Can he be charged for Break & Enter?

[canguy9999]

So I have this friend, hes been told hes a suspect in a break & enter that was reported by his ex. Now him and his ex broke up about a week ago, though both still technically reside in the same apartment; both names are on the lease. They are also considered common law, as they've been living together for a while.

So my friend went to the police before anything happened letting them know the situation because he was worried she'd try something like this or even worse(accuse him of assault), the police told him there isn't much they can really do, but took record of him coming in.

He then went to get his stuff from the apartment, where he found his room trashed and certain things of his destroyed. He got his stuff out, as much as he could take anyways.

Two days later the cops call him saying he a suspect in a break and enter because his exs room in that apartment that had a lock on it was broken, and some things in her room we're trashed. Is this possible? Or did she just leave the part of them both being on the lease and common law out of it when reporting it?

I was there when we moved his stuff out, and I didn't see him trash anything in her room, though I was outside loading stuff for half the time we we're there. I was also pretty sure the door that was locked, was really not locked when we got there but I could be wrong.

Hes going to the police station today to be questioned but I'd just like to know if its actually possible for him to get in trouble or any sort of record because of this? I would highly doubt he could, but I have no experience in anything like this.

Any sort of record could really screw up his life because of his chosen career, and I'm sure thats the only reason she is trying to get him in trouble here.

[CheapScotsman]

Yes, your friend could be in trouble

He should watch this video before he goes and sees the police: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

[jcon]

Yes, your friend could be in trouble

He should watch this video before he goes and sees the police: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

That's very helpful, if this happened in the US.

[CheapScotsman]

That's very helpful, if this happened in the US.

Its also very helpful in Canada. While the laws are specific; the concepts are the same.

You have the right to remain silent ... most people schmuck themselves up by talking too much.
The police's job is to collect evidence and find the/a guilty party ... they aren't there to help you when you are a suspect.

[Eyies]

So my friend went to the police before anything happened letting them know the situation because he was worried she'd try something like this or even worse(accuse him of assault), the police told him there isn't much they can really do, but took record of him coming in.

Yea.. definitely not suspicious.

[canguy9999]

But getting charged for a break & enter in your own place? They both are on the lease and are common law.

I know the whole concept of not talking and so does he, but he just wants to get this over with ASAP. Plus if he didn't say anything I'd be more worried she'd try and get him on something else later on, and he'd possibly look more guilty for not saying anything in this situation. She has been known to make up wild stories, and would probably do anything she could to hurt him.

Does it work in his favor if she recently tried to commit suicide or is on anti-psychotics?

Just seems crazy when shes obviously not stable and destroyed his stuff that he could get in trouble.

[canguy9999]

Yea.. definitely not suspicious.

If you knew this girl it wouldn't be. She is right out crazy. We've been hoping this was going to end for a very long time.

She makes up stories all of the time.

[Stoe99]

First off your friend is under no obligations to be questioned or even meet with the police, so tell him not too.

The police clearly have nothing on him, even if they fingerprinted the door (which they wouldn't in something so miniscule) it's only natural they would find his prints on it, he lived there!

Tell him not to go in to the station

[canguy9999]

So hadn't heard this part of the story yet, but my friend has been off work for the past few days and I guess how the police got a hold of him to ask him to come in for questioning is they went to his work place.

My friend was off work but they got his cell phone number from someone at work. His ex has his phone number, and knows where he is staying but specifically only told the police where he worked, so they'd go in and embarrass him and try and cause issues for him.

If he still refuses to talk do they follow up to try again? Come back into his work place?

This is all crazy because I know shes the one in the wrong, and just trying to cause issues for him.

[Stoe99]

Yes, tell him to keep refusing to speak with the police.....I have said this before in topics, talking to the police will not help you, only hurt you. If they want they can bring him in, charge him, and he can wait till disclosure. Odds are, they have jack ****.

[YoungDr3amer]

Everything sounds sketchy.

[canguy9999]

Everything sounds sketchy.

