost $1,004 selling you the car (15,363 - 14,359). Normally, the dealer wants to make at least $888 profit (4% of 22,213) on the car and most dealers want much more.

Is the car used, rather than new, or a demo, or a 2008 model year? How many km did it have when you bought it? Is the car a 5dr XR with the Sport Handling Package? Did you have another $1,000 incentive of some sort? If not, the deal does not make sense as dealers do not sell cars at a loss.

[kool1]

A long day yesterday… I used Aeroplan miles to fly from Regina to Calgary to pick up my new twilight blue XR 5 door and drove it home. There were none in Saskatchewan configured as I wanted.

The car is an absolute blast to drive, especially with the 5 speed manual transmission. There’s lots of power although I hear the automatic may be a bit sluggish. The steering wheel controls look after most computer/radio functions: avg. mileage, instant mileage, stop watch, sound system controls etc. etc. The sound system was great, (I preferred the “rock” setting). Seats are firm but comfortable even on the 8 hour drive home.

When I checked the tires they were at their maximum inflation @ 44 lbs. I may reduce that a bit as while the steering/handling is very nimble the ride is a bit stiff for my liking. The optional sport suspension package must make this car extremely stiff (but likely handles like a sports car). Any suggestions on tire pressure?

There’s lots of head room for my 6’4” frame. First stop was Swift Current… 530 kms where it took $37.00 to fill averaging 7.1 litres/100km. Not too bad and it may improve as it breaks in. Not as good as my Jetta TDI but for a car that’s half the price, not too shabby. I actually thought there were many similarities between the two. Saskatchewan plates cost just over $1000.00 (thank goodness SGI hasn’t been privatized… yet). Evan, the sales manager in Calgary was great and included mud flaps, fancy locking wheel nuts, filled the gas tank and paid my cab fare from the airport.

Cost?

MSRP including $1400.00 delivery: $22,520.00. Add to this the ubiquitous dealer admin fees etc.

My actual cost?

$16,200 which included GST and the 5% Sask. GST.

I’m very happy with this car and glad I bought it. I’m surprised they haven’t sold more of these gems and may curtail production. I also recommend it despite recent events regarding Opel in Europe. So far, so good!

Wow.. great deal. Congrats. I guess it's worth the drive!

[Imago]

Hey thanks for the CCC report, but it's not quite as good as you think... my Astra does not have the sport suspension package, stabilitrack or 17" wheels, they're the 16" aluminum rims that come standard on the XR model a step up from the XE butnot as nice as the 17" version that comes with the sport handling group.... I'll pm you with my VIN number and if you have access perhaps you can send me the actual CCC report as it would be great to have.

I qualified for no incentives and the car had 60 km on it when I picked it up.

[napoleon1769]

Hey thanks for the CCC report, but it's not quite as good as you think... my Astra does not have the sport suspension package, stabilitrack or 17" wheels, they're the 16" aluminum rims that come standard on the XR model a step up from the XE butnot as nice as the 17" version that comes with the sport handling group.... I'll pm you with my VIN number and if you have access perhaps you can send me the actual CCC report as it would be great to have.

I qualified for no incentives and the car had 60 km on it when I picked it up.

It's a demo. There's no reason why a car should have over 10km.

[AMD]

It's a demo. There's no reason why a car should have over 10km.

Usually a demo has like 5k km...

60km is nothing. That's a new car.

[miserman]

Usually a demo has like 5k km...

60km is nothing. That's a new car.

+1 Agree

[saturnsw2]

Usually a demo has like 5k km...

60km is nothing. That's a new car.

our xe 5door had 280kms on it.
it was driven from moncton to halifax as halifax had none with the options we needed.
jeff

[kool1]

Usually a demo has like 5k km...

60km is nothing. That's a new car.

Yep. New.

I had a guy that tried to sell me a demo with 8000 kms on it for $1000 off. Ya right! That's like 13% of the warranty gone.

[beerbaron105]

our xe 5door had 280kms on it.
it was driven from moncton to halifax as halifax had none with the options we needed.
jeff

Wow you guys must have been push-overs if you let them drive it from both points instead of flat-bedding it

[Imago]

Wow you guys must have been push-overs if you let them drive it from both points instead of flat-bedding it

The last truck I bought came from Edmonton, the dealer met me in Lloydminster from where I drove it home to Regina.

Flat bedding costs a minimum of $400.00 which a dealer will not absorb.

I'd rather drive the vehicle, get a sense of how it performs and save money to boot!

[napoleon1769]

It cost them $20 for them to tow it over lol. What liars.

[wai_jai268]

Hi

For those who have an Astra, how much insurance are you guys and girls paying? Is it a lot more than other cars in its class?

As a side note: Everyone seems to be talking about the Astra here. Anybody realize that no one mentioned about the Vue and Outlook? Kind of speaks about something about those two vehicles.

[darek_dade]

Hi

For those who have an Astra, how much insurance are you guys and girls paying? Is it a lot more than other cars in its class?

It's as cheap as any other Civic or Corolla.


As a side note: Everyone seems to be talking about the Astra here. Anybody realize that no one mentioned about the Vue and Outlook? Kind of speaks about something about those two vehicles.

Cause Astra is a great car.

[Canadian82]

Hi all;

I'm thinking about buying the Saturn Astra XE. I'm very familiar with Opel brand from my home country in Europe. I have no question about the car's quality. However I'm very worried about the service & warranty coverage in the future, since Saturn Canada is shutting down very soon.

Does anyone know how the warranty & service is gonna work for Astra?
Since dealers are shutting down, who's gonna take care of them?

The other problem I heard is that, the Astra does not have any other sister (similar) model in GM's other brands, and this could be a problem too for getting parts etc.

Please, I need your advise and help.

Thanks in advance :)

[smacd]

Saturn Saab of Calgary NE just sent me a flyer. They state "all of these vehicles come with a 5 year or 160,000 km warranty backed by General Motors plus a parts availability guarantee for the next 10 years".

[Canadian82]

Saturn Saab of Calgary NE just sent me a flyer. They state "all of these vehicles come with a 5 year or 160,000 km warranty backed by General Motors plus a parts availability guarantee for the next 10 years".

Thank you for your prompt reply. Actually that is the dealer I wanna buy from.
Do you know if they are shutting down as well? If so, then which dealer will take over the warranty & service especially for Astra?

Thanks again.

[Slippery_Pete]

I just bought a fully-loaded Astra XR-3 for $20,300 OTR...is this a good deal?

[ggweci]

Sorry if I missed it, but are these discounts only for "cash" deals, or can you also get financing through GM? If the latter, what are the rates?

