Starbucks brewing equipment sale

[txenglan]

Without a whole lot of pomp and circumstance, Starbucks has just launched another brewing sale. A number of months ago, Starbucks had a similar in-store sale to the one that started today. Please see the old thread for details from previous discussion: http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=669678

I am not entirely clear if there is a set percentage discount across the board but I picked up a Delonghi Magnifica 4400 today for $649 (btw, they will also throw in a free bag of beans with the purchase - maybe more if you can manage to chat them up a bit ;)). I had meant to do so last time but had thought that I would want to get into more powerful/hackable machines like the Rancilio Silvia. I think the 4400 will do me just fine for now.

Starbucks normally sells the 4400 for $1300 or so (which seems a bit excessive). The US price seems to have been adjusted as per the online store price for this unit: http://www.starbucksstore.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=692309

If someone else figures out if there is a set percentage discount off all equipment please post the details. Be wary of employees who are ignorant such as the one at the first location I went to today, who not only was annoying in not listening to my questions (and treating me like I knew nothing while being contradictory in admitting that he himself knows nothing about the 4400), insisted on all sorts of erroneous, garbage information wrt the details of the 4400 and even gave me the wrong price (a higher one $799) which almost made me give up on getting the 4400 altogether). All this while claiming that, "this sale is even better than the last one!"....which, based on the price he pulled out of his bum would have actually indicated that the current sale would be inferior to the last one... :-0

At the store where I eventually found competent people, as expected, I did see that all the rest of their machines had the little red stickers that show the sale prices.

Good luck and happy brewing! :D

[txenglan]

1,564 views and no comments.....you're welcome! :-0

[Hot Ice]

it's interesting, but I guess we're not as coffee enthusiast as you are.

[bhp]

1,564 views and no comments.....you're welcome! :-0

If you put $649 coffee maker in the title, i wouldn't even bother looking at this thread. Most of us saw "brewing sale" and thought there was a deal.

In a recession, it's difficult to find a normal person paying over $700 for a coffee maker.

[galanz]

Thanks, I need a new burr grinder.

[txenglan]

it's interesting, but I guess we're not as coffee enthusiast as you are.

Many people here are. It's just that they aren't bothering to contribute.

If you put $649 coffee maker in the title, i wouldn't even bother looking at this thread. Most of us saw "brewing sale" and thought there was a deal.

In a recession, it's difficult to find a normal person paying over $700 for a coffee maker.

There is a deal. It is staring you in the face. Show me where you can get this unit for less money (or anywhere close to this price for that matter). As for the recession, unless a person loses their job (or is worried about losing their job), it is all psychological. The state of the economy has been this way for over a year. The media finally uses the word "recession" and everyone goes nuts.

Incidentally, this is not a "coffee maker" per se. Also, I indicated that other units are on sale for similar % discounts.

[ScoFF]

A bag of beans for a $700 coffee machine? That's like buying a Lexus and getting a free set of car mats.

[txenglan]

A bag of beans for a $700 coffee machine? That's like buying a Lexus and getting a free set of car mats.

Ummmmm....noooooooo, it is like buying a Lexus for HALF PRICE and getting free tires and rims thrown in...:rolleyes:

[HughG]

i think its just because starbucks and hot deal dont go together LOL

[cheal_lin]

Although I already set my heart on Rancilio Silvia, yet it was a very nice surprise to see this post regarding Expresso Machines! You dont see that a lot on Redflagdeals.

[baggio4eva]

Great post, been waiting for this sale to buy a new grinder.

[afong56]

Starbucks normally sells the 4400 for $1300 or so (which seems a bit excessive). The US price seems to have been adjusted as per the online store price for this unit: http://www.starbucksstore.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=692309

fyi, the price does seem ridiculous, but if you drop by cayne's warehouse, they're selling a similar model for $1300 (discounted from $2000, if you can believe that), so imho, i agree--this is a sweet deal.

thanks op for posting this, and ignore those naysayers. . .

[Cooper Moon]

Thanks OP

My wife picked up the Saeco Via Venezia for 200. I think it is normally 300 or so. Its an excellent machine for espresso as long as you have a proper grinder.

[QuadESL63]

In a recession, it's difficult to find a normal person paying over $700 for a coffee maker.

Really? I disagree... just look at the Denon warehouse sales thread. Folks have no problem plunging hundreds and even thousands on stuffs :lol:

A deal is a deal... I may not be looking at a great espresso machine but someone might ;)

(BTW, is there any good espresso machine in the sales? Or, should I go for a professional unit instead and forget about anything Starbucks? Don't want to get one from Starbucks just for the name but not the quality...)

[Yololo67]

Mmmm, coffee.

Nice deal OP and thanks for the headsup. Maybe I can milk...erm...grind a few bucks from my tax return and get one. ;)

Not to hijack, but I'm looking for a decent grinder too. Currently I'm using a B&D chopper. Yeah I know, I'm a heathen. I would LOVE a decent burr grinder.

[radar78]

I actually have this machine and I love it. It is the first one I ever purchased about a year ago so I can not really compare the quality of coffee against other high end machines. Although expensive if you drink alot of quality coffee that you would normally purchase from places like Starbucks then it does not take long to pay for itself. Two of my friends ended up purchasing the same machine after having a few coffees from my machine.

[kev_eh]

This is a good deal for an automatic coffee maker that includes a built-in burr grinder, but if you're going to spend $650 and you're a newbie espresso snob, you wouldn't buy DeLonghi. For the same price you can get a Rancilio Silvia, which is the standard for high-end espresso machines. Also, I would not know what to expect with Starbucks customer service on product such as this. I'd rather buy from a reputable dealer who can not only provide after-sales service, but also can show you how to get the most out of the machine.

For me, even at half-off of $1300, I would stay away. My 2 cents...

Thanks for posting, though, OP.

[txenglan]

Thanks very much to all for the recent comments. It has made my day (and it's a rainy one here in Ottawa) and renewed my faith in the RFD community. It is comforting to know that we aren't here only to discuss electronics, car and furniture-related deals. I knew there were people out there who would be interested in other deals as well.

There has been some commentary here wrt this unit being supported by Starbucks or somehow made/engineered/altered/customized by them. As far as I know, this is not really the case. This unit is made and supported by Delonghi for Starbucks in the sense that you have to supposedly buy it from a Starbucks location.

So far, I am pretty happy with the 4400 although I have no experience with other intermediate to high-end models. I had been thinking about the Rancillio but I had read about a lot of finickiness in getting it customized (which is both an attraction and a repulsion to me). On the one hand, I would love to "hack" a machine, do the geeky "temperature surfing" and all that jazz, on the other hand, I don't want to have to screw around with a temperamental espresso prima donna at 6:45 AM when I am cranky and wanting my fix before rushing off to work. I do see myself eventually getting a Rancillio for the weekends :)

PS. I also forgot to mention that I was told (at the location where I bought the 4400) that if I ended up not being happy with the shots from this unit, they would gladly refund me or allow for an in-store exchange. The amount of time I had the unit didn't seem to matter to them but I'm assuming 30 days would be reasonable. Something to keep in mind for those on the fence, thinking of buying any of their machines. Try one out worry free.

[MacBuster]

Is not the Rancilio a semi-auto, whereas this is a super-auto?

Two totally difference machines.

I've gotten quite busy with life lately, and my semi-auto just sits there. I need a super-auto for the week.

[nikotine24]

The op txenglan posted a great deal here for super automatic espresso machines for which it is very difficult to get a good sale. These machines are extremely sophisticated and mechanically complicated, which explains their high price. $650 is a smoking deal for a machine like this.

Having said, some RFDers simply don't care about coffee or understand the market price for a machine like this. They should just keep their mouths shut.

Most coffee geeks will prefer a semi-automatic machine like a Rancilio Silvia and separate grinder, which will give superior results, but only with some learning and effort. For many people, they are better off with a super automatic machine if they are willing to invest some money.

For myself, I got a Nespresso machine for its simple operation a few months ago when there was a deal at Home Outfitters. But if I hadn't gotten that, I would be jumping on this deal.

Thanks op!

[afong56]

This is a good deal for an automatic coffee maker that includes a built-in burr grinder, but if you're going to spend $650 and you're a newbie espresso snob, you wouldn't buy DeLonghi. For the same price you can get a Rancilio Silvia, which is the standard for high-end espresso machines. Also, I would not know what to expect with Starbucks customer service on product such as this. I'd rather buy from a reputable dealer who can not only provide after-sales service, but also can show you how to get the most out of the machine.

For me, even at half-off of $1300, I would stay away. My 2 cents...

Thanks for posting, though, OP.

really? i thought the rancilio silvia was the entry to mid level for a decent machine, not even close to high-end.

not to mention, a new rancilio silvia plus a proper grinder is definitely more than $650 cdn. . .there's a guy selling a used rancilio, plus an entry level grinder for about $650, here on rfd.

as someone else said, can't compare a superauto to the machines a true coffee snob would use--but don't forget, all of those people drinking americanos, ristrettos, lattes, etc. at starbucks are consuming products of superautos. . .

[rf134a]

This is a good deal for an automatic coffee maker that includes a built-in burr grinder, but if you're going to spend $650 and you're a newbie espresso snob, you wouldn't buy DeLonghi. For the same price you can get a Rancilio Silvia, which is the standard for high-end espresso machines. Also, I would not know what to expect with Starbucks customer service on product such as this. I'd rather buy from a reputable dealer who can not only provide after-sales service, but also can show you how to get the most out of the machine.

For me, even at half-off of $1300, I would stay away. My 2 cents...

Thanks for posting, though, OP.

Silvia the the standard for entry level espresso machines. It is generally considered to be the best starter machine but there is no opinion when it comes to the high end. Why yes, $750 is considered to be the starting point for good espresso machines.

The best machines have double boilers or heat exchangers. $14,000 for a single group machine is not unheard of.

Is not the Rancilio a semi-auto, whereas this is a super-auto?

Two totally difference machines.

I've gotten quite busy with life lately, and my semi-auto just sits there. I need a super-auto for the week.

I do believe it is the super-automatic. There's also the Delonghi Rialto super-automatic that has been marked down to $950 from $2100. Or the barista could've written a random number on top of the tag...

The review for the Rialto 4500 is here: http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/delonghirialto4500
The review for the Magnifica 4400 is here: http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/delonghimagnifica4400

[HowEver]

A bag of beans for a $700 coffee machine? That's like buying a Lexus and getting a free set of car mats.

Except they won't throw in the car mats...

[hothummer]

I bought a Barista machine a few years ago when they were reduced from $450 to $129. This machine rocks.

I had a small piece break off and called Starbucks Cust Service thinking they would just send me a new piece. Well, they are sending me a brand new machine!!

Starbucks ROCKS!!!

P.S. Lexus does throw in free car mats.. Just ask. I got some with my 08 that I bought 6 months ago from Erin Park.

[tonyso68]

OK, with the Rancilio Silvia post, should I buy this one or not? local starbucks has only one 4400 left!!!
............
................
help!!!

[FusionSenses]

I got a Nuova Simonelli Traditional Machines single group machine from ecm.bc.ca for $3000+ 4 years ago, but that's a commercial grade made from Italy.

[dgs]

One thing to bear in mind with Superautos - they are very convenient in terms of producing a fairly consistent product quickly and easily but they do have to be kept scrupulously clean to avoid problems down the road. The major thing to look at it with a superauto is how easy it is to clean - maybe the OP can post on that aspect for this machine.

I would not say Silvia is an entry level machine for a semi-auto in fact - to clarify it is probably the entry level for a pro-sumer unit -there are a lot of cheaper (and inferior) entry level consumer machines out there by Krups etc that will not last as long or give you as good an end result. I agree there is a certain learning curve to using Silvia however.

[honest thief]

Kudos to the OP. I'm actually looking for a killer brewing machine.

[likwidsix]

I own both the ESAM4400 and the older EAM3400 from Delonghi. They are very similar machines and the 1 button touch for espresso is very convenient. However, I personally prefer the less expensive 3400 due to the manual froth wand. The 4400 has an attachable milk container, but I find it takes more time to use and to clean. The only complaint I could think of with the machines is the coffee does not come out super hot. For a very hot espresso you need a machine built with brass or copper, which normally run in the thousands of dollars.

In summary i think these machines are great for the price.

