Regulation in the taxi cab industry

[BlackJays]

Having just been involved in another accident involving cabs I feel its high time we start imposing strictly monitored time limits for taxi cab drivers. Currently I don't think there is any rule preventing a cab driver for driving 25 hours a day other then there is only 24 hours in the day.

Now before you guys start thinking I'm a bad driver, I was a passenger in both instances. Once with a friend, once in the cab. Both time the cab was at fault
and both times the guy looked like he was too tired to drive. One involved the cab driver pulling infront of my friends car in a clear 100% at fault left turn.
It could have been avoided by actually looking before pulling a left, but he didn't.

Second time the guy just flew into someones bumper, no not downtown in crazy traffic, but up town in smooth moving traffic. He just didn't hit the brakes hard enough, he was going like at least 40 - 50 km/h into a stopped car. Just too tired!


I realize i am going on a bit of rant here, but let's face it. These cab drivrs are bad drivers. They are tired, they're doing whatever they can to make ends meet, which is great for them. But they endanger the society.
We regulate truck drivers, we regulate pilots. How many people take a taxi cab each and every day in Toronto? How about weekends. Probably the equivalent of 10 plane loads of people.

How many taxi cabs do you see with the "faded license plate", its not faded because its old, its faded with some chemical. I wonder whats that for, hit and run!!! Bye bye

What rules do we have? Ummm let's see, you get a cab drivers license. Rent a cab, and put on a laminated sheet of paper on a head rest and your a "professional" driver. More like you a driver who is trying to pay off cost of rent cab, and gas, then profit $$$ no sleep.

How about the passengers "bill of rights", they cliam a taxi has no right to refuse a fare, hah try getting a $10 cab fare from club district at 2:30 / 3 am. You'll find the answer is NO.

If the meter is not in the record position, your cab ride is free. BS!!!

Anyone agree with me here?

(only exception is the karoke bus / taxi.... SO FUNN!!! theyre so great)

[randomdef]

I can;t say I understand your rant, but good on you for putting it on the internet.

[BornRuff]

The hours that taxi drivers work is certainly a problem, though simply capping the hours wont really solve the problem. They work those hours because they have to, not because they want too. The fixed costs associated with operating a cab are very high, so they need to work the long hours in order to make anywhere near a decent living.

[Whitedart]

Having just been involved in another accident involving cabs I feel its high time we start imposing strictly monitored time limits for taxi cab drivers. Currently I don't think there is any rule preventing a cab driver for driving 25 hours a day other then there is only 24 hours in the day.

Now before you guys start thinking I'm a bad driver, I was a passenger in both instances. Once with a friend, once in the cab. Both time the cab was at fault
and both times the guy looked like he was too tired to drive. One involved the cab driver pulling infront of my friends car in a clear 100% at fault left turn.
It could have been avoided by actually looking before pulling a left, but he didn't.

Second time the guy just flew into someones bumper, no not downtown in crazy traffic, but up town in smooth moving traffic. He just didn't hit the brakes hard enough, he was going like at least 40 - 50 km/h into a stopped car. Just too tired!


I realize i am going on a bit of rant here, but let's face it. These cab drivrs are bad drivers. They are tired, they're doing whatever they can to make ends meet, which is great for them. But they endanger the society.
We regulate truck drivers, we regulate pilots. How many people take a taxi cab each and every day in Toronto? How about weekends. Probably the equivalent of 10 plane loads of people.

How many taxi cabs do you see with the "faded license plate", its not faded because its old, its faded with some chemical. I wonder whats that for, hit and run!!! Bye bye

What rules do we have? Ummm let's see, you get a cab drivers license. Rent a cab, and put on a laminated sheet of paper on a head rest and your a "professional" driver. More like you a driver who is trying to pay off cost of rent cab, and gas, then profit $$$ no sleep.

How about the passengers "bill of rights", they cliam a taxi has no right to refuse a fare, hah try getting a $10 cab fare from club district at 2:30 / 3 am. You'll find the answer is NO.

If the meter is not in the record position, your cab ride is free. BS!!!

Anyone agree with me here?

