Wolfdale 4.7GHz on air! Why not?

[Deimos]

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7049.html

Unfortunately, I didn't get anywhere near there with little old E5200.. 1.5V was plenty too much and couldn't get 3.9Ghz stable.

But, whats point of clocking so high? Its not like games or 98% of things I do will benefit. Even at default 2.5Ghz, x264, bluray etc runs fine.

Some interesting things occured to me:
* slowest 65nm Core2 chips ran at ~1.8Ghz
* clock speed spread from slowest to fastest (1.8 to 2.93): about 163%

* slowest 45nm Core2 chips run at ~2.5Ghz
* clock speed spread from slowest to fastest (2.5 to 3.33): about 132%

(for reference, Pentium3 from 500 to 1000Mhz, clockspread 200%).

But, Intel price range from <$100 to nearly $1000 is still there as always.

What does this mean? There's never been a better time to buy!Even slowest 45nm CPU is plenty for most folks, and not far behind the fastest most expensive.. (note: not including quad & nehalem here for simplicity).

Looking at it from overclocker standpoint, 30% clockspeed bumps look like this:
1.80 GHz
2.33 GHz
3.00 GHz only ~650Mhz
3.95 Ghz
5.10 GHz now almost 1200Mhz for 30%

So, whats the point ? Not only do most programs NOT scale linearly with clockspeed (diminishing returns), and you also have memory, fsb, gpu etc bottlenecks, but you need vastly bigger clockspeed jumps to get some % improvement. Starting at 4Ghz you need almost twice clockspeed jump to get 30% improvement than when starting at 2.3Ghz. And, not even considering exponential power and vcore required to hit those huge clockspeeds. Bottomline, its not worth it trying to squeeze those last few drops of clockspeed.

So when your friend boasts running 4Ghz when all you can manage is 3.7Ghz, dont get upset you're missing a whole huge 300Mhz. Its actually less than 10%. Its not like the old days when you counted Pentium overclocks in 10's of Mhz.

[board123]

What does this mean? There's never been a better time to buy!
Actually, the best time to buy was summer 2008, when computer hardware prices, especially Intel CPUs, hit rock bottom. Today's prices are **** compared to 9-10 months ago. E8400 for over $200? Are you kidding me? Dell was selling it for $140.

The best price ever for E8400 (E0) was the last week of December, when that VoodooPC guy was liquidating them at $100 on Ebay. I need my 4.1 GHz to run the PCSX2 emulator smoothly with most games. Shadow of the Colossus will not run well with some crappy 3 GHz chip. It maxes my CPU and even then, there were still some minor slowdowns in a few areas.

[flyz]

Psh. 5.6GHz i7 with 8 threads is where it's at.
Link (http://www.madshrimps.be/vbulletin/f22/core-i7-975-d0-early-sample-overclocked-5-3ghz-62557/)

[mingyang]

Actually, the best time to buy was summer 2008, when computer hardware prices, especially Intel CPUs, hit rock bottom. Today's prices are **** compared to 9-10 months ago. E8400 for over $200? Are you kidding me? Dell was selling it for $140.

The best price ever for E8400 (E0) was the last week of December, when that VoodooPC guy was liquidating them at $100 on Ebay. I need my 4.1 GHz to run the PCSX2 emulator smoothly with most games. Shadow of the Colossus will not run well with some crappy 3 GHz chip. It maxes my CPU and even then, there were still some minor slowdowns in a few areas.


Just recently finished off my FFXII on my PC, managed to xfer my save from my ps2 on a USB drive. E6300@ 3.0Ghz, only lagged in towns.

[Seiphas]

Still trying to play Katamari Damacy with it. I've gotten it to run perfectly, at the great speed of 2fps.

Seriously though, I play Tales of the Abyss / FFX on it. Both run amazingly well. The great thing is being able to ramp up Anti Aliasing, and playing PS2 games without lots and lots of jaggies.