[Slippery_Pete]

Sorry if I missed it, but are these discounts only for "cash" deals, or can you also get financing through GM? If the latter, what are the rates?

On the car I bought the guy said its the same price whether financing or cash. There's a ~60 dollar admin fee for financing. The rate through GMAC was 4.9% but you can always secure your own financing he said.

[Slippery_Pete]

Thank you for your prompt reply. Actually that is the dealer I wanna buy from.
Do you know if they are shutting down as well? If so, then which dealer will take over the warranty & service especially for Astra?

Thanks again.

Notices are being sent out to Saturn owners as to which dealers will service Saturn...so I guess we have to wait and see.

[miserman]

I just bought a fully-loaded Astra XR-3 for $20,300 OTR...is this a good deal?

What do you mean by fully loaded? List all of the options on your bill of sale including standard or automatic transmission.
Did you have the $1,000 GM Loyalty Bonus, or the Canadian Forces Rebate, or the Student Bonus, or the Clunker Rebate?
What was the total MSRP? New car or demo? How many km on car?

[Slippery_Pete]

What do you mean by fully loaded? List all of the options on your bill of sale including standard or automatic transmission.
Did you have the $1,000 GM Loyalty Bonus, or the Canadian Forces Rebate, or the Student Bonus, or the Clunker Rebate?
What was the total MSRP? New car or demo? How many km on car?

Sorry..its not fully loaded...I forgot about the tranny which is manual...I wanted that anyhow. No bonuses of any kind. There were 400 km on the car...a little high but still ok in my books. Go to the Saturn website and add every feature (except auto) and thats what I got. ie leather seats, 18 inch wheels, Advanced audio, seat warmers...etc..

[miserman]

Sorry..its not fully loaded...I forgot about the tranny which is manual...I wanted that anyhow. No bonuses of any kind. There were 400 km on the car...a little high but still ok in my books. Go to the Saturn website and add every feature (except auto) and thats what I got. ie leather seats, 18 inch wheels, Advanced audio, seat warmers...etc..

Here is the CCC Report for your car.
2009 Saturn Astra 3dr HB XR
4-door Compact Passenger Car


Retail Price* Wholesale Price**
Base $21,720.00 $20,098.00
Freight $1,400.00 $1,400.00
Optional equipment selected
- FEDERAL AIR CONDITIONING EXCISE TAX (-EXTAX) $100.00 $100.00
- 1SG PREFERRED EQUIPMENT GROUP -inc: leather seating surfaces, vinyl door trim, heated front seats, 18" alloy wheels, P225/40R18 performance tires, pwr electro-hydraulic steering (1SG) $1,990.00 $1,784.00
- 1.8L DOHC SFI 16-VALVE VVT I4 ENGINE (STD) (2H0) $0.00 $0.00
- 5-SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION (STD) (MM3) $0.00 $0.00
- P225/40R18 SUMMER ONLY PERFORMANCE TIRES (REQ: 1SG Preferred Equipment Group) (QNA) $0.00 $0.00
- SALSA RED (63U) $0.00 $0.00
- ADVANCED AUDIO GROUP -inc: AM/FM stereo w/6-disc CD/MP3 changer, enhanced information display, (7) speaker premium audio system (PCU) $955.00 $856.00
Dealer Marketing Association $54.00
Totals including all items above $26,165.00 $24,292.00
*Retail Price - Also referred to as the M.S.R.P. or Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price or Retail Factory Price. The price the dealer wants you to pay.

** Wholesale Price - Also referred to as the Dealer Invoice Price, Dealer Factory Price or Dealer Cost. The price the dealer pays for the car, before adjusting for any applicable Factory Incentives. To start your negotiations, take this number, add a fair dealer markup/profit (3%-6% on most cars) and deduct any applicable factory incentive below.

Current Factory Incentive Programs.
Incentive Type Value Term Expiry
Cash Incentives
GM Cash for Clunkers Program/Factory to Customer Rebate $1,000.00 November 2, 2009
Canadian Forces Personnel Appreciation Program $500.00 January 4, 2010
GM Owner Loyalty Bonus Program/Factory to Customer Rebate $1,000.00 August 31, 2009
Pontiac Loyalty Bonus Program/Factory to Customer Rebate $1,000.00 August 31, 2009

You got a very good deal, better than I could negotiate in the GTA. I have not bought yet as the dealers don't seem to want to reduce their markup much. After subtracting the $7,000 cash rebate and adding the $75 gas tax, admin fee, PST & GST the dealer made a very small profit on your car. What dealer did you buy from? Enjoy your Astra!

[cnsharc]

Hi all;

I'm thinking about buying the Saturn Astra XE. I'm very familiar with Opel brand from my home country in Europe. I have no question about the car's quality. However I'm very worried about the service & warranty coverage in the future, since Saturn Canada is shutting down very soon.

Does anyone know how the warranty & service is gonna work for Astra?
Since dealers are shutting down, who's gonna take care of them?

The other problem I heard is that, the Astra does not have any other sister (similar) model in GM's other brands, and this could be a problem too for getting parts etc.

Please, I need your advise and help.

Thanks in advance :)

there is rumor that GM is going to bring next generation Astra under buick named skylark. If it's true, then you don't have to worry about service and parts.

[Slippery_Pete]

Here is the CCC Report for your car.
2009 Saturn Astra 3dr HB XR
4-door Compact Passenger Car


Retail Price* Wholesale Price**
Base $21,720.00 $20,098.00
Freight $1,400.00 $1,400.00
Optional equipment selected
- FEDERAL AIR CONDITIONING EXCISE TAX (-EXTAX) $100.00 $100.00
- 1SG PREFERRED EQUIPMENT GROUP -inc: leather seating surfaces, vinyl door trim, heated front seats, 18" alloy wheels, P225/40R18 performance tires, pwr electro-hydraulic steering (1SG) $1,990.00 $1,784.00
- 1.8L DOHC SFI 16-VALVE VVT I4 ENGINE (STD) (2H0) $0.00 $0.00
- 5-SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION (STD) (MM3) $0.00 $0.00
- P225/40R18 SUMMER ONLY PERFORMANCE TIRES (REQ: 1SG Preferred Equipment Group) (QNA) $0.00 $0.00
- SALSA RED (63U) $0.00 $0.00
- ADVANCED AUDIO GROUP -inc: AM/FM stereo w/6-disc CD/MP3 changer, enhanced information display, (7) speaker premium audio system (PCU) $955.00 $856.00
Dealer Marketing Association $54.00
Totals including all items above $26,165.00 $24,292.00
*Retail Price - Also referred to as the M.S.R.P. or Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price or Retail Factory Price. The price the dealer wants you to pay.

