City councillor proposes lowering of speed limits by 10km/h in Toronto

[ericgu22]

I think its unnecessary to reduce the speed by 10km!!!

http://www.680news.com/news/headlines/more.jsp?content=20090910_080206_10456

[DuDe1411]

and do what? maybe they should change the road to left hand traffic

[Traian2003]

This is sooo stupid. Speeds should increase on the HWYs like they did in some of the Western provinces.

Old guy can't drive, comes up with this idea? wtf?

No research, no facts. All he says is "maybe" this and "maybe" that..

[Sepiraph]

Parkdale-High Park Councillor Bill Saundercook said that because so many drivers habitually drive 10 kilometres an hour above the speed limit, he wants to lower all speed limits to keep drivers in-line

Lol this Bill guy is a real genius, people habitually drives 10km/h above speed limit is because that's the speed that they feel comfortable at driving. If you post a speed limit of 200km/h, people will NOT be driving 10km/h above it.

Basically the law should follow what a majority of people believe is the right thing to do, after all the law is made by people AND being a democratic (or is it socialistic here) country in Canada, the law should follow the will of the people, not the other way around.

[cooolway]

I usually (more than often) drive 10km above the speed limit. I think that they set the speed limit too low just to fine people.

[KorruptioN]

Terrible idea.

[Cheap Cat]

Lol this Bill guy is a real genius, people habitually drives 10km/h above speed limit is because that's the speed that they feel comfortable at driving. If you post a speed limit of 200km/h, people will NOT be driving 10km/h above it.

Basically the law should follow what a majority of people believe is the right thing to do, after all the law is made by people AND being a democratic (or is it socialistic here) country in Canada, the law should follow the will of the people, not the other way around.

Actually the law is made by the elected officials and not the people. This is how our democracy works. This is one idiot Liberal (he is not a socialist so don't blame them). He still has to get the majority of council to agree and this is no where near passing into law. It is just the media making a big deal out of a dumb idea.

Lower all speed limits and ban right turns on red and see how well traffic moves in this city. And he is supposed to be an environmentalist. :rolleyes:

[Majinvegeta]

Speed isn't the reason why accidents happen. It all depends on how knowledgeable the person is about road signs + how attentive he/she is.

If they are scanning their area and take the right steps to switch lanes etc. then accidents would not occur as much.

Millions of people die yearly due to alcohol, no one does anything about that. But everyone is anal about speed limits and now they want to decrease it by 10?

great idea, hey how about we set the speed limit at 30km/h on highways. I guarantee people will still get into accidents. And it will be because their on their cell phone or staring at some half naked chick or thinking about something else while driving.

I drive above the speed limit too because I think the speed limits are stupid. All these people are doing is decreasing the speed at which the accident is happening. Which isn't the problem, the problem is people not giving full attention to the road while driving. Or its people who drink and drive. I'd like to see how many drink n drive incidents happen if we ban a non-necessity drink called Beer.

[tyfriend]

old people are getting senile

[fastlayne]

Here is an equally asinine idea. Ban all left and right turns.

How many pedestrians have been struck and killed in cross walks in the last year due to turning cars or trucks? Stop the turns and save lives! Isn't that how the logic and statistics are used by the officials?

Of course, the eventual goal, at least by the City of Toronto, is to ban all vehicles.

The problem is that drivers and pedestrians are not paying attention.

If you step off a curb and a truck rolls over your head, you are dead. The truck could have been doing 30 or barely 1 km/hr and the outcome will be exactly the same.

[gamer123]

hey why not change all speed limits to 10km/h?

[CdTriX]

does he own a car?

freaking davenport is a 40 zone but i drive 50 in it.. i dislike driving 10 over in areas with 50km/h speed limits, but anythign less than 50 is way to slow for the movement of traffic in toronto...

[inteliii]

Why stop there.
Speed limit should be 20 kmh and that way no serious damage or injuries to anyone.

[masterballer]

What a moron...how do these guys get elected?

[fastlayne]

Why stop there.
Speed limit should be 20 kmh and that way no serious damage or injuries to anyone.

Why stop there, indeed.

