Is "PUA" screwing up men?

[smolek]

I got the idea for this thread from the "douchebag phone message" thread.

For those of you unaware, PUA refers to "Pick up artistry" AKA people taking courses and attending conferences to learn how to pick up women...

I have on friend who is really into this. I think he takes it to the extreme. Last time we went out to a club (several months ago...I stopped hanging with this guy because of his newfound PUA attitude) he basically approached every woman in sight and wouldn't leave one girl alone and was asked to leave the club...LOL Prior to this me and my GF at the time ran into him at bar with a bunch of his PUA buddies, and one the D'Bags started spewing some idiotic generic lines at my GF and even told me to stop "cock-blocking" him...we got a good laugh out of it but a pretty akward situation to say the least

Anyway this guy thinks he's a major pimp, and he has an excel document with like 200 numbers on his computer...I think he's an idiot, because he gets nowhere with 90% of the women and hasn't slept with them or been in a relationship with any of them ever...

The sad part is he has spent about 1000 dollars on DVD's about how to pick up chicks, and even spent 2500 dollars to attend a "bootcamp" on picking up girls where they basically go out clubbing every night and force themselves to approach women. Whenever I talked to him about this collosal waste of money, he would call me a "player hater" and say that I was hating on him because I couldn't get any girls, meanwhile I am far more successful on that end then he has ever been

It's really skewed his ideas about women and made him a really strange guy, so I wonder, does PUA screw a lot of people up like this? Even if its only 1 in 10 guys, thats still alot of harm this stuff is doing...I admire that people are trying to better themselves, but some of the stuff these guys do is just idiotic

Opinions? Thoughts? Experiences?

[pupazzo]

Lol must suck to be ugly

[smolek]

Lol must suck to be uglyLOL true but the sad part is this guy is actually decent looking, just socially akward as hell

this stuff hasnt helped that

[Soda Popinski]

It sounds a bit like a cult. I think these types of classes are harmless as long as you don't take them seriously. I'm sure that a lot of people can get a few good tips here and there, but I get the impression that these types of classes are taught by blowhard losers who aren't too successful with the ladies themselves.

Tell your friend to take a step back and not take the classes too seriously.

[thelefteyeguy]

stop cockblocking your friend...be happy with your gf...

[Psubs]

stop cockblocking your friend...be happy with your gf...

+1

If he's having fun, let him be. When he's older, he can brag how he pulled in tonnes of numbers and never bothered to contact most of them. :lol:

[bobbings]

200 numbers and his success rate is 10%??? That's pretty good. I'd have a hard time trying to juggle 20 women at once. 19 is my record btw haha jk

[smolek]

stop cockblocking your friend...be happy with your gf...trust me im not cockblocking at all...i used to invite him out with my friends so he could meet chicks but then he started acting loco and embarassing me lol

whoever said it was like a cult is dead on. any criticism about it gets blown off as player hating...he wouldnt even agree that over 3500 is ridiculous to spend on this stuff

[nuberific]

My friend's ex claimed to be a PUA (although he never called it that). He was a douchebag with an overloaded self esteem. He said he taught classes too.

In the end, I do think it makes you a bit cocky. But better a PUA than the best TF2 sniper bar none!

[i6s1]

I think it helps, as long as you don't get carried away. Try different approaches until you find what works for you. Hopefully your friend will learn to pull back a bit. The whole "be nice" stratagy had it's share of stalkers.

[thelefteyeguy]

PUA's arent screwing up men...in fact, the douche bags will just make normal guys look better. :)


great strategy is to send a few PUA out first and piss all the ladies off...then the normal guy steps in to save the day.

[45ED]

If I may be so inclined to recall this story of a guy who went to a PUA seminar:

George Sodini Sought Dating Help Before Pennsylvania Gym Shooting

Video Shows Sodini in Seminar on How to Pick Up Women

By JOHN BERMAN, NED POTTER, JAY SHAYLOR, LEE FERRAN, SARAH NETTER &

KELLY HAGAN

Aug. 7, 2009

New video of suspected Pennsylvania gym shooter George Sodini shows the man who killed three women at LA Fitness attending a seminar to learn how to pick up women.

In the video Sodini, dressed in a white button-down shirt, is seen sitting in rapt attention, listening to author R. Don Steele tell the audience that men have to be tough to be successful in love.