** Wholesale Price - Also referred to as the Dealer Invoice Price, Dealer Factory Price or Dealer Cost. The price the dealer pays for the car, before adjusting for any applicable Factory Incentives. To start your negotiations, take this number, add a fair dealer markup/profit (3%-6% on most cars) and deduct any applicable factory incentive below.

Current Factory Incentive Programs.
Incentive Type Value Term Expiry
Cash Incentives
GM Cash for Clunkers Program/Factory to Customer Rebate $1,000.00 November 2, 2009
Canadian Forces Personnel Appreciation Program $500.00 January 4, 2010
GM Owner Loyalty Bonus Program/Factory to Customer Rebate $1,000.00 August 31, 2009
Pontiac Loyalty Bonus Program/Factory to Customer Rebate $1,000.00 August 31, 2009

You got a very good deal, better than I could negotiate in the GTA. I have not bought yet as the dealers don't seem to want to reduce their markup much. After subtracting the $7,000 cash rebate and adding the $75 gas tax, admin fee, PST & GST the dealer made a very small profit on your car. What dealer did you buy from? Enjoy your Astra!

I bought it from Pickering Saab/Saturn...it was the very last Astra they had on the lot..and the second last car they had. There was an extra 1500 off because it was on the lot...and possibly because it had 400 KM on it...a little high in my books, but its still a new car to me.

[kool1]

I bought it from Pickering Saab/Saturn...it was the very last Astra they had on the lot..and the second last car they had. There was an extra 1500 off because it was on the lot...and possibly because it had 400 KM on it...a little high in my books, but its still a new car to me.

400km is new.

Good deal for sure. I can't imagine there are many cars left anywhere but maybe some of the smaller centers.

[saturnsw2]

400km is new.

Good deal for sure. I can't imagine there are many cars left anywhere but maybe some of the smaller centers.

lots still left in the maritimes.
i was at dartmouth saturn on saturday for service to my astra.halifax still has astra's on the lot but i am not sure how many.
they had 2 in the showroom and about 20 on the lot.
the dealership was a ghost town with no one thru the doors in the 2 hours i was there.

they were still pushing the old deal from may.
base 5 door xe $12990 less $1000 loyalty or lease pull ahead.

told them about the ontario deals ,they said it will not be happening here.
jeff

[napoleon1769]

It boggles me but how can you guys justify 400km on a car is a new car? My last 3 cars that I purchased had 3, 7, and I think 9 kms on it. They were all Toyotas.

[Dandada]

For anyone still looking for an Astra. Saturn of Belleville has a nice selection of XE, XR 3 and 5 door all in both manual and auto and a pretty good choice of colors.

I just picked up a 3dr XR manual today. I walked in today, they took my 1997 Cadillac STS on trade and I drove my new Astra home to Ottawa 2 hours later.

BTW, they gave me a letter stating that the warranty will be honored at specific GM dealers and parts are guarantied to be available for 10 years.

I bought the extended warranty to 5 years / 100,000km for only $800.
Worth it as far as I am concerned.

[miserman]

For anyone still looking for an Astra. Saturn of Belleville has a nice selection of XE, XR 3 and 5 door all in both manual and auto and a pretty good choice of colors.

I just picked up a 3dr XR manual today. I walked in today, they took my 1997 Cadillac STS on trade and I drove my new Astra home to Ottawa 2 hours later.

BTW, they gave me a letter stating that the warranty will be honored at specific GM dealers and parts are guarantied to be available for 10 years.

I bought the extended warranty to 5 years / 100,000km for only $800.
Worth it as far as I am concerned.

Congratulations on your purchase. Was the car you bought red with VIN ending with 012488? If not what are the last 3 digits of the VIN and what options, if any, does it have? What was the final OTR price after trade with the extended warranty? What did they give you for the Caddy? Enjoy!

[scouzi]

Does anyone know if it comes with the GM money back guaranty as well?

[scouzi]

No wonder GM went belly-up.

Maybe it`s just me but in this day and age not offering any Bluetooth or moon-roof options on a car is plain stupid.

I guess I could live with these restrictions with a 7k discount but in normal times, this car is not competitive.

Edit: And no aux audio - come on!

Not saying it`s not a good deal - but merely stating how out of touch GM is. The Koreans know that these low cost additions sell cars.

[ottofly]

No wonder GM went belly-up.

Maybe it`s just me but in this day and age not offering any Bluetooth or moon-roof options on a car is plain stupid.

I guess I could live with these restrictions with a 7k discount but in normal times, this car is not competitive.

Edit: And no aux audio - come on!

Not saying it`s not a good deal - but merely stating how out of touch GM is. The Koreans know that these low cost additions sell cars.

I think you may be the one out of touch here bro. I seriously doubt GM went belly up because they didn't offer bluetooth and aux audio in their cars. LOL
I also doubt that not having bluetooth and moon roofs are deal breakers. Our parents had neither of these and they did just fine yet today they're deal breakers. I'll take you for a spin in my Vibe. You'll need to crank your window and lock your own door manually. And don't expect a sunroof or bluetooth, but it does have aux audio so you can listen to your Brittney Spears MP3's. :D lol

GM went belly up because of poor management and reputation. Cars sell on reputation alone. GM's reputation happens to still be poor and it will take a long time for that to turn around. The sheeple flock to buy Toyota's/Honda's boring cars blindly, despite some pretty major reliabilty issues recently, without blinking. Once a reputation is set, for the good or for the bad, it is VERY hard to knock down or turn around. A car like the Astra should sell by itself after one test drive. There's a model and type for almost everyone. I would have taken an Astra over a Vibe in a heartbeat but these deals we not available in the summer.

[scouzi]

I think you may be the one out of touch here bro. I seriously doubt GM went belly up because they didn't offer bluetooth and aux audio in their cars. LOL
I also doubt that not having bluetooth and moon roofs are deal breakers. Our parents had neither of these and they did just fine yet today they're deal breakers. I'll take you for a spin in my Vibe. You'll need to crank your window and lock your own door manually. And don't expect a sunroof or bluetooth, but it does have aux audio so you can listen to your Brittney Spears MP3's. :D lol

GM went belly up because of poor management and reputation. Cars sell on reputation alone. GM's reputation happens to still be poor and it will take a long time for that to turn around. The sheeple flock to buy Toyota's/Honda's boring cars blindly, despite some pretty major reliabilty issues recently, without blinking. Once a reputation is set, for the good or for the bad, it is VERY hard to knock down or turn around. A car like the Astra should sell by itself after one test drive. There's a model and type for almost everyone. I would have taken an Astra over a Vibe in a heartbeat but these deals we not available in the summer.

