just bought Wii Has artifacts on it. [Archive]

sidshock

Apr 25th, 2009, 12:05 AM

UPDATE:
I'm cool with letting this thread die now. There's nothing I can do about it.
UPDATE END :)

Short version:
Bought a wii.
has artifacts on screen.
Buyer refuses to help me out and let me return it.
says it's my fault now for not checking it for common problems.

Detailed version:
so I just bought a Wii...
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/itrader_detail.php?ir=35723&u=3931

seller updated the thread so the details are gone.
Anyways.
it was modded with a Wiikey back in 2007.
I went to his house, and tried it quickly. Like 2 min just to see a game boot up, make sure the controller works, etc...
all was good.
I bought it for a friend really, but I wanted to try it at home with my HDTV and the component cables included.
I fired it up, and started to play. The I notice Artifacts....
Especially on Super Smash Brother Brawl title screen... just like here...
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26505288
So I txt him about the problem. Then he says that I could've opened the Wii and tampered with it or swapped stuff out of it. The last time I had a Wii was 2 years ago myself and I installed my own Wiikey. So I know my way around it a little. But it's been awhile.
So I say, I will buy a Tri wing driver and open it there infront of him to match up the serial with the casing and inside AND to the BOX he gave me for it.
Is the serial somewhere on the inside? I am assuming as it was on the 360, and I modded some of those, but forgot about the Wii, I only modded about 2. Mine and my friends.
So needless to say, he says he did his due diligence and that it is my fault I didn't check it well enough now if infact the artifacts are from his Wii.
Man... what f'ing luck!!! I dunno if he knew or not. But I drove ALL the way to Hamilton to pick this up from Toronto and back. ON my HDTV it is clear as day, on his SDTV 32 or 37" I forget, I didn't notice it.\

Do I have ANY recourse? the Wii is obviously out of warranty. How much will nintendo charge??

Basically, bottom line, it was demo'd to me on an SDTV with RCA cables wihich I didn't notice, and then got home. Tried it with components on my HDTV and BAM.... defective!. Anyways, he is refusing to refund me. And I gave him positive feedback already before I tried it at home!

EDIT: was conveniently displayed to me on a SDTV in a nice new/large house.
Buyer tells me now I should have known to look for the common problems. I honestly didn't know this was common if it is.

Edit2: so after I told him I would even buy a triwing screwdriver to open the Wii and show him the serials will match up inside and out and on the box to prove I didn't tamper with it. he then says it is my fault for not noticing the Artifacts on his SDTV. So now I am 99% sure he knew what he was selling me.

EDIT3:
so I told him I am going to come up tomorrow afternoon, that's ANOTHER drive from toronto to hamilton and back for me, to return the Wii as it is clearly defective. Then he tells me if I step on his property that I am harassing him and he is calling the cops. That I should take him to small claims court if I have a problem.
So I told him, I am coming up either way and that I will politely explain the situation to his parents if need be to rectify this problem.

EDIT4:
Here's a quick message I found similar to my situation...
http://www.bestplasmascreensblog.com/530/artifacts-on-screen/
It states how it was not noticable until he hooked it up to an HDTV 50"...
Just like my case, where it was demo'd to me on a small SDTV. Guy is refusing to refund...
Any advice for me when I go to talk to him tomorrow? I am going all the way to hamilton again, and it's a pain.

k__dam

Apr 25th, 2009, 01:50 AM

The only thing done to the wii was the mod chip installed by Avenger;
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/itrader_detail.php?ir=8873&u=18711

I am not a Nintendo wii guru, but if there were any known problems, it would�ve been stated. I am an honest seller/trader/buyer on rfd, my track record on rfd, heatware, ebay and 8thcivic proves that.
1. RFD: http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/itrader.php?u=18711
2. Heatware: http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=55965
3. Ebay: http://feedback.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=stradalp&ftab=AllFeedback&myworld=true&seeallfeedback=See%20All%20Feedback
4. 8thcivic: http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/itrader.php?u=30517

If I was trying to scam him, I wouldn�t have let him into MY HOME, let him meet MY FAMILY and let him try it out with no limitations or time limit. I did not rush him or pressure him in any way.

When he did try the wii in my house, it was working perfect without ANY PROBLEMS. Like I told him in my texts, I don�t know what �artifacts� is and since he did know, HE should�ve done his homework and try to spot ANY PROBLEMS if any on my Nintendo wii during the demo.

And even if he can prove to me he can match the serial number inside and out (if that�s a proven method), it only means he didn�t switch the said items. As mentioned, im not a Nintendo wii guru, maybe he dropped it, maybe he tried to hardware mod it, maybe he tried updating the software (like you said you were going to)�.there are way to many possibilities that I am unaware of.

I did my best with my available resources to show him a working Nintendo wii. He tried the wii with satisfaction and payed me. Now he is telling me because he didn�t do his homework, I should bail him out?

I�ve already told him I am not refunding him his money, but now he is saying he will come over to my home tomorrow to have a chat with my parents, but in reality it sounds like harassment/abuse/threats against me. I don�t know why else he would come unless he plans to get his money or revenge. I�ve already warned him that any threats and/or abuse I will be contacting the authorities.

k__dam

Apr 25th, 2009, 01:58 AM

EDIT3:
so I told him I am going to come up tomorrow afternoon, that's ANOTHER drive from toronto to hamilton and back for me, to return the Wii as it is clearly defective. Then he tells me if I step on his property that I am harassing him and he is calling the cops. That I should take him to small claims court if I have a problem.
So I told him, I am coming up either way and that I will politely explain the situation to his parents if need be to rectify this problem.

If you do want to speak to my parents, a phone call is suffice. You are going to 'guess' my parents will be home and drive all the way from toronto on that assumtion? Are you kidding me?

If you feel speaking to them in person is the only solution, how about speaking with them on the phone to make an appointment, you have my phone number. They can be reached through me.

edit;
From reading your post, i am going to assume you think speaking to my family might solve your problem. I am only assuming you think that because you believe my family and I are honest people, which we ARE.

If you need to speak to my parents, make an appointment, and make sure they will be home. If i do see you tomorrow on my property, i will only going to assume the worst.

sidshock

Apr 25th, 2009, 02:19 AM

simply put, I bought a wii that I tested on a small SDTV.
Which clearly did not show the problem well enough to spot it.
the MINUTE I turned it on at my place before doing any update of any sort, I saw the artifacts with the component cable on my HDTV.
As far as I know, it is not a common problem with the Wii and I was never aware of it to look for it in the first place.

I am not doubting your feedback. I even said, at one point, maybe you never saw it on an SDTV if that is all you played it on.
I even said it all looks good when I was at your house with all its contents and said, you have very good feedback so I don't think we should have a problem anyways. However, do note, it was ONLY tested on a older SDTV unit that I did not notice these artifacts on, and even supplied a link above showing someone else that did not notice this issue on his Wii until it was hooked up to a 50" plasma.
I think I am being VERY fair for willing to drive all the way back for a refund on a defective unit, that I NEVER dropped. I drove it home in its original box.
It's just a shame that it was tested on an SDTV only at the POS and noticed right after I got home on an HDTV. I just get mad when he tells me I didn't do DUE DILIGENCE on my part and research it all, etc... in txt messages. What was I supposed to do, carry my 40" LCD with me?!?!

If you were honest, this wouldn't be such an issue. Your parents seemed decent, and are prob. more reasonable and honest.
If you tested, say a PS3 on an old SDTV set you just bought that was supposed to be fully working when advertised, and got home, plugged it into your nice 40-50" HDTV and saw artifacts, honestly, what would you say, "OH well, I guess I'm screwed" ?? or would you contact the seller and respectfully ask for a refund for this mistake, since he ( the original owner) maybe DID play it only on an SDTV and never noticed the issue...

k__dam

Apr 25th, 2009, 02:41 AM

As far as I know, it is not a common problem with the Wii and I was never aware of it to look for it in the first place.

You are telling me YOU did not do your homework. And now i should refund you because of YOUR mistakes

I just get mad when he tells me I didn't do DUE DILIGENCE on my part and research it all, etc... in txt messages. What was I supposed to do, carry my 40" LCD with me?!?!

No, what you should've done is research research research! You were willing to buy an used item online (a working, tested item) but not willing to take on the responsibilities that comes with the territory which only YOU can do. I did not lie to you, i showed you a working wii without any problems, you tested the working wii and was thoroughly happy with it. In my mind, transaction closed. I am not a retail store where you can complain to customer service.

And IF YOU DID DO YOUR RESEARCH you could've asked to test it on my hdtv in the main living room, where my parents were watching tv (the tv you walked passed, the tv that i've never played on cause its not the game room, and cause no one in my house plays the wii anymore). You had EVERY opportunity to test the unit yet you failed to do just that!

If you tested, say a PS3 on an old SDTV set you just bought that was supposed to be fully working when advertised, and got home, plugged it into your nice 40-50" HDTV and saw artifacts, honestly, what would you say, "OH well, I guess I'm screwed" ?? or would you contact the seller and respectfully ask for a refund for this mistake, since he ( the original owner) maybe DID play it only on an SDTV and never noticed the issue...

Like i said in our text messages, i do feel bad for both of us. But.....when i buy an item, online or in store i make sure i research the product, look into what problems i can expect, where it may go wrong etc and MAYBE take a chance on the item.

sidshock

Apr 25th, 2009, 02:50 AM

You are telling me YOU did not do your homework. And now i should refund you because of YOUR mistakes

No, what you should've done is research research research! You were willing to buy an used item online (a working, tested item) but not willing to take on the responsibilities that comes with the territory which only YOU can do. I did not lie to you, i showed you a working wii without any problems, you tested the working wii and was thoroughly happy with it. In my mind, transaction closed. I am not a retail store where you can complain to customer service.

Like i said in our text messages, i do feel bad for both of us. But.....when i buy an item, online or in store i make sure i research the product, look into what problems i can expect, where it may go wrong etc and MAYBE take a chance on the item.

Buddy, this issue did not occur a week later after I bought it.
It was already present, and not noticable on an inferior SDTV which you DEMO'd it to me on.
and the problem was noticed 2 hours later after I drove home from your place.
With this kind of attitude, I feel sorry for ANYONE that buys anything off you.
You advertised it fully working. Maybe you knew the issue, maybe you didn't.
I'm surprised you haven't said that I should have brought my HDTV with me to test it... or is that your next sentence in telling me how it's all my fault I didn't catch on to the scam in time?
If I was paying $100 bucks on something valued at about 3 bills ++ yah, I get that there's a chance there, and would prob.
comb it a LOT more b/c of the price offering. But $250 ( practically the going rate of a used Wii ) I would expect the buyer is selling me something sound, and not something he hopes I would miss until I'm out his door, and that is too late for me in his mind.
Bad seller attitude dude.

you keep saying I should RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH...
You advertised a fully working Wii, not an F'd up one.
Look, all the facts seem to be laid out... Do you agree??
if so, let's see what the other users here at RFD have to say and how they feel about it.
And I will accept the mass opinion weather I agree with it or not. Would you be willing to
go that route???

k__dam

Apr 25th, 2009, 02:59 AM

Buddy, this issue did not occur a week later after I bought it.
It was already present, and not noticable on an inferior SDTV which you DEMO'd it to me on.
and the problem was noticed 2 hours later after I drove home from your place.
With this kind of attitude, I feel sorry for ANYONE that buys anything off you.
You advertised it fully working. Maybe you knew the issue, maybe you didn't.
I'm surprised you haven't said that I should have brought my HDTV with me to test it... or is that your next sentence in telling me how it's all my fault I didn't catch on to the scam in time?

right, the ~40 or so transactions i've done, i've screwed them all.

You admitted you did not do your research, you tested the unit and was happy and now that you find something wrong (and im not even sure if it was from something you've done) it's MY fault and i should reimburse you for your mistakes. Remember, whenever you point a finger at someone, 3 are pointing right back at you.

Matter of fact, you did not want to test the unit, it was ME that said you should! I extended the invitation to come into MY HOME to test it out without you even mentioning it. I wanted a smooth trouble free transaction, its a shame it has come to this.

Edit:
Yah how convenient for you to 'accept the mass opinion' seeing how you have NOTHING to lose now. Me? I am out $250 and a non-selling wii. I am not prepared to accept this yet as these posts from you and i are from the heat of the moment. More time/sleep needs to be had before i can think of all the facts.

GSter

Apr 25th, 2009, 03:15 AM

sidshock

Apr 25th, 2009, 03:15 AM

right, the ~40 or so transactions i've done, i've screwed them all.

You admitted you did not do your research, you tested the unit and was happy and now that you find something wrong (and im not even sure if it was from something you've done) it's MY fault and i should reimburse you for your mistakes. Remember, whenever you point a finger at someone, 3 are pointing right back at you.

Matter of fact, you did not want to test the unit, it was ME that said you should! I extended the invitation to come into MY HOME to test it out without you even mentioning it. I wanted a smooth trouble free transaction, its a shame it has come to this.

Edit:
Yah how convenient for you to 'accept the mass opinion' seeing how you have NOTHING to lose now. Me? I am out $250 and a non-selling wii. I am not prepared to accept this yet as these posts from you and i are from the heat of the moment. More time/sleep needs to be had before i can think of all the facts.

