Investment Banking: What to do while in university?

[jjfz3000]

I want to go into investment banking and then eventually into fund management.

What should I do as a current commerce student in an university?

[pitz]

Pray.

[williamsauga]

study

[B0000rt]

I want to go into investment banking and then eventually into fund management.

What should I do as a current commerce student in an university?

Hahah Fund Management hahah, might as well try to win the lottery because your odds will be just as good (or bad I should say)

Either way the two above posts are correct, pray and study.

[pitz]

Seriously though, all the glut of people aside...is there going to be much room for qualitative fund management in the future?

Or will most fund investment be done on a quant basis, ie: through carefully crafted indicies, hard quantitative criteria, ETFs, etc.?

There's plenty of evidence that qualitative managers, on average, do not create alpha, and in fact, often destroy value relative to the 'market' once their expenses are paid.

Its no mistake that the biggest index fund (and largest mutual fund) in Canada has received absolutely massive inflows in the past year. People are absolutely sick and tired of qualitative managers charging them for the priviledge of receiving negative alpha after management expenses are paid. This doesn't bode well for employment in the active management industry at all.

[BornRuff]

Seriously though, all the glut of people aside...is there going to be much room for qualitative fund management in the future?

Or will most fund investment be done on a quant basis, ie: through carefully crafted indicies, hard quantitative criteria, ETFs, etc.?

There's plenty of evidence that qualitative managers, on average, do not create alpha, and in fact, often destroy value relative to the 'market' once their expenses are paid.

Its no mistake that the biggest index fund (and largest mutual fund) in Canada has received absolutely massive inflows in the past year. People are absolutely sick and tired of qualitative managers charging them for the priviledge of receiving negative alpha after management expenses are paid. This doesn't bode well for employment in the active management industry at all.

I wouldn't be so sure. People have been talking about active managers being out preformed by the market for a long time, though they still seem to get lots of business.

While ETF's do tend to out preform actively managed funds in the long term, many people simply do not have the stomach for the volatility. Most people also do not want to have to constantly monitor their investments themselves.

Also, most FA's get paid on commission from selling products, and they generally get a higher commission from selling these actively managed funds. Most people who walk into a FA's office are going to walk out with whatever makes the FA the most money, so actively managed funds certainly will be around in the future.

[pitz]

I wouldn't be so sure. People have been talking about active managers being out preformed by the market for a long time, though they still seem to get lots of business.


I don't have numbers handy, but I'm pretty sure most of Canada's independant fund companies have suffered net outflows for the past decade. The big banks (especially RY and TD), and the BGI iShares attracting many of the inflows. iShares is obviously a quant strategy (ie: indexxing), and the RY funds that have been popular are the quant-based "O'Shaugnessy" funds I understand.


While ETF's do tend to out preform actively managed funds in the long term, many people simply do not have the stomach for the volatility. Most people also do not want to have to constantly monitor their investments themselves.


I understand the argument, and I'm not trying to enter into that debate. But is active management growing in Canada? The sort of management that requires highly paid 'fund managers'? From what I've seen, the answer is no -- quant strategies are attracting most of the assets.

And as for volatility, ETFs are perhaps only more volatile because they are fully invested. That's not a reflection of the fund manager's skill, but rather, reflects the fund manager holding or not holding non-volatile assets, ie: cash, short-term bonds, etc.


Also, most FA's get paid on commission from selling products, and they generally get a higher commission from selling these actively managed funds. Most people who walk into a FA's office are going to walk out with whatever makes the FA the most money, so actively managed funds certainly will be around in the future.

Absolutely, although, someone who's been in a typical 2.5% MER'ed investment for the past decade has lost >30% of their investment just in management fees. Sooner or later, this math is catching up with the industry, hence the spectacular growth of the iShares XIU brand.

Back to the topic of this thread, I wonder if this trend is something that's just short-term, or are more/most Canadian investors in the process of gravitating towards quant or index based products? Is the future that bright for the high-cost active management industry?

