Help Building a File Server for a 1st Timer

[mikelaevens]

Hello Everyone

I am a first time poster and a first time server builder so sorry if I sound a little green.

So here is my situation: I am running 3 x 1 TB external HD's to my macbook (running plex) which is hooked up to my TV. I am running out of space and decided the best way to go would be to build a file server and run it to my macbook with the intention of expanding to other media computers in the future.

Here are my needs:
- 8 x 1 TB hard drives in a RAID 5 array
- something decently quiet
- hopefully spend less than 1200 dollars before hard drives
- as power-friendly as I can get

As I have never built a server and don't know much about them, I was wondering if people here could give me some advice. I'll try to explain what I think I need and hopefully you can correct me if I am way off.

So I will need:
1. a case with 8 x 3.5" bays (maybe something like this: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021 )
2. a raid controller
3. a motherboard
4. A processor (nothing fancy - like 2 GHZ duo core?)
5. about 2 GB RAM
6. Power supply
7. Some sort of server software
8. a PCI Gigabit Adapter to run files over ethernet to my media computer

Now can someone explain what sort of motherboard, gigabit adapter, and RAID controller I would need as that is the most confusing part for me. Please be as specific as you can.

Also, what sort of software do you recommend? I will just be running files over ethernet to my computer so I don't need anything fancy. I have never used Linux so I don't know if that would be the best option for me.

Lastly, if I am running 8 TB drives, what would you recommend for a power supply. Is 500 W enough?

Thank You

[sexyj]

have you thought about getting something like this to add to your existing setup instead ?

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816111071

[pitz]

So here is my situation: I am running 3 x 1 TB external HD's to my macbook (running plex) which is hooked up to my TV. I am running out of space and decided the best way to go would be to build a file server and run it to my macbook with the intention of expanding to other media computers in the future.

Here are my needs:
- 8 x 1 TB hard drives in a RAID 5 array
- something decently quiet
- hopefully spend less than 1200 dollars before hard drives
- as power-friendly as I can get


1.5Tb drives are where its at these days.

Personally, I'd do it under Linux. Configure your 7 or 8 drives each with a ~20gb boot partition, and then the rest as a RAID-5 volume.

Run mkraid, and configure the following:

A 8-drive RAID-1 for your boot partition;
A 8-drive RAID-5 for your data partition.

Hook this all up to one of those motherboards with 8 SATA positions.


1. a case with 8 x 3.5" bays (maybe something like this: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021 )


Personally I'd highly suggest that you get something like those 5 drives in 3 5.25" bay units, a pair of them, instead of individual drive bays...


2. a raid controller


Not really necessary if you get a motherboard with enough SATA ports. The newer Intel motherboards come with 6 or 8, which should be good enough. Its much cheaper to upgrade a CPU or upgrade a motherboard, than to switch out to a new proprietary RAID solution.


3. a motherboard
4. A processor (nothing fancy - like 2 GHZ duo core?)
5. about 2 GB RAM
6. Power supply
7. Some sort of server software
8. a PCI Gigabit Adapter to run files over ethernet to my media computer


Your favourite flavour of Linux can be downloaded, and most motherboards these days have embedded ethernet.


Also, what sort of software do you recommend? I will just be running files over ethernet to my computer so I don't need anything fancy. I have never used Linux so I don't know if that would be the best option for me.


What else did you have in mind? I know I'm light on details, but I'm a real big fan of doing this all as software, instead of involving proprietary add-on RAID controllers to the mix. When you have the sheer power of a dualcore or quadcore Intel (or AMD CPU) working for you -- that's definitely much faster than what typically would be used on a plug-in RAID card (unless it costs couple thousand bucks). MHz for MHz, cycle for cycle, the cheapest way of doing the computationally-intensive XOR calculations of RAID-5 is through the CPU on your own motherboard.

[Gee]

I suggest you go with a FreeNAS setup. That is what I use.

I have just upgraded all my drives to the Western Digital 2 Terabyte drives.

ThermalTake M9 case holds 9 drives, make sure you get the iCage for cooling. The case comes with 1 iCage, you can get the other two for about $20 each

The best part about FreeNAS, it boots from a USB thumb drive, it runs FreeBSD, if you are a Mac user, you will appreciate that. It only requires 512 Meg RAM no more. the Thumb drive doesn't need to be bigger than 64 Meg

I do recommend going with a hardware RAID instead of software. It is considerably faster and more reliable. Go with your prefered controller.