I FIRST asked to come to YOUR house and pick it up!!! remember???
then you said NO, you will meet me at TIM HORTONS at upper james. I said, ok, well you have good feedback, so lets do it.
THEN you called me back and said I should just come over and see it working... ( you know when you set it up on your SDTV and prob. realized the artifacts aren't really noticable on it maybe???)
Then I said ok. I came in, tested the controller, saw you load a game, saw it working... all seemed fine, I said ok, and paid you.
So I did "try" it quickly, but obviously did not notice the artifacts. Again, notice how I have included a link to this issue in above posts to how someone ELSE did not notice his had artifacts issue until he hooked it up to a 50" plasma.

Am I leaving anything out???

sidshock

Apr 25th, 2009, 03:21 AM

wow...you guys should just settle it offline or via pm.

but if you are asking for the other's opinions....I have one.

to the OP...you cannot do anything about it. the seller gave you a chance to test it and everything. it is just inconvenient to bring in a HDTV just for you to check it.

I assume you did your research about the seller, that it is worth driving to hamilton to buy something from him. you wouldn't drive that far if you think he will scam you, right?

It's just very unreasonable for you to hassle the seller like that. He gave you every chance possible. I would not refund you your money if you bought that wii from me...and i think most of us reading this wouldnt either.

anyway, hope guys you can work this out.

yes, it is very inconvenient to carry my HDTV to test it. It is a problem that is hardly noticable on an SDTV, that is why I missed it.
It was a decent price, he had decent feedback, he's been a member since 2004. I assumed it was a fully working Wii as advertised, so I took the drive.
Yes, I guess I am "hassling" him, because I drove out there and back, all the leg work, etc...
I get your point of view though, and I guess I would be ok with it if it were a week, even a couple days, but this was noticed the moment I got home and tried it. So it was an existing problem, just not really visible on an SDTV. but I respect your opinion.

GSter

Apr 25th, 2009, 03:24 AM

both of you seem like good guys so just talk it over and be reasonable.

goodluck to both of you.

k__dam

Apr 25th, 2009, 03:24 AM

I FIRST asked to come to YOUR house and pick it up!!! remember???
then you said NO, you will meet me at TIM HORTONS at upper james. I said, ok, well you have good feedback, so lets do it.

Like any sane human being, i do not trust a stranger into my parents home (am i alone on this one?). But after some thought, it was better for both of us if i let you test it seeing how i did go through your bst feedbacks, and i actually googled your phone number to find any negatives on you.

I do believe you are a good member here at rfd, but fact is you made a mistake and you are the one who has to live with it.

I came in, tested the controller, saw you load a game, saw it working... all seemed fine, I said ok, and paid you.
So I did "try" it quickly, but obviously did not notice the artifacts. Again, notice how I have included a link to this issue in above posts to how someone ELSE did not notice his had artifacts issue until he hooked it up to a 50" plasma.

Am I leaving anything out???

Yes, you are! If you did your research into artifacts, you could've asked me about it, or even asked to try the unit on the other room which you walked past, with the hd tv on.

sidshock

Apr 25th, 2009, 03:29 AM

Like any sane human being, i do not trust a stranger into my parents home (am i alone on this one?). But after some thought, it was better for both of us if i let you test it seeing how i did go through your bst feedbacks, and i actually googled your phone number to find any negatives on you.

I do believe you are a good member here at rfd, but fact is you made a mistake and you are the one who has to live with it.

Yes, you are! If you did your research into artifacts, you could've asked me about it, or even asked to try the unit on the other room which you walked past, with the hd tv on.

I never realized Wii had artifacts as a common problem.
Sorry for not "scoping" your house, but honestly, even if I did notice the HDTV I prob. still would not have asked to see it on it, as I was not aware of artifacts being an issue with the Wii. Someone correct me if I am wrong on this however.
However, since you did include the component cables you must've had this Wii on an HDTV, and the way you've been defending yourself, about how I should have asked you about artifacts, and how it's my fault for not doing my research and how it was displayed on an SDTV leads me to believe you were aware of the problem and lied by omission. However, clearly, I have no proof. Just common sense and rationalization.

k__dam

Apr 25th, 2009, 03:33 AM

wow...you guys should just settle it offline or via pm.

That was our first attempt, via text messaging. I told him what is written in this thread, he then said he'll 'come down tomorrow to see me'

-now when someone says something like that to you, how would you interpret that?

After i said i would call the authorities, he said he wants to speak to my parents, not to threaten me.

- sure, i'll take your word for it

but if you are asking for the other's opinions....I have one.

to the OP...you cannot do anything about it. the seller gave you a chance to test it and everything. it is just inconvenient to bring in a HDTV just for you to check it.

I assume you did your research about the seller, that it is worth driving to hamilton to buy something from him. you wouldn't drive that far if you think he will scam you, right?

It's just very unreasonable for you to hassle the seller like that. He gave you every chance possible. I would not refund you your money if you bought that wii from me...and i think most of us reading this wouldnt either.

anyway, hope guys you can work this out.

thats how im thinking, how in the world can he expects a full refund when;

1. There were no known issues
2. Buyer had every oportunity to test the unit
3. Buyer tested the working unit and payed.
4. Deal closed?

Edit;
its far too late to discuss this even further, im wont be responding until i have free time tomorrow

sidshock

Apr 25th, 2009, 03:36 AM

both of you seem like good guys so just talk it over and be reasonable.

goodluck to both of you.

well, he tells me I should have "ASKED" him about artifacts if you read above post #13, and how it's my fault for not researching enough into it. So he clearly knew, and just didn't tell me, so my $$ is gone b/c someone wanted his $$ back on his defective wii. oh well...
Oh, and he told me I should take him to small claims court.

sidshock

Apr 25th, 2009, 03:40 AM

What?!?! I never said ANYTHING in a threatening manner or undertone!!
What I said was I will buy a $5 triwing driver to open it up to see if there are serials inside to match it up to the outside and BOX he gave me as proof that I did not tamper with it!!.
And then we juggled some more txt's back and forth and I said this is pointless you clearly sold me a defective product ( not exact words) and I will come tomorrow to return it.

Then you said I am harassing you, and you will call the cops, etc.. and I didn't do my due diligence, etc...

That was our first attempt, via text messaging. I told him what is written in this thread, he then said he'll 'come down tomorrow to see me'

-now when someone says something like that to you, how would you interpret that?

After i said i would call the authorities, he said he wants to speak to my parents, not to threaten me.

- sure, i'll take your word for it

thats how im thinking, how in the world can he expects a full refund when;

1. There were no known issues
2. Buyer had every oportunity to test the unit
3. Buyer tested the working unit and payed.
4. Deal closed?

Edit;
its far too late to discuss this even further, im wont be responding until i have free time tomorrow

k__dam

Apr 25th, 2009, 03:43 AM

However, since you did include the component cables you must've had this Wii on an HDTV, and the way you've been defending yourself, about how I should have asked you about artifacts, and how it's my fault for not doing my research

I mentioned it already, i did not buy this system. And im sorry i dont have hd tv in my game room, sorry i dont have the liquid cash available for such a 'need' and only have a crappy 37" sdtv in my game room.

The hd tv i do have is in the main room, you are probably not aware but that room isnt for gaming, nor is the 52" tv (since my dad believes gaming can ruin it)

well, he tells me I should have "ASKED" him about artifacts if you read below, and how it's my fault for not researching enough into it. So he clearly knew, and just didn't tell me, so my $$ is gone b/c someone wanted his $$ back on his defective wii. oh well...

Yes, you should've asked me since your should've done your research and look for any problems associated with a used nintendo wii, and i would've gave you the same answer, which was, "what is artifacts?"

I am not aware of these problems myself, i even told you i havnt been looking into the wii for a very long time. Most of the basic questions you asked me went unasnwered because i didnt know, such as;

1. what firmware am i running?
2. which modchip do i have (which i guessed right, but wasnt sure)

Edit:

It was a decent price, he had decent feedback, he's been a member since 2004. I assumed it was a fully working Wii as advertised, so I took the drive.
Yes, I guess I am "hassling" him, because I drove out there and back, all the leg work, etc...
I get your point of view though, and I guess I would be ok with it if it were a week, even a couple days, but this was noticed the moment I got home and tried it. So it was an existing problem, just not really visible on an SDTV. but I respect your opinion.

wait a minute, dont act like you were doing me any favours by agreeing to meet me in Hamilton. My original asking price was $280 obo, which came down to $250 if you come pick up. Obviously it was in our both interests to meet in hamilton (for me: convenience, ease of transaction, and for you: my asking price came down by $30)

mmmken

Apr 25th, 2009, 04:24 AM

To the OP. You took the risk in buying an used unit, and with buying any used product - you assume that there are no implied guarantees unless explicitly noted. It is your responsibility to ensure that the product you're paying for, is indeed the product you're agreeing to buy - and that it's in working order. Furthermore, he gave you an opportunity to inspect it in person, at his place of residence. I would consider this allowance more than reasonable, and that the seller acted with due diligence.

Consider this a lesson learnt and inspect any used product in detail next time before committing to a purchase.

sidshock

Apr 25th, 2009, 04:57 AM

Marc

Apr 25th, 2009, 11:13 AM

sidshock

Apr 25th, 2009, 11:55 AM

Just to reiterate what others have already said, there's a certain risk assumed when purchasing second-hand goods. The seller did more than enough to make the buyer comfortable with the sale.

I know the seller personally and he feels pretty bad about this deal. But if there were no known issues with the unit when it was sold, what's he to do?

it was hardly visible on an SDTV, that's why it wasn't noticed. It's not something I caused or damaged the Wii to do after the fact. It was realized 2 hrs later when I got it on my hdtv.
whatever man.. this is a stupid game....
more and more it lead me to believe he knew what he sold me.
has an HDTV in the house, has component cables for it, etc... but it's displayed on the sdtv with RCA cables, then tells me I should have asked about artifacts and it's my fault I didn't research it enough, and not catch the problem in time, etc...
Then tells me his dad doesn't like the HDTV used for games at all.. but uh.. has component cables? what for..?
yaya.. he knew it, I missed it, I got screwed...
lets drop it before I get more pissed.

k__dam

Apr 25th, 2009, 12:23 PM

it was hardly visible on an SDTV, that's why it wasn't noticed. It's not something I caused or damaged the Wii to do after the fact. It was realized 2 hrs later when I got it on my hdtv.
whatever man.. this is a stupid game....
more and more it lead me to believe he knew what he sold me.
has an HDTV in the house, has component cables for it, etc... but it's displayed on the sdtv with RCA cables, then tells me I should have asked about artifacts and it's my fault I didn't research it enough, and not catch the problem in time, etc...
Then tells me his dad doesn't like the HDTV used for games at all.. but uh.. has component cables? what for..?
yaya.. he knew it, I missed it, I got screwed...
lets drop it before I get more pissed.

I've had transactions with more people and money in the past, you think i would try to scam you for a measly $250?

No matter the outcome, my name and reputation has taken a hit because you assume too many possibilities and outcome. Yes i had component cables, and do you remember me saying this wii wasnt bought by me, and that it was a gift? Am i supposed to throw away the component cables because it wasnt being used?

I repeat, i am not here on rfd/craigslist/kijij/hofo/clubrsx/8thcivic etc to scam others. I am a legit b/s/t member and have been for a long time.

I agree this issue should be dropped, but i had to defend my status because you are making outrageous claims in which you do not have any proof

sparco

Apr 25th, 2009, 12:36 PM

IMO, the seller gave the buyer every opportunity "MAKE SURE" that everything was in working order.

E.G; You go to garage sale and decide to buy something electronic cause the guy is moving. Most likely you will try it to see if it works. If you like it, agree to its condition and know there are risks of no warranty whatsoever, you buy it. If you find out the next week the product is faulty, you cant just return it, the seller is gone.

The buyer knew the risks, especially in regards to artifacts. Why did you not inspect carefully? Unless the seller told you specifically, there were no artifacts, then he should not have to replace it for you. The buyer took a chance, unfortunately the buyer is at fault.

*Ive been a similar situation, and i had a problem with an LCD screen, At the time I was particularly keen about dead pixels and lcd damage. The guy said there was none. When i received it there was a black smudged on the lcd, he then agree on accepting a return, since he made that guarantee that there werent any.

Sorry OP, hopefully its a lesson learnt.

GSter

Apr 25th, 2009, 01:35 PM

I'm just gunna do something negative, that I don't want to...
Rent a unit from BBV and swap the inside. At least that way no one else gets this one passed along... just a renter that goes back to BBV anyways.

you know that by doing that, you are becoming the SCAMMER, right?

my god. Just keep whatever dignity you have left and just learn the lesson.

This just makes me retract what I said in the earlier post that I think you are a good person.:mad:

Mark099

Apr 25th, 2009, 02:38 PM

I've had transactions with more people and money in the past, you think i would try to scam you for a measly $250?

No matter the outcome, my name and reputation has taken a hit because you assume too many possibilities and outcome. Yes i had component cables, and do you remember me saying this wii wasnt bought by me, and that it was a gift? Am i supposed to throw away the component cables because it wasnt being used?

I repeat, i am not here on rfd/craigslist/kijij/hofo/clubrsx/8thcivic etc to scam others. I am a legit b/s/t member and have been for a long time.

I agree this issue should be dropped, but i had to defend my status because you are making outrageous claims in which you do not have any proof

People have been scammed for less money than $250. It seems to me that you are talking out of both sides of your mouth, which is not a good thing. You slammed the buyer for not "testing" the Wii properly, for not knowing the common issues, and for not asking the "right" questions.