[B0000rt]

M E2180's been running at 3.4GHz (400x8.5 on a P35) since Oct 07 ;)

Btw, the slowest 65nm "Core2" is the E1200 (1.6GHz 512 L2) or the E2160 (1.6GHz 1024 L2)

And technically speaking your E5200 is a Pentium Dual-Core, as the above is a Celeron and Pentium Dual-Core respectively ;)
Actually, the best time to buy was summer 2008, when computer hardware prices, especially Intel CPUs, hit rock bottom. Today's prices are **** compared to 9-10 months ago. E8400 for over $200? Are you kidding me? Dell was selling it for $140.
That's more to do with the strength (or lack of strength of the Canadian) of the American dollar

[board123]

Just recently finished off my FFXII on my PC, managed to xfer my save from my ps2 on a USB drive. E6300@ 3.0Ghz, only lagged in towns.
I finished FF12 with a E6300 @ 3.2 GHz. FF12 is nowhere near as intensive as Shadow of the Colossus, or to a greater extent, Xenosaga I.

That's more to do with the strength (or lack of strength of the Canadian) of the American dollar
My argument still holds. Last summer was the best time due to our dollar. Right now you're paying a lot more during economic turmoil.

[Oversized Rooster]

Wow 4.7GHz is darn fast! The fastest I've achieved with a dual core Core 2 Duo chip was 4.2GHz and that was with a 65nm E6850 CPU. If I had an E8500 or E8600 I can certainly see 4.5GHz, maybe more. :cheesygri

[Deimos]

Wow 4.7GHz is darn fast! The fastest I've achieved with a dual core Core 2 Duo chip was 4.2GHz and that was with a 65nm E6850 CPU. If I had an E8500 or E8600 I can certainly see 4.5GHz, maybe more. :cheesygri

what kind of insane rig did you use to get 4.2Ghz out of a E6850???

board123, completely missed all those sales last year...
heck by the time I heard about the December one, literally everyone had E8400 but me.

And I guess it never occurred to me how much juice emulators require. But, considering the hardware they are emulating, its just a matter of code optimizations to VASTLY improve performance.

[Chocolinx]

I finished FF12 with a E6300 @ 3.2 GHz. FF12 is nowhere near as intensive as Shadow of the Colossus, or to a greater extent, Xenosaga I.


My argument still holds. Last summer was the best time due to our dollar. Right now you're paying a lot more during economic turmoil.

You guys play PS2 games on your PC? O.o It works 100%?

And higher clockspeeds even from 3.7 to 4.0 is a big difference to me! Encoding x264 stuff, that could mean the difference of 0.5fps or an extra 1fps, which then translates into hours less of encoding time :)

[board123]

And I guess it never occurred to me how much juice emulators require. But, considering the hardware they are emulating, its just a matter of code optimizations to VASTLY improve performance.
This is true to some extent. Another thing that really affects its performance is your hardware's capability. For example, the Graphic Synthesizer emulation runs much faster and more stable if you have DX10.

You guys play PS2 games on your PC? O.o It works 100%?

And higher clockspeeds even from 3.7 to 4.0 is a big difference to me! Encoding x264 stuff, that could mean the difference of 0.5fps or an extra 1fps, which then translates into hours less of encoding time :)
I built my original Core 2 system to play FFX, and that worked almost perfectly back then. The emulator is still being developed and it definitely doesn't work 100% for all games. Not even close.

[Deimos]

Too lazy to start another thread, and its already been discussed in forums like a million times:

CPU temperatures.

I dunno why some folks are obsessed that theirs are lower/higher or something wrong.. if it works it works - don't fiddle around or you will break it.

Intel has all the details:
http://intel.wingateweb.com/taiwan08/published/sessions/TPWS002/FA08%20IDF-Taipei_TPWS002_Nov_1006.pdf

long story short, diff programs show diff num. Some avg, some instantenous, some off because not updated, etc... as long as heatsink isn't boiling to the touch and whatever tool you use shows <70C you should be fine. Most processors are rated to 80-100C max, and even then they just throttle (ie run slower).