"Nice guys must die," Steele said in the video. "I would say that is the problem with most guys in the room. You are too nice."

Sodini can even be seen with a young woman during a practice exercise during the seminar.

A copy of Steele's book, "How to Date Young Women: For Men over 35," was seen in a video tour of Sodini's house that he posted online.

Steele could not be reached for comment.

Sodini mentioned Steele's advice in another video he'd posted, identifying the author by his initials.

"RDS says that I have approximately, maybe 15 more years to be successful at this," he said.

But instead of continuing his pursuit of women, it is believed that Sodini calmly walked into the Bridgeville, Pa., LA Fitness Tuesday night and opened fire on a crowded Latin dance class. He killed three women and wounded several others before turning a second gun on himself.

The three who died were 46-year-old Heidi Obermier, 49-year-old Elizabeth Gannon and 39-year-old Jody Billingsley, according to the Allegheny coroner's office. Sodini also shot the pregnant class instructor, who saved her life and that of her unborn child by playing dead.

Funerals for the three women who died start Saturday.

Blog entries found online after Sodini's death indicate he longed for a relationship and was upset that he hadn't had sex since 1990. He also wrote of a troubled relationship with what he said was his domineering mother.

Steele's advice during the seminar seemed to speak to all those issues.

"It's normal to be scared when you've been hurt by women in the past," Steele told the group, including Sodini. "The first woman who hurts is your mother. And that lasts as lifetime."

George Sodini Posted Online Musings, Wanted to Meet Jesus

After the shooting, several Web sites, videos and blog entries came to the forefront showing that Sodini had been planning the attack for months, even "chickening out" twice, as he put it.

On one site, Sodini described himself as "Crazy George." That was in addition to the blog he apparently kept in the months leading up to Tuesday night's shootings at a suburban Pittsburgh gym, and videos he posted online.

On the "Crazy George" Web site, he says his age is "less than forty" and lists his marital status as "single bliss."

The site includes an "Interview with crazygeorge" in which he answers the question, "Have you ever been in love?"

"Hell yea, lots of times, I am still single so obviously nothing ever worked out," is the answer given.

If he could meet one person dead or alive, who would it be? "Jesus Christ."

His favorite alcoholic drink? "Don't drink." He also includes pictures of a cat named Snippers, whom he describes as "The Best Cat EVER!" Snippers, according to the site, lived from 1984 to 1999.

And he includes five "Dumb Blonde Jokes."

Most of the material on the site appears to be from 1999 and 2000. He turned to a blog in more recent times, and to videos he posted of himself online. The video was found by ABC's Pittsburgh affiliate WTAE.

"So my objective is to be real and to be emotional and to be able to emotionally connect with people," Sodini said in one of the videos. "It is easy for me to hide from my emotions for one day ... and there you go and one more day turns into one more year."

The videos were uncovered hours after a hidden message was found in the code of Sodini's blog that said he was considering calling off or postponing the shooting based on a woman he saw in a nearby park.

In another video, apparently posted in February 2008, Sodini gives a tour of his home, which featured a flat-screen television, computer and a dinner table set for two.

"The women will be really impressed. Come over here. There's reading material that we're all familiar with," Sodini says in the video. On the coffee table is a book titled "How to Date Young Women for Men Over 35."

In the video, Sodini discusses his tumultuous feelings for younger women.

"Because when I'm 10 to 20 years older than she is, she has to feel good about this thing and the only way around this is to work on this. ... I'm going to post this and see what comes back," Sodini said.

"Clearly, he has a problem because of what he did," forensic psychiatrist Dr. Barbara Ziv told "Good Morning America." "The frightening thing is, he is more like you and I than he is serial killers. He's not a guy who is killing because he enjoys killing. He's a guy who wants to make a mark. This is the only way he knows how to do it."

Police say Sodini used two 9-millimeter automatic pistols and fired 36 shots inside the class of around 30 women. He then used a .45 caliber revolver to take his own life. An unused .32 caliber semi-automatic pistol was later found in Sodini's pocket, police said.

"In our opinion, there was nobody in that club that could have done anything that could have prevented Sodini from committing this act," Allegheny County Police Superintendent Charles Moffatt said. "He was hell-bent. ... He just had a lot of hatred in him."

