CAW 'furious' at Ontario over pensions

[ferkel]

http://www.wheels.ca/reviews/article/530788

Those bastards hahahaha

http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/44/0e/082e383548868c5ea9b9887c531d.jpeg

'What good is a pension guaranteed fund if it's not there when you need it?'
Apr 09, 2009

Comments on this story (38)

Romina Maurino and Kristine Owram
THE CANADIAN PRESS

Visibly upset members of the Canadian Auto Workers said today that they are "furious" that the Ontario government has abandoned its responsibility to retirees by underfunding a provincial safety net for pension funds.

They were responding to Premier Dalton McGuinty's assertion that the province's pension safety net isn't even close to large enough to cover auto workers if General Motors goes bankrupt.

"To suggest that retirees will bear of the brunt of something they have no control over is just unconscionable," CAW president Ken Lewenza said at a press conference today.

"I can't even suggest to you how furious we are as an organization to suggest that our retirees won't be treated with decency and respect during this crisis. What good is a pension guaranteed fund if it's not there when you need it?"

[Rehan]

Yeah, this will certainly make the average tax-paying Canadian love the CAW even more... :rolleyes:

[Pete_Coach]

Yea, I am having some difficulty digging up sympathy for the CAW.
Where other car manufacturers were cutting costs, having difficulty in the market, the CAW wanted to go on strike for more money. Yup, priced their employer right out of business and want Ontarians to pay their pensions out. Hmmmm, difficult to feel for them.

[Vladimir]

wtf. So taxpayers, who probably a good portion of themselves won't be making pension and probably only make $15-20 an hour, have to pay pension to those workers who were making $30 an hour? Wow.
Cry me a river CAW

[Tomato_1]

Add me to the chorus of who gives a F*ck.

Yeah want me to work harder so your lazy SOB which drove your respective employers to the ground. NOw you want me to give you my hard earned money so you don't have to lift a finger. Go flips some burgers you over paid workers.


FYI: A great read on Saturn on how that model could've saved NA cars. http://www.newsweek.com/id/192458

[blakjak]

Boo hoo!

[bahasad]

Add me to the chorus of who gives a F*ck.

Yeah want me to work harder so your lazy SOB which drove your respective employers to the ground. NOw you want me to give you my hard earned money so you don't have to lift a finger. Go flips some burgers you over paid workers.




+ 1 and couldn't say better myself. Lazy, greedy bastards.

[MasterXan]

Ken Lewenza should retire just like Ron Middlefinger

[Jon Lai]

Did I just miss something on the news lately? So McGuinty did a good thing for once?

[ponti3800]

Did I just miss something on the news lately? So McGuinty did a good thing for once?

:cheesygri

What is wrong with CPP? Everybody else seems to happy with it. :lol:

[Engi-Nir]

Did I just miss something on the news lately? So McGuinty did a good thing for once?

it is called a re-election ploy of his probably

[najibs]

THe CAW's greed for refusing to cut back benefits and wages has finally caught up with them. I can only summarize their demise based on one word...GREED.

THey wanted more and more, for doing nothing, and finally now that the company is going under, it's too late. Boo hoo CAW. Cry me a river.

I realize not every person that's in the CAW is a bad person, and I feel bad for their families, but hey, they're where they are at because of greed. Sure it's not just the union to blame, it's the consumer underconfidence in their inferior product but for a good reason. The whole company was destined for failure, and they didn't change the path they were headed in. Not just the union. It was a series of events that lead to this. It's about time these companies go bankrupt, re-structure, in order to re-emerge witha new plana nd focus, and THAT is when success is more realistic.

[Ray]

Those CAW people are sure greedy. How about those people who are living off CPP and OAS only? I think they deserve better too. Maybe the retirees with no company pension can give up their government pensions so that the CAW workers can have the lifestyle they are used to.

[ivica5683]

Yea, I am having some difficulty digging up sympathy for the CAW.
Where other car manufacturers were cutting costs, having difficulty in the market, the CAW wanted to go on strike for more money. Yup, priced their employer right out of business and want Ontarians to pay their pensions out. Hmmmm, difficult to feel for them.