I have 8 drives in my setup, no RAID. Total storage is 13.5 Terabytes. My second NAS is 6 Terabytes

[nobb]

What OS are you planning on running? You could look into Windows Home Server, then you can get data redundancy features (through duplication) and not have to deal with RAID. This is probably the best home server software currently, in my opinion.

[fitbrit]

unRAID FTW (http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=553514)

Numerous people from RFD have made one now, and almost all seem happy. Cheap to make, safer than a RAID 5, quickly expandable... and above all, easy to set up!

[mikelaevens]

Thank you for all the help so far.

So for the OS, I am leaning towards something like unRAID. I had read about it before and it seems like it would be the best option. Has anyone else had any problems with it? I don't know if Linux would be the way to go for me as I have never used it and have heard the learning curve is out of this world.

So if I am running a software RAID, I don't need a RAID controller. So for the motherboard I thought I would go with something like this ( http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=34003 ). It has 8 SATA slots and 2 gigabit ethernet ports and probably a lot faster than I need, but it looks like it would be awesome.

What CPU do you think would be good for me?

Like pitz suggested, I think I will go with 1.5 TB drives, the WD Caviar Green, to be specific.

For a case, can I mount a 3.5 drive in a 5.25 slot? Do I need some sort of adapter? So let's say I want to have 4 drives to start at 1.5 TB with the intention to expand to 6 in the next year or 2, what specific cases do you guys recommend.

One last noob question, when I buy everything from a place like newegg or NCIX will it come with all the accessories like Sata cables and anything else I might need. Are the 2 aforementioned stores the best place to buy?


Thanks

[fitbrit]

The thing you should be worried least about is the Linux - it's totally transparent for setting up unRAID. I use many 1 TB WD Green drives, but I made my parity drive something faster - a Samsung 1 TB. I also have a few 750 GB drives which I'll be replacing gradually, probably with 1.5 or 2 TB drives.

As for CPU, get the lowest power CPU that's compatible with the mobo. New versions of unRAID support dual core CPUs, so I'd get the cheapest, lowest power consuming one possible. I use a 1.6 GHz Celeron 420 (single core) and am very hppy with my unRAID box.

Thank you for all the help so far.

So for the OS, I am leaning towards something like unRAID. I had read about it before and it seems like it would be the best option. Has anyone else had any problems with it? I don't know if Linux would be the way to go for me as I have never used it and have heard the learning curve is out of this world.

So if I am running a software RAID, I don't need a RAID controller. So for the motherboard I thought I would go with something like this ( http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=34003 ). It has 8 SATA slots and 2 gigabit ethernet ports and probably a lot faster than I need, but it looks like it would be awesome.

What CPU do you think would be good for me?

Like pitz suggested, I think I will go with 1.5 TB drives, the WD Caviar Green, to be specific.

For a case, can I mount a 3.5 drive in a 5.25 slot? Do I need some sort of adapter? So let's say I want to have 4 drives to start at 1.5 TB with the intention to expand to 6 in the next year or 2, what specific cases do you guys recommend.

One last noob question, when I buy everything from a place like newegg or NCIX will it come with all the accessories like Sata cables and anything else I might need. Are the 2 aforementioned stores the best place to buy?


Thanks

[bcbgboy13]

...I use many 1 TB WD Green drives, but I made my parity drive something faster - a Samsung 1 TB.

Have you run any SMART monitoring tools on your unRAID?
What are the numbers for "Load / Unload Cycle" for them.

Some users are experiencing extremely high numbers after only 6 to 10 months of use. I could not find any info if this is affecting unRAID. Your first hand experience will be more than welcome.

[fitbrit]

Have you run any SMART monitoring tools on your unRAID?
What are the numbers for "Load / Unload Cycle" for them.

Some users are experiencing extremely high numbers after only 6 to 10 months of use. I could not find any info if this is affecting unRAID. Your first hand experience will be more than welcome.

I haven't done any monitoring like that, I'm afraid. I think deep might be the RFDer to contact about this one.

[magical]

Thank you for all the help so far.

So for the OS, I am leaning towards something like unRAID. I had read about it before and it seems like it would be the best option. Has anyone else had any problems with it? I don't know if Linux would be the way to go for me as I have never used it and have heard the learning curve is out of this world.

So if I am running a software RAID, I don't need a RAID controller. So for the motherboard I thought I would go with something like this ( http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=34003 ). It has 8 SATA slots and 2 gigabit ethernet ports and probably a lot faster than I need, but it looks like it would be awesome.