Yet, you claim to not even know what artifacts are?

Yes, you should've asked me since your should've done your research and look for any problems associated with a used nintendo wii, and i would've gave you the same answer, which was, "what is artifacts?"

I am not aware of these problems myself, i even told you i havnt been looking into the wii for a very long time. Most of the basic questions you asked me went unasnwered because i didnt know, such as;

1. what firmware am i running?
2. which modchip do i have (which i guessed right, but wasnt sure)

Even if he asked you the "right" questions, it sound like he would NOT have got the "right" answers from you because you either don't know or weren't prepared to be truthful.

You have admitted that you are not a Wii expert, yet, you expect every buyer to be one? And, that's your defense? Whether you had knowledge of the defect or not, the defect occurred while the Wii was in your possession.

After all, the Wii could have been defective on the day you bought it. You didn't ask all the "right" questions of the original seller or do any research as to probable issues for yourself. You owe the buyer a refund.

Just to reiterate what others have already said, there's a certain risk assumed when purchasing second-hand goods. The seller did more than enough to make the buyer comfortable with the sale.

I know the seller personally and he feels pretty bad about this deal. But if there were no known issues with the unit when it was sold, what's he to do?

The seller only feels bad because he got caught. Yes, there is a risk of buying second hand electronics. However, the risk should be that it may only last a month or two more, not that it's defective for a period of time before you even buy something.

The fact is, your friend is even less aware about issues surrounding the Wii than the buyer. Even if the buyer asked all the "right" questions, your friend could not have given him all the "right" answers. That alone is the basis for the refund.

mmmken

Apr 25th, 2009, 02:49 PM

The seller only feels bad because he got caught. Yes, there is a risk of buying second hand electronics. However, the risk should be that it may only last a month or two more, not that it's defective for a period of time before you even buy something.

Where is this implied, or explicitly stated? I'd like to know what set of "assumed general agreements" is used in your world?

AFAIC, there are no implied warranties or guarantees of any kind with a private sale (of used goods) unless explicitly stated. Heard of caveat emptor? As per a judgment made by the Supreme Court of Canada (http://csc.lexum.umontreal.ca/en/1995/1995rcs1-85/1995rcs1-85.html), you are wrong.

k__dam

Apr 25th, 2009, 02:49 PM

Even if he asked you the "right" questions, it sound like he would NOT have got the "right" answers from you because you either don't know or weren't prepared to be truthful.

You have admitted that you are not a Wii expert, yet, you expect every buyer to be one? And, that's your defense? Whether you had knowledge of the defect or not, the defect occurred while the Wii was in your possession.

How do i know he didnt tamper with it?

Its obvious im not expecting everyone to be experts with their purchases, but how abbout taking the time to make sure you know what you are buying?

Like the other poster said, he bought a lcd screen and he knew what signs to look for because he did his homework

The fact is, your friend is even less aware about issues surrounding the Wii than the buyer. Even if the buyer asked all the "right" questions, your friend could not have given him all the "right" answers. That alone is the basis for the refund.

The buyer had every right and time to inspect the wii, in which he barely did. There were no known issues and it was stated to him. So are you saying every seller should be experts at what they are selling? Really? How many times do we see a father selling laptop/ipod/electronics for their kids, with little to no knowledge. It is still on the buyer to make sure he knows what he's buying

Aj23

Apr 25th, 2009, 02:53 PM

k__dam

Apr 25th, 2009, 03:00 PM

Seems like everyone is with the seller here, but I have to say I'm on the buyers side. Something similar happened to me with an xbox 360, and the seller was truly an A**hole to me once he got my money. He was the kind of guy who completely scammed every retail store to make a few dollars of buying a product, and switching with a broken one. Anyways, in the end, after talking it over with him I got him to refund my money, which I thought was the right thing to do in the situation, as I had not done anything to the product, but it wasn't as he had told me.

You are assuming i lied and knew there were problems from the get go and tried to hide the fact. To my knowlege, it was a 100% working nintendo wii.

If the seller is truly a good guy, he will refund the buyer and everything will be back to normal. Look at some of the other RFD sellers here, they even refunded lost shipments to the buyers, despite the tracking (as long as there was good feedback on both sides, and the buyer was trust worthy).

Good luck to the OP.

Theres a fine line between being a good guy, and getting pushed over/bullied. And how would this return things to normal? I will be out $250 and with a defective wii in which he could've caused.

OP offered to show me the serial in the wii matches the exterior, that does not prove he didnt tamper with it.

mcg

Apr 25th, 2009, 03:08 PM

My opinion - partial refund.

Given the circumstances, buyer had great feedback and sidshock probably laid off on testing it thoroughly since I assume he wouldn't expect any problems.

It is unreasonable to expect the buyer to do such extensive research before buying it, especially when it comes to this type of problem. I've owned a Wii for 2 years and I never knew the ATI card in the Wii would artifact until now. If I were sidshock I'd be furious if someone told me I should have known better about every possible problem a game console could have.

I see that both of you guys are honest and long-time members of this forum so I think it is safe to say that the seller had no knowledge of the problem (either he couldn't see the artifacting on the TV), and that the buyer didn't tamper with it at home.

From what I know about GPU artifacting, it isn't caused by tampering and is mainly attributed to 1) overheating or 2) overclocking. The only tampering I know of is if you feed more volts into the core for higher OC potential, and from there the problem stems. I have never heard of anyone doing this to a Wii.

Thoughts?

Mark099

Apr 25th, 2009, 03:13 PM

How do i know he didnt tamper with it?

Its obvious im not expecting everyone to be experts with their purchases, but how about taking the time to make sure you know what you are buying?

Like the other poster said, he bought a lcd screen and he knew what signs to look for because he did his homework.

The buyer had every right and time to inspect the wii, in which he barely did. There were no known issues and it was stated to him. So are you saying every seller should be experts at what they are selling? Really?

Because he contacted you within hours, not days or weeks. How does he know you didn't tamper with it and cause the defect for yourself?

Funny, he seems to know more about what he's buying than you know about what you're selling.

So you are saying, on one hand the buyer is wrong because he should have known what to look for and ask, while on the other hand he was smart to hook it up to an HDTV so he could test for any defects more thoroughly? Both sides of the mouth again.

Did you want him to sit and test all the Wii games in your house for hours? Well, there are known issues. Whether you knew about them at the time that's up for further debate.

If the seller is going to use the "he didn't ask the right questions" excuse for selling defective merchandise, then the seller should be properly prepared to answer all the "right" questions. If he asked you if there were any artifacts, you stated your first answer would have been "what are artifacts"? Your next answer would have been, no!

You basically said, "why would I ruin my rep for $250?" Well, guess what? You are ruining your rep for $250.

k__dam

Apr 25th, 2009, 03:19 PM

If he asked you if there were any artifacts, you stated your first answer would have been "what are artifacts"? Your next answer would have been, no!

And you assume i would say 'no' because?????

How do i know he didnt swap my wii for a defective one? And in circles we go

I told the OP, if this falls into the category for small claims court, then let it be that. If not, i am firm on my decision.

lets drop it before I get more pissed.

I agree this issue should be dropped

We finally did agree on something, now its up to him to file a claim if he so chooses, in either case i believe i am doing the right thing and the law is on my side

Mark099

Apr 25th, 2009, 03:34 PM

Where is this implied, or explicitly stated? I'd like to know what set of "assumed general agreements" is used in your world?

AFAIC, there are no implied warranties or guarantees of any kind with a private sale (of used goods) unless explicitly stated. Heard of caveat emptor? As per a judgment made by the Supreme Court of Canada (http://csc.lexum.umontreal.ca/en/1995/1995rcs1-85/1995rcs1-85.html), you are wrong.

I am not talking about implied warranty. The seller says he was not aware of any defects, therefore, the Wii should at least function properly on the day it's sold.

The reality, there were defects detected with more thorough testing and there is no reason not to believe the Wii was defective before it was sold.

You are assuming i lied and knew there were problems from the get go and tried to hide the fact. To my knowlege, it was a 100% working nintendo wii.

Theres a fine line between being a good guy, and getting pushed over/bullied. And how would this return things to normal? I will be out $250 and with a defective wii in which he could've caused.

OP offered to show me the serial in the wii matches the exterior, that does not prove he didnt tamper with it.

Sadly, your knowledge of the product you were selling is lacking. You do not know what artifacts are, nor would you be able to identify them whether seen previously or not. Artifacts may not always be present in game play because they can be heat generated and dependent on how long the Wii is in use for. Given that the artifacts could have been present several days, weeks, or months before but not noticed by you doesn't make it the buyers fault.

You are not out $250. Currently, the buyer is. You sold a defective Wii that nobody would have knowingly given you $250 for.

The fact that the buyer made a request for the tool to open the Wii means he doesn't have the tool. So, how could have he tampered with it? You have the tool, don't you?

My opinion - partial refund.

Given the circumstances, buyer had great feedback and sidshock probably laid off on testing it thoroughly since I assume he wouldn't expect any problems.

It is unreasonable to expect the buyer to do such extensive research before buying it, especially when it comes to this type of problem. I've owned a Wii for 2 years and I never knew the ATI card in the Wii would artifact until now. If I were sidshock I'd be furious if someone told me I should have known better about every possible problem a game console could have.

I see that both of you guys are honest and long-time members of this forum so I think it is safe to say that the seller had no knowledge of the problem (either he couldn't see the artifacting on the TV), and that the buyer didn't tamper with it at home.

From what I know about GPU artifacting, it isn't caused by tampering and is mainly attributed to 1) overheating or 2) overclocking. The only tampering I know of is if you feed more volts into the core for higher OC potential, and from there the problem stems. I have never heard of anyone doing this to a Wii.

Thoughts?

Based on your reasoning, the seller should take the Wii back and issue a refund.

Mark099

Apr 25th, 2009, 03:50 PM

And you assume i would say 'no' because?????

How do i know he didnt swap my wii for a defective one? And in circles we go

I told the OP, if this falls into the category for small claims court, then let it be that. If not, i am firm on my decision.

We finally did agree on something, now its up to him to file a claim if he so chooses, in either case i believe i am doing the right thing and the law is on my side

Because you have stated more than once that the Wii was working properly when you sold it. Because if your answer was yes then you would be admitting that you knew the Wii was defective. Are you now saying you were actually aware of the artifacting? You need to be careful what you say, you are looking worse with every post you make.

We are not going in circles because with each post you reveal more and more about yourself.

Forcing people to take you to court is just a sign that you have knowingly screwed somebody. Did you know that the $250 claim in small claims court would grow to about $600 with filing fees and interest charges? Not to mention, the potential to lose a day or two of work? Your defense of "he didn't ask the right questions" will not fly in small claims court. Your posts in this forum could also be used as evidence against you -- especially, the "you can't assume I would say no" line!

k__dam

Apr 25th, 2009, 03:56 PM

Because you have stated more than once that the Wii was working properly when you sold it. Because if your answer was yes then you would be admitting that you knew the Wii was defective. Are you now saying you were actually aware of the artifacting? You need to be careful what you say, you are looking worse with every post you make.

We are not going in circles because with each post you reveal more and more about yourself.

Forcing people to take you to court is just a sign that you have knowingly screwed somebody. Did you know that the $250 claim in small claims court would grow to about $600 with filing fees and interest charges? Not to mention, the potential to lose a day or two of work? Your defense of "he didn't ask the right questions" will not fly in small claims court. Your posts in this forum could also be used as evidence against you -- especially, the "you can't assume I would say no" line!

No, the question isnt a simple yes or no answer, simply because i do not know what artifacting is. How can i answer that question? Only way to find out if there are artifacts is to show it.

Like most of the responses in this thread, the buyer did not test it in the way to show there were artifacts. If i knew about them, i would've stated it, period.

Now this thread has turned into a me vs you thing, the OP and I will be deciding wha the neccessary steps will be.

Everything has been said, time to enjoy whats left of the sunshine.

Mark099

Apr 25th, 2009, 04:01 PM

No, the question isnt a simple yes or no answer, simply because i do not know what artifacting is. How can i answer that question? Only way to find out if there are artifacts is to show it.

Like most of the responses in this thread, the buyer did not test it in the way to show there were artifacts. If i knew about them, i would've stated it, period.

Now this thread has turned into a me vs you thing, the OP and I will be deciding wha the neccessary steps will be.

Everything has been said.

The only thing left for you to say is that "I have decided to give the buyer a refund"!

GSter

Apr 25th, 2009, 04:09 PM

reading and replying to thread is just plain useless. posters are just adding fire to a simple issue or seller-buyer-not-knowing-the-issues before buying.

I would strongly suggest the seller and buyer to just discuss it among yourselves and not listen to any body else who does not know a thing about what really happenned.

the issue is so simple, it should not come to a point like this.

mcg

Apr 25th, 2009, 05:39 PM

Mark099

Apr 25th, 2009, 06:26 PM

^ It was decided k__dam wouldn't be giving a refund from the first post, that is why sidshock took it to the forums so we can offer our opinions.

I am sure the community has more experience and can give advice which usually results in a good outcome.

I agree. PMs rarely result in a satisfactory outcome. It's usually peer pressure that ensures people do the right things.

