Putting a stand up Freezer on an Electrical Timer

[kasm]

I just finished watching a dvd from Enersource that they gave me after upgrading my Electrical Meter to a Smart Meter.

In the video they talked about putting Freezers and Refridgerators on Electrical Timers. They mentioned that you can remove the power for 4 hours and it won't affect the performance.

This is the first I have heard if this and it's got me curious. I'm concerned about food spoiling. Also it doesn't mention 4 hours at a time during what period - one a day, once every other day, twice a day, once a week.

Anyone have an expert opinion on this or experience with this practice?

Thanks

[MacGyver]

A freezer can go for a day or two without power depending on how much stuff is in it, IF you don't open the door. See http://www.gov.ns.ca/agri/foodsafety/factsht/powerout.shtml

This idea could be beneficial if you're trying to avoid using as much electricity as you can during time-of-use (TOU) periods that have a high electrical rate.

As far as I know, there aren't any residential customers in Ontario paying TOU rates yet. First, everyone needs a smart meter, then they need to build a massive data collection and storage network for all the meter data they're going to collect. So at this point I wouldn't bother.

[brute33]

you'd get better savings putting a timer on the hot water tank. you don't need to heat the water while you're sleeping. most tanks are 4800watts so it would add up over a year

[kasm]

I did even better and got a tankless.

[brunes]

This whole scheme makes no sense. Your freezer and frige have thermostats in them for a reason, it is to keep the thing at a desired temperature, all the time. The thermostat kicks the compressor on and off as needed - it is not on any more than it has to be to keep the unit at the temperature you have it set at.

If you think you can get away with keeping your freezer off for 4 hours / day, then that means it is set much too high and is overly cold. Why don't you just adjust the thermostat so it is not so cold? You will save the same amount of power, save on a power meter, and the food will remain at a constant temperature so it is not thawing and re-freezing all of the time.

you'd get better savings putting a timer on the hot water tank. you don't need to heat the water while you're sleeping. most tanks are 4800watts so it would add up over a year
This doesn't make a whole lot of sense either because almost hot wate rheaters are very well insulated. The tank hardly uses any power sitting there.

So if you shut the tank off for 4 hours overnight, and lose 4 degrees of heat, that is 4 degrees more the tank now has to heat up in the next 4 hours before you take your morning shower, so it will be doing double-duty.

You are not going to save any money or energy at all this way. The best way to save money or energy is to install a tankless hot water system, or a solar heat system to supplement your electrical tank.

[l69norm]

This whole scheme makes no sense. Your freezer and frige have thermostats .....

It for the whole real time of use (TOU) pricing scheme that Ontario will have soon as Macgyver mentioned above. The price of of electricity will rise dramatically (3-4X) during the peak day hours, so the idea is to run you fridge extra hard when electricity is cheap and turn it off when the price goes high.

Edit - announced yesterday:
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/May2009/14/c4014.html
"TORONTO, May 14 /CNW/ - Toronto Hydro-Electric System Limited (Toronto
Hydro) today made it official: the first 10,000 Toronto Hydro customers will
make the switch to Time-of-Use (TOU) rates beginning June 2009. Remaining
customers will transition to TOU rates over the next 12 months. ...... ..
Effective May 1, 2009, the TOU summer prices are:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time Time-of-Use Price (per kWh)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Weekends & Holidays
------------------------------------------------------------------------
All Day Off-Peak 4.2 cents
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Summer Weekdays
(May 1 - Oct. 31)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
7:00 AM - 11:00 AM Mid-Peak 7.6 cents
------------------------------------------------------------------------
11:00 AM - 5:00 PM On-Peak 9.1 cents
------------------------------------------------------------------------
5:00 PM - 10:00 PM Mid-Peak 7.6 cents
------------------------------------------------------------------------
10:00 PM - 7:00 AM Off-Peak 4.2 cents
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Frankie3s]

This whole scheme makes no sense. Your freezer and frige have thermostats in them for a reason, it is to keep the thing at a desired temperature, all the time. The thermostat kicks the compressor on and off as needed - it is not on any more than it has to be to keep the unit at the temperature you have it set at.

If you think you can get away with keeping your freezer off for 4 hours / day, then that means it is set much too high and is overly cold. Why don't you just adjust the thermostat so it is not so cold? You will save the same amount of power, save on a power meter, and the food will remain at a constant temperature so it is not thawing and re-freezing all of the time.


This doesn't make a whole lot of sense either because almost hot wate rheaters are very well insulated. The tank hardly uses any power sitting there.

So if you shut the tank off for 4 hours overnight, and lose 4 degrees of heat, that is 4 degrees more the tank now has to heat up in the next 4 hours before you take your morning shower, so it will be doing double-duty.

You are not going to save any money or energy at all this way. The best way to save money or energy is to install a tankless hot water system, or a solar heat system to supplement your electrical tank.

+1. I totally agree. Why don't we all go just go back to the caveman days? The problem here folks is that the more people conserve, the more the utility rates will need to be increased as the utilities costs such as employees and equipment have not decreased. So keep on cutting back and you will keep on paying more.