Sympathy!!!!!!!!, you won't get it here either. Wait some of the retirees will have difficulty paying bills.
My parents retired on CPP and OAS, never ate out in restaurants, never owned a cottage, lived a frugal life. They retired with no benefits, they learned to garden, grow their own vegetables. They are survivors. The CAW are a bunch of spoiled brats. Massive hourly wages, strikes, sit around reading the paper, ***** , ***** and complain and now life has caught up to them.
For those that never had it good it's easy since they don't have to adapt. For those that have had it and now won't, it will be tough.

Survivors, Let's see who are the real survivors. Let's see who is fit.
This is quite natural, evolution at it's finest all before our own eyes.

[look30]

Boo hoo!

I was about to say the same :)

How about our pensions ?!

[random1315]

http://media.canada.com/ff204c0a-f375-4bc5-91b0-f6cc14acdaa1/06-chryslerunveiling7.jpg

Bahahaha! All the ranting and raving in the world can't save you or your overpaid, lazy, greedy workers now, Kenny Boy!

[najibs]

THis is another clear example of how selfish the CAW/UAW are and is. Have they forgotten about the bailout that has kept their company afloat still? I think all us taxpayers should be 'furious' at the fact that the government has bailed out GM, and those billions from the first bailout will be gone to waste after bankruptcy is finally declared soon, and all we did was inject billions into a sinking ship that continued sinking and eventually sank anyways!

[thelefteyeguy]

reading the articles makes me want to puke...started working at 20 and retired at 53...worked only 33 years and has full pension for 17 years already...

you would think after 17 years of pension that he has lots of savings....



F the current working class :cry:

[MasterXan]

check out some old videos of the mayor of Lansing, Michigan going nuts on TV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ9i6L6fGsk

same mayor going against Dr. Doom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddUtu3y13vU (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT7Y0OQEVzk (part 2)

[help_questions]

Good to see that many people disagree with the CAW stance on this issue.
That said, those of you who read the article know they are planning a rally soon. This is the CAW lobbying the government, with the intention of pressuring the government from more $$$.

Those of us who believe that CAW is wrong NEED to write their MPP/MP/Premier/PM and express our opinion on this matter. We need to let them know as taxpayers we are concerned about all the funds already given to the failing auto sector, and that we find it unacceptable that our tax dollars are used to give people from a private company more that most of us have.

This is a GM issue, not a taxpayer problem.

I know people typically do not write letters to the government but this is important. I truly believe the majority of Canadians disagree with this, and if they voice themselves, have the power to pressure to government to leave all the auto sector issue to market forces.

A letter takes a few minutes to write, and can save our tax dollars from another unjust use.

[help_questions]

THis is another clear example of how selfish the CAW/UAW are and is. Have they forgotten about the bailout that has kept their company afloat still? I think all us taxpayers should be 'furious' at the fact that the government has bailed out GM, and those billions from the first bailout will be gone to waste after bankruptcy is finally declared soon, and all we did was inject billions into a sinking ship that continued sinking and eventually sank anyways!

Forget just being furious about it.....we need to do something to stop it. If we don't, CAW will bankrupt Canada.

EVERYONE - make sure you do your taxes now, while the government has money

[Frankie3s]

I'm still furious over the pieces of **** that I had bought from both GM and Chrysler in the past. Just this year the head gasket went on my dad's Chevy venture went.

[woobie]

Yeah let's blame the Union.

The Gov't allowed a loophole in pension funding that let Companies underfund their workers pension plans.

The Companies (I'm sure there's more than the big three) took advantage of this and underfunded their workers pensions.

The Gov't has a backup fund for pensions of companies that go bankrupt but doesn't make the companies contribute what they owe so it's underfunded too.

Now you have people who have worked for years for these companies finding out they are quite possibly SOL when it comes to their pensions plans, but hey **** them it's their fault.

You people do realize the the pension protection plan that covers the first $1000/month is for any worker that losses his pension due his former employer going under is for ANYONE who payed into a company pension plan and lost it, not just unionized workers?

[scouzer]

Yeah let's blame the Union.

The Gov't allowed a loophole in pension funding that let Companies underfund their workers pension plans.