[txenglan]

The op txenglan posted a great deal here for super automatic espresso machines for which it is very difficult to get a good sale. These machines are extremely sophisticated and mechanically complicated, which explains their high price. $650 is a smoking deal for a machine like this.

Thanks op!

Thanks for your kind words and great post btw. I'm learning new things just by reading comments in this thread.

.... The major thing to look at it with a superauto is how easy it is to clean - maybe the OP can post on that aspect for this machine.



I'll certainly provide some feedback on my experience with cleaning this unit, once I have had about another week with it. So far, I managed to get the inside of it dirty by putting grinds into the chute before the machine was turned on. I had been excited and had missed that little bit of information, which is clearly provided in the manual.

In having done a cursory examination of the mechanics of this unit, I am in complete agreement that cleaning is going to be crucial to keeping this thing from having issues down the road but on the other hand, it does look like it can take quite a bit of abuse.

The owner of the Silvia that is up for sale ---> http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=696084 ...did quite a bit of maintenance on the inside of his unit but it sounds as if the internal complexity is very much reduced as compared to the 4400. Something to be expected from a non-super unit. To be honest, the simplicity of the Silvia is another thing that attracted me to it. Again, if the Magnifica doesn't pan out over the next week or so, I'll be first in line to buy that Silvia (if it is still available).

[txenglan]

However, I personally prefer the less expensive 3400 due to the manual froth wand.


Yes. I wondered about that aspect of this machine....that type of wand would have been nice. This one is OK but because it is so rigid, you have to be careful about how you do the frothing and it limits the range of motion you can use. I'll get used to it or will just go back to frothing the way I used to. I completely screwed up on frothing this morning and created a terrible cappuccino :lol:

[nikotine24]

OK, with the Rancilio Silvia post, should I buy this one or not? local starbucks has only one 4400 left!!!
............
................
help!!!

To those who are considering whether to go for a super-automatic (like the Delonghi) or a semi-automatic (like the Rancilio Silvia), the key question is whether you want to spend some effort in order to get the best quality espresso, or if you prefer to keep things simple.

For a super-automatic, you just load the beans and press a button.

For a semi-automatic, there are a lot of things to learn and do and it really requires some dedication to get the best out of the machine. I'm talking here about always having fresh whole coffee beans (not the stuff in silos at the supermarket, but from specialty stores), buying and calibrating the right grinder, learning how to fill and tamp the machine with the grounds, etc. If you are not prepared to do this, you're better off with a super-automatic machine that only requires a few button pushes.

For people considering a super automatic, I think the Nespresso system is also worth considering. It's a pod system where the coffee is pre-ground and sealed to preserve freshness. You use one pod for one shot of espresso.

The downsides are that pods are somewhat expensive at 59 cents, the only source is from Nespresso (internet order or from the Nespresso Boutiques), and you are limited to the 16 blends that are available only from Nespresso (no third-party manufacturers). Also, the spent pods create a environmental waste. However, the upside is that the quality is quite good, possibly better than from super automatics, the 16 blends offer a good variety of flavours, and the results are extremely consistent. Mechanically speaking, the machines are quite simple, require less maintenance, and are less prone to failure than super-automatics, and they only cost about $300.

I have bought a Nespresso for the office a few months ago and this has led me to believe that the results are better than what the average semi-automatic machine user will get at home. The users who have good machines (Gaggias, Silvias, and up), good grinders, and who KNOW what they are doing will get better results. But for most people, using a semi-automatic machine is a hit-or-miss proposition. Since making espresso is such a finicky affair, sometimes they get good results, and sometimes the coffee is almost undrinkable. It is not so easy to get consistency unless you are prepared for some learning curve.

More info about Nespresso here (I don't work for Nespresso!):

http://www.coffeereview.com/article.cfm?ID=152

[leoben]

I bought 4400 during their Christmas brewing sale ($650+tax). I believe they offered additional discount for demo models but I got the new one. For people who don't have much time in the morning to make a fantastic cup of espresso, you cannot go wrong with 4400. I've used about 4 cans (250g) of illy beans and a couple bags of starbucks beans and I've yet to run into any problem. I haven't really done any cleaning aside from occasional decalcifying, and cleaning the infuser once. Ever since I've bought this machine I rarely go to starbucks.. as this machine + illy beans make better coffee than what starbucks offers me!

One downside is the weak steam wand. makes it harder to produce microfoam..

[MacBuster]

I wonder how this compares to this deal:

http://www.1stincoffee.com/refurb-f60.htm

(yes, I have an amerifriend).

[falconhob]

I picked up the Delonghi Rialto 4500 with the "one touch latte" feature about 18 months ago from Starbucks. If you pop the extra few bux (and enjoy lattes) go for the Rialto. It's made us 4 per day plus many more for friends and family, including the iced latte's in the summer, without missing a beat. You do have to clean the milk container once a week, and the machine every few months, but that's peanuts for maintenance. From what I've heard from others, SB supports the products they sell VERY well, and this Delonghi has proven bulletproof.

[afong56]

I wonder how this compares to this deal:

http://www.1stincoffee.com/refurb-f60.htm

(yes, I have an amerifriend).

that's a good looking unit. . .

it's a refurb, but if they are anything like apple and their refurb units, then you're golden.

i definitely like the size of the water container--impressive

[Fritz the Cat]

I have found a vendor on eBay (USA) for Refurbed units. I bought this one for 645 USD and it has the milk frother built in. Its quik to clean up and the refurbs have an international warranty from Delonghi (Canada also).
I have a few of these, (work, home, cottage) and have given them to some good customers as well. I have no problems with any of them and the temperature is user programmable for those that want a hotter cup-a-joe.

see http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=370168836551

[MacBuster]

I picked up the Delonghi Rialto 4500 with the "one touch latte" feature about 18 months ago from Starbucks. If you pop the extra few bux (and enjoy lattes) go for the Rialto. It's made us 4 per day plus many more for friends and family, including the iced latte's in the summer, without missing a beat. You do have to clean the milk container once a week, and the machine every few months, but that's peanuts for maintenance. From what I've heard from others, SB supports the products they sell VERY well, and this Delonghi has proven bulletproof.

So does that mean the Rialto foams the milk AND mixes it with the espresso, etc automatically?

It's about $300 more, too!

[stealth]

Is not the Rancilio a semi-auto, whereas this is a super-auto?

Two totally difference machines.
I've gotten quite busy with life lately, and my semi-auto just sits there. I need a super-auto for the week.

Yes, 2 very different machines. Apples and oranges.

really? i thought the rancilio silvia was the entry to mid level for a decent machine, not even close to high-end.

not to mention, a new rancilio silvia plus a proper grinder is definitely more than $650 cdn. . .there's a guy selling a used rancilio, plus an entry level grinder for about $650, here on rfd.

as someone else said, can't compare a superauto to the machines a true coffee snob would use--but don't forget, all of those people drinking americanos, ristrettos, lattes, etc. at starbucks are consuming products of superautos. . .
Very often "high end" or "entry level" is based on the buyers budget expectations. Compared to a $100. Krups, someone might consider a Silvia to be "pro-sumer" or "high end",as its the upper end of what they could see someone spending for an espresso machine...after all, how many people buy restaurant grade 220v, plumbed in, multi-group head, $4k espresso machines for home use? Only a few terminally single coffee geeks on the web, is my guess.


It all comes down to what you can justify for an espresso machine..is it $200., $600., or $2400. thats going to determine where you rank the machines in preference. I'm not even sure that someone that thinks Starbucks is great coffee, would be able to discern the differences between a $200. and $2400. machine.

In another example, some would consider a $70k Corvette a high end "dream" car....someone else looking at a Bugatti Veyron ($1.7M) or even a $300k Murcielago would consider it an entry level sports car.

[a2vr6]

If you put $649 coffee maker in the title, i wouldn't even bother looking at this thread. Most of us saw "brewing sale" and thought there was a deal.

In a recession, it's difficult to find a normal person paying over $700 for a coffee maker.



You have to look at weighing your options:

Buy Tim Horton's Swill at $1.47 a day (Minimum for most people, many have several a day) 365 x $1.47 = $536.55

OR

Buy a FANTASTIC coffee maker that makes amazing coffee (you get to use your own beans freshly ground each day). this is not even including the fact your won't have to waste your time in a drive thru/Line and even potentially buying Tim's nasty lard laden "treats". :|

[sb_tor]

some people mentioned the comparatively inexpensive starbucks barista machine. Any comments about that? Is it part of this sale?

[bythehour]

I bought the 4400 a few months ago, after much research. For the price, it's a deal. It produces consistent quality brew, is easy to clean (one-button operation) and is quite easy to clean. My only gripe is that it doesn't have a water-in line (or at least, I haven't bothered to find it).

Keep in mind that there is a difference between Delonghi and Delonghi Magnifica. The Magnifica line has its own customer service, and is supposed to be top notch (haven't had to use it, yet).

After looking around for a looooong time, I was hard pressed to find another automatic for the same price (paid $650). The "name" brands seem to go at least $1,000 plus.

[afong56]

Yes, 2 very different machines. Apples and oranges.


Very often "high end" or "entry level" is based on the buyers budget expectations. Compared to a $100. Krups, someone might consider a Silvia to be "pro-sumer" or "high end",as its the upper end of what they could see someone spending for an espresso machine...after all, how many people buy restaurant grade 220v, plumbed in, multi-group head, $4k espresso machines for home use? Only a few terminally single coffee geeks on the web, is my guess.


It all comes down to what you can justify for an espresso machine..is it $200., $600., or $2400. thats going to determine where you rank the machines in preference. I'm not even sure that someone that thinks Starbucks is great coffee, would be able to discern the differences between a $200. and $2400. machine.

In another example, some would consider a $70k Corvette a high end "dream" car....someone else looking at a Bugatti Veyron ($1.7M) or even a $300k Murcielago would consider it an entry level sports car.

no question it depends on the user

the rancilio is a great unit, with hackabililty and a very strong user group that swear by it.

if one were looking for a semi-auto, it would be an excellent buy--i'm definitely not knocking it.

the delonghi 4400, as you admit, cannot be compared with the rancilio--different purposes, different results

[Blitzo]

$50 coffee maker vs. $650 coffee maker... Hmmm. I make coffee for 2 people per day vs. 400 people per day... Hmm. Maybe I should buy a building instead of a house next time I'm in the market for a new home. :lol:

Its a great deal for those who would need one. Thanks anyways op.

[a2vr6]

$50 coffee maker vs. $650 coffee maker... Hmmm. I make coffee for 2 people per day vs. 400 people per day... Hmm. Maybe I should buy a building instead of a house next time I'm in the market for a new home. :lol:

Its a great deal for those who would need one. Thanks anyways op.

Hmmm, I guess you haven't had a fantastic cup of coffee...hmm Should I get a A Chevy Aveo or a Ferrari? :lol: You get the picture right? The analogy of getting a building compared to a house does not make sense though so I can't comment on that one. :D

[alwayslookingforadeal]

starbucks usually has this sale once or twice per year and they usually sell out pretty quickly. I wouldn't wait too long if you want it. I've been tempted many times to pick it up, but I'm still using my old barista. I'm very finicky about my espresso and will probably move on to the rancillo eventually. If you can afford it, it would be good just to have something like this when you have guests over because it's one hell of a pain in the ass trying to make 5-6 espresso's or cappuccino with a manual machine.

[lsafrany]

I am not sure about this paticular model of automatic, but I stopped going to Starbucks after they switched to automatics for their retail operations. IMO, the coffee just wasn't as good as the manual machines in the hands of a seasoned barista. I have an old-school barista machine and love it - when it goes I'll get a Silvia. I do need a new burr grinder though, so I will have to check it out before they are all gone. Thanks OP.

[eelfliw]

it would be good just to have something like this when you have guests over because it's one hell of a pain in the ass trying to make 5-6 espresso's or cappuccino with a manual machine.
Sorry but I beg to differ. Starbucks themselves used to use manual machines to make espressos despite having long line ups.

As long as the barista is competent and consistent in adding the coffee grinds and tamping the grinds in the portafilter, manual machines produces very consistent and great espresso. The key is to have 2 groupheads. One one's brewing, the other one is being cleaned and tamped. With some practice, a good barista can keep the manual machine running almost non-stop with < 5 sec break while changing the grouphead.

The key to great espresso is not only in the machine but also in the Barista.

[MacBuster]

Starbucks .... having long line ups.

