Best No Fee Cash Back Credit Card

[goks]

I used to be able to find a great Credit card comparison prepared by an RFDer named Calgary Ben (I think?). Perhaps my searching skills are off but I can't find something as succinct as I used to see.

Can anyone help me out? I am currently using the Canadian Tire Cash Advantage Mastercard but now that it's changing and the tiers seems to be worse than before - I want to find a new no-fee cash back CC.

Any thoughts? People have mentioned the Ultramar card before. And there was some nice AMEX card last year (but you needed to be invited I think?) Any other choices?

Sorry if this message is redundant - I just can't find what I'm looking for.

Thanks.

[segadcsonic]

Don't know where that thread is, but the website for the calculator is here:

http://www3.telus.net/CalgaryBen/

The Ultramar Mastercard from National Bank as you mentioned would be 2nd best next to the AMEX 2% card (but remember to spend minimum $9000 for the Ultramar one).

I heard of the new Scotia momentum Visa, but I'm not sure if it's a fee based one. If not, it may be good just for groceries, etc.

[angel_wing0]

scotia is $39 per year.

[thirtyone]

You shouldn't take the CalgaryBen comparison as gospel, though. there are sometimes other features to a card that make getting a lower cashback return actually better than a higher-paying card.

For example, the TD Gold Elite. If you have a Select Service account, the annual fee for this card is $0 plus one free supplementary card. So it becomes, essentially, a no-fee card. Second, the Gold Elite gets you a pretty damn good Auto Club membership that is more comprehensive than CAA Plus. They value this at $79, or $118 for a family.

So, even though on the CalgaryBen comparison this card seems like the loser at the bottom of the list, because it can be easily obtained with no-fee, it has no cap on your rebate, it is a Visa (therefore more accepted than Amex) and gives you the free Auto Club membership, it turns out that this one is one of the best cards out there.

My point is to not look just at the cash rebate you're getting back, but look at the card as a complete package.

[angel_wing0]

^ very good pt 31 about thr td gold elite.

[P1x44r]

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I'm also looking to dump my TD Emerald for a cash back credit card. Right now, it looks like it'll be either TD Gold Elite Visa or National Bank Canada Ultramar MasterCard. If I choose the first I'd have to maintain a balance of 5k in my TD checking account. I already maintain $3,000 there to avoid charges for my Infinity checking plan, so the bump isn't all that much.

I've never been a fan of MasterCard for some reason. Is it really less accepted than Visa? Also, does anyone know if NBC MasterCards are accepted down in Cuba? It's a Canadian bank, right?

What are your opinions on the two cards? Hoping this might help the OP out as well.

[angel_wing0]

if the place takes credit card, a credit card from any bank in the world is fine.

EG: a japan visa will work in us, canada, uk, iceland, xxxland as long as the vendor takes visa.

[P1x44r]

if the place takes credit card, a credit card from any bank in the world is fine.

EG: a japan visa will work in us, canada, uk, iceland, xxxland as long as the vendor takes visa.
Agreed, but this is not true for Cuba unfortunately. They will not accept any credit cards issued by US based banks. I learned this the hard way with my MBNA MasterCard a couple of years ago.

[angel_wing0]

Agreed, but this is not true for Cuba unfortunately. They will not accept any credit cards issued by US based banks. I learned this the hard way with my MBNA MasterCard a couple of years ago.

:eek: oh i never knew that

[Arcaneind]

Both of Capital One's Cash Back Master Cards are better than the National Bank Card.

Capital One Card
First $3000 at 0.5%
Anything Over $3000 at 1%
$0 fee

Cash Back = (first $3000*0.005)+((total spent per year - original $3000)*0.01)

Capital One Plus Card
First $10000 at 1%
Next $10000 at 1.5%
Anything Over $20000 at 2%
$59 fee

Cash Back =((first $10000*0.01)+(next $10000*0.015)+((total spent per year-original $20000)*0.02))-$59 fee

National Bank Ultramar Card
First $6000 at 0.25%
Next $3000 at 0.5%
Anything Over $9000 at 1.25%
$0 fee

Cash Back =((6000*0.0025)+(3000*0.005)+((H11-9000)*0.0125))