As for idle temps... dont even bother trying to compare to your friend's even if he has same CPU and heatsink. Since the CPU's are calibrated at the max, the lower the temperature the more inaccurate the reading.

just a friendly thought you should know...

[board123]

As long as it's not something ridiculous like 15 degrees, it's all good.

[Seiphas]

The emulator, PCSX2, is extremely buggy right now. However, there are quite a few games that work perfectly, assuming you have a ton of processing power to throw at it.

The best advantage to playing PS2 games on a computer is the fact that they actually look good. For example, with PCSX2, it's possible to render games at 1920x1200, with 16xAA. Pictures can't do it justice.

[Oversized Rooster]

what kind of insane rig did you use to get 4.2Ghz out of a E6850???

It wasn't even an insane rig! The CPU was simply "that" good. I had ordered on like day 1 of its release date from NCIX. I think even posted like the first OC results on RFD for that CPU model. I had used an Asus P5K Premium motherboard, a 2GB set of DDR2-1066 RAM and a Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme CPU cooler with a 1600rpm 120mm fan. That cooler still serves me today. :)

I know the "all time" records are all set either with water cooling or some sort of phase change but to be honest I find overclocking on air much more exciting. Why invest HUNDREDS of dollars into water cooling gear when these days with proper air cooling you can achieve 80-85% of the same OCing result?

[board123]

The emulator, PCSX2, is extremely buggy right now. However, there are quite a few games that work perfectly, assuming you have a ton of processing power to throw at it.

The best advantage to playing PS2 games on a computer is the fact that they actually look good. For example, with PCSX2, it's possible to render games at 1920x1200, with 16xAA. Pictures can't do it justice.
I'm playing Kingdom Hearts 2 and it looks amazing. It runs at full speed as well, free of major bugs. The only bug I can see is that shadows on the ground are messed up. This is an issue with some other games as well.

[flyz]

It wasn't even an insane rig! The CPU was simply "that" good. I had ordered on like day 1 of its release date from NCIX. I think even posted like the first OC results on RFD for that CPU model. I had used an Asus P5K Premium motherboard, a 2GB set of DDR2-1066 RAM and a Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme CPU cooler with a 1600rpm 120mm fan. That cooler still serves me today. :)

I know the "all time" records are all set either with water cooling or some sort of phase change but to be honest I find overclocking on air much more exciting. Why invest HUNDREDS of dollars into water cooling gear when these days with proper air cooling you can achieve 80-85% of the same OCing result?

Suicide runs are probably done with cascade or LN2. It's fun to see what the chips are capable of by throwing massive amounts of voltage at them :D

I've invested in my WC gear several years back when there weren't all these heatpiped coolers available on the market. I like the fact that it's modular and parts are easily upgradable, been using the same pump for several years (which reminds me, I'm due for a new one soon :() If I got into computers now though, I would definitely go with the air coolers.

Edit: Actually nevermind, I checked my invoices and the pump's only been running for 3 years straight and it's speced for 5 years MTBF

[B0000rt]

Suicide runs are probably done with cascade or LN2. It's fun to see what the chips are capable of by throwing massive amounts of voltage at them :D

I've invested in my WC gear several years back when there weren't all these heatpiped coolers available on the market. I like the fact that it's modular and parts are easily upgradable, been using the same pump for several years (which reminds me, I'm due for a new one soon :() If I got into computers now though, I would definitely go with the air coolers.

Edit: Actually nevermind, I checked my invoices and the pump's only been running for 3 years straight and it's speced for 5 years MTBF
You got into PCs when they had space heaters called Prescott? :D

I remember back in the 300a days when pelts started to get some love

[Chocolinx]

I'm playing Kingdom Hearts 2 and it looks amazing. It runs at full speed as well, free of major bugs. The only bug I can see is that shadows on the ground are messed up. This is an issue with some other games as well.