... barista is competent and consistent in adding the coffee grinds and tamping the grinds in the portafilter,.... The key is to have 2 groupheads. .... With some practice, a good barista .... < 5 sec break .

The key to great espresso is .... in the Barista.

Uh, I'm pretty sure you made a pretty solid argument against your own point.

The problem is people do not want to practice, they don't want to fly around their kitchen like a pro-barista, they don't want <5 second breaks while they have guest, they don't want to invest in two group heads. Starbucks went to super-autos to alleviate some of the consistency/training issues and wait times that people also want to avoid at home.

[mildlyaddicted]

Sorry but I beg to differ. Starbucks themselves used to use manual machines to make espressos despite having long line ups.

As long as the barista is competent and consistent in adding the coffee grinds and tamping the grinds in the portafilter, manual machines produces very consistent and great espresso. The key is to have 2 groupheads. One one's brewing, the other one is being cleaned and tamped. With some practice, a good barista can keep the manual machine running almost non-stop with < 5 sec break while changing the grouphead.

The key to great espresso is not only in the machine but also in the Barista.

True, and they quit using them due to employees getting carpal tunnel syndrome. One of the bonuses to using the manual machines is you can control the strength of the espresso a little better. But, myself along with most people, don't feel like putting in that effort 6AM when you just want a good coffee for the road.

[stealth]

Sorry but I beg to differ. Starbucks themselves used to use manual machines to make espressos despite having long line ups.

As long as the barista is competent and consistent in adding the coffee grinds and tamping the grinds in the portafilter, manual machines produces very consistent and great espresso. The key is to have 2 groupheads. One one's brewing, the other one is being cleaned and tamped. With some practice, a good barista can keep the manual machine running almost non-stop with < 5 sec break while changing the grouphead.

The key to great espresso is not only in the machine but also in the Barista.

Why do you think they have long lineups, lol?

I'm a semi-auto kind of guy myself, but have to admit for a dinner party or what not, a superauto is prob best. Even SB would take 10 + mins or so to make all 5 coffees for your guests, so by the time you are ready to serve, the first one would be cold. Secondly, I cant think of a single affordable dual grouphead machine for the consumer market that would save a couple mins in your example, so I dont think thats a solution for most people.

The trick I have found is better temperature control (through a PID) and a solid unit that retains heat well and has a boiler sized for multiple drinks.

The reason I made the switch from a Starbucks Barista model, and a DeLonghi Semi auto to a Rancilio Silvia was that after every single drink made from these first 2 machines, the temps would drop too low and you have to wait a couple mins for them to get back up in order to make the next drink.:( They just dont get hot enough, and there is no way to bump up the heat to compensate. The PID nails the temp so it doesnt fluctuate much, so you can make all your shots, then switch to frothing at a nice high temp, and froth in 2-3 drink batches. IMO the PID should be standard equipment on a Silvia, or for that matter any sub-$1000. pump driven machine.

[bythehour]

I'm a semi-auto kind of guy myself, but have to admit for a dinner party or what not, a superauto is prob best. Even SB would take 10 + mins or so to make all 5 coffees for your guests, so by the time you are ready to serve, the first one would be cold. Secondly, I cant think of a single affordable dual grouphead machine for the consumer market that would save a couple mins in your example, so I dont think thats a solution for most people.

+1. It took me about 10 minutes to bang out six drinks (including two longs and frothing two lattes) this past weekend after dinner. If you want timely service, a dual heads are a must.

[spender]

This is a good deal, and I will go check it out. I already have a big HX semi-automatic (and I once had a Silvia), but I am always looking for a deal...

[MIAB]

Has anyone seen or bought a Burr Grinder in this sale? The one I hear is good is the Baratza (spl?).

[alwayslookingforadeal]

what's a PID?

yes my SB needs to warm up after the 1st shot, otherwise the 2nd shot is not hot enough and lacks pressure...was thinking of actually sending it in for maintenance as its still under warranty.

[txenglan]

some people mentioned the comparatively inexpensive starbucks barista machine. Any comments about that? Is it part of this sale?

My understanding is (and I mentioned my certain uncertainty about what I am about to say) that the sale is applicable to all their equipment. Be that right or wrong (and I'm on a roll with being wrong as of late), what I really don't know is if there is a set % dicsount off all their equipment or if each item has a separately-calculated discount.

[zenity]

And here I am... trying to stop drinking so much coffee....

Thanks though!

[LoDown]

Who wins?

Espresso quality? - Semi-Automatic (hands down). Done well, you get coffee that tastes the way it smells.

Coffee/Milk drinks? - lets say tie - because milk masks bad coffee. Don't believe me? - go to Starbucks and order an espresso straight up - no sugar!

Maintenance? Semi-Automatic. Automatics need more care and break down more often.

Quality? Semi-automatic - uses brass, stainless steel - not cheap plastic.

Longevity? Semi-Automatic - 20-30 plus years. Automatic - you're lucky if 2 years pass without sending it for repairs.

Resale? Semi-Automatic - about the same price you bought it for. Automatic - you'll likely scrap it yourself.

Price? semi-automatics - $300 -$500+. Automatics start at $700 on sale.

Good Semi-automatics to buy? Gaggia (inventor's of the Espresso Machine) - the only one a beginner should get. Intermediate user - Rancilio Silvia.


Overall: No contest - Semi-Automatic

[Fantastical]

Do they ship to Canada, or does the local store sells those?

[leoben]

Who wins?

Espresso quality? - Semi-Automatic (hands down). Done well, you get coffee that tastes the way it smells.

Coffee/Milk drinks? - lets say tie - because milk masks bad coffee. Don't believe me? - go to Starbucks and order an espresso straight up - no sugar!

Maintenance? Semi-Automatic. Automatics need more care and break down more often.

Quality? Semi-automatic - uses brass, stainless steel - not cheap plastic.

Longevity? Semi-Automatic - 20-30 plus years. Automatic - you're lucky if 2 years pass without sending it for repairs.

Resale? Semi-Automatic - about the same price you bought it for. Automatic - you'll likely scrap it yourself.

Price? semi-automatics - $300 -$500+. Automatics start at $700 on sale.

Good Semi-automatics to buy? Gaggia (inventor's of the Espresso Machine) - the only one a beginner should get. Intermediate user - Rancilio Silvia.


Overall: No contest - Semi-Automatic




who wins:

for a busy full-time working professional who wants his/her coffee with no hassle in the morning:

AUTOMATIC

that's all.

[leoben]

Do they ship to Canada, or does the local store sells those?

if they didn't sell it in canada, it wouldn't be in the hot deals section.

[jory29]

I recently started making my own iced caramel macchiatos, and I can't tell the diff...

I start off by making decaff. Pres. Choice coffee, brewed very strong. I imagine any brand would work though!!

I add one ounce of the Starbucks vanilla syrup ($10 a bottle) into a tall glass, filled with 1/3 crushed ice. I add milk to around 2/3 - 3/4 of the glass. (2% is the best to use, I've found.) I top it off with the strong decaff. coffee. I drizzle in some caramel sundae topping, Hershey's brand, squeeze style bottle for convenience. Stir and serve. I had so many cravings for the Starbucks iced caramel macchiato that I finally had to come up with my own style of iced coffee. $5 a shot was too much for me.

Any sale is a good sale, so I'm sure some people appreciate OP's posting. :) I just thought I'd share my own success with a refreshing summer iced coffee drink. :)

Most people will likely prefer using reg. coffee rather than decaff. but it just so happens that I gave up caffeine several months ago. (I still miss it!) Use whatever type of coffee you like.

[a2vr6]

Many people here are. It's just that they aren't bothering to contribute.



There is a deal. It is staring you in the face. Show me where you can get this unit for less money (or anywhere close to this price for that matter). As for the recession, unless a person loses their job (or is worried about losing their job), it is all psychological. The state of the economy has been this way for over a year. The media finally uses the word "recession" and everyone goes nuts.

Incidentally, this is not a "coffee maker" per se. Also, I indicated that other units are on sale for similar % discounts.

Just noticed this post, now if half the people out there thought as clearly as yourself I think we would be in better shape.

[dereky]

Has anyone purchased a burr grinder from Starbucks before?

How much do they sell for during these sales?

[kev_eh]

Who wins?

Espresso quality? - Semi-Automatic (hands down). Done well, you get coffee that tastes the way it smells.

Coffee/Milk drinks? - lets say tie - because milk masks bad coffee. Don't believe me? - go to Starbucks and order an espresso straight up - no sugar!

Maintenance? Semi-Automatic. Automatics need more care and break down more often.

Quality? Semi-automatic - uses brass, stainless steel - not cheap plastic.

Longevity? Semi-Automatic - 20-30 plus years. Automatic - you're lucky if 2 years pass without sending it for repairs.

Resale? Semi-Automatic - about the same price you bought it for. Automatic - you'll likely scrap it yourself.

Price? semi-automatics - $300 -$500+. Automatics start at $700 on sale.

Good Semi-automatics to buy? Gaggia (inventor's of the Espresso Machine) - the only one a beginner should get. Intermediate user - Rancilio Silvia.


Overall: No contest - Semi-Automatic

Great way to sum it up, Lowdown! Personally, I have a Gaggia (couldn't afford the Silvia), and yes, it is very easy to use and you get consistent results. I don't find that the semi-auto is that much more laborious to use considering the results. For the same price, having a choice between a cheaply made full-auto and a "built-like-a-tank" semi-auto, I'd go for the latter (as well as a good stand-alone burr grinder) and expend a little more patience for a great cup!

[Temujin1]

Thanks OP. This post came too late for me. I bought a Solis Sl70 semi-auto from creativecookware due mainly to the reviews on coffeegeeks.com. The steamer on it can be best characterized as an energizer bunny, keeps going and going.

That being said, I can understand why some will never be in to buying their own machine. It just isn't worth it to some people. But for others, it's part of the fun of their day. I love kitchen gadgets, so it was a no brainer for me, because i'm also one that appreciates having three very good (although expensive) kitchen knives vs. a set of cheapies every year that don't really do the job right.

[Temujin1]

I recently started making my own iced caramel macchiatos, and I can't tell the diff...

I start off by making decaff. Pres. Choice coffee, brewed very strong. I imagine any brand would work though!!

I add one ounce of the Starbucks vanilla syrup ($10 a bottle) into a tall glass, filled with 1/3 crushed ice. I add milk to around 2/3 - 3/4 of the glass. (2% is the best to use, I've found.) I top it off with the strong decaff. coffee. I drizzle in some caramel sundae topping, Hershey's brand, squeeze style bottle for convenience. Stir and serve. I had so many cravings for the Starbucks iced caramel macchiato that I finally had to come up with my own style of iced coffee. $5 a shot was too much for me.

Any sale is a good sale, so I'm sure some people appreciate OP's posting. :) I just thought I'd share my own success with a refreshing summer iced coffee drink. :)

Most people will likely prefer using reg. coffee rather than decaff. but it just so happens that I gave up caffeine several months ago. (I still miss it!) Use whatever type of coffee you like.

Find a place that can offer freshly roasted coffee, less than 2 weeks old. I promise you that you can tell the difference.:-0

[Temujin1]

Has anyone seen or bought a Burr Grinder in this sale? The one I hear is good is the Baratza (spl?).

The solis baratza sells for $119 at creativecookware. if you buy it with a bundle, it's a bit cheaper.

[Astin]

Shame they don't sell a fully manual maker.

Yah, I just put that there to throw a wrench in the Semi vs Full argument. If you want full control over your coffee, then you might as well be responsible for all the pressure and timing.

Anyway, any Virtuosos grinders out there? I make far more coffee than espresso, so something that does a good medium grind is all I need, and they had the best prices on the Virtuoso last time (but almost no inventory).

Only time I'd actually choose to shop at Starbucks.

[galanz]

Sorry to thread hijack here, but I'm thinking of getting a Rancilio Silvia and this is the best price I could find.
http://www.zcafe.ca/Site/Product.aspx?ID=264

$599 Free shipping but sale ends today.
Anyone know of a better/cheaper option?

[eelfliw]

Uh, I'm pretty sure you made a pretty solid argument against your own point.

The problem is people do not want to practice, they don't want to fly around their kitchen like a pro-barista, they don't want <5 second breaks while they have guest, they don't want to invest in two group heads. Starbucks went to super-autos to alleviate some of the consistency/training issues and wait times that people also want to avoid at home.

