Dog bite advise

[firechkn]

I am looking for some friendly advise so please don't flame me.

Some background; a few months ago while walking my dog a large dog charged us from a near by house and attacked my dog, leaving a puncture wound near its stomach. I called animal control and they ordered a muzzel be on that dog at all times while outside.

Fast forward to now. While I was preparing to take my dog out for a walk this morning, in the midst of attaching the leash, my dog suddenly bolted out to the street. I ran after it but it must of sense that other dog and they started fighting. From what I can tell the other dog is not injured, my dog seem to have suffered a bite or cut to it's rear leg. The owner while trying to separate the fight got his finger bitten. Not sure which dog bit him. The large dog did not have a muzzle on, owner claims it's a different dog the brother of the first dog.

I take responsibility for not having a firm hold on my dog. What kind of charges can be laid upon me? I assume he will call animal control or the police for his wound.

I feel lousy for letting this happen :cry:

[CSK'sMom]

It really depends. At the very least expect that your dog will be under a quarantine order (house arrest) for 10 days due to a human bite. Anything else will be up to the animal control officer.

[mkerian]

Let us know what happens.

[rehearser]

Do you have pics of your dog?

[firechkn]

From what I understand the owner of the attacking dog that draws blood (me) is usually at fault. Since these dogs have a history already and it's not clear who bit the finger I'm hoping we have a case.

I know I'm at fault but I just hope the animal control officer has some understanding.

[firechkn]

Do you have pics of your dog?

What for? My dog is a small American Eskimo about 20 lbs. The german sheppard is probably close to 100 lbs.

[mkerian]

From what I understand the owner of the attacking dog that draws blood (me) is usually at fault. Since these dogs have a history already and it's not clear who bit the finger I'm hoping we have a case.

I know I'm at fault but I just hope the animal control officer has some understanding.

Couldn't you argue that your dog was bite on the leg and that it was just trying to defend itself???

Or, that since your dog was actually bitten, than it stands to reason that the other dog also bit its owner in the frenzy??

[win-star]

sorry that that happened to you. With my little Chihuahua, everytime I see or hear a larger dog in site, I usually pick up my dog and carry her until i see it's safe to let her down again.

[UrbanPoet]

Couldn't you argue that your dog was bite on the leg and that it was just trying to defend itself???

Or, that since your dog was actually bitten, than it stands to reason that the other dog also bit its owner in the frenzy??

seems like the dog went back for revenge the second time around!!!

[Kenny Blankenship]

What for? My dog is a small American Eskimo about 20 lbs. The german sheppard is probably close to 100 lbs.

But there are pics of the poster who asked you

http://www.cataroo.com/suits/tony.jpg

[firechkn]

Couldn't you argue that your dog was bite on the leg and that it was just trying to defend itself???

Or, that since your dog was actually bitten, than it stands to reason that the other dog also bit its owner in the frenzy??

I will try that defense, but the fact remains my dog charge his and broke from my grasp.

[firechkn]

seems like the dog went back for revenge the second time around!!!

It's no lie, these dogs hate each other. My dog goes berserk whenever it comes towards our house, his does the exact same.

[pintobean]

There is a ton of room in this situation for "he said, she said", and since the other owner already has a black mark on his record from the previous altercation, I think you just might get off ok.

If the other dog owner decides to pursue this, he is going to say that your dog charged him and provoked the attack and he got bitten by your dog as a result of breaking up the fight.

At this point, you would need to say that there is no way to prove that your dog was the one that bit the other owner. You would also point out that his dog is the one with the history of biting, and then you would bring up the previous altercation. Now the other owner is going to say that today's dog was not the same as the one involved in the previous incident, and claim that it was the brother, but that not only sounds like a lie, it also makes the owner seem doubly irresponsible. I mean he knows from experience that his dogs can act aggressively, so he should have had his dog muzzled today, regardless of whether there was an order to muzzle it or not.

To an outsider, it could easily be made to look like the other guy was equally at fault here, so I doubt that you're going to get the entire blame for this incident. In future, you probably want to leash your dog before you open your door.

[mkerian]

It's no lie, these dogs hate each other. My dog goes berserk whenever it comes towards our house, his does the exact same.

Why don't you AVOID each other's house?

[firechkn]

Why don't you AVOID each other's house?

He lives a few houses over and I do, I always walk across the street from his house, he obviously doesn't >:(

[firechkn]

There is a ton of room in this situation for "he said, she said", and since the other owner already has a black mark on his record from the previous altercation, I think you just might get off ok.

