Mid-efficiency furnace sales stop Dec.31/09

[dfatcat]

Does anyone know if Department of Natural Resources proposal to ban the sale of mid efficiency furnaces is a definite go? Proposed sales stopped after Dec 31, 2009. After this date, only high-efficiency furnaces can be installed. Here's NRCAN's proposal:
http://oee.nrcan-rncan.gc.ca/regulations/bulletin/gas-furnace-mar2007.cfm?attr=8

I've received a couple of quotes, and both installers have recommended a mid-efficiency furnace over high within my townhouse due to additional installation costs. If anyone else has a townhouse or small house, and an older furnace, I'd advise looking into a new mid-efficiency furnace before the deadline.

And on a personal rant, why wouldn't they make this mandatory only on new construction? Retrofits should be grandfathered! What a way to stimulate the HVAC industry?

[indebted]

It's a done deal, no longer a proposal. Has been for months.

As of the end of the year, mid eff will no longer be manufactured or sold in Canada.

[Pete_Coach]

You are being sold a bill of goods by the salesperson if they told you the installation costs are so much higher for high efficiency. He is just trying to get rid of his old stock.
Yes, you need fresh air intake and an exhaust for the high efficiency furnace but they can run the liner up the chimney for this if they cannot find an outside wall close enough. A bit more in price but not much. My installer said if I wanted to do that, It would cost and extra $400.
The guy who told you this is blowing the exhaust alright, but not up your chimney.

[bionicbadger]

that also means that the incentives/rebates for high efficiency furnaces will most likely go away too since the only choice you will have is high efficiency.

[dfatcat]

If it was one installer, I could agree. But two, and well recommended? I'm not an HVAC guy Pete, so hey, it could be easy enough to pull the wool over my eyes. They've both indicated a reworking of ducting would be required. Plus additional chimney liner and a condensate pump which is ballpark to the extra $400 you state. I suppose each install is different, but in my case, the extra costs associated with installation of a HEF do not appear to offset the savings in energy for the lifetime of the furnace. Not including my assumption that HEF have greater maintenace costs, based on more moving parts + moisture. (Feel free to prove me right or wrong on this assumption - I can't find any documentation proving one way or another.)

Honestly, if your installer can do a quality install at a cheaper price, tell him to come down to Edmonton - after he's done your furnace. Come the new year, he'd be busy!

[rf134a]

My Lennox 90% furnace uses several meters of pvc pipe to move the water instead of using a pump. My installer even routed the pipe around the back of the furnace instead of just to the ground and to my drain 1.5m away so that it's not a tripping hazard. The drain for the humidifier goes into a t-valve in the drain line. The ducting was changed by deleting the chimney and installing a direct vent intake and exhaust. A makeup air box was installed but he suggested that I partially close it since the furnace has it's own intake/exhaust. The direct vent hot water heater may need makeup combustion air but the house should provide sufficient air. Of course, the partially open makeup air box should provide sufficient venting/pressurization.

[Pete_Coach]

If it was one installer, I could agree. But two, and well recommended? I'm not an HVAC guy Pete, so hey, it could be easy enough to pull the wool over my eyes. They've both indicated a reworking of ducting would be required. Plus additional chimney liner and a condensate pump which is ballpark to the extra $400 you state. I suppose each install is different, but in my case, the extra costs associated with installation of a HEF do not appear to offset the savings in energy for the lifetime of the furnace. Not including my assumption that HEF have greater maintenace costs, based on more moving parts + moisture. (Feel free to prove me right or wrong on this assumption - I can't find any documentation proving one way or another.)

Honestly, if your installer can do a quality install at a cheaper price, tell him to come down to Edmonton - after he's done your furnace. Come the new year, he'd be busy!
I am not an HVAC guy either. I just went through the lengthy arduous purchasing process myself and had a HEF and A/C installed at my place and heard several different installation options from all the sales persons as well. One thing I did learn after some sales guy said to get and others said I didn't need one was that a condensate pump is needed only if there is no way for the condensation that is produced by the furnace to be removed by gravity. If they tell you it has to be pumped somewhere, ask them why it cannot just drain to the floor. In the end, I did not need one, it was an upsell.
In my case, they decided to just use PVC for intake and exhaust after I questioned them hard as to why they wanted to install a new liner.
A HEF has actually less moving parts and most manufacturers are giving a 10 year parts and labour warranty, well OK, maybe not most but some are, my Lennox did. An HEF actually uses much less electricity as well as gas.
When it came down to it and I had made a decision on the brand of furnace I wanted, I called a number of the dealers in town and had them come and give apples to apples quotes. They then gave me the choices that I could compare, for the product as well as the installation. I then also looked at the company and it's record. As many will tell you, the installation is a huge portion of the buying process. Each one of the dealers/installers should nbe able to provide you with options for the installations and if they cannot, perhaps they are not the ones you should deal with.
In my recent experience, making price comparisons between brands is near impossible. Just too many variables to make a real knowledgeable decision.