Traction Control System (TCS) and Dynamic Stability Control (DSC)

[drman]

How important is Traction Control System (TCS) and Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) for winter driving. I am choosing between a Mazda 6 and Altima coupe 2.5. The latter does not have these options and I am wondering if this would affect winter safety.

[Faeton]

It's a great safety feature, BUT... winter tires and conservative driving would make way a bigger difference than TCS/DSC systems driving in the winter time, IMO.

If there's snow on the ground for more than a week where you live, get winter tires. All-seasons are really only 3-season tires.

[jasonkwan86]

I believe every car manufacturer has a different name for traction control. They all work sort of in the same way, with the end result being safer driving. I do recommend winter tires in the winter, to my knowledge all season tires stop working at -7 degrees. The compound changes or something. Maybe someone else can explain it better?

[mart242]

All-seasons are really only 3-season tires.


They are not 3-season, they are NO-season. They suck in summer as well once you're tried real summer tires.

[Pete_Coach]

I have never been in a situations where I may have needed the assistance of stability control (I think). I have been in circumstances where I needed to turn the damn thing off.
Traction control is an OK thing in the Spring, Summer and Winter but it sucks on snowy icy roads, especially going uphill. I have had situations where I have had to stop on an snow covered hill and the traction control made it very difficult to make forward progress. Turning it off allowed me to get moving.
Personally, I think TCS and DSC both do nothing but give a false sense of security where you think the car is going to do something for you. I would not make this a deciding factor in my car buying criteria. (it is also one or two more piece of electronic junk that will go wrong and cost a lot of money)

[TenzoR]

A good set of winter tires will offset any electronic aid. They are really only useful if you actually have traction ...

[thegradas]

you meant all-season tires stop working a -7 degrees Celsius


I believe every car manufacturer has a different name for traction control. They all work sort of in the same way, with the end result being safer driving. I do recommend winter tires in the winter, to my knowledge winter tires stop working at -7 degrees. The compound changes or something. Maybe someone else can explain it better?

[jasonkwan86]

you meant all-season tires stop working a -7 degrees Celsius

Oops, typo. Thanks man. Corrected.

[mr_raider]

I assume you are looking at 4 cyl versions of both cars. Neither has so much torque that they will overwhelm the front end. A light foot and good winter tires will go a long way towards replacing traction control.

VSC (VDIM, ESC, etc...) is another story. To avoid yaw, you must be aware of the traction limits of your tires and avoid going in to turns too fast. ALso, be wary of stoming on the throttle in mid turn.

I would look at the whole car, and not just VSC/TC as the defining factor for buying the car. FWIW, I drove a Sentra SE-R for 6 years with no VSC, TC or ABS. It has the same engine as the Altima, but it's much lighter.

If you really want to save your ass:

http://www.mco.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=3&Itemid=5

[drman]

Thanks a lot for the feedback. I bought the 2.5 with premium package today!

[Lord_Pithicus]

The benefits of stability control should not be underestimated. It prevents the vehicle from spinning out of control and rolling over in a panic steering situation. Few of us get enough practice at emergency maneuvers to be certain that we will do the right thing in the split second that it takes to avoid an accident.

The stability control computer can independently modulate the braking force on all 4 wheels to keep the steering in control. That's a trick even the most skilled stunt driver can't do.

It is so effective that it will become mandatory in a few years.

[Jucius Maximus]

I have never been in a situations where I may have needed the assistance of stability control (I think). I have been in circumstances where I needed to turn the damn thing off.
Traction control is an OK thing in the Spring, Summer and Winter but it sucks on snowy icy roads, especially going uphill. I have had situations where I have had to stop on an snow covered hill and the traction control made it very difficult to make forward progress. Turning it off allowed me to get moving.
Personally, I think TCS and DSC both do nothing but give a false sense of security where you think the car is going to do something for you. I would not make this a deciding factor in my car buying criteria. (it is also one or two more piece of electronic junk that will go wrong and cost a lot of money)
+1, agree.
I have a Mazda 6 and the "traction control" is actually pretty annoying in the Winter.

[mart242]

+1, agree.
I have a Mazda 6 and the "traction control" is actually pretty annoying in the Winter.

It's can't be any worse than the scary ABS in the subaru imprezas (up to at least 2005). If it's slushy and you brake, the %$@# ABS kicks in which releases the wheels and tries to stop them but since there's no traction the end result is that you can't stop at all and fear you'll end up in the intersection so you just yank the handbrake or tighten your butt while bracing for impact. it is downright scary. Yes, I've got winter tires.

If they don't give us the choice of having to deal with ABS / TCS and all the other crap, they should at least allow us to disable it during winter (no the case with ABS)

[RMachucaA]

This new trend of over-safety electronics in cars is driving me nuts.

Im a firm believer that proper training\education is the best safety device. They give a false sense of security, and are used as fillers in brochures and salesman pitches.

For the last 3 years i drove a crown victoria P71 during winter, with all season tyres, no extra weight in the back. Never had an issue. All the electronics i need to keep control are included between my ears, before that i drove a BMW e30 318is, same deal, never had so much fun driving a car, no ABS, no TC, no TCS, nothing of the sort. And guess what, in the 15 years i've been driving, i've never had an accident. (knock on wood :P)

I did though drive a friends maxima with all these fancy useless electronics, the first impression i got is that these intrusive "safety" electronics will get me in more trouble then i could get myself into. And the new trend of "throttle by wire" is annoying me aswell.