I couldn`t care less about Britney. Comparing what our parents had and what is available today is silly.

I never said GM went BK because of BT and aux audio but it shows they are out of touch. These little things ARE more important in the segment Astra is competing in which is entry level for the younger generation.

I use the aux Audio to hook up my Bluetooth GPS. For $250 I have a fully integrated system.

1) Integrated hands free calling
2) Play MP3s from an SD card on the GPS
3) Turn by turn voice navigation

All coming from the internal audio system. The GPS itself handles all the cutting off (ie turns down the music when a call comes in)

Not everyone wants these of course - but many do and not even offering the options is stupid.

I bet you your Vibe had these options if you wanted them.

Edit: I suppose that this car is more Euro so maybe large number of cup-holders, Aux audi and moon-roofs are not desired by the Europeans. I suspect that BT is however.

The moon-roof seems to be available of the 5 door but not on the 3 door.

[kool1]

It boggles me but how can you guys justify 400km on a car is a new car? My last 3 cars that I purchased had 3, 7, and I think 9 kms on it. They were all Toyotas.

You are right , typically a car does not have 400kms on it but some days I drive more the 400 km in one day, it's nothing in a car considering you likely have a life of 200,000kms +.

[kool1]

No wonder GM went belly-up.

Maybe it`s just me but in this day and age not offering any Bluetooth or moon-roof options on a car is plain stupid.

I guess I could live with these restrictions with a 7k discount but in normal times, this car is not competitive.

Edit: And no aux audio - come on!

Not saying it`s not a good deal - but merely stating how out of touch GM is. The Koreans know that these low cost additions sell cars.

GM went broke because it had mountains of debt, legacy costs and was too big for it's market share. Now that it's shed those things it should be just fine. New vehicles like the Equinox, Malibu etc. show just how competitive the company is. Bluetooth and moonroof options did not hurt this car's sales and the new models have those options. Bluetooth is standard in the Equinox I think.

[setell]

lots still left in the maritimes.
i was at dartmouth saturn on saturday for service to my astra.halifax still has astra's on the lot but i am not sure how many.
they had 2 in the showroom and about 20 on the lot.
the dealership was a ghost town with no one thru the doors in the 2 hours i was there.

they were still pushing the old deal from may.
base 5 door xe $12990 less $1000 loyalty or lease pull ahead.

told them about the ontario deals ,they said it will not be happening here.
jeff

Can you force them to give you the deal as the XR is 7k off too as advertised on the Saturn.ca site? I rather not have to buy a car in ON and drive it back home to my parents if they can get a good deal there.

[miserman]

Does anyone know if it comes with the GM money back guaranty as well?

No GM Money back guarantee on Saturns. All Saturn stores are closing at the end of December.

[saturnsw2]

Can you force them to give you the deal as the XR is 7k off too as advertised on the Saturn.ca site? I rather not have to buy a car in ON and drive it back home to my parents if they can get a good deal there.

hi
i would think if it's national,they would have to honor it.
that said,i would print off the ad and the info from saturn as ammo in the deal.

they did have a pretty good selection including a couple in the showroom.

there was just nobody around.it was eerie.

i would also try halifax saturn.
regards,jeff

[Slippery_Pete]

You are right , typically a car does not have 400kms on it but some days I drive more the 400 km in one day, it's nothing in a car considering you likely have a life of 200,000kms +.

Plus I got a further 1500 off because of this, so I'm quite fine with it.

[scouzi]

Plus I got a further 1500 off because of this, so I'm quite fine with it.

I would certainly take a $1500 discount for 400km!

I was looking at a new Hyundai Genesis Coupe with 2000 km on it. The dealer was only taking off $400 from the MSRP for the mileage.

I laughed and walked out.

[jhkeong]

Got a deal on the Astra XR 5-Door, Auto without Sport Package, but with heated seats, including mud flaps and lock nuts, for $16,350 All-in. I have the $1000 Loyalty Rebate and only 5% GST in Alberta. MSRP of this vehicle is above $24,200, I think.

Okay deal?

[shaolinmonk]

Got a deal on the Astra XR 5-Door, Auto without Sport Package, but with heated seats, including mud flaps and lock nuts, for $16,350 All-in. I have the $1000 Loyalty Rebate and only 5% GST in Alberta. MSRP of this vehicle is above $24,200, I think.

Okay deal?

i think it's good.. my pops scored a XR 5 door, new, black for $16,800 standard

[edifonzo]

i think it's good.. my pops scored a XR 5 door, new, black for $16,800 standard

Is anyone getting these deals in BC?

Also please confirm that these are "cash purchase" deals and will not be available with GMAC financing.

Thanks

[minghia]

Saturn south of the border is finished as well.

CNBC reporting that Penske walked away (http://www.cnbc.com/id/33108115), so Saturn is now history.

This latest news can't help overall Saturn parts availability.

[glacierice]

Yup, Saturn everywhere is toast. Penske backed out of the deal, they couldn't find anyway to supply the cars long term.

If I was buying a Saturn now, which I wouldn't, I'd make dang sure all the drivetrain and major components are shared with some other GM vehicles otherwise in a few years these parts will hard to come by and priced like gold if you find them.

[james_bond_007]

haha, if the price gets cheaper as they anticipate within the next 2 mths just get 2 - 1 for parts.:razz:

[ohnabatko]

:cheesygri Opel is a decent car for the only reason that is designed and primarily manufactured in Germany. So either branded as Vauxhall or Saturn is not a big biggy so this deal is good. But for the other ones like VUE and other pure GM crap ...well...

What is ironic in the whole situation for me is the following: you open marketing books like that of Kotler et al and you see great case studies on Saturn built it's brand and how emphasized the relations with clients, and other loosely related with reality claims.

Look at the current situation and the obvious hits you 1) however good marketing you have - if your product is crap, your business is busted 2) even if you are good, if your parent company is crook - you business is busted.

:razz:

[Korea69]

there goes Saturn, i wonder if they will honor the warrenty still?!

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Dispatch/market-dispatches.aspx?post=1299249&_blg=1,1299249

[kool1]

there goes Saturn, i wonder if they will honor the warrenty still?!

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Dispatch/market-dispatches.aspx?post=1299249&_blg=1,1299249

As in Canada... all covered by GM dealers.

[hingisfan]

I got a black XE 5 door manual with A/C and sunroof for $16,400 total, taxes in.

