Fraud Under $5000

[xchodax]

So a friend of mine got caught with 2 counts of fraud under $5000 dollars (yea he's an idiot, I know) at his work place and he has no idea what to do.

Apparently a police officer came to his house to get his side of the story and he (my friend) didn't give much information since he wanted to consult a lawyer first. The officer left with charging him with one count of fraud under $5000 dollars and calls back to charge him with another count.

The officer said there was a number he could call for a free lawyer but never gave him the number.

I don't really want to get into details because I'm not sure if he would want me too but, does anyone know that "free lawyer" number? I tried googling it but there were way too many results with too many numbers and I don't know which one to give him.

And does anyone have any experience with this sort of stuff and tell me what he should expect? It should be his first time dealing with the law, but should he expect jail time or a huge bill?

Hopefully he won't fake a kidnapping over this. ;)


EDIT: This was in Toronto


New Questions :
So I met up with my friend today and spent most of the day contacting lawyers and trying to see what his punishment may be. Most of them seemed pretty helpful and genuinely caring.

The problem is that a lot of these lawyers are extremely expensive and due to his family's financial situation I dont think they would be able to afford these types of lawyers.

There were one or two that seemed to have a payment plan of some sort or seemed a bit flexible with pricing, so he's going to meet up with a few of those lawyers tmr.

Does anyone know if he can some how qualify for financial aid? Or if there's a different route he can take, I did a bit of researching this morning, and was wondering if he could have a lawyer provided to him from the court? or If he use find a public defender? Could he just show up to court himself and have the court get him a lawyer or may be represent himself?

And we spoke to a couple of lawyers and they sort of hinted that he may have to show up to court on more than one occassion?

[MadameKelebek]

What city are you in? That would help....

[Lauzy]

Without knowing the facts, it is hard to say what he should expect...

What exactly did he do to end up in this predicament?

[thelefteyeguy]

Without knowing the facts, it is hard to say what he should expect...

What exactly did he do to end up in this predicament?

his legal council whispered in his ear and told him not to answer that...

[ariell]

Geez, TWO counts of fraud under $5000 at his workplace??? >:( What a tool. Did he work at IBM? :twisted: The cop was probably talking about LegalAid. Check here for details (in Ontario): http://www.legalaid.on.ca/en/getting/

[xchodax]

Without knowing the facts, it is hard to say what he should expect...

What exactly did he do to end up in this predicament?

Apparently he stole money by making unauthorized refunds onto his credit card. I'm not completely sure if this is in fact what he had done, but that's what his mama tells me. My friend should be doing this himself but apparently he's so shaken up about the whole situation that he can't even speak properly.

[gman]

Without knowing the facts, it is hard to say what he should expect...

What exactly did he do to end up in this predicament?

May be giving somebody else's credit card to his girl friend. :D

[Broseph]

If you have the proper resources and enough cash I can guarantee you he'll get zero jail time. This is going to cost him a lot of money though.

[ariell]

Apparently he stole money by making unauthorized refunds onto his credit card. I'm not completely sure if this is in fact what he had done, but that's what his mama tells me. My friend should be doing this himself but apparently he's so shaken up about the whole situation that he can't even speak properly.

Aww really? Boo hoo. :rolleyes: I'd be pretty shaken up too if I just defrauded my company out of $10K

[gman]

I guess 2 counts under $5000 is better than 1 count over $5000.

[bkustra]

Alternatively, the officer might have been referring to the Lawyer Referral Service.

http://www.lsuc.on.ca/public/a/faqs---lawyer-referral-service/

For $6, the LRS will provide the name of a lawyer who will provide a free consultation of up to 30 minutes to help you determine your rights and options.

[mkerian]

Your "friend"is a moron. He should go to jail, but if he has a clean record than he could probably swing a fine on the condition of a guilty plea.

But I'm not a lawyer so take my advice with a grain of salt. In fact, why the heck do people ask for legal advice on RFD? :confused::confused::confused:

Just call a real life lawyer to help your "friend".

Apparently he stole money by making unauthorized refunds onto his credit card. I'm not completely sure if this is in fact what he had done, but that's what his mama tells me. My friend should be doing this himself but apparently he's so shaken up about the whole situation that he can't even speak properly.

His mama should let her son deal with the consequences. Time to grow up.

[gman]

His mama should let her son deal with the consequences. Time to grow up.

How did you gather that his mother does not let her son to deal with the consequence?

[pintobean]

Aww really? Boo hoo. :rolleyes: I'd be pretty shaken up too if I just defrauded my company out of $10K
The charge is fraud under $5000, which means it could simply be an instance of him refunding $20 to his own credit card. Either way, it was a pretty stupid thing to do, and he deserves to be shaken up about it.