[jjfz3000]

Seriously though, all the glut of people aside...is there going to be much room for qualitative fund management in the future?

Or will most fund investment be done on a quant basis, ie: through carefully crafted indicies, hard quantitative criteria, ETFs, etc.?

There's plenty of evidence that qualitative managers, on average, do not create alpha, and in fact, often destroy value relative to the 'market' once their expenses are paid.

Its no mistake that the biggest index fund (and largest mutual fund) in Canada has received absolutely massive inflows in the past year. People are absolutely sick and tired of qualitative managers charging them for the priviledge of receiving negative alpha after management expenses are paid. This doesn't bode well for employment in the active management industry at all.

They get paid mostly on their profits and losses. So there's an incentive for them to do very well.

Quant is useful too, but too many variables to completely forecast the market. Models are too general and require scrutiny by fund managers.

[Takami]

I want to go into investment banking and then eventually into fund management.

What should I do as a current commerce student in an university?

1) Extremely good grades, 3.7/4.0 min.
2) Prove to MD that you can work 110 hours a week with 1-2 free Sundays per 3 months
3) Ability to take a lot of sheit from other people
4) Willing to work for less than a manager at McDonald at a per hour basis


Has anyone pointed out to the OP that IB and AM may not necessarily related?

I work for an AM shop and a lot of managers there didn't have an IB background. Most people start in buy side equity research for X years until they move into become portfolio managers. Quite a few IBer goes into private equity though because of their deal making abilities.

Most of the Equity Research people related to IB are on the sell side. I'm sure that they could switch to the buy side if they want, but they might need to take some compromise.

[BornRuff]

I don't have numbers handy, but I'm pretty sure most of Canada's independant fund companies have suffered net outflows for the past decade. The big banks (especially RY and TD), and the BGI iShares attracting many of the inflows. iShares is obviously a quant strategy (ie: indexxing), and the RY funds that have been popular are the quant-based "O'Shaugnessy" funds I understand.

If you can find numbers on that it would be interesting to see. Certainly all the new technology that has allowed people to be more hands on with their investments has caused some movement away from people simply trusting their money with the experts, though it would be interesting to see exactly how much.

I understand the argument, and I'm not trying to enter into that debate. But is active management growing in Canada? The sort of management that requires highly paid 'fund managers'? From what I've seen, the answer is no -- quant strategies are attracting most of the assets.

And as for volatility, ETFs are perhaps only more volatile because they are fully invested. That's not a reflection of the fund manager's skill, but rather, reflects the fund manager holding or not holding non-volatile assets, ie: cash, short-term bonds, etc.

Actively managed funds don't need to be growing to still be around in 100 years. They are unquestionably a very large part of our financial industry, and I don't see them going anywhere soon.

(disclaimer, I am not arguing that active management is better) As for volatility, actively managed funds are less volatile because of their ability to analyze the situation and make changes in their investments. If you were in an ETF focusing on financials before the big crash, as the crash got worse and worse, you would have stayed along for the entire ride. If you were in an actively managed mutual fund, they would have at some point decided to get out. Funds lost a lot less money than ETFs in the crash, because they are able to mitigate losses, hedge their investments, and get the hell out of the stocks if it really comes down to it.

Absolutely, although, someone who's been in a typical 2.5% MER'ed investment for the past decade has lost >30% of their investment just in management fees. Sooner or later, this math is catching up with the industry, hence the spectacular growth of the iShares XIU brand.

Back to the topic of this thread, I wonder if this trend is something that's just short-term, or are more/most Canadian investors in the process of gravitating towards quant or index based products? Is the future that bright for the high-cost active management industry?

While MER's have historically been high in Canada, the trend is towards lower costs. One of the main reasons they have given for the higher costs is that the funds are smaller. The market is really opening up though, which is pushing costs down.

I think in the future, active management will still be around simply because there will always be people who want to make money without having to actually do any of the work themselves.