Even the damage and injuries can be eliminated. At 20 km/h, collision avoidance radar and automatic deployment of the vehicle's brakes would be very effective.

[bembol]

Why not put some airbags or mattress on the front & rear bumpers.

[antman59]

I hope this idiot councillor does not get reelected.

[cortez]

hey why not change all speed limits to 10km/h?

If that happened I would just walk everywhere.

[Piro21]

I think it would be a good idea just to slow it down a little because maybe it will slow down road rage too at the same time

Yes, adding more time to people's commutes for no good reason is going to decrease their road rage.

[ES_Revenge]

The moron councilor that suggested this needs a serious, and I mean serious beating. Now I'm not one to condone violence, but honestly anyone this stupid should be beaten until their skull cracks open to reveal they truly have no brain at all, lol.

[Sepiraph]

Actually the law is made by the elected officials and not the people. This is how our democracy works. This is one idiot Liberal (he is not a socialist so don't blame them). He still has to get the majority of council to agree and this is no where near passing into law. It is just the media making a big deal out of a dumb idea.

Lower all speed limits and ban right turns on red and see how well traffic moves in this city. And he is supposed to be an environmentalist. :rolleyes:

Actually I know how the laws are made (goes through the House of Commons, then a similar process in the Senate ... etc ... that's LAW 101 back in HS) but I'm just saying how the general process should work since the House of commons are made up of elected officials, who are supposed to represent the people who voted for them.

At least in theory anyway.

[actng]

someone needs to smack this idiot Bill Saundercook.
i can't see why this guy isn't pointed and laughed at by people for saying something as dumb as "because people habitually speed by 10km/h, we should lower the speed limit by 10km/h"

how about having:
1) reasonable speed limits
2) and enforcing them strictly

?????????????????????


IDIOT!!!!!!!

[KorruptioN]

does he own a car?

I hope this idiot councillor does not get reelected.

Bill Saundercook is the "pedestrian committee co-chairman". Says a lot about his lifestyle...

http://www.toronto.ca/tpc/index.htm

There needs to be a lot of public outcry over this. What a terrible idea.

[Nukey]

Interesting. I was just thinking the exact opposite about Ontario speed limits. Major highways --> +20km/h, Open multi-lane roads currently @ 60km/h --> +10km/h, Large open roads currently @ 60km/h with multiple planes and few traffic lights --> +20km/h, Residential areas --> No change, Downtown London (at least) --> No change.

[TenzoR]

someone needs to smack this idiot Bill Saundercook.
i can't see why this guy isn't pointed and laughed at by people for saying something as dumb as "because people habitually speed by 10km/h, we should lower the speed limit by 10km/h"

how about having:
1) reasonable speed limits
2) and enforcing them strictly

?????????????????????


IDIOT!!!!!!!

Enforcing them strictly = people complaining about the police doing it as a cash grab and they'll just waste the court's time by fighting it.

[Tomy]

Lol this Bill guy is a real genius, people habitually drives 10km/h above speed limit is because that's the speed that they feel comfortable at driving. If you post a speed limit of 200km/h, people will NOT be driving 10km/h above it.

Basically the law should follow what a majority of people believe is the right thing to do, after all the law is made by people AND being a democratic (or is it socialistic here) country in Canada, the law should follow the will of the people, not the other way around.

+1

i guess this is another cash grab for the city.
instead of 10 over, now ur gonna be charged 20 over with a higher fine.. haha

[Kellster]

This is nothing more than political grandstanding. This little suck up of a councillor is jumping on the "Stunt Driving" band wagon...the band wagon that crashed long ago. He should get his head out of Fantino's ass and do the honorable thing and resign. Once again, it's all and only about the money.

[Matrixvibe]

what a moron...how do these guys get elected?