The Companies (I'm sure there's more than the big three) took advantage of this and underfunded their workers pensions.

The Gov't has a backup fund for pensions of companies that go bankrupt but doesn't make the companies contribute what they owe so it's underfunded too.

Now you have people who have worked for years for these companies finding out they are quite possibly SOL when it comes to their pensions plans, but hey **** them it's their fault.

You people do realize the the pension protection plan that covers the first $1000/month is for any worker that losses his pension due his former employer going under is for ANYONE who payed into a company pension plan and lost it, not just unionized workers?

Forget about it. The internet is a blind mob hating on unions right now, any common sense arguments are fruitless.

The CAW has a right to be angry, and I'm glad they are.

[lordzod]

wtf. So taxpayers, who probably a good portion of themselves won't be making pension and probably only make $15-20 an hour, have to pay pension to those workers who were making $30 an hour? Wow.
Cry me a river caw

+1

[Arcaneind]

We can't blame just one group for this mess.

GM/Chrysler are the main problem. They have been running on broken business models since the 1970's by trying to get top dollar for inferior products. Follow that with conceeding to unrealistic demands and structures from the unions that they simply cannot afford.

The Gov'ts are to blame for making huge tax concessions, the pension loop-hole problem and not letting bankruptcy take place before the first bail-out.

The UAW & CAW are to blame for conceit and greed. Listen to the news and all you hear them say is how great there products are; the problem is that the consumer isn't stupid and has to make that decision themselves. I think you cannot blame them for asking for something that the "Big 3" are stupid enough to give them. You can blame them for creating huge operating costs through basically organized fraud (like planned abuse of sick days so that the plant has to schedule overtime to meet quotas).

I agree with the Dean of Economics from Harvard - Their only hope is bankruptcy.

[Pete_Coach]

Yeah let's blame the Union.

The Gov't allowed a loophole in pension funding that let Companies underfund their workers pension plans.

The Companies (I'm sure there's more than the big three) took advantage of this and underfunded their workers pensions.

The Gov't has a backup fund for pensions of companies that go bankrupt but doesn't make the companies contribute what they owe so it's underfunded too.

Now you have people who have worked for years for these companies finding out they are quite possibly SOL when it comes to their pensions plans, but hey **** them it's their fault.

You people do realize the the pension protection plan that covers the first $1000/month is for any worker that losses his pension due his former employer going under is for ANYONE who payed into a company pension plan and lost it, not just unionized workers?

Forget about it. The internet is a blind mob hating on unions right now, any common sense arguments are fruitless.
The CAW has a right to be angry, and I'm glad they are.

No one is angry with the CAW that they are going to get something that everyone in the Province is illegible for, they are angry that the CAW is pissed at the Ontario Government for not paying their entire pension out. The CAW wants it all, thinks it has a right to it all and, is insulted because someone is talking back to them.
Really, it is time after all these years of holding the companies hostage, that the tide has turned. The CAW is now worried that it cannot get what it wants. A spoiled child finally being told no.
Don't accuse people of being a blind mob, perhaps some people can see beyond the CAW rhetoric and are not blindfolded by the union.

[scouzer]

No one is angry with the CAW that they are going to get something that everyone in the Province is illegible for, they are angry that the CAW is pissed at the Ontario Government for not paying their entire pension out. The CAW wants it all, thinks it has a right to it all and, is insulted because someone is talking back to them.
Really, it is time after all these years of holding the companies hostage, that the tide has turned. The CAW is now worried that it cannot get what it wants. A spoiled child finally being told no.
Don't accuse people of being a blind mob, perhaps some people can see beyond the CAW rhetoric and are not blindfolded by the union.

You would need to write a lot more than that to convince me that the internet is not ablaze with it's own anti union rhetoric right now. It's unreal how many people are just on the bandwagon with zero understanding of the present issues. After all, the CAW caused this entire auto industry crisis according to popular online opinion.

[Pete_Coach]

You would need to write a lot more than that to convince me that the internet is not ablaze with it's own anti union rhetoric right now. It's unreal how many people are just on the bandwagon with zero understanding of the present issues. After all, the CAW caused this entire auto industry crisis according to popular online opinion.