[PennyArcade]

Let's get this thread back on topic

First thing is why do you want to go into investment banking? Money? Challenge? You better love it or the perspective employer will see right through your veiled interest and ding you.

First and foremost is they want you to be passionate about investment banking. To show passion, do things that an investment banker would do:


Follow the general market closely
Pick a sector that you are interested in and follow the trends
In that sector, do an analysis on a few companies based off of their 10K and follow them
Think of where the price of each stock will go with incoming news
compare your findings with analyst reports from various sources


Lots of work, huh? Well, this type of effort will show the firms that you are ready to put in the time, even though you aren't getting paid.

But, how do you get the interview to show my passion? My resume cannot show all that analysis that I've done.
That's a good question. This is where a few things that you can put on your resume that can get you an interview:


Great marks. Should be upper 10% of your class... at least.
Pass the CFA level 1 exam. This will show them that you have taken the first steps to becoming a banker.
Be part of the executive team of your investment club or finance club. This will also show initiative.


There are other things that you can do to get the interview that are not part of the resume. The best thing to do is to ask your profs if you can talk to someone in IB... preferably in your sector of interest. Get your network going and show them that you have been following the market. If you make an impression, then they will remember you when the recruitment season comes and will likely get at least an interview.

Hope that helps! It is a lot of work, but if you want an IB job, invest some time now and it will show good returns later.

[george benjamin]

This is great advice, and another ridiculously powerful way to show interest is to write about what you want to get into. Start your own blog or write for the 100s of news outlets in the sector you are interested in.

Let's get this thread back on topic

First thing is why do you want to go into investment banking? Money? Challenge? You better love it or the perspective employer will see right through your veiled interest and ding you.

First and foremost is they want you to be passionate about investment banking. To show passion, do things that an investment banker would do:


Follow the general market closely
Pick a sector that you are interested in and follow the trends
In that sector, do an analysis on a few companies based off of their 10K and follow them
Think of where the price of each stock will go with incoming news
compare your findings with analyst reports from various sources


Lots of work, huh? Well, this type of effort will show the firms that you are ready to put in the time, even though you aren't getting paid.

But, how do you get the interview to show my passion? My resume cannot show all that analysis that I've done.
That's a good question. This is where a few things that you can put on your resume that can get you an interview:


Great marks. Should be upper 10% of your class... at least.
Pass the CFA level 1 exam. This will show them that you have taken the first steps to becoming a banker.
Be part of the executive team of your investment club or finance club. This will also show initiative.


There are other things that you can do to get the interview that are not part of the resume. The best thing to do is to ask your profs if you can talk to someone in IB... preferably in your sector of interest. Get your network going and show them that you have been following the market. If you make an impression, then they will remember you when the recruitment season comes and will likely get at least an interview.

Hope that helps! It is a lot of work, but if you want an IB job, invest some time now and it will show good returns later.

[kkvvpp]

start networking

[AirplaneKing]

start networking

+1

Get out there, make connections. Join your finance/investment club at the university. Go to infosessions. Talk to people that are already working as junior analysts. Take em out for a beer or something.

[jjfz3000]

1) Extremely good grades, 3.7/4.0 min.
2) Prove to MD that you can work 110 hours a week with 1-2 free Sundays per 3 months
3) Ability to take a lot of sheit from other people
4) Willing to work for less than a manager at McDonald at a per hour basis


Has anyone pointed out to the OP that IB and AM may not necessarily related?

I work for an AM shop and a lot of managers there didn't have an IB background. Most people start in buy side equity research for X years until they move into become portfolio managers. Quite a few IBer goes into private equity though because of their deal making abilities.

Most of the Equity Research people related to IB are on the sell side. I'm sure that they could switch to the buy side if they want, but they might need to take some compromise.

Hold on. I thought they earn at least 150K with bonuses and other compensation (insurance, company car, hotel subsidies, free food and etc.). So that's at least $26/hour... not $6.75...

