Dispute with PayPal and buyer

[Bell Rep]

I sold an item on eBay and so I shipped it by CP regular mail using a stamp. I shipped out another buyers item the very same time and they received it already and their further away. Now this buyer is filing a dispute with PayPal for a non-receipt item which I think hes trying to scam me. How can I win this case because there's no tracking number or any proof. I want to mention that the buyer was already being rude in the beginning and didn't want to pay but he eventually did because he didn't want a unpaid strike.

[UberN00b]

I sold an item on eBay and so I shipped it by CP regular mail using a stamp. I shipped out another buyers item the very same time and they received it already and their further away. Now this buyer is filing a dispute with PayPal for a non-receipt item which I think hes trying to scam me. How can I win this case because there's no tracking number or any proof. I want to mention that the buyer was already being rude in the beginning and didn't want to pay but he eventually did because he didn't want a unpaid strike.

unfortunately your screwed. paypal always sides with the buyer, and it doesnt help that you dont have a tracking number as well.

well actually, do you have the reciept that says you shipped it out? maybe CP can help you..

[Bell Rep]

unfortunately your screwed. paypal always sides with the buyer, and it doesnt help that you dont have a tracking number as well.

well actually, do you have the reciept that says you shipped it out? maybe CP can help you..

Nope, nothing. It was clearly stated on my auction that it will be sent by regular mail and there's no receipt when mailing by stamp.

[UberN00b]

Nope, nothing. It was clearly stated on my auction that it will be sent by regular mail and there's no receipt when mailing by stamp.

yep your SOL to be honest..

[Vov86]

Unfortunately there's nothing you can do. I lost $300 that way and it's one of the reasons I don't use Paypal anymore. In my case there was a tracking number but no signature. I just sent the item via Xpresspost. It clearly showed online that the other person received the item but since there was no signature Paypal said " After careful consideration of the evidence provided in the case detailed below, we have completed our investigation and decided in favor of the buyer. Under terms of our User Agreement, we have debited the following amount from your PayPal account as a refund to the buyer: $300.00 USD". They always support the buyer and not the seller.

[Bell Rep]

Unfortunately there's nothing you can do. I lost $300 that way and it's one of the reasons I don't use Paypal anymore. In my case there was a tracking number but no signature. I just sent the item via Xpresspost. It clearly showed online that the other person received the item but since there was no signature Paypal said " After careful consideration of the evidence provided in the case detailed below, we have completed our investigation and decided in favor of the buyer. Under terms of our User Agreement, we have debited the following amount from your PayPal account as a refund to the buyer: $300.00 USD". They always support the buyer and not the seller.

Wow, sorry to hear that. I guess I am down a stamp and a envelope.

[woof]

I want to mention that the buyer was already being rude in the beginning and didn't want to pay but he eventually did because he didn't want a unpaid strike.

As mentioned Paypal will almost always support the buyer and give the seller the shaft. SOP (Standard Operating Procedure).

In this case where it was clear from the very beginning that this was a problem buyer rather than forcing him to go through with payment you should have offered to cancel the transaction so that both of you could just walk away. In going ahead with this in spite of the warning signs you gave the buyer a chance to stick it to you. It's always better to lose the sale than lose the merchandise.

[XtremeModder]

I had this happen yo me for $300 before, I found the persons phonr number and called them, the persons father answered and literally freaked on the kid and the father confirmed that what I sent was delivered and he gave me the $300 back that was taken from me. If anything try to find the guys number and see if this works

[Red_Army]

ya ur screwed...like the other poster said they usually side with the buyer, even when there is tracking, if there's no signature, then you are responsible...they basically make up any excuse they want to award the dispute to whomever they want

the few times i have sold on ebay, i have only used fedex or purolator to ship items, because they will not safe drop...i would never send anything standard mail...if you take the time to sell an item then the item is worth enough to make sure it arrives

[figment]

Yeah no tracking number or receipt is a tough one. You may have to find your own justice by going to his address and demanding your money (Embarrass him through his neighbors, family members etc...)

and yep, PayPal favors buyers generally unless sellers got concrete proof at least you can learn from this mistake if anything

[Red_Army]

Yeah no tracking number or receipt is a tough one. You may have to find your own justice by going to his address and demanding your money (Embarrass him through his neighbors, family members etc...)

and yep, PayPal favors buyers generally unless sellers got concrete proof at least you can learn from this mistake if anything

im sure in most cases its not as easy as walking down the street and banging on the door

[GTA: YYC]

unfortunately your screwed. paypal always sides with the buyer, and it doesnt help that you dont have a tracking number as well.

well actually, do you have the reciept that says you shipped it out? maybe CP can help you..