If the other dog owner decides to pursue this, he is going to say that your dog charged him and provoked the attack and he got bitten by your dog as a result of breaking up the fight.

At this point, you would need to say that there is no way to prove that your dog was the one that bit the other owner. You would also point out that his dog is the one with the history of biting, and then you would bring up the previous altercation. Now the other owner is going to say that today's dog was not the same as the one involved in the previous incident, and claim that it was the brother, but that not only sounds like a lie, it also makes the owner seem doubly irresponsible. I mean he knows from experience that his dogs can act aggressively, so he should have had his dog muzzled today, regardless of whether there was an order to muzzle it or not.

To an outsider, it could easily be made to look like the other guy was equally at fault here, so I doubt that you're going to get the entire blame for this incident. In future, you probably want to leash your dog before you open your door.

Well said, that's exactly what I'm thinking. I just hope the officer sees this point of view. Thanks.

[felixdd]

I honestly don't think you need to slant it any way other than how you told us.

It sounds like the two dogs had history towards each other. Furthermore, the dog was going for another dog, not another human. The human bite was an accident.

Worst case scenario, your dog will be muzzled too. Or Animal Control will chastise you for not leashing the dog prior to exiting your property.

Your dog won't be taken from you.

[firechkn]

I honestly don't think you need to slant it any way other than how you told us.

It sounds like the two dogs had history towards each other. Furthermore, the dog was going for another dog, not another human. The human bite was an accident.

Worst case scenario, your dog will be muzzled too. Or Animal Control will chastise you for not leashing the dog prior to exiting your property.

Your dog won't be taken from you.

Thanks for your confidence. Under the circumstances I could live with a muzzle.

[firechkn]

The animal control lady dropped by today. What luck, it was the same lady who came last time when my dog got bitten. She was very understanding, and we even had a laugh at the situation.

Unfortunately the standard procedure is to microchip my dog along with a muzzle outdoors. I could live with that.

I did mention to her the other dog was not muzzled but did not want to make a big deal this time. This happens quite often.

I'm glad it ended well. I will be more careful next time.

[CrazyFace]

firechkn, I'm curious how the owner of the other dog responded to both of the incidents. Was he defensive or did he own up to his mistakes?

[firechkn]

firechkn, I'm curious how the owner of the other dog responded to both of the incidents. Was he defensive or did he own up to his mistakes?

Funny you should ask. When the first incident took place he did not apologize but instead gave me a poor excuse that he thought I had already passed his house and didn't realize the back door was open.

I was in shock and didn't know what to say at the time so after awhile went home to get ready for work. While home I quickly looked over my dog, didn't notice any injuries and hurried for work. Not until later in the evening did I see a bite mark in her stomach near the ribs. She is a fluffy long hair dog and it's very hard to see anything, I used a flashlight to find it.

I was upset at what I found so that's when I went back to his house to confront him about the incident, rabies shot, etc. The guy was rude, still didn't offer an apology and gave me a lame excuse the wife has the papers and won't be home until the morning. So I waited until the next evening, but still nothing.

I'm a forgiving person and normally would not get the authorities involved, but this guy is just asking for it. That's when I called animal control.

Yesterday's incident was not much different, but I did offer an apology. Looks like the favor was just returned to me though. I don't want a feud on my hands, but I will be taking the appropriate steps and gathering evidence as in pictures of his dog without a muzzle in case I ever need it.


Update: Public health wants to have a look at my dog Monday, must show them papers and my dog will be home quarantine for 10 days. Did I mention I hate my neighbor?

[Migger]

sorry that that happened to you. With my little Chihuahua, everytime I see or hear a larger dog in site, I usually pick up my dog and carry her until i see it's safe to let her down again.

Just out of curiousity, is it because you're afraid that larger dogs would go after your chihuahua, or has there already been history?

I own a fairly big dog (60 lb husky/bernese mix), and I've also owned a Yorkie in the past. I find that some people with smaller dogs will go out of their way to pick up their dogs when they see a large dogs, despite the fact that these dogs are on a leash and are usually pretty docile.

One time, I was just heading for a walk with my dog on leash, and a lady full out went into a run to pick up her dog (off leash) when she saw us coming out the door... My dog hadn't done anything and wasn't even interested in her dog.

[jandumm]

With my little Chihuahua, everytime I see or hear a larger dog in site, I usually pick up my dog and carry her until i see it's safe to let her down again.