First thing is why do you want to go into investment banking? Money? Challenge? You better love it or the perspective employer will see right through your veiled interest and ding you.

Here are my reasons. Please tell me if they are the reasons liked by employers.

1. Prestige. Investment bankers seem to be regarded as smarter than accountants. (no offense)
2. Competition. I like winning and if I pick better stocks than my colleagues then I'm happy. I don't like to do easy stuff where it's either you did it or you didn't.
3. Merit-based structure. Everyone keeps track of their own profits and losses. Promotions are based on performance rather than office politics.
4. Salary. Hey, I like to buy a lot of stuff.
5. Chaos. Things aren't repetitive, market moves chaotically.

[isarobotirl]

If you are at UBC in Sauder DO THIS:

http://www.pmf.sauder.ubc.ca/introduction.cfm

Hardest thing ever to get into but everyone who has done it goes on to BIG THINGS

[jjfz3000]

If you are at UBC in Sauder DO THIS:

http://www.pmf.sauder.ubc.ca/introduction.cfm

Hardest thing ever to get into but everyone who has done it goes on to BIG THINGS

Don't remind me about it. I'm working towards it but I'm trying to keep my hopes low. :(

[adehbone]

Don't remind me about it. I'm working towards it but I'm trying to keep my hopes low. :(

Why Low? That is the wrong attitude. Not in banking, more like make sure you do what you need to get into that program.

Anyways your best bet is to just read, read, and read more. Read the paper everyday, read Buffet, read Klarman, read Liar's Poker, read Monkey Business, read Peter Lynch and just keep reading.

[Takami]

Hold on. I thought they earn at least 150K with bonuses and other compensation (insurance, company car, hotel subsidies, free food and etc.). So that's at least $26/hour... not $6.75...

You are NOT going to see 150K + bonus for a LONG time. Undergrads starts as 1st year Analyst getting approximately 65K to 70K per year in a budge bracket firm (less if you are with a boutique). You are expected to pull 90-110 hours per week and work through Sunday and some holidays.

Now, hopefully you are good at math.

Divide $65,000 by 52 weeks and 100 hours. That is not a lot of money considering that you will need to give up your time with family, friends and significant other.

A 3rd year Analyst or a 1st year Associate with a MBA gets around 90K, but that is nowhere near the 150K that you stated.

As for bonus, it's around 10K in a good year, and that might not come again for while.

Hope that helps.

[jjfz3000]

A McD Manager makes around $12-14/hr?

You are NOT going to see 150K + bonus for a LONG time. Undergrads starts as 1st year Analyst getting approximately 65K to 70K per year in a budge bracket firm (less if you are with a boutique). You are expected to pull 90-110 hours per week and work through Sunday and some holidays.

Now, hopefully you are good at math.

Divide $65,000 by 52 weeks and 100 hours. That is not a lot of money considering that you will need to give up your time with family, friends and significant other.

A 3rd year Analyst or a 1st year Associate with a MBA gets around 90K, but that is nowhere near the 150K that you stated.

As for bonus, it's around 10K in a good year, and that might not come again for while.

Hope that helps.

Ok. Does the 65K include other compensation though? A daily $60 meal allowance is another $22,000. And that's just one compensation.

[Takami]

Ok. Does the 65K include other compensation though? A daily $60 meal allowance is another $22,000. And that's just one compensation.

3 free meals and cab ride home everyday my friend. Most people get a cab ride because the TTC is shut down when they leave work at 2am. That is a small reward for not being with your family, but is it worth it?

Imagine missing your GF/wife's anniversary, or your son's first birthday because you are behind the phone at work with some client that wants something done in 6 hours or else he is going with another firm. If you love IB enough to sacrifice those things, then IB is right for you.

[adehbone]

3 free meals and cab ride home everyday my friend. Most people get a cab ride because the TTC is shut down when they leave home at 2am. That is a small award for not being with your family, but is it worth it?

Why do you care so much? The kid is not even done his first year of university, he has the next 4 to decide if he thinks its worth it.