The seller sold a defective Wii. Whether he knew it or not, he should man up and not keep screwing the buyer.

mmmken

Apr 25th, 2009, 06:36 PM

I am not talking about implied warranty. The seller says he was not aware of any defects, therefore, the Wii should at least function properly on the day it's sold.

The reality, there were defects detected with more thorough testing and there is no reason not to believe the Wii was defective before it was sold.

Yes, you are. Any transaction without an explicit statement of a guarantee or warranty is "at your own risk". From my knowledge, k_dam did not offer any sort of guarantee - but allowed sidshock to test out the unit at his place of residence.

Sidshock should have tested it thoroughly and he didn't. It would be different had k_dam not offered to allow for a test before purchase, or immediately refuse a test on a HDTV - but he did. It sucks that he's out $250, but that's life.

Mark099

Apr 25th, 2009, 07:27 PM

Yes, you are. Any transaction without an explicit statement of a guarantee or warranty is "at your own risk". From my knowledge, k_dam did not offer any sort of guarantee - but allowed sidshock to test out the unit at his place of residence.

Sidshock should have tested it thoroughly and he didn't. It would be different had k_dam not offered to allow for a test before purchase, or immediately refuse a test on a HDTV - but he did. It sucks that he's out $250, but that's life.

No, I am not. The only thing that's implied is that the Wii works properly on the day it's sold. Considering the seller was not aware of artifacting or was in a position or have a setup to identify the artifacting means that the Wii was defective prior to the sale. Most people know that heat or a manufacture defect cause artifacting (except the seller). If generated by heat, it could take several minutes to hours before the artifacting occurs. The Wii was portrayed as being in proper working order.

The buyers risk should be that the Wii dies tomorrow, not that it's defective before you even buy it with the defect essentially being hidden. I have sold over 100 items online. I would say that maybe 15 times someone actually asked me if the parts I were selling were in 100% working order. Does that mean the other 85+ times I could sell them broken crap? No, if I don't state I am selling a defective product I have no right to sell a defective product (for the price of a working product) just because the buyer didn't ask me the "right" questions.

Got to love this... it's okay for the seller to rip the buyer off for $250, but a restaurant adds $3 extra to your $250 dinner bill and the police have to get involved....

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=501736

I guess you didn't ask the right questions before dining?

sidshock

Apr 25th, 2009, 11:15 PM

thanks mark, but seriously, forget it...
He only wants to protect himself one for all and one for one attitude.
That's why we live in a cut-throat world.
In all honesty, if I was the seller in a similar situation, I prob. would give a refund, or not attempt to sell a damaged wii without it being mentioned.
I'm sure he'll have 100 counter arguements for this.
The truth is, when he grows up with this attitude, he will see it pays less in the long run. It's life...

lets drop it as the seller does not get both sides of the issue, and does not place himself in my shoes ( if he were me ) to deduce which side makes more sense, as I did think about it from his prespective. when I first txt'd him about the issue, he right away jumped on the Due Diligence arguement. Someone that gets defensive with law type terms off the bat is defensive for a reason.

People have been scammed for less money than $250. It seems to me that you are talking out of both sides of your mouth, which is not a good thing. You slammed the buyer for not "testing" the Wii properly, for not knowing the common issues, and for not asking the "right" questions.

Yet, you claim to not even know what artifacts are?

Even if he asked you the "right" questions, it sound like he would NOT have got the "right" answers from you because you either don't know or weren't prepared to be truthful.

You have admitted that you are not a Wii expert, yet, you expect every buyer to be one? And, that's your defense? Whether you had knowledge of the defect or not, the defect occurred while the Wii was in your possession.

After all, the Wii could have been defective on the day you bought it. You didn't ask all the "right" questions of the original seller or do any research as to probable issues for yourself. You owe the buyer a refund.

The seller only feels bad because he got caught. Yes, there is a risk of buying second hand electronics. However, the risk should be that it may only last a month or two more, not that it's defective for a period of time before you even buy something.

The fact is, your friend is even less aware about issues surrounding the Wii than the buyer. Even if the buyer asked all the "right" questions, your friend could not have given him all the "right" answers. That alone is the basis for the refund.

sidshock

Apr 25th, 2009, 11:20 PM

when I first txt'd you I even said you prob. didn't notice it because of your SDTV if that is all you really played it on, I dunno. But I was more on giving you the benefit of the doubt.. You were, off the bat, about due diligence and me tampering with it.
Your defensive and harsh attitude with those statements so early on lead me to "feel" more and more like you knew. since I have no proof, it's a feeling I am willing to drop it. You won, be happy, lets drop it. I'm the bad guy for not knowing to look for such an uncommon problem with wii's on an SDTV. Next time, I will carry my HDTV in the trunk.

How do i know he didnt tamper with it?

Its obvious im not expecting everyone to be experts with their purchases, but how abbout taking the time to make sure you know what you are buying?

Like the other poster said, he bought a lcd screen and he knew what signs to look for because he did his homework

The buyer had every right and time to inspect the wii, in which he barely did. There were no known issues and it was stated to him. So are you saying every seller should be experts at what they are selling? Really? How many times do we see a father selling laptop/ipod/electronics for their kids, with little to no knowledge. It is still on the buyer to make sure he knows what he's buying

sidshock

Apr 25th, 2009, 11:25 PM

honestly, he is not that type of guy to see it on the other foot.
I 'd feel too bad about re-selling it in such a condition to some poor shmo, esp. since it will prob. go to a daughter or son, etc... as it's great for kids.
I dunno, maybe I will remove the wiikey, and see how much nintendo wants to repair it, or talk 'em into warranty.
He's not gunna budge, and I've come to terms with that so it's useless.

Seems like everyone is with the seller here, but I have to say I'm on the buyers side. Something similar happened to me with an xbox 360, and the seller was truly an A**hole to me once he got my money. He was the kind of guy who completely scammed every retail store to make a few dollars of buying a product, and switching with a broken one. Anyways, in the end, after talking it over with him I got him to refund my money, which I thought was the right thing to do in the situation, as I had not done anything to the product, but it wasn't as he had told me.

If the seller is truly a good guy, he will refund the buyer and everything will be back to normal. Look at some of the other RFD sellers here, they even refunded lost shipments to the buyers, despite the tracking (as long as there was good feedback on both sides, and the buyer was trust worthy).

Good luck to the OP.

sidshock

Apr 25th, 2009, 11:29 PM

most rational answer here MCG..
it is exactly what I thought. his feedback was great, and that is why I was even gunna meet him at Timmy's as he originally wanted when I first offered to come to his place. since I figured if there was an issue he would assume responsibility for a defective item. I only started thinking he was guilty of knowing when he quite quickly accused me of tampering with it over some TXT's we had... and then told me I should have asked about artifacting, etc...
Everything you said in this quote I was thinking, and that is exactly what set me off... that I didn't ask the "right" questions.

My opinion - partial refund.

Given the circumstances, buyer had great feedback and sidshock probably laid off on testing it thoroughly since I assume he wouldn't expect any problems.

It is unreasonable to expect the buyer to do such extensive research before buying it, especially when it comes to this type of problem. I've owned a Wii for 2 years and I never knew the ATI card in the Wii would artifact until now. If I were sidshock I'd be furious if someone told me I should have known better about every possible problem a game console could have.

I see that both of you guys are honest and long-time members of this forum so I think it is safe to say that the seller had no knowledge of the problem (either he couldn't see the artifacting on the TV), and that the buyer didn't tamper with it at home.

From what I know about GPU artifacting, it isn't caused by tampering and is mainly attributed to 1) overheating or 2) overclocking. The only tampering I know of is if you feed more volts into the core for higher OC potential, and from there the problem stems. I have never heard of anyone doing this to a Wii.

Thoughts?

sidshock

Apr 25th, 2009, 11:45 PM

i already know morality and doing the right thing is out with him.. that is why I said he won. I will deal with it, etc...
and you seem to be in favour of protecting only yourself and not both parties for a smooth transaction. So you would obviously do the same as the seller here.

the bottom line is, I can't prove I didn't tamper with it as it DID leave his house and out of his eyes. What bothered me is how quickly he accused me of not doing my due diligence and how I didn't ask the right questions, and that led me to further think how it was conveniently setup on an SDTV only, and all the rest of the bs and legal terms, like take him to court, etc.. he has flung at me in these posts.
I let it sit for a good while to see if it will artifact when it was cool, and it did, right away, so I am assuming this problem has been with the wii for awhile as it has damaged the chip due to long term overheating from what I have read.
I even found a post, that is up on page 1 at the begining of my posts how another guy had the exact same experience about playing on an SDTV and then trying it on a 50" plasma and noticing the problem.. I was like, F... that is exactly what happened to me. So the only issue here is did I tamper with it? like I said, I can't prove I didn't other than my word. So yeah, he wins in that respect. Like I said, I am just unhappy with the attitude about due diligence, right questions, so early on. His first txt to me was he never new that there was a problem with it.
his SECOND txt was telling me how did he not know if I opened it and swapped stuff out, and tampered with it???
and right after, his third was how I didn't do my due diligence. He got defensive about it ASAP. That, for one, PISSED me off!! and made him more guilty than not in my eyes from experience and what I've seen in general in similar situations.

Yes, you are. Any transaction without an explicit statement of a guarantee or warranty is "at your own risk". From my knowledge, k_dam did not offer any sort of guarantee - but allowed sidshock to test out the unit at his place of residence.

Sidshock should have tested it thoroughly and he didn't. It would be different had k_dam not offered to allow for a test before purchase, or immediately refuse a test on a HDTV - but he did. It sucks that he's out $250, but that's life.

sidshock

Apr 25th, 2009, 11:47 PM

yes, throw more legalities my way... are you 2 brothers and not just friends/acquaintances as you mentioned earlier in a post?

Yes, you are. Any transaction without an explicit statement of a guarantee or warranty is "at your own risk". From my knowledge, k_dam did not offer any sort of guarantee - but allowed sidshock to test out the unit at his place of residence.

Sidshock should have tested it thoroughly and he didn't. It would be different had k_dam not offered to allow for a test before purchase, or immediately refuse a test on a HDTV - but he did. It sucks that he's out $250, but that's life.

sidshock

Apr 25th, 2009, 11:54 PM

and for a SWEET bonus, he was gunna include 60 backups... Then he decided against it because he said he didn't want to risk "legal" issues with me!! I didn't think of this until now, but that makes me think EVEN MORE that he was aware of the issue, and realized that when and IF I noticed it that I might be able to use that against him, esp. if it were to go to a small claims court as he told me to take him to. So he prob. realized that as he played out scenarios in his head and held back on the backups, which I was fine with not having. He had it advertised with backups originally though and agreed to include them, only changed his mind after, and called me specifically to tell me he can't include them...

Jon Lai

Apr 25th, 2009, 11:59 PM

Honestly, both sides are in the wrong here. I think it's pretty obvious the unit was defective before it was sold. Whether or not the OP knew about this is a non-issue. The buyer had the chance to check it but didn't check thoroughly enough because of the limitations there. He contacted OP within hours of getting the deal done.

There's no onus on OP, but as a good trader, I think OP should give $50 back to OP as a sign of good will. Had you found out anyways, you would needed to sell the unit for less anyways.

syntex101

Apr 26th, 2009, 12:05 AM

Deception:
1. X deceives Y if and only if X cause Y to believe in P via some means, (in this case it is omission of the deficit)
2. P is false
3. X known or ought to have know P is false

X = buyer
Y = seller

Obvious case of deception. It is hard for one to imagine someone with a modded wii and the intricate workings of how to get "backup games", without them knowing about defects that OP mentioned.

Added on top of that is the fact that he immediately jumped onto the blame game when OP called him to inform of this defect. Sounds like the defense mechanisms of a scammer kicking in action.

mmmken

Apr 26th, 2009, 01:19 AM

yes, throw more legalities my way... are you 2 brothers and not just friends/acquaintances as you mentioned earlier in a post?

I've never met him in person, but he does frequent another site I frequent on as well. All opinions stated are my own, and have not been influenced by anyone else. You (and a few others) did introduce a few good points though, and it does seem like there was some sort of deception here.

A partial refund as suggested by mcg does seem like the best solution at the moment, given the circumstances. Although it is the moral solution, the seller is not legally obligated to do so.

sidshock

Apr 26th, 2009, 03:10 AM

I've never met him in person, but he does frequent another site I frequent on as well. All opinions stated are my own, and have not been influenced by anyone else. You (and a few others) did introduce a few good points though, and it does seem like there was some sort of deception here.

A partial refund as suggested by mcg does seem like the best solution at the moment, given the circumstances. Although it is the moral solution, the seller is not legally obligated to do so.

honestly, I've settled down about it. It was the initial shock of you didn't ask the right questions, due diligence, take me to court that set me off, and it's over. Live and learn. $250 bucks is just that, $250 bucks. It was more of the convenience factor for me, as it has a wiikey in it, etc... as it is(was) for a friend and that was the reason I offered $250 instead of $280, his asking price, to get my pal a good deal.
It's over he's said he's not doing any refund, and I accepted that in previous posts here, I just needed to vent on the way this deal went. I'm not even gunna give him neg. feedback.

Mark099

Apr 26th, 2009, 06:23 PM

most rational answer here MCG..
it is exactly what I thought. his feedback was great, and that is why I was even gunna meet him at Timmy's as he originally wanted when I first offered to come to his place. since I figured if there was an issue he would assume responsibility for a defective item. I only started thinking he was guilty of knowing when he quite quickly accused me of tampering with it over some TXT's we had... and then told me I should have asked about artifacting, etc...
Everything you said in this quote I was thinking, and that is exactly what set me off... that I didn't ask the "right" questions.