Sodini Left Notes, Circled Class on Calendar

Police found two typed notes in Sodini's bag at the scene, each reflecting his depression and frustration with women. He complained of "never having spent a weekend with a woman" -- a theme shared in chilling blog posts he is reported to have written.

Sodini entered the gym using his membership card around 11 a.m. Tuesday and then left, Moffatt said. He came back around 7:40 p.m. and left again. He returned at 7:56 p.m. and began shooting.

Sodini had apparently targeted the "Latin impact" dance class that was under way when he opened fire. "He had the class schedule with that class circled," Moffat said.

Sodini's Aug. 3 online diary entry, which included a date of death, was full of disturbing musings about religion and his plans for the attack. He noted that he hadn't had a drink since 2:30 on Friday as part of his preparation.

"Total effort needed. Tomorrow is the big day. Unfortunately I talked to my neighbor today, who is very positive and upbeat. I need to remain focused and absorbed COMPLETELY," the diary read. "Last time I tried this, in January, I chickened out."

The diary also indicated that Sodini hadn't had sex since 1990 and that his so-called "practice papers" -- details about the planning of the attack -- are welcome to be published afterward because "maybe all this will shed insight on why some people just cannot make things happen in their life, which can potentially benefit others.

"Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell," Sodini apparently wrote, before adding later, "I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them."

One of the survivors, Mary Primus, was the aerobics class instructor and was 10 weeks pregnant. The class on Tuesday was supposed to be her last session. Primus was shot twice, once in the shoulder, once in the back, and her husband, Alex, said she played dead to save her unborn child.

"It was scary to see her like that but it was good to see that she was awake and breathing right," Alex Primus said in the hospital.

Source (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8274254&page=1)

Not all guys will turn into Sodini, but I couldn't help but recall this story when I read the OP.

[marcroboy]

PUA's arent screwing up men...in fact, the douche bags will just make normal guys look better. :)


great strategy is to send a few PUA out first and piss all the ladies off...then the normal guy steps in to save the day.

LOL. This reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where George said he wished there'd be bunch of pig-men running around so he could look normal.

Seriously, those guys are major tools. I wouldn't even bother with girls that buy into their acts anyways.

[taxman007]

Don't believe in them but they're good for a laugh!

[Wilmega]

Part of being a PUA is being socially aware and to improve your communication skills with women. So your friends prob have no idea what they're doing...cause being a douchebag + PUA does not mix

[mike24]

If the "PUA" program changes the person for the better then thats good. As long as it teaches the guys to be better men then I think it's worth the investment. Although most of these "PUA teachers" are scammers themselves who never had a successful relationship. They may only take your money and leave you with some memorized lines or techniques.

[LaserEnvy]

Stop hanging out with stupid people! How can he throw that much money into a scam like that?

[pablonutribar]

For those of you unaware, PUA refers to "Pick up artistry" AKA people taking courses and attending conferences to learn how to pick up women...

I have on friend who is really into this. I think he takes it to the extreme. Last time we went out to a club (several months ago...I stopped hanging with this guy because of his newfound PUA attitude) he basically approached every woman in sight and wouldn't leave one girl alone and was asked to leave the club...LOL Prior to this me and my GF at the time ran into him at bar with a bunch of his PUA buddies, and one the D'Bags started spewing some idiotic generic lines at my GF and even told me to stop "cock-blocking" him...we got a good laugh out of it but a pretty akward situation to say the least

Opinions? Thoughts? Experiences?

If you're that creepy dude that gets kicked out of clubs for stalking girls, the PUA shtick isn't working very well.

Also, why would you hang out with a guy that cracks on your girlfriend?? You are the company that you keep, mate.

[mike24]

Stop hanging out with stupid people! How can he throw that much money into a scam like that?

Maybe the guy is an engineer.

[45ED]

Maybe the guy is an engineer.

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/image.php?u=28450&dateline=1153101073

[M-e-X-x]

PUA's arent screwing up men...in fact, the douche bags will just make normal guys look better. :)


great strategy is to send a few PUA out first and piss all the ladies off...then the normal guy steps in to save the day.

LOL i've done that before too, the saving the day.

[BornRuff]

It's really skewed his ideas about women and made him a really strange guy, so I wonder, does PUA screw a lot of people up like this? Even if its only 1 in 10 guys, thats still alot of harm this stuff is doing...I admire that people are trying to better themselves, but some of the stuff these guys do is just idiotic

Opinions? Thoughts? Experiences?