Having said that, I know someone who used to work in a call centre for a major credit card company, and I was told that this sort of fraud actually used to be quite common amongst the high-level employees. They would somehow issue credits to their own credit cards which would give them credit balances and then later on they'd buy stuff on the credit card and not have to make any payments due to the credit balances.

[jeye]

I know people who have been charged with fraud under $5000, they all got served with a certain amount of hours of community service, stays on their record, no fines...the only hassle is the annoying court hearings and paying the lawyer. (it was their first offence also).

[Canuck32]

I practice criminal law in Toronto. The number the police officer was referring to is for duty counsel. This is a free service, funded by Legal Aid Ontario, that is available to assist by telephone when one is arrested (this service I believe is contracted out, but is still staffed by lawyers) and at court to assist with bail hearings, setting dates, and to provide general legal advice (not trials).

While I don't know the number off-hand, and am unsure if they would assist after a charge has been laid, there are plenty of lawyers that will provide a free consultation. I would be happy to do this as well.

As for the boycott, it is limited to homicides and guns and gangs cases, at least for now.

[Canuck32]

I know people who have been charged with fraud under $5000, they all got served with a certain amount of hours of community service, stays on their record, no fines...the only hassle is the annoying court hearings and paying the lawyer. (it was their first offence also).

Every case is fact-specific. The sentence possibilities for a charge like this vary greatly.

[ariell]

The charge is fraud under $5000, which means it could simply be an instance of him refunding $20 to his own credit card. Either way, it was a pretty stupid thing to do, and he deserves to be shaken up about it.


Yes thank you, I can read. It's also entirely possible that he refunded $4999 to his credit card. In either case, he's an idiot and gets no sympathy from me.

[flexwong]

the cop was probably talking about legal aid.

[randomdef]

Your "friend"is a moron. He should go to jail, but if he has a clean record than he could probably swing a fine on the condition of a guilty plea.

But I'm not a lawyer so take my advice with a grain of salt. In fact, why the heck do people ask for legal advice on RFD? :confused::confused::confused:

Just call a real life lawyer to help your "friend".



His mama should let her son deal with the consequences. Time to grow up.

wow, really? you know NONE of the detail but he should go to jail??

uninformed and ignorant, congrats! you win the internet!

[xchodax]

edit: Posted on the original post

[UrbanPoet]

I was just wondering... what kind of punishment is he looking at for such crimes? lol

[Canuck32]

Does anyone know if he can some how qualify for financial aid? Or if there's a different route he can take, I did a bit of researching this morning, and was wondering if he could have a lawyer provided to him from the court? or If he use find a public defender? Could he just show up to court himself and have the court get him a lawyer or may be represent himself?

Ontario does not have public defender's in the same way you see in the United States. The court will not appoint a lawyer (except under some very specific circumstances). If your friend were to qualify for a legal aid certificate, he would then be able to hire the lawyer of his choosing to represent him on the certificate.

To qualify for legal aid, one must meet certain financial criteria and be facing a charge where custody is a likely disposition. The financial threshold that diqualifies one from legal aid is extremely low, thus resulting in many people who make well under an average income still not qualifying for a certificate. Legal aid will also consider other means to access funds (such as assets) and whether someone is unemployed by choice.

Duty counsel is available to assist with administrative court dates. They may be able to assist with a guilty plea, but will not do trials.


And we spoke to a couple of lawyers and they sort of hinted that he may have to show up to court on more than one occassion?

That is correct. An Accused person will appear periodically in court until such a time as the charge is disposed of (withdrawal/stay, plea, or trial). Until a plea or trial, appearances are generally of an administrative nature. They are used to ensure disclosure is complete, conduct Crown and judicial pre-trials, set dates for trial, etc.

[xchodax]

would my friend be able to get a job? Obviously he won't be able to get a job where he's around money or anything like that..

but would he be able to work for a factory or construction? He needs a job if he wants to be able to afford a lawyer.

[Canuck32]

would my friend be able to get a job? Obviously he won't be able to get a job where he's around money or anything like that..

but would he be able to work for a factory or construction? He needs a job if he wants to be able to afford a lawyer.

Persons accused of criminal offences in Canada are innocent until proven guilty. While it's true that a fraud conviction may hinder certain types of employment, at this point these charges are just allegations.

[bubble.tea]

... I was told that this sort of fraud actually used to be quite common amongst the high-level employees. They would somehow issue credits to their own credit cards which would give them credit balances and then later on they'd buy stuff on the credit card and not have to make any payments due to the credit balances.
Good Heavens. I've been missing out!

Time to befriend some people at CITI and AMEX :lol:.


...congrats! you win the internet!
awww shucks. I wuz hoping to with teh intrnetz first.

...The financial threshold that diqualifies one from legal aid is extremely low, thus resulting in many people who make well under an average income still not qualifying for a certificate. ...
ouch. That's brutal.