Drives great, options galore, a few weird Euro buttons and quirks but you get used to it quickly.

Sunroof is really cool on this car, and huge, although it is set back a bit from the front so you don't notice it all that much when driving....I would prefer if it were same size but moved 3-4 inches closer to the front windshield. Only other thing that I would change is adding a centre console/armrest...can get a high quality one from Boomerang for $169 USD though.

Overall though, very happy, getting tint done tomorrow and Heko windguards are coming in soon....should look really sharp!

I test drove both an auto and a manual, and the manual seemed to have more pep to it.

Saw some great reviews on TSN Motoring....actually I think it was their 2008 overall car of the year!

[deals_addict]

where did you get it from?
thanks

I got a black XE 5 door manual with A/C and sunroof for $16,400 total, taxes in.

Drives great, options galore, a few weird Euro buttons and quirks but you get used to it quickly.

Sunroof is really cool on this car, and huge, although it is set back a bit from the front so you don't notice it all that much when driving....I would prefer if it were same size but moved 3-4 inches closer to the front windshield. Only other thing that I would change is adding a centre console/armrest...can get a high quality one from Boomerang for $169 USD though.

Overall though, very happy, getting tint done tomorrow and Heko windguards are coming in soon....should look really sharp!

I test drove both an auto and a manual, and the manual seemed to have more pep to it.

Saw some great reviews on TSN Motoring....actually I think it was their 2008 overall car of the year!

[saturnsw2]

For anyone still looking for an Astra. Saturn of Belleville has a nice selection of XE, XR 3 and 5 door all in both manual and auto and a pretty good choice of colors.

I just picked up a 3dr XR manual today. I walked in today, they took my 1997 Cadillac STS on trade and I drove my new Astra home to Ottawa 2 hours later.

BTW, they gave me a letter stating that the warranty will be honored at specific GM dealers and parts are guarantied to be available for 10 years.

I bought the extended warranty to 5 years / 100,000km for only $800.
Worth it as far as I am concerned.

hi
can you confirm extended warranty for $800?
is it the gmpp(gm protection plan)spp(saturn protection plan)or a third party warranty.
mine was offered at $2200 and i declined.
would have taken the $800 one if gmpp or spp.
jeff

[Dandada]

hi
can you confirm extended warranty for $800?
is it the gmpp(gm protection plan)spp(saturn protection plan)or a third party warranty.
mine was offered at $2200 and i declined.
would have taken the $800 one if gmpp or spp.
jeff

It was the Saturn one. 0 deductable on parts and labor.
$2200? even on the spreadsheet he showed me it at regularly about $1600 for 5/60 warranty.

[maniacshopper]

hmmm, with Penske out, maybe GM is willing to sell the remainder of the rights to Magna consortium. That way parts will be available to current auto owners?

[hingisfan]

where did you get it from?
thanks

Montreal....they were about $700 cheaper than Belleville. (I am in Kingston) Also, I only wanted either blue or black. Would have loved the blue, I think it looks the best, but none to be found with the sunroof when I was looking.

[setell]

Montreal....they were about $700 cheaper than Belleville. (I am in Kingston) Also, I only wanted either blue or black. Would have loved the blue, I think it looks the best, but none to be found with the sunroof when I was looking.

Where in Montreal? I'm on the hunt for a automatic either XE or XR but at the advertised price plus extra for the automatic. I'm going to give Belleville a call today for a price quote.

[hingisfan]

Where in Montreal? I'm on the hunt for a automatic either XE or XR but at the advertised price plus extra for the automatic. I'm going to give Belleville a call today for a price quote.

Mondial Saturn

[jmac35]

I just came from a test drive of a 3dr Astra XR at a Toronto dealership. The cash price the salesguy was sticking to was $19,975 OTR. I told him that price was the only thing swaying me this car and that it would have to be around $17,000 to make me buy it.

He wouldn't budge. He said they brought the cars from out West blah, blah, blah, it's a great price, blah, blah blah,

[scouzi]

Where in Montreal? I'm on the hunt for a automatic either XE or XR but at the advertised price plus extra for the automatic. I'm going to give Belleville a call today for a price quote.

Saturn Laval had about 5-6 Astras left on Tuesday evening. Mots of them demos I believe.

Silver Sand, Red and White XBRs.

[hingisfan]

Just got my black 5 door back from tinting....looks real sharp...went with the 17% for all windows.

Heko window defelctors should be coming soon to finish the look!

[whampoa]

hmmm, with Penske out, maybe GM is willing to sell the remainder of the rights to Magna consortium. That way parts will be available to current auto owners?

I believe Magna already or in the process of owning Opel, maker of Astra.

But that mean nothing if they don't supply or means to sell it here.

[fbrm]

FYI, in the USA there was no 2009 model for that year, as 2008 models were plenty in stock. Any 2008 coming up to Canada from USA, or is it worth buying in the USA and importing into Canada?

[setell]

WOW called all the Montreal and Toronto dealers in the ad and none were offering a good deal. Most were just giving 6k off the MSRP that was on the website! A XE automatic for 17k before tax!!!!!! Even the Belleville guy was playing hard ball. Am I too nice? I thought there wasn't much price haggling with Saturn? :confused:

[scouzi]

WOW called all the Montreal and Toronto dealers in the ad and none were offering a good deal. Most were just giving 6k off the MSRP that was on the website! A XE automatic for 17k before tax!!!!!! Even the Belleville guy was playing hard ball. Am I too nice? I thought there wasn't much price haggling with Saturn? :confused:

Saturn Laval was reducing by 7K (8k if GM owner) without any haggling.

[setell]

Saturn Laval was reducing by 7K (8k if GM owner) without any haggling.

I'm not a GM owner and the saturn.ca website has changed the deal that this 7k is a cash allowance rebate. It does not mention that it includes the GM owner rebate. Plus Laval was out of stock too. Ones that had stock weren't very keen in lowering their prices.

[scouzi]

I'm not a GM owner and the saturn.ca website has changed the deal that this 7k is a cash allowance rebate. It does not mention that it includes the GM owner rebate. Plus Laval was out of stock too. Ones that had stock weren't very keen in lowering their prices.

Still shows a 7k cash rebate:

http://www.gm.ca/gm/english/corporate/offers/price-adjustment/overview?adv=RDCBYO

EDIT: Sorry - didn`t realize you were looking for an automatic

[kool1]

WOW called all the Montreal and Toronto dealers in the ad and none were offering a good deal. Most were just giving 6k off the MSRP that was on the website! A XE automatic for 17k before tax!!!!!! Even the Belleville guy was playing hard ball. Am I too nice? I thought there wasn't much price haggling with Saturn? :confused:

Well.. now that the brand is discontinued and it's a liqudation, anything goes I would guess. I think the $10,995 deal was only suppose to be for 3 days so perhaps the deal is not quite as good anymore?