Like hell they do, I got ripped off by a guy selling DIVX movies burned to DVD-R with photocopied packaging. I provided them with detailed photographs and everything and they sided with the scammer.

[Red_Army]

Like hell they do, I got ripped off by a guy selling DIVX movies burned to DVD-R with photocopied packaging. I provided them with detailed photographs and everything and they sided with the scammer.

like i said...they side with whatever is easier for them

i have come across before....thats why now i will ask them specifically if its region 1 sealed in retail packaging

[woof]

Like hell they do, I got ripped off by a guy selling DIVX movies burned to DVD-R with photocopied packaging. I provided them with detailed photographs and everything and they sided with the scammer.

Unless the seller specifically promised that it was an original genuine retail disk then yeah Paypal was right to decide against you. The "not as described" argument falls apart unless you can specifically show how the goods are misrepresented. Counterfeit goods in itself is not misrepresentation since eBay generally does not accept claims of counterfeit from buyers. They will only listen to the manufacturer or an authorized representative. As a buyer this means "not you".

[gsrce]

Just don't send items to people without using some sort of tracked method. It's expensive, but it means you will win a dispute 99% of the time with PayPal, or at least get a refund for the insured amount through whatever carrier you used.

If you're selling low cost items however, people won't pay high shipping, so you're probably better off not selling the items on ebay in that situation.

[dmdsoftware2]

I don't believe the guys who said they were sided against because of signature. Paypal dispute doesn't require delivery with signature, only delivery with tracking. Getting signature probably can only hurt you because buyer can say that isn't his signature.

The key is that the buyer needs to be confirmed (address confirmed) and the transaction has to be eligible for seller protection. If the transaction is protected, and parcel shows delivered with a tracking number, seller wins.

I only ship with a stamp if it is a low-cost item and buyer appears honest (previous dealings, high ratings, people can vouch for him, address is confirmed, I can find his address with yellow pages etc). If any of those factors are not hit, then I insist on confirmed address with tracking method of shipment or I refuse to sell, and will pick an alternative bidder. You have the right to refuse to ship to the customer if he can't provide a confirmed address.

Finally, for the OP's situation, if I have a disgruntled buyer who doesn't want the item and doesn't want the unpaid strike, then I settle for a resolution result that doesn't result in an unpaid strike but gets a final fee refund. I never risk forcing a buyer into a transaction he doesn't want to enter into, because those are the types that will screw with you at the first opportunity. Rather relist the auction and repay the listing fees then lose time and money chasing a deadbeat buyer.

I'm a Power Seller who's sold thousands of items.

[HowEver]

Wow, sorry to hear that. I guess I am down a stamp and a envelope.

What do you mean?

That you sent an empty shipment, or that the product was worth $0?

[GTA: YYC]

Unless the seller specifically promised that it was an original genuine retail disk then yeah Paypal was right to decide against you. The "not as described" argument falls apart unless you can specifically show how the goods are misrepresented. Counterfeit goods in itself is not misrepresentation since eBay generally does not accept claims of counterfeit from buyers. They will only listen to the manufacturer or an authorized representative. As a buyer this means "not you".

The photograph was of a factory sealed original, if that isn't an advertisement for a genuine retail disc I don't know what is.

[M@rk]

How do you know that he's actually scamming you? Speaking as a powerseller, items do get lost in transit, so perhaps he never actually received it.

[Bell Rep]

What do you mean?

That you sent an empty shipment, or that the product was worth $0?

No, the item cost me nothing (free) so it really only cost me stamp. Oh and eBay fees.

[woof]

The photograph was of a factory sealed original, if that isn't an advertisement for a genuine retail disc I don't know what is.