[DaFonz]

Here are my reasons. Please tell me if they are the reasons liked by employers.

2. Competition. I like winning and if I pick better stocks than my colleagues then I'm happy. I don't like to do easy stuff where it's either you did it or you didn't.
3. Merit-based structure. Everyone keeps track of their own profits and losses. Promotions are based on performance rather than office politics.
5. Chaos. Things aren't repetitive, market moves chaotically.

I think you need to learn a little more about investment banking.

1) There is no picking of stocks in investment banking. You crank out pitch books and spreadsheets.
2) HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No.
3) Investment banking IS repetitive. You crank out pitch books and spreadsheets. If you're lucky, you might get to attend a meeting where your job is to shut up and look interested.

[isarobotirl]

Don't remind me about it. I'm working towards it but I'm trying to keep my hopes low. :(

Yeah this isn't the right attitude. You will make greater connections through this, the dean @ Sauder, Dan Muyzak is a living god when it comes to networking.

[DaFonz]

You are NOT going to see 150K + bonus for a LONG time. Undergrads starts as 1st year Analyst getting approximately 65K to 70K per year in a budge bracket firm (less if you are with a boutique). You are expected to pull 90-110 hours per week and work through Sunday and some holidays.

Now, hopefully you are good at math.

Divide $65,000 by 52 weeks and 100 hours. That is not a lot of money considering that you will need to give up your time with family, friends and significant other.

A 3rd year Analyst or a 1st year Associate with a MBA gets around 90K, but that is nowhere near the 150K that you stated.

As for bonus, it's around 10K in a good year, and that might not come again for while.


*sigh*.

First off, not all boutiques pay less than BBs. Some pay less, some pay more.

Second, where are you getting your bonus numbers from? The worst years were in 2001-2003 where the bonuses for 1st year analysts ranged from $15-30k.

In a good year, bonuses exceed 100% of your salary.

Again, this is investment banking, not some back office job where $10k might be a "good" bonus.

[Takami]

*sigh*.

First off, not all boutiques pay less than BBs. Some pay less, some pay more.

Second, where are you getting your bonus numbers from? The worst year was

Just from former classmates and co-workers.

You're right, some boutiques pays more, some even have less hours. But my belief is that if your firm is on the top of the tombstone, you can't get there by having your people take every Sunday off and paying them (real) slave wages.

[jjfz3000]

3 free meals and cab ride home everyday my friend. Most people get a cab ride because the TTC is shut down when they leave work at 2am. That is a small reward for not being with your family, but is it worth it?

Imagine missing your GF/wife's anniversary, or your son's first birthday because you are behind the phone at work with some client that wants something done in 6 hours or else he is going with another firm. If you love IB enough to sacrifice those things, then IB is right for you.

I'm going to try to do this ASAP after university... so having children won't be an immediate problem. I guess I don't know much about keeping my girlfriend. Maybe she'll leave me. But, that's probably unavoidable.

[Takami]

The worst years were in 2001-2003 where the bonuses for 1st year analysts ranged from $15-30k.

In a good year, bonuses exceed 100% of your salary.

Again, this is investment banking, not some back office job where $10k might be a "good" bonus.

One of us is smoking some good shiet here.

[Takami]

I'm going to try to do this ASAP after university... so having children won't be an immediate problem. I guess I don't know much about keeping my girlfriend. Maybe she'll leave me. But, that's probably unavoidable.

I would recommend you to consider taking a summer internship with a major i-bank. I have spent one summer with an investment bank a while back and it was a real eye-opener. Some of my former colleagues went through with it in the end, but there was also a handful that backed out. The people can be extremely nasty and the culture was cut throat. I stopped talking to one of the 3rd year analyst who thought they could boss anyone around, while managing to suck up to the MD's like sugar canes.

The thing is, you might not like it, and there are many other occupations that will lead to a good future and sufficient salary.