SO

Basic Capital One Card outperforms National Bank card until over $27,000 spent per year (unless you actually use it at Ultramar)

Basic Capital One Card outperforms Capital One PLUS card until over $21,000 spent per year (then Capital One PLUS really outperforms)

National Bank card barely outperforms the Capital One PLUS card until around spent $11,500 per year (then gets lost in the dust)

I was working on this earlier today after reading this review of the Canadian Cards http://www.milliondollarjourney.com/top-cash-back-credit-card-in-canada-ii-new-pick.htm

[P1x44r]

Capital One cards are not available to Quebec residents. :(

[Arcaneind]

I see that Calgary Ben says that the National Bank card isn't tiered... They would take the whole yearly total and apply it. I didn't see that written anywhere at the National Bank site. Also, the National Bank card is capped at $250.

If true, that would mean the NB Card outperforms the basic Capital One between $9000 and $27,000

If true, that would mean the NB Card outperforms the Capital One PLUS below $27,000

Also, the ScotiaBank Visa Card is dependant on your situation but outperforms the basic Capital One for my needs, even with it's fee.

[angel_wing0]

I see that Calgary Ben says that the National Bank card isn't tiered... They would take the whole yearly total and apply it. I didn't see that written anywhere at the National Bank site. Also, the National Bank card is capped at $250.

If true, that would mean the NB Card outperforms the basic Capital One between $9000 and $27,000

If true, that would mean the NB Card outperforms the Capital One PLUS below $27,000

Also, the ScotiaBank Visa Card is dependant on your situation but outperforms the basic Capital One for my needs, even with it's fee.

The NB CC is tiered in a way. If you spend less than 9k, it's tiered. If you spend more than 9k, you will get 1.25% back on your ENTIRE spending.

Everything depends on your annual spending...there is no outright card that is much superior than the other.

[P1x44r]

Thanks for the analysis Arcaneind. Since my annual spendings to be put on a CC are around $10,000-$15,000 it sounds like I will be pretty happy with a NB Ultramar

[teoconca]

I am using BMO Mosiak MC with $45 annually. If you apply thru Shell you would get better deal for the 1st 3 months. You can choose 'No Fee' one with less % cash back.
http://www3.bmo.com/mosaik/perform_features_cashback?&PREBUILT=PREADULTR&PUID=665
http://www.shell.ca/home/Framework?siteId=ca-en&FC2=/ca-en/html/iwgen/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/ca-en/html/iwgen/shell_for_motorists/cards/cards_shared/credit_cards.html

[Arcaneind]

Thanks for the analysis Arcaneind. Since my annual spendings to be put on a CC are around $10,000-$15,000 it sounds like I will be pretty happy with a NB Ultramar

I'm going with the CapitalOne Platinum Cash Back Plus Platinum MasterCard.

I've averaged out all PetroCan gas bills, grocery bills, my TD Visa and my wife's PC Fin Master Card for the last 2+ years. I plan on getting two new cards for us, ditching the others, and use them for as much as possible. With how much we spend, the CapitalOne makes most sense.

[brunes]

Agreed, but this is not true for Cuba unfortunately. They will not accept any credit cards issued by US based banks. I learned this the hard way with my MBNA MasterCard a couple of years ago.

I wonder, if Cuba won't accept an MBNA Canada card because the parent company is American, if they would accept a card issued by TD Bank in the US...

[Arcaneind]

I was surfing around trying to see if there was a list of known good/bad credit cards for Cuba. The one site I found said that it wasn't Cuba that blocks the US cards but it is the US blocking spending in Cuba by denying the use of their cards.

For some reason, the US blocking spending sounds far more correct to me. Why would the Cubians stop no-strings, gringo money from supporting their economy?

[dog_mumu]

I wonder, if Cuba won't accept an MBNA Canada card because the parent company is American, if they would accept a card issued by TD Bank in the US...

I am surprised so many people don't know about this. It's on the first page of every statement:

When planning trips outside Canada, please remember that transactions made in Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Myanmar (Burma), and Sudan will be declined.


I suppose you can read through the agreements of other cards to find out if they have similar policies.