[zivan56]

My car has some really annoying safety features which essentially reduces power to 0% if too much wheel slip is detected in the snow. Therefore you can get stuck in the snow even if you can actually get out.
Thankfully, there is a switch to disable it. There is a pedal dance you can do on most Toyota/Lexus cars. I'm sure Subaru has something similar to disable it.

[jason9945]

I have never been in a situations where I may have needed the assistance of stability control (I think). I have been in circumstances where I needed to turn the damn thing off.
Traction control is an OK thing in the Spring, Summer and Winter but it sucks on snowy icy roads, especially going uphill. I have had situations where I have had to stop on an snow covered hill and the traction control made it very difficult to make forward progress. Turning it off allowed me to get moving.
Personally, I think TCS and DSC both do nothing but give a false sense of security where you think the car is going to do something for you. I would not make this a deciding factor in my car buying criteria. (it is also one or two more piece of electronic junk that will go wrong and cost a lot of money)

+1

I've never needed any of it. Ever..

[Pete_Coach]

Thanks a lot for the feedback. I bought the 2.5 with premium package today!
Congrats, I hope you enjoy the car.
The benefits of stability control should not be underestimated. It prevents the vehicle from spinning out of control and rolling over in a panic steering situation. .....
It is so effective that it will become mandatory in a few years.
Oh, that every day driving condition???
Yes, mandatory just like that ever so useful tire pressure warning system (TPMS)?
This new trend of over-safety electronics in cars is driving me nuts.
...... And the new trend of "throttle by wire" is annoying me aswell.

My car has some really annoying safety features which essentially reduces power to 0% if too much wheel slip is detected in the snow. Therefore you can get stuck in the snow even if you can actually get out.
....
All for the sake of safety but, I do not see evidence of the issues that caused the requirement nor actuarial evidence of the prevention of the claimed incidents after they have been installed.
What I have seen is large amounts of money spent by frustrated car owners to repair and maintain the systems. In short, perpetual motion for the OEM's. Install them and perpetually make money, a revenue generating product.

[TenzoR]

Not sure why all the negativity towards these electronic aids. I never find my DSC intrusive, it's always very predictable and hardly comes on.

[mart242]

I did though drive a friends maxima with all these fancy useless electronics, the first impression i got is that these intrusive "safety" electronics will get me in more trouble then i could get myself into. And the new trend of "throttle by wire" is annoying me aswell.

I've had two subarus imprezas and now have a brand new A4 and I have to say that the first time "ESP" kicked in it was scary. I was expecting the car to slide a bit and ready to correct it but the ESP just kicks in, brakes a wheel here and there and bingo, car is still on track. It just feels un-natural.

[Pete_Coach]

Not sure why all the negativity towards these electronic aids. I never find my DSC intrusive, it's always very predictable and hardly comes on.

Never said intrusive, just potentially problematic. The more the systems become integrated, the more it will cost to diagnose and repair even small issues on single events or systems.
Any of the so called safety systems will never be felt during the normal every day to day driving. If they were intrusive, then the sensitivity of them would be too low.

[macnut]

Not sure why all the negativity towards these electronic aids. I never find my DSC intrusive, it's always very predictable and hardly comes on.

I think it is because how well they are implemented varies significantly by vehicle manufacturer.

If not done well, many drivers come to see them as over-fussy "nannies".

Done well, they feel be more like a "fairy godmother".

Traction control definitely needs to have the option of switching it off, for those times when starting off on a slippery surface is better achieved with some moderate wheel spin.

For the average driver, stability control probably does not need to be user-switchable.
Ideally, interventions should be hardly noticeable, but people need to accept you can't have it all ways - one time however, it might just save your life.

[ES_Revenge]

How important is Traction Control System (TCS) and Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) for winter driving. I am choosing between a Mazda 6 and Altima coupe 2.5. The latter does not have these options and I am wondering if this would affect winter safety.

If you want a good explanation of what these systems do and how they work for you, I would do a search. Myself and others have explained these sytems, in detail, more than once before.

Stability control systems by nature include traction control, so though most manufacturers will advertise them as separate, it's essentially just stupid marketing as saying the vehicle has stability control is sufficient to imply it also has traction control. (A vehicle with traction control however, does not necessarily mean that it has stability control.)

Of note stability control is a much more useful feature than just traction control. Stability control can prevent you from under- or over- steering and sliding off the road (or into other cars/objects) while traction control alone only mitigates acceleration slippage (wheelspin). IMO stability control is one of the best safety features you can have in a vehicle, especially when you consider the extremely low standards to obtain a license... Since most people haven't got a clue how to handle skidding/sliding situations properly (certainly isn't required to demonstrate/recover on a driver's test), stability control can make a huge difference in overall road safety.

The most important thing to remember is that these systems cannot create traction. They can only "find" traction where the driver otherwise cannot. If there is too little useful traction to "find", these systems aren't going to be able to solve that problem of low traction. Traction is generated between your tyres and the road surface. You certainly cannot control the road surface you drive over (e.g. weather, maintenace, etc.) but you certainly can choose to equip your vehicle properly. Your baseline traction will depend on what tyres are on the vehicle. I.e. If you drive on all-seasons, don't expect a car with stability control to make up for the fact that you're driving on garbage tyres.

[Lord_Pithicus]

Oh, that every day driving condition???

Do you crash your car daily? If not, does it mean you don't need seat belts, air bags, side beams, fireproof gas tanks, etc?