Well ya, its a ridiculous story but its pretty much as simple as its written.

[bobbings]

Well ya, its a ridiculous story but its pretty much as simple as its written.

The thing is your friend went to the police ahead of time to come clean and let them know that there's a potential for something like this to happen. Shortly after, it actually happens. Sound sketchy, no?

[deltone]

The thing is your friend went to the police ahead of time to come clean and let them know that there's a potential for something like this to happen. Shortly after, it actually happens. Sound sketchy, no?

Actually, when you are dealing with normal, reasonable people, yes, it sounds sketchy but the sad reality is that there are a LOT of evil, sick, horrible people out there who are capable of making false reports and causing havoc in someone's life. I've seen it happen and yes, I believe that it's often possible to "predict" that one of these creeps would do such a thing as the OP is alleging.

[canguy9999]

Ya it could to someone outside maybe. But he you knew her...you wouldn't. Shes made up a story once of a guy trying to break into her their home to get attention. Shes called the cops for random things at least 3 times in the last 8 months. One was another roommate(who wasn't on the lease) was mouthing off to her supposedly so she told he had to leave by the next day or she'd call the cops. She called the cops.

Someone tried to break in while she was alone at home and my friend was at work. She called the cops.

Someone was following her/trying to kidnap her, so she called the cops.

Now I can't say for sure by the way she told these stories and when they happened them seemed so made up. She really likes to get attention anyway it comes. When the two we're breaking up she kept updates on facebook of whats going on, but put everything to the extreme to make her look like a victim.

Then she called all of his friends(after they were broken up) saying she didn't know where he was and something might have happened. But she never tried any of his family or the place she knew he was staying. Just everyone else to cause worry and get attention.

The only reason I think she "attempted" suicide was for the attention.

[nyrz]

the sad reality is that there are a LOT of evil, sick, horrible people out there who are capable of making false reports and causing havoc in someone's life. I've seen it happen and yes, I believe that it's often possible to "predict" that one of these creeps would do such a thing as the OP is alleging.

I agree.

I believe the guy's story because I've met psychotic people and they don't stop with their insanity or insane behavior.

Pity the person who meets or becomes involved with a psychotic person.

[Dash]

I was in a similar situation once. my place got robbed (no forced entry), and I was a suspect. I wouldn't worry too much if I were your friend. if he didn't do it, then it's unlikely that they'll find evidence that he did.

[canguy9999]

Just curious but if going to the police seems suspicious, if he thought she might try something like this what should have been his best course of action?

[canguy9999]

But what kind of evidence would you need. From whats been pieced together it seems like her story is.

She was there, everything was fine, she locked her door to keep anyone out, left for the weekend to get away. Friends picked her up and confirm this. She came back on her own, her room was trashed. She sees her ex picked up most of his things, 3rd roommate confirms he was there to do so. But knows nothing of him breaking anything in the room as he was asleep when things we're being moved out.

She goes to the police saying it must of been her ex because he was angry, everything was fine before she left. It could really one be one of three people, the ex, the other roommate, or herself trashing the room to get her ex in ****. I don't think my friend did it, nor the roommate, if I we're to guess I'd say she trashed it herself. But I'm obviously bias in this situation.

[deltone]

I'm not so sure this would even be a case of breaking and entering and I don't think it's even a criminal case. If they were living common-law, then basically if he destroys stuff in THEIR home, he's considered to be breaking his own stuff, more or less. It's not criminal. Like if my husband and I fought and I went in his closet and ripped up all his clothes and broke his golf clubs, it's not a criminal act (it's crazy but not criminal). Now perhaps he could take me to small claims court to try to recoup his losses but I can't see how he could have me charged. The "rules" are different when you are living together and/or married, as far as I know. Of course, I'm no lawyer.

[Heynow999]

If he goes to speak to the police he is going to spend the night in jail. Stop him if you can. What he should do is talk to his lawyer and make arrangements through his lawyer to turn himself in at the courthouse, early in the morning so he can be dealt with that day. Otherwise, they will hold him until he can go before a judge. I bet if he has gone to talk to the cops already, he is locked up. Try to call him and see if he has gone yet. I'll wait .....