I tried running the new version today, and I'm having trouble with play FMVs in games like Kingdom Hearts and FFX and FFX-2. Like FMVs stutter like crazy but the game itself plays out fine. 60fps easy.

Q9450 @ 3.04Ghz
4GB Ram
HD4850

[Deimos]

You got into PCs when they had space heaters called Prescott? :D

I remember back in the 300a days when pelts started to get some love

Well I remember just a few years ago laughing at the poor saps buying those hot P4 with over 100W. Those "300" days really bring back memories. Heck, I vividly remember buying first aftermarket heatsink for an Athlon 800. Back then in 1999 I think, Intel pulled P3-1133 from market because of stability concerns, so my 800 was pretty darn fast. The heatsink - aluminum with about 30 4cm fins and 60mm fan. Todays chipsets have bigger heatsinks.

Well, after a short intermission, all it took was launch of quad cores to get us back to 100W range (CPU only). Heck AMD started coming out with different definitions like "typical" and "average" and still hitting 100-130W for almost ALL Phenom.

Intel isn't your saving grace here either:
Core 2 Extreme QX9775 SLANY (C0) 3200 MHz 2 × 6 MB 1600 MT/s 8x 1.212 V 150 W LGA 771 March 24, 2008[9] EU80574XL088N $1499
Corei7 much better at idle, but all still rated at 130W

For your amusement from wikipedia:
350nm 1997
PII 300 512 KiB 66 MT/s 4.5x 2.8 V 43W

250nm 1998
PII 450 512 KiB 100 MT/s 4.5x 2.0 V 27.1W
Celero300 0 KiB 66 MT/s 4.5x 2.0 V 18.4 W Slot1
Celer300A 128 KiB 66 MT/s 4.5x 2.0 V 19 W Socket 370

180nm 2000
PIII 1000B 256 KiB 133 MT/s 7.5x 1.7 V 26.1 W

PS: my memory must be really rusty, but they made a Celeron 300 with no cache?? WTF and people complaining E5200 only has 2MB LOL

[flyz]

You got into PCs when they had space heaters called Prescott? :D

I remember back in the 300a days when pelts started to get some love

Nope, I jumped into watercooling in my A64 build. My first real aftermarket cooler was an Alpha PAL8045 for an AXP 1700+.

[B0000rt]

PS: my memory must be really rusty, but they made a Celeron 300 with no cache?? WTF and people complaining E5200 only has 2MB LOL

Yep, 300 had no L2, and the 300a had the 128kb L2 that was full CPU clock. The P2s at the time had off die L2 cache, which was 512kb but only ran at half CPU clock...

I'm actually in the market for one of these 45nm chips too, need something low(er) power consumption for a HTPC, and no I'm not going Brisbane. Probably going to pick up a 7xxx series CPU....

[Deimos]

Yep, 300 had no L2, and the 300a had the 128kb L2 that was full CPU clock. The P2s at the time had off die L2 cache, which was 512kb but only ran at half CPU clock...

I'm actually in the market for one of these 45nm chips too, need something low(er) power consumption for a HTPC, and no I'm not going Brisbane. Probably going to pick up a 7xxx series CPU....

According to Wikipedia
The latest greatest Pentium-200 was 18W TDP

For ultra low power HTPC applications, ultra low power dual core 45nm Penryn:

Core 2 Duo SU9400 SLB5Q 1400 MHz 3 MB 800 MT/s 7x 1.050 - 1.150 V 10 W FCBGA6 September 2008 AV80577UG0093M $289

10W..and 7x the Mhz

[flyz]

According to Wikipedia
The latest greatest Pentium-200 was 18W TDP

For ultra low power HTPC applications, ultra low power dual core 45nm Penryn:

Core 2 Duo SU9400 SLB5Q 1400 MHz 3 MB 800 MT/s 7x 1.050 - 1.150 V 10 W FCBGA6 September 2008 AV80577UG0093M $289

10W..and 7x the Mhz

And the manufacturing process from 350nm to 45nm :)

[board123]

I'm actually in the market for one of these 45nm chips too, need something low(er) power consumption for a HTPC, and no I'm not going Brisbane. Probably going to pick up a 7xxx series CPU....
Wait for AMD's Q2/Q3 products ;)

You won't regret the wait.