You didn't check his feedback closely enough. Most of his feedback is as a buyer. Any idiot can pay money without causing too many issues. The key is to focus on sales and the potential value of the deals. Good buyers do not always make good sellers. Your best and most trustworthy traders will be mostly sellers, and of high end parts.

honestly, I've settled down about it. It was the initial shock of you didn't ask the right questions, due diligence, take me to court that set me off, and it's over. Live and learn. $250 bucks is just that, $250 bucks. It was more of the convenience factor for me, as it has a wiikey in it, etc... as it is(was) for a friend and that was the reason I offered $250 instead of $280, his asking price, to get my pal a good deal.
It's over he's said he's not doing any refund, and I accepted that in previous posts here, I just needed to vent on the way this deal went. I'm not even gunna give him neg. feedback.

I would take the kid to court. Although, you may want to try to talk to his parents first. Perhaps, there could be some common ground for you and his parents to find.

As for feedback... you have to give negative feedback! Here, heatware, and whereever else -- except eBay. Make sure you link this thread in your feedback.

thephenom

Apr 27th, 2009, 02:37 PM

Mark099

Apr 27th, 2009, 04:31 PM

This sounds kind of stupid with all the finger pointing game. The seller let the buyer checked out the unit at his house. The buyer had the chance to test all he wanted. If he was a fraud, he wouldn't allow the buyer to test out the unit.

Now the buyer complained about testing on SDTV and not HDTV. What does that have to do with anything???? Wii outputs at 480p, any SDTV will display all the pixels at 1:1 mapping. If you can't see pixels properly on a 32" TV, you might want to get your eyes checked out. With component vs RCA on the Wii, I've tried both before, they still offer same 480p resolution, but offer only some colour/image improvements. On a HDTV, the TV does the scaling, and you're no longer doing 1:1 pixel mapping on a 720p or a 1080p screen. And you'll introduce scaling distortion and perhaps scaling artifacts.

Let's put it this way. I've bought a couple of LCD panels on RFD before, some sellers allow me to test it at their house, others don't. The ones that allow me to test in their house, I will do all the steps necessary to check for dead pixels, stuck pixels, etc etc. It is the buyer's responsibility to find these things since the seller might or might not know about it. If I get a dead pixel a few hours later, I won't hold the seller responsible.

I find it hard to believe that all of you would walk away from $250 if you were the buyer. Heck, there's mmmken, who says the buyer is out of luck, but then complains because a restaurant added a tip on top of the taxes costing him an extra $3 on a $250+ dinner bill. There was shouting, the police got involved, and the thread is still alive after a year and a half all over $3.

I think most of the testing time was dependent on the perceived honestly of the seller. Why would you spend 3 hours in a stranger's house testing a machine if you were expecting that he was telling the truth about the working condition of the Wii? Plus, both parties have pretty much stipulated that the artifacting is not as noticeable on a SDTV. Your LCD analogy doesn't work unless you are forced to look for dead pixels in standard definition.

thephenom

Apr 27th, 2009, 05:54 PM

I find it hard to believe that all of you would walk away from $250 if you were the buyer. Heck, there's mmmken, who says the buyer is out of luck, but then complains because a restaurant added a tip on top of the taxes costing him an extra $3 on a $250+ dinner bill. There was shouting, the police got involved, and the thread is still alive after a year and a half all over $3.

I think most of the testing time was dependent on the perceived honestly of the seller. Why would you spend 3 hours in a stranger's house testing a machine if you were expecting that he was telling the truth about the working condition of the Wii? Plus, both parties have pretty much stipulated that the artifacting is not as noticeable on a SDTV. Your LCD analogy doesn't work unless you are forced to look for dead pixels in standard definition.
All I'm saying is that the Wii outputs 480p no matter what you hook it up to. It doesn't change the signal out whether you hook it up to a SDTV or a HDTV, it'll still output at 640x480. If the problem is ONLY seen with the HDTV and not the SDTV, it can very well indicate a problem with the scaler built into the TV whether it's a scaling artifact, a scaling distortion, or something else. The easy way to check this is to force the HDTV to run at 1:1 ratio, and not scaled to full screen or maintain aspect ratio. As a seller, how are you supposed to guarantee that a console will work well with every screen out there with different signal receivers, image processor, and different scaler chips?

Now of course I don't know whether the seller knew there was or wasn't a defect on the unit, but I'm just saying if there was no artifact on the SDTV when the buyer checked, then it could very well be something else. And don't you think it's also a buyer's responsibility to check out the item properly for things the seller might not have noticed, instead of what the buyer did, "on his SDTV 32 or 37" I forget, I didn't notice it." If the seller really just plays his Wii on his SDTV with RCA cable, how is he supposed to know that his Wii artifacts on a HDTV with component cable.

I would be upset of $250 if I was the buyer, but if I'm a seller, and I'm selling something that to my best knowledge is in mint condition, I would be upset as well. Especially if I gave the chance for the buyer to inspect on the spot and sold as mint, but only to have the buyer call me a cheat a day or two later. I'll skip over my LCD example and use another one. I only play with my PS3 with HDMI on my LCD, I've never used it on my plasma in my living room, nor have I used it on my old CRT TV. How would I ever know whether all the connections (RCA, SPDI/F, Component, etc) work or not, I only play games at 720p or 1080p, how would I know whether it works at 1080i or 480p? If I decide to sell it, should I try to protect myself as a seller to only specifically say "I have only used the HDMI conection on the PS3 on my model of LCD at a specific setting. Anything else deviated from my setup is not guaranteed to work."

Too long of a post, I'll just make a short cliff assuming both the buyer and seller are honest individuals:
1. Instead of pointing fingers and making accusations, why not try to diagnose the problem to be more constructive.
2. If there was no artifacts on the seller's SDTV, then it's not a defective Wii. And if it was, and you didn't notice, I would say that's your fault.
3. To confirm this, the buyer should test the Wii at SD resolution (ie disable picture/image scaling), and/or try it out with RCA on your TV.
4. Perhaps a more in-depth explaination of artifacts (ie every game artifacts after X minutes/hours, only in certain games, etc)

Mark099

Apr 27th, 2009, 06:13 PM

If the seller really just plays his Wii on his SDTV with RCA cable, how is he supposed to know that his Wii artifacts on a HDTV with component cable.

He's not supposed to know if that's the case. However, the seller would be expected to act more apporpriately (i.e. fairly towards the buyer) when the Wii was tested on HD with component cables and found to be artifacting.

sidshock

Apr 27th, 2009, 06:38 PM

at the risk of NOT making this a technical game and start pointing out the differences to you, here is a link that is in my FIRST POST here...
http://www.bestplasmascreensblog.com/530/artifacts-on-screen/
^^^^ read it, it is only 20 seconds of your life
EXACT same experience as me!

And yes, even with RCA cables on my LCD TV it is very noticable, not just component.
I found it funny he had components for 2 years for a wii that he never used?
if he did get them with the wii and was never gunna use them, wouldn't he dump/sell/give to a friend by now?
I dunno, it sounds to me like he did use it on HDTV and knew about the artifacting more and more each time.

This sounds kind of stupid with all the finger pointing game. The seller let the buyer checked out the unit at his house. The buyer had the chance to test all he wanted. If he was a fraud, he wouldn't allow the buyer to test out the unit.

Now the buyer complained about testing on SDTV and not HDTV. What does that have to do with anything???? Wii outputs at 480p, any SDTV will display all the pixels at 1:1 mapping. If you can't see pixels properly on a 32" TV, you might want to get your eyes checked out. With component vs RCA on the Wii, I've tried both before, they still offer same 480p resolution, but offer only some colour/image improvements. On a HDTV, the TV does the scaling, and you're no longer doing 1:1 pixel mapping on a 720p or a 1080p screen. And you'll introduce scaling distortion and perhaps scaling artifacts.

Let's put it this way. I've bought a couple of LCD panels on RFD before, some sellers allow me to test it at their house, others don't. The ones that allow me to test in their house, I will do all the steps necessary to check for dead pixels, stuck pixels, etc etc. It is the buyer's responsibility to find these things since the seller might or might not know about it. If I get a dead pixel a few hours later, I won't hold the seller responsible.

megalison

Apr 27th, 2009, 06:54 PM

Ok, after reading all 4 pages, these are my conclusions:

1. Buyer wants a refund.
2. Seller will not give a refund.
3. Both are adamant about what they believe.

Final conclusion: Nothing is going to happen on the internet, buyer should just get this into small claims and they will decide what's fair and what isn't.

sidshock

Apr 27th, 2009, 07:00 PM

So I was msg'd here by the seller that he feels I am in the wrong to leave negative feedback.
I have agreed, as I msg'd him back telling him I would like to let you guys, the majority decide.

I have included the original msg he sent me, and my reply, and based on this, and the thread, whatever feedback you guys, the majority, want me to be final with on this transaction, I will accept.
Here it is his msg to me first:

-------------------------------------------
You have received a new Negative rating or comment from sidshock.

Details about this transaction can be found on your iTrader page (http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/itrader.php?u=18711).

Note: This is an automated message.

Hi sidshock

I do not agree with the negative feedback. I still maintain i did not sell you a defective wii. The wii was working when i sold it, and to my knowledge did not have any artifacts.

I've made some good points on my perspective of the deal, and you made some good points regarding the transaction, but i feel you were also wrong in the sense that;

1. How do i know you didnt tamper with the wii?
2. Your text to me at 12:28am said 'now i am thinking of coming up there tomorrow' - maybe you didnt mean to, but that to me sounded like you were threatening me, my family, my property etc

I've had enough of this and thats why i've stopped responding to that thread.

I believe the correct rating should be neutral. If you disagree fine, but that doesn't warrant a negative feedback due to lack of proof on my part and yours.

My reply....

I said that after you agitated me really badly!!
and it wasn't to fight physically, I guess I was fed up and was ready to come up and demand a refund face to face because I felt your txt responses were getting ridiculous.
1: Saying artifacting on a wii is common ( not word for word but def. implied!)
2: telling me I wasn't diligent in researching the Wii enough ( how much research should I do? do I need schematics with me?? )
3: accusing me of tampering in your first/second TXT to me RIGHT AWAY!
( if I really did tamper it, would I be this GUNG-HO about this situation? Really??, also, I wouldn't I do this with someone local so I wouldn't have to drive as far?? someone maybe with less feedback too??, etc, etc... maybe go right to a STORE and buy one, swap it, and return it would be even easier) It would just not make COMMON SENSE for me to come out there and back multiple times, etc... compared to the easier alternatives I listed above!! Clearly, I did not have another defective Wii here to swap with.
From the condition yours was in, from what I read, it was artifacting for awhile since the GPU was damaged perm. from over-heating. So it could NOT have happened from the drive home. From the link I posted, proof from another person in the same situation, it is NOT really noticable on a SDTV.

This post sums it up BEST why I was not crazy thorough on this buy:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8648533&postcount=30

You mention you stopped replying to the thread b/c you felt "threatened" ??
Well, we had that TXT convo before the thread, and I explained EVEN in the TXT I wanted to come up and discuss a refund even with your parents if I had to b/c they would prob. be more reasonable about the situation... not to "threaten" you.

I decided to leave neg. feedback on the advice I received here:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8653237&postcount=53

it made sense.

I also went ahead with making this thread to see how the forum users here, that I have NEVER dealt with any that posted would respond to the situation, to see if I was just not thinking about this correctly. Apparently most of them feel the same as me, except for a couple, in which one even admits to knowing you on some level... And I still respect their opinion, but they were not the majority.

Bottom line, in your first/2nd txt to me you got VERY defensive and accused me of tampering asap! which, I think, I have shown from above examples, while possible, not very sound or smart, time, gas, other options, location and relevancy wise.

And also I did not realize your feedback was mostly as a buyer, or even think to check this as this suggests: http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8653237&postcount=53

whereas, my feedback is more than HALF as me being a SELLER ( and obviously an HONEST seller ) and large sales of electronics too!!
Laptop, video game systems, etc...

So this is the basis of my negative feedback.
Since I am a reasonable person, and don't JUMP to accusations and conclusions in my second sentence, I'll post this reply in the thread, and ask people if I should do NEG. or NEUTRAL feedback. And I'll leave it up to the majority just in case I am seeing this all wrong.

sidshock

Apr 27th, 2009, 07:07 PM

i agree, and I decided to drop it and let 'em have the money...
It would cost me more time and $$ for small claims than it's worth...
also, the seller said I should take him to court if I have a problem because he is not giving my $$ back. Seems he knows it would not make sense for me to take it to that level.
I'd have to travel to Hamilton everytime too, as it needs to be local to him.

Ok, after reading all 4 pages, these are my conclusions:

1. Buyer wants a refund.
2. Seller will not give a refund.
3. Both are adamant about what they believe.

Final conclusion: Nothing is going to happen on the internet, buyer should just get this into small claims and they will decide what's fair and what isn't.

thephenom

Apr 27th, 2009, 07:47 PM

at the risk of NOT making this a technical game and start pointing out the differences to you, here is a link that is in my FIRST POST here...
http://www.bestplasmascreensblog.com/530/artifacts-on-screen/
^^^^ read it, it is only 20 seconds of your life
EXACT same experience as me!