+1

[actng]

Enforcing them strictly = people complaining about the police doing it as a cash grab and they'll just waste the court's time by fighting it.

you missed 1) which was reasonable speed limits.

if the speed limits were raised 20km/h everywhere (except school zones) and 30km/h on the hwys, do you really think there will still be a LOT of speeders? i highly doubt it. in fact, studies have shown in cities/countries where the speed limit was raised, the overall speed of traffic flow remained the same as before the speed limit was raised.

people don't drove 20 over in the city because they want to DO 20 over wahtever the speed limit is. they're doing 20 over because they feel safe and comfortable doing 20 over.

so if you raise the speed limit say on the 401 to 130km/h, the overall flow of traffic isn't suddenly going to increase to 150km/h. it will still be in the 120-130 range.

[Jon Lai]

you missed 1) which was reasonable speed limits.

if the speed limits were raised 20km/h everywhere (except school zones) and 30km/h on the hwys, do you really think there will still be a LOT of speeders? i highly doubt it. in fact, studies have shown in cities/countries where the speed limit was raised, the overall speed of traffic flow remained the same as before the speed limit was raised.

people don't drove 20 over in the city because they want to DO 20 over wahtever the speed limit is. they're doing 20 over because they feel safe and comfortable doing 20 over.

so if you raise the speed limit say on the 401 to 130km/h, the overall flow of traffic isn't suddenly going to increase to 150km/h. it will still be in the 120-130 range.

Agree 100%, except with our loose licensing tests half the people on the road aren't good at making correct judgments.

[TenzoR]

you missed 1) which was reasonable speed limits.

if the speed limits were raised 20km/h everywhere (except school zones) and 30km/h on the hwys, do you really think there will still be a LOT of speeders? i highly doubt it. in fact, studies have shown in cities/countries where the speed limit was raised, the overall speed of traffic flow remained the same as before the speed limit was raised.

people don't drove 20 over in the city because they want to DO 20 over wahtever the speed limit is. they're doing 20 over because they feel safe and comfortable doing 20 over.

so if you raise the speed limit say on the 401 to 130km/h, the overall flow of traffic isn't suddenly going to increase to 150km/h. it will still be in the 120-130 range.

What may be reasonable for you may not be reasonable for other. Sure we can raise to 80km/h. But that just means for people who wants to pass people going 80km/h they will be going at 100km/h.

It's a never ending and to be honest no matter what speed limit they set, it'll never satisfy people.

[PsioniC]

What may be reasonable for you may not be reasonable for other. Sure we can raise to 80km/h. But that just means for people who wants to pass people going 80km/h they will be going at 100km/h.

It's a never ending and to be honest no matter what speed limit they set, it'll never satisfy people.

So should we all live our lives based on the lowest common denominator of society?

30KM/h is too fast for some people, hell I'm sure there's atleast one moron out there who can't handle 10KM/h. That doesn't mean we should accommodate them on our roadways. If you can't handle the speed and way the majority of society drives then you shouldnt be driving, because you will be slowing everyone else down.

If everyone drives 120KM/h on the 401 and you can't handle that, you don't get to drive on the 401.

Of course you can never satisfy everyone, that's why you seek to satisfy the majority. And guess what, the MAJORITY of people speed.

[Kellster]

Accidents happen while you are driving. If you reduce the time that you are driving by increasing your speed, you should lower your chances of being in an accident. Problem solved.

[actng]

What may be reasonable for you may not be reasonable for other. Sure we can raise to 80km/h. But that just means for people who wants to pass people going 80km/h they will be going at 100km/h.

It's a never ending and to be honest no matter what speed limit they set, it'll never satisfy people.

first off, this has nothing to do with what's reasonable to me.

secondly, if you want to discuss what's reasonable to me, i think people with cars that can stop in HALF the distance of other cars, should be allowed to drive TWICE as fast as the other cars.

for example, it takes an aston martin db9 half the distance to come to a complete stop than it does a regular car. therefore, the aston martin should be allowed to drive at TWICE the speed! :D

[LegiT]

So should we all live our lives based on the lowest common denominator of society?

30KM/h is too fast for some people, hell I'm sure there's atleast one moron out there who can't handle 10KM/h. That doesn't mean we should accommodate them on our roadways. If you can't handle the speed and way the majority of society drives then you shouldnt be driving, because you will be slowing everyone else down.

If everyone drives 120KM/h on the 401 and you can't handle that, you don't get to drive on the 401.

