High Occupancy Vehicle Lane Ticket!

[mystery]

This morning I got a ticket for

'IMPROPER USE OF HIGH OCCUPANCY VEHICLE LANE', H.T.A. 154.1(3)

under the bridge of the exit from Highway 404 south going to Highway 401 west.

The cop was nice about giving me the ticket and suggested I set a court date, which I will.

I though the HOV lane ended prior to that exit, as there was a dotted line right before it.

However, I did a bit of googling and all the dotted line means is that it is safe to change lanes there.

I had no idea they had dedicated exit ramps for HOV. I thought it was just roads. The only reason I was even there was because my car had to be checked and I didn't know the area.

[weedb0y]

This morning I got a ticket for

'IMPROPER USE OF HIGH OCCUPANCY VEHICLE LANE', H.T.A. 154.1(3)

under the bridge of the exit from Highway 404 south going to Highway 401 west.

The cop was nice about giving me the ticket and suggested I set a court date, which I will.

I though the HOV lane ended prior to that exit, as there was a dotted line right before it.

However, I did a bit of googling and all the dotted line means is that it is safe to change lanes there.

I had no idea they had dedicated exit ramps for HOV. I thought it was just roads. The only reason I was even there was because my car had to be checked and I didn't know the area.

Sorry to burst your bubble, HOV lanes have always been 'dedicated'. When they end, they merge into the other lanes, not become dedicated lanes.

[corrupt123]

Yeah dude, you deserve that ticket.

Especially at that spot. The number of people who jump in on the 404S just before the 401 is crazy, it pisses me off.

What also pisses me off is people who drive down the middle-left or left lanes because they're fast, then cut across two lanes to make it to the right side and get off onto the 401. It's because of these people alone that traffic sucks right around that spot. I guarentee it.

[bst]

Here's the drawing and picture of the HOV lane. The dash line ends after the entrance to Hwy 401 WB.

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/4114/hov.th.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hov.jpg)

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4518/hov2.th.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hov2.jpg)

[Tomy]

nice.. i see ppl do it everyday.. i thought the pigs are always sleeping to enforce the HOV.. i once counted 7/10 cars didn't have 2 or more ppl, when im stuck in traffic going 5-10 km /hr

[mystery]

Oh well, I'm still going to set a court date. Hopefully it will be so delayed that I can claim the charter rights defense, or it won't even make it to court.

I just can't afford that ticket now. It was also 3 demerit points!

I really thought the HOV lane ended. Maybe I was mistaken, but there weren't obvious signs the HOV continued during the exit. I'm going to drive by and check again and take pictures if it helps my case.

[S N Frost]

Oh well, I'm still going to set a court date. Hopefully it will be so delayed that I can claim the charter rights defense, or it won't even make it to court.

I just can't afford that ticket now. It was also 3 demerit points!

I really thought the HOV lane ended. Maybe I was mistaken, but there weren't obvious signs the HOV continued during the exit. I'm going to drive by and check again and take pictures if it helps my case.

While I agree that HOV signage is not completely clear, if I am not mistaken, there are HOV diamonds marked on the road throughout that ramp. Granted, thats too late, but it is marked. Where an HOV lane simply ends, as on the 403, there is a sign clearly saying so.

[crisis1900]

Even if you think the signage is not clear, there is no way to get into that tunnel without crossing into the HOV lane. There's a solid white line or double solid line dividing the hwy from the HOV lane.

[mystery]

Even if you think the signage is not clear, there is no way to get into that tunnel without crossing into the HOV lane. There's a solid white line or double solid line dividing the hwy from the HOV lane.

If I remember correctly there were dashed lines right before the exit.

[Si98]

I take that way all the time and its pretty obvious that the HOV lane extends into the tunnel.

How much was the damage?

[DragonZealot]

If I remember correctly there were dashed lines right before the exit.

Obviously you don't remember correctly.

There is no way you can get to that tunnel from a regular driving lane without crossing a solid line or a double solid line.

The dash lines are separating the 2 HOV lanes right before the exit, not the regular driving lane and the exit to the tunnel.

To me the signs and markings are clear.

Go check it out.

[mystery]

I take that way all the time and its pretty obvious that the HOV lane extends into the tunnel.