And yes, even with RCA cables on my LCD TV it is very noticable, not just component.
I found it funny he had components for 2 years for a wii that he never used?
if he did get them with the wii and was never gunna use them, wouldn't he dump/sell/give to a friend by now?
I dunno, it sounds to me like he did use it on HDTV and knew about the artifacting more and more each time.
I have a Wii with a WiiKey build into it. I hooked up my Wii at the neighbors plasma screen and all of the sudden I saw when the Wii is giving blank screens (while loading) there are red bar's vague on the screen. Also when there is content on the screen the images/ graphics have like jpeg compression artifacts around them (like when the compression is to high). On my crt tv I never saw it before, but what is the problem...? And how to fix it.
Exactly my point. Now let's say he's been using RCA + CRT/SDTV, how will he ever know Component + HDTV had that problem? Artifacts as I suggested could be related to the scalar on the TV and the fact it's not doing any 1:1 pixel mapping. My PS3 has optical out, I have optical cables laying around, but I don't use it on my PS3! Oh, and I also have games I don't play on my PS3, I don't sell of them or give them away either. Does that make me weird?

Now instead of arguing with people like me on RFD, why not go turn on your Wii now, turn off scaling on your HDTV and see if it helps. At least it'll narrow down your problem to whether your Wii is broken vs other technical issue.

Better yet, call up Nintendo to see if they'll warranty your unit and see if they'll fix it out of good will. But probably not since you do have a modded Wii.

sidshock

Apr 27th, 2009, 08:52 PM

Exactly my point. Now let's say he's been using RCA + CRT/SDTV, how will he ever know Component + HDTV had that problem? Artifacts as I suggested could be related to the scalar on the TV and the fact it's not doing any 1:1 pixel mapping. My PS3 has optical out, I have optical cables laying around, but I don't use it on my PS3! Oh, and I also have games I don't play on my PS3, I don't sell of them or give them away either. Does that make me weird?

Now instead of arguing with people like me on RFD, why not go turn on your Wii now, turn off scaling on your HDTV and see if it helps. At least it'll narrow down your problem to whether your Wii is broken vs other technical issue.

Better yet, call up Nintendo to see if they'll warranty your unit and see if they'll fix it out of good will. But probably not since you do have a modded Wii.

I'm not trying to argue, infact I have tried to stick to some decent facts and then some reasonable deductions where facts are unavailable.
Don't take it personally, I am not arguing with you, I am pointing out that maybe you did not read this whole posting, starting with the first one where I have links describing my exact problem, and another link to a user seeing the exact same experience as me from SDTV to HDTV.
It is not a scaler issue, as I've had a wii on this same tv before and the same game. Also, I know the difference between a scaler issue and artifacting. There's a big difference.
EXACT problem, listed here:
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums...ic_id=26505288
posted in first post of this thread.
Exact similar experience in the link I sent you in the last response I sent you.
I've pretty much made it clear why I think the seller was somewhat aware of this issue, there is no point in repeating, read the whole thread. Or read the last 1-2 pages at least. If you disagree with something I've said, sure, bring it up with a reference where I said it. Also, please check to see if I have not answered a rebutal to it later on by being sure you read this whole thread, as it seems you did not even read the first posting here according the the issue you addressed in your first response here.
And, I repeat, as you would see if you read this thread, I already agreed to accept the loss, as unlikely it may be that
I did tamper with it, I don't have proof that I didn't.

sidshock

Apr 27th, 2009, 10:18 PM

guys, seriously, just give me a NEG vote or NEUTRAL regarding the feedback I should leave to the seller here, and we'll tally up the total in a couple days, and I will respect the majorities decesion on this.
thanks all!

thephenom

Apr 27th, 2009, 11:56 PM

I'm not trying to argue, infact I have tried to stick to some decent facts and then some reasonable deductions where facts are unavailable.
Don't take it personally, I am not arguing with you, I am pointing out that maybe you did not read this whole posting, starting with the first one where I have links describing my exact problem, and another link to a user seeing the exact same experience as me from SDTV to HDTV.
It is not a scaler issue, as I've had a wii on this same tv before and the same game. Also, I know the difference between a scaler issue and artifacting. There's a big difference.
EXACT problem, listed here:
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums...ic_id=26505288
posted in first post of this thread.
Exact similar experience in the link I sent you in the last response I sent you.
I've pretty much made it clear why I think the seller was somewhat aware of this issue, there is no point in repeating, read the whole thread. Or read the last 1-2 pages at least. If you disagree with something I've said, sure, bring it up with a reference where I said it. Also, please check to see if I have not answered a rebutal to it later on by being sure you read this whole thread, as it seems you did not even read the first posting here according the the issue you addressed in your first response here.
And, I repeat, as you would see if you read this thread, I already agreed to accept the loss, as unlikely it may be that
I did tamper with it, I don't have proof that I didn't.
I did read the first 2 page of the thread until it just turned into too much finger pointing and accusations.

Sure, you have your doubts about the seller. But the seller can have doubts on you as well. E.g. this is your 2nd Wii, what happened to the first? Did you fail mod the first one? Did you fail a FW flash? etc, etc. Now these are purely speculations much like your speculation about the seller. No one can prove anything on either side.

The bottom line, I still hold the same opinion, the seller doesn't sound like a crook. He took the time to let you test it in his own home, where you found no issues! Whether it's on a SDTV or HDTV, as I said before, the Wii outputs at 480p, so why would it artifact on if you are running native resolution of both the SD and HDTV? If it artifacts on your HDTV at 480p, it would have artifacted on the seller's SDTV @ 480p. And the fact you said you might have missed the artifact because a 32" TV is too small? How is that even an excuse? I use a 30" on my desktop, I don't find it small at all.

sidshock

Apr 28th, 2009, 03:17 AM

I did read the first 2 page of the thread until it just turned into too much finger pointing and accusations.

Sure, you have your doubts about the seller. But the seller can have doubts on you as well. E.g. this is your 2nd Wii, what happened to the first? Did you fail mod the first one? Did you fail a FW flash? etc, etc. Now these are purely speculations much like your speculation about the seller. No one can prove anything on either side.

The bottom line, I still hold the same opinion, the seller doesn't sound like a crook. He took the time to let you test it in his own home, where you found no issues! Whether it's on a SDTV or HDTV, as I said before, the Wii outputs at 480p, so why would it artifact on if you are running native resolution of both the SD and HDTV? If it artifacts on your HDTV at 480p, it would have artifacted on the seller's SDTV @ 480p. And the fact you said you might have missed the artifact because a 32" TV is too small? How is that even an excuse? I use a 30" on my desktop, I don't find it small at all.

I think it was stated somewhere in the beginning, it was for a friend, that I bought it for. I sold my Wii ages ago... I told this to the seller before I bought it and when I was there picking it up.
and you and I are repeating ourselves...
did you not look at the link, here it is again...
http://www.bestplasmascreensblog.com...cts-on-screen/
Exact same experience as me, he had it on an SDTV CRT screen, took it to a 50" plasma and saw the same issue I had... click the link, 20 seconds to read it.
Also, did you not read the post where I agreed, I cannot prove I did not tamper with it so I am accepting the loss??
shall I repeat that again for the 10th or so time??
I laid out my reasons for my suspicions already, no need to do it again...
if you have something new to bring to the thread, please do, this is us ( you and I ) specifically repeating ourselves, even though I am agreeing with you I cannot prove the issue about the tampering, and am accepting that fact, and loss...
and me proving to you it is just different on LCD/PLASMA vs CRT even though it is in the same RES mode. ( read the link as proof, 20 seconds ) yet you keep disbelieving this fact even though I am suppling evidence. There is no spoon if you choose not to see it?? :)

thephenom

Apr 28th, 2009, 01:52 PM

I think it was stated somewhere in the beginning, it was for a friend, that I bought it for. I sold my Wii ages ago... I told this to the seller before I bought it and when I was there picking it up.
and you and I are repeating ourselves...
did you not look at the link, here it is again...
http://www.bestplasmascreensblog.com...cts-on-screen/
Exact same experience as me, he had it on an SDTV CRT screen, took it to a 50" plasma and saw the same issue I had... click the link, 20 seconds to read it.
Also, did you not read the post where I agreed, I cannot prove I did not tamper with it so I am accepting the loss??
shall I repeat that again for the 10th or so time??
I laid out my reasons for my suspicions already, no need to do it again...
if you have something new to bring to the thread, please do, this is us ( you and I ) specifically repeating ourselves, even though I am agreeing with you I cannot prove the issue about the tampering, and am accepting that fact, and loss...
and me proving to you it is just different on LCD/PLASMA vs CRT even though it is in the same RES mode. ( read the link as proof, 20 seconds ) yet you keep disbelieving this fact even though I am suppling evidence. There is no spoon if you choose not to see it?? :)
Yes, I know you have the same problem as all the links you provided. But no where on the link does it say, the problem isn't there if he used 1:1 aspect ratio on his HDTV. That was the only thing I was interested in seeing.

I'm not pointing fingers, I'm just interested to know why it artifacts on HDTV and not a SDTV.

jvaf

Apr 28th, 2009, 02:16 PM

sidshock

Apr 28th, 2009, 02:43 PM

Im with the seller on this one. No refund should be issued. The buyer had the oppurtunity to test out the product completely and not rushed in any way during the meet. No one is obligated to buy anything unless your happy with the product. IT is the clearly BUYER's fault.

I have said 100x now I am not after a refund, as I will not get it.
If you meant it as an opinion, no probs though.
I am simply asking if I should leave NEG. feedback or Neutral. And will respect the majorities decision.
I respect your opinion, but please add what kind of feedback you feel I should leave.

McLaren__F1

Apr 28th, 2009, 03:21 PM

I have said 100x now I am not after a refund, as I will not get it.
If you meant it as an opinion, no probs though.
I am simply asking if I should leave NEG. feedback or Neutral. And will respect the majorities decision.
I respect your opinion, but please add what kind of feedback you feel I should leave.

Looks like it doesnt matter anymore. you gave him Negative feedback.

nsr250

Apr 28th, 2009, 03:33 PM

Did u try it on another hdtv besides your own?

michbelly

Apr 28th, 2009, 07:29 PM

I'm with the buyer on this one because if I sold something defective, (and was unaware) I would refund

sidshock

Apr 28th, 2009, 09:47 PM

he believes I might have tampered with it, and there is no way I can prove I didn't other than my word. However, I was willing to get the triwing driver, go to his place, and open it to match up serials with the inside and outside and the box so I can prove I never opened it or tampered/swap things with it.

I'm with the buyer on this one because if I sold something defective, (and was unaware) I would refund

I can request to retract it by an admin, which I will if the vote sways that way.

Looks like it doesnt matter anymore. you gave him Negative feedback.

my friends Plasma. Exact same issue.
went to ANOTHER friends place, borrowed his Wii, tried, it... works just fine, with the same cable hookups. It's def. the wii artifacting.

Did u try it on another hdtv besides your own?

In all honesty, I think it is the way the pixels are mapped out physically. It's like how poor SDTV looks on a LCD (not so much on plasma but still quite poor) as compared to CRT. Mind you, there are some games where it is hardly noticable. The game he put on was called gun ghost or something or other, and it was the only one we tried there. Maybe it was one of those that doesn't really show artifacting to begin with. As I happen to try Smash Bros. it happens to be the one that shows it most prodominantly on the title screen right away. So it is not everywhere, all the time in your face, but pixels flash here and there.
I put it at 4:3 CRT style mode on my sony LCD, and it was still there. I popped in a Wii a borrowed from my friend and fired her up, with the same connections, no issues.
ah well, nothing I can do about it now anyways.

Yes, I know you have the same problem as all the links you provided. But no where on the link does it say, the problem isn't there if he used 1:1 aspect ratio on his HDTV. That was the only thing I was interested in seeing.

I'm not pointing fingers, I'm just interested to know why it artifacts on HDTV and not a SDTV.

Mark099

Apr 29th, 2009, 01:51 PM

Whether he knew it or not, he sold you a defective product. Plus he's done NOTHING to even apologize for it other than to say "it's YOUR FAULT".

Keep the negative.

fratello25

Apr 29th, 2009, 03:05 PM

For what it's worth, I'm on the buyer's side. All evidence points to the conclusion that the item was defective when purchased. The fact that the buyer didn't press all the right buttons, or play it on every tv imaginable, to spot the defect is irrelevant. At the same time, when buying used, the buyer has to assume some risks. There's a reason it's cheaper than retail.

My solution would be to offer a partial refund, or split the cost of repairs.

However, seller is obviously not interested in working with the buyer to work something out, so that automatically puts him in that "do not deal with" category.

At the end of the day OP, lesson learned, and thanks for informing the RFD community about the bad apples around here. And definitely keep the negative rating.

XxXSnake23XxX

Apr 29th, 2009, 10:23 PM

sidshock

Apr 30th, 2009, 05:13 AM

agreed, simply becasue you ahd a chance to test out the product then the buyer should of tested out every possible senerio.

I just want to say that, I realize it was NOT a store I was going to.