Another thing to point out is that this financial crisis we are in has shifted the playing field of the financial institutions. In the M&A side, PE is a dying as LBOs are becoming difficult with such tight credits. The number of deals and IPOs have also shrunk a lot this year and people are not as certain about bringing a company public during bad times.

[ji_howa]

I want to go into investment banking and then eventually into fund management.

What should I do as a current commerce student in an university?

Network, Study, get some experience through internships, and kiss a lot of ass

[at1212b]

Internships obviously help, but killer marks (not necessarily a business degree), likely a quantitative based degree and aptitude probably helps alot, ability to communicate, not to come across ignorant, and later on, getting into a good MBA school (likely US based).

Either way, a investment banker to 'fund manager' isn't a traditional route from what I can see. Its helluva competitive and challenging in both as you're competing against the most motivated (if you thought you were hard-working, there are people out there that are machines) and brightest (they may actually know, or not, but they sure convince themselves and those around they do) all the time getting along (personality fit is extremely important) in the right way with the Analysts/Managing Directors/Partners/Portfolio managers.

Make sure to develop really thick skin (such as not taking anything too personally on this forum), because when the pressure gets turned up, it can get nasty and intense.

At the end of the day, you have to convince people (whether its your boss, peers, organization, clients) that you can be taken seriously in regards to money. The very thing that drives us all both logically and emotionally. That requires a myriad of traits to develop and master.

[resu]

1. Prestige. Investment bankers seem to be regarded as smarter than accountants. (no offense)
2. Competition. I like winning and if I pick better stocks than my colleagues then I'm happy. I don't like to do easy stuff where it's either you did it or you didn't.
3. Merit-based structure. Everyone keeps track of their own profits and losses. Promotions are based on performance rather than office politics.
4. Salary. Hey, I like to buy a lot of stuff.
5. Chaos. Things aren't repetitive, market moves chaotically.

Sounds more like trading, not IBD...

[george benjamin]

Those are very bad reasons. I thought you were kidding, but you're actually serious.

[unowned]

you're not even done your first year of university, survive the first two, then see where you are at. For all you know, you might realize that you actually suck at school.

Good luck :)

[AirplaneKing]

Sounds more like trading, not IBD...

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. You don't pick stocks if you're an investment banker; most often you're trying to sell stocks to institutional investors and public markets. And on the chaos side, things get very repetitive as analyst. VERY repetitive.

[jackwest]

Hold on. I thought they earn at least 150K with bonuses and other compensation (insurance, company car, hotel subsidies, free food and etc.). So that's at least $26/hour... not $6.75...



Here are my reasons. Please tell me if they are the reasons liked by employers.

1. Prestige. Investment bankers seem to be regarded as smarter than accountants. (no offense)
2. Competition. I like winning and if I pick better stocks than my colleagues then I'm happy. I don't like to do easy stuff where it's either you did it or you didn't.
3. Merit-based structure. Everyone keeps track of their own profits and losses. Promotions are based on performance rather than office politics.
4. Salary. Hey, I like to buy a lot of stuff.
5. Chaos. Things aren't repetitive, market moves chaotically.

fail

become a trades and earn 30/hour instead of being a b**** for 26 with no overtime and 90 hour weeks.

[aac85]

*sigh*.

First off, not all boutiques pay less than BBs. Some pay less, some pay more.

Second, where are you getting your bonus numbers from? The worst years were in 2001-2003 where the bonuses for 1st year analysts ranged from $15-30k.

In a good year, bonuses exceed 100% of your salary.

Again, this is investment banking, not some back office job where $10k might be a "good" bonus.

you are correct sir

but takami, you might want to check your sources...

and to OP, let us know when you snap back into reality. your dream sounds awfully good :)

[jjfz3000]

Hold on.

There's a difference between Asset Management and Investment Banking?

What about being an equity researcher at an investment bank like Goldman Sachs?

[LaymanX]

Hold on.

There's a difference between Asset Management and Investment Banking?

What about being an equity researcher at an investment bank like Goldman Sachs?