How much was the damage?

I must have been temporarily (hopefully!) insane.

Ticket is $110.00, with 3 demerits.

[Tomy]

obviously you don't remember correctly.

There is no way you can get to that tunnel from a regular driving lane without crossing a solid line or a double solid line.

The dash lines are separating the 2 hov lanes right before the exit, not the regular driving lane and the exit to the tunnel.

To me the signs and markings are clear.

Go check it out.

+1..

[kmltick]

I think the last valid entrance to that lane (which is still marked as HOV) is close to Finch.

In fairness, you may have confused the split of the HOV lane as your dashed lines. (where the HOV splits to DVP & 401 West) but there's still a solid you would have had to cross.

[smartidiot]

Yeah dude, you deserve that ticket.

Especially at that spot. The number of people who jump in on the 404S just before the 401 is crazy, it pisses me off.

What also pisses me off is people who drive down the middle-left or left lanes because they're fast, then cut across two lanes to make it to the right side and get off onto the 401. It's because of these people alone that traffic sucks right around that spot. I guarentee it.

seems like you get pissed off easily

[Tomy]

seems like you get pissed off easily

you have no idea what you're talking about

[Twinbros]

Dude, just suck it up by paying the fine or waste the tax payer's money by dragging this to court. Either way, you won't get away unless the cop does not show.



This morning I got a ticket for

'IMPROPER USE OF HIGH OCCUPANCY VEHICLE LANE', H.T.A. 154.1(3)

under the bridge of the exit from Highway 404 south going to Highway 401 west.

The cop was nice about giving me the ticket and suggested I set a court date, which I will.

I though the HOV lane ended prior to that exit, as there was a dotted line right before it.

However, I did a bit of googling and all the dotted line means is that it is safe to change lanes there.

I had no idea they had dedicated exit ramps for HOV. I thought it was just roads. The only reason I was even there was because my car had to be checked and I didn't know the area.

[mystery]

Dude, just suck it up by paying the fine or waste the tax payer's money by dragging this to court. Either way, you won't get away unless the cop does not show.

Actually the cop suggested that I set up a trial date and maybe they could work something out. He was very apologetic about giving me the ticket but he said he had to because of the numerous complaints.

[Homer88]

If I remember correctly there were dashed lines right before the exit.

Once you've past Finch on the 404 there is no way you can enter back into the HOV lanes unless you crossed through a solid white line. The HOV lane splits into the DVP HOV and 401W HOV at around Sheppard, but the lines clearly indicates you can go out of the HOV, and not into. The dashed lines are probably for the HOV lane cars to go into the short DVP HOV stretch, not for the 404 people to jump on the 401W HOV on-ramp

[Si98]

Actually the cop suggested that I set up a trial date and maybe they could work something out. He was very apologetic about giving me the ticket but he said he had to because of the numerous complaints.

That cop gave you a ticket because you broke the law not because of numerous complaints. He was just saying those things to ease your nerves. Why don't you just pay the fine, take this as a lesson well learned, and just move on? What exactly are you going to say to the judge to make you look innocent without looking incompetent?

[mystery]

That cop gave you a ticket because you broke the law not because of numerous complaints. He was just saying those things to ease your nerves. Why don't you just pay the fine, take this as a lesson well learned, and just move on? What exactly are you going to say to the judge to make you look innocent without looking incompetent?

And how do you know the cop's motivations? A cop usually has the discretion
to either give a ticket or let one off with a warning. Just because they can give a ticket doesn't mean they always do.

You know, I'm sick of being dumped on here by all of the 'holier than thou' people here. I know that I'm guilty.

If the cop says my best course of action is to file for a court date, why not?
If anything, it will delay me having to pay the fine, and from what the cop said the ticket could be reduced possibly. Or better yet, he may not even show and the ticket gets dropped.

[jm1]

nice.. i see ppl do it everyday.. i thought the pigs are always sleeping to enforce the HOV.. i once counted 7/10 cars didn't have 2 or more ppl, when im stuck in traffic going 5-10 km /hr

Ticks me off too, but in fairness, kids count as occupants and when my kid in in his car seat and my back windows have some tint, he's hard to see and I've gotten nasty looks from people when I try to merge back into the normal lanes and they think I've been using using the HOV lanes illegally when they don't see my kid in the back. Whenever I go past a OPP cruiser in the HOV lanes, I always expect them to pull me over because of this, but they never do, so I suppose they're used to looking for car seats before pulling someone over.