However, if I were to goto a store, a pawn shop ( sale of used goods ), a Flea Market, etc... They would be somewhat understanding and behind the product sold in this situation then the kind of attitude I received from the seller, who accused me of tampering with it almost instantly! ( 2nd txt to me )
I understand this person is not a store, but buying an already defective product is tough to swallow for anyone. Infact don't we build up positive feedback as sellers because we back the products we sell to a reasonable point? To the point we insinuate the condition of the item? How this Wii was insinuated to be in good working order with no issues.
Every possible scenario is impossible with anything or anyone. Maybe if I was buying a PEZ dispenser?
Bottom line is, I walked in, I was presented in front of the Wii already connected and ready to go with all the hookups onto an SDTV, something that hides artifacting on the Wii very well if you read about it. So the testing was limited to that extent. I did not know if the seller had an HDTV or not, as he stated later he did, and I should have asked to see it on that. I didn't ask anything about HD as it looked just fine to me on SDTV as I was unaware of artifacting on a Wii as it is uncommon and I never even heard about it until now.

Atomic Rooster

May 2nd, 2009, 06:18 PM

I didn't ask anything about HD as it looked just fine to me on SDTV as I was unaware of artifacting on a Wii as it is uncommon and I never even heard about it until now.
Google - Wii artifacts on screen (http://www.google.com/search?q=wii+artifacts+on+screen&hl)

Wii having problems with 480p output? (http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/18/wii-having-problems-with-480p-output/)

Google - Wii artifacts (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=wii+artifacts+&btnG=Search)

This has been a known issue for a few years now.

sidshock

May 4th, 2009, 12:58 PM

well, I apologize if it's common, in me saying it wasn't.
It just doesn't feel anything like the RROD of the 360 issues...
The artifiacting is visible with RCA 480i as it is with 480p on my LCD tv.

Google - Wii artifacts on screen (http://www.google.com/search?q=wii+artifacts+on+screen&hl)

Wii having problems with 480p output? (http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/18/wii-having-problems-with-480p-output/)

Google - Wii artifacts (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=wii+artifacts+&btnG=Search)

This has been a known issue for a few years now.

4flava

May 4th, 2009, 01:12 PM

Unfortunately to the Op I cannot find any fault whatsoever on the sellers end.

I certainly would not issue the op a refund if I was in this situation.. the seller did his job and provided you with an opportunity to test the product before you handed the money to him.

The seller is not responsible for anything once the transaction is complete.

exiledinottawa

May 4th, 2009, 04:21 PM

I'm just gunna do something negative, that I don't want to...
Rent a unit from BBV and swap the inside. At least that way no one else gets this one passed along... just a renter that goes back to BBV anyways.

Wow, You are whining about being scammed and now are going to commit a criminal offense.

This post right here tells me all I need to know about the OP

exiledinottawa

May 4th, 2009, 04:34 PM

i already know morality and doing the right thing is out with him.. that is why I said he won. I will deal with it, etc...
and you seem to be in favour of protecting only yourself and not both parties for a smooth transaction. So you would obviously do the same as the seller here.

the bottom line is, I can't prove I didn't tamper with it as it DID leave his house and out of his eyes. What bothered me is how quickly he accused me of not doing my due diligence and how I didn't ask the right questions, and that led me to further think how it was conveniently setup on an SDTV only, and all the rest of the bs and legal terms, like take him to court, etc.. he has flung at me in these posts.
I let it sit for a good while to see if it will artifact when it was cool, and it did, right away, so I am assuming this problem has been with the wii for awhile as it has damaged the chip due to long term overheating from what I have read.
I even found a post, that is up on page 1 at the begining of my posts how another guy had the exact same experience about playing on an SDTV and then trying it on a 50" plasma and noticing the problem.. I was like, F... that is exactly what happened to me. So the only issue here is did I tamper with it? like I said, I can't prove I didn't other than my word. So yeah, he wins in that respect. Like I said, I am just unhappy with the attitude about due diligence, right questions, so early on. His first txt to me was he never new that there was a problem with it.
his SECOND txt was telling me how did he not know if I opened it and swapped stuff out, and tampered with it???
and right after, his third was how I didn't do my due diligence. He got defensive about it ASAP. That, for one, PISSED me off!! and made him more guilty than not in my eyes from experience and what I've seen in general in similar situations.

Ya, please do not use the words morality or "the right thing" anymore kid. As soon as you said you were going to scam BBV by replacing the insides of the Wii you lost any chance of me feeling sorry for you (and I was on your side up until then)

Facts are
- you chose to buy a used Wii
- you were given a chance to test it
- after testing it you accepted the deal and paid for it

How would you feel if you were the seller and the buyer came over to your HOUSE and tested it and accepted it and then got home and said it was defective? Would you consider maybe the buyer dropped it or messed with it?

Of course you would, especially after seeing the buyer post in a open forum that he/she intends on scamming blockbuster by switching insides. Plus scammers don't invite you to their houses

Sorry dude, I'm generally 99% for the buyers in these cases but not this time.

I'd mark this down as a lesson learned and move on

sidshock

May 5th, 2009, 03:37 AM

I would tend to agree with you, but in this case, it felt fishy after the fact due to the reasons stated in this thread.
it happens.. I agreed, however, that I cannot proove I did not tamper with it other than my word... so I accepted the loss.
However I do disagree with zero responsibilty after the fact, esp. if it is only 2hrs after the fact. As I, as a seller, would take some responsibility, depending on the situation, when, and issues involved. Not everything is cut and dry, black and white.

Unfortunately to the Op I cannot find any fault whatsoever on the sellers end.

I certainly would not issue the op a refund if I was in this situation.. the seller did his job and provided you with an opportunity to test the product before you handed the money to him.

The seller is not responsible for anything once the transaction is complete.

I was honest at the thought of this crossing my mind, and I did consider this option as a lot of other people honest or not would have this cross their minds. If I was REALLY dishonest, and had a broken Wii I was trying to replace, I would have just gone with this option off the bat without travelling all the way to hamilton and back.
I'm sure you've "whined" as you put it about much more insignificant circumstances than this... "kid".
I notice you have zero feedback here. that doesn't mean you have little selling or buying experience, but as a seller, in which I have been, of expensive electronics at times too, I personally, would be more sensitive to the buyer, and would prob. not accuse the buyer of breaking it 2hrs later. Esp. if it was a viable mistake, or damage that was overlooked. Esp. if it sounded reasonable, and the buyer had excellent feedback as a seller and buyer and long time member as proof.
So, while I may consider the buyer at fault, I would not be slandering the thought at him RIGHT away, and would weigh the evidence of that before hand, and if it would make sense for the buyer to have done such under the circumstances, time, and reputation he/she has.

Wow, You are whining about being scammed and now are going to commit a criminal offense.

This post right here tells me all I need to know about the OP

Ya, please do not use the words morality or "the right thing" anymore kid. As soon as you said you were going to scam BBV by replacing the insides of the Wii you lost any chance of me feeling sorry for you (and I was on your side up until then)

Facts are
- you chose to buy a used Wii
- you were given a chance to test it
- after testing it you accepted the deal and paid for it

How would you feel if you were the seller and the buyer came over to your HOUSE and tested it and accepted it and then got home and said it was defective? Would you consider maybe the buyer dropped it or messed with it?

Of course you would, especially after seeing the buyer post in a open forum that he/she intends on scamming blockbuster by switching insides. Plus scammers don't invite you to their houses

Sorry dude, I'm generally 99% for the buyers in these cases but not this time.

I'd mark this down as a lesson learned and move on

Happy13178

May 5th, 2009, 06:52 AM

Ya, please do not use the words morality or "the right thing" anymore kid. As soon as you said you were going to scam BBV by replacing the insides of the Wii you lost any chance of me feeling sorry for you (and I was on your side up until then)

Facts are
- you chose to buy a used Wii
- you were given a chance to test it
- after testing it you accepted the deal and paid for it

How would you feel if you were the seller and the buyer came over to your HOUSE and tested it and accepted it and then got home and said it was defective? Would you consider maybe the buyer dropped it or messed with it?

Of course you would, especially after seeing the buyer post in a open forum that he/she intends on scamming blockbuster by switching insides. Plus scammers don't invite you to their houses

Sorry dude, I'm generally 99% for the buyers in these cases but not this time.

I'd mark this down as a lesson learned and move on

I'm going to have to agree. Its entirely possible that the seller never had the wii hooked up to an HDTV, even if he had one in the house. Its not an HD console, and if it was one that kids played, it could have easily been put onto an older TV for them. The seller wouldn't have necessarily ever seen any artifacts while viewing on an SDTV, and from what I can tell, absolved himself of responsibility when he let the buyer test it out before purchase. For all he knows, the buyer swapped the insides with another broken unit and then complained about the problems. I wouldn't have thought that would be the case, but he's already brought up doing it to a retailer, so its not out of the realm of possibility (Sorry, not accusing buyer of it, just saying its not impossible). This would be an entirely different story if he hadn't allowed the unit to be tested, but he did, and that seems to be his saving grace here.

sidshock

May 5th, 2009, 04:44 PM

I agree with that.. and that is why I didn't bother asking for a refund after our initial TXT'ing back and forth.
However, he brought up the fact ( seller) that I had swapped and "tampered" with it in his second TXT to me rather than trying to figure out if this was something that just occured in the past 2hrs since I took possession.
Also, I had chipped about 2-3 wii's in my life. I did 2 for friends, and 1 for me, if I recall correctly when they first came out, since then,, LONG sold mine, and didn't even have the tool to open it anylonger, as I had to pick one up recently, to see if I can fix this one. Also, if I were swapping the insides, why didn't I just do that locally, or with a store, etc.. to begin with rather than driving out to Hamilton? and then having to drive back return it. Gas, time, energy, vs someone local or a local store, it just doesn't add up to me. I was just trying to buy a Wii for a friend ( and co-worker) for him and his kid at a decent price with some accessories... If you read the entire thread, I covered all these points btw...
However, again, I do emphasize, while improbable and not "sense" worthy for me to swap the insides with this long distance sellers wii, it is not impossible, so I gave up along time ago asking the buyer for any reparations, since he accused me of this in his 2nd txt to me.

I'm going to have to agree. Its entirely possible that the seller never had the wii hooked up to an HDTV, even if he had one in the house. Its not an HD console, and if it was one that kids played, it could have easily been put onto an older TV for them. The seller wouldn't have necessarily ever seen any artifacts while viewing on an SDTV, and from what I can tell, absolved himself of responsibility when he let the buyer test it out before purchase. For all he knows, the buyer swapped the insides with another broken unit and then complained about the problems. I wouldn't have thought that would be the case, but he's already brought up doing it to a retailer, so its not out of the realm of possibility (Sorry, not accusing buyer of it, just saying its not impossible). This would be an entirely different story if he hadn't allowed the unit to be tested, but he did, and that seems to be his saving grace here.

turtlenuts

May 6th, 2009, 01:48 AM

This is now just finger pointing back and forth. Both parties made mistakes. We can all just learn from this and move on. ;)

sidshock

May 6th, 2009, 10:37 AM

This is now just finger pointing back and forth. Both parties made mistakes. We can all just learn from this and move on. ;)

Ya, I'm cool with letting this thread die now...
It's long done with.

Donomight25

May 10th, 2009, 01:46 AM

well, he tells me I should have "ASKED" him about artifacts if you read above post #13, and how it's my fault for not researching enough into it. So he clearly knew, and just didn't tell me, so my $$ is gone b/c someone wanted his $$ back on his defective wii. oh well...
Oh, and he told me I should take him to small claims court.

The seller could tell you it's a gold plated Wii, diamond controller with emerald buttons with ruby batteries.

It's just up to you to decide what gold looks like, what color a diamond is and what batteries even are.

You booted it up enough just to see a game run and that's it? That was your first mistake. Your second mistake is buying it from Hamilton...

sidshock

May 11th, 2009, 01:40 PM

The seller could tell you it's a gold plated Wii, diamond controller with emerald buttons with ruby batteries.

It's just up to you to decide what gold looks like, what color a diamond is and what batteries even are.

You booted it up enough just to see a game run and that's it? That was your first mistake. Your second mistake is buying it from Hamilton...

:)

and I lived there for 2 years, I should have known!
Yeah, I know... I shoulda tried a couple games, let it run for 10min, test all buttons... I got fooled by focusing on
his pos. feedback, not realizing it was mostly buyer feedback.
But anyways...
Has a Wii..
Has Comp. cables.
claims to NEVER have had it on an HDTV ...
has 50.. yes FIFTY ++ games... some DO show the artifacting on SDTV... some don't.
While MOST do on hdtv. Even if he never had it on HDTV ( ya right, some 23 or so yr old with buddies over
and has at least 2 controllers were all playing it on a small SDTV) he would've noticed it at LEAST on one game
here and there. And just to give a setting feel. It's a nice freshly built house on the mountain, not some BSMT apartment
with a big mess, low $$, living off of last weeks sandwich. So that's why I was more trusting as well.
It's done with.. whatever...

malacus

May 11th, 2009, 05:47 PM

Read the first 4 pages.. :P

As the seller, tough position to be in. If he contacted you on the day of the purchase (2hours + time to set it up on his TV) I'd feel pretty certain he didn't tamper with it, and I'd refund the value. If he contacted me much later, I'd be suspicious as it worked fine on my tv.

If he brought it back, and it worked same as it did when he left with it on my tv, then it *likely* was a problem originally and I'd *likely* refund. If it did something different (looked worse) etc on my tv, I'd say hell no and give him the boot.

An alternative would be to sell the wii with the problem obviously stated - there are ppl who don't have fancy LCDs - split the cash from it, and from the original sale. You both would end up with something.