[setell]

Well.. now that the brand is discontinued and it's a liqudation, anything goes I would guess. I think the $10,995 deal was only suppose to be for 3 days so perhaps the deal is not quite as good anymore?

Yeah...but I don't expect to pay that much more for a XE though. Here is what I was prepared to pay:

$10,995
$1,400 destination
$1,400 automatic
$500 odd fees
$14,295 total but go up to $14,500 before taxes. I refuse to pay more then $16,500 OTR as the rebate from GM has went up from 6k to 7k for non-GM clients.

I don’t know why they are quoting me as 6k off too as the Saturn deal has gone from 7k WITH GM loyalty discount to just a 7k cash rebate allowance like their website has indicated. They are asking MSRP – 6k which is ~17k but according to the site it’s MSRP – 7k minimum!

[jmac35]

Like I posted yesterday, I couldn't get them any lower than $19,7XX on XR 3dr.

I was ready to pay $16,000-$16,750.

[2heaven]

My quotes:

5dr XR Auto
Car - 14500
Freight - 1400
Odd Charges - 500
Tax - 2132 (13%)

Total - 18532 I can see how with loyalty + Alberta tax this could be had for $16200.

3dr XR Auto
Car - 16000
Freigh - 1400
Odd Charges - 500
Tax - 2327 (13%)

Total - 20227

I'm going to try and haggle the 5dr XR Auto price a bit and then get my student discount on top of that.

[wwwddd]

just bought a 5dr xr automatic with AC for a total of 15700, including 1000 for my 93 vehicle.

[wwwddd]

My quotes:

5dr XR Auto
Car - 14500
Freight - 1400
Odd Charges - 500
Tax - 2132 (13%)

Total - 18532 I can see how with loyalty + Alberta tax this could be had for $16200.

3dr XR Auto
Car - 16000
Freigh - 1400
Odd Charges - 500
Tax - 2327 (13%)

Total - 20227

I'm going to try and haggle the 5dr XR Auto price a bit and then get my student discount on top of that.

I was able to got $800 for new grad award at one dealer but other dealer can only offer two payments for free.

[goodzyk]

just bought a 5dr xr automatic with AC for a total of 15700, including 1000 for my 93 vehicle.

so you're saying 15,700 including taxes and fees ? any heated seats or stabiltrak ?

[2heaven]

I was able to got $800 for new grad award at one dealer but other dealer can only offer two payments for free.

Two payments correctly set to around $400 each = $800 :cheesygri

so you're saying 15,700 including taxes and fees ? any heated seats or stabiltrak ?

Damn Alberta tax - Ontario ppl have to consider paying at least $1000-$1500 more for PST. ($15000*8%= $1200). Such a great deal for you calgary folk!

[wwwddd]

so you're saying 15,700 including taxes and fees ? any heated seats or stabiltrak ?

No heated seats or stabiltrak. That is probably 1000 more.

[goodzyk]

No heated seats or stabiltrak. That is probably 1000 more.

thanks - so the price also includes the $800 grad, or factored in 2 loan payments ?

[wwwddd]

thanks - so the price also includes the $800 grad, or factored in 2 loan payments ?

no, that is not included. They also told me I could get another $300 from gov's 'retire your ride' program (for vehicle older than 95), I am trying to see how to do it.

[Firestarter]

I just came from a test drive of a 3dr Astra XR at a Toronto dealership. The cash price the salesguy was sticking to was $19,975 OTR. I told him that price was the only thing swaying me this car and that it would have to be around $17,000 to make me buy it.

He wouldn't budge. He said they brought the cars from out West blah, blah, blah, it's a great price, blah, blah blah,

Which dealership?

[PsioniC]

Which dealership?

Sounds like queensway saturn saab hummer, I had the exact same experience there. Test drove a XR3, but they wanted a little more than I was willing to pay. Also they tacked on another 500 dollars to the price because they shipped the car from out west. Smelled of BS to me so I walked away.

[DealRacer]

Just closed a deal on a XR 5 door with leather, heated seats in my colour choice. One of the last one's left in Eastern Canada that met my criteria as I searched on GM.ca and called many dealers over the last couple of days. Deal at $7000 off + 1,000 loyalty + 800 grad + a dealer reduction (took a couple days to get them to move) + a few hundred gm visa points that were running out anyway.
Moral of the story is if you are particular about the car you want(colour + options) you better act quickly as selection is dwindling. Secondly, you won't know what you can do until you are prepared to show you are a serious buyer. By the way all done on the phone and email.

[jmac35]

Which dealership?

Yep, Queensway

[Teo14]

Just closed a deal on a XR 5 door with leather, heated seats in my colour choice. One of the last one's left in Eastern Canada that met my criteria as I searched on GM.ca and called many dealers over the last couple of days. Deal at $7000 off + 1,000 loyalty + 800 grad + a dealer reduction (took a couple days to get them to move) + a few hundred gm visa points that were running out anyway.
Moral of the story is if you are particular about the car you want(colour + options) you better act quickly as selection is dwindling. Secondly, you won't know what you can do until you are prepared to show you are a serious buyer. By the way all done on the phone and email.

You got the $800 grad rebate ontop of the $7000 cash incentive? After I test drove the Astra I was told I would only be able to get the grad rebate if it were financed through GMAC and that this would remove the $7000 cash incentive. Could you post what your OTR price was for you Astra?

[setell]

You got the $800 grad rebate AND $7000 cash price!!!! I can't even get them to give me the $7000 as they all quoted me $6000!!!! Going to haggle more with them!

[prod]

Yep, Queensway

Yes they had a few XR 3 doors, mostly white, I bet they will have them for a while with that attitude. Only one XR 5door when I was there, silver, nice car but they dont want to deal.

[deal_lover_edm]

It was the Saturn one. 0 deductable on parts and labor.
$2200? even on the spreadsheet he showed me it at regularly about $1600 for 5/60 warranty.

Anyone else get this deal on the warranty? And if so, how? I would be interested in tinting, warranty and some undercoating/paint protector/rock guard, but am certainly not going to pay list price as that would run me about $4500...

Let me know if you have any tips so I don't get hosed. These products have a high margin, so I should be able to bargain....?

[DealRacer]

You got the $800 grad rebate AND $7000 cash price!!!! I can't even get them to give me the $7000 as they all quoted me $6000!!!! Going to haggle more with them!