But it wasn't specifically stated in the text anywhere? Even so, technically you should have won your dispute on the basis of not as described (eg "received used disk not brand new disk as shown in auction photos") unless you raised the issue of counterfeit which flips the coin the other way and gives them the excuse to rule against you.

[skyrink]

Can't you just mail an empty insured envelope to him now and pretend like that was the tracking number?

On a similar note, hijacking not intended, I'm planning to buy an expensive phone on ebay advertised as sealed brand new and paying with paypal. He has 0 feedback btw. But I'm scared he might send an empty box or a fake phone, insure it, and provide to paypal with the tracking when I file for a dispute.

Comments?

[dmdsoftware2]

No, the item cost me nothing (free) so it really only cost me stamp. Oh and eBay fees.

Item cost you $0....

so to answer your question, move on. Leave Paypal investigators to investigate real scamming in the hundred $+ range.

Just remember, no tracking = no love from Paypal. If these items you sell cost $0 and can fit in an envelope, then you really have no legs to stand on with Paypal without tracking.

[Bazooka Joe]

Can't you just mail an empty insured envelope to him now and pretend like that was the tracking number?

On a similar note, hijacking not intended, I'm planning to buy an expensive phone on ebay advertised as sealed brand new and paying with paypal. He has 0 feedback btw. But I'm scared he might send an empty box or a fake phone, insure it, and provide to paypal with the tracking when I file for a dispute.

Comments?

I'm sure it'll go just fine. Make sure to post here after you're done.

[jp06]

I don't believe the guys who said they were sided against because of signature. Paypal dispute doesn't require delivery with signature, only delivery with tracking. Getting signature probably can only hurt you because buyer can say that isn't his signature.

The key is that the buyer needs to be confirmed (address confirmed) and the transaction has to be eligible for seller protection. If the transaction is protected, and parcel shows delivered with a tracking number, seller wins.

I only ship with a stamp if it is a low-cost item and buyer appears honest (previous dealings, high ratings, people can vouch for him, address is confirmed, I can find his address with yellow pages etc). If any of those factors are not hit, then I insist on confirmed address with tracking method of shipment or I refuse to sell, and will pick an alternative bidder. You have the right to refuse to ship to the customer if he can't provide a confirmed address.

Finally, for the OP's situation, if I have a disgruntled buyer who doesn't want the item and doesn't want the unpaid strike, then I settle for a resolution result that doesn't result in an unpaid strike but gets a final fee refund. I never risk forcing a buyer into a transaction he doesn't want to enter into, because those are the types that will screw with you at the first opportunity. Rather relist the auction and repay the listing fees then lose time and money chasing a deadbeat buyer.

I'm a Power Seller who's sold thousands of items.

there's a flaw to this tracking # proof method. I could send a box full of Sh/t with tracking # to the buyer. So in the end if Paypal sides with the Seller just b/c there's a tracking #, then the Buyer gets screwed. I'd say just videotape yourself going to the courier centre, videotape the item being put into the package, seal it, and hand it over to the shipping staff. What other way is there to prove that you did send the actual item? That way the Buyer can't say you sent him something else. I can see why eBay/Paypal will side with buyers the majority of the time, b/c NO BUYERS = NO COMMISSIONS. So they keep these scammers happy and keep the scamming cycle continuous.

As for mailing with Canada Post, the seller is out of luck b/c who knows if the mail did get lost? No way to prove that it got to the buyer even if he WAS a jackass

[dmdsoftware2]

there's a flaw to this tracking # proof method. I could send a box full of Sh/t with tracking # to the buyer. So in the end if Paypal sides with the Seller just b/c there's a tracking #, then the Buyer gets screwed. I'd say just videotape yourself going to the courier centre, videotape the item being put into the package, seal it, and hand it over to the shipping staff. What other way is there to prove that you did send the actual item? That way the Buyer can't say you sent him something else. I can see why eBay/Paypal will side with buyers the majority of the time, b/c NO BUYERS = NO COMMISSIONS. So they keep these scammers happy and keep the scamming cycle continuous.

As for mailing with Canada Post, the seller is out of luck b/c who knows if the mail did get lost? No way to prove that it got to the buyer even if he WAS a jackass

All Paypal requires for 'item not received" is a tracking number. If the tracking number shows delivered and buyer says he hasn't received, then Paypal will ask the seller to open a trace. If Canada Post reports item was delivered to place designated, then seller wins (this has happened to me). If Canada Post reports item may have not made it to the correct destination, buyer wins but seller gets insurance from Canada Post.