Well, the CFA is a pretty core requirement for equity researchers. As well, you gotta understand.. there are a LOT of experienced analysts out there looking for work, with MBA's, CFA's, MFin's, etc etc. especially in the US.

It is extremely hard for new grads to get into the business right now. Moreso if you lack motivation and determination. There's been a lot of good advice on this thread already.. ie. start a blog, network. I would add that you should probably read a lot more books on the subject matter, as you don't seem to be able to distinguish between asset managers and ibankers. (no offense!)

[sardaukar]

Hold on.

There's a difference between Asset Management and Investment Banking?


This guy really has no idea whatsoever, doesn't he :D

[two_std_deviation]

This guy really has no idea whatsoever, doesn't he :D

He doesn't even know how to use google and yet he's going to be doing perfect pitchbooks and valuations at 3 AM Sunday morning because the client wants it for an 8 AM emergency board meeting before the merger is announced on Monday.

Get your GPA as high as possible and you can do anything you want.
If you're serious about IB or trading, learn what they are, and then get an internship for next summer in the one you actually think you want.

[DaFonz]

Hold on.

There's a difference between Asset Management and Investment Banking?

What about being an equity researcher at an investment bank like Goldman Sachs?

*face palm*

You give sauder a bad name.

[at1212b]

Hold on.

There's a difference between Asset Management and Investment Banking?

What about being an equity researcher at an investment bank like Goldman Sachs?

Oh brother.... Just dont' ever ask that question when if you're in a interview if you want a chance.

[AirplaneKing]

Hold on.

There's a difference between Asset Management and Investment Banking?

What about being an equity researcher at an investment bank like Goldman Sachs?

Asset Management is buy-side finance. In otherwords, you're working for an institution that is interested in buying securities and assets to achieve a particular investment goal. Examples would include mutual funds, hedge funds, private equity, pension plans, sovereign wealth funds and insurance companies.

Investment Banking is sell-side finance. In this case, you are working as the intermediary between buy-side investors and parties looking to raise capital in the public or private markets, or sometimes as the underwriting principal looking to make a profit between spreads.

Investment banks also advise on mergers & acquisitions and trade securities (which is facilitated by their sales & trading division, not their investment banking division). Most, if not all, major investment banks have both buy-side and sell-side arms.

I mean it's good you have your sights set high and everything, but you've gotta know a lot more than that if you're looking to land a job at a Goldman Sachs or another BB.

[bruizeman]

This guy will make an awesome stock-picking, investment advising, investment banker.

:)

[aac85]

This guy will make an awesome stock-picking, investment advising, investment banker.

:)

do you guys remember how a dart throwing monkey beat out active portfolio managers for stock pickings?

if the monkey can do it, im sure there is hope :)

[AirplaneKing]

do you guys remember how a dart throwing monkey beat out active portfolio managers for stock pickings?

if the monkey can do it, im sure there is hope :)

But that's no ordinary monkey; that's a dart throwing monkey! Surely that monkey would have investment prowess that us mortals cannot even begin to comprehend.

[chris0101]

I hope you do realize the amount of time you'll have to invest in doing this. IB is no easy field to get into nor is it the glorious field that it has been hyped (especially with this recession).

As recommended, you will have to network (create a linkedin profile for example to start with and ask around about local investment bankers in the area), keep up with the daily business news, maintain top-notch grades, perhaps quite a few extracurriculars (focus in on business but also do other things like the leadership clubs just to stand out), etc.

Another thing you could do is research the profession. At some point, you'll want to specialize. Read about it, talk to people. Talking early on about where you plan to end up (extra certifications, what specific field, etc.) can really make you stand out and show that you're truly into the profession.

With the economy in this shape, jobs are going to be ever more competitive. So that means that you won't just be competing with students, you may very well end up competing with experienced candidates too for even entry level positions.

[steevee]

This guy will make an awesome stock-picking, investment advising, investment banker.

:)

He IS an investment bank! He does everything!