I could write a lot more but, it would become a long, tedious to read and, boring for most. You are right, the anonymous (and often very young persons) on the internet may not understand the history of a situation but, in this particular case, the CAW is expecting more from this "pension protection" fund than is available or what is available to everyone. They want their whole pension covered.
Did the companies use pension money to bail themselves out, probably yes but, it did save the companies from total collapse. Here is an alternative, let GM go bankrupt. Then there will be no pension issue, they lose it all. If bankrupt, they will not be liable for the pension plan. Ask the people from Nortel. I believe the CAW has to explain to it's members what the situation is and what they (the CAW) can do for all the years of collecting dues. I am not anti union, just anti stupid and anti gimme gimme.

[najibs]

GM/Chrysler are the main problem. They have been running on broken business models since the 1970's by trying to get top dollar for inferior products.

Yes, this is why I'm in favour of bankruptcy. It's the ONLY realistic way that GM and Chrysler can re-emerge competitive with a new focus on new QUALITY products that consumers actually want.

[teknoluv]

While I am definitely not a fan of the CAW and even more despise the losers at GM, I do have sympathy towards the retirees (those ALREADY retired). Having said that, the fault is NOT at the Ontario Libearals' end (which the CAW try diverting to), and this also sheds a good light on how serious this GM/Chrysler+Ford farce is (esp. for those who try to downplay their financial problems). What really p*sses me off is, they also try to scare us into save their *ss by saying that if they go down then everything goes down. Guess what, for those scumbags, I wouldn't mind paying an arm and a leg if they really go down, and go down in history being inducted in the hall of shame.

[help_questions]

Yeah let's blame the Union.

The Gov't allowed a loophole in pension funding that let Companies underfund their workers pension plans.

The Companies (I'm sure there's more than the big three) took advantage of this and underfunded their workers pensions.

The Gov't has a backup fund for pensions of companies that go bankrupt but doesn't make the companies contribute what they owe so it's underfunded too.

Note the union is partly at fault for bleeding the companies over the last 20+ years. The companies are at fault because for running a failing business. Now they both will fall.

If the government underfunded the back up fund, they I am okay with them continuing to underfund the back up fund to prevent a tax increase or a drain on the safety net or a cut back in other areas of gov't services (that I benefit from). I do really feel bad for the retirees, but I don't want to pay for the solution to the problem.



Now you have people who have worked for years for these companies finding out they are quite possibly SOL when it comes to their pensions plans, but hey **** them it's their fault.

You people do realize the the pension protection plan that covers the first $1000/month is for any worker that losses his pension due his former employer going under is for ANYONE who payed into a company pension plan and lost it, not just unionized workers?

Note the union is partly at fault for bleeding the companies over the last 20+ years. The companies are at fault because for running a failing business. Now they both will fall.

As I said, it do not feel this is the pensioners fault, BUT they are SOL because it is not something that taxpayers should fix.

You bring up a good point here. The pension protection plan is for everyone, so a single sector/industry should not be permitted to drain it. By that I mean that the auto sector should be only X % of what is in the pension protection plan. The rest should be allocated reserved, for other Canadians, in other sector.

What %age should go to the auto sector? I don't know, but definitely not 100%.

[help_questions]

While I am definitely not a fan of the CAW and even more despise the losers at GM, I do have sympathy towards the retirees (those ALREADY retired). Having said that, the fault is NOT at the Ontario Libearals' end (which the CAW try diverting to), and this also sheds a good light on how serious this GM/Chrysler+Ford farce is (esp. for those who try to downplay their financial problems). What really p*sses me off is, they also try to scare us into save their *ss by saying that if they go down then everything goes down. Guess what, for those scumbags, I wouldn't mind paying an arm and a leg if they really go down, and go down in history being inducted in the hall of shame.

I feel bad for them too. I cannot imagine what they are going through, the uncertainty they are feeling.

That said, what is the solution? This is not the responsibility of the taxpayers. We are in a recession, and already bailing the big three out so they can fail a few months later...where is the line drawn? Regardless of how bad I feel, taxpayers should not fund the solution.