Why not direct your complaint to the appropriate taxi licensing office where this occurred? In Ontario all taxis are licensed by the municipality where they operate. But that licensing office is not necessarily looking on RFD for complaints about their licensed taxis, especially when you don't provide a specific location.

[GangStarr]

I can;t say I understand your rant, but good on you for putting it on the internet.

Yeah it's not your fault, I don't think the OP was talking about medicine hat's taxi industry anyways.

OP does needs to name a city, but we all can safely assume its Toronto since this is RFD right? Perhaps DT means downtown?

Anyways, he makes some valid points, I bet cab drivers are willing to admit they work over 12 hours a day. Which just isn't safe.

As for the taxi licensing office, currently there's no rules on how long they can drive for. So whats the point of calling them? OP should probably talk to his MP who will probably do nothing.

[_Allan_]

Contact your local Ontario city - THEY regulate the cabs.
Other provinces may regulate differently.

[ghostryder]

The hours that taxi drivers work is certainly a problem, though simply capping the hours wont really solve the problem. They work those hours because they have to, not because they want too. The fixed costs associated with operating a cab are very high, so they need to work the long hours in order to make anywhere near a decent living.

Long haul truckers are restricted as to the number of hours they drive, mandatory rest etc. Why should taxis be any different?

[BornRuff]

Long haul truckers are restricted as to the number of hours they drive, mandatory rest etc. Why should taxis be any different?

I think it would be great if Taxi drivers could earn a living working less than 70 hours a week. I'm just saying that you can't just say "no working more than 50 hours a week" without changing the reason they have to work that many hours or we wont have any taxis.

[ghostryder]

I think it would be great if Taxi drivers could earn a living working less than 70 hours a week.

Maybe they should just work 50 hours/wk and live within their means. My uncle was a cab driver for many years and managed a comfortable, modest lifestyle.

I'm just saying that you can't just say "no working more than 50 hours a week" without changing the reason they have to work that many hours or we wont have any taxis.

Yes we can. We can easily restrict their hours just like we do with truckers for safety reasons. If taxi drivers find they can't make a living on those hours then they leave that industry and will find other work. Then the remuneration will have to rise to attract drivers. Just like any other business.

[BornRuff]

Your opinions show a lack of understanding of how the cab industry works.

Maybe they should just work 50 hours/wk and live within their means. My uncle was a cab driver for many years and managed a comfortable, modest lifestyle.

It's is in no means an issue of them not living within their means. They are making terrible money. A study done last year in Toronto showed that taxi drivers were working an average of 70 hours per week and only taking home about $500 per week.

The costs are largely individual to the city you are working in. One of the largest costs associated with working as a cabbie is the fee for the license to drive the taxi in the first place, which varies drastically from place to place, so your example of your uncle isn't to useful.

Yes we can. We can easily restrict their hours just like we do with truckers for safety reasons. If taxi drivers find they can't make a living on those hours then they leave that industry and will find other work. Then the remuneration will have to rise to attract drivers. Just like any other business.

The remuneration in Toronto is government mandated, so it's not just going to figure out itself. It sounds like fixing the problems with licensing fees might be a better fix though.

[ghostryder]

Your opinions show a lack of understanding of how the cab industry works.

Please explain. How is the taxi business different from any other industry? Businesses offer the least amount of remuneration they can to get the labour they need. If no one is willing to work for that wage, they either increase the remuneration or they go out of business.


It's is in no means an issue of them not living within their means. They are making terrible money. A study done last year in Toronto showed that taxi drivers were working an average of 70 hours per week and only taking home about $500 per week.

And if no one was willing to do that work at that wage the wages would have to rise to attract labour (or go out of business). Supply & demand.

for example: Minimum wage in SK is $9.25 yet if you walk into a McDonalds you can start (with no experience) at almost $11/hr plus benefits & profit sharing. Why? Because if they offered only minimum they would not be able to attract/retain staff, and they would have to close up business.

The costs are largely individual to the city you are working in. One of the largest costs associated with working as a cabbie is the fee for the license to drive the taxi in the first place, which varies drastically from place to place, so your example of your uncle isn't to useful.


Why not? Do you think there is no licence fee where I live?