[B0000rt]

Wait for AMD's Q2/Q3 products ;)

You won't regret the wait.
No time, I ain't waiting for AMD's shrink, I want things now.. I could though imagine a Brisbane at 45nm would be the power miser

[board123]

No time, I ain't waiting for AMD's shrink, I want things now.. I could though imagine a Brisbane at 45nm would be the power miser
Alright man, your loss. We're not talking Brisbane here.

[B0000rt]

Alright man, your loss. We're not talking Brisbane here.

Meh, I already have an extra 9300 IGP Socket 775 mobo sitting around collecting dust

[board123]

Meh, I already have an extra 9300 IGP Socket 775 mobo sitting around collecting dust
I could use one... I have a spare E6300 sitting around.

[B0000rt]

Snagged myself an E8400 for $136.. Too hard to pass up, I was gonna go for the E5300 for $50 but meh, I'm tired of buying 'value' cpus.

The question begs, how high can my P35 go? I know 400MHz is stable hopefully abit more than that should be fine.

It's a 9x right? Hmm I wonder if 444MHz will work.... In all probability it'll be an E0 chip.. hopefully

[board123]

I have mine at 456 with relatively low voltage compared to most people. I can definitely go higher (and I have before), but I don't feel like pumping in more voltage for diminishing returns. I like my temperatures right now.

Just start at 401 right off the bat. If that's not stable, then your chip is ****.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9340/e8400.png

[flyz]

I have mine at 456 with relatively low voltage compared to most people. I can definitely go higher (and I have before), but I don't feel like pumping in more voltage for diminishing returns. I like my temperatures right now.

Just start at 401 right off the bat. If that's not stable, then your chip is ****.


There might be FSB holes so don't discount the chip, especially on low multi runs.

[board123]

There might be FSB holes so don't discount the chip, especially on low multi runs.
FSB holes are pretty much never at 401. It's a pretty safe number.

[Sgt_Strider]

Actually, the best time to buy was summer 2008, when computer hardware prices, especially Intel CPUs, hit rock bottom. Today's prices are **** compared to 9-10 months ago. E8400 for over $200? Are you kidding me? Dell was selling it for $140.

The best price ever for E8400 (E0) was the last week of December, when that VoodooPC guy was liquidating them at $100 on Ebay. I need my 4.1 GHz to run the PCSX2 emulator smoothly with most games. Shadow of the Colossus will not run well with some crappy 3 GHz chip. It maxes my CPU and even then, there were still some minor slowdowns in a few areas.

I agree with you there, but I don't think the Dell price was offered last summer or else I wouldn't have been able to take advantage of it.

[board123]

I agree with you there, but I don't think the Dell price was offered last summer or else I wouldn't have been able to take advantage of it.
Trust me, it was. It was one of those Days of Deals.

Edit: my bad, it was in October, and it was $150. I remember now because my friend bought the 20" Ultrasharp on the same day.
http://www.geocities.com/emailmetodayokay/dell2008.html

[Sgt_Strider]

Trust me, it was. It was one of those Days of Deals.

Edit: my bad, it was in October, and it was $150. I remember now because my friend bought the 20" Ultrasharp on the same day.
http://www.geocities.com/emailmetodayokay/dell2008.html

lol dude! I told you that it wasn't in the summer! I know because I bought one in one of those Dell Days of Deals and that wasn't in the summer. I was in China in the summer and I recalled being at UBC at the time the E8400 was on sale for $150. Anyways, it was a good deal and I don't think we'll be seeing that for a long time.