[AllWheelDrift]

I wonder, if Cuba won't accept an MBNA Canada card because the parent company is American, if they would accept a card issued by TD Bank in the US...
It's not the fact that Cuba won't accept the card, it's the fact that American companies aren't allowed to do business with Cuba, therefor the TD Bank must reject any transactions from Cuba (or face the wrath of the US government.)

[boyoflondon]

Agreed, but this is not true for Cuba unfortunately. They will not accept any credit cards issued by US based banks. I learned this the hard way with my MBNA MasterCard a couple of years ago.

Its not that they wont accept them ..

Its that canadian cards issued by a US bank (MBNA, Citi, Capital One) wont work in Cuba as they are a sanctioned country by US.

Other countries where these cards wont work are Iran and Burma.

[angel_wing0]

so what about amex? i guess any amex wont work in cuba then...

[QTheNukes]

^ very good pt 31 about thr td gold elite.

I also went with this card, hard to beat, dropped CAA like a hot tomato! 1% not tiered! No limits. $5000.00 in the bank makes it free, plus many other bonus features. I just bought my new tv with it to extend the warranty by 1 year for no cost.

[P1x44r]

I just bought my new tv with it to extend the warranty by 1 year for no cost.
This sounds pretty good to me as I'm eyeing a new TV set currently. Not sure about having to keep $5,000 in my checking account to waive the fee though. I understand Select account comes with other benefits, but none (other than $99 annul fee waived for TD Gold Elite which I want) sound useful to me.

I do plan to change my habits and start funneling all of my purchases/bill payments though a cash back credit card instead of debit card as I currently do.

Another option I was thinking about was to downgrade my current TD Infinity checking account to Value Plus to free up another $1,000. This would give me extra $3,000 to invest instead of keeping it frozen in a checking account shall I go with Select. Then I can go with a card such as NB Ultramar.

What do you guys think? Which way is better?

[Arcaneind]

I also went with this card, hard to beat, dropped CAA like a hot tomato! 1% not tiered! No limits. $5000.00 in the bank makes it free, plus many other bonus features. I just bought my new tv with it to extend the warranty by 1 year for no cost.

Purchase Security and Extended Warranty Protection is on a ton of cards, including many outright free cards. I think that people forget it's there.

[goks]

I'm the OP of this thread and have just had a chance to read everything (thanks for all the replies and the deviation to Cuba related info - interesting tidbits there too...)

Based on everything written, it seems like the NB Ultramar card is the one to go with for my first $27,000 (to earn $250 cash back) and then after that - I should use another card for whatever other spending. (I guess my existing CT Cash Advantage or CIBC Dividend).

I don't have a TD Bank account so the TD Elite Gold card may not work in my situation because I don't think I want to open another account since I already use my PCF account for everything and keep my CIBC account at minimum balance to avoid service fees (only for e-mail money transfers).

When opening new cc's - do you guys do the Online apps or do you call the CSR's? What works better and ensures you get better credit limits?

[angel_wing0]

both are the same afaik...u fill out the same info on an online application that a rep asks during a phone call.

[thirtyone]

Totally hijacking this thread since the main topic has run to its conclusion, but the second topic (using cards in Cuba) was kind of interesting.

Wanted to add that, though it may not be obvious, CUETS MasterCards (those issued by most credit unions) are also affected by the American embargo rules. CUETS is now a subsidiary of MBNA Canada which itself is a subsidiary of the Bank of America, and thus subject to the embargos in Cuba, Iran and all those other places.

This is an old article, but it has the info:

http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2007/11/01/credit-union.html

[coldpower27]

What about CitiBank Enrich Platinum.. It's 1% Card capped at $500 which is $50K per year spending...

Has Price Protection and Warranty Extension with no Annual Fee.

[Sanchez]

As others have said, the best card really depends on your spending, and even what you spend it on, in the case of cards like the Scotia Momentum Visa which has different rates for purchases such as gas and groceries.