[GangStarr]

A study done last year in Toronto showed that taxi drivers were working an average of 70 hours per week and only taking home about $500 per week.



Any links to that study? I would question how they would accuratly monitor a cabbies pay since so much of it is cash based. I imagine there are a number of advantages to not reporting their entire income.

Also lets not forget they raised the price of fares when gas prices when up, but didn't lower them when gas prices went down.

[king_george]

Please explain. How is the taxi business different from any other industry? Businesses offer the least amount of remuneration they can to get the labour they need. If no one is willing to work for that wage, they either increase the remuneration or they go out of business.

Cab drivers do not get a wage. They earn by picking up as many fares as possible in a given time period. They pay themselves.
The taxi business is very different simply because while your expenses like lease and radio rental are static (with occasional increases) your income can vary wildly from month to month.

You never can budget for gas and oil thanks to the big oil companies....



And if no one was willing to do that work at that wage the wages would have to rise to attract labour (or go out of business). Supply & demand.

for example: Minimum wage in SK is $9.25 yet if you walk into a McDonalds you can start (with no experience) at almost $11/hr plus benefits & profit sharing. Why? Because if they offered only minimum they would not be able to attract/retain staff, and they would have to close up business.

Which is well and fine when you are actually getting a wage. Taxi drivers are in one of the most cut-throat businesses around with virtually no worker protection. Nobody offers a wage to any driver, at least in my experience. They usually say that here is the rent charge for the day/night, pay that amount and you keep the rest. But the person supplying the car and radio gets paid first.



Why not? Do you think there is no licence fee where I live?

License fees are only one part of the overall expenses for anyone driving a taxi.

IMO I'd never trust any study on cab drivers takehome because there is so much cash involved. Not that I ever held anything back of course...:o

[BornRuff]

Here is the link to the article, it's really interesting.

http://www.taxi-library.org/toronto_taxi_working_conditions.pdf

Please explain. How is the taxi business different from any other industry? Businesses offer the least amount of remuneration they can to get the labour they need. If no one is willing to work for that wage, they either increase the remuneration or they go out of business.

That is not how the business works because every aspect of it is tightly regulated by the government. The amount they can charge is mandated, as are licensing fees. That is why I am saying that you can't go about it with such a laissez faire attitude.

And if no one was willing to do that work at that wage the wages would have to rise to attract labour (or go out of business). Supply & demand.

for example: Minimum wage in SK is $9.25 yet if you walk into a McDonalds you can start (with no experience) at almost $11/hr plus benefits & profit sharing. Why? Because if they offered only minimum they would not be able to attract/retain staff, and they would have to close up business.

See my above answer.

Why not? Do you think there is no licence fee where I live?

I already clearly said that fees vary drastically from city to city. The way these licenses are distributed and held is another large factor. In Toronto a lot of licenses are held by people who don't actually drive the cabs, and the owners tend to make much more than the drivers.

[Whitedart]

Cab drivers do not get a wage. They earn by picking up as many fares as possible in a given time period. They pay themselves.
The taxi business is very different simply because while your expenses like lease and radio rental are static (with occasional increases) your income can vary wildly from month to month.

You never can budget for gas and oil thanks to the big oil companies....

Which is well and fine when you are actually getting a wage. Taxi drivers are in one of the most cut-throat businesses around with virtually no worker protection. Nobody offers a wage to any driver, at least in my experience. They usually say that here is the rent charge for the day/night, pay that amount and you keep the rest. But the person supplying the car and radio gets paid first.

License fees are only one part of the overall expenses for anyone driving a taxi.

In addition to gas/maintenance, plate/car leasing fees, licensing fees, I think you neglected to mention car insurance. I think that ranks near the top in fees.

[king_george]

In addition to gas/maintenance, plate/car leasing fees, licensing fees, I think you neglected to mention car insurance. I think that ranks near the top in fees.

Yes for the owners you have to include all that. Thing is though that owners rent their plates and cars to keep an income flowing.

Lessees pay a set rate plus gas, but owners pay things like maintenance and insurance. That's why the hired drivers must pay them off the top at the end of every shift.