The biggest problem is when the normal lanes are stopped and people are zooming along the HOV, some idiot will jump into the HOV at a non-designated spot and think their pickup truck will go from 0 to 100 kmh in the 4 seconds between cars. Whenever there's a big difference in lane speeds, I always keep a close eye on the slow lane and one foot ready to brake for these idiots. Of course, to top it off, these guys only have one person in there otherwise they would've taken the HOV to begin with.

[Jon Lai]

And how do you know the cop's motivations? A cop usually has the discretion
to either give a ticket or let one off with a warning. Just because they can give a ticket doesn't mean they always do.

You know, I'm sick of being dumped on here by all of the 'holier than thou' people here. I know that I'm guilty.

If the cop says my best course of action is to file for a court date, why not?
If anything, it will delay me having to pay the fine, and from what the cop said the ticket could be reduced possibly. Or better yet, he may not even show and the ticket gets dropped.

But setting a court date is wasting my money, RFD's money, taxpayer's money.. so don't do it :)

But OP, I do feel sorry for you. Most people accidentally get onto the HOV without knowing it, but I hate the bunch that purposely go on the HOV with one person. Rats to you all.

[soniko]

they should make the dash line with the solid line on the right..instead of just the dash line. that can show you can exit to the left..but not enter to the right...

[Si98]

But setting a court date is wasting my money, RFD's money, taxpayer's money.. so don't do it :)

But OP, I do feel sorry for you. Most people accidentally get onto the HOV without knowing it, but I hate the bunch that purposely go on the HOV with one person. Rats to you all.

When you are granted a driver license its expected that you follow rules. Driving can put people in life and death situations. When you "accidently" miss a road sign by not paying proper attention you deserve to get a ticket. I don't feel sorry for careless unobservant drivers at all. They are a danger to the road. I'm not here to pick on you OP. No hard feelings.

[bst]

And how do you know the cop's motivations? A cop usually has the discretion
to either give a ticket or let one off with a warning. Just because they can give a ticket doesn't mean they always do.

You know, I'm sick of being dumped on here by all of the 'holier than thou' people here. I know that I'm guilty.

If the cop says my best course of action is to file for a court date, why not?
If anything, it will delay me having to pay the fine, and from what the cop said the ticket could be reduced possibly. Or better yet, he may not even show and the ticket gets dropped.

In all fairness, you're not the only one that gets ridiculed if you did something wrong and try to get away with it. There are many threads where people blatantly broke the law, and got ridiculed in their threads as well. Don't expect sympathy as your situation is clear cut.

[evoviii]

It's the people who use HOV with just one person that riles everyone up. So OP this type of topic naturally grates on everyone's nerves but you look at other threads they get dumped on.

The cop is saying that they are receiving many complaints about ppl who abuse the HOV and there's many. You may have made a more honest mistake, but the law does not allow for ignorance. The cop may have been sympathetic. But seriously the difference between the dedicated HOV ramp and the actual 401 ramp is huge. There's many signs along the way.

Maybe the cop is saying he won't show up as you are bound to lose in court.

[mystery]

When you are granted a driver license its expected that you follow rules. Driving can put people in life and death situations. When you "accidently" miss a road sign by not paying proper attention you deserve to get a ticket. I don't feel sorry for careless unobservant drivers at all. They are a danger to the road. I'm not here to pick on you OP. No hard feelings.

Yes, I do follow the rules, actually a lot more than the ones I see around me: I see people get into the car and immediately start yacking on their cell phone, because they are so 'important', people who never signal or check blind spots before changing lanes, failing to stop at stop signs, etc.

Where's the police when all of these dangerous things are happening?

The only ticket I have paid for in my life was over 12 years ago for speeding.

My mistakenly being in the HOV lane for < 100 m on a ramp did not endanger anyone, yet I get demerit points.

[ticketcombat]

Despite my better judgment I'm going to jump in on this one with some controversial remarks.