I would rather go this route then give a discount refund on the wii - as the seller could turn and sell it again without mentioning the problem, and continue doing so to make money - using craigslist or such. I doubt this seller is the type - as sold on RFD, etc, where we can at least rate buyer/seller.

If the seller never noticed the issue - and it still does not create the issue on the screen he uses etc - he essentially is being given back the exact same product in his eyes for his uses since he never uses it on his parents fancy LCD. So it shouldn't be an issue to refund it.

Let me give you an example, my LCD tv has a nifty PC IN feature, so I can hook up my PC to my LCD - which is cool. I never used this feature and if I sold the TV and the buyer came back and told me it didn't work with his PC - I'd refund it in full.

This is how I see this transaction. I side with the Buyer.

EDIT: Please edit first post to signal you want this thread to end.

sidshock

May 11th, 2009, 07:54 PM

that's exactly where I was at. But when he accused me of tampering with it, and "switching" the inside. ( his words in the 2nd TXT when I told him there was an issue ) that made me kinda realize he knew what was up exactly. And then all my little gears in my brain started turning, and then I pieced little things together. He wanted to meet at a timmy's first, then changed his mind and allowed me to come to his house. Prob. when he setup the SDTV with it, and realized he can demo it with a certain game, and it won't be noticed. Which is what happened. I should've brought a game to test myself! Lesson learned.
But I told em I would ask for a retraction of the NEG feedback depending on who sides with who here, and it seems the majority of the RFD'ers that replied to this thread, believe the seller is obsolved, and it's my fault I didn't catch onto this issue to begin with. Or, I did actually tamper with it.
So PM'd Ryan ( admin ) to retract my neg feedback to him.

Read the first 4 pages.. :P

As the seller, tough position to be in. If he contacted you on the day of the purchase (2hours + time to set it up on his TV) I'd feel pretty certain he didn't tamper with it, and I'd refund the value. If he contacted me much later, I'd be suspicious as it worked fine on my tv.

If he brought it back, and it worked same as it did when he left with it on my tv, then it *likely* was a problem originally and I'd *likely* refund. If it did something different (looked worse) etc on my tv, I'd say hell no and give him the boot.

An alternative would be to sell the wii with the problem obviously stated - there are ppl who don't have fancy LCDs - split the cash from it, and from the original sale. You both would end up with something.

I would rather go this route then give a discount refund on the wii - as the seller could turn and sell it again without mentioning the problem, and continue doing so to make money - using craigslist or such. I doubt this seller is the type - as sold on RFD, etc, where we can at least rate buyer/seller.

If the seller never noticed the issue - and it still does not create the issue on the screen he uses etc - he essentially is being given back the exact same product in his eyes for his uses since he never uses it on his parents fancy LCD. So it shouldn't be an issue to refund it.

Let me give you an example, my LCD tv has a nifty PC IN feature, so I can hook up my PC to my LCD - which is cool. I never used this feature and if I sold the TV and the buyer came back and told me it didn't work with his PC - I'd refund it in full.

This is how I see this transaction. I side with the Buyer.

EDIT: Please edit first post to signal you want this thread to end.

malacus

May 12th, 2009, 12:41 PM

I personally would at least leave a neutral opinion with a reference to this and let people make their own choice. I am glad you shared your experience, it has made me all the wiser as a buyer and as a seller.

Mark099

May 12th, 2009, 08:51 PM

Donomight25

May 14th, 2009, 10:40 AM

:)

and I lived there for 2 years, I should have known!
Yeah, I know... I shoulda tried a couple games, let it run for 10min, test all buttons... I got fooled by focusing on
his pos. feedback, not realizing it was mostly buyer feedback.
But anyways...
Has a Wii..
Has Comp. cables.
claims to NEVER have had it on an HDTV ...
has 50.. yes FIFTY ++ games... some DO show the artifacting on SDTV... some don't.
While MOST do on hdtv. Even if he never had it on HDTV ( ya right, some 23 or so yr old with buddies over
and has at least 2 controllers were all playing it on a small SDTV) he would've noticed it at LEAST on one game
here and there. And just to give a setting feel. It's a nice freshly built house on the mountain, not some BSMT apartment
with a big mess, low $$, living off of last weeks sandwich. So that's why I was more trusting as well.
It's done with.. whatever...

You missed my point. Who cares where he lives, what conditions and how many games he had. Who cares how much $$ the OP makes...or his parents.

You walked in, turned it on, walked out.

You're a fool for not only NOT testing it properly, but leaving feedback about your stupid mistakes.

Gtfo and go play some Wii.

EdLeafs

May 14th, 2009, 03:05 PM

HAHAHA, this thread is so funny to read. I had a great time reading it. From my view, I think the buyer had all the chances and opportunity to test out and make sure everything was working fine before paying the selling money. Having the chance to go to someone else's house and test it is already shows honesty. It's rare to find such a person that will let a stranger walk into their home and test out a system. You go to the flea market or some other used store and don't even have the chance to test out the system. It's based on the honest system. Anyways, when you walk out of their house, that's the point of no RETURN. You buy it, you own it! End of story.

sidshock

May 14th, 2009, 08:03 PM

I do not agree with it at all, but it's what I said I would do, and I stick by my word.
and yes, I get you 100%, if it was one of these guys ragging how I had all the "opportunity" to test, etc... if it was them in my situation, they would be crying hell 10x worse than me at this point. But I am a long time seller, more than a buyer, so I can take a hit, and learn a lesson.

IMHO, I think you were wrong to take the advice of the people. Despite, what many people have written, if the shoe was on their foot they would all be b*tching much more than you.

The reality is that you were sold a defective product, then treated badly for bringing the defect to the seller's attention. The buyer deserves a negative just for the childish way he's handled this whole situation. Neutral feedback should only be reserved for transactions where there is a certain amount of satifaction by both parties. For example, the seller was 4 days late shipping an item, but the item arrived exactly as described and in good working order. I cannot see how you could be happy with any part of this deal.

I hate to be this direct on such a post, but you sir, are an idiot then. I am HOPING you are around 16-20yrs old and there's still hope for you to learn. Or heck, maybe you're just plain ignorant and only freak out when something costs you, otherwise, "F" everyone else and the conditions?
It's called deducing.
where he lives: I prob. would not go to Jane and Finch willingly.
I prob. would not go all the way to Hamilton unless it was a decent deal, worth my time.
I don't care how much money the op makes or his parents, all I said was it seemed like a decent newer house, more welcoming, rather than a shack with 4-6 weed smoking buddies selling whatever for some coin...
you're right, I am a complete and utter fool and it is 100% my fault for posting my experience. From now on I will treat all purchaes as defective until 100% not to be under every situation :rolleyes:

You missed my point. Who cares where he lives, what conditions and how many games he had. Who cares how much $$ the OP makes...or his parents.

You walked in, turned it on, walked out.

You're a fool for not only NOT testing it properly, but leaving feedback about your stupid mistakes.

Gtfo and go play some Wii.

I think some people can agree, I would have gotten way more co-operation from a flea market in this situation than this seller by far.
letting someone come over: Not rare at all if you look under my feedback and how long I've been a member and around for. This has been brought up berfore under a few threads, and I am sure other sellers can back this up.

HAHAHA, this thread is so funny to read. I had a great time reading it. From my view, I think the buyer had all the chances and opportunity to test out and make sure everything was working fine before paying the selling money. Having the chance to go to someone else's house and test it is already shows honesty. It's rare to find such a person that will let a stranger walk into their home and test out a system. You go to the flea market or some other used store and don't even have the chance to test out the system. It's based on the honest system. Anyways, when you walk out of their house, that's the point of no RETURN. You buy it, you own it! End of story.

Valdes

May 17th, 2009, 05:26 AM

I hate to be this direct on such a post, but you sir, are an idiot then. I am HOPING you are around 16-20yrs old and there's still hope for you to learn. Or heck, maybe you're just plain ignorant and only freak out when something costs you, otherwise, "F" everyone else and the conditions?
It's called deducing.
where he lives: I prob. would not go to Jane and Finch willingly.
I prob. would not go all the way to Hamilton unless it was a decent deal, worth my time.
I don't care how much money the op makes or his parents, all I said was it seemed like a decent newer house, more welcoming, rather than a shack with 4-6 weed smoking buddies selling whatever for some coin...
you're right, I am a complete and utter fool and it is 100% my fault for posting my experience. From now on I will treat all purchaes as defective until 100% not to be under every situation :rolleyes:

Did you quote the correct post? Mark has been supporting you all throughout this thread with some considerably insightful points. Hardly an idiot.

Re-read this:
The reality is that you were sold a defective product, then treated badly for bringing the defect to the seller's attention. The buyer deserves a negative just for the childish way he's handled this whole situation. Neutral feedback should only be reserved for transactions where there is a certain amount of satifaction by both parties. For example, the seller was 4 days late shipping an item, but the item arrived exactly as described and in good working order. I cannot see how you could be happy with any part of this deal.
In the same situation, I would definitely leave some form of feedback, be it neutral or negative. If you were not satisfied with the deal, you should let other potential buyers know. Link it to this thread so that they may draw their own conclusions. (seeing as the seller has questionably removed his)

sidshock

May 21st, 2009, 01:55 AM

nono.. hehe.. I leave my responses to quotes ABOVE the original txt.

if you look back, you will see I have a response for Mark first, then the "idiot" post for Donomight25.
Mark has had some excellent points. Him and I seem to be very much on the same page.
And I also respect the others' opinions here that differ from mine...
but Donomight25's response was just stupid ( to me anyways ) so I was a bit harsh.

Did you quote the correct post? Mark has been supporting you all throughout this thread with some considerably insightful points. Hardly an idiot.

Re-read this:

In the same situation, I would definitely leave some form of feedback, be it neutral or negative. If you were not satisfied with the deal, you should let other potential buyers know. Link it to this thread so that they may draw their own conclusions. (seeing as the seller has questionably removed his)

ryokinshin

May 28th, 2009, 08:19 AM

cheap_guy

May 30th, 2009, 09:51 PM

Um... I only skimmed the previous posts since I'm not too interested in reading the insults going back and forth.

The only thing I want to make sure of is that the video cabling you're using is adequate and you have tried another cable. I often get artifacting with crappy cables on my digital cable box (usually with s-video outputting 480i/p). Just saying that the problem might not be the box since the SD video looks fine. Maybe you need cables with better shielding?

Rubedizzle

Jun 17th, 2009, 06:23 PM

Wow, talk about a hell of a ride.

Thank you for informing us about your situation, and hopefully this will be a lesson to the community to do your research before making purchases that cannot be returned/refunded. Simply put.

All the best to the buyer and seller.

Vickel

Jun 26th, 2009, 05:02 PM

I think this is why i dont buy and used electronics online as it just impossible to test everything out before buying.

Electronics are worst as they can be working perfectly one day and not the next.

Anyways i hope it works out for both parties

DJXP

Jun 26th, 2009, 05:46 PM

The first gen wii's do have artifact issues, and it was from overheating due to wiiconnect24.
IMO the seller knew of the issue based on what I've read and what I know about the subject.

My suggestion to the buyer is to try calling nintendo and see what they will do. Even though its out of warranty many of my customers have successfully got it repaired free of cost (Usually if I notice it on my screen before modding I'll inform the customer to contact nintendo first to repair the unit then mod the unit they get back from nintendo). If they do tell you to send it in you may want to consider getting a stock legacy drive (PM me if you go this route).

Another thread where someone goes into some details from a guy in the UK:

http://www.monroeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13099

Good luck !

sidshock

Jul 12th, 2009, 04:18 AM

Lets insult members in the community that wants to help you?

I was pissed. I apologize.

Um... I only skimmed the previous posts since I'm not too interested in reading the insults going back and forth.

The only thing I want to make sure of is that the video cabling you're using is adequate and you have tried another cable. I often get artifacting with crappy cables on my digital cable box (usually with s-video outputting 480i/p). Just saying that the problem might not be the box since the SD video looks fine. Maybe you need cables with better shielding?

yup, I did. I tried RCA cables, and Hidef cables.
same result. Tried on friends TV too. It is def. artifacting.

Wow, talk about a hell of a ride.

Thank you for informing us about your situation, and hopefully this will be a lesson to the community to do your research before making purchases that cannot be returned/refunded. Simply put.

All the best to the buyer and seller.

No prob. I wouldn't have even posted if the seller didn't make me feel suspicious about the situation right after the sale.

I think this is why i dont buy and used electronics online as it just impossible to test everything out before buying.

Electronics are worst as they can be working perfectly one day and not the next.

Anyways i hope it works out for both parties

I agree. It is a hit or miss. What can I say, miss this time. :)

The first gen wii's do have artifact issues, and it was from overheating due to wiiconnect24.
IMO the seller knew of the issue based on what I've read and what I know about the subject.

My suggestion to the buyer is to try calling nintendo and see what they will do. Even though its out of warranty many of my customers have successfully got it repaired free of cost (Usually if I notice it on my screen before modding I'll inform the customer to contact nintendo first to repair the unit then mod the unit they get back from nintendo). If they do tell you to send it in you may want to consider getting a stock legacy drive (PM me if you go this route).

Another thread where someone goes into some details from a guy in the UK:

http://www.monroeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13099

Good luck !

Thanks DJ.
yeah, I highly suspected he knew what he gave me, but watcha gunna do...
And thanks for the advice/offer.