[Ovechkin]

If he goes to speak to the police he is going to spend the night in jail. Stop him if you can. What he should do is talk to his lawyer and make arrangements through his lawyer to turn himself in at the courthouse, early in the morning so he can be dealt with that day. Otherwise, they will hold him until he can go before a judge. I bet if he has gone to talk to the cops already, he is locked up. Try to call him and see if he has gone yet. I'll wait .....

exactly tell your friend not to do anything without a lawyer, and i've been in this situation before and they say they just want to talk to you but they end up arresting you. Make sure your friend does it fast though because if the police are looking for him for too long then they will get a warrent for him and then he will have to get bailed, which is a huge pain in the ass and if nobody can bail him out he will be in jail until his trial is finished.

[Nikita]

But getting charged for a break & enter in your own place? They both are on the lease and are common law.

I know the whole concept of not talking and so does he, but he just wants to get this over with ASAP. Plus if he didn't say anything I'd be more worried she'd try and get him on something else later on, and he'd possibly look more guilty for not saying anything in this situation. She has been known to make up wild stories, and would probably do anything she could to hurt him.

Does it work in his favor if she recently tried to commit suicide or is on anti-psychotics?

Just seems crazy when shes obviously not stable and destroyed his stuff that he could get in trouble.

It might work to hurt her credibility in court. It might also be ruled inadmissible for various reasons (confidential medical records, relevance to proving the charge etc). It won't mean crap to the police. She's likely saying the same kind of things about your friend.

The thing is your friend went to the police ahead of time to come clean and let them know that there's a potential for something like this to happen. Shortly after, it actually happens. Sound sketchy, no?

Yep, my first thought too, and likely the cop's.

Actually, when you are dealing with normal, reasonable people, yes, it sounds sketchy but the sad reality is that there are a LOT of evil, sick, horrible people out there who are capable of making false reports and causing havoc in someone's life. I've seen it happen and yes, I believe that it's often possible to "predict" that one of these creeps would do such a thing as the OP is alleging.

But to the police, they're both just two joe blows, both likely making accusations that the other is nuts. The police don't know anything about either of them, but they do know that it is very odd for someone to walk into a police station and tell them this kind of story, let alone to have it then happen. OP, I'm curious, how long before the break-in did your friend go into the police station?

Ya it could to someone outside maybe. But he you knew her...you wouldn't. Shes made up a story once of a guy trying to break into her their home to get attention. Shes called the cops for random things at least 3 times in the last 8 months. One was another roommate(who wasn't on the lease) was mouthing off to her supposedly so she told he had to leave by the next day or she'd call the cops. She called the cops.

Someone tried to break in while she was alone at home and my friend was at work. She called the cops.

Someone was following her/trying to kidnap her, so she called the cops.

Now I can't say for sure by the way she told these stories and when they happened them seemed so made up. She really likes to get attention anyway it comes. When the two we're breaking up she kept updates on facebook of whats going on, but put everything to the extreme to make her look like a victim.

Then she called all of his friends(after they were broken up) saying she didn't know where he was and something might have happened. But she never tried any of his family or the place she knew he was staying. Just everyone else to cause worry and get attention.

The only reason I think she "attempted" suicide was for the attention.

The police already know about her other calls to them, they'll likely consider her history, or w/e they know of her history.

But what kind of evidence would you need. From whats been pieced together it seems like her story is.

She was there, everything was fine, she locked her door to keep anyone out, left for the weekend to get away. Friends picked her up and confirm this. She came back on her own, her room was trashed. She sees her ex picked up most of his things, 3rd roommate confirms he was there to do so. But knows nothing of him breaking anything in the room as he was asleep when things we're being moved out.

She goes to the police saying it must of been her ex because he was angry, everything was fine before she left. It could really one be one of three people, the ex, the other roommate, or herself trashing the room to get her ex in ****. I don't think my friend did it, nor the roommate, if I we're to guess I'd say she trashed it herself. But I'm obviously bias in this situation.