Of course you can never satisfy everyone, that's why you seek to satisfy the majority. And guess what, the MAJORITY of people speed.

+1.

We need a revamp of the licensing system. It's too easy to pass and there should be a limit of 3-5 attempts maximum. After exhausting all attempts and you still fail, then gtfo. Quite ridiculous to hear stories of people attempting the tests well over 5 times to finally pass and I doubt they're passing with flying colours. Some people shouldn't be driving if they're so incapable as those capable are affected by them. Especially some people on this forum who posts in speeding threads...lol @ them yelling at someone for posting they drive at 130/140km/h on the 401 (some old thread from a few months back)

[ShadowVlican]

City councillor proposes lowering of speed limits by 10km/h in Torontodo not want

[TenzoR]

So should we all live our lives based on the lowest common denominator of society?

30KM/h is too fast for some people, hell I'm sure there's atleast one moron out there who can't handle 10KM/h. That doesn't mean we should accommodate them on our roadways. If you can't handle the speed and way the majority of society drives then you shouldnt be driving, because you will be slowing everyone else down.

If everyone drives 120KM/h on the 401 and you can't handle that, you don't get to drive on the 401.

Of course you can never satisfy everyone, that's why you seek to satisfy the majority. And guess what, the MAJORITY of people speed.

Everyone deserves the same treatment regardless of their capability. They are given the same choice and chance.

As for majority of people speed, unless you have actual factual data, that's just a blank statement. You need to back it up, bring it up to your city councillor.

[TenzoR]

first off, this has nothing to do with what's reasonable to me.

secondly, if you want to discuss what's reasonable to me, i think people with cars that can stop in HALF the distance of other cars, should be allowed to drive TWICE as fast as the other cars.

for example, it takes an aston martin db9 half the distance to come to a complete stop than it does a regular car. therefore, the aston martin should be allowed to drive at TWICE the speed! :D

Using Top Gear reference isn't really going to help convince anyone ;)

Also, you have to take in account of driver's reaction time, the car's mechanical condition, road condition, temperature, etc

[TenzoR]

+1.

We need a revamp of the licensing system. It's too easy to pass and there should be a limit of 3-5 attempts maximum. After exhausting all attempts and you still fail, then gtfo. Quite ridiculous to hear stories of people attempting the tests well over 5 times to finally pass and I doubt they're passing with flying colours. Some people shouldn't be driving if they're so incapable as those capable are affected by them. Especially some people on this forum who posts in speeding threads...lol @ them yelling at someone for posting they drive at 130/140km/h on the 401 (some old thread from a few months back)

In addition to licensing, the car's mechanical condition will play another major role. So more to think about.

[MacGyver]

This bozo belongs in the same corner as Moscoe who suggested that all trucks be restricted to the right lane of the 401. Hmmm, how is anyone going to get on and off the highway with a train of trucks blocking all the ramps?

Anyway, the Ministry of Transportation in BC undertook a review of speed limits on all provincial highways, and we should push the MTO to do the same! You can read the report here: http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/publications/eng_publications/speed_review/Speed_Review_Report.pdf As a result, a few speed limits were lowered, but many were raised (none to 120, though). And some in terrain that makes Ontario terrain look like the prairies.

[actng]

Using Top Gear reference isn't really going to help convince anyone ;)

Also, you have to take in account of driver's reaction time, the car's mechanical condition, road condition, temperature, etc

did we always disagree? i always thought you were sensible... perhaps i was mistaken. your anal retentiveness to consider only one extreme view makes me lose interest in discussing this with you seriously.

[ES_Revenge]

first off, this has nothing to do with what's reasonable to me.

secondly, if you want to discuss what's reasonable to me, i think people with cars that can stop in HALF the distance of other cars, should be allowed to drive TWICE as fast as the other cars.

for example, it takes an aston martin db9 half the distance to come to a complete stop than it does a regular car. therefore, the aston martin should be allowed to drive at TWICE the speed! :D

You're confusing stopping distance at one speed with percentages.