To see this graphically, here is a chart of the "dominant" cash back cards from 0 to 15,000 in spending, assuming 30% spent on gas, groceries, drugs and recurring payments (for the Scotia Visa):

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6/imagel.png

Bump up the amount of purchases eligible for the Scotia 2% cashback to 70% and the picture changes:

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8358/image2hcr.png

For big spenders, here is a graph to 50k (at 25% gas/groceries spending):

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9247/image3iao.png

You can play with the SS here (http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pSLFVctPlLIiDRPhdHPb8BQ).

[angel_wing0]

nice charts :D

[Sanchez]

Yeah, one thing that sticks out is that the Costco AMEX platinum is pretty decent over a large range of spending - assuming you already have a Costco membership (the graphs assume this). It is ahead of the fee-based cards initially, and passes all the 1% cards around $11,000.

The Ultramar stays ahead of it until about 20,000 - but at somewhat lower spending the Costco card is still very close (averaging a $20 deficit only in the 9k to 20k range). After 20k, it is the best card until the Citibank card passes it around 30k. However, it pulls away quickly from the Ultramar card in that range since that card is capped. This is important if you don't know how much you are going to spend exactly (who does?).

If you estimate 20k in spending, it is better to choose the Costco card because you won't loose much if you don't make it, but you stand to gain more if you overshoot.

Overall, I'd say that the ultramar card is the best for people sure to spend more than $9,000 - but fairly certain to spend significantly less than $20,000. If you're not sure you'll make $9,000, any of the straight 1% no-fee cards (MBNA PremierRewards, Citi Enrich [Platinum], Citi something) are best.

If you're around $20,000 in spending, the Costco AMEX is probably for you, assuming AMEX works for you (it is accepted at fewer places). If you're pushing over $30,000 in annual spending, the Cap One Cash Back Plus dominates the current crop of cards.

One thing not mentioned in this thread yet is that the Costco AMEX has a 0.5% cash back bonus if you carry a balance. Evidently, if you carry a large balance regularly anyway, this really boost this card, as the following 15k and 50k graph shows (click for full image):


0 to 15,000:

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7711/15kbalance.th.png (http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?image=15kbalance.png)

0 to 50,000:

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4815/50kbalance.th.png (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=50kbalance.png)

If you going to carry any kind of balance for any length of time, however, you'd be much better off with a low rate card than worrying about 0.5% cash back.

Even if you don't carry a balance, however, you can still game the system by carrying a small balance month to month (say $1) and immediately paying off purchases so as to incur interest changes. If you are willing to do this, the Costco card probably dominates over a large range of spending amounts (you also have to adjust for lost interest since you have to pay a bit earlier in this case, but this is probably minor given current rates - say around a 0.1% penalty).

[Drew_W]

The Ultramar Mastercard from National Bank as you mentioned would be 2nd best next to the AMEX 2% card (but remember to spend minimum $9000 for the Ultramar one).

That depends how much you spend, since Capital One has a card that has a 2% tier above $20k, and the $10-20k tier is at 1.5% which already beats the Ultramar.

$59 fee, but again it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you could make $200 but had to pay $50, or could make $100 with no investment, you'd obviously be better off in the first scenario. Don't become so jaded with this 'no fee' business unless you're a small small spender. Consider ALL your options, then decide.

[halflife150]

One thing not mentioned in this thread yet is that the Costco AMEX has a 0.5% cash back bonus if you carry a balance. Evidently, if you carry a large balance regularly anyway, this really boost this card, as the following 15k and 50k graph show

If you carry a balance you would always be better off with a low rate card then high rate with rewards.

Amex card only worth considering if you already have a Costco membership, otherwise you would treat this card as having a $55 fee, the cost of Costco membership.

[EugW]

The Costco card isn't really a "no fee" card in my opinion, since you have to pay the Costco membership fee. If you're gonna shop at Costco anyway then that's fine, but many people don't.

P.S. My no fee card gives me 2% cash after the first $5000. That 2% doesn't require carrying a balance. (Actually, it's 2.5% if you carry a balance, but I never do.) However, it's no longer offered.

[Drew_W]

Yeah, one thing that sticks out is that the Costco AMEX platinum is pretty decent over a large range of spending. It is ahead of the fee-based cards initially, and passes all the 1% cards around $11,000.