All of that is circumstantial and though convictions have been had on purely circumstantial evidence, if that's all there really is to her story, it doesn't sound like a Crown would even proceed, let alone be successsful...but that's just my 2 cents.


exactly tell your friend not to do anything without a lawyer, and i've been in this situation before and they say they just want to talk to you but they end up arresting you. Make sure your friend does it fast though because if the police are looking for him for too long then they will get a warrent for him and then he will have to get bailed, which is a huge pain in the ass and if nobody can bail him out he will be in jail until his trial is finished.

If this is his first offence, he'll likely be released by cops w/o having to appear in bail court and w/o cash bond, likely with conditions, one of them will more than likely be that he not attend at the apartment.

Tell your friend to talk to a lawyer before doing anything.

[Kasakato]

Its also very helpful in Canada. While the laws are specific; the concepts are the same.

You have the right to remain silent ... most people schmuck themselves up by talking too much.
The police's job is to collect evidence and find the/a guilty party ... they aren't there to help you when you are a suspect.
There is no such right as the, "right to remain silent." You can interpretation the Charter that way, but its merely an interpretation. Heres an article:
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/272929

[Nikita]

There is no such right as the, "right to remain silent." You can interpretation the Charter that way, but its merely an interpretation. Heres an article:
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/272929

True, but you also have no legal obligation to go in and speak to police just cuz they ask. Nor do you have any legal obligation to answer questions even if you are arrested.

[Kasakato]

exactly tell your friend not to do anything without a lawyer, and i've been in this situation before and they say they just want to talk to you but they end up arresting you. Make sure your friend does it fast though because if the police are looking for him for too long then they will get a warrent for him and then he will have to get bailed, which is a huge pain in the ass and if nobody can bail him out he will be in jail until his trial is finished.
Either way, if the police want to lay charges, they will arrest him.

If he goes to speak to the police he is going to spend the night in jail. Stop him if you can. What he should do is talk to his lawyer and make arrangements through his lawyer to turn himself in at the courthouse, early in the morning so he can be dealt with that day. Otherwise, they will hold him until he can go before a judge. I bet if he has gone to talk to the cops already, he is locked up. Try to call him and see if he has gone yet. I'll wait .....
He would have to be charged is that were true. Not everyone going to "talk" gets thrown in jail. Given the amount of information going around, I dont see charges being laid.

I'm not so sure this would even be a case of breaking and entering and I don't think it's even a criminal case. If they were living common-law, then basically if he destroys stuff in THEIR home, he's considered to be breaking his own stuff, more or less. It's not criminal. Like if my husband and I fought and I went in his closet and ripped up all his clothes and broke his golf clubs, it's not a criminal act (it's crazy but not criminal). Now perhaps he could take me to small claims court to try to recoup his losses but I can't see how he could have me charged. The "rules" are different when you are living together and/or married, as far as I know. Of course, I'm no lawyer.
This is very much so true. By definition, BandE requires an indictable offense to be committed/have the intent to commit an indictable offense after entry/before exit. Simply messing up the room is not an offense.

The guy also had a colour of right of access to the building. As he had a legal relationship with the spouse, I see no reason why he should be excluded.

[Ovechkin]

If this is his first offence, he'll likely be released by cops w/o having to appear in bail court and w/o cash bond, likely with conditions, one of them will more than likely be that he not attend at the apartment.

Tell your friend to talk to a lawyer before doing anything.

if they have to get a warrent it automatically goes to bail court

[Kasakato]

if they have to get a warrent it automatically goes to bail court

It would depend on what he is charged with, but seeing as the crime was non violent, and hes not an escape risk, hes not going to jail. A notice to appear would be issued.

[Heynow999]

Look, they went to this guy's work. They want to arrest him. They don't go driving around looking for people unless they want to take him in. If they just wanted to talk, they would phone. He's going to be arrested. He will have to go before a judge because there will be conditions on his release. So he will spend the night in jail. Not fun. Get a lawyer.