Not that it's relating to you at all, just struck a nerve with me about little dogs and people picking them up - most dog behaviourists will advise that picking up your dog (especially if it's exhibiting any behaviour such as barking/afraid/nervous/getting feisty) actually encourages the same kind of behaviour -> dog sees it the picking up/closeness to the owner as affection and a reinforcement of the negative behaviour they've just exhibited.

Folks like Cesar Millan would recommend keeping a calm demeanour and simply walking your dog past the bigger dog without making a big deal of it.

Probably explains why I see a lot of crazy small dogs that bark/nip/go nuts when I walk my bigger dog or at the dog park...

At the dog park I go to, Chihuahuas, Yorkies, Mini Dachshunds and Puggles are some of the meanest dogs at the park (especially those weiner dogs) and I HATE when the owner picks up the dog when it's charged/nipped/bit another dog. It just makes the problem worse. And unfortunately cuz they are small dogs, the bigger dog tends to get blamed.

Grrr!

[dhamilton]

sorry that that happened to you. With my little Chihuahua, everytime I see or hear a larger dog in site, I usually pick up my dog and carry her until i see it's safe to let her down again.


And this is how small dog syndrome happens.

the vast majority of dogs will not attack a dog that is smaller than it for no reason. you are doing more harm to your dog by picking it up than letting them sniff each other. You can also tell a lot about the dog by closely watching it's behaviour when they are meeting each other...Most fights are based on whether or not the opposing dog is threatening to them. Small dogs aren't threatening to a big dog.

[dhamilton]

Not that it's relating to you at all, just struck a nerve with me about little dogs and people picking them up - most dog behaviourists will advise that picking up your dog (especially if it's exhibiting any behaviour such as barking/afraid/nervous/getting feisty) actually encourages the same kind of behaviour -> dog sees it the picking up/closeness to the owner as affection and a reinforcement of the negative behaviour they've just exhibited.

Folks like Cesar Millan would recommend keeping a calm demeanour and simply walking your dog past the bigger dog without making a big deal of it.

Probably explains why I see a lot of crazy small dogs that bark/nip/go nuts when I walk my bigger dog or at the dog park...

At the dog park I go to, Chihuahuas, Yorkies, Mini Dachshunds and Puggles are some of the meanest dogs at the park (especially those weiner dogs) and I HATE when the owner picks up the dog when it's charged/nipped/bit another dog. It just makes the problem worse. And unfortunately cuz they are small dogs, the bigger dog tends to get blamed.

Grrr!


Didn't even see this post before I posted, but I agree completely.

I have a 10 pound maltese and he has never been attacked...snapped at, yes, but it's not uncommon for dogs to snap at each other. It's just a warning to stay back, which is when I tighten my leash...but I will never pick up my dog unless it turns really ugly (which is highly unlikely)

[jandumm]

Didn't even see this post before I posted, but I agree completely.

I have a 10 pound maltese and he has never been attacked...snapped at, yes, but it's not uncommon for dogs to snap at each other. It's just a warning to stay back, which is when I tighten my leash...but I will never pick up my dog unless it turns really ugly (which is highly unlikely)

Yah i agree....a few months ago I witnessed a miniature dachshund attack a 5 month old (huge) french mastiff puppy, to the point where the puppy's owner had his hand all cut up. The dachshund owner squealed "no" and picked up the dog and cuddled it and carried it away. Didn't even ask if the hand was okay, offer evidence of shots, etc. Goodness knows what that dog would attack next.

People tend to forget that a lot of small dogs were bred to hunt foxes, badgers and the like -> thus they also have the tenaciousness and attitude required to catch animals bigger than they are, hence they're born with feistiness because they need it. Just cuz they're small, they aren't like dolls/babies - still need the same discipline/obedience/handling that a rottweiler or doberman needs as they are still still have the canine instinct.

Cesar Milan says something cool about your dog's origins...e.g. huskies were bred to pull, dachschunds are weiner shaped so they could get into foxx holes. My dog's a bullmastiff <- a guard dog who was bred to protect herdsmen from poachers. Her guarding instinct is crap (she'll roll over for a cookie and a belly rub), but whenever we go somewhere new, she always prowls the perimeter as per instinct. They were also bred to not bite, but to pin intruders - when she's playing with dogs, she doesn't like using her mouth, but would prefer to jump up and wrestle. And as per Wiki, "They were never bred for hunting purposes, and should not show signs of aggression." <- thus if you do have a breed that was bred for hunting purposes in its lines, they may have a greater prey instinct.