Group Buy: Energy Audit & Tankless water heater

[roger12]

UPDATE July 3 I am trying to setup a new Group Buy for OTA HDTV installation. Any contractors interested in participating?
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/s...d.php?t=759252

UPDATE JUNE 14 Group buy for ENERGY AUDIT. Some details in post # 278.
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8906253&postcount=278

UPDATE JUNE 25 Second group buy for tankless is on until July 8 (see post #295). Cost is 2269+gst for basic install. POST CONFIRMED AND PAY DEPOSIT to be included. READ THROUGH MY POSTS, DONT ASK QUESTIONS WHICH HAVE ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED.
1) PMit CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
2) 3ajs CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
3) rdx CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
3) segal CONFIRMED
4) serenity111

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group Buy I for hot water tank (see posts #50 #79 #92 for major details, my other posts contain contractor's response to user questions).
1) roger12 - CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
2) yjzeng - CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
3) navaz - CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
4) agiga - Ottawa - CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
5) skanji - Ottawa CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
6) tor98 - CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
7) old_type - CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
8) Dealfinder2007 - CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
9) vr6man25 - CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
10) pmarcovi - CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
11) rajchakra - CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
12) Deal_seeker1 CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
13) Kohnan Ottawa CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
14) Moveez CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
15) breakfasteatre CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
16) styx555 Ottawa CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
17) valegal CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
18) symbian CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
19) Nubnub CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
20) Caprio CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
21) Winks1 CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
22) Steinberg CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID
23) Zozon CONFIRMED - DEPOSIT PAID

[Genblue]

I'm interested in either the Rinnai R75LSi or the R95LSi depending on the pricing.
I'm in Burlington.

Thanks for putting the list together Roger12.

Hopefully the group buy can get the price down to the $2,000-2,200 price range (installed).

[vvii]

Interest depending on the price, can we have the price list?

[mcplar]

man that sucks... I'm out west on van island!

[roger12]

I'm interested in either the Rinnai R75LSi or the R95LSi depending on the pricing.
I'm in Burlington.

Thanks for putting the list together Roger12.

Hopefully the group buy can get the price down to the $2,000-2,200 price range (installed).

List updated.

[Ride-On]

Potential interest in Ottawa. Possibly furnace too.

[NCHC James]

Interest depending on the price, can we have the price list?

the only reason i havent suggested a price at the moment is to see how many are interested, meaning if i can get a large number i can expand the discount.

[dealfinder2007]

I'm interested, please add me to the list. Thanks Rogers12

[nelsonmp5]

I'm interested too. I'd like to see the numbers and what programs there are to reduce the cost. [I'm in Oakville]
Thanks OP.

[adepaolis]

Im interested (Richmond Hill), please let me know if anything comes of this.

[Munchos]

I'm curious about the cost of the Rinnai. Installed one for a customer 3 weeks ago and like it. Debating on this or a Noritz. If you can let me know the price with all taxes, duty, etc... I am 50/50 on them.

[becmonchu]

Add me to the list im in oakville. Would be interested based on pricing

[symbian]

I am interested to buy the unit from US if the quote from contractors is not attractive.
Currently, ebay is selling US$7xx, but I am not sure about the duty charge. I also get quote for installation-only about $700+ depend on what parts the installation requires.
So, I would say C$2000 all included should be a reasonable price for the group buy.

[roger12]

I'm interested too. I'd like to see the numbers and what programs there are to reduce the cost. [I'm in Oakville]
Thanks OP.

Please read this thread to answer all your questions

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/s...d.php?t=714455

[roger12]

I am interested to buy the unit from US if the quote from contractors is not attractive.
Currently, ebay is selling US$7xx, but I am not sure about the duty charge. I also get quote for installation-only about $700+ depend on what parts the installation requires.
So, I would say C$2000 all included should be a reasonable price for the group buy.

Here is a nice blog for Canadian DIY
http://birarai.blogspot.com/2009/04/tankless-water-heater-installation-and.html

[DrXenon]

So I could do all the water plumbing and exhaust vent stuff myself, and call a gas fitter to do the gas connection?

If so, any possibility of buying a model that's suitable for a house with 3 bathrooms?

[agiga]

This thread is continuation of http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=714455

Following members had expressed interested in a group buy for hot water tank in hot deals section

1) roger12
2) crasher
3) symbian
4) steinberg
5) rajchakra
6) moonstruck
7) kasm
8) agiga - Ottawa 5 units
9) yjzeng
10) Genblue
11) Rideon - Ottawa
12) Dealfinder2007
13) Becmonchu
14) Adepaolis
15) nelsonmp5

There were 4 more members from GTA and 2 from Ottawa who were interested but I don't have their names.

It is understandable that installation cost may vary somewhat from house to house. For example, my home has a power vent installed so less cost of plumbing etc but my parents' home has a regular tank. So the contractor will need to drill and do extra plumbing.

Please indicate if you will be interested in buying the unit from US if the quotes from contractors are not competitive. A friend bought Rinnai R75 LSe NG (7.5 GPM) from Buffalo for USD1000 plus tax and a local licensed installer helped her install.

Canadian DIY Blog: http://birarai.blogspot.com/2009/04/...ation-and.html

GTA Contractors who have expressed interest so far:
1) James - NCHC
2) Mark - G Force Air Inc

Thanks so much for doing this roger12!! I am def interested in getting this from the US for the considerable savings!

[NCHC James]

Thanks so much for doing this roger12!! I am def interested in getting this from the US for the considerable savings!

keep in mind the US model does not come with the ULC or CSA approval, and can not be installed in canada legally.

[roger12]

keep in mind the US model does not come with the ULC or CSA approval, and can not be installed in canada legally.

James, as indicated in the blog, the units from states are CSA approved and qualify for all the rebates. My colleague also bought from Buffalo and qualified for rebates.

http://birarai.blogspot.com/2009/04/...ation-and.html

[Anonymouse]

I'd also like to know if I can do the water plumbing and vent myself. Can anyone confirm this?

[yjzeng]

Hi,

I wonder if the R75LSe is qulified for the Enbridge rebate. From the list of enbridge's site, it only shows three models from Rinnai what they are end with LSi not LSe: R75LSi R94LSi R98LSi. Link (https://portal-plumprod.cgc.enbridge.com/portal/server.pt?space=CommunityPage&control=SetCommunity&cached=true&CommunityID=875&PageID=0)

[DrXenon]

keep in mind the US model does not come with the ULC or CSA approval, and can not be installed in canada legally.

I just looked at the manual on the Rinnai site, and there's a "CSA Design Certified" logo on the front page.

[DrXenon]

Hi,

I wonder if the R75LSe is qulified for the Enbridge rebate. From the list of enbridge's site, it only shows three models from Rinnai what they are end with LSi not LSe: R75LSi R94LSi R98LSi. Link (https://portal-plumprod.cgc.enbridge.com/portal/server.pt?space=CommunityPage&control=SetCommunity&cached=true&CommunityID=875&PageID=0)

Why do you want an exterior model? An interior one will last longer because it's protected from the elements, and it's not like they take up a lot of space in your house.

[roger12]

I think as per RFD rules contractors are not allowed to post the price in the forum, so one of the contractors PMed this information to me:

"If the interest is there, I can do these units installed for $2099+gst if over 10 people are in. This will include basic install. It will be $250 extra if I have to upgrade to 1" gas line. $45/ft over and above the 12" term that will be included. I will include the plumbing kit and upto 10' of gas and plumbing pipes."

What do you guys think? I will refrain from naming the contractor to avoid violating any RFD rules, if you need his info, PM me.

Other contractors can also PM me pricing for 10 installations and 15 installations.

[bririp]

Venting has to be done by a licensed gas tech to be legal.

[NCHC James]

I just looked at the manual on the Rinnai site, and there's a "CSA Design Certified" logo on the front page.

Yes Rinnai is certified, they have explained their US models do not have the approval on the units. Unless that has changed, if it is not on the unit it can not be installed legally in Canada.

Since i have not purchased one from the US i can't say any different.

[hellohi]

Another in Ottawa. I'm interested in either the Rinnai R75LSi or the R95LSi depending on the pricing

[mcplar]

how are the electric ones? I don't have NG to the house.

Basically have the following:

2 showers, dishwasher, washing machine, and sinks.

[c153]

they are a rip off

[hyperactiveme]

add me if possible

[DealMakerLoverBreaker]

I assume that is the price after the rebates?

I think as per RFD rules contractors are not allowed to post the price in the forum, so one of the contractors PMed this information to me:

"If the interest is there, I can do these units installed for $2099+gst if over 10 people are in. This will include basic install. It will be $250 extra if I have to upgrade to 1" gas line. $45/ft over and above the 12" term that will be included. I will include the plumbing kit and upto 10' of gas and plumbing pipes."

What do you guys think? I will refrain from naming the contractor to avoid violating any RFD rules, if you need his info, PM me.

Other contractors can also PM me pricing for 10 installations and 15 installations.

[skanji]

As a long time RFD Member, thanks to the OP for organizing this. Strength in numbers for sure! (I think) I'm one of agiga's 5 from Ottawa.

Could the mods please post here if there is a problem. This is the one area that rfd doesn't do a good enough job of. If a bunch of us wish to do a group buy, the rules from rfd prevent some of the key ways for us to communicate.

If it's easier mods, we can take this off line, but you will be losing traffic by us doing this, as well as preventing more members from accessing this deal.

thanks in advance!

[roger12]

I assume that is the price after the rebates?

This price is before any rebates.

For some rebates, you will need to go through pre and post energy audit. I think Enbridge doesn't require the audit.

[roger12]

As a long time RFD Member, thanks to the OP for organizing this. Strength in numbers for sure! (I think) I'm one of agiga's 5 from Ottawa.

Could the mods please post here if there is a problem. This is the one area that rfd doesn't do a good enough job of. If a bunch of us wish to do a group buy, the rules from rfd prevent some of the key ways for us to communicate.

If it's easier mods, we can take this off line, but you will be losing traffic by us doing this, as well as preventing more members from accessing this deal.

thanks in advance!

I second skanji's comments. Because of the RFD rules, I am getting bombarded with PMs.

List updated, please let me know if I missed your name.

Currently 14 GTA members and 8 Ottawa members are interested.

[fch]

Few questions?

1) Please confirm that pricing is for Rinnai R75LSI?
2) Tank is purchased by contractor in Canada and comes with warranty
3) How long is the parts and Labour warranty

I think as per RFD rules contractors are not allowed to post the price in the forum, so one of the contractors PMed this information to me:

"If the interest is there, I can do these units installed for $2099+gst if over 10 people are in. This will include basic install. It will be $250 extra if I have to upgrade to 1" gas line. $45/ft over and above the 12" term that will be included. I will include the plumbing kit and upto 10' of gas and plumbing pipes."

What do you guys think? I will refrain from naming the contractor to avoid violating any RFD rules, if you need his info, PM me.

Other contractors can also PM me pricing for 10 installations and 15 installations.

[bririp]

. :)

[skanji]

When will the appeal to rfd members close? I assume some are in more of a rush to buy than others, and moreover none of us want to lose the rebate?

[roger12]

I think as per RFD rules contractors are not allowed to post the price in the forum, so one of the contractors PMed this information to me:

"If the interest is there, I can do these units installed for $2099+gst if over 10 people are in. This will include basic install. It will be $250 extra if I have to upgrade to 1" gas line. $45/ft over and above the 12" term that will be included. I will include the plumbing kit and upto 10' of gas and plumbing pipes."

What do you guys think? I will refrain from naming the contractor to avoid violating any RFD rules, if you need his info, PM me.

Other contractors can also PM me pricing for 10 installations and 15 installations.

This price is before any rebates. Since this is the best price so far, can the interested members start responding in the forum? I guess we need confirmations.

This contractor also said no extra charge for Ottawa installations.

Other contractors are still welcome to PMme a quote.

[roger12]

When will the appeal to rfd members close? I assume some are in more of a rush to buy than others, and moreover none of us want to lose the rebate?

Start by posting CONFIRMED in the forum, I can compile it and put it in the first post.

[skanji]

I second skanji's comments. Because of the RFD rules, I am getting bombarded with PMs.

List updated, please let me know if I missed your name.

Currently 14 GTA members and 8 Ottawa members are interested.

Posted the question to mods - post here to discuss rfd's policy so we can keep this thread clean on the deal itself:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8631232

[skanji]

Start by posting CONFIRMED in the forum, I can compile it and put it in the first post.

I am CONFIRMED based on the price and availability of install in Ottawa. But again, my number is probably reflected in agiga's number. It may be good for us to collect nominal deposits to ensure people are serious and don't back away at the last minute - $25 or something to someone reliable?

[DrXenon]

I am interested in obtaining an R75 at the US price, for pickup in Toronto.

[Moonstruck]

Start by posting CONFIRMED in the forum, I can compile it and put it in the first post.

Hi Roger12,
CONFIRM....

[Genblue]

How much would a small 2gal buffer tank be on the input?

[Munchos]

Yes Rinnai is certified, they have explained their US models do not have the approval on the units. Unless that has changed, if it is not on the unit it can not be installed legally in Canada.

Since i have not purchased one from the US i can't say any different.


I know the Rinnai 75lsi model was CSA certified and was also bought off of Ebay. Otherwise, I would've never installed it for him.

People have to be VERY careful when buying these tankless units. A LOT of new and older homes only have 3/4" gas line coming in and they are almost always unable to supply enough gas for a tankless unit. Plus be very careful of where you think you can put it as you need your clearances, especially in a basement. Some you can't terminate under a deck, 3 or 4 ' from a window that opens, etc.... and some you will need a snorkel kit to allow for clearances from the ground.

And to the OP, the shutoff valve kit for the water, and the concentric venting will that be able to get a group discount? The venting you will have to buy but the valves are optional but I would HIGHLY recommend getting them.

[agiga]

Start by posting CONFIRMED in the forum, I can compile it and put it in the first post.

I am confirmed as well. Since skanji confirmed, that's 2 of my 5 confirmed and I will come back with confirmations from the other 3 in my group.

[yjzeng]

Confirm

[DealMakerLoverBreaker]

Please forgive me for being skeptical but I'm curious how such a company can offer a price thats $700-900 less than group discounted price of other contractors. With the rebates of ~$700 this would mean we'd be getting this unit for like $1400 which is probably cheaper than the install of a regular tank unit. Does anyone else wonder about this?