Say a DB9 hauls down in 50% of the distance at 70MPH than does say a Toyota Coslowla. That doesn't mean that it will stop in 50% of the distance at 140MPH, nor does it account for the fact that regardless of the comparison the absolute stopping distance from 140MPH in the DB9 is surely greater than from 70MPH and most likely greater than the Coslowla from 70MPH (though the Coslowla is insanely bad so I wouldn't be all that surprised if a DB9 could outbrake it from 140-0 where the Coslowla only has to do 70-0 LOL). Not to mention the reaction time needed for things other than stopping is greatly reduced at 140 compared to 70. Not to mention the [peripheral] vision blur that typically occurs over 100MPH and the tunnelling effect from there going higher. Not to mention they have to be able to deal with and avoid other motorists (who are the majority compared to DB9 drivers) who occupy the road.

Surely cars like the Coslowla should be banned but allowing DB9 drivers to drive 200km/h+ doesn't sense any make either.

[jetway1212]

first off, this has nothing to do with what's reasonable to me.

secondly, if you want to discuss what's reasonable to me, i think people with cars that can stop in HALF the distance of other cars, should be allowed to drive TWICE as fast as the other cars.

for example, it takes an aston martin db9 half the distance to come to a complete stop than it does a regular car. therefore, the aston martin should be allowed to drive at TWICE the speed! :D

Wow, seriously, did you pass Physics class in grade school? Thats your logical thinking?

And... i thought its getting harder and harder to hold a steady job even with higher knowledge requirement these days. Please remind me what group i'm hanging out here?

[TenzoR]

did we always disagree? i always thought you were sensible... perhaps i was mistaken. your anal retentiveness to consider only one extreme view makes me lose interest in discussing this with you seriously.

I am sensible. I just don't think lowering the speed limit or upping the speed limit will really solve anything.

[actng]

does the :D face not mean anything to anyone?

[corrupt123]

Higher (I.E. harder) licensing standards, adjusted (for the most part, increased) speed limits, and mandatory vehicle safety inspections with every license plate sticker renewal.

THAT would be progress.

Problem is, everyone here is so used to driving that it would probably stall the economy. Better public transit would need to be built in tandem.

[UrbanPoet]

there will be just as many accidents and deaths...

most vehicle accidents are caused by excessive speed, excessive speed for the conditions, and lane changes.

The people speeding over the limit aren't going to slow down just b/c what used to be a 50 sign is now a 40.

The easy way to lower the amount of traffic accidents is by improving driver skills. Stringent licensing exams could help improve this... and maybe better drivers education.

[PsioniC]

Everyone deserves the same treatment regardless of their capability. They are given the same choice and chance.

As for majority of people speed, unless you have actual factual data, that's just a blank statement. You need to back it up, bring it up to your city councillor.

Everyone deserves a chance and a choice, sure. But once you screw that chance up that's it. If you can't cut it, you can't cut it. We can't spend our entire lives padding sharp edges and rounding corners to protect everyone. It slows down the capable people, which is a far greater detriment to society.

You know all those cars that are passing you on the right as you're doing EXACTLY 100kmph in the left lane, those are my factual statistics.

I dont know a single person who doesn't speed when they drive. I see a handful of them every time I drive, but the majority of people are driving considerably faster than the speed limit. As the original article in this thread states, most people already do 10kmph over the speed limit.

The idea that I would have to prove this with statistical data is ridiculous. Do you also require proof that the sky is blue?

[VorteC]

What may be reasonable for you may not be reasonable for other. Sure we can raise to 80km/h. But that just means for people who wants to pass people going 80km/h they will be going at 100km/h.

It's a never ending and to be honest no matter what speed limit they set, it'll never satisfy people.

By that logic, we should all get awesome jobs with only a high school education then??

The population should not be held back just because a few people out there can't cut the mustard.

Make the G1 and G2 exit tests harder, raise the limits, strictly enforce the raised limits, everyone is happy.

[TenzoR]

By that logic, we should all get awesome jobs with only a high school education then??

The population should not be held back just because a few people out there can't cut the mustard.

Make the G1 and G2 exit tests harder, raise the limits, strictly enforce the raised limits, everyone is happy.

Where do you draw the line? How do/can you decide fairly?