OP, we need updates to see who is right. Can you call him? They will take his cell phone away when they lock him up. Does he answer?

[andrew2good4u]

this girl had bad apple written all over her.

OP, your buddy should have left her a long time ago

[nyrz]

this girl had bad apple written all over her.

OP, your buddy should have left her a long time ago

- he was desperate for a girlfriend

- he couldn't say "no" to free sex

- she fooled him by putting on a "nice" act

- he saw her psycho true colors when they lived together

[canguy9999]

Well he didn't go in, but left the police a message saying he'd rather have a phone interview or reschedule because of some things coming up. Which was legit.

It would depend on what he is charged with, but seeing as the crime was non violent, and hes not an escape risk, hes not going to jail. A notice to appear would be issued.

This all seems crazy to me, I wouldn't think something like this would have the possibility to be so serious. So some things in her room got trashed, in a shared resident with the fingers being pointed at the ex boyfriend.

As far as not being a flight risk, he is leaving the country in a month. Been planned for a long while, has to do with work...and this is where the issue of hurting his job comes in and his ex knows it.

And them going to his place of work, she defiantly only gave the police where he worked and no number to contact them. Of course they probably could have googled the number, but when its 5 minutes from the police station maybe going in was more convenient.

[canguy9999]

It might work to hurt her credibility in court. It might also be ruled inadmissible for various reasons (confidential medical records, relevance to proving the charge etc). It won't mean crap to the police. She's likely saying the same kind of things about your friend.

Yep, my first thought too, and likely the cop's.

But to the police, they're both just two joe blows, both likely making accusations that the other is nuts. The police don't know anything about either of them, but they do know that it is very odd for someone to walk into a police station and tell them this kind of story, let alone to have it then happen. OP, I'm curious, how long before the break-in did your friend go into the police station?

A week, maybe slightly more. He went in to grab some important stuff, one day with a co-worker. She flipped on him.

He didn't want to have to go back until she wasn't there so she wouldn't cause any further issue, so he got the 3rd roommate to tell him when she was gone.

A few of us went to help him move his stuff out when she was gone for the weekend.

[canguy9999]

I'm not so sure this would even be a case of breaking and entering and I don't think it's even a criminal case. If they were living common-law, then basically if he destroys stuff in THEIR home, he's considered to be breaking his own stuff, more or less. It's not criminal. Like if my husband and I fought and I went in his closet and ripped up all his clothes and broke his golf clubs, it's not a criminal act (it's crazy but not criminal). Now perhaps he could take me to small claims court to try to recoup his losses but I can't see how he could have me charged. The "rules" are different when you are living together and/or married, as far as I know. Of course, I'm no lawyer.

Thats what I though too...though some people in this thread are making me think twice about that.

But again this is where I think she only told the police half truths. She probably left out the common law part and probably left out the fact that they we're very often in each others rooms and are both on the lease.

[canguy9999]

- he was desperate for a girlfriend

- he couldn't say "no" to free sex

- she fooled him by putting on a "nice" act

- he saw her psycho true colors when they lived together

I'd say more point 3 and 4. But I think hes been trying to figure a safe way to end it and get out for a little while. But various things we're preventing that for a little while.

[bobbings]

I'd say more point 3 and 4. But I think hes been trying to figure a safe way to end it and get out for a little while. But various things we're preventing that for a little while.

So how is your friend reacting to the psycho bi@tch? Is he just bending over and taking it up the b u t t or is he being mean in return?

[ES_Revenge]

There is no such right as the, "right to remain silent." You can interpretation the Charter that way, but its merely an interpretation. Heres an article:
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/272929

Of course you have a right to remain silent. You have the right to say or not say whatever you want (provided you don't break other laws in doing so), whether you're arrested or not.

And, your right to remain silent in Canada is apparently not much different from the right of law enforcement to continually ask the same question(s)! You give up your right to remain silent out of frustration and confess to a crime you did commit? Well that's your too damn bad, LOL.