This price is before any rebates.

For some rebates, you will need to go through pre and post energy audit. I think Enbridge doesn't require the audit.

[roger12]

Please forgive me for being skeptical but I'm curious how such a company can offer a price thats $700-900 less than group discounted price of other contractors. With the rebates of ~$700 this would mean we'd be getting this unit for like $1400 which is probably cheaper than the install of a regular tank unit. Does anyone else wonder about this?
Don't you think other companies have a big markup specially if this tank is available for USD 1000 plus tax? PMme and I can tell you the name of the contractor, you should be able to do some research on him....

Comment from contractor which I agree with: "i am taking $500 off my reg rfd price and a lot of that is being taken care of by my supplier. The rebates have nothing to do with me, they come from the gov. or enbridge."

Basically the POWER OF GROUP BUY.

[roger12]

This price is before any rebates. Since this is the best price so far, can the interested members start responding in the forum? I guess we need confirmations.

This contractor also said no extra charge for Ottawa installations.

Other contractors are still welcome to PMme a quote.

More info from the contractor (please read it carefully to avoid duplicate questions). If you still have questions, please post in the thread instead of PMing me. Contractor can read your questions and PMme the response. He cannot post the response in the forum due to some RFD rules.

1) The tanks are purchased from the largest supplier in Canada. They are purchased and installed by Rinnai certified technicians. They come with the full Rinnai 12 year limited parts warranty and a 1 year labour. This is for new Rinnai RE75LSiN units (nat gas)

2) I will not need to visit each home. All jobs will be possible. I carry all of the parts that might be needed. As listed before, the basic installation involves mounting on a outside wall using a 12" termination through the wall. 10 ft of gas pipe and plumbing. Gas pipe has to be 1". If it is smaller, it will be $300 to upsize to 1". If we need the 21" termination, there will be an $80 upgrade. We bring everything and as long as people know about the extras we shouldnt have problems. Venting is $50/ft if it isnt on an outside wall.

3) I will also do the units in Ottawa at one time with no extra charge.

4) As for payment, I do have paypal however there is a 3% charge that I would have to pass on as this pricing is bottom line pricing. I will need a 30% deposit from anyone interested. Once I have 10 I will place the order.

Original offer from contractor: If the interest is there, I can do these units installed for $2099+gst if over 10 people are in. This will include basic install. It will be $250 extra if I have to upgrade to 1" gas line. $45/ft over and above the 12" term that will be included. I will include the plumbing kit and upto 10' of gas and plumbing pipes

I think this sums up everything so far, please let me know if anything is missing.

[Question] Email money transfer should be cheaper than paypal in this case. Contractor, will this be ok with you?

This is what I propose everyone should do (suggestions welcome):
1) Get the contractor name, info from me, resolve any issues
2) Continue to post CONFIRM (currently 5 are confirmed)
3) When we hit 10 confirmed members, then pay the advance and book appointment

[yjzeng]

Hi,

I wonder if the contractor can do the ecoEnergy audit at the same time instead of hiring someone else before the installation. Also, can the contractor to send back the rental water tank to directEnergy on behalf of customer & any cost associated with it?

Jimmy

[skanji]

Hi,

I wonder if the contractor can do the ecoEnergy audit at the same time instead of hiring someone else before the installation. Also, can the contractor to send back the rental water tank to directEnergy on behalf of customer & any cost associated with it?

Jimmy

good call....

roger12, perhaps change the title to "Tankless Water Heater Group Buy"?

[roger12]

good call....

roger12, perhaps change the title to "Tankless Water Heater Group Buy"?

sure but how? It only allows me change text of first post.

BTW I updated first post with RFDers who are confirmed so far.

[skanji]

sure but how? It only allows me change text of first post.

BTW I updated first post with RFDers who are confirmed so far.

press edit, and when you get to the edit page, there should be another button to edit...check again (it's kinda dumb, i know!)

[moveez]

I think as per RFD rules contractors are not allowed to post the price in the forum, so one of the contractors PMed this information to me:

"If the interest is there, I can do these units installed for $2099+gst if over 10 people are in. This will include basic install. It will be $250 extra if I have to upgrade to 1" gas line. $45/ft over and above the 12" term that will be included. I will include the plumbing kit and upto 10' of gas and plumbing pipes."

Other contractors can also PM me pricing for 10 installations and 15 installations.

I would like to know if this price includes removing the old water heater and returning it to enbridge? if this is an extra charge, how much?

Waiting on this info before I confirm.

[winks1]

can someone send me more info on the contractor(s) involved in this GB?
thanks;)

[skanji]

I would like to know if this price includes removing the old water heater and returning it to enbridge? if this is an extra charge, how much?

Waiting on this info before I confirm.

Good question.

Call enbridge and find out. Report back here when you do. Guys, although this is a group buy, everyone has to do their part to make this successful.

[agiga]

Good question.

Call enbridge and find out. Report back here when you go. Guys, although this is a group buy, everyone has to do their part to make this successful.

Thank you! Totally agree!

[roger12]

I would like to know if this price includes removing the old water heater and returning it to enbridge? if this is an extra charge, how much?

Waiting on this info before I confirm.

I agree with agiga and skanji comments above. It really helps if everyone contributes little bit.

From contractor:
I can help out with audits through energuy. I have a great guy who does the gta. I can arrange for the audit but the customer pays them directly. I do not make any money off of it, but tohelp out I can do this.

Removal is not included, it will be $100 for me to take them away to D.E. The customer is in charge of finding out if there is any contract/charges involved. If the customer call D.E directly they are usually pretty easy going with this and will come for free to get it. They did this at my house and a few of my friends.

[DealMakerLoverBreaker]

Is the R75LSI sufficient for most homes? If we req'd a larger model what would the increased cost be?

Thanks

[Jenny1975]

Confirmed interested in Ottawa, subject to verification of the contract terms for the existing rental unit. Also, only moving in August, so any work would need to be deferred to late summer/early fall.

[agiga]

Confirmed interested in Ottawa, subject to verification of the contract terms for the existing rental unit. Also, only moving in August, so any work would need to be deferred to late summer/early fall.

Hi Jenny,

We will be getting these units installed likely in June or at the latest July to take advantage of the enbridge rebates that expire at the end of August. So if we go with the contractor from the GTA that won't work for you because he is doing this all in one trip. However if someone from Ottawa steps up that might be a different story.

[roger12]

Is the R75LSI sufficient for most homes? If we req'd a larger model what would the increased cost be?

Thanks

Confirmed interested in Ottawa, subject to verification of the contract terms for the existing rental unit. Also, only moving in August, so any work would need to be deferred to late summer/early fall.

Contractor response:
The R75 is more than enough for any standard household with upto 2 showers running at once. The upgraded r94 model only provides about .8gal/min more than the R75 in our climate.

As for the person in ottawa.

I will probably be doing the ottawa jobs in two trips if everyone who has shown interest goes ahead. If the deposit is paid in time for the group buy, I can still get this pricing for her for late august.

[agiga]

Contractor response:
The R75 is more than enough for any standard household with upto 2 showers running at once. The upgraded r94 model only provides about .8gal/min more than the R75 in our climate.

As for the person in ottawa.

I will probably be doing the ottawa jobs in two trips if everyone who has shown interest goes ahead. If the deposit is paid in time for the group buy, I can still get this pricing for her for late august.

That's great news Mr. Contractor! More people in the group the better for all of us.

[rajchakra]

[1) The tanks are purchased from the largest supplier in Canada. They are purchased and installed by Rinnai certified technicians. They come with the full Rinnai 12 year limited parts warranty and a 1 year labour. This is for new Rinnai RE75LSiN units (nat gas)

Comment:That is great news.

2) I will not need to visit each home. All jobs will be possible. I carry all of the parts that might be needed. As listed before, the basic installation involves mounting on a outside wall using a 12" termination through the wall. 10 ft of gas pipe and plumbing. Gas pipe has to be 1". If it is smaller, it will be $300 to upsize to 1". If we need the 21" termination, there will be an $80 upgrade. We bring everything and as long as people know about the extras we shouldnt have problems. Venting is $50/ft if it isnt on an outside wall.

Comment: How could you explain this as this will increase your cost to 300+80+50=430 $ in worst possible case.Why are we not allowed to know beforehand what will be my total cost of installation? Please keep in mind that group buy benefit to the users is mainly coming from distributor,if I understand correctly.

3) I will also do the units in Ottawa at one time with no extra charge.

4) As for payment, I do have paypal however there is a 3% charge that I would have to pass on as this pricing is bottom line pricing. I will need a 30% deposit from anyone interested. Once I have 10 I will place the order.

Comment:I don't think it will be problem for us as long as we received proper receipt regarding advance payment.

Original offer from contractor: If the interest is there, I can do these units installed for $2099+gst if over 10 people are in. This will include basic install. It will be $250 extra if I have to upgrade to 1" gas line. $45/ft over and above the 12" term that will be included. I will include the plumbing kit and upto 10' of gas and plumbing pipes

Comment: Not sure why the extra price has increased (250 comes to 300 and 45 to 80),any comments? Am I missing something?

I think this sums up everything so far, please let me know if anything is missing.
Comment: Does the scope of work includes dismantling existing tank and delivered to Direct Energy as well by the Vendor?

[Question] Email money transfer should be cheaper than paypal in this case. Contractor, will this be ok with you?

Question: What is e mail money transfer?

This is what I propose everyone should do (suggestions welcome):
1) Get the contractor name, info from me, resolve any issues
2) Continue to post CONFIRM (currently 5 are confirmed)
3) When we hit 10 confirmed members, then pay the advance and book appointment[/QUOTE]

Question:If it is not possible for the contrator to answer here directly as per RFD rule,OP would you mind taking responsibility to post the answer here once you receive it from contrator?
Question:Also,have you received any other quotation from other contractor yet?

[Jenny1975]

Contractor response:
As for the person in ottawa.

I will probably be doing the ottawa jobs in two trips if everyone who has shown interest goes ahead. If the deposit is paid in time for the group buy, I can still get this pricing for her for late august.

Awesome. That makes for a tight timeline with the move and energy audit, but is still do-able and gets it in under the wire for the Enbridge discount. Losing out on that would really drag out the payback period and make the deal way less appealing.

Just so I'm clear, the basic installation is on the exterior of the home and venting is $50/ft if installed inside the home/vented outside? Any guarantee that "all jobs will be possible" and more importantly, "possible and properly done to code"?

[hyperactiveme]

where do we sign up for the group buy?

[roger12]

Awesome. That makes for a tight timeline with the move and energy audit, but is still do-able and gets it in under the wire for the Enbridge discount. Losing out on that would really drag out the payback period and make the deal way less appealing.

Just so I'm clear, the basic installation is on the exterior of the home and venting is $50/ft if installed inside the home/vented outside? Any guarantee that "all jobs will be possible" and more importantly, "possible and properly done to code"?

It is NOT exterior of the home, it is inside the home on a exterior wall. If it is not possible to do on an exterior wall, then venting will be $50/ft.

I am sure he will lose his license if it is not done to code. If I didn't provide you the contractor's contact, please PMme and you may talk to him directly.

I feel most small businesses get their customers through word of mouth, so they wouldn't wanna hurt their business for some one time gains. I am sure RFDers will make this contractor very popular (either positive or negative), haha.

[roger12]

where do we sign up for the group buy?

Right here on the forum by saying "CONFIRMED". Before doing that, make sure you read all the details in my posts carefully to avoid any issues.

[roger12]

I am interested in obtaining an R75 at the US price, for pickup in Toronto.

Do you want to volunteer for organizing this?

[navaz]

I want to say confirmed but I am concerned about the installation. Mentioned that unit has to be mounted to an external wall but that wall in my furnace room has my fuse box and a lot of other stuff. Is there anyway I could contact the contractor before comitting so as to be able for him to give me an idea if its doable as a basis install or will I have to pay a lot more.

Confirmed if doable for 2100.

Also, is it advantageous to have the contractor call Energuy or should I just set it up myself?

Thanks for all the insights and comments on the two threads read a lot of the first one and all of this one.

cheers
Navaz

[roger12]

I want to say confirmed but I am concerned about the installation. Mentioned that unit has to be mounted to an external wall but that wall in my furnace room has my fuse box and a lot of other stuff. Is there anyway I could contact the contractor before comitting so as to be able for him to give me an idea if its doable as a basis install or will I have to pay a lot more.

Confirmed if doable for 2100.

Also, is it advantageous to have the contractor call Energuy or should I just set it up myself?

Thanks for all the insights and comments on the two threads read a lot of the first one and all of this one.

cheers
Navaz

PMed contractor info to you. I'd appreciate if other members who already have the contractor info volunteer some of their time for answering such questions :)

[skanji]

When will we be closed from accepting members into the group buy? I think it should be when we hit 10 members, assuming the contractor can't do any better deal for 15 of us.

[roger12]

[1) The tanks are purchased from the largest supplier in Canada. They are purchased and installed by Rinnai certified technicians. They come with the full Rinnai 12 year limited parts warranty and a 1 year labour. This is for new Rinnai RE75LSiN units (nat gas)

Comment:That is great news.

2) I will not need to visit each home. All jobs will be possible. I carry all of the parts that might be needed. As listed before, the basic installation involves mounting on a outside wall using a 12" termination through the wall. 10 ft of gas pipe and plumbing. Gas pipe has to be 1". If it is smaller, it will be $300 to upsize to 1". If we need the 21" termination, there will be an $80 upgrade. We bring everything and as long as people know about the extras we shouldnt have problems. Venting is $50/ft if it isnt on an outside wall.

Comment: How could you explain this as this will increase your cost to 300+80+50=430 $ in worst possible case.Why are we not allowed to know beforehand what will be my total cost of installation? Please keep in mind that group buy benefit to the users is mainly coming from distributor,if I understand correctly.

3) I will also do the units in Ottawa at one time with no extra charge.

4) As for payment, I do have paypal however there is a 3% charge that I would have to pass on as this pricing is bottom line pricing. I will need a 30% deposit from anyone interested. Once I have 10 I will place the order.

Comment:I don't think it will be problem for us as long as we received proper receipt regarding advance payment.

Original offer from contractor: If the interest is there, I can do these units installed for $2099+gst if over 10 people are in. This will include basic install. It will be $250 extra if I have to upgrade to 1" gas line. $45/ft over and above the 12" term that will be included. I will include the plumbing kit and upto 10' of gas and plumbing pipes

Comment: Not sure why the extra price has increased (250 comes to 300 and 45 to 80),any comments? Am I missing something?

I think this sums up everything so far, please let me know if anything is missing.
Comment: Does the scope of work includes dismantling existing tank and delivered to Direct Energy as well by the Vendor?

[Question] Email money transfer should be cheaper than paypal in this case. Contractor, will this be ok with you?

Question: What is e mail money transfer?

This is what I propose everyone should do (suggestions welcome):
1) Get the contractor name, info from me, resolve any issues
2) Continue to post CONFIRM (currently 5 are confirmed)
3) When we hit 10 confirmed members, then pay the advance and book appointment

Question:If it is not possible for the contrator to answer here directly as per RFD rule,OP would you mind taking responsibility to post the answer here once you receive it from contrator?
Question:Also,have you received any other quotation from other contractor yet?[/QUOTE]

Detailed response from contractor:

The $300 1" gasline upgrade is my regular upgrade pricing. I will offer $250 as part of the group buy.

Venting is $50/foot after the 12" termination, however the 21" termination is a different piece just to go through the wall. This isn't just standard venting. Sorry for the confusion with pricing.

I do realize that dealing with the RFD community is risky, and this is why I do the best job possible, everytime. I know this site alone could either make or break my business.

Please remember that I was part of this community (although not registered) for years before I started selling/installing for it. I know both sides of this fence.

Mounting the unit on a different wall is not a problem at all, but for that type of install, there will be an extra charge for venting. This will be priced based on how many feet it is.

As for extra gas piping and plumbing... I have put together pricing that a customer can calculate if and how much and extra would be.

Gas pipe over the 10' included will be $6.50/ft (regular $8.50/ft).

Plumbing over the 10' included will be $12.50/ft (regular $16.50/ft)

If a snorkle is needed, it will be $550. This is very rare. This is needed when we do not have 12" clearance from your joist space. I don't want people to get alarmed, as I say that it is very rare that we need to use this, but that is the price.

As I said before, the tank return is not included but I will dismantle the existing tank and drain it.

A full receipt on deposit and payment will be included with gst and TSSA number.

The discount will be partnered between the distributor and the installation company due to volume.

[roger12]

When will we be closed from accepting members into the group buy? I think it should be when we hit 10 members, assuming the contractor can't do any better deal for 15 of us.

Contractor response:
If I get 10 deposits I can purchase and start installing. We will set the cutoff for may 22nd for deposits.

My supplier will give me the price if I buy 10 and then keep the price until the last week of may.

Contractor also provided me with a link of his reviews on homestars with 9.2 rating out of 10. I guess RFD wont allow me to post it here. So just google contractor name + homestars

[robwc_ca]

Rob in Ottawa here.

I'm tentatively interested in this group buy (and maybe the inlaws too). Thanks to roger12 for pulling all this together.

However, our utility room is quite crowded, and I have a couple of questions to the contractor regarding vent clearances:
- what is the minimum distance above grade for the vent?
- what is the minimum distance between the vent and the gas meter?
- what is the minimum distance between the vent and a window?

And it has been mentioned that we need to have 1" gas pipe in place for this installation (or pay to get it upgraded). What is the outside diameter of 1" pipe. (I assume that 1" refers to the inside diameter.)

I look forward to hearing from you. Feel free to PM me the contractor info if you don't want to be the go-between for all these questions.

Rob

[Jenny1975]

Feel free to PM me the contractor info if you don't want to be the go-between for all these questions.

Rob

PMd you the info.

[winks1]

Connections: Gas Supply: ¾ inch MNPT
Cold Water Inlet: ¾ inch MNPT
Hot Water Outlet: ¾ inch MNPT

since the OD of 3/4" pipe is roughly 1" and the manufacturer calls for 3/4" pipe on their spec sheet, what is this "upgrade" for or is the contractor calling a 3/4" pipe a 1"?

"It will be $250 extra if I have to upgrade to 1" gas line. $45/ft over and above the 12" term that will be included."

also can we choose between NG/LP units?

[roger12]

Rob in Ottawa here.

I'm tentatively interested in this group buy (and maybe the inlaws too). Thanks to roger12 for pulling all this together.

However, our utility room is quite crowded, and I have a couple of questions to the contractor regarding vent clearances:
- what is the minimum distance above grade for the vent?
- what is the minimum distance between the vent and the gas meter?
- what is the minimum distance between the vent and a window?

And it has been mentioned that we need to have 1" gas pipe in place for this installation (or pay to get it upgraded). What is the outside diameter of 1" pipe. (I assume that 1" refers to the inside diameter.)

I look forward to hearing from you. Feel free to PM me the contractor info if you don't want to be the go-between for all these questions.

Rob

Connections: Gas Supply: ¾ inch MNPT
Cold Water Inlet: ¾ inch MNPT
Hot Water Outlet: ¾ inch MNPT

since the OD of 3/4" pipe is roughly 1" and the manufacturer calls for 3/4" pipe on their spec sheet, what is this "upgrade" for or is the contractor calling a 3/4" pipe a 1"?

"It will be $250 extra if I have to upgrade to 1" gas line. $45/ft over and above the 12" term that will be included."

also can we choose between NG/LP units?

Response from contractor:
- what is the minimum distance above grade for the vent? 12"
- what is the minimum distance between the vent and the gas meter? 36"
- what is the minimum distance between the vent and a window? 36" from a window that can be opened. If you close the window and make it inoperable or it doesn't open, it has no clearance requirements.

In theory to run just the tankless unit on a short run the 3/4" would be enough. The only issue is with the fact that we all have furnaces too. Even at the shortest length we need to upgrade to 1" ID gas pipe. You can usually see your size by looking at a fitting. Each 90 degree elbow or Tee usually has the sizing. It should be about 1 1/4" OD.

[tor98]

I am interested in R75LSiN and live in GTA

[skanji]

I am interested in R75LSiN and live in GTA

CONFIRMED? (pls read the thread if you haven't already)

[winks1]

roger12, thanks for keeping up with all the q's... yer doing a hell of a job bro;)

so can we choose between Nat. gas and propane units?

[roger12]

roger12, thanks for keeping up with all the q's... yer doing a hell of a job bro;)

so can we choose between Nat. gas and propane units?

Thanks man!

I didn't even know there are propane units, lol. Anyways I will post contractor response but I think he is getting bulk discount on 1 kind of units (Rinnai 7.5 GPM natural gas).

[navaz]

Confirmed ... i'm in

[roger12]

roger12, thanks for keeping up with all the q's... yer doing a hell of a job bro;)

so can we choose between Nat. gas and propane units?

Contractor response:
I can do the propane units at the same price.

[yjzeng]

Hi,

I wonder if the contractor can take credit card payment. It seem be more safe this way.

[tor98]

CONFIRMED? (pls read the thread if you haven't already)

Are we definitely going with the contractor that roger12 sent me or we are still looking into others? If the contarctor is already set, I suggest that we set a date (evening or weekend), meet with him as a group (in a cofee shop), sign our contracts and give him our deposit cheques.

[old_type]

im interested, nat gas, toronto

but yeah, want to confirm if take credit card

[old_type]

sorry, CONFIRMED

toronto, R75, naturual gas

can we also get a listing of the info to measure and look for in more detail so that we can try to get a closer estimate to the total cost involved

i know all RFDers enjoy the math and measurements + savings, etc

or if i can get contractor info so I can PM and ask directly i will feel a little better

thanks again for organizing this, POWER IN NUMBERS!!!

[roger12]

Hi,

I wonder if the contractor can take credit card payment. It seem be more safe this way.

Are we definitely going with the contractor that roger12 sent me or we are still looking into others? If the contarctor is already set, I suggest that we set a date (evening or weekend), meet with him as a group (in a cofee shop), sign our contracts and give him our deposit cheques.

Contractor had agreed for paypal. Is CC more secure than paypal?

Good point about meeting in a common location, I've asked him. Keep in mind that all the Ottawa RFDers wont be able to join. But I guess GTA RFDers can report back their experience so that everyone can feel more comfortable with the Group buy.

PMed old_type. Please DO NOT say CONFIRMED if you still have question or have any strings attached. Resolve them first!

[Jenny1975]

Contractor had agreed for paypal. Is CC more secure than paypal?

I think CC is more secure than paypal in that the charges can be disputed. CC is my preference also.

Good point about meeting in a common location, I've asked him. Keep in mind that all the Ottawa RFDers wont be able to join. But I guess GTA RFDers can report back their experience so that everyone can feel more comfortable with the Group buy.

As an Ottawa buyer, that sounds good to me.

[roger12]

More details from Contractor

Method of Deposit (receipt issued in all cases):
1) Visit his office in Newmarket by appointment [PMme for address]
2) Mail a chq to his office
3) Come to a group meet [2 options, see below]
4) EMT (costs $2 )
5) Paypal (costs 3% )
6) Credit card through Paypal (costs 3%)

Group Meet:
1) At his distributor in Mississauga. M-F business hours or Sat up to 11am. It has demo of tankless installed with multiple showers running.
2) At a coffee shop somewhere in GTA

He has 4 licensed installers, his head installer will come to group meet to answer any questions.

[navaz]

So is this thing a go. Do we have enough confirmed people already or are we waiting to see if we get more people and possibly a greater discount. Either way thanks for everyone who took the time to help this happen. With respect to the meeting my preference would be to do it at the distributors on a Saturday morning, otherwise a group meeting at a coffee shop in the GTA works for me as well. I like the idea of paying with a credit card as I get a false sense of security but not a deal breaker by any means.

[Jenny1975]

As the Ottawa peeps won't be able to benefit from either the group meet or visiting the office in person, can the contractor send us a contract, either via e-mail or fax detailing the terms and conditions of the deal? i.e. item to be installed, what is included in the basic installation, additional installation fees that may apply if not a basic install, installation date or date range, warranty terms, deposit amount, balance of payment due, etc... the usual stuff.

Sending a deposit with anything less would be irresponsible IMO.

[roger12]

So is this thing a go. Do we have enough confirmed people already or are we waiting to see if we get more people and possibly a greater discount. Either way thanks for everyone who took the time to help this happen. With respect to the meeting my preference would be to do it at the distributors on a Saturday morning, otherwise a group meeting at a coffee shop in the GTA works for me as well. I like the idea of paying with a credit card as I get a false sense of security but not a deal breaker by any means.

We have 8 confirmed (see first post), waiting for 2 more to proceed.

As the Ottawa peeps won't be able to benefit from either the group meet or visiting the office in person, can the contractor send us a contract, either via e-mail or fax detailing the terms and conditions of the deal? i.e. item to be installed, what is included in the basic installation, additional installation fees that may apply if not a basic install, installation date or date range, warranty terms, deposit amount, balance of payment due, etc... the usual stuff.

Sending a deposit with anything less would be irresponsible IMO.

This is a purchase not renting or leasing so there should be a receipt instead of a contract. But I am not sure....In any case GTA members can scan and email anything that we receive during group meeting.

BTW he provided some references:

"Here are some RFD members who I have installed units for in the past month.

Sternem
Deal Maker
KSYC"

[shawn99]

i'm interested in natural gas, Toronto

[sternem]

I was asked to provide a reference for the contractor in question.

Here my experience with the install. I had asked for a friday afternoon appointment. At 4pm I received a call from the person they got to do the install. He thought that it would take a while and being a Friday asked if I could be available sometime that weekend instead of going late into the night. I agreed to a Sunday morning 8:30am. It definitely took a lot longer than expected, even though I needed my furnace's power vent moved. They thought they were finished by 5pm, but I had noticed some leaking. They worked on it a bit more and finished by 6:30pm. Later that evening it was still leaking. The person came back out the next day and worked on it a bit more. No leaking since then.

Though the install took the better part of the day, and they had to come out to fix the leak, I was impressed with how neat the install ended up being. The guys that did the install were friendly and answered any questions that I had patiently.

The contractor himself was quick to answer questions and followed up shortly after the install to see how things went. Overall I'd go with him again.

[kasm]

I have 3 outstanding concerns.

Firstly, I can't seem to find the installer on Rinnai's website: http://www.rinnai.us/find-a-dealer . I'm concerned that they are not an official licensed installer. Their ratings on homestars is quite good though, but most reviewers there do not have other reviews or long standing accounts.

Second, I have 3/4" in gas pipe and the water heater would be about 10 feet from the gas meter. I have a furnace and a gas fireplace. I have talked to 2 other contractors they stated that the 3/4" would be fine and I would not have to upgrade to a 1" pipe. They both actually came over and did a visual inspection. The info in this thread has a blanket assumption that everyone needs to upgrade to a 1" pipe without even looking at each situatlion.

Finally, the payment option of 30% down and paypal only has me a bit concerned. Most contractors will take various payment options such as cheque or credit card.

[roger12]

I have 3 outstanding concerns.

Firstly, I can't seem to find the installer on Rinnai's website: http://www.rinnai.us/find-a-dealer . I'm concerned that they are not an official licensed installer. Their ratings on homestars is quite good though, but most reviewers there do not have other reviews or long standing accounts.

Second, I have 3/4" in gas pipe and the water heater would be about 10 feet from the gas meter. I have a furnace and a gas fireplace. I have talked to 2 other contractors they stated that the 3/4" would be fine and I would not have to upgrade to a 1" pipe. They both actually came over and did a visual inspection. The info in this thread has a blanket assumption that everyone needs to upgrade to a 1" pipe without even looking at each situatlion.

Finally, the payment option of 30% down and paypal only has me a bit concerned. Most contractors will take various payment options such as cheque or credit card.

Please read my posts, I have detailed 6 payment methods! Since you are in Mississauga, you should come to the group meeting at contractor's distributor.

[roger12]

I have 3 outstanding concerns.

Second, I have 3/4" in gas pipe and the water heater would be about 10 feet from the gas meter. I have a furnace and a gas fireplace. I have talked to 2 other contractors they stated that the 3/4" would be fine and I would not have to upgrade to a 1" pipe. They both actually came over and did a visual inspection. The info in this thread has a blanket assumption that everyone needs to upgrade to a 1" pipe without even looking at each situatlion.


Contractor response:
I saw the concern about the 3/4" piping.

10' of 3/4" pipe will only carry 274,000 btu. the tankless requires 199,000 btu.

In theory if your furnace is small, such as a 40,000btu-60,000btu and your longest run is less than 10', 3/4" will work.

20' of 3/4" only carries 188,000 btu which wouldn't even run the tankless unit.

This is standard piping practice. This is usually oversized quite a bit, however it is code and it is the only way I will perform this work.

Chances are if you have less than 25' to your furthest appliance, 3/4" will work without problems. In the winter when your furnace and tankless are drawing, your furnace will most probably turn off due to lack of gas.

Some installers will bend these rules, unfortunately I will not.

[Jenny1975]

This is a purchase not renting or leasing so there should be a receipt instead of a contract. But I am not sure....In any case GTA members can scan and email anything that we receive during group meeting.


Yes, I understand this is a purchase, but there should still be a sales contract/agreement stating that the contractor will supply and install the product at such a time and at such price. Standard business practice, I would think... In addition to providing a receipt for the deposit.

[roger12]

Mods have deleted the spam post, so no need for my response to it.

[roger12]

I have 3 outstanding concerns.

Firstly, I can't seem to find the installer on Rinnai's website: http://www.rinnai.us/find-a-dealer . I'm concerned that they are not an official licensed installer. Their ratings on homestars is quite good though, but most reviewers there do not have other reviews or long standing accounts.


Contractor response to first concern, other 2 have been addressed before:

I assure you that I am a registered Rinnai installer and will try on Monday to get updated onto that list through my supplier.

The fact that I am going to have the meeting at the largest Rinnai distributor in Canada should show that I am full accredited as you cannot purchase these units without being certified.

I will also do my best to have the Southern Ontario sales rep present at the same time in order to help comfort customers worries.

[roger12]

Yes, I understand this is a purchase, but there should still be a sales contract/agreement stating that the contractor will supply and install the product at such a time and at such price. Standard business practice, I would think... In addition to providing a receipt for the deposit.

Contractor response:
You will be getting a Written Estimate and receipt for deposit. I will also supply an "extra" price list which will outline what is included standard, and what would be an extra and at what price.

[moose3833]

Very interested. Let me know where and when the meeting takes place...thanks

[steinberg]

Confirm.

[Munchos]

Contractor response:
I saw the concern about the 3/4" piping.

10' of 3/4" pipe will only carry 274,000 btu. the tankless requires 199,000 btu.

In theory if your furnace is small, such as a 40,000btu-60,000btu and your longest run is less than 10', 3/4" will work.

20' of 3/4" only carries 188,000 btu which wouldn't even run the tankless unit.

This is standard piping practice. This is usually oversized quite a bit, however it is code and it is the only way I will perform this work.

Chances are if you have less than 25' to your furthest appliance, 3/4" will work without problems. In the winter when your furnace and tankless are drawing, your furnace will most probably turn off due to lack of gas.

Some installers will bend these rules, unfortunately I will not.


I don't know where you are getting your numbers from but 10' of schedule 40 at 3/4 will allow 474 000 btus. 20 feet will allow 326 000 btu. I agree one inch is the best route, inthe long run, but not all tankless installs need to have one inch gas lines. I kept scratching my head wondering why it is mandatory to have one inch gas line, even though a visual inspection has not been done to prove that it is needed.

And for the record I would be concerned about buying a tankless unit without any prior visual inspections being done before purchase. There are A LOT of homes that just aren't suitable for one of these units without either a lot of extra costs involved or put in a place that won't be pretty. I wouldn't want to see anybody stuck with a unit that can't be installed or put into a place that they really don't want it to go.

[navaz]

I don't know where you are getting your numbers from but 10' of schedule 40 at 3/4 will allow 474 000 btus. 20 feet will allow 326 000 btu. I agree one inch is the best route, inthe long run, but not all tankless installs need to have one inch gas lines. I kept scratching my head wondering why it is mandatory to have one inch gas line, even though a visual inspection has not been done to prove that it is needed.

And for the record I would be concerned about buying a tankless unit without any prior visual inspections being done before purchase. There are A LOT of homes that just aren't suitable for one of these units without either a lot of extra costs involved or put in a place that won't be pretty. I wouldn't want to see anybody stuck with a unit that can't be installed or put into a place that they really don't want it to go.

If it does put anyone's mind at ease I spoke to the contractor a couple of days ago with some of my installation concerns. I am going to send him some photos of the interior of my furnace room as well as the from the outside of the exterior wall and he will let me know any concerns. Havent gotten around to doing yet but will let you know once I do. However, just from our conversation my mind was put at ease.

[dealfinder2007]

confirmed. Roger12, could you PM the contractor info.

Thanks

[roger12]

confirmed. Roger12, could you PM the contractor info.

Thanks

Done. We have hit our target of 10 confirmed members to get group discount rate.

Members who have confirmed, do you want to have group meeting with head installer at Rinnai distributor in Mississauga? (tentative timeframe Sat May 2, 10 am). I was told by contractor, there will be a live demo as well.

[roger12]

I don't know where you are getting your numbers from but 10' of schedule 40 at 3/4 will allow 474 000 btus. 20 feet will allow 326 000 btu. I agree one inch is the best route, inthe long run, but not all tankless installs need to have one inch gas lines. I kept scratching my head wondering why it is mandatory to have one inch gas line, even though a visual inspection has not been done to prove that it is needed.

And for the record I would be concerned about buying a tankless unit without any prior visual inspections being done before purchase. There are A LOT of homes that just aren't suitable for one of these units without either a lot of extra costs involved or put in a place that won't be pretty. I wouldn't want to see anybody stuck with a unit that can't be installed or put into a place that they really don't want it to go.

Contractor's response:
If for any reason the job cannot be done, or there are circumstances that are not outlined in the "extra's list", I will gladly refund any deposit given by the purchaser.

I usually do on site survey's of the site before quoting, however with this amount of interest and confirmed installs, I will bring anything that will be needed to complete a job properly, and if it is out of the ordinary, We can work on that job between the parties involved.


If it does put anyone's mind at ease I spoke to the contractor a couple of days ago with some of my installation concerns. I am going to send him some photos of the interior of my furnace room as well as the from the outside of the exterior wall and he will let me know any concerns. Havent gotten around to doing yet but will let you know once I do. However, just from our conversation my mind was put at ease.

[old_type]

i think that response alone has put everyone at ease in terms of having issues because there is no on-site inspection prior to deposit

count me in for the Sat appointment, but please confirm with the group if it is happening, or not

don't want to me the one guy that shows up for it and then nobody is there...

thx again for organizing this

[crazybudgie]

I'm very interested in the group buy. Just one question regarding the warranty as I live in Ottawa and I am a bit nervous getting a 1 year labour warranty from an installer from the GTA. Are they going to send someone to Ottawa if I have problems in the first year?

[navaz]

Done. We have hit our target of 10 confirmed members to get group discount rate.

Members who have confirmed, do you want to have group meeting with head installer at Rinnai distributor in Mississauga? (tentative timeframe Sat May 2, 10 am). I was told by contractor, there will be a live demo as well.

Sat at 10am works for me

[yjzeng]

I may not be able to attend the meeting since I need to work that day (please pm me the meeting detail just in case I will attend). But, as long as everyone else in the meeting shows confidence over this deal, I will proceed with it.

Also, please note that I will need to get the ecoEnergy audit done first. From my understanding, the contractor will provide someone who is certified to perform the auditing before hand but it will be straightly between me & the auditor.

[tor98]

Members who have confirmed, do you want to have group meeting with head installer at Rinnai distributor in Mississauga? (tentative timeframe Sat May 2, 10 am). I was told by contractor, there will be a live demo as well.

Saturday 10 a.m. works for me as well

[moveez]

I would like to know if this price includes removing the old water heater and returning it to enbridge? if this is an extra charge, how much?


Good question.
Call enbridge and find out. Report back here when you do.

I agree with agiga and skanji comments above. It really helps if everyone contributes little bit.

From contractor:
... Removal is not included, it will be $100 for me to take them away to D.E. The customer is in charge of finding out if there is any contract/charges involved. If the customer call D.E directly they are usually pretty easy going with this and will come for free to get it. They did this at my house and a few of my friends.

Just called Direct Energy.
If your rental tank is 15yrs or older, they will come pick it up for free.
If your rental tank is newer than 15 years, they charge $75 to pick it up.
Keep this in mind when you are calculating your pricing as most of us must now add $75 (or $100 if the contractor does it) to the total costs involved.

[dealfinder2007]

Members who have confirmed, do you want to have group meeting with head installer at Rinnai distributor in Mississauga? (tentative timeframe Sat May 2, 10 am). I was told by contractor, there will be a live demo as well.

Please keep me informed, I may be able to attend.

[roger12]

I had requested fellow RFDers about the contractor, here KSYC's comments:

Hi Roger12,

I just looked through your group buy and looks like you guys are all set to install the tankless unit. I recently installed the Rinnai R75Lsi and also a Goodman AC unit with **** and overall I was very satisfied with the installation.

I found ***'s contact through the forums like you have and I started to contact him with questions and prices. *** was courteous and provided a quick response to the questions and concerns I had. ***'s crew arrived on time and completed the installation and also removed my old 75 gallon water tank for me which is not an easy task. My installation required an upgrade to the 1" pipe and an extended vent pipe so therefore the installation took a little longer.

Since using the tankless for about 3 weeks now, the only difference that I have noticed is that it takes anywhere from 3-6 seconds longer to get hot water up to the second floor. We only have 2 poeple in the house, so the most hot water we used concurrently is with one shower and the kitchen faucet, so we haven't tried to reach the peak flow rate that the unit is capable of doing.

Hope this helps and PM me if you have any questions.

Sternem had provided feedback in a post couple of days back.
Deal Maker PMed me saying that he will post pics and review of contractor's work soon....

[roger12]

Done. We have hit our target of 10 confirmed members to get group discount rate.

Members who have confirmed, do you want to have group meeting with head installer at Rinnai distributor in Mississauga? (tentative timeframe Sat May 2, 10 am). I was told by contractor, there will be a live demo as well.

Sorry guyz, I posted a tentative time for group meet without talking to contractor first. Turns out he may be busy but will confirm by Wednesday. Alternatively I proposed May 9 Sat 10am to him.

If anyone is in a rush to get it installed and cant wait for May 9, let me know.

[navaz]

Well I booked the guy at Energuy that the contractor recommended on May 27th as I am under the impression we are looking for installation in June or July. If I need to move this up please let me know.

thx Navaz

[Inno]

I am interested. Would like to confirm that I will be able to get all the rebates.
I had an energy audit done about 4 years ago under the Enersave program. How does the rebate work in conjunction with my old audit?

Anyone know? I am definitely in if I can get the rebates.

[Munchos]

I am interested. Would like to confirm that I will be able to get all the rebates.
I had an energy audit done about 4 years ago under the Enersave program. How does the rebate work in conjunction with my old audit?

Anyone know? I am definitely in if I can get the rebates.

SOL they expire after 3 years. You will have to sign up for another energy audit at about $350.

[Inno]

SOL they expire after 3 years. You will have to sign up for another energy audit at about $350.

Can anyone help me with the math? If I have to blow $350 on a useless audit what are the amounts of the various rebates that I will get back?

[roger12]

Can anyone help me with the math? If I have to blow $350 on a useless audit what are the amounts of the various rebates that I will get back?
Rebates are from Enbridge, provincial and federal govt and HRTC.

Please start a new thread to discuss rebates. I request everyone to use this thread for discussion directly related to Group Buy. People have complained that this thread has gotten too long and it is hard to find relevant info.

[BTTNext]

Roger I'm in on this for sure if the contractor is willing to come to my house first to take a look at my furnace room and see if this unit can meet my house needs. Would this be possible?

[primusd]

Hi all,

I've looked around here before but never posted... much appreciate all the helpful info!

Roger12, I am most interested (I was already planning my eco audit to prepare for the rebate) but had a few questions for the contractor... could you please PM me the info. I am also interested to attend any meeting, so will watch for details.

I know the rebate issue was suggested for another thread (so please no follow up here), but as I was just doing the research myself yesterday and figured I'd try to contribute back right off the bat:

Latest Fed info here [March 09 update]:
http://www.oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residential/personal/retrofit-homes/pdf/homes-grant-e.pdf

Province of Ontario:
http://www.homeenergyontario.ca

Enbridge
www.enbridge.com/tankless

Many thanks in advance.

[gocolts]

If a snorkle is needed, it will be $550. This is very rare. This is needed when we do not have 12" clearance from your joist space. I don't want people to get alarmed, as I say that it is very rare that we need to use this, but that is the price.



I am very interested in Ottawa but was wondering how to figure the clearance issue out. If someone could please PM me the contractors number, I would appreciate it so I could call him directly.

[roger12]

PMed all three RFDers above.

Also answered all outstanding PMs. If there are any issues, please let me know.

[vr6man25]

confirmed plus humidifier

[xaveryptak]

Just wondering if there is any interest for this area and if the contractor in question is able to do the install here?

[plugdat]

i had 2 assessments done and both installers indicated a 3/4" line would more than suffice

[roger12]

i had 2 assessments done and both installers indicated a 3/4" line would more than suffice

Please ask the contractor directly. Every situation is unique. I have PMed you contractor info.

[roger12]

I am getting some PMs if more people can join Group Buy. So I will summarize:

1) I encourage everyone to read my posts for all details, it should answer 95% of your questions. You should then get in touch with contractor for any specific concerns. After complete satisfaction, post CONFIRMED.

2) Anyone who gives the deposit by May 22 will get group buy price. (details of how to give deposit detailed in earlier post)

3) If you are confirmed, you may come to group meeting at distributor in Mississauga to give you deposit and get receipt. (more details will be PMed later).

4) So far we have 11 CONFIRMED and 3 almost confirmed.

[Tammy101]

Hi Roger, I am interested. Can you PM me the contractor's infos, I have a few questions to ask myself.

Thanks.

[symbian]

Please pm me the contractor's contact info too.

Thanks,

[pmarcovi]

I am very interested to join the deal. I am worried that R75LSi is too small for my house. Is it possible to go for the bigger R94LSi unit? O course with some extra $ ...

[plugdat]

I am very interested to join the deal. I am worried that R75LSi is too small for my house. Is it possible to go for the bigger R94LSi unit? O course with some extra $ ...

Based on my research and what several installers said was going to the R94 only adds 0.5 to 0.8 GPMs which isnt' much at all

[pmarcovi]

I am definitely interested. So CONFIRMED!

Please keep me in the loop with the info about the meet ... I can give the deposit then, right?

[mdclements]

I am interested but I have a couple of questions for the contractor. Could you PM me his contact info? Thanks. This is for an installation in Oshawa.

[Genblue]

Roger12, if we can hit the 15 or 20 unit target, is there any chance of shaving off another $100 or $200 for everyone?

For anyone using Union Gas, I've confirmed that they don't offer any rebates on tankless installs (unlike Enbridge).

Can you ask the contractor how much a 2 gal buffer tank at the input to the unit would be? This would help reduce the cold blast of water that you'll get in January and February until the unit kicks in.

[roger12]

I am definitely interested. So CONFIRMED!

Please keep me in the loop with the info about the meet ... I can give the deposit then, right?

Deposit at meeting is ok. One of the main reasons for meeting is to give deposit and get receipt.

Roger12, if we can hit the 15 or 20 unit target, is there any chance of shaving off another $100 or $200 for everyone?

For anyone using Union Gas, I've confirmed that they don't offer any rebates on tankless installs (unlike Enbridge).

Can you ask the contractor how much a 2 gal buffer tank at the input to the unit would be? This would help reduce the cold blast of water that you'll get in January and February until the unit kicks in.

I think contractor already said this is his bottomline. We have already achieved out target of 10 to get group discount. More members can be included in the group price if deposit is paid on time (see my post on previous page)

Good idea about buffer tank, please ask him directly and post the response :)

PMed contractor info to all who asked. Replied to all PMs as well...

BTW dont forget to post your experience once you get it installed!

[rajchakra]

Confirmed

[correiaz]

If there is any interest in servicing the Guelph area, I would definitely be interested in a unit.

College/Gordon area

[Deal_seeker1]

Roger12 or anyone,

I am very interested. Please PM me the contractor's info. I am in GTA.

Thanks in advance.

[Inno]

Confirmed. But out of town on Sat. so can't make the meeting.

[slgta]

I am interested, but the closing date of my house will be in mid September.

Maybe we can arrange another group buy in the fall?!

roger12, can you put the list of rebate/tax credits, amount and deadline on post#1.

Thanks.

[roger12]

Replied to all PMs.

[Deal_seeker1]

Has anyone checked out the R75LSi unit review. It seems Rinnai does not have a good review here.

Their customer seems to be not very happy.

http://www.greenerbuilding.org/product_detail.php?cid=56&pid=62

Any thoughts?

[slgta]

Has anyone checked out the R75LSi unit review. It seems Rinnai does not have a good review here.

Their customer seems to be not very happy.

http://www.greenerbuilding.org/product_detail.php?cid=56&pid=62

Any thoughts?

Wow, it did have a bunch of negatives comment about this brand.
It seems to be contradicting with what the professional (installer) have said on this thread.
Hmmm, sounds like we need to do more research on this unit/brand.

[roger12]

Has anyone checked out the R75LSi unit review. It seems Rinnai does not have a good review here.

Their customer seems to be not very happy.

http://www.greenerbuilding.org/product_detail.php?cid=56&pid=62

Any thoughts?

I am going to request contractor to comment on this. But here are my 2cents:
1) If the unit was purchased from authorized contractor/distributor, then any defective unit should have been replaced at no cost (at least these are the rules in canada, not sure about US)
2) People buying on ebay or unauthorized places have a greater chance of problem
3) Three RFDers who bought from this contractor confirmed that they dont have any issues (see their review in earlier posts)....

[pmarcovi]

It does sound scary ... I agree with the question: "Is this the best brand?" What about Bosch?

[roger12]

From the contractor:

I have looked at this post and am not suprised. The Rinnai units are great and I rarely ever have any issues with the manufacturing of them.

As with anything, the installation is critical to making these work properly. I do see that there are several of the same review from the same poster. There are also a lot of people who are very happy with it.

As roger said, if it was defective during the warranty period it would have be fixed/replaced by the manufacturer.

All that I can say is that they are great products. I have installed lots of them and have only have 1 problem that was manufacturer related.

I hope this doesn't sour anyone's views on this as they are great units.

[roger12]

FYI: I will PM group meeting information to all those who have confirmed later tonight. It will be 10am on Sat May 2.

[agiga]

Just got off the phone with the contractor. Regarding warranty, he said the unit is covered for parts and labour for 1 year and if there is an issue in that time that we can call Rinnai's toll free number and they will find a locally licensed rep who can service the unit. Beyond that, parts are covered for 12 years but labour is not.

For those that have concerns about extra costs related to additional gas lines, venting etc. The contractor suggested sending him pics of the exterior wall inside and outside your house. I don't have his email address but once I do I'll post it... not sure if that's allowed actually....

[Deal_seeker1]

Roger12 - CONFIRMED. Please PM the Sat. May 2 group meeting info.

Thanks.

[roger12]

Roger12 - CONFIRMED. Please PM the Sat. May 2 group meeting info.

Thanks.

PMed group meeting details to all CONFIRMED.

[moveez]

Can you ask the contractor how much a 2 gal buffer tank at the input to the unit would be? This would help reduce the cold blast of water that you'll get in January and February until the unit kicks in.


Good idea about buffer tank, please ask him directly and post the response :)



any response yet about the price of the buffer tank?


Contractor response to first concern, other 2 have been addressed before:

I assure you that I am a registered Rinnai installer and will try on Monday to get updated onto that list through my supplier.

The fact that I am going to have the meeting at the largest Rinnai distributor in Canada should show that I am full accredited as you cannot purchase these units without being certified.

I will also do my best to have the Southern Ontario sales rep present at the same time in order to help comfort customers worries.

i am worried that this contractor is not on the registered dealer list. his message above said he would try to get on the list for monday but now it is friday and he is still not on the list. i am worried the the warranty will not be valid if he is not registered.

also is this contractor planning on doing all the work himself or will he be subcontracting. if subcontracting, will they be Rinnai licensed subcontractors?

i have to work this weekend and won't be able to make it to the meeting. if someone could find out these details please post the answers here.

[roger12]

i am worried that this contractor is not on the registered dealer list. his message above said he would try to get on the list for monday but now it is friday and he is still not on the list. i am worried the the warranty will not be valid if he is not registered.

also is this contractor planning on doing all the work himself or will he be subcontracting. if subcontracting, will they be Rinnai licensed subcontractors?

i have to work this weekend and won't be able to make it to the meeting. if someone could find out these details please post the answers here.

Last night I received a PM saying contractor will subcontract to unlicensed people. In response contractor sent me his Rinnai license number and his correspondence with Rinnai rep to get his name listed on Rinnai site.

I encourage members who have any doubt to get this info from the contractor and confirm themselves.

[roger12]

any response yet about the price of the buffer tank?


Contractor response:
Please post the price for two gal expansion tank will be $149

[ivica5683]

It does sound scary ... I agree with the question: "Is this the best brand?" What about Bosch?

It has nothing to do with the brand, it's the technology. I am a builder that refuses to install any more of these units for my customers. The units work when installed correctly. The problem is that people don't know, forget or refuse to perform regular maintenace. These units are very sensitive to lime build up. My issue has been that even with water softeners installed these units require that you delime them. This is a PITA, and will cause you major grief.

[Deal_seeker1]

What's the process involve to delime the unit? Is it simple for the until owner? or a service call is required?

Please advise. Thanks.

[bririp]

These units will have an insolation valve kit installed on them. This makes this service very easy to do and it has detailed instructions in the manual.

[kasm]

What's the process involve to delime the unit? Is it simple for the until owner? or a service call is required?

Please advise. Thanks.

You can either get a service call or do it yourself. If you do it yourself, you'll need a bucket of vinegar and a small pump. Shut off the gas and water, drain the unit, connect the pump to the isolation shutoff valves and circulate the vinegar through the system to clean out the build up, then you flush the system with clean water and reverse the steps.

It's outlined in the Rinnai owner's manual.

[Genblue]

You can either get a service call or do it yourself. If you do it yourself, you'll need a bucket of vinegar and a small pump. Shut off the gas and water, drain the unit, connect the pump to the isolation shutoff valves and circulate the vinegar through the system to clean out the build up, then you flush the system with clean water and reverse the steps.

It's outlined in the Rinnai owner's manual.
How often does the Owner's Manual suggest to do this?

[Munchos]

How often does the Owner's Manual suggest to do this?

Probably yearly. But considering how many people dont even change their furnace filter......

[Deal_seeker1]

For your information, I talked to the contractor on Friday May 1, the service call after the 1 year warranty period is $ 120 for the first hour and addition hour after that is $ 80/per hour.

[primusd]

Roger, unfortunately I cannot make the meeting today, but I am hoping someone/people will be able to post back a report to the list on how it goes. Many thanks in advance to anyone who is able to report back!

I am still very interested in the deal, in at least 2 units actually (and possibly another neighbour or two), though I am put off a bit by the reviews of the Rinnai unit/manufacturer. I was doing some research through my neighbourhood listserv and a few people mentioned Takagi units, both of whom said they had never had a single problem with them (~2 yrs in each case). Is there an interest to look for an alternative to the Rinnai?

[tor98]

Three other members and I attended the meeting. The installer showed up with a few minutes delay. He sounded a bit different than the contractor responses in this forum. He was saying that he has to see each site before he can confirm the feasibility of installation. We gave him our addresses and he said he’ll call each individual and arrange site visits.

[yjzeng]

Three other members and I attended the meeting. The installer showed up with a few minutes delay. He sounded a bit different than the contractor responses in this forum. He was saying that he has to see each site before he can confirm the feasibility of installation. We gave him our addresses and he said he’ll call each individual and arrange site visits.

Hi,

I was not able to attend the meeting due to work. Can you please provide the installer's contact info through PM or email? I'd like to arrange with him to do the on-site inspection.

Thanks,

Jimmy

[navaz]

I was one of the 4 members that made it to the meeting. There were a couple of requirements of the install that made worried. The most significant being a 6 foot seperation between the vent for the furnace and the water heater and between any intake vents as well. I was concerned the cost of installation and even feasibility may be prohibitive so I will not likely go ahead with it until I get an onsite inspection.

I was very impressed that the installer was so honest and did not just take our deposit cheques and he also thought it would make more sense for an inspection to prevent issues down the line. He was going to contact the contractor and figure out how to proceed. So if you have any issues or want to try and get an inspection I think you should just email the contractor as roger gave us all his email and if you want a phone number just let myself of roger know.

cheers
navaz

[Deal_seeker1]

yjzeng - contact info (phone + email) PM to you.

[crazybudgie]

Hi, have any of the Ottawa people had any luck finding a local Ottawa installer for the group buy. I am interested in a group buy but I would like to have a longer parts and labour warranty. Holmes Heating in Ottawa offers a 10 year parts and labour warranty on their Rinnai unit for an extra $250 and I really feel like I want the option of a warranty as I'm not sure what can go wrong with this unit down the road. I am presently dealing with them on the purchase of a furnace and A/C unit, so I could ask the salesguy if they are open to a group buy...

[Munchos]

I was one of the 4 members that made it to the meeting. There were a couple of requirements of the install that made worried. The most significant being a 6 foot seperation between the vent for the furnace and the water heater and between any intake vents as well. I was concerned the cost of installation and even feasibility may be prohibitive so I will not likely go ahead with it until I get an onsite inspection.

I was very impressed that the installer was so honest and did not just take our deposit cheques and he also thought it would make more sense for an inspection to prevent issues down the line. He was going to contact the contractor and figure out how to proceed. So if you have any issues or want to try and get an inspection I think you should just email the contractor as roger gave us all his email and if you want a phone number just let myself of roger know.

cheers
navaz

Are you absolutely sure its 6 feet away for the combustion air for the furnace? It is usually only 3 feet from any intake (this is concentric venting so 3 feet from the exhaust as well) and 6 feet from any HRV mechanical intake. Looking at the online manual for the 75si, it only mentions 3 feet as well.

Like I said before, these units are, in most cases, pretty difficult to find a suitable spot for them. You can get away with a couple things (nailing shut basement windows, moving the vent for the gas meter,etc..) but for the most part you can't.

[old_type]

just got more info from the contractor, i guess "boss"

he said that it should be 3ft instead of the 6ft that was mentioned this morning

so i guess that is in line with the rinnai spec sheet of 3ft

[yjzeng]

Hi,

I just talked to the contractor. He mentioned it did not require on-site inspection as long as you have unfinished basement. With finished basement, there is bit tie or less spaces to put the tankless water heater. You can take some pictures of your basement & he will be able to determine if it is suitable to place it or not.

Also, he mentioned he has three cheques in hand & six in mail. Can anyone please confirm the status of deposit. I plan to send mine in next week.

Thanks,

Jimmy

[plymouthhater]

You can either get a service call or do it yourself. If you do it yourself, you'll need a bucket of vinegar and a small pump. Shut off the gas and water, drain the unit, connect the pump to the isolation shutoff valves and circulate the vinegar through the system to clean out the build up, then you flush the system with clean water and reverse the steps.

It's outlined in the Rinnai owner's manual.

For those who are familiar with tankless water heaters and have owned one for a while now - what pump are you using to flush the system? I Googled tankless water heater flush kit and the prices are relatively high for what they give you...

I am thinking of rigging up one of those electric drill water pumps to a fitting that fits my backflush valve and simply running a gallon of vinegar thru the system for an hour or so using a 5 gal plastic bucket to hold the vinegar.
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5812/screenshot010y.png (http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot010y.png)


I am comming up on my 1st year anniversary for my 7.5 gpm Noritz tankless.

Comments?

[roger12]

Hi,

I just talked to the contractor. He mentioned it did not require on-site inspection as long as you have unfinished basement. With finished basement, there is bit tie or less spaces to put the tankless water heater. You can take some pictures of your basement & he will be able to determine if it is suitable to place it or not.

Also, he mentioned he has three cheques in hand & six in mail. Can anyone please confirm the status of deposit. I plan to send mine in next week.

Thanks,

Jimmy

yup thats the same info I got from him....

90% of the jobs are standard and only might require minor changes. 10% of houses can not be done, but we will address those 1 customer at a time.

I would like to get pictures of most jobs in advance and usually I can get a good idea from those. I would request pictures of the inside and outside where the unit will be mounted.

[NCHC James]

the gas code is 3ft not 6ft.

For those who are familiar with tankless water heaters and have owned one for a while now - what pump are you using to flush the system? I Googled tankless water heater flush kit and the prices are relatively high for what they give you...

I am thinking of rigging up one of those electric drill water pumps to a fitting that fits my backflush valve and simply running a gallon of vinegar thru the system for an hour or so using a 5 gal plastic bucket to hold the vinegar.
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5812/screenshot010y.png (http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot010y.png)


I am comming up on my 1st year anniversary for my 7.5 gpm Noritz tankless.

Comments?

check home depot, they offer a pump with two hoses that has a cost of 89.99 or something like that. the pump you are looking at requires a drill, and will quickly burn your drill out.

[steinberg]

Reply from the contractor: $100 additional charge if you need them to remove and return the water tank. I was thinking this is including with the price like a lot of other companies do... For a large group like this, can they work out something on this?

[moveez]

Reply from the contractor: $100 additional charge if you need them to remove and return the water tank. I was thinking this is including with the price like a lot of other companies do... For a large group like this, can they work out something on this?

this has already been discussed. see below.
also the contractor has done something for the large group. it's called THIS GROUP BUY!
$2099 + $100 removal + gst is a $600 savings of the regular $2800 + gst that the other contractors are charging.

I would like to know if this price includes removing the old water heater and returning it to enbridge? if this is an extra charge, how much?

Good question. Call enbridge and find out. Report back here when you do.

I agree with agiga and skanji comments above. It really helps if everyone contributes little bit.

From contractor:
Removal is not included, it will be $100 for me to take them away to D.E. The customer is in charge of finding out if there is any contract/charges involved. If the customer call D.E directly they are usually pretty easy going with this and will come for free to get it. They did this at my house and a few of my friends.

Just called Direct Energy.
If your rental tank is 15yrs or older, they will come pick it up for free.
If your rental tank is newer than 15 years, they charge $75 to pick it up.
Keep this in mind when you are calculating your pricing as most of us must now add $75 (or $100 if the contractor does it) to the total costs involved.

[Dman]

Last night I received a PM saying contractor will subcontract to unlicensed people. In response contractor sent me his Rinnai license number and his correspondence with Rinnai rep to get his name listed on Rinnai site.

Sorry, just wanted to clarify what was quoted. The installs WILL be subcontracted to UNlicensed people?

[roger12]

Absolutely NOT. Please read the responses carefully! Contractor and his head installer are fully licensed with Rinnai.
Sorry, just wanted to clarify what was quoted. The installs WILL be subcontracted to UNlicensed people?

Thanks moveez!

this has already been discussed. see below.
also the contractor has done something for the large group. it's called THIS GROUP BUY!
$2099 + $100 removal + gst is a $600 savings of the regular $2800 + gst that the other contractors are charging.

[agiga]

Hi, have any of the Ottawa people had any luck finding a local Ottawa installer for the group buy. I am interested in a group buy but I would like to have a longer parts and labour warranty. Holmes Heating in Ottawa offers a 10 year parts and labour warranty on their Rinnai unit for an extra $250 and I really feel like I want the option of a warranty as I'm not sure what can go wrong with this unit down the road. I am presently dealing with them on the purchase of a furnace and A/C unit, so I could ask the salesguy if they are open to a group buy...

Doesn't hurt to have more quotes. Let us know what they say and we can all make a decision based on that info and anything else others report back. I've called some places in Ottawa for group deals and the best I've found is $2700 - $2800 + gst.

[pmarcovi]

I am definitely in now, I gave the deposit :-)

[DealMakerLoverBreaker]

Doesn't hurt to have more quotes. Let us know what they say and we can all make a decision based on that info and anything else others report back. I've called some places in Ottawa for group deals and the best I've found is $2700 - $2800 + gst.

Thats exactly what I have found too. They would only give $100 off for a group buy and a $50 referal bonus.

[Matteo77]

Hi,

Can you please add my name on that list also?

Name: Marius
City: Maple
Unit: Rinnai R75LSi or the R95LSi

What do I have to do to confirm it?

[roger12]

Hi,

Can you please add my name on that list also?

Name: Marius
City: Maple
Unit: Rinnai R75LSi or the R95LSi

What do I have to do to confirm it?

I've PMed info to you. After you are satisfied, post CONFIRMED and pay deposit.

[mart242]

Doesn't hurt to have more quotes. Let us know what they say and we can all make a decision based on that info and anything else others report back. I've called some places in Ottawa for group deals and the best I've found is $2700 - $2800 + gst.

I've just stumbled on this thread while doing some digging regarding the "Newten" rep / door to door salesman that was at my house tonight. Basically, you can get the old tank taken out (they'll buy it out from Oz / Reliance if you're renting it and take it out the house), install a rinnai r75lsin and you end up paying 34$ a month and get a 300$ enbridge rebate.

Yeah yeah, it's 34$ a month (+ inflation) for ~15 years but here's the kicker: the buyout during the 1st year is 2650$ + GST... without having to deal with your tank buyout. That seems a better deal that the 2700 - 2800$ + gst... they also seem a lot less fussy about installation, ie: in my case I need a 20' run for the gas pipe and he said "no problem, no extra charge for that"

Any thoughts on this?

[roger12]

I've just stumbled on this thread while doing some digging regarding the "Newten" rep / door to door salesman that was at my house tonight. Basically, you can get the old tank taken out (they'll buy it out from Oz / Reliance if you're renting it and take it out the house), install a rinnai r75lsin and you end up paying 34$ a month and get a 300$ enbridge rebate.

Yeah yeah, it's 34$ a month (+ inflation) for ~15 years but here's the kicker: the buyout during the 1st year is 2650$ + GST... without having to deal with your tank buyout. That seems a better deal that the 2700 - 2800$ + gst... they also seem a lot less fussy about installation, ie: in my case I need a 20' run for the gas pipe and he said "no problem, no extra charge for that"

Any thoughts on this?
My 2 cents, why rent when you can buy it for 2100+gst and take advantage of all the rebates...

Contractor's response:
Just to let everyone know, I am also a Newten installer. For those who do not wish to purchase a unit, I offer the rental at $34.71/month including basic installation.

[agiga]

I've just stumbled on this thread while doing some digging regarding the "Newten" rep / door to door salesman that was at my house tonight. Basically, you can get the old tank taken out (they'll buy it out from Oz / Reliance if you're renting it and take it out the house), install a rinnai r75lsin and you end up paying 34$ a month and get a 300$ enbridge rebate.

Yeah yeah, it's 34$ a month (+ inflation) for ~15 years but here's the kicker: the buyout during the 1st year is 2650$ + GST... without having to deal with your tank buyout. That seems a better deal that the 2700 - 2800$ + gst... they also seem a lot less fussy about installation, ie: in my case I need a 20' run for the gas pipe and he said "no problem, no extra charge for that"

Any thoughts on this?

Group buy at $2099 + gst is still a way better buy. With your 1 year of rentals + buyout you're still over $3000.

[mart242]

Group buy at $2099 + gst is still a way better buy. With your 1 year of rentals + buyout you're still over $3000.

That's in the GTA... Ottawa appeared to be more expensive as per the quotes above. I would also need to pay the x$ to get my current taken out and break the contract. I'll have to check how much that fee is.

[roger12]

That's in the GTA... Ottawa appeared to be more expensive as per the quotes above.

No, its the same price for GTA and Ottawa. Few Ottawa members are already confirmed.

[mart242]

No, its the same price for GTA and Ottawa. Few Ottawa members are already confirmed.

Hmm, in this case (I totally agree that the 35$ is a rip-off):

Can you ask him how much extra it is for a longer gas run in this case? He'll need to split it near the furnace, total length of ~20' with 3 x 90 degrees turns in there. That brings it to the outside wall with full access to my manifold for my pex home-run system.

[roger12]

Hmm, in this case (I totally agree that the 35$ is a rip-off):

Can you ask him how much extra it is for a longer gas run in this case? He'll need to split it near the furnace, total length of ~20' with 3 x 90 degrees turns in there. That brings it to the outside wall with full access to my manifold for my pex home-run system.

PMed info to you. Cost of extra piping etc are in my other posts. I will try to update first post with relevant links...

[Star*]

Roger, please pm the info to me, thanks.

[yjzeng]

Hi Roger,

I just send out my deposit cheque today. Can you please update the first page status? Also, can the contractor confirm the status of deposit & progress from now on?

Thanks a lot,

Jimmy

[satin1410]

Hi Roger

I am in the market for a Tankless and just read about this "group buy". I am interested and definately in. Please PM me or email the related info and contact info of the contractor

[roger12]

Hi Roger,

I just send out my deposit cheque today. Can you please update the first page status? Also, can the contractor confirm the status of deposit & progress from now on?

Thanks a lot,

Jimmy

Updated.

Hi Roger

I am in the market for a Tankless and just read about this "group buy". I am interested and definately in. Please PM me or email the related info and contact info of the contractor

PMed. Also answered all PMs.

[kohnan]

Mark me down as confirmed. I live in Ottawa and will be sending my deposit shortly. I'll post again once the cheque is in the mail.

Thanks!

[jeeva86]

Is it not possible for the energy companies to install this, that way we can rent them?

[breakfasteatre]

Im interested and i have pmed you roger, looking forward to receiving information on how i can get involved in the group buy.

[roger12]

Mark me down as confirmed. I live in Ottawa and will be sending my deposit shortly. I'll post again once the cheque is in the mail.
Thanks!

Done.

Is it not possible for the energy companies to install this, that way we can rent them?
Not sure if energy companies offer this but you can rent from the contractor offering group buy. See details in post #190.

Im interested and i have pmed you roger, looking forward to receiving information on how i can get involved in the group buy.
PMed info to you. Please read the details of group buy and post CONFIRMED and pay deposit once satisfied

[tamagold]

Roger

I am in Ottawa and interested as well. Can you PMme the info and where are we on group buy. Also can you estimate when the install take place if I confirmed and sent the cheque right away

Thanks

[caprio]

Hi Roger,

I sent you a PM regarding more info. I am definately very interested and I am in Toronto. I have a finished basement so I can take pictures of my furnace room and send it to you or your contacts. If install is possible for my house then I am in.

[jeeva86]

hmm, the renting option looks quite attractive...anyone have it rented and can offer any tips?

[roger12]

IMPORTANT info from CONTRACTOR for ALL CONFIRMED members.

please request that all interested send me 3 or 4 pictures of the inside of the basement/furnace room/area for install and 2 or 3 of the same space, but outdoor. This will give me a great idea on the install and I can request more information if needed.
-----------------------------------------

If you have sent the deposit but you name is not in the first post, please let me know.

PMed info to all who requested. Replied to all PMs.

Hi Roger,
I sent you a PM regarding more info. I am definately very interested and I am in Toronto. I have a finished basement so I can take pictures of my furnace room and send it to you or your contacts. If install is possible for my house then I am in.

[tor98]

The contractor was in my area and picked the deposit cheque up

[fruzmatik]

I am definitely interested in a group buy.
BUT I am skeptical about Rinnai.....

BBB has given them an F in their consumer ratings, and has revoked their accreditation as of March 25, 2009.

Noone else is concerned???
:confused:

edit:

Seems the rating is now a B, but accreditation is still revoked.

http://www.bbb.org/atlanta/business-reviews/appliances-major-wholesale-and-manufacturers/rinnai-america-corporation-in-peachtree-city-ga-9001196

[satin1410]

Hi Guys. I am definately in and now ready to submit my deposit. I wonder what amount we send in as a deposit. Is it some percentage of total amount or a flat charge.

[roger12]

Hi Guys. I am definately in and now ready to submit my deposit. I wonder what amount we send in as a deposit. Is it some percentage of total amount or a flat charge.

PMed info to you...

I am definitely interested in a group buy.
BUT I am skeptical about Rinnai.....


Another member had concerns about Rinnai, I posted contractor's response few pages back.

[moveez]

confirmed and deposit sent.

[navaz]

I was planning on sending the cheque this w/e but contractor requested a couple more photos from where the gas meter is so will send those hopefully tomorrow baring hail and will send the cheque once I get his reply.

[Inno]

I have spoken with the contractor: due to being 10 feet from an outside wall I would need to pay a considerable amount ($50 per foot I think) plus quite a bit for a couple of elbows. I am surprised that plastic piping is so expensive.

Please "un-confirm" me while I digest this unexpected extra expense. It would add several years to my payback period.

[plugdat]

I have spoken with the contractor: due to being 10 feet from an outside wall I would need to pay a considerable amount ($50 per foot I think) plus quite a bit for a couple of elbows. I am surprised that plastic piping is so expensive.

Please "un-confirm" me while I digest this unexpected extra expense. It would add several years to my payback period.

I believe its copper piping

[plugdat]

I am definitely interested in a group buy.
BUT I am skeptical about Rinnai.....

BBB has given them an F in their consumer ratings, and has revoked their accreditation as of March 25, 2009.

Noone else is concerned???
:confused:

edit:

Seems the rating is now a B, but accreditation is still revoked.

http://www.bbb.org/atlanta/business-reviews/appliances-major-wholesale-and-manufacturers/rinnai-america-corporation-in-peachtree-city-ga-9001196


It appears there were only 4 complaints last year
and they didnt' agree on the 1
they had 3 resolved
4 complaints out of how many ?..... i'm not 100% they have great customer service either but it just doen'st sound like alot

[denniscollett]

is there any more group buy tankless waterheaters?
and when and how can i get more information of the group cost?

[whodaphucru]

It appears there were only 4 complaints last year
and they didnt' agree on the 1
they had 3 resolved
4 complaints out of how many ?..... i'm not 100% they have great customer service either but it just doen'st sound like alot

My biggest concern with the Rinnai is the low gpm rates these units get in Canada. For example the 7.5 gpm Rinnai will only operate as a 3.8-4.0 gpm (look at spec sheet on their website) unit during the winter months if you have it set between 115-120 degrees F and incoming water is between 40-45 degrees F. That means it will struggle to provide for 2 showers at the same time if it even can. I am waiting to get a condensing unit instead as they have higher gpm output during the winter months due to higher efficiencies. I would love to here feedback on this after some of the installations occur on the group by to see performance in the real world.

[ossBss]

Hi Guys - I would be interested as well if it can be done without any additional installation cost. I have an AC right outside of the exterior wall of the furnace area - unfinished basement. (Location GTA)

Please PM me the contractor details to discuss and finalize. Thanks.

[breakfasteatre]

my deposit was picked up today

[roger12]

I have spoken with the contractor: due to being 10 feet from an outside wall I would need to pay a considerable amount ($50 per foot I think) plus quite a bit for a couple of elbows. I am surprised that plastic piping is so expensive.

Please "un-confirm" me while I digest this unexpected extra expense. It would add several years to my payback period.

Contractor response:

"The piping he is speaking of is the vent pipe which is PVC outer vent pipe with stainless steel inside pipe. This is specific venting for these units and cannot be modified or replaced with a different type"

The cutoff date for any deposits is 10 days away, so if you still have outstanding questions, please get them resolved asap with contractor. Please don't forget to send him pictures of inside and outside area of installation.

[roger12]

After sending the deposit, please post in the thread so that contractor and I can match the deposit with your screen name.

See first post for the list of members who have paid deposit. Please let me know if there are any errors.

[Styx555]

Confirmed and deposit on it's way. I'm in Ottawa.

[agiga]

My deposit will be in the mail soon.

[Deal_seeker1]

Deposit paid. Contractor has acknowledged receiving the deposit cheque.

[Supra_KL]

if there's a round 2, I am definitely interested.

[valegal]

Confirmed - deposit is in the mail.

[symbian]

Confirmed - deposit is in the mail.

[rajchakra]

My deposit is in the mail..

[dealfinder2007]

deposit in the mail on May 12.

[skanji]

I have one technical question for the contractor before I buy. Can someone please PM me his contact info asap?

[correiaz]

Would like to get one of these units, anyone aware of a contactor in the U of Guelph area (50yr old Bungalow)

pm

[skanji]

Confirmed and deposit on it's way. I'm in Ottawa.

[NubNub]

Confirmed - deposit is in the mail on May 15.

[yjzeng]

It seem that the group buy is a go. Can we start arranging the installation date with contractor yet. I believe that everyone will have perfer date. Can contractor post his earlier installation date & any perference

Thanks,
Jimmy

[roger12]

Would like to get one of these units, anyone aware of a contactor in the U of Guelph area (50yr old Bungalow)

pm

Members in London and Guelph who have PMed me: Contractor said he will go out that way for $199 extra. If he gets 4 in the same area it will be $100 extra/each if they can be scheduled together.

[JWL]

FYI, HD has a Bosch unit on sale for $1000 (obviously doesn't include installation)

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=739357&highlight=tankless

[caprio]

Confirmed. My cheque was sent out today. Hope it will get there by May 22.

[ardo]

I know I'm just 1 day away from the cutoff date, but may I pls. have the contact info? I'll do an electronic payment. TIA.

[roger12]

Please PM or email the contractor with preferred date and time for the install. Installations will start on June 4th.

It seem that the group buy is a go. Can we start arranging the installation date with contractor yet. I believe that everyone will have perfer date. Can contractor post his earlier installation date & any perference

Thanks,
Jimmy

[roger12]

PMed info to you. Also replied to all PMs.

I know I'm just 1 day away from the cutoff date, but may I pls. have the contact info? I'll do an electronic payment. TIA.

[winks1]

finally confirmed. ck is in da mail.
thanks again for the hard work roger12;)

[QTheNukes]

FYI, HD has a Bosch unit on sale for $1000 (obviously doesn't include installation)

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=739357&highlight=tankless

I bought the 2400ES - apparently a world of difference between it and the 2400E - not worth it at $1000.00. Old old model, many issues.

[Munchos]

I bought the 2400ES - apparently a world of difference between it and the 2400E - not worth it at $1000.00. Old old model, many issues.

Bosch units are crap. Same as polaramo that HD sells as well.

[tihp]

Confirmed (sent you a PM roger)

[steinberg]

Deposit paid on 5/22.

[vr6man25]

Hey guys
just got the install done

everything went great.
9am- about 4:30pm and we stopped for lunch;)

Here are some photo's
one thing i told them to not do was cut the old pipe of the water tank vent.

i will cut it later and patch it up.

before
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7096/img3580a.jpg








gas pipe
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3416/img3600pdi.jpg
outside
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8245/img3597u.jpg

I will move/return the water tank myself back to Direct Energy later

AGAIN THANKS ROGER FOR ALL YOUR HELP IN ORGANIZING THIS GROUP BUY.

[mistry?]

just another quick question? what model units are these that he is installing? are they the rennai units? i've been looking around for a tankless unit and this price is to good to give up, been quoted 2600 and up so far from about 4 ppl that ive gotten estimates from

[geographygeek]

Please let me know if I can get in on this deal. I just discovered this forum today!

Thanks!

Laura

[old_type]

so what's the process/procedure now???

since we've passed the deadline etc

[roger12]

so what's the process/procedure now???
since we've passed the deadline etc

As I posted before, contractor asked people who paid the deposit to email him their preferred installation date/time

Please let me know if I can get in on this deal. I just discovered this forum today!
Thanks!
Laura

Contractor said you can get on this deal for extra $125 ($2224)

just another quick question? what model units are these that he is installing? are they the rennai units? i've been looking around for a tankless unit and this price is to good to give up, been quoted 2600 and up so far from about 4 ppl that ive gotten estimates from

It is Rinnai 7.5GPM unit, please read my other posts for all the details.

[Zozon]

roger12, I am interested as well. Please let me know if possible to get the deal,
even with $125 extra. Next step ?
Thanks.

[t0pclass]

Roger12, I also interested in.
Please PM me the contractor's info, I need a consultation.

Thx

[zzricezz]

I just bought an inventory home that the builder already put in a rental water tank. Since paid for the installation, is it even worth it for me to make the switch now? I need to check if I'm locked into a contractor or not as well.

[geographygeek]

thanks Roger12 for the information. I found another contractor who will match the price without the extra $125 so I'll probably just go with them instead.

[roger12]

roger12, I am interested as well. Please let me know if possible to get the deal,
even with $125 extra. Next step ?
Thanks.
PMed info to you. Please post CONFIRMED and pay deposit once you are satisfied.

Roger12, I also interested in.
Please PM me the contractor's info, I need a consultation.
Thx

PMed.

[habwa]

Confirmed. I posted before, but it didn't go through (I assume due to the first post screening process). I waited for my post to show up, but it never did. Anyway, I gave my deposit in person on the 19th.

[Zozon]

Confirmed, cheque in the mail.

[sundew]

You're thinking about replacing your old water heater tank. Is it time to go tankless?

There's an endless supply of hot water, suppliers claim, since you only heat water when you turn your faucet on.

You can save room in your basement with a wall-mounted tankless unit and save money on your gas bill.

Kevin Kennedy installed a tankless water heater last fall after doing an energy audit of his four-year-old house. He's not impressed so far.

"It hasn't lived up to the hype I read in the papers, nor the sales pitch from the contractor," he told me. "The only savings have been the rental fees on the tank we removed."

A tankless water heater needs extra maintenance, he found. It has to be serviced once a year with a vinegar solution to keep it clean and functioning properly.

"Estimated cost is $100 a year – more than the gas savings."

He had to remove his water-saving shower heads, since there wasn't a strong enough flow to keep the water heater on.

"I now waste more water waiting for the hot water to arrive. It takes 10 to 15 seconds every time you turn on the tap for the hot water to get up to temperature – and up to a minute with the tap on full for the hot water to arrive on the second floor."

Reliance Home Comfort (formerly owned by Union Gas) tests tankless systems in its labs to simulate the water use of a typical family.

It finds you can save about 15 per cent of the energy previously consumed by the hot water tank.

A family of four with a 50-gallon tank spends $30 a month to heat water, says John Krill, director of operations support.

A 15 per cent gas saving means an extra $4.50 a month, or $54 a year.

That's not a big deal – and Krill agrees with Kennedy that the gas saving is often eaten up by the cost of extra water use.

"Many households take longer showers. From 10 minutes, they go to 12 minutes, knowing they won't run out of water. So, what happens to the savings? Zero."

You save energy only when you keep your hot water use the same as before, he emphasizes.

You may be disappointed with what you get when you need a trickle of water – say, to clean a razor blade while shaving. The cold water has to flow through the tankless unit and kick on a heating mechanism. This can take a while.

"Tankless systems won't give you the same hot water in a low-flow scenario as what you get from a storage tank," Krill says.

Second, there's the peak flow scenario when you want an endless flow of hot water. Again, you may be disappointed. A hot water tank uses about 40,000 BTUs of energy (British thermal units) but a tankless unit uses five times that, or 200,000 BTUs. "It fires up the burners and pounds the cold water to raise the temperature to 120 degrees Fahrenheit," he says.

The municipal water temperature is about 70F in summer, but can drop as low as 40F in winter.

The tankless unit has to work harder to heat water from 40F to 120F. This means your endless supply can run out in the cooler months.

So, scale back your expectations in winter. Instead of two showers and doing dishes at the same time, do the dishes later.

Next week we'll look closely at the cost of buying/renting a tankless water heater system.



eroseman@thestar.ca

[whodaphucru]

You're thinking about replacing your old water heater tank. Is it time to go tankless?

There's an endless supply of hot water, suppliers claim, since you only heat water when you turn your faucet on.

You can save room in your basement with a wall-mounted tankless unit and save money on your gas bill.

Kevin Kennedy installed a tankless water heater last fall after doing an energy audit of his four-year-old house. He's not impressed so far.

"It hasn't lived up to the hype I read in the papers, nor the sales pitch from the contractor," he told me. "The only savings have been the rental fees on the tank we removed."

A tankless water heater needs extra maintenance, he found. It has to be serviced once a year with a vinegar solution to keep it clean and functioning properly.

"Estimated cost is $100 a year – more than the gas savings."

He had to remove his water-saving shower heads, since there wasn't a strong enough flow to keep the water heater on.

"I now waste more water waiting for the hot water to arrive. It takes 10 to 15 seconds every time you turn on the tap for the hot water to get up to temperature – and up to a minute with the tap on full for the hot water to arrive on the second floor."

Reliance Home Comfort (formerly owned by Union Gas) tests tankless systems in its labs to simulate the water use of a typical family.

It finds you can save about 15 per cent of the energy previously consumed by the hot water tank.

A family of four with a 50-gallon tank spends $30 a month to heat water, says John Krill, director of operations support.

A 15 per cent gas saving means an extra $4.50 a month, or $54 a year.

That's not a big deal – and Krill agrees with Kennedy that the gas saving is often eaten up by the cost of extra water use.

"Many households take longer showers. From 10 minutes, they go to 12 minutes, knowing they won't run out of water. So, what happens to the savings? Zero."

You save energy only when you keep your hot water use the same as before, he emphasizes.

You may be disappointed with what you get when you need a trickle of water – say, to clean a razor blade while shaving. The cold water has to flow through the tankless unit and kick on a heating mechanism. This can take a while.

"Tankless systems won't give you the same hot water in a low-flow scenario as what you get from a storage tank," Krill says.

Second, there's the peak flow scenario when you want an endless flow of hot water. Again, you may be disappointed. A hot water tank uses about 40,000 BTUs of energy (British thermal units) but a tankless unit uses five times that, or 200,000 BTUs. "It fires up the burners and pounds the cold water to raise the temperature to 120 degrees Fahrenheit," he says.

The municipal water temperature is about 70F in summer, but can drop as low as 40F in winter.

The tankless unit has to work harder to heat water from 40F to 120F. This means your endless supply can run out in the cooler months.

So, scale back your expectations in winter. Instead of two showers and doing dishes at the same time, do the dishes later.

Next week we'll look closely at the cost of buying/renting a tankless water heater system.



eroseman@thestar.ca

She is an idiot, it is embarassing that the star lets her write for them!

[Heynow999]

vr6man25


Your installation looks dangerous. You are mounting basically a furnace on plastic. You need to have it mounted on fireproof material. I am sure this is not up to code. If your house burns down, your insurance will not cover you. I want to warn other people that you can not mount these like this. That plastic is very flammable. It is almost invisible when it burns so you don't notice until your whole wall is in flames. I bet if you go look at it, you will see the plastic has already melted. No joke, I am serious. Are there kids in the house.

I am not trying to be a pain in the ass, I just want to try and help.

Who did it?

[bririp]

Heynow999

Do your research before you make a post like this. These Rinnai units are 0 clearance to rear. There is no need to add any wood to the back before installing these units.

[asennad]

Somewhere on this forum I saw a link to a blog about purchasing a tankless water heater from a dealer in Buffalo and having it installed in Toronto and a list of rebates available. I can't find the post. Could someone please hook me up with that link again. Thanks.

[sundew]

She is an idiot, it is embarassing that the star lets her write for them!

Guys,
She may be an idiot.But can anyone prove her wrong on the numbers?There are a lot of smart guys on this particular thread who should be able to!!!!!

[roger12]

Sundew, as stated before, please do not use this thread for discussion about the usefulness of tankless. There are several discussion threads about tankless including one in hot deals section. Your comments makes it very difficult to find info directly related to group buy and I keep getting PMs with questions already answered in this thread.

Guys,
She may be an idiot.But can anyone prove her wrong on the numbers?There are a lot of smart guys on this particular thread who should be able to!!!!!

[sundew]

Sundew, as stated before, please do not use this thread for discussion about the usefulness of tankless. There are several discussion threads about tankless including one in hot deals section. Your comments makes it very difficult to find info directly related to group buy and I keep getting PMs with questions already answered in this thread.



Roger12 , Point taken.Should not have posted on this thread. Was just hoping that some smart guy would be able to convince all that the post was incorrect. Maybe the moderater would be able to take out the original post.Sorry

[Heynow999]

Heynow999

Do your research before you make a post like this. These Rinnai units are 0 clearance to rear. There is no need to add any wood to the back before installing these units.

Ok, I read the manual and it is zero clearance on the back. I don't know the building code that well, but I would think that vapour barrier should be covered with something to protect it.

I am only trying to be helpful.

It doesn't look right to me to be mounting something on vapour barrier. I do know that if you are mounting an electrical panel, it needs to be on a soild surface such as wood or drywall. I would think with a gas appliance there is even more concern

Who knows the building code?

[bririp]

How would drywall be any more sturdy/strong than 8" solid concrete?

This is a very safe way to mount these.

[Heynow999]

How would drywall be any more sturdy/strong than 8" solid concrete?

This is a very safe way to mount these.

Maybe I am not seeing things right but in the picture on page 17 I see a 180,000 btu Rianni tankless water heater that is mounted on bare vapour barrier which covers fiberglass insulation, which is covering who knows what. I had thought it was wood studs but I agree it could be covering 8 inches of concrete.

[roger12]

Maybe I am not seeing things right but in the picture on page 17 I see a 180,000 btu Rianni tankless water heater that is mounted on bare vapour barrier which covers fiberglass insulation, which is covering who knows what. I had thought it was wood studs but I agree it could be covering 8 inches of concrete.

Wood studs on outside basement wall :lol:

[slgta]

Zero clearance to the rear means the housing is not hot and it won't burn or melt anything (like the vapour barrier)?

Heynow999

Do your research before you make a post like this. These Rinnai units are 0 clearance to rear. There is no need to add any wood to the back before installing these units.

[bririp]

Correct...

Zero clearance refers to any combustible. There is no heat from the back.

[roger12]

Group buy members, please post pics when you get your installation done!

[lawlensw]

I live in Richmond Hill, ON and intersting in Tankless Water heater. Please advise how much of the cost with installation.

Thanks in advance. 8)

[roger12]

Previous group buy is FINISHED now but lot more people have expressed interest. Contractor said if 10 more people are interested, he can do another GROUP BUY. POST CONFIRMED AND PAY DEPOSIT to be included. READ THROUGH MY POSTS, DONT ASK QUESTIONS WHICH HAVE ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED.

I live in Richmond Hill, ON and intersting in Tankless Water heater. Please advise how much of the cost with installation.

Thanks in advance. 8)

PMed info to you...

[old_type]

was planning to post before/after photos today

but contractor cancelled on me last min...missing part???

anyways...took a day off for nothing now...

will post when i get it rescheduled


meant to say, broken part and cancellation email was sent last night at 8, not really last min like this morning

[roger12]

Contractor's main installer did my installation yesterday, he was very knowledgeable & friendly. Installation took 4 hours mainly because some plumbing leaks were hard to fix. They promised to come back if I find any leaks later.

After the installation, contractor emailed me the invoice and told me to register on Rinnai website. He even agreed to cover $10 for broken humidifier pin. Overall 10+ experience so far.

Few weeks back contractor requested pictures of the installation site and we finalized the exact location for install. He was quick to respond to all questions.

Would definitely go with him again for A/C and furnace if there is a group buy.

[roger12]

I got my energy audit done by a fellow RFDer 2 days back. He is Certified Eco-energy Adviser and works for Homestar heating & AC.

He was very detailed, knowledgeable and courteous. It took him 1 hour to conduct the inside and outside audit because my house is fairly new. The pressure test using blower was well worth because it showed exact spots of air leaks. He offered several tips to plug those leaks.

Then we spent about 1 hour talking about all the different rebate options available and which options provide the best return on investment. He will email the detailed audit report in 2 weeks (I will post a review on quality of report when I get it).

This audit cost $300+GST and I will get back $150 from Ontario government (he filled out the rebate form).

The second audit will cost 150+GST and has to be done within 18 months.

He offered a group buy discount rate of 100+GST for second audit if 10 RFDers participate. Let me know if anyone is interested.

[Deal_seeker1]

Roger12,

Yes, I am interested. Please keep me posted.

Thanks.

[agiga]

Contractor's main installer did my installation yesterday, he was very knowledgeable & friendly. Installation took 4 hours mainly because some plumbing leaks were hard to fix. They promised to come back if I find any leaks later.

After the installation, contractor emailed me the invoice and told me to register on Rinnai website. He even agreed to cover $10 for broken humidifier pin. Overall 10+ experience so far.

Few weeks back contractor requested pictures of the installation site and we finalized the exact location for install. He was quick to respond to all questions.

Would definitely go with him again for A/C and furnace if there is a group buy.

Great to hear! I'm getting mine installed this week. How has the experience been so far with the unit? Have you tested out its capacity yet? Any issues with temp or pressure?

[roger12]

Great to hear! I'm getting mine installed this week. How has the experience been so far with the unit? Have you tested out its capacity yet? Any issues with temp or pressure?

I havent tested the limit yet but temp and pressure are good on all 3 levels of the house.

Couple of months I read a post which suggested that it is best to set the temp of tankless to the temp at which you take shower. This means not mixing the hot and cold water during shower. This brings out the best performance and energy savings from tankless. I will try this out...

[valegal]

He offered a group buy discount rate of 100+GST for second audit if 10 RFDers participate. Let me know if anyone is interested.
I'm interested if the second audit can be done next month.

[roger12]

A lot of people have PMed me if they can participate in group buy if first audit is already done. I asked the auditor and he said both audits need to be done by same auditor. (Edit: Heynow999 pointed out that it can be different auditors but same company. As I mentioned above, my auditor worked for Homestar Heating & AC)

I'm interested if the second audit can be done next month.

[Heynow999]

my audits were done by the same company, but different auditors

[Genblue]

I've already had my first audit done but if I scrap it and have another audit done by Homestar, will the government give me another $150 back for the audit?

[jupitermoon]

First of all, a BIG THANKS to OP for his time and effort in organizing this group buy, RFD spirit at its best!

I am looking to replace my water tank in the very near future (just had my energy audit done) so am kind of late to the party but would be very interested in the 2nd group buy.

question to Roger, can you maybe summarize all the pertinent info on your opening page? I am still reading through all the pages but as the thread is already quite large (and is probably getting larger) it gets difficult to filter out critical information (post # helps but finding those posts not so easy).

Also please PM me the contractor's info.

Note: for those interested in this, keep in mind the Enbridge rebate expires end of August.

[Styx555]

Had the install done yesterday in Ottawa. Guys were fantastic. Very professional and quick. I would highly reccomend them. will post pictures shortly.

Thanks to Roger12 for a great job in organizing this!

[skanji]

Had the install done yesterday in Ottawa. Guys were fantastic. Very professional and quick. I would highly reccomend them. will post pictures shortly.

Thanks to Roger12 for a great job in organizing this!

+1 - takes about 15 seconds to get hot water to the kitchen after the hot water bring 'off', but other than that, fantastic installers.

Thinking of getting it done for 2 more houses down here.

Roger12 - cheers!

[rajchakra]

Thanks Rogers for showing us power of group buy.
Two person from contractor came and installed the machine.So far I am happy with the machine.
I have one question:
What temparature you put in as default in tankless now in Summer and in winter?
Is there any ideal temperature where you can get max benefit in terms of energy conservation & cold water sandwitch?
Thanks in advance...

[segal]

Previous group buy is FINISHED now but lot more people have expressed interest. Contractor said if 10 more people are interested, he can do another GROUP BUY. POST CONFIRMED AND PAY DEPOSIT to be included. READ THROUGH MY POSTS, DONT ASK QUESTIONS WHICH HAVE ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED.



PMed info to you...

Hi,

Is there a Group buy II happening? If so, I am interested.
What is the price now, same as before $2099 + gst or else?

Thanks

[rdx]

Hi,

Is there a Group buy II happening? If so, I am interested.
What is the price now, same as before $2099 + gst or else?

Thanks

Yes, I am interested too if there ia group buy II. :)

[roger12]

Group buy for energy audit is on.

BTW my energy auditor said Enbridge is running out of funds for 300 rebate, so probably it won't last until end of august.

[segal]

Price for second tankless group buy is 2350 + gst. Post confirmed and pay deposit if interested. All details are in my posts in this thread.

Group buy for energy audit is also on.

BTW my energy auditor said Enbridge is running out of funds for 300 rebate, so probably it won't last until end of august.


Wow, that's more than an increase of over $250 compared to the first one...

[old_type]

im still waiting to have mine installed, hopefully will get it done this saturday

will post before/after shots once available...

[roger12]

Contractor has agreed to do another group buy which ends July 8. The cost is $2269 + gst including basic installation and everything else is same as first group buy. Post CONFIRMED, deposit of 30% will be due once minimum of 5 members confirm.

[navaz]

Had ours installed Thursday. Was very happy with everything and even going to get the contractor to put in a new humidifier for me in the not to distant future.

[cordio]

Contractor has agreed to do another group buy which ends July 8. The cost is $2269 + gst including basic installation and everything else is same as first group buy. Post CONFIRMED, deposit of 30% will be due once minimum of 5 members confirm.

I'm interested in the second group buy as well as the group buy for the audit, can you send me info for both contractors?

[426Hemi]

Is it too late to get in on the home energy audit?

[roger12]

PMed auditor info to you. Energy audit is ongoing since we have up to 18 months to get post audit done.

Is it too late to get in on the home energy audit?

[scuba2day]

Is the group buy for the Energy audit for the GTA only or Ottawa as well?

Thanks, Fred

[roger12]

I think it is GTA only but you can ask the auditor, PMed his info to you.

Is the group buy for the Energy audit for the GTA only or Ottawa as well?

Thanks, Fred

[PMit]

Tankless water heater CONFIRMED, deposit in the mail.

Thanks again OP!!

[roger12]

I've replied to all PMs.

- Tankless group buy 2 end on July 8 when contractor will place the order.
- Energy audit group buy continues

- I am trying to setup a Group Buy for OTA HDTV installation. Any contractors interested in participating?
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=759252

[rdx]

I've replied to all PMs.

- Tankless group buy 2 end on July 8 when contractor will place the order.
- Energy audit group buy continues

- I am trying to setup a Group Buy for OTA HDTV installation. Any contractors interested in participating?
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=759252

Hi, Roger, I am interested in tankless group buy 2 & energy audit. Please add me in. I will pm on you on the payment method. Thanks

[3ajs]

Confirmed and deposit paid.

Thanks again Roger12.

[segal]

I've replied to all PMs.

- Tankless group buy 2 end on July 8 when contractor will place the order.
- Energy audit group buy continues

- I am trying to setup a Group Buy for OTA HDTV installation. Any contractors interested in participating?
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=759252


Confirmed. I'm arranging deposit with contractor.

Thanks

[roger12]

First post updated with confirmed members, please let me know if I missed anyone.

Tankless water heater CONFIRMED, deposit in the mail.

Thanks again OP!!

Confirmed and deposit paid.

Thanks again Roger12.

Confirmed. I'm arranging deposit with contractor.

Thanks

[eliaspeter]

I am also interested in the July 8th Group by. Can some one post the Contractor and the Energy audit information ?
Regards
EP

[rdx]

Cheque delivered to the contractor, pending for installation :)

[erickf]

I'm a little late to the Group Buy party, but I got in touch with the contractor today to see if he'd consider Ottawa installations.

He's willing to do so if at least four people are interested.

If there are any takers, please post a reply with "Confirmed in Ottawa".

Thanks!

[3ajs]

Re: TWH group buy 2

Everyone who is interested, the contractor will place the order on Monday for the equipment. Confirm and get your deposits paid this weekend if you want to take advantage of this discounted rate. If you need information feel free to PM me.

[ratface]

Can someone send me the contact info for the energy audit group buy? I need to book something quickly because I want to start renovating!

TIA

[roger12]

Replied to all PMs.

Contractor said that only 3 people have paid deposit. He will be placing the order on Monday. He will extend the deadline until Monday at noon.

[old_type]

wanted to post this sooner, but had issues with my camera

http://www.sourimage.com/pictures/bc2eeedacb5e2e205fbbb9236b264a14.jpg (http://www.sourimage.com)Dress Up Games (http://www.playpink.com)

http://www.sourimage.com/pictures/dc819e4b8c909b539a764c4ca20f065a.jpg (http://www.sourimage.com)Dress Up Games (http://www.playpink.com)
anyways,

here are my before and after pics, as you can see, ive saved a TON of space after using the tankless

so far, im pretty happy, i mean, we have four people showering one after another and thats after doing the dishes...never runs out of hot water

it does take a little getting use to for the 5 - 10 second delay, but really...i will survive

anyways, is anyone interested and started a group buy for the "pump" required for maintenance? how are u guys planning to "vinegar" their new tankless systems?

[roger12]

anyways, is anyone interested and started a group buy for the "pump" required for maintenance? how are u guys planning to "vinegar" their new tankless systems?

Good idea, I am in. Can someone else work on this? :)

[roger12]

Group buy 2 ended yesterday.

For Group buy 3:

Ottawa Group buy:
Last day to get in: July 31st, 2009
Price $2299.99
Requirement: At least 4 people with deposits in (2 people already interested)


New GTA group buy:
Last day to get in: July 31st, 2009
Price $2299.99
Requirements: At least 6 people with deposits.

[eliaspeter]

Quick Question before going for the Circulation pump group by.
Have the install consist of bypass valves installed ?. This should have connectors that will allow you to flush the system. Is it part of the standard install ?

Regards
EP

[roger12]

Yes it is part of standard install. Replied to your PM as well.

All other outstanding PMs have also been answered.

Quick Question before going for the Circulation pump group by.
Have the install consist of bypass valves installed ?. This should have connectors that will allow you to flush the system. Is it part of the standard install ?

Regards
EP

[maddawg]

Group buy still on for the energy audit?

[roger12]

Yes, PMed info to you.

Group buy still on for the energy audit?

[poptart77]

Interested in Ottawa energy audit. Might also consider Tankless water heater depending on available rebates and overall savings versus current rental water heater tank that was installed 2 years ago.

[FernieBanff]

interested in the GTA energy audit, when will it end.

[poop_on_you]

I bought a resale home and my closing date is Aug 25.

Would I have time to do an energy audit, transfer utilities account, buy a tankless water heater, install it and mail in the rebate all in 5 business days?

[vsavulian]

Interested in the GTA instant water heater group buy. Can I still get in?

[oulisee]

Interested in tankless water heater.
However, I'm not sure whether one can be easily installed at my place. The furnace room does not have an exterior wall. Can I arrange for a visit first? Thanks!

[poop_on_you]

Why is the first group buy $2,099 and second group buy $2,299? The installation cost suddenly went up $200 in a matter of weeks?



Also,does anyone know the average number of days it takes to set up a new account with Enbridge?

I am taking possession of a resale home on August 25 or possibly earlier. The Enbridge offer ends on August 31. I called Enbridge and they say it could take up to 30 days from the legal closing date to get a new account number.

If I can make the Aug 31 deadline, I will definitely be doing the Energy Audit group buy and the Tankless group buy.

[roger12]

Group buy for tankless is now over. For energy audit group buy you may PM me.