First, why would the cop hand you a ticket and then encourage you to fight it? Answer: Toronto Cops Makes $160,000+ attending traffic courts! (http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=719650)

Second, there's a lot of confusion about lane markings. Solid or dashed, white or yellow, it doesn't matter, they are not mandatory under the highway traffic act. Typically they are placed around areas where you can't change lanes: close to crosswalks, railway tracks, intersections, approaching the crest of a hill, etc. In those situations, changing lanes will get you a ticket. But you cannot get a ticket just because the line is solid (HTA 154).

Third, the white buffer zone markings are mandatory and crossing them will get you a ticket (HTA Reg 620).

Fourth, the HOV signage has to be bilingual. I don't frequent that part of Toronto so I don't know if they are. IF they aren't bilingual according to Reg 620, then your ticket is invalid.

Fifth, the HOV lanes represent to me the greatest example of cowardice by the government with respect to commuter and traffic policy. The lanes should encourage carpooling or car sharing. The minimum number of people should be 4 which reduces the number of vehicles on the road, reduces the number of vehicles in the HOV lanes, and rewards commuters who do carpool.

At only two people, who is traveling in these vehicles? You and your spouse? You and your kid? What has the HOV lane made you do differently? Nothing. This doesn't encourage a reduction of the number of vehicles on the road.

Yes there are examples of two people who do carpool together. I say good for them. But the environmental impact is significantly less than if the HOV lanes encouraged 4 people to share and then rewarded them with a separate lane for their exclusive use.

Sometimes taking an environmentally friendly stand also means that you may be excluded from receiving the benefit of such a policy. But it's much easier to swallow if we recognize the greater good it creates. Previous generations and currently many parts of the world understand the term sacrifice. Whether it was forced through war or famine or tough economic times, people got by.

But in North America, the bellyaching starts at the first sign of inconvenience. The governments compromise on HOV lanes is a classic example.

So OP, fight your ticket and do so proudly. And don't suffer the slings and arrows of those who subscribe to the HOV myth.

[ar_ken]

"Yes, I do follow the rules, actually a lot more than the ones I see around me: I see people get into the car and immediately start yacking on their cell phone, because they are so 'important', people who never signal or check blind spots before changing lanes, failing to stop at stop signs, etc.

Where's the police when all of these dangerous things are happening?"

Seen that before. Next time you get a stop sign ticket you'll be asking "where's the police when I see cars without 2 occupants zooming by me in the HOV lane on the 404 in morning rush hour??"

"First, why would the cop hand you a ticket and then encourage you to fight it? Answer: Toronto Cops Makes $160,000+ attending traffic courts!"

I remotely remember someone on RFD once said, "I believe taking the ticket to court is my right, to make sure the police and the crown are doing their jobs in prosecuting me". (or something to that effect)

If that's the case, why are people whining about paying the police to go to court?

[Jin-n-Juice]

This morning I got a ticket for

'IMPROPER USE OF HIGH OCCUPANCY VEHICLE LANE', H.T.A. 154.1(3)

under the bridge of the exit from Highway 404 south going to Highway 401 west.

The cop was nice about giving me the ticket and suggested I set a court date, which I will.

I though the HOV lane ended prior to that exit, as there was a dotted line right before it.

However, I did a bit of googling and all the dotted line means is that it is safe to change lanes there.

I had no idea they had dedicated exit ramps for HOV. I thought it was just roads. The only reason I was even there was because my car had to be checked and I didn't know the area.

You can't go from the non-HOV lanes into the HOV-401W exit without crossing solid lines. There is also a diamond before the exit.

[superdeals]

Yes, I do follow the rules, actually a lot more than the ones I see around me: I see people get into the car and immediately start yacking on their cell phone, because they are so 'important', people who never signal or check blind spots before changing lanes, failing to stop at stop signs, etc.

Where's the police when all of these dangerous things are happening?

The only ticket I have paid for in my life was over 12 years ago for speeding.

My mistakenly being in the HOV lane for < 100 m on a ramp did not endanger anyone, yet I get demerit points.

By all means, fight it out. Never pay a ticket. And for god's sake, don't listen to these 'Holier than thou' people. It is your money, you must fight any (or all tickets) and it is legal. Best of luck!