[St00pid]

4.7GHz on air with that kinda voltage is horrible, even if it's a E8500. I've seen 4.7 on much lower voltage on better stepping/batch/whatev AND air cooling.

I have my E8600 @ 4.5GHz @ 1.36V 24/7 - TRUE 120.

[someguy91]

I think you underestimate the difference a higher multiplier can make...

edit: and binning

[B0000rt]

I think you underestimate the difference a higher multiplier can make...

edit: and binning
Yea, I doubt most people can easily get the Wolfdale-3M to 4GHz+ on air....

I should test out how fast my P35 can do fsb wise.. I think my Ram's gonna be the limiting factor at 800MHz :(


Edit: Dang, looks like 425, which gives me 850 on the memory.. Oh well, time to find me some 1066 :D

[flyz]

You'd be surprised what lengths people go to to find a golden chip. Many OC results you see are from going through many chips.
Higher end chips also go through binning resulting in E8600s having a better thermal envelop than E8400s...

[loybond]

I had an E8400 at 4.3, and then a Q9550 at 4.0. The Q was better IMO because it required like 1.27 v, pretty awesome. The E8400 needed like 1.40!

I'm looking at a new rig soon for FSX (higher clock speeds = better, 4.0 not necessarily enough), and I was wondering if the better i7s overclock better than the cheap one (920 is it?)? From what I've heard 4.0 is possible on all 920s, some get up to 4.2. Are there any that hit 4.5+?

[flyz]

I had an E8400 at 4.3, and then a Q9550 at 4.0. The Q was better IMO because it required like 1.27 v, pretty awesome. The E8400 needed like 1.40!

I'm looking at a new rig soon for FSX (higher clock speeds = better, 4.0 not necessarily enough), and I was wondering if the better i7s overclock better than the cheap one (920 is it?)? From what I've heard 4.0 is possible on all 920s, some get up to 4.2. Are there any that hit 4.5+?

It's doable with ~1.5V if you're lucky (C0), but you better be watercooling that chip :)
Not sure how high you could jack up a D0 chip tho.

[KonniXeoN]

Damn... 4.7GHZ?


My Q6600 wont even push past 2.7.. embarrassing. :mad:

[loybond]

Damn... 4.7GHZ?


My Q6600 wont even push past 2.7.. embarrassing. :mad:

Every Q6600 can do a lot more than that. You're probably limited by your stock CPU cooler or something.

[loybond]

It's doable with ~1.5V if you're lucky (C0), but you better be watercooling that chip :)
Not sure how high you could jack up a D0 chip tho.

So the 45nm Penryns and Yorkfields weren't really supposed to go over 1.38 or thereabouts, and I've done 1.5 on 65nm chips, but what's the i7 limit?

After a few watercooled setups, I've found that there isn't much difference (if at all) between good air cooling and water cooling. It has to get pretty extreme (and extremely expensive) to be better than air. A TRUE 120 black, MX-2, 2 Scythe S-Flex fans... better than 95% of water cooled setups.

[flyz]

So the 45nm Penryns and Yorkfields weren't really supposed to go over 1.38 or thereabouts, and I've done 1.5 on 65nm chips, but what's the i7 limit?

After a few watercooled setups, I've found that there isn't much difference (if at all) between good air cooling and water cooling. It has to get pretty extreme (and extremely expensive) to be better than air. A TRUE 120 black, MX-2, 2 Scythe S-Flex fans... better than 95% of water cooled setups.

Intel specs an i7 to run with a max of 1.55V. Air cooling has improved leaps and bounds with heatpipes, so I wouldn't consider watercooling now unless you're prepared to spend $300+ on the setup.