[l69norm]

+1. I totally agree. Why don't we all go just go back to the caveman days? The problem here folks is that the more people conserve, the more the utility rates will need to be increased as the utilities costs such as employees and equipment have not decreased. So keep on cutting back and you will keep on paying more.

I would say the opposite. The rates you pay today are regulated (by the OEB in Ontario) and are artificially low. When the wholesale electricity price is higher than the regulated rate, the difference is added into the provincial debt

For example, say the regulated rate is 9.1 cents per kw-hr, but the wholesale rate this hour is 18 cents. That means for every kw-hr I use, the provincial debt increases by 8.9 cents.

My opinion is that the people who are conserving electricity are subsidizing the people who don't because we all have to pay the same via the debt reduction charge.

If we allow the regulated price to rise to the so called market rate, then the people who are saving electricity are no longer subsidizing the ones that don't

[Djayjay]

+1. I totally agree. Why don't we all go just go back to the caveman days? The problem here folks is that the more people conserve, the more the utility rates will need to be increased as the utilities costs such as employees and equipment have not decreased. So keep on cutting back and you will keep on paying more.


I agree. In Hamilton they were talking about raising the water and sewage rates because of all the rain last year so people I guess were not watering their grass and gardens, so the city didn't make enough money. It's a win lose situation.

[creepy_chris]

You should be able to turn off your freezer for 4 hours each day without any problems. To get the best savings on this, try and time this 4 hour block so that you end the block(turn the power back on) just as the prime usage time is ending. You won't be saving much in terms of total energy usage, but this will give you some control over when that energy is being used. If you are really worried about food spoiling, stick a thermometer in your fridge/freezer and check it just before the power kicks back in. If the temperature is too high, cut back the time you have it off to 2 or 3 hours instead.

[TCWeasel]

The problem with turning off your freezer for 4 hours is that it will affect the food. Your food may not spoil to do it, but it'll become more susceptible to the food becoming freezer burnt.

Frost free are culprit for this, as they're constantly turning on and turning off, warming and cooling. So long as your food remains completely frozen, it should be OK, but when you get into a cycle of the warming and cooling it can cause freezer burn.

Will turning it off for 1/6th of the day help save money? Maybe, but then you might be shortening the life of the food inside.

I'd also personally be wary the constant change in electricity going to the freezer and its thermostat controls, compressor...etc.

Tips for efficient use would be;

- Freezers that are over 15 years old use a lot more energy than new ones.
- Keeping freezers near capacity makes the freezing more effective.
- Having a freezer that is appropriate for the amount of food you keep
- Keeping it organized (baskets, items neatly stacked) will make it easier to find what you're looking for, keeping the freezer open for less time.
- Don't use one if the fridge freezer is good enough for what you have.

[dark169]

stand up freezers are horrible in terms of energy waste, as every time you open the door all the cool dense air pours out onto the floor, get a chest style freezer.

To save power during high rate times, put a note on the door reminding you not to open the freezer until have 5pm. Odds are if no one has opened it between 9 and 5 anyway unplugging it won't do anything.

[Samwfive]

stand up freezers are horrible in terms of energy waste, as every time you open the door all the cool dense air pours out onto the floor, get a chest style freezer.

Huh?

It takes 2-5 seconds to look for an item and I can't imagine how long for the chesty. 60?

[dark169]

Huh?

It takes 2-5 seconds to look for an item and I can't imagine how long for the chesty. 60?

As soon as you open the door all the cold air pours out. I'm willing to wager that most of the air has changed by the time you've opend the door all the way and started your 5 second look.

A chest freezer almost none of the air leaves when opened. Chest freezers a are more energy choice, slightly harder to sort through.

[tomw]

As far as I know, there aren't any residential customers in Ontario paying TOU rates yet. First, everyone needs a smart meter, then they need to build a massive data collection and storage network for all the meter data they're going to collect. So at this point I wouldn't bother.

You're wrong. We've been paying TOU rates for a while now in the Halton area. There's a big difference price between the peak time and off-peak time rates.

[Frankie3s]

With smart meters and peak hour pricing soon to be in-effect, I'm sure that it will probably end up killing off the fully electric car concept being adopted at least in Ontario. No one will be able to afford it the energy rate during peak hours.

[XtremeModder]

I thought this was already in affect... if not then it is where I am...

And why on earth would you buy an electric car if you know about the peak hours and stuff.

You have to be careful w/ timers. I heard you can't use just anything on them... but thats what I've read with timers as we have one for the christmas lights... maybe a more heavy duty timer would be needed. I think it depends on the amount of volts/amps that run through it.

[l69norm]

With smart meters and peak hour pricing soon to be in-effect, I'm sure that it will probably end up killing off the fully electric car concept being adopted at least in Ontario. No one will be able to afford it the energy rate during peak hours.

I'm sure most people would be recharging their electric car at night when the electricity rate is low and where they can park near an outlet for a few hours. If you look at Toronto Hydro's nightime TOU rate, it 4.2 cents per kw/hr which is actually cheaper than what you pay right now (5.7/6.6 cents per kw/hr)

It would be pretty tough to recharge an electric car at work during the daytime because:
a) most office parking lots don't have outlets
b) how would your office be able to figure out who to bill back the electricity used ?