[TenzoR]

Everyone deserves a chance and a choice, sure. But once you screw that chance up that's it. If you can't cut it, you can't cut it. We can't spend our entire lives padding sharp edges and rounding corners to protect everyone. It slows down the capable people, which is a far greater detriment to society.


So what happen to those people that doesn't "cut it"? From the extreme point of view, that's almost saying, if you screwed up once in your life, you might as well just kill yourself as you have to be perfect to live in this world.


You know all those cars that are passing you on the right as you're doing EXACTLY 100kmph in the left lane, those are my factual statistics.

Unless you know me and follow me around, how can that ever be a fact? You are only guessing because of what I've commented.


I dont know a single person who doesn't speed when they drive. I see a handful of them every time I drive, but the majority of people are driving considerably faster than the speed limit. As the original article in this thread states, most people already do 10kmph over the speed limit.

The idea that I would have to prove this with statistical data is ridiculous. Do you also require proof that the sky is blue?

Yes, it's also crazy to do Clinical trials. Everyone should just trust Pharmaceutical companies to produce a perfect product.

[addikt]

Everyone deserves the same treatment regardless of their capability. They are given the same choice and chance.

As for majority of people speed, unless you have actual factual data, that's just a blank statement. You need to back it up, bring it up to your city councillor.

Of course you can't do that.... how's he gona clock everyone on the highway?

I spend ~500 km on the highway every week between Toronto and Waterloo and yes majority of the people do speed. My friend rarely goes below 120 km/hr in free traffic and most of the time he's hitting 130-140km/hr. And he is keeping up with traffic speed.

If they want to improve this, they should make 30 over speed limit a no-no instead of 50.

[superdeals]

Well, it seems they don't have anything else to do now. (and the economy is in deep ****!)

[ES_Revenge]

most vehicle accidents are caused by excessive speed, excessive speed for the conditions, and lane changes.
False I believe, but I agree with your general sentiment. Most vehicle accidents occur at speeds below the speed limit. Actually it's been stated on another thread a long time ago that we don't keep statistics like that in Canada but in the US (which is clearly similar) they do, and that's what they say. Now I'm not sure that's 100% accurate but given the poster that presented the information at the time seemed to have done his/her homework, I tend to think it was true.

More fatal accidents would surely be caused by excessive speed, but certainly not all accidents are fatal. In fact the vast majority of car accidents are non-fatal ones. This interesting tidbit (though it should be obvious) is what the government and hacks like Wooley don't like to tell you because they like to be able to scam people into the scapegoating mentality that works wonders for them increasing their bottom line and increasing their political power.

It's oh so much easier and more convenient for people to think "oh I don't drive fast so I can't be the one causing the accidents and problems with road safety, it's the speeders/street racers/etc." Also it allows people the cop out of not driving with proper vehicle equipment/condition thinking "oh I'll just 'go slow' and I'll be fine" :rolleyes: All the while they are indeed a big part of the problem with road safety, they just don't want to take responsibilty. The goverment knows this and knows they can cash in on it so that's how we end up keeping the status quo. If people can use scapegoating and cop outs to absolve themselves of responsibilty and the government encourages them to do so, why not? And if the government can make $$$ and gain votes/legitimacy in the same fashion, then why not? I mean who cares if tons of people get injured, die, etc? LOL.

Honestly why is so hard for people to say "I am part of the problem with road safety"??? Yes indeed I am as well, and you are too, and so is the next guy. But the difference comes in with two different types of drivers: One where you can say that and take responsibility and continually try to improve your driving all the time no matter how good a driver you are (or may think you are), and then the other where you just pretending like you're not part of the problem at all and blame all the problems on "them" (every group you can think of but you). The former thinking falls in line with a real regard for road safety, the latter thinking is one of the biggest problems on the road. And that problem is only reinforced by the government :rolleyes: : sigh :

The easy way to lower the amount of traffic accidents is by improving driver skills. Stringent licensing exams could help improve this... and maybe better drivers education.
Absolutely--agreed 100%. But both people and government need to ante up and start spending money and start taking responsibilty to do that, something no one wants to do given they can instead make money and scapegoat.