I drove part time for a year and learned to despise the general public...:D The good thing was that I happened to be a pretty good driver at hustling fares and actually created a really good part time cash flow. Unfortunately the *******s of the world made my life miserable too many times. :mad:

[ghostryder]

Here is the link to the article, it's really interesting.

http://www.taxi-library.org/toronto_taxi_working_conditions.pdf

That is not how the business works because every aspect of it is tightly regulated by the government. The amount they can charge is mandated, as are licensing fees. That is why I am saying that you can't go about it with such a laissez faire attitude.


And as I said, if no one was willing to work for that pay what do you think would happen to the remuneration? I am well aware that taxi drivers typically do not get a traditional wage, and (unless they own their own licence) have to "rent" a cab/licence from someone else.

My dad was a long haul truck driver. He had to buy his own truck and pay all his own expenses. The company he worked for payed per KM. But he still had to abide by the regulations regarding the amount of time he could drive, mandatory rest periods etc. Other than the regulation of the amount charged by taxis to their customers, how is this any different?

The original post was concerned with regulating the hours of work for taxi drivers for safety reasons. There are other industries/jobs where the long hours of work give me cause for concern. Frankly I think doctors should be restricted too. If I go into an emergency room critically injured the doctor who holds my life in his/her hands could have been awake for days, while the nurses probably haven't worked any longer than their scheduled shift/collective agreement allows.

I already clearly said that fees vary drastically from city to city. The way these licenses are distributed and held is another large factor. In Toronto a lot of licenses are held by people who don't actually drive the cabs, and the owners tend to make much more than the drivers.

Which is the same where I live. So nothing unique. My uncle started as a driver for someone else until he could afford his own license. By the time he retired he owned 3 licences. He had his cars operating 24/7 with drivers plus himself.

In fact there has been some controversy here in Saskatoon over the number of and cost of licences. Based on press reports the rumored cost of buying a licence is well into 6 figures. Since the city limits the number of licences supply & demand affects the price. Licence owners don't want more licences issued because that would devalue their asset, drivers who don't own their own want more licences but not so many that the city is flooded with cabs and there is not enough customers to go around.

Frankly I think the city should just issue licences to anyone who is qualified. The market will find equilibrium on its own.


Cab drivers do not get a wage. They earn by picking up as many fares as possible in a given time period. They pay themselves.

You are taking my use of the word "wage" too literally. I am well aware that cab drivers are essentially self employed and have to "rent" a car/licence from the licence owner (unless they own their own licence).


Which is well and fine when you are actually getting a wage. Taxi drivers are in one of the most cut-throat businesses around with virtually no worker protection. Nobody offers a wage to any driver, at least in my experience. They usually say that here is the rent charge for the day/night, pay that amount and you keep the rest. But the person supplying the car and radio gets paid first.


None of this negates my argument. If no one was willing to work under these conditions, the pay would have to rise to attract labour. Obviously cab drivers think that this work pays better than their alternatives otherwise they would leave the business and take their labour elsewhere. Why are these drivers driving cab instead of flipping burgers? Because they can make more money driving than flipping.

[xstatik]

I've always wonder how can taxi drivers, who are driving for a living, be such bad driver.. Drive too slow, U-Turns everywhere, running lights, tailgating, illegal lane changes etc..
Once, in downtown Toronto, I saw a taxi attempt a U-Turn and drive right into the side of a car!

[king_george]

None of this negates my argument. If no one was willing to work under these conditions, the pay would have to rise to attract labour. Obviously cab drivers think that this work pays better than their alternatives otherwise they would leave the business and take their labour elsewhere. Why are these drivers driving cab instead of flipping burgers? Because they can make more money driving than flipping.

I actually wasn't trying to negate anything, just tried to use the correct terminology.

If you have ever been in the taxi industry, you know that a large percentage of drivers are utterly incapable of doing anything else for various reasons. Not many people do it because they like it or are making a good living, it's one of the easiest jobs to get where cash is used almost exclusively.

It's a horrble job fraught with dangers, but when you really really need to make some cash, cab driving can fulfill the need.

The taxi industry cannot be compared to any regular-paying job. You'd only understand why if you've ever done it.