[B0000rt]

Finally got around to putting in the E8400... My P35 does 450MHz fsb, woot, dunno how this DDR2 800 does it, but it does..

http://i40.tinypic.com/t021ja.jpg

Didn't touch any settings in the bios cept for 2.1V for the ram, and 450FSB everything else set to auto... Running linpack right now

Set voltage to 1.35 and fsb to this:
http://i39.tinypic.com/2euqush.jpg
Running linpack again

[board123]

You should also run prime95. I was linpack stable but not prime95 stable. Weird, but it happened.

[B0000rt]

You should also run prime95. I was linpack stable but not prime95 stable. Weird, but it happened.
I was reading how one guy was running LinX for 38 times, then on the 39th time it failed on him, and it was repeatable too.. Hmm!

What are 'safe' voltages for 45nm E0 chips?

[board123]

I think up to 1.4 is pretty safe. It's usually not worth running an everyday voltage like that because if you need 1.4 for good clocks, then your chip is no good to begin with.

[B0000rt]

Cool thanks, I'm pretty happy with hitting even 4GHz with this DDR2 800 already so 4.3GHz is more than enough, I'll probably tone it down to stock voltages and see how high it can go with that.

[Deimos]

Anybody have links to FFX (that requires this 4Ghz+).

FSB holes are pretty much never at 401. It's a pretty safe number.

probably thinking of the infamous boot straps, which turned out to just be tRD (aka performance level) and sometimes few other timing parameters.

Also few BIOS out there have wrong PLL setting. And ofcourse ALL CPUS do have FSB wall... despite what a few hardcore deniers say at xtremesystems.

4.7GHz on air with that kinda voltage is horrible, even if it's a E8500. I've seen 4.7 on much lower voltage on better stepping/batch/whatev AND air cooling.

I have my E8600 @ 4.5GHz @ 1.36V 24/7 - TRUE 120.

Any 4.7GHz is great, whether its 1.4V or 1.5V, I'm quite sure there are THOUSANDS here which would take either one as they're not getting anywhere near there.

You'd be surprised what lengths people go to to find a golden chip. Many OC results you see are from going through many chips.
Higher end chips also go through binning resulting in E8600s having a better thermal envelop than E8400s...
Conservatively, at least 6 ships. Typically they (xtremesystems) buy 10+.

Dont quote me on this, but I recall that "hotter" chips, usually with lower VID to compensate, tend to OC higher. Something to do with higher doping and more leaky dielectric leading to higher static power and higher carrier mobility... or something like that. Often for folks on stock cooling seeing high temps and poor results, they think they have lemon, but under LN2 they're beasts.

[board123]

probably thinking of the infamous boot straps, which turned out to just be tRD (aka performance level) and sometimes few other timing parameters.

Also few BIOS out there have wrong PLL setting. And ofcourse ALL CPUS do have FSB wall... despite what a few hardcore deniers say at xtremesystems.
Yeah, I was referring to NB straps. Sometimes it might seem like you reach a FSB hole if you just increase it in increments, when really it's the strap that's holding you back. 401 ensures you're on the loosest strap if you put other settings on auto. Sure, you can manually adjust tRD, but that's another extra troubleshooting step.

[Deimos]

I was reading how one guy was running LinX for 38 times, then on the 39th time it failed on him, and it was repeatable too.. Hmm!

What are 'safe' voltages for 45nm E0 chips?

That depends. Different folks and companies have different idea of what is safe.

Intel's 45nm chips use lower voltage than AMD. Both have decreased voltage very little since 130nm

Pentium4
180nm 1.75V
130nm 1.475-1.525
90nm 1.25/1.4 Speedstep
65nm 1.2/1.325 Speedstep
Core2's are around 1.35 to 1.225.

In comparison, nVidia 65nm 8800GT is something like 1.1V. Soon 40nm chips with <1V probably, especially if they are bigger, to lower power consumption.

Personally, I would not recommend increasing voltage by more than about 10% (about 0.1-0.15V). Above that you get little extra clockspeed.
old skool 65nm with 1.35V default: 1.5V
new 45nm with 1.25V: 1.4V