I'd say someone who pays $500 - $1000 for a competent auto espresso maker is pretty serious about coffee.

And if someone's that serious about coffee, you'd think they would take the time to learn to become a better barista?

Also, two group heads is still cheaper than an auto espresso machine. Money is much better spent on top quality java beans than machines.

[BaadDawg]

Silvia + Rocky grinder here. One day will mod with PID. Most important thing to a good cup are the beans. 99% of the beans you get are lousy. Can't get Intelligentsia Black Cat here in Ottawa but you can in Toronto. That's a pretty good coffee.

Lucked out and found some amazing beans at Costco but they haven't carried them since last September. They were the Kirkland Colombian Supremo in 3 pound bags. Once I tried it I bought 9 bags so I have my coffee for the year. Hasn't deteriorated either, although once open you have to keep the bag super well sealed and in a cool place (not fridge).

It's all about the beans, and they are really hard to find.

[Astin]

Lucked out and found some amazing beans at Costco but they haven't carried them since last September. They were the Kirkland Colombian Supremo in 3 pound bags. Once I tried it I bought 9 bags so I have my coffee for the year. Hasn't deteriorated either, although once open you have to keep the bag super well sealed and in a cool place (not fridge).

It's all about the beans, and they are really hard to find.

You're half right here. Good beans are definitely the biggest component. But the reason the pre-roasted stuff doesn't deteriorate is because by the time it's at the store, it's already well past stale. It doesn't really get MORE stale.

Buy a roaster and green beans and you'll be complete in your equipment needs, and then be on the path to spending more money on increasingly better equipment to maintain your coffee snobbery.

I have around 18 lbs of green beans from various regions in my pantry at the moment. Granted, most of those were from a recent run on Ethiopian beans due to the government cutting off and reorganizing exports and sales there.

Plus, green beans keep for 2-5 years, so you have even less to worry about in terms of them going bad.

[JC69]

You're half right here. Good beans are definitely the biggest component. But the reason the pre-roasted stuff doesn't deteriorate is because by the time it's at the store, it's already well past stale. It doesn't really get MORE stale.

Buy a roaster and green beans and you'll be complete in your equipment needs, and then be on the path to spending more money on increasingly better equipment to maintain your coffee snobbery.

I have around 18 lbs of green beans from various regions in my pantry at the moment. Granted, most of those were from a recent run on Ethiopian beans due to the government cutting of an reorganizing exports and sales there.

Plus, green beans keep for 2-5 years, so you have even less to worry about in terms of them going bad.

I think they can still ferment though and change in taste the longer you keep them...that's what I got from the guys who showed me round a coffee plantation anyway, they leave them for a certain period of time when they are red to ferment and produce oils etc. Besides the best coffee I had was at the plantation from a drip machine. I like espresso too (completely different I know) but aside from the crema it tastes just as good from stovetop Italian espresso machine.

[hazman]

Buy a roaster and green beans and you'll be complete in your equipment needs, and then be on the path to spending more money on increasingly better equipment to maintain your coffee snobbery.

I have around 18 lbs of green beans from various regions in my pantry at the moment. Granted, most of those were from a recent run on Ethiopian beans due to the government cutting of an reorganizing exports and sales there.

Plus, green beans keep for 2-5 years, so you have even less to worry about in terms of them going bad.

I am with you on that!!!

Roasting my own beans, grinding immediately and then making on a stovetop is a fantastic way to start the day!

Usually, I will roast every other day, never more that 3 days between roasting and grinding, the grinding to brewing is measured in minutes.

[Astin]

I think they can still ferment though and change in taste the longer you keep them...that's what I got from the guys who showed me round a coffee plantation anyway, they leave them for a certain period of time when they are red to ferment and produce oils etc. Besides the best coffee I had was at the plantation from a drip machine. I like espresso too (completely different I know) but aside from the crema it tastes just as good from stovetop Italian espresso machine.

Green beans? They're pretty stable once they've reached that stage (sun dried at the plantation, etc.). The oils really come out when roasted. But I don't doubt that the flavour changes subtly with time.

Roasted beans, however go stale in a matter of days. It takes very little oxygen to start oxidation of the oils, and that doesn't stop even if you vacuum seal them.

As for coffee types, I don't really get the obssession with espresso myself. It was created because a bunch of Italians didn't want to wait for fresh hot coffee and Illy figured out the pressure-temperature ratio to get a quick shot with lots of flavour. Brewed coffee has more complexity, more caffeine, and can be enjoyed longer simply because there's more of it. It's also a lot easier to make properly, and all you need is a filter, a brewing container, and boiling water as opposed to hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars of machine.

[Homeo]

People hack coffe makers these days?
Curious to know what you gain by hacking a coffe brewing machine

[Astin]

People hack coffe makers these days?
Curious to know what you gain by hacking a coffe brewing machine

Better water temperature control for a drip brewer for one. Most drips keep the temp too low for optimal coffee because lower temps mask the flavour of stale, cheap coffee that most people drink.

For a semi-auto or fully auto espresso machine, you could get more accurate pressure control I imagine.

Cheap burr grinders can be hacked to create finer, more uniform espresso grind, and those adjustments are often simple and cheap, especially compared to higher-end burr grinders.

[BaadDawg]

I know all about home roasting. I am happy with my stash of Costco coffee. Says best before Oct 2009 and so far it has been great. Roasting your own is an art and I am sure satisfying but not I'm not into it.

Actually while you don't understand the fuss about espresso, I don't understand the fuss about anything BUT espresso.
It's all about taste like wine or art. Mine is not better than yours, I know what I like and good beans roasted properly are hard to find. If you can do it on your own more power to ya.

[bythehour]

This discussion has become funny. Sure, you could roast your own beans, grind your beans, manually pull shots controlling temp and time...but come on, really?

Do these same people also wash and detail their cars by hand? Prepare every meal from scratch? Knit their own sweaters?

We're talking about an appliance vs. a hobby (or passion).

I am no zealot; I just like a good brew. An automatic, like the 4400, gives me a good fix quickly, with little trouble and little effort. That's what it's for, and that's what it does well.

[thecatjinx]

+1. It took me about 10 minutes to bang out six drinks (including two longs and frothing two lattes) this past weekend after dinner. If you want timely service, a dual heads are a must.
Just a note for anyone looking for dual head machine, you'll likely need a 220 connection in your kitchen or you can get an adapter to plug into the range outlet

Sorry to thread hijack here, but I'm thinking of getting a Rancilio Silvia and this is the best price I could find.
http://www.zcafe.ca/Site/Product.aspx?ID=264

$599 Free shipping but sale ends today.
Anyone know of a better/cheaper option?

If you don't really care if it's new or not, you'd probably find a good deal on craigs for a machine and grinder for that price....these machines were built to last and being a simple design makes them fairly easy to repair, most of the time these used machines only need new gaskets

[BaadDawg]

This discussion has become funny. Sure, you could roast your own beans, grind your beans, manually pull shots controlling temp and time...but come on, really?

It's all about pulling the God Shot. Google it you'll find out plenty to keep you interested.

[MacBuster]

I'd say someone who pays $500 - $1000 for a competent auto espresso maker is pretty serious about coffee.

And if someone's that serious about coffee, you'd think they would take the time to learn to become a better barista?

Also, two group heads is still cheaper than an auto espresso machine. Money is much better spent on top quality java beans than machines.


My time is vastly more important than the money.

[LoDown]

My time is vastly more important than the money.

??. If money means nothing to you - why are you on RFD:?:

[MacBuster]

??. If money means nothing to you - why are you on RFD:?:

This kind of silly statement always gets made whenever a good deal on something expensive comes up.

This isn't the dollar store site.

[jory29]

Find a place that can offer freshly roasted coffee, less than 2 weeks old. I promise you that you can tell the difference.:-0

I have a feeling you're very right about that. Thinking about it now, when I first opened the (new) container of ground coffee, I would have expected to have been overwhelmed with the aroma of the coffee... it just wasn't so. Maybe because it was decaff? I'm going to try to grind my own beans, and see if that makes a diff. I bet it will.
So then, only specialty coffee houses,. etc., can guarantee when the beans were roasted? I should probably just try to buy the freshly roasted beans that were roasted under 2 weeks ago, as you said.

I wonder how long ago the 'loose' beans at Safeway, etc. were roasted? (The bulk beans that you can buy there.)

Thanks! :)

[BaadDawg]

This is a good site for coffee reviews.
http://www.coffeereview.com/
Unfortunately almost none of the coffees reviewed are roasted in Canada and the shipping from the US is as much or more than the coffee (they average around $15 a pound just for the coffee).

That's why I said to try Balck Cat if you live in Toronto or Vancouver or Montreal. It's highly rated (a friend sent me a half pound and its good) and available at a coffee shop in each of those cities.

[kev_eh]

[QUOTE=Astin;8515547]Shame they don't sell a fully manual maker.

What about the Electras (with lever)? :cheesygri

http://www.elektrasrl.com/fam_retro_1grlv_co.php

[spender]

[QUOTE=Astin;8515547]Shame they don't sell a fully manual maker.

What about the Electras (with lever)? :cheesygri

http://www.elektrasrl.com/fam_retro_1grlv_co.php


The lever machines look more fun than they are - very difficult to get consistent pressure out of them - this is why you hardly see them anymore.

[spender]

This is a good site for coffee reviews.
http://www.coffeereview.com/
Unfortunately almost none of the coffees reviewed are roasted in Canada and the shipping from the US is as much or more than the coffee (they average around $15 a pound just for the coffee).

That's why I said to try Balck Cat if you live in Toronto or Vancouver or Montreal. It's highly rated (a friend sent me a half pound and its good) and available at a coffee shop in each of those cities.

Black Cat can also be ordered from Caffetech in Edmonton, of all places. They also send via Xpresspost. Black Cat is great, no doubt, but you're better off finding a local roaster and buying a freshly roasted pound per week.

[spender]

I have a feeling you're very right about that. Thinking about it now, when I first opened the (new) container of ground coffee, I would have expected to have been overwhelmed with the aroma of the coffee... it just wasn't so. Maybe because it was decaff? I'm going to try to grind my own beans, and see if that makes a diff. I bet it will.
So then, only specialty coffee houses,. etc., can guarantee when the beans were roasted? I should probably just try to buy the freshly roasted beans that were roasted under 2 weeks ago, as you said.

I wonder how long ago the 'loose' beans at Safeway, etc. were roasted? (The bulk beans that you can buy there.)

Thanks! :)

If you want to find freshly roasted beans without having to drive to a specialty store, try your local organic store in the neighbourhood - they generally stock a great selection of freshly roasted beans, both bulk and bagged.

[JC69]

Or depending where you go on holiday...buy it there. I've bought beans from Costa Rica, Guatemala, Panama...all pretty fresh....all way better and way cheaper than you can get here (cheaper than even the nasty stuff you can buy).

[txenglan]

Thanks again to everyone who has posted in this thread. I couldn't have hoped for more. Have been distracted over the last few days and haven't carefully read every comment but I am thrilled by the type of discussion taking place. Great stuff and very helpful:!:

[BaadDawg]

If you want to find freshly roasted beans without having to drive to a specialty store, try your local organic store in the neighbourhood - they generally stock a great selection of freshly roasted beans, both bulk and bagged.

I dissagree. Just because it is fresh and locally roasted doesn't mean a thing. I have had vacum sealed beans that were a year old wipe the floor over beans that just came out of the roaster (allowed to properly cool) from local boutique shops.

Coffee is a really hard thing to nail down, there are so many variables. I have tried (several times) just about every local roaster in Ottawa and it has always been hit and miss. OK some times awful other times.

Just found out you can now get Intelligentsia in Ottawa as of 3 days ago at Xpresso in the market.

Anyways my point is good equipment is important but it's no guarantee. Great coffee (brewed in the cup) is surprisingly hard to replicate cup to cup. That is why anyone looking for the "sweet spot" would never use an automatic for espresso/cappy or lattes. Plus they are way too complicated to clean properly (a must) and don't last nearly as long as manuals or semis. I will get 20 years easy out of my Rocky/Silvia combo (an entry level setup) with minimal upkeep. I sold my last Rancilio grinder that was 10 years old and the burrs were not even replaceable for half of what I paid for it.