Just picked it up yesterday. You get the $7000 cash if you pay cash or do non GMAC financing. TD is about the best right now at around 4.39%. If you can buy the car outright but still want the $800 then finance the minimum amount they will let you for a term that gives you payments of approximately $400/month. The loan is totally open so pay it out in a couple months once the $800 is in your pocket.
As far as haggling goes find the car you want, make sure you know the MSRP with all options, dealer charges etc. and do your own math. Then make an offer knowing all the official deals and how much more you want the dealer to cut. Also know that only the $7000 is before tax. Loyalty, GM card and grad are after tax.

[DealRacer]

You got the $800 grad rebate ontop of the $7000 cash incentive? After I test drove the Astra I was told I would only be able to get the grad rebate if it were financed through GMAC and that this would remove the $7000 cash incentive. Could you post what your OTR price was for you Astra?

See post above. Just finance outside of GMAC. TD Bank is what they offered me. My OTR price is a little confusing as I also had a trade of $8000 which saved me another $1000 in tax. Otherwise my OTR price is exactly as originally stated. MSRP+admin($375)-7000-dealer discount+tax-1000loyalty-GM Points-800Grad. That's pretty much it.

[2heaven]

I was able to get the 3dr XR at MSRP - 7000 (cash rebate) + freight (1400) + fees (475) + GST + PST.

I did a cash purchase, but the dealer is giving me a cheque for $800 if I can prove that I am financing some of the amount through my own means (and of course bring in proof that I'm a recent grad).

[tienm23]

Just picked it up yesterday. You get the $7000 cash if you pay cash or do non GMAC financing. TD is about the best right now at around 4.39%. If you can buy the car outright but still want the $800 then finance the minimum amount they will let you for a term that gives you payments of approximately $400/month. The loan is totally open so pay it out in a couple months once the $800 is in your pocket.
As far as haggling goes find the car you want, make sure you know the MSRP with all options, dealer charges etc. and do your own math. Then make an offer knowing all the official deals and how much more you want the dealer to cut. Also know that only the $7000 is before tax. Loyalty, GM card and grad are after tax.


That's funny because I got just picked up the XE and I had no problems using GMAC financing and getting the grad rebate. I had them cut the admin fee as well, my OTR price was about $13,600.

[dealcatcher]

That's funny because I got just picked up the XE and I had no problems using GMAC financing and getting the grad rebate. I had them cut the admin fee as well, my OTR price was about $13,600.

do you mean this car? Saturn Astra XE?

[tienm23]

do you mean this car? Saturn Astra XE?

Sorry, I should have been clearer. Yes, the 5 door ASTRA XE.

[DealRacer]

That's funny because I got just picked up the XE and I had no problems using GMAC financing and getting the grad rebate. I had them cut the admin fee as well, my OTR price was about $13,600.
I believe the grad rebate criteria is you must show some proof of financiing and show $400 a month payment to get the 2x$400. What I meant is the cash rebates ($7000) is usually connected to the fact you are not eligible for 0% GMAC. If you go regular GMAC or any bank then you get the $7000. It is just that usually banks beat regular GMAC rates.

[deal_lover_edm]

Anyone else get this deal on the warranty? And if so, how? I would be interested in tinting, warranty and some undercoating/paint protector/rock guard, but am certainly not going to pay list price as that would run me about $4500...

Let me know if you have any tips so I don't get hosed. These products have a high margin, so I should be able to bargain....?

Anyone have any comments on this? I'd appreciate hearing what you have to say. I imagine parts for these will be quite expensive, so am thinking of the warranty.

Also, was referred to Zeibart for the coatings. Anyone have any comments there? What should I pay for undercoat, rock guard, rush and paint protector?

[DealRacer]

Anyone have any comments on this? I'd appreciate hearing what you have to say. I imagine parts for these will be quite expensive, so am thinking of the warranty.

Also, was referred to Zeibart for the coatings. Anyone have any comments there? What should I pay for undercoat, rock guard, rush and paint protector?
I was told by my dealer they can offer very good pricing on the extended warranty compared to buying it through other GM dealers. Didn't investigate much further as I don't believe in any and all of the above you are considering.

[deal_lover_edm]

I was told by my dealer they can offer very good pricing on the extended warranty compared to buying it through other GM dealers. Didn't investigate much further as I don't believe in any and all of the above you are considering.

Can I ask why you don't believe in it? My rationale with the warranty is that parts for this thing may be pricey in the future being as the model is being discontinued. The undercoating was more or less to reduce noise and we spit alot of rocks in Alberta, so if I could reduce chips by spending a couple hundred dollars on the rock shield, I would consider it....

Interested in anything you know Deal_Racer. Thanks

[kool1]

I was able to get the 3dr XR at MSRP - 7000 (cash rebate) + freight (1400) + fees (475) + GST + PST.

I did a cash purchase, but the dealer is giving me a cheque for $800 if I can prove that I am financing some of the amount through my own means (and of course bring in proof that I'm a recent grad).

I wonder why they want proof of financing elsewhere??

[DealRacer]

Can I ask why you don't believe in it? My rationale with the warranty is that parts for this thing may be pricey in the future being as the model is being discontinued. The undercoating was more or less to reduce noise and we spit alot of rocks in Alberta, so if I could reduce chips by spending a couple hundred dollars on the rock shield, I would consider it....

Interested in anything you know Deal_Racer. Thanks

Just a philosophy from my perspective. May also depend on your financial situation. Essentially I believe in self insurance. If I buy extended warranties on everything I purchase like cars, appliances, electronics etc. I would be out a whole ton of dough. All these warranties are designed to make someone money. Which means in the long run it is costing me money. I play the odds with everything, save the money up front and when 1 in 10 things I purchase break. I fix it at my cost. I believe in the end I am still way ahead.
As for all the other after purchase stuff a dealer will sell you. Will anyone else will give you one penny more for your car 3, 5 or 10 years from now? so unless it can provide you a tangible benefit now then it's money down the drain.
So if the Rock Shield really works then go for it. You feel you're getting some value from it.

Having said all this, I am already starting to test the waters on parts availability and prices for the astra. Went to a partsource store the other day and it wasn't even in their computer for an oil filter. I have been told GM is commited to 10 years availability. From another perspective I have a 15 year old ZR-1 with a unique motor that GM gave up on many years ago for parts. However, with the internet today where there is a will there is a way to find what you need. Sometimes a little pricey but not worth loosing sleep over it.