The Ultramar stays ahead of it until about 20,000 - but at somewhat lower spending the Costco card is still very close (averaging a $20 deficit only in the 9k to 20k range). After 20k, it is the best card until the Citibank card passes it around 30k. However, it pulls away quickly from the Ultramar card in that range since that card is capped. This is important if you don't know how much you are going to spend exactly (who does?).

If you estimate 20k in spending, it is better to choose the Costco card because you won't loose much if you don't make it, but you stand to gain more if you overshoot.

Overall, I'd say that the ultramar card is the best for people sure to spend more than $9,000 - but fairly certain to spend significantly less than $20,000. If you're not sure you'll make $9,000, any of the straight 1% no-fee cards (MBNA PremierRewards, Citi Enrich [Platinum], Citi something) are best.

If you're around $20,000 in spending, the Costco AMEX is probably for you, assuming AMEX works for you (it is accepted at fewer places). If you're pushing over $30,000 in annual spending, the Cap One Cash Back Plus dominates the current crop of cards.

One thing not mentioned in this thread yet is that the Costco AMEX has a 0.5% cash back bonus if you carry a balance. Evidently, if you carry a large balance regularly anyway, this really boost this card, as the following 15k and 50k graph show (click for full image):


0 to 15,000:

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7711/15kbalance.th.png (http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?image=15kbalance.png)

0 to 50,000

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4815/50kbalance.th.png (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=50kbalance.png)

Even if you don't carry a balance, you can still game the system by carrying a small balance month to month (say $1) and immediately paying off purchases so as to incur interest changes. If you are willing to do this, the Costco card probably dominates over a large range of spending amounts (you also have to adjust for lost interest since you have to pay a bit earlier in this case, but this is probably minor given current rates - say around a 0.1% penalty).

Can we compare apples to apples and show the graphs for all the cards considering we pay the balance in full every month?

[bird4]

Am I colour blind? Because I don't see the orange line for the Citi Enrich MC.

[Sanchez]

Can we compare apples to apples and show the graphs for all the cards considering we pay the balance in full every month?

Yes, the graphs in my post (http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8502900&postcount=32) prior to that one assume that you pay the balances in full.

[Sanchez]

Am I colour blind? Because I don't see the orange line for the Citi Enrich MC.

The Citi Enrich is identical to the MBNA 1% card until 25,000, after which it is identical to the Ultramar (both are capped at $250).

But actually the card shown is the Enrich Platinum, and this is identical to the MBNA card throughout the rage of 0-50k, so the lines are on top of each other and the enrich loses. I guess I could add a dollar to the Enrich to ensure its graph is shown. Or I could just remove it since it is "dominated" by the other options (e.g. the MBNA card is always equal or better - being better after 50k in spending due to the $500 cap of the Enrich platinum).

[Sanchez]

If you carry a balance you would always be better off with a low rate card then high rate with rewards.

Amex card only worth considering if you already have a Costco membership, otherwise you would treat this card as having a $55 fee, the cost of Costco membership.

You are right that if you carry a large balance a row rate card is much better - I will adjust my post. However, if you don't carry a balance you can still "game the system" with the Costco card by carrying a nominal (very small) balance, while paying off purchases as made - or perhaps even ahead of time - in order to avoid any significant interest.

You are right about the Costco fee - I was assuming that you have a Costco membership to make this worthwhile. I will update the post.

[mix1_home]

What about CitiBank Enrich Platinum.. It's 1% Card capped at $500 which is $50K per year spending...

Has Price Protection and Warranty Extension with no Annual Fee.

I use this card because I usually have balance of 200+- per month and 600-700+- in 3-4 month in a year, which overall spending far less than 5000 per year. This is ideal for me. However there is a trick. Cash is paid back only once per year at which time you should not have any balance or otherwise you lose it.

[boyoflondon]

I use this card because I usually have balance of 200+- per month and 600-700+- in 3-4 month in a year, which overall spending far less than 5000 per year. This is ideal for me. However there is a trick. Cash is paid back only once per year at which time you should not have any balance or otherwise you lose it.

:confused:

You will always receive your chq at the end of the year provided your account is NOT in the OCL/delinquent status.