I had a cheap Gaggia semi when I first started out and had to return it 4 times before I got my first decent machine which lasted 10 years and kept half its value without ever needing more than group gasket changes, steam valve gaskets and once a boiler gasket change.

Main thing to look for in any machine is a brass boiler. The aluminum boilers will not last and that is what most inexpensive machines use.

[Astin]

This discussion has become funny. Sure, you could roast your own beans, grind your beans, manually pull shots controlling temp and time...but come on, really?

Do these same people also wash and detail their cars by hand? Prepare every meal from scratch? Knit their own sweaters?

We're talking about an appliance vs. a hobby (or passion).

Your examples are all pretty normal activities (okay, maybe less sweater-knitting these days). Anyone who REALLY likes cars hand washes and details. Hell, many tweak the engine and other components regularly.

I prepare meals from scratch every chance I get. It's far more satisfying and tastes much better.

And I personally know at least 3 people who love to knit. Some have even knitted sweaters.

This is no different. People who truly appreciate coffee are the same as those who love wine or great beers. Those who say "Tim Horton's is good enough for me." or maintain their brand-name ground coffe in their $30 drip machine is just as good have either never had a fresh-roasted, fresh-ground, properly made coffee, or don't have the palate to discern the differences. Although if you can't tell the difference between Starbucks burnaccino and a great properly-made coffee, then everything probably tastes like styrofoam to you.

[stealth]

Black Cat can also be ordered from Caffetech in Edmonton, of all places. They also send via Xpresspost. Black Cat is great, no doubt, but you're better off finding a local roaster and buying a freshly roasted pound per week.

I personally think Black Cat is over rated. i had a shot of it in chicago in the spring, and brought home a bag with me....overpowering flavours, too busy IMO. tasted exactly like some beans I once bought at costco during one of their short term vendor expo things. I actually prefer Second Cup's beans (nothing like starbucks). Birds and Beans in Mimico is quite good as well. Theres also a great coffee shop/roaster in downtown Oakville, who's name escapes me at the moment.

[stealth]

As for coffee types, I don't really get the obssession with espresso myself. It was created because a bunch of Italians didn't want to wait for fresh hot coffee and Illy figured out the pressure-temperature ratio to get a quick shot with lots of flavour. Brewed coffee has more complexity, more caffeine, and can be enjoyed longer simply because there's more of it. It's also a lot easier to make properly, and all you need is a filter, a brewing container, and boiling water as opposed to hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars of machine.

More complexity? Why, because its diluted?:confused: On the rare occasion that I drink black coffee all i taste is bitterness, whereas espresso properly done can have as many subtle flavours as wine.
more caffeine? are you sure...in a fair comparison by volume?

[txenglan]

The issue of caffeine % in a shot vs a full cup is an interesting one. A medium-sized dark roast from Starbucks can deliver quite a punch (whether you like the coffee or not) but certainly not as much as a medium-sized lighter roast. This is widely known/assumed and supposedly has to do with the relative length of time that roasting has occurred. I remember reading that a shot of espresso (again, in general,) has much less caffeine than your average-medium-sized Tim Hortons coffee (which tastes like disgusting mud water IMO).

One thing I have noticed with shots from the Delonghi so far is that they hit me like a ton of bricks and immediately give me a caffeine "high". I'm not used to that and don't recall this happening often, even with the amazing shots I used to have while living in Italy. I'm also purposefully keeping my grinds longer than recommended to taste how they degrade as the days go by and incidentally, how the caffeine "whack" is also getting weaker when making shots from the older grinds. Fascinating!

[MacBuster]

I dissagree. Just because it is fresh and locally roasted doesn't mean a thing. I have had vacum sealed beans that were a year old wipe the floor over beans that just came out of the roaster (allowed to properly cool) from local boutique shops.

Coffee is a really hard thing to nail down, there are so many variables. I have tried (several times) just about every local roaster in Ottawa and it has always been hit and miss. OK some times awful other times.

Just found out you can now get Intelligentsia in Ottawa as of 3 days ago at Xpresso in the market.

Anyways my point is good equipment is important but it's no guarantee. Great coffee (brewed in the cup) is surprisingly hard to replicate cup to cup. That is why anyone looking for the "sweet spot" would never use an automatic for espresso/cappy or lattes. Plus they are way too complicated to clean properly (a must) and don't last nearly as long as manuals or semis. I will get 20 years easy out of my Rocky/Silvia combo (an entry level setup) with minimal upkeep. I sold my last Rancilio grinder that was 10 years old and the burrs were not even replaceable for half of what I paid for it.

I had a cheap Gaggia semi when I first started out and had to return it 4 times before I got my first decent machine which lasted 10 years and kept half its value without ever needing more than group gasket changes, steam valve gaskets and once a boiler gasket change.

Main thing to look for in any machine is a brass boiler. The aluminum boilers will not last and that is what most inexpensive machines use.

Everyone defines their own point of diminishing returns. I have a good semi-auto and a good burr grinder, and I still use my super-auto regularly. I also open a cheap bottle of wine on weekdays with my lasagna leftovers. Perfection is nice, but often not practical.

The Delonghi super-autos discussed here have all SS internals (since the update).

[MacBuster]

I was looking at getting one of the Rialto machines, so the wife can push a button for her steamed vanilla milks.

However, a bit of research on these models was revealing.

The Magnifica (manual steamer), that SB stocks is the ESAM-4400, which is an update of the EAM-4400 to include double stainless boilers and an upgraded burr grinder. By all accounts the "ESAM" Delonghis are much better than the EAM Delonghis.

The upper model, however, is not the updated one in the SBs I've been to, and is the EAM-4500, not the ESAM-4500.

Has anyone noticed if they are getting the ESAM-4500s in their store? I am not comfortable with a single non-SS boiler and an old burr grinder, but I want the auto milk steamer.

[tiggrrrrr75]

This is a good site for coffee reviews.
http://www.coffeereview.com/
Unfortunately almost none of the coffees reviewed are roasted in Canada and the shipping from the US is as much or more than the coffee (they average around $15 a pound just for the coffee).

That's why I said to try Balck Cat if you live in Toronto or Vancouver or Montreal. It's highly rated (a friend sent me a half pound and its good) and available at a coffee shop in each of those cities.

Where can you get this in Montreal? Tired googling it and nothing came up.

[spender]

I dissagree. Just because it is fresh and locally roasted doesn't mean a thing. I have had vacum sealed beans that were a year old wipe the floor over beans that just came out of the roaster (allowed to properly cool) from local boutique shops.

Coffee is a really hard thing to nail down, there are so many variables. I have tried (several times) just about every local roaster in Ottawa and it has always been hit and miss. OK some times awful other times.

Just found out you can now get Intelligentsia in Ottawa as of 3 days ago at Xpresso in the market.

Anyways my point is good equipment is important but it's no guarantee. Great coffee (brewed in the cup) is surprisingly hard to replicate cup to cup. That is why anyone looking for the "sweet spot" would never use an automatic for espresso/cappy or lattes. Plus they are way too complicated to clean properly (a must) and don't last nearly as long as manuals or semis. I will get 20 years easy out of my Rocky/Silvia combo (an entry level setup) with minimal upkeep. I sold my last Rancilio grinder that was 10 years old and the burrs were not even replaceable for half of what I paid for it.

I had a cheap Gaggia semi when I first started out and had to return it 4 times before I got my first decent machine which lasted 10 years and kept half its value without ever needing more than group gasket changes, steam valve gaskets and once a boiler gasket change.

Main thing to look for in any machine is a brass boiler. The aluminum boilers will not last and that is what most inexpensive machines use.

And although I don't disagree that Intelligentsia is good, it does have somewhat of the "big name fixation" that makes it easier for people to think that if they like it, then they must have taste. If you actually do your homework to find the stuff that is truly good quality instead of just buying the big name, then you'll be happier in the long run. Don't take my word for it, see what David Schomer thinks: http://www.espressovivace.com/archives/9502col.html. Also see his other articles at http://www.espressovivace.com/archives.html. If there ever was an espresso "god", he's the guy.

Anyway, I agree with all your other points. :lol:

[brendonp]

Your examples are all pretty normal activities (okay, maybe less sweater-knitting these days). Anyone who REALLY likes cars hand washes and details. Hell, many tweak the engine and other components regularly.

I prepare meals from scratch every chance I get. It's far more satisfying and tastes much better.

And I personally know at least 3 people who love to knit. Some have even knitted sweaters.

This is no different. People who truly appreciate coffee are the same as those who love wine or great beers. Those who say "Tim Horton's is good enough for me." or maintain their brand-name ground coffe in their $30 drip machine is just as good have either never had a fresh-roasted, fresh-ground, properly made coffee, or don't have the palate to discern the differences. Although if you can't tell the difference between Starbucks burnaccino and a great properly-made coffee, then everything probably tastes like styrofoam to you.

+1

I do tend to prefer most things done by hand (including car work - heck, I did 3 oil changes last night after work). Granted my wife generally prepares meals, not me, but their usually from scratch (pizza starts off as flour & water to prepare the dough!), and usually don't take longer then 30 minutes per dinner. She doesn't knit often, but she has made all the curtains in our house (when you're making thick 12' high curtains, this is a significant savings!)...

All you have to do is re-prioritize; we cut out TV a few years back (other then the odd college sports game for me, or the occasional movie) and there's tons of time do things by hand (and a nice savings)...

As to coffee - I'm a manual lever fan for espresso (currently using a La Pavoni Europicolla) which I bought used. It's been quite a bit of work to get good consistent shots, but when they're good... awesome! Pretty useless for parties, since I can really only get 2 doubles out of it, before requiring some reheating - lattes or anything frothy is pretty easy - the milk/cream masks so much of the taste that the shots don't need the consistency. Coffee is a french press thing in our household, though I'm going to pick up an AeroPress in the next couple of weeks - I've heard nothing but good things about them.

As an aside - any recommendations for fresher beans in the KW area? My wife usually picks me up a French Roast from a store in the Atrium (can't recall the name off hand), but I haven't found anything local that I like.

[Karifore]

Would anyone happen to know where I can find a 4400 in the GTA?

Thanks for any input!

Edit: I noticed the price of the machine on the Starbucks online store is back to regular price. Does this mean the sale is over?

[txenglan]

Edit: I noticed the price of the machine on the Starbucks online store is back to regular price. Does this mean the sale is over?

Not necessarily. Just walk into any Starbucks store and ask if they have a sale on. If they say the sale is over, try another one. I got mixed messages when I asked about how long the sale would last so I tend not to trust any one source. Also, the national Starbucks customer service number should have more accurate information. This is how I knew which was the first day that the sale would go live (months before hand).

[Karifore]

Thanks for the info. The problem now is finding a store that has it. I've been to a few stores already but most of them don't carry the big machines, and the one I found that did carry espresso machines didn't have the 4400. Any ideas where I can find a store that carries it or an area where I should be searching? Thanks!

Not necessarily. Just walk into any Starbucks store and ask if they have a sale on. If they say the sale is over, try another one. I got mixed messages when I asked about how long the sale would last so I tend not to trust any one source. Also, the national Starbucks customer service number should have more accurate information. This is how I knew which was the first day that the sale would go live (months before hand).

[txenglan]

Thanks for the info. The problem now is finding a store that has it. I've been to a few stores already but most of them don't carry the big machines, and the one I found that did carry espresso machines didn't have the 4400. Any ideas where I can find a store that carries it or an area where I should be searching? Thanks!

As a general rule, I tend to find that the stores that are attached to Chapters locations are better stocked in terms of almost all of their inventory portfolio but especially that which is brewing equipment-related. If you have any Chapters stores near you, try phoning them first! Also, most locations should be able to order in a unit if they don't have it in stock and their should be no charge for the order (at least that is what I was told in the past).

[galanz]

My Rancilio showed up yesterday and it's surprisingly heavy. The portafilter alone weighs over a pound, it should be a good upgrade from my little Breville.
The Delonghi from Starbucks would be easier but I like the more manual machines. I would still like a Pavoni with the lever someday to really feel like I'm accomplishing something. :)

[baileyr]

Thanks for the heads-up on this sale. The signs in store mention a sale end date of May 4th.

We didn't really want the Super Automatic, so we bought the $199 Saeco Via Venezia. This machine was quite a bit more money a year or two ago - it seems like pretty good bang for the buck now!