It's nowhere near 1 in 10. Maybe at sketchy clubs there are lots, but probably less than 0.01% of men are actually buying into this.

[smolek]

Part of being a PUA is being socially aware and to improve your communication skills with women. So your friends prob have no idea what they're doing...cause being a douchebag + PUA does not mixThis makes sense. Doesn't seem like he is picking up any of these skills though...

Stop hanging out with stupid people! How can he throw that much money into a scam like that?LOL ya I pretty much haven't spoken to him in quite a while because of the way he has changed for the worse

If you're that creepy dude that gets kicked out of clubs for stalking girls, the PUA shtick isn't working very well.

Also, why would you hang out with a guy that cracks on your girlfriend?? You are the company that you keep, mate.nah it wasn't him, it was one of his PUA friends, but ya me and him do not hangout anymore anyway

It's nowhere near 1 in 10. Maybe at sketchy clubs there are lots, but probably less than 0.01% of men are actually buying into this.I meant to say 1 in 10 people take this PUA stuff to the extreme and start acting like my friend. I have no idea how popular this stuff is, but I assume you are right in saying 0.01% because I haven't come across it too often

[CatFrame]

Girls like confidence. Just be confident in what you say and do around them.

You don't need a PUA course to know that, but a PUA course might help you build your confidence.

[Impossibles]

LOL true but the sad part is this guy is actually decent looking, just socially akward as hell

this stuff hasnt helped that

Well I think that answers your question right there. He was already a wierdo, now he's more of a wierdo or a different kind of wierdo. Its not ruining people, they are the same people as before.

[Ravell76]

The fact that people actually have to take a course for something like this shows they have no confidence/no game! my 2c...

[yucksta]

Men who need to validate themselves through "conquests" or the need to be liked by others are already screwed up. Being a "Pick Up Artist" screams of being a manipulator to have people like you.

This kind of "game" is all about fooling someone into thinking that you are worth being with when underneath it all you're very insecure.

I don't see how courses oriented around that kind of "skill" can be character building or positive, and my opinion is that they probably attract the very desperate. Then again, I am speaking out of ignorance, knowing nothing about them but just going by the title "PUA"..ugh, like really? and that whole incidient with the gym killer guy. Disgusting.

[UrbanPoet]

Men who need to validate themselves through "conquests" or the need to be liked by others are already screwed up. Being a "Pick Up Artist" screams of being a manipulator to have people like you.

This kind of "game" is all about fooling someone into thinking that you are worth being with when underneath it all you're very insecure.

I don't see how courses oriented can be character building or positive, and my opinion is that they probably attract the desperate. Then again, I am speaking out of ignorance, knowing nothing about them but just going by the title "PUA"..ugh, like really?

I think its more as a path to self improvement...

Kinda like the movie "Hitch" Staring Will Smith. He was a pick up artist... Much like the ones made famous on TV... like keys to the VIP etc... Some people have to improve themselves in this way in order to find "the one".

But then again some people use these (or try to use but fail miserably) techniques in a douche bag way.

[yucksta]

I think its more as a path to self improvement...

Kinda like the movie "Hitch" Staring Will Smith. He was a pick up artist... Much like the ones made famous on TV... like keys to the VIP etc... Some people have to improve themselves in this way in order to find "the one".

But then again some people use these (or try to use but fail miserably) techniques in a douche bag way.

Maybe like I said, the first I heard of it was after the Sodini guy shot up the gym and they said he attended a course like that. Creepy and very disturbing.

[Ziggy007]

I would say pick-up artistry is for all the d-bags who can't get girls, so they overcompensate with some stupid program.

What is wrong with going over to a girl with a drink and a smile? Seems to work more often than not for me anyway...

[UrbanPoet]

Maybe like I said, the first I heard of it was after the Sodini guy shot up the gym and they said he attended a course like that. Creepy and very disturbing.

strange case indeed...
I thought he was a decent looking guy (no homo) for his age.
http://raincoaster.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/george-sodini.jpg?w=500&h=666

[nuberific]

The fact that people actually have to take a course for something like this shows they have no confidence/no game! my 2c...

Yes.. clearly. That's the whole point. They go there to get game and confidence.