[2heaven]

Anyone have any comments on this? I'd appreciate hearing what you have to say. I imagine parts for these will be quite expensive, so am thinking of the warranty.

Also, was referred to Zeibart for the coatings. Anyone have any comments there? What should I pay for undercoat, rock guard, rush and paint protector?

I was told they were offering $450 on all extended warranties. Apparantly, that was the deal they were giving people back in late september during the sales. Standard warranty is 3 years/60k km, these were the prices after the discount:

1 extra year/20k extra km = $900
2 extra year/40k extra km = $1100
3 extra year/60k extra km = $1600

Not sure if it's worth it for the 1 year, but the 2 year I'm thinking about. What are the chances I'm going to need to make over $1100 in repairs during year 4 and 5... hmmm...

[MafiaHitman]

No heated seats or stabiltrak. That is probably 1000 more.

When I bought mine over a year ago, Stability was $900 or something and seats were $450.

[ianou]

I was told they were offering $450 on all extended warranties. Apparantly, that was the deal they were giving people back in late september during the sales. Standard warranty is 3 years/60k km, these were the prices after the discount:

1 extra year/20k extra km = $900
2 extra year/40k extra km = $1100
3 extra year/60k extra km = $1600

Not sure if it's worth it for the 1 year, but the 2 year I'm thinking about. What are the chances I'm going to need to make over $1100 in repairs during year 4 and 5... hmmm...

I was told that you have to do maintenance in the dealership in order to keep the extended warranty you bought valid. Is that true?

[deal_lover_edm]

I was told that you have to do maintenance in the dealership in order to keep the extended warranty you bought valid. Is that true?

I ended up getting an 84/month 80,000km warranty through Hyatt Saturn in Calgary for $1599. So far better treatment than the dealer in Edmonton.

[deal_lover_edm]

Just a philosophy from my perspective. May also depend on your financial situation. Essentially I believe in self insurance. If I buy extended warranties on everything I purchase like cars, appliances, electronics etc. I would be out a whole ton of dough. All these warranties are designed to make someone money. Which means in the long run it is costing me money. I play the odds with everything, save the money up front and when 1 in 10 things I purchase break. I fix it at my cost. I believe in the end I am still way ahead.
As for all the other after purchase stuff a dealer will sell you. Will anyone else will give you one penny more for your car 3, 5 or 10 years from now? so unless it can provide you a tangible benefit now then it's money down the drain.
So if the Rock Shield really works then go for it. You feel you're getting some value from it.

Having said all this, I am already starting to test the waters on parts availability and prices for the astra. Went to a partsource store the other day and it wasn't even in their computer for an oil filter. I have been told GM is commited to 10 years availability. From another perspective I have a 15 year old ZR-1 with a unique motor that GM gave up on many years ago for parts. However, with the internet today where there is a will there is a way to find what you need. Sometimes a little pricey but not worth loosing sleep over it.

Thanks man, all good information. Appreciate the feedback.

[TheGrimm]

Anyone been out looking for an Astra XR in the Calgary area, are there any left? I have an old car that's a candidate for the recycle your ride program, and am wondering if anyone has added this program to their purchase? Assuming there are a few left around :|

[deal_lover_edm]

Anyone been out looking for an Astra XR in the Calgary area, are there any left? I have an old car that's a candidate for the recycle your ride program, and am wondering if anyone has added this program to their purchase? Assuming there are a few left around :|

I bought through Hyatt Saturn in Calgary. They are shipping me a car from Regina, should be in middle of next week. I am getting the $1000 trade in, which I have already gave to a recycler in Edmonton, where I live. Incidentally I also opted to get the 12 City of Edmonton transit passes rather than the extra $300 cash, so total value of the old clunker is about $1900 (I still take the bus to work).

[TheGrimm]

OK, went yesterday to test one out, wasn't blown away, but it's a decent upgrade from my old golf. The sunroof is quite nice as it extends from the front to back seats.

Here's the breakdown of my quote:
Astra XR 5 DR - 5 speed manual, AC, Heated Leather, Sunroof, NO Sport Package, no Sound Package.

MSRP = 25160.00
Credits = -7000.00
Cash for Clunkers = -1000.00
Other Fees - 199.00
Admin Fees - 288.00
Tire Tax - 20.00
P.P.S.A - 31.62

All in = 18631.97 CAD

Seems like I am not getting a quote in-line with some of the others I've seen. He offered to throw in rear window tinting, but nonetheless I am still kind of holding out. I am not in love with the car, and a part of me thinks it'd be better to buy a 1-2 year old Golf/Imprezza etc.

Anyone think I can push for more here? I think I'd buy if I could get it into the mid-low 17's but I can't give up that sunroof after I saw it :D

[kool1]

OK, went yesterday to test one out, wasn't blown away, but it's a decent upgrade from my old golf. The sunroof is quite nice as it extends from the front to back seats.

Here's the breakdown of my quote:
Astra XR 5 DR - 5 speed manual, AC, Heated Leather, Sunroof, NO Sport Package, no Sound Package.

MSRP = 25160.00
Credits = -7000.00
Cash for Clunkers = -1000.00
Other Fees - 199.00
Admin Fees - 288.00
Tire Tax - 20.00
P.P.S.A - 31.62

All in = 18631.97 CAD

Seems like I am not getting a quote in-line with some of the others I've seen. He offered to throw in rear window tinting, but nonetheless I am still kind of holding out. I am not in love with the car, and a part of me thinks it'd be better to buy a 1-2 year old Golf/Imprezza etc.

Anyone think I can push for more here? I think I'd buy if I could get it into the mid-low 17's but I can't give up that sunroof after I saw it :D

I dunno.. sounds pretty decent to me. The XR coupes look amazing, much better than a dull Golf.

[2heaven]

Just wanted to bump this up - I recently found out that as of Nov. 3rd the cash incentive GM is offering for the Astras have been increased to $8000 (there is no loyalty rebate, everyone gets the extra $1000).

Not sure how many more of the cars are out there and available, but if you were considering, hope this helps.

My bill of sale was Oct. 30th... sucks for us who jumped on it before the increase. :|

[busakap]

anybody buying outlooks?

[napoleon1769]

Just wanted to bump this up - I recently found out that as of Nov. 3rd the cash incentive GM is offering for the Astras have been increased to $8000 (there is no loyalty rebate, everyone gets the extra $1000).

Not sure how many more of the cars are out there and available, but if you were considering, hope this helps.

My bill of sale was Oct. 30th... sucks for us who jumped on it before the increase. :|

That happened a while ago. The dealership I went to refused to waived the same fees that it waived before so it ended up being ptetty much the same price.