[Karifore]

Thanks for your help! It took a few calls, but I managed to track one down.

As a general rule, I tend to find that the stores that are attached to Chapters locations are better stocked in terms of almost all of their inventory portfolio but especially that which is brewing equipment-related. If you have any Chapters stores near you, try phoning them first! Also, most locations should be able to order in a unit if they don't have it in stock and their should be no charge for the order (at least that is what I was told in the past).

[bythehour]

I bought the 4400 near the end of the SB last sale.

I went to 5 or 6 stores without luck. I finally went to one near my house and asked the manager to track one down for me. It took almost a week to find one, and then a few days to have it shipped.

[txenglan]

I just got home, pushed a button, threw in some beans and enjoyed the best shot my 4400 has produced so far. As a matter of fact, it was a double shot and to be honest, the quality was so good I am a little taken aback and it leaves me wondering what was different. :confused: If every shot I get from now on is anywhere close to what I just got, I am more than a happy customer. What I just got out of this machine is more than I expected I would ever get and I'm still tweaking (as much as one can with an automatic machine)!

[Karifore]

I saw a sign at the store I was at saying the brewing equipment sale was until end of April (I think it was 24th or 26th). So it might actually be different depending on the store. I was told they have this sale twice a year. Usually once around April, and the other time is around the holidays.

[Thumper]

Someone pointed me to Starbucks, but so far no luck. We are going to be traveling through Europe (in a small motorhome) for a month and I want something like that for the early morning coffees.

Does anyone have any ideas?

[Astin]

Coffee is a french press thing in our household, though I'm going to pick up an AeroPress in the next couple of weeks - I've heard nothing but good things about them.


Add one more. I use the AeroPress at work with fresh-roasted, fresh-ground beans from home. Like most things, there are some tweaks to the suggested instructions. You don't want an espresso grind, as that makes pressing the coffee incredibly hard. A slightly coarser, or even drip grind works fine. It makes a decent espresso-like shot, and I imagine fiddling with the grind and roast can bring it more in-line.

Also, if you fill up the cylinder, it makes a good coffee too, or do an americano by doing a large shot and topping it off with water. Either is better than what you'll get from your local chain or the office machine.

[Astin]

More complexity? Why, because its diluted?:confused: On the rare occasion that I drink black coffee all i taste is bitterness, whereas espresso properly done can have as many subtle flavours as wine.
more caffeine? are you sure...in a fair comparison by volume?

Then you're drinking stale, bad coffee.

Espresso has zero time to brew. You get a shot of flavour, but lose a lot in the process. This is why a proper espresso grind is so fine, to get as much surface area as possible in contact with the water. A properly made coffee steeps for 3 minutes before the grounds are filtered out (either via a filter or press). You get maximum transfer of oils and flavours without the bitterness. A properly made brewed coffee is far richer experience than an espresso shot.

There's also a sweet spot with coffee that differs with each person, based on our own sense of taste. Start by brewing it strong (less water in the steeping), and adding water after to dilute it until you find a natural sweetness. If done right, there should be no need for sugar, cream, or any other additive. There's a reason coffee tasters taste brewed coffee, not espresso when determining quality and price points.

As for caffeine - yes. Most espresso is made with a dark roast, which burns off much of the caffeine. The lighter the roast, the denser the caffeine content. As well, the low contact time means minimal caffeine extraction.

I'm not knocking espresso, it has its benefits as well, but I prefer a full mug of coffee any day of the week.

As for bitterness, there are a number of contributing factors. As has been said here, most storebought (and chain-bought) coffees are made with grounds that are already stale. A roasted bean has 3-5 days before it's stale, and grounds have only a few hours before the oils have oxidized. Most cafés and home drip machines underheat their water when making coffee because colder water masks the bitterness. If they use the proper temperature with stale grounds, you get a bitter flavour. Also, places like Starbucks tend to burn their beans and call it a "french roast" or some other name. This creates a very bitter brew. There's a world of difference between a proper dark roast and burnt. There's also a lack of understanding on flavour profiles of the beans themselves. Some beans are fantastic at a medium roast and terrible dark, and others are the other way around. There's no one-roast-fits-all, and most people and places ignore this. Add in incorrect brew times, unclean machines, or any other number of factors, and there's a bunch of reasons why a cup can taste bitter.

[Karifore]

Most of the Starbucks I visited seemed to carry the Bodum coffee presses, but some had more choices than others. Either way, if you ask someone at the store or call a store, they should be able to direct you to another store that should carry them.


Someone pointed me to Starbucks, but so far no luck. We are going to be traveling through Europe (in a small motorhome) for a month and I want something like that for the early morning coffees.

Does anyone have any ideas?

[rubeus]

I've a saeco super automatic for about 4 years now.
They go for about $1200. ( i bought it for about $800 on ebay)

Considering We've had a couple of espresso's (morning) and couple Cappucino's (evening) every day for the 4 years.
I've gotten more than my money's worth.

It went in once for service during that time and they gave us a loaner.
I think my wife would die with out this thing.

My machine pulls a beautiful shot, with a nice thick crema.

Sure a rancilo with a burr grinder may make a better shot.
But nothing beats pressing the button and getting a shot of
espresso in 30 secs, as you're running out to work.

As with all appliances the easier it is, the more you use it.

Saeco/Gaggia is the way to go for sure.
(Saeco is the parent company for Gaggia)
Had a gaggia semi-auto previously but never used it (maybe like 10 times over 3 years)

[Spike]

Silvia + Rocky grinder here. [...]
Lucked out and found some amazing beans at Costco but they haven't carried them since last September. They were the Kirkland Colombian Supremo in 3 pound bags. Once I tried it I bought 9 bags so I have my coffee for the year. Hasn't deteriorated either, although once open you have to keep the bag super well sealed and in a cool place (not fridge).

It's all about the beans, and they are really hard to find.

Hilarious. You have a Silvia and Rocky, but yet, you buy a years worth of pre-roasted Colombian. Then you tell us it's all about the beans. :lol:


Plus, green beans keep for 2-5 years, so you have even less to worry about in terms of them going bad.

Not even close. Most beans will become noticably baggy within 1-1.5 years, some within 6 months. Besides, my bean dealer (Sweet Marias) is always bringing in interesting new coffees so I only buy 12 lbs (3 months worth) at a time.

[txenglan]

Besides, my bean dealer (Sweet Marias) is always bringing in interesting new coffees so I only buy 12 lbs (3 months worth) at a time.

How do you roast yours? Now thinking I might want to do so myself as I don't particularly want to have to keep driving to a coffee shop every week to buy 1 week's worth of roasted beans.

[Spike]

How do you roast yours? Now thinking I might want to do so myself as I don't particularly want to have to keep driving to a coffee shop every week to buy 1 week's worth of roasted beans.

I use a converted oven in the basement with a vent hose going into the chimney. I've been meaning to build a drum assembly but haven't gotten around to it yet.

If you drink a lot of espresso, you need to roast a lot of coffee so corn poppers and these small home roasters aren't going to cut it. You need something that roasts in 1/2 lb batches at a minimum.

[txenglan]

I use a converted oven in the basement with a vent hose going into the chimney. I've been meaning to build a drum assembly but haven't gotten around to it yet.

If you drink a lot of espresso, you need to roast a lot of coffee so corn poppers and these small home roasters aren't going to cut it. You need something that roasts in 1/2 lb batches at a minimum.

Thanks! This is fascinating! Going to have to do some reading on how all of this is done. I am not currently in a position to be able to do any of that but will soon be.

[Astin]

How do you roast yours? Now thinking I might want to do so myself as I don't particularly want to have to keep driving to a coffee shop every week to buy 1 week's worth of roasted beans.

I use a home roaster (Fresh Roast Plus 8, available in various locations in the city). But I'm only roasting for one, and my coffee consumption is down a lot these days since I barely have time in the morning to pour a glass of juice, let alone brew anything. So if you're roasting for a family or need a LOT of beans (one roast is usually enough for 3 days for me), then you might want something with more volume.

There are also various how-tos out there on building your own, using an oven, a hot air popcorn popper (I used to do this, but it started melting the plastic), and other methods.

[sugarsugar]

Can I use gift cards to buy those machines:?:

[txenglan]

I use a home roaster (Fresh Roast Plus 8, available in various locations in the city). But I'm only roasting for one, and my coffee consumption is down a lot these days since I barely have time in the morning to pour a glass of juice, let alone brew anything.

Cool, thanks! I will look into that since I wouldn't need to roast very much. I am having trouble going through pre-ground coffee and/or pre-roasted beans fast enough that I can drink the coffee before the stale monster gets to them. If I could drink more shots of espresso, I'd do so but the whacked-out high I'm getting from a single shot out of this machine is too much for me to drink more than 2 double shots a day.

Can I use gift cards to buy those machines:?:

Best to ask Starbucks but I don't see why not.

[jonnyyaa]

hmm, I went to a SB and they don't stock the machines. Iw onder if they can order them in for this sale....anyone know? the girl told me she "didn't think so"!!

[txenglan]

hmm, I went to a SB and they don't stock the machines. Iw onder if they can order them in for this sale....anyone know? the girl told me she "didn't think so"!!

I was told that they can do so. Try to speak to a manager. They know what is going on whereas many of the teenage kids behind the counter don't want to know and you are really just an annoyance to them :|

[neosynthesis]

i also bought the Delonghi Magnifica 4400 during the sale (it's still going until 1st week of may) and it's an incredible machine. If you're in the market for a fully automatic, you simply can't find a better deal for a new machine, not even on Amazon.

I lucked out and had a Starbucks employee friend got it for me for 30% on top of the sale price.

The machine itself is elegantly designed, easy to operate and it cleans itself. It's made in Italy and comes with 2 years of warranty. It makes great tasting coffee and once you settled on your taste, it will make it the same every time. You simply can't have this consistency using a manual machine.

Since it's full auto, you can even set it to make coffee for you at a certain time. I now wake up to the aroma of a sweet cup of espresso every morning.

If you've been wanting to try out an espresso machine, take advantage of this sale. Starbucks, surprisingly has a great buying experience and full refund policy if you don't like it.

DON'T use their beans, Starbucks' beans are over-roasted and bitter. I'm sure you can find better tasting beans almost anywhere else.

[sugarsugar]

Bought the 4400 machine with starbucks giftcards (when there is a promotioin@shoppers, 5000 points for $50 giftcard) awesome machine with awesome deal!!:cheesygri

[txenglan]

My 4400 is still going strong and is making great espressos. If there has been any noticeable change in the quality of the shots it is producing, it is as an actual improvement. I have only one beef wrt the quality of the espresso it is producing; 90% of the shots are not hot enough for my taste. It's strange though as some shots have been virtually spot on wrt temperature. What is particularly weird about it is that my routine is the same and the shots with the higher temperature haven't been produced when I deviate from the normal routine (as in I left it longer/shorter to warm up before "pulling" a shot). Anyone else notice this?

[mtheory]

i also bought the Delonghi Magnifica 4400 during the sale (it's still going until 1st week of may) and it's an incredible machine. If you're in the market for a fully automatic, you simply can't find a better deal for a new machine, not even on Amazon.

I lucked out and had a Starbucks employee friend got it for me for 30% on top of the sale price.

I'm also looking for a nice espresso machine, for Mother's day :cheesygri
Any chance I could meet this friend of yours?

[Tychicum]

I noted that several folks want a burr grinder ... there is a guy who sells Quisinart b-stock units on eBay for $55 CDN + $13 shipping.

They are in the original box with all the pieces parts so they must have been overproduction / over stock items.

He has been selling them for so long now he must have started out with a million of them.

A burr grinder is a burr grinder. I have never heard of anyone wearing one out.

[rob4321]

Can I use gift cards to buy those machines:?:

I bought a starbucks grinder with gift cards.

[baileyr]

A burr grinder is a burr grinder.

A conical burr grinder is a conical burr grinder and a wheel burr grinder is a wheel burr grinder.

[rharasem]

anyone know if this sale is still on?

[sdzbwxp]

A burr grinder is a burr grinder. I have never heard of anyone wearing one out.

Burr grinders are not the same. It's not the matter of wearing out, but its ability to slice beans into even pieces without generating much powder heat.