As for the OP and his friend, I doubt he's going to get charged with anything (he hasn't already has he?).

If I were the judge in this case though, I'd sentence them both to appear on "Judge Judy" :lol:

[canguy9999]

So how is your friend reacting to the psycho bi@tch? Is he just bending over and taking it up the b u t t or is he being mean in return?

Why stir **** up when you just want to get away, and as fast as possible. Hes leaving the country soon, leave her behind in his past.

[Firebot]

Why stir **** up when you just want to get away, and as fast as possible. Hes leaving the country soon, leave her behind in his past.

He isn't leaving the country soon with a break and enter charge potentially going on him. He needs to get this dropped and resolved asap, and to talk to a lawyer right away.

[Nikita]

if they have to get a warrent it automatically goes to bail court

No, they don't. The OIC has the discretion to release a charged person on conditions w/o a hearing, no matter how they were arrested.

It would depend on what he is charged with, but seeing as the crime was non violent, and hes not an escape risk, hes not going to jail. A notice to appear would be issued.

I agree....with conditions of course.

Look, they went to this guy's work. They want to arrest him. They don't go driving around looking for people unless they want to take him in. If they just wanted to talk, they would phone. He's going to be arrested. He will have to go before a judge because there will be conditions on his release. So he will spend the night in jail. Not fun. Get a lawyer.
OP, we need updates to see who is right. Can you call him? They will take his cell phone away when they lock him up. Does he answer?

Wrong....they often do the same thing with witnesses, go their home or place of work or w/e, (especially if they have no phone number) and request a statement. Just cuz they went to him instead of calling him doesn NOT mean he's going to get arrested, nor does it mean that if he's arrested they'll keep him in jail for a bail hearing. The officer in charge can still release on a promise to appear.

Of course you have a right to remain silent. You have the right to say or not say whatever you want (provided you don't break other laws in doing so), whether you're arrested or not.

And, your right to remain silent in Canada is apparently not much different from the right of law enforcement to continually ask the same question(s)! You give up your right to remain silent out of frustration and confess to a crime you did commit? Well that's your too damn bad, LOL.

As for the OP and his friend, I doubt he's going to get charged with anything (he hasn't already has he?).

If I were the judge in this case though, I'd sentence them both to appear on "Judge Judy" :lol:

I think people are failing to consider the distinction b/w a right to remain silent when being questioned by police, and the right to remain silent in the box in court.

You never have to answer police questions, no matter how long they keep you or how many times they ask the same question.

In court, you have no right to remain silent as a witness, but anything you do say cannot then be used against you. As an accused, as I'm sure everyone knows, you don't ever have to testify, but if you do, of course everything you say is fair game then.

[Kasakato]

Of course you have a right to remain silent. You have the right to say or not say whatever you want (provided you don't break other laws in doing so), whether you're arrested or not.

And, your right to remain silent in Canada is apparently not much different from the right of law enforcement to continually ask the same question(s)! You give up your right to remain silent out of frustration and confess to a crime you did commit? Well that's your too damn bad, LOL.

As for the OP and his friend, I doubt he's going to get charged with anything (he hasn't already has he?).

If I were the judge in this case though, I'd sentence them both to appear on "Judge Judy" :lol:

There is no, "right to remain" silent, per say. Using US terminology in Canada is improper. The Charter grants you similar rights.

[Kasakato]

He isn't leaving the country soon with a break and enter charge potentially going on him. He needs to get this dropped and resolved asap, and to talk to a lawyer right away.

He has not been charged with anything, he is as free as you or I to leave Canada. Of course, sticking around will probably be in his best interest; however he is under no obligation to.

[canguy9999]

He talked to the Police. They seemingly believed his story, let him go. Just told him they might contact him about it again in the future but gave him the impression everything should be fine.

My guess is they just didn't have all the relevant information as his ex left out a lot of important facts.

[Heynow999]

I am glad I was wrong and he didn't get arrested. I just wanted to help him avoid a night in jail, if he was going to be arrested