What CPU do you think would be good for me?

Like pitz suggested, I think I will go with 1.5 TB drives, the WD Caviar Green, to be specific.

For a case, can I mount a 3.5 drive in a 5.25 slot? Do I need some sort of adapter? So let's say I want to have 4 drives to start at 1.5 TB with the intention to expand to 6 in the next year or 2, what specific cases do you guys recommend.

One last noob question, when I buy everything from a place like newegg or NCIX will it come with all the accessories like Sata cables and anything else I might need. Are the 2 aforementioned stores the best place to buy?


Thanks

Good idea to go western digital. seagate drives are awful right now, just make sure you enable 'wdtler' with yer drive... do a google search or look for my post.

[mikelaevens]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I have learned a lot in the last couple of days.

I think I have finally designed a fairly decent system and looked at all the small stuff that could go wrong.

1. Case - $80.99
( http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119152 )
Cooler Master Centurion - It has a 4 to 3 Device Module already in it.
I am going to buy 1 more 4 to 3 Device Modules (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817993002 ) at $27.49 each so I can expand up to 8 drives in the future.

2. Motherboard - $168.99
( http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358 )
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard
It has 8 x SATA II inputs so it will suit me good for now. My big issue is that there is no onboard video. Will this be a problem? DO I need to get a video card if I just plan on running WHS?

3. CPU - $86.99
( http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116072 )
Intel Pentium E5200 Wolfdale 2.5 GHz 2 MB L2 Cache Duo Core 775 65W
This processor should suit the server just fine and it compatible with the motherboard.

4. RAM - $27.49 x 2
( http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231121 )
G.SKILL 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory
I think 4 GB will make the system fast for a long time. Reviews seem to be good for this RAM.

5. PSU - $119.99
( http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006#spec )
CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply
It has 8 SATA power supplies which is good for what I plan on expanding my system to. 750W should be good for my needs for a long while.

6. Extra Fans - 2 x $6.99
( http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16811998127 )
APEVIA CF12S 120mm Case Fan
Is this going to be enough cooling for my system if you count the 2 that are in the 4-to-3 Device Modules?

7. Hard Drives
a) Boot and OS Drive - $62.99
( http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136098 )
Western Digital Caviar SE WD3200AAJS 320GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
b) Storage Drives - $219.99 x 5
( http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136351 )
Western Digital Caviar Green WD15EADS 1.5TB 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
I am going to grab 5 drives at first and then expand it as needed.
I have a bunch of externals that I will back up onto and move off site.

8. OS - Windows Home Server
I decided to go with this over unRAID. I am familiar with WHS and have a free copy so it just seems logical.

I can't see any issues with this system, but can you guys take a look over things to see if there is any glaring problems? I am worried about the no video card thing, but I don't know if it's an issue.

Lastly, is there anywhere cheaper besides newegg.ca to buys parts in Canada? Would ebay be the route to go? NCIX? Please let me know your suggestions.

[Gee]

You will need a video card or the system will not POST. (Turn on)

[killoverme]

I assume you want to use all 8 drives ona single raid-5 array so you have 7TB (partitioned of course)

Motherboards using Raid-5 are usually software and therefore write/read speeds will be slow (i tried it once, horrible had to switch to raid 0 and 1 and lost 320gb because of that, but MUCH faster)

If your still going towards using the motherboard even if its software then make sure all the sata ports are connected together so you can make one array. My mobo had 8 ports but 2 different chipsets for sata so each took 4 sata ports so you couldnt raid all 8 only 4 and 4.

I would go hardware raid though, unraid seems cheaper though since you dont need to buy that raid card which costs a lot of money

[Gee]

Hardware RAID is superior in every way. If you lose your OS, or motherboard goes bad your RAID is going to be really hard to recover. With a hardware solution, you can move the card to another machine, reload the OS and you are good to go.

If the motherboard goes bad, you will need an identical motherboard or chipset just to get Windows to boot.

I still think FreeNAS is the best solution. I use it with a thumb drive and I don't give up any drives for the OS.

[nobb]

Have you run any SMART monitoring tools on your unRAID?
What are the numbers for "Load / Unload Cycle" for them.

Some users are experiencing extremely high numbers after only 6 to 10 months of use. I could not find any info if this is affecting unRAID. Your first hand experience will be more than welcome.

I believe with the new EADS series, they still have the excessive head parking problem. Except now when they unload, it is not recorded in SMART. I am pretty sure this problem is OS independent. I have a WD10EADS and can confirm that the heads unload WAY too much. More info here:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=51401&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=35ca4ab714199d80d7837174b3088a67

[fitbrit]

Lastly, is there anywhere cheaper besides newegg.ca to buys parts in Canada? Would ebay be the route to go? NCIX? Please let me know your suggestions.

I personally would go with NCIX - they're great if something goes wrong, or at least have been with me. You can always pricematch NewEgg and DirectCanada.com (among many others) as necessary to bring the final NCIX bill down.

[evanx]

I personally would go with NCIX - they're great if something goes wrong, or at least have been with me. You can always pricematch NewEgg and DirectCanada.com (among many others) as necessary to bring the final NCIX bill down.

+1 for NCIX

[fitbrit]

+1 for NCIX

Also if you're not in a huge hurry you can wait until they have a shipping charge sale, e.g. $5.99 ground shipping on your whole order if you spend over $250. If you're making a big order, do check their weekly sales to see which items give you free shipping on the entire order, or discounted shipping on the entire order. The shipping cost of a big order may actually make it worth buying an item to get a shipping deal... plus you get that item too of course.

This week's sale only has free shipping offers on some big-ticket items, but that's not always the case.

[mikelaevens]

So I think I have decided to go back to the unRAID route. This way I can forego the OS drive.

Also, I think I am going to switch to this mobo ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128342 ).
It has an onboard video card, is cheaper and likely fits my needs.

Also, this week's sale at NCIX, is it not 5.99 shipping on an order over 100 dollars, but less than 200 lbs? IS this still just on certain items?

[fitbrit]

So I think I have decided to go back to the unRAID route. This way I can forego the OS drive.

Also, I think I am going to switch to this mobo ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128342 ).
It has an onboard video card, is cheaper and likely fits my needs.

Also, this week's sale at NCIX, is it not 5.99 shipping on an order over 100 dollars, but less than 200 lbs? IS this still just on certain items?

Glad you're back on the unRAID path... and you're absolutely right about the sale's shipping terms! It's a lucky week for you! :)

[hades]

So I think I have decided to go back to the unRAID route. This way I can forego the OS drive.

Also, I think I am going to switch to this mobo ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128342 ).
It has an onboard video card, is cheaper and likely fits my needs.

Also, this week's sale at NCIX, is it not 5.99 shipping on an order over 100 dollars, but less than 200 lbs? IS this still just on certain items?

Try UnRAID, it works. The best thing about it is that you can mix/match HDs of any size. I currently have 1x750, 2x1000, 1x1500. I am just adding HDs as I can afford/need them. The machine I use I got for free from my parents, it's a 5 year old Athlon 2000 machine, and it works great. Just needed 2 SATA controllers (4 ports, 20$ each) and away I went.

You can't do that with a hardware RAID, and yes, you might be good for now, but what if you want to upgrade? You need to replace the entire RAID.

hades

[disordered]

Hardware RAID is superior in every way. If you lose your OS, or motherboard goes bad your RAID is going to be really hard to recover. With a hardware solution, you can move the card to another machine, reload the OS and you are good to go.

If the motherboard goes bad, you will need an identical motherboard or chipset just to get Windows to boot.

I still think FreeNAS is the best solution. I use it with a thumb drive and I don't give up any drives for the OS.

What happens if your hardware raid card dies? Unless you've bought an identical spare card, aren't you fubared?

[pitz]

What happens if your hardware raid card dies? Unless you've bought an identical spare card, aren't you fubared?

Yeah pretty much. And CPU's for motherboards are far cheaper than CPU's on RAID cards. None of the RAID cards, or even the expen$ive RAID cabinets sold by the major RAID vendors (EMC, NetApp, etc.) have processors that are as powerful as the quadcore Intels for $200.

And motherboards are motherboards -- as long as you stick to the (relatively) standard Intel chipsets, you can pretty much always boot the same kernel, or even a slightly modified kernel or boot disk on a newer motherboard, in some form or another. Can't do that with your hardware RAID board easily, unless you stockpile a spare.

And in terms of vendor support -- the linux md driver has a gazillion people working on it, using it, etc., on more hardware configurations than you can imagine. The proprietary hardware RAID cards have a somewhat more limited audience, and you're stuck with one vendor.

[mikelaevens]

SO I bought all my components and now just to play the waiting game. I will let everyone know how it goes with set up and post some pics.

Thanks