Assume that you have $500 budget for home espresso brewing; The rule of sum is that spend $300 on grinder and rest on a espresso machine. A good burr grinder is the prerequisite for making good espresso. Even if you have the top of line La Marzocco, you WILL NOT be able to make good espresso with that "Quisinart b-stock". Racillio Rocky is a decent Burr grinder, but you will get better result with a stepless grinder.

Here is some pictures for a good pull...

http://www.coffeegeek.com/images/22695/IMG_0008.JPG

www.coffeegeek.com (http://www.coffeegeek.com) is the place to go if you are interested in espresso.

[One Winged Angel]

Burr grinders are not the same. It's not the matter of wearing out, but its ability to slice beans into even pieces without generating much powder heat.

Assume that you have $500 budget for home espresso brewing; The rule of sum is that spend $300 on grinder and rest on a espresso machine. A good burr grinder is the prerequisite for making good espresso. Even if you have the top of line La Marzocco, you WILL NOT be able to make good espresso with that "Quisinart b-stock". Racillio Rocky is a decent Burr grinder, but you will get better result with a stepless grinder.

Here is some pictures for a good pull...

http://www.coffeegeek.com/images/22695/IMG_0008.JPG

www.coffeegeek.com (http://www.coffeegeek.com) is the place to go if you are interested in espresso.

What a beautifully-pulled shot. That's all I have the say. Nice amber crema for that espresso!

[alovingmama]

Is this essentially the same thing? https://www.airmiles.ca/arrow/RewardsProductDetails?productId=prod644056

I missed the Starbucks sale but have some airmiles saved up....

[txenglan]

I own both the ESAM4400 and the older EAM3400 from Delonghi. They are very similar machines and the 1 button touch for espresso is very convenient. However, I personally prefer the less expensive 3400 due to the manual froth wand. The 4400 has an attachable milk container, but I find it takes more time to use and to clean. The only complaint I could think of with the machines is the coffee does not come out super hot. For a very hot espresso you need a machine built with brass or copper, which normally run in the thousands of dollars.

In summary i think these machines are great for the price.

Is this essentially the same thing? https://www.airmiles.ca/arrow/RewardsProductDetails?productId=prod644056

I missed the Starbucks sale but have some airmiles saved up....

See the quote from Likwidsix as per the above. Not exactly the same model but close enough. Seems like the unit in the link you posted might have the wand that people generally don't like as much.

[CingKrab]

Does anyone know any Starbucks stores in/near downtown Montreal that carry their espresso machines? I went to four of them (Place Alexis Nihon, Le Faubourg, the one in Chapters on Ste. Catherine, the one on University near Ste. Catherine) and none of them seem to carry any machines at all.

[alovingmama]

I have been looking at all my local Starbucks stores too with no luck. I finally came to one store that does in fact sell machines BUT they advised me that they didn't think they would be getting DeLonghi products anymore. I don't know if this is true for any other Starbucks (this was not in Montreal). I really want to pick up a 4400 but am not finding anything near as cheap as this deal was. On the starbucks site they are $799 US so I am contemplating that as the dollar gets better, but I would love to do better than that.

[gerrythegreat]

Does anyone know any Starbucks stores in/near downtown Montreal that carry their espresso machines? I went to four of them (Place Alexis Nihon, Le Faubourg, the one in Chapters on Ste. Catherine, the one on University near Ste. Catherine) and none of them seem to carry any machines at all.


I m pretty sure I have seen machines at the Carrefour Laval one but you should call first (450) 505-3623 -

good luck

[txenglan]

I have been looking at all my local Starbucks stores too with no luck. I finally came to one store that does in fact sell machines BUT they advised me that they didn't think they would be getting DeLonghi products anymore. I don't know if this is true for any other Starbucks (this was not in Montreal). I really want to pick up a 4400 but am not finding anything near as cheap as this deal was. On the starbucks site they are $799 US so I am contemplating that as the dollar gets better, but I would love to do better than that.

Don't forget to take a look on E-Bay. A few weeks before I got my 4400 I saw the 3000 series being sold for $500-$600 CAD per unit by a guy in Quebec. I would have jumped on one of those had I not known about the then imminent sale at Starbucks.

[CingKrab]

I m pretty sure I have seen machines at the Carrefour Laval one but you should call first (450) 505-3623 -

good luck

Unfortunately I have no car, so Laval's probably out of the question for me. Thanks for the tip though.

[dollardave]

BTW, this sale is over.

[bofh]

Where can you get this in Montreal? Tired googling it and nothing came up.

Caffe in Gamba on Avenue du Parc carries Black Cat. They also have several other well known roasted beans like: 48th Parallell's Epic Espresso, PTs, etc.

http://www.caffeingamba.com/

[cheapshopper]

I am so mad at myself I missed this deal. :(

Cheapest 3300 unit I can find is $999. Most place sell them for $1200
So I guess this is rip off price if Starbuck can sell the 4400 unit for less then $700.

[ipassgas]

http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10324611&whse=BCCA&Ne=4000000&eCat=BCCA|1482&N=4008586&Mo=65&No=4&Nr=P_CatalogName:BCCA&cat=1482&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-CA&Sp=C&topnav=

Is this the costco machine above (for $1,249) the same machine that Starbucks was selling for $599?

[steve-0101]

http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10324611&whse=BCCA&Ne=4000000&eCat=BCCA|1482&N=4008586&Mo=65&No=4&Nr=P_CatalogName:BCCA&cat=1482&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-CA&Sp=C&topnav=

Is this the costco machine above (for $1,249) the same machine that Starbucks was selling for $599?

It is indeed. And what a delicious coffee it makes. :)

And it was $549.

[cheapshopper]

Now waiting for it go on sale again

[leoben]

i think i got mine for $699 during brewing sale.. it was $549 for some of you?? meh still decent enough price i'd say. if i didn't have to be at work by 7:30AM i would have gotten a rancilio but this machine serves me v. well.

[steeldoor]

After some research, I just pulled the trigger today on a new Delonghi Magnifica 4400 from Starbucks. It was a no-brainer at $549.00
Reg price was at $1399.00 (full MSRP I'm sure), and at Costco they have it "on sale" after a $250.00 coupon discount for $1000.00!!!

The SB sale is on until Sept 28th/09.

Run, don't walk.

[SyncMaster04]

After some research, I just pulled the trigger today on a new Delonghi Magnifica 4400 from Starbucks.

Which model is it? Is it with analog knob settings type or the digital push button type machine?

[steeldoor]

It is the ESAM 4400. It has the frother arm requiring you to steam/froth your milk manually, which I think is much better. I opted for this over the fully automatic one ("Rialto" I think) which steams/froths the milk for you, but takes away your ability to manually finish your latte/cappuccino with some "latte art" on top using a stainless, spouted milk container. The Rialto costs about $300.00 more too! I saw a machine demo'd that does the milk for you, and the appearance of the drink (white foam with two little brown spots on top where the espresso was dumped in) wasn't very inspiring.

Go to YouTube and search "Latte Art", and you'll see what I mean.

I'm just learning myself, but feel free to ask any further questions, as I am no longer able to sleep from all the caffeine, I got lots of time! :D



Oh, and it is the digital machine.

[SyncMaster04]

^ Thank you. From the Delonghi site it seemed like that ESAM 4400 has milk frothing pitcher built-in, no?

http://www.delonghi-espresso.com/ESAM4400.htm

Does it have double boiler? I also prefer the manual frothing type. So that I can have control over the milk pouring and do some art :). BTW, do you roast your own bean?

[steeldoor]

Note that web site says this:

"The information on this site refers to products that are sold in the U.S. only"


Double boiler? I dunno.

I don't do my own beans. I was in Italy in June and got some Ily beans.

[steve-0101]

^ Thank you. From the Delonghi site it seemed like that ESAM 4400 has milk frothing pitcher built-in, no?

http://www.delonghi-espresso.com/ESAM4400.htm

Does it have double boiler? I also prefer the manual frothing type. So that I can have control over the milk pouring and do some art :). BTW, do you roast your own bean?

Note that web site says this:

"The information on this site refers to products that are sold in the U.S. only"


Double boiler? I dunno.

I don't do my own beans. I was in Italy in June and got some Ily beans.

It's exactly the same as the Costco one, which is also listed as an ESAM4400:

http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10324611&whse=BCCA&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-CA&s=1

Not sure why the US Delonghi site shows a different one.

And yes, it has a double boiler.

[steeldoor]

Yup, that's the unit I have. Thanks.

Reg price at Costco: $1249.99. Costco has a coupon valid from Oct 5th to the 18th/09 for $250.00 off, making it $1000.00, (available only online at Costco.ca, not in the brick & mortar stores) so you can see why $549.00 at Starbucks was kind of appealing.

Had two lattes this morning. Ahhhhh.

[Engi-Nir]

Yup, that's the unit I have. Thanks.

Reg price at Costco: $1249.99. Costco has a coupon valid from Oct 5th to the 18th/09 for $250.00 off, making it $1000.00, (available only online at Costco.ca, not in the brick & mortar stores) so you can see why $549.00 at Starbucks was kind of appealing.

Had two lattes this morning. Ahhhhh.

How is the coffee aspect of it? does it taste like star bucks, I always add milk so wondering if the hotness will be exactly like starbucks??

[steeldoor]

I'm probably the wrong guy to ask, as I'm a newbie to the art of real coffee. I used skim milk which is all I had, and from what I've gathered from a couple of YouTube vids, one would get a better foam from a heavier milk like 2% or whole. I plan on getting much better at making espressos, lattes and cappuccinos, but this morning's rookie effort was quite enjoyable. I found that the single shot was too weak for the latte, and a double shot was perfect.

[shaneschofield]

Slightly off-topic, but I just discovered cold-brewed iced coffee and it has totally rocked my world. Best part is that the equipment costs a total of $0.

[steeldoor]

Slightly off-topic, but I just discovered cold-brewed iced coffee and it has totally rocked my world. Best part is that the equipment costs a total of $0.

I don't think I'd be tying into too many of those all winter.

[derslade]

If you put $649 coffee maker in the title, i wouldn't even bother looking at this thread. Most of us saw "brewing sale" and thought there was a deal.

In a recession, it's difficult to find a normal person paying over $700 for a coffee maker.

Amen to that!

[SyncMaster04]

How is the coffee aspect of it? does it taste like star bucks, I always add milk so wondering if the hotness will be exactly like starbucks??

It really depends on your bean quality. If you're doing your own roasted beans or really freshly roasted good quality bean, then it will make better than Starbucks coffee. Most of the baristas at Starbucks hardly have any skills to make good quality espresso based drinks. You can always use the milk frother to warm up your milk to your desired temp.

[txenglan]

Amen to that!

"Amen" as in, "that is so true" or as in, "wow, what an uninformed, stupid comment made by someone who obviously doesn't know what "espresso" is nor what "recession" means for that matter." Just curious. Time for me to go! Gotta power down this workstation as it really sucks up the power. Can't afford to be paying exorbitant electricity bills in a recession! Phew!

[leoben]

How is the coffee aspect of it? does it taste like star bucks, I always add milk so wondering if the hotness will be exactly like starbucks??

it tastes like starbucks, if you use starbucks espresso beans. the only time i used starbucks espresso beans was the first time i bought this machine and they threw in a bag.
hotness depends on how hot your boiling water is or how hot your milk is. you would drink either an americano or a latte, no? i usually steam my milk to about 160F because i like my latte extra hot. that is really hot!


at certain costco locations, they sell Illy espresso beans @ 9.99!!! that is a really good price, considering most stores sell for 14.99 to 16.99. i bought like 8 cans and 1 pre-ground (not a good idea though if you live alone, because pre-ground don't last very long). sometimes i buy my beans at a local coffee shop here in ottawa called francesco's, they are v.v.good. after using illy or my local shop beans, i can't go back to starbucks beans. they are more expensive but they are worth it.

[steeldoor]

FYI:

I have now learned that what is paramount in making a good latte or capp, is how the milk is foamed. I have found that using skim milk doesn't work very well for lattes & cappuccinos, especially if you want to finish off your drink with some "latte art".. 2% is a bit better, but the consistency I get from whole milk is much, much better. But, the method is critical too.....

Here is a link to an incredible article on making coffee drinks. It is very informative, and funny too! (See all 7 links towards the bottom):

http://www.coffeegeek.com/guides/frothingguide

[steeldoor]

Oh, by the way, can anyone recommend a good decaf espresso bean?

I'm so wired I pick up AM radio, and my friends get dizzy just watching me!