If buyer opens an "item not as described", is much more sticky and I haven't had any experience with this. But I've come across many threads online where sellers were shipping the right item, but it was no where near the quality specified (not new, but bashed up, defective, etc) and the sellers were winning on the disputes. Once case the seller had many many complaints open concurrently, and the seller won on each.

[fboybcb]

Can't you just mail an empty insured envelope to him now and pretend like that was the tracking number?

On a similar note, hijacking not intended, I'm planning to buy an expensive phone on ebay advertised as sealed brand new and paying with paypal. He has 0 feedback btw. But I'm scared he might send an empty box or a fake phone, insure it, and provide to paypal with the tracking when I file for a dispute.

Comments?

I recommend not buying it. Not saying 100% the seller might be up to something but it's better to do business with a well established feedback. I've been an ebay buyer and seller and usually items that I purchase that are expensive will be usually bought from sellers that have high feedback rating, also by checking their recent past transactions (feedbacks).

[Bell Rep]

I just won my claim for a non received item. Now, what if the seller doesn't have enough money to be refunded? how will I get my money?

[dmdsoftware2]

I just won my claim for a non received item. Now, what if the seller doesn't have enough money to be refunded? how will I get my money?

If he sells quite a bit, I doubt he would have withdrawn the money before you opened the dispute. The funds are held once a dispute is opened.

If he is a scammer and always keeps a low balance, then you won't be able to collect the full amount. Only a chargeback will cure this.

[Bell Rep]

PayPal is asking me to destroy item and send a fax to them when it is. What do I do exactly? I have 3 days to fax them. I am not familiar with faxing so please help me out.

[Throwback24]

I just won my claim for a non received item. Now, what if the seller doesn't have enough money to be refunded? how will I get my money?

You won't, that's why you buy things with your credit card and when paypal tries to **** with you file for a chargeback.

[dmxlite]

I just won my claim for a non received item. Now, what if the seller doesn't have enough money to be refunded? how will I get my money?

They'll keep trying, but don't count on getting it back.
If you're also a seller using Paypal, then I might not do a chargeback unless it's a large item. There were reports on the paypal sucks page that they may limit your account.

[apvm]

I don't believe the guys who said they were sided against because of signature. Paypal dispute doesn't require delivery with signature, only delivery with tracking. Getting signature probably can only hurt you because buyer can say that isn't his signature.

The key is that the buyer needs to be confirmed (address confirmed) and the transaction has to be eligible for seller protection. If the transaction is protected, and parcel shows delivered with a tracking number, seller wins.

I only ship with a stamp if it is a low-cost item and buyer appears honest (previous dealings, high ratings, people can vouch for him, address is confirmed, I can find his address with yellow pages etc). If any of those factors are not hit, then I insist on confirmed address with tracking method of shipment or I refuse to sell, and will pick an alternative bidder. You have the right to refuse to ship to the customer if he can't provide a confirmed address.

Finally, for the OP's situation, if I have a disgruntled buyer who doesn't want the item and doesn't want the unpaid strike, then I settle for a resolution result that doesn't result in an unpaid strike but gets a final fee refund. I never risk forcing a buyer into a transaction he doesn't want to enter into, because those are the types that will screw with you at the first opportunity. Rather relist the auction and repay the listing fees then lose time and money chasing a deadbeat buyer.

I'm a Power Seller who's sold thousands of items.

Listen to this person and you should do alright over at ebay.

BTW, for shipping with tracking, Canada Post expedited Parcel post is the cheapest if shipping to a non commerical address and Fedex ground cheapest to commerical address. (slightly more expensive than CP expedited to non commerical address $.20 to $2.50 depends on address) I usually calculate rates before deciding CP or Fedex. Fedex require signature but that was a joke, you can't tell who signed it most of the time.

In any case, always sent to confirmed address with tracking to avoid problem or you can sell them over here at the buy/sell forum at an average of 20% less. I usually try to sell over here 1st for the price I want, if I couldn't, I'll list them on ebay and usually I got the amount I wanted and sometimes even more.