That's like saying, people that take self defense classes clearly don't feel confident in protecting themselves and have no defense skills!

[stealth]

I dont know if PUA is screwing up men, but I have strong suspicions that the food industry is trying to turn me gay with products such as baby carrots and miniature potatos.

[angekfire]

Taking one of these classes can be helpful I guess, sometimes. To pick up, you have to be confident, and if you aren't, then you need to at least act like you are. Pretend to be confident long enough, and eventually it won't be an act anymore, you will actually become confident.

If this class is what it takes to become confident and improve yourself, then go for it. But do it for yourself, not for other people.

[weedb0y]

If it helps them become more confident - that will help them throughout their life. Unfortunately, for insecure personalities, it gets to their head and over-inflates the ego, which becomes a turn off.

[Phr3sh]

lol I laugh at the title of this topic

PUA is nothing more than a theory...and chances are if you let something like this consume you, there was something wrong with you in the first place

[oeketer]

I think that all this PUA stuff has its place...much like most of the self-help products and courses of the early 90s. Its a way for people to learn social skills and learn how to be confident with themselves, or learn skills in order to increase their confidence level.

Just like the self-help movement, it can be taken way out of context and taken way to seriously. Its one thing to take a course to better yourself, and use the skills in all facets of your life. Its a completely other thing to take these courses thinking its going to get you laid every night of the week.

[grego9198]

I had a friend in 2nd year that was heavy into this. I actually went to one of his meetings to see what it was all about. One was enough for me, it was a little too weird for my liking. He ended up dropping out of Engineering that year, I'm thinking that his dedication to pickup helped with that.

The confidence building (inner-game) part itself is fine, but some of the techniques employed are a bit questionable. The cocky comedy aspect is what people tend to overemphasize turning them into douches.

Now whenever I hear about PUA I think of that guy from 2nd year and Howard Wolowitz from the big bang theory (awesome show):

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/ilovetowatch/97631_D0165b.jpg

[fashionelle1]

All i can say is...What.the.bleep: (the hubby and I gets the chuckleswhenever we watch K2tVIP.. LOL :lol:)

Keys to the VIP Faxe vs Cajun

part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unn4IgQMpxM

part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivnXzgFIEvM

part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF1nyY7e5j0

part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RfqvL8ejas

[chickenbones]

I think he read the book "The Game" and taking it literally.

What he's doing is a numbers game, you said he has 200+ numbers, if he gets with 5% of these women that's 10. Not bad if you ask me.

Again it's not about how many reject you, it's about the 1 or 2 that says yes :lol:

[Quiggie]

I wonder if there are any PUA seminars for women?

[JK_85]

I wouldn't pass judgment on an entire "group" of people based on the actions of a select few.

Redflagdeals is ruining people because they storm best buy with their price matching strategies, etc. blah blah

[UrbanPoet]

I wonder if there are any PUA seminars for women?

no such thing and no need.
Even if you are fat, ugly and disgusting... eventually someone will go for you.

Just like at the beach... I always see some fattttt white girl... holding hands with some really ripped black guy. lolz

[LandmineSalesman]

that gym shooting guy had major issues...I read his blog before it was taken down. He was a 50 year old man who was seeking a relationship with a young 20 year old women. He said women didn't look at him and talked about his neighbor having a hot young girlfriend etc. His writing basically conveyed that he couldn't find a young hot "gold digger" (Donald Trumps wife/that playboy CEO who hangs around with young women).

His case didn't have anything to do with PUA. He was depressed and basically a loser.

[tebore]

no such thing and no need.
Even if you are fat, ugly and disgusting... eventually someone will go for you.

Just like at the beach... I always see some fattttt white girl... holding hands with some really ripped black guy. lolz

Don't you know? Fat chicks try harder. As for the black guy part... You know the saying once you go black you don't go back. I'm sure some of those fat chicks are fat because they've popped out a kid or two.

As for the OP, I'm surprised you even let the guy who was spewing lines at your girl get away with it. Forget PUA he would have been DOA if that happened.

[45ED]

no such thing and no need.
Even if you are fat, ugly and disgusting... eventually someone will go for you.

Just like at the beach... I always see some fattttt white girl... holding hands with some really ripped black guy. lolz

That is because they like big butts and they cannot lie.

[bigredlemon]

That is because they like big butts and they cannot lie.

And this you other brothers can't deny.