:D

Seriously, I'd like some advice on the dec-c-c-c-c-af.

[kontra]

which locations in toronto are selling those machines? ones near me have nothing :( and staff will not bother checking where do they have any

[hagbard]

Could buy a lot of Americanos at my local Italian coffee shop for that kind of moo-la.

[kamishiro]

Many people here are. It's just that they aren't bothering to contribute.



There is a deal. It is staring you in the face. Show me where you can get this unit for less money (or anywhere close to this price for that matter). As for the recession, unless a person loses their job (or is worried about losing their job), it is all psychological. The state of the economy has been this way for over a year. The media finally uses the word "recession" and everyone goes nuts.

Incidentally, this is not a "coffee maker" per se. Also, I indicated that other units are on sale for similar % discounts.


I totally agree with you. People don't look deep enough to understand what a recession actually means. I'm sure if the popular news outlets started off saying, the economy is booming and the future looks bright, we would have crawled out of it scotch free.

[txenglan]

Could buy a lot of Americanos at my local Italian coffee shop for that kind of moo-la.

Yep. You could probably buy one a day for an entire year. Come to think of it, if I didn't buy a car, I could probably take Ottawa transit for the rest of my life for what I would have paid. What a deal! :idea:

[txenglan]

I totally agree with you. People don't look deep enough to understand what a recession actually means. I'm sure if the popular news outlets started off saying, the economy is booming and the future looks bright, we would have crawled out of it scotch free.

Not only do people not know what it means but they also believe any information by just about anyone who cares to comment on such. Yes, you too can become an instant expert on commerce, global trade, the economy, inflation, stock markets, real estate and anything else that has to do with money! Take for instance my ex real estate agent, who claimed that, "Ottawa is different, separated and isolated from the rest of Canada and the world in terms of housing. We won't have any drops in property values because we have no connectivity to anyone else's economy or market(s)." What an idiotic thing to say. I got rid of her the next week after she made this statement. All she was interested in was making a sale (i.e. getting em to buy something.....anything)

[hagbard]

Yep. You could probably buy one a day for an entire year. Come to think of it, if I didn't buy a car, I could probably take Ottawa transit for the rest of my life for what I would have paid. What a deal! :idea:

Lucky for me, I only need one Americano a week, two tops. :lol:

[txenglan]

Lucky for me, I only need one Americano a week, two tops. :lol:

Well then, thanks for stopping by in a thread that is meant for hardcore coffee geeks, some of which likely drink 4x that in one night :D

[steve-0101]

Well then, thanks for stopping by in a thread that is meant for hardcore coffee geeks, some of which likely drink 4x that in one night :D

I got mine in June and I'm pretty sure it has already paid itself off via savings from coffee shops :)

[dudestr]

I bought the 4400 for $614 total - thanks op, sometimes I hate RFD for the deals out there...:lol:

As for the recession, if people don't spend how the heck is the economy supposed to start up again? I did my contribution and took advantage of some good deals.

[hagbard]

Well then, thanks for stopping by in a thread that is meant for hardcore coffee geeks, some of which likely drink 4x that in one night :D

Well, I'm pretty hard core, but Americanos aren't a daily thing. Used to roast my own beans, which is pretty hard core...at least, my wife thought so. :lol:

[andyp]

Nah, roasting your own is the only way to go. Keep those beans <1 week old and you'll be a happy camper. Popcorn poppers are a dime a dozen.

[jheb]

I just picked one up at Ironwood Starbucks in Richmond, BC -$549 and they threw in a pound of beans and a free coffee. I must have phoned 30 stores. A lot of the managers had very good things to say about this machine. It looks awesome, I will let you know when I figure it out :D. Thanks!

[hagbard]

Nah, roasting your own is the only way to go. Keep those beans <1 week old and you'll be a happy camper. Popcorn poppers are a dime a dozen.

Used to be, now have to pay at least 50c for one. :lol:

[steve-0101]

I just picked one up at Ironwood Starbucks in Richmond, BC -$549 and they threw in a pound of beans and a free coffee. I must have phoned 30 stores. A lot of the managers had very good things to say about this machine. It looks awesome, I will let you know when I figure it out :D. Thanks!

Do yourself a favor and toss those beans and pick up some good ones. Makes all the difference.

[sbivol]

Any locations in GTA selling this delonghi machine?

[npracer]

Any locations in GTA selling this delonghi machine?

After a lot of phoning, I found that the downtown store on King at Yonge has it. They still had a couple left when I picked up mine on Monday. The manager also threw in 2 bags of beans.

[dereky]

After a lot of phoning, I found that the downtown store on King at Yonge has it. They still had a couple left when I picked up mine on Monday. The manager also threw in 2 bags of beans.

Did you pick it up this past Monday? Does that mean the sale is still on? How much did you pay for it?

[pizzaface]

Did you pick it up this past Monday? Does that mean the sale is still on? How much did you pay for it?

I picked up the last one at the Yonge and King location. $549

[Captain Snazzypants]

Oh, by the way, can anyone recommend a good decaf espresso bean?

I'm so wired I pick up AM radio, and my friends get dizzy just watching me!

:D

Seriously, I'd like some advice on the dec-c-c-c-c-af.

:D:twisted::D Very funny. You just saved me a cup with the laugh I got from that...

I totally agree with you. People don't look deep enough to understand what a recession actually means. I'm sure if the popular news outlets started off saying, the economy is booming and the future looks bright, we would have crawled out of it scotch free.

I am rarely scotch-free, but I think it's the stress at work to blame... :twisted:

[steeldoor]

^^^ *pounds desk* LOL

[Engi-Nir]

Any locations in GTA selling this delonghi machine?

Hwy 7/Bayview location has it

[steeldoor]

Any locations in GTA selling this delonghi machine?

Grand Theft Auto?

Greater Timmins Area?

[rf134a]

Greater Toronto Area, you know, the centre of the universe. ;)

[kontra]

Hwy 7/Bayview location has it

sorry, do you have an address or phone number - can't find it :(

[Engi-Nir]

sorry, do you have an address or phone number - can't find it :(

http://home.flash.net/~ral1/starbucks/images14/DSCN14803.jpg

Bayview & Hwy 7
8750 Bayview Avenue
Unit 1
Richmond Hill, Ontario L4B 4V9
905-881-9594

[kontra]

http://home.flash.net/~ral1/starbucks/images14/DSCN14803.jpg

Bayview & Hwy 7
8750 Bayview Avenue
Unit 1
Richmond Hill, Ontario L4B 4V9
905-881-9594

thank you so much!!!

[trellaine201]

I was in a starbucks today asking about this machine. she showed me the order book and it retails MSRP $799US or $899CDN.

So $549 is a nice deal. I am awaiting a call back on the availability.

[steeldoor]

The label on my box had $1399.00 on it as reg price. This was not a label made in-store, and I'm sure it was full-on MSRP, but still, killer deal.

Did I mention that I just completed another sweater and I don't even know how to knit, and I can now take a picture of myself from 10 feet away without using the timer?

[kontra]

bought one on a bayview!!! got a bag of expresso beans to go with it for free (had to tell cachier my friends got it - and he gave me one too)

LATTE TIME :)

[steeldoor]

bought one on a bayview!!! got a bag of expresso beans to go with it for free (had to tell cachier my friends got it - and he gave me one too)

Cool. Yes, one gets a free pound of beans with purchase.

Soon you too will be walking 20 miles on your treadmill before realizing that it's not plugged in.

BTW: It's espresso, not expresso!

[D2K8]

I picked one up today at Yonge & Finch Starbucks. I think t was their last one though.

Got me some free beans as well. They are OK.

[txenglan]

Earlier in this thread, there was some discussion about experiences with beans for espresso, especially when using the 4400 model. I provided some feedback wrt my experiences with using Starbucks, Bridge Head, Second cup and Kicking Horse beans and suggested that Kicking Horse is likely the best value, considering dollar to consistency ratio. Since then, I have also tried some interesting beans from a local Italian specialty shop called "Nicastros" (I shop here for cheeses primarily). The latest beans of worthy mention that I have tried from there are:

Paesemio Red Symphony

Got 1Kg for $12.99. IMO, a good deal. These beans are as good as the Kicking Horse espresso roast beans, almost as good as the best Second Cup beans I have had (which have been hit and miss) generally better than the Starbucks beans and infinitelybetter than the Bridge Head beans I have tried on two separate occasions (of which I will never buy again).

If anyone has any recommendations for beans to try, please post. Btw, I have yet to try the Black Cat beans :)

[ironmikel]

Picked one up today at Tsawwassen with 1 pound of beans and a drink. Any tips for creating the ultimate latte would be much appreciated.

[WildPegasus]

Earlier in this thread, there was some discussion about experiences with beans for espresso, especially when using the 4400 model. I provided some feedback wrt my experiences with using Starbucks, Bridge Head, Second cup and Kicking Horse beans and suggested that Kicking Horse is likely the best value, considering dollar to consistency ratio. Since then, I have also tried some interesting beans from a local Italian specialty shop called "Nicastros" (I shop here for cheeses primarily). The latest beans of worthy mention that I have tried from there are:

Paesemio Red Symphony

Got 1Kg for $12.99. IMO, a good deal. These beans are as good as the Kicking Horse espresso roast beans, almost as good as the best Second Cup beans I have had (which have been hit and miss) generally better than the Starbucks beans and infinitelybetter than the Bridge Head beans I have tried on two separate occasions (of which I will never buy again).

If anyone has any recommendations for beans to try, please post. Btw, I have yet to try the Black Cat beans :)

Then try the Intelligentsia Black Cat beans. Best I've had.

But I can't believe that you'd find Bridgehead beans inferior to prepacked store bought beans that are who knows how old.

[txenglan]

But I can't believe that you'd find Bridgehead beans inferior to prepacked store bought beans that are who knows how old.

To be honest, I am shocked by that as well. I am guessing it has to do with the way that this particular location handles its beans. There is no way that they could be this disgusting unless the ones they are selling me have been sitting in a hopper for days on end. I think this may be what they are selling people; a collection of stale beans they wouldn't use to make their own drinks. :evil:

[kontra]

Cool. Yes, one gets a free pound of beans with purchase.

Soon you too will be walking 20 miles on your treadmill before realizing that it's not plugged in.

BTW: It's espresso, not expresso!

yeah, sure make fun of illiterate immigrant :cry:

had my first cup today - LOVE IT!

[020714]

I sent my husband to grab the last one at Bayview Village (Chapters). It seems the Chapters locations are where most of the espresso machines can be found.

At first I didn't believe that it was the same machine that Costco carries ($1,000 on sale), but seeing is believing!

[steeldoor]

Picked one up today at Tsawwassen with 1 pound of beans and a drink. Any tips for creating the ultimate latte would be much appreciated.

I posted this in post #167:

I have now learned that what is paramount in making a good latte or capp, is how the milk is foamed. I have found that using skim milk doesn't work very well for lattes & cappuccinos, especially if you want to finish off your drink with some "latte art".. 2% is a bit better, but the consistency I get from whole milk is much, much better. But, the method is critical too.....

Here is a link to an incredible article on making coffee drinks. It is very informative, and funny too! (See all 7 links towards the bottom):

http://www.coffeegeek.com/guides/frothingguide



A few tips:

- Put your stainless milk container that you will foam in, in the freezer for 5-10 minutes to get it cool.


- Use COLD milk, preferably 2% or whole. (you can mix 'em too).


- Pre-warm your coffee cup with HOT water.


- Step 1) Place a glass or whatever under the frother spout, and turn the frother dial on your machine to the full left until it produces steam only. Then shut it off & remove glass.


- 2) Place your pre-warmed cup (empty) under the espresso spout, and push the double-shot button on your machine.


- 3) Once it has finished pouring your espresso shot, wait for the machine's message to change, then quickly turn the foamer dial again to full left position until you get steam only (this should be nearly instant now because we already purged 95% of the water in step 1).


- 4) Bring your stainless jug of milk under the foaming spout (you don't need much milk for one latte as the milk will pretty much triple in volume), and allow the tip to be near the surface, intermitently gasping a little air. This foams your milk. But don't do it too much, just subtly or you'll get big bubbles (bad).


- 5) Once your milk reaches 100 degrees (yes, you must use a thermometer) then sink the spout deep into the milk (but not past the ridge line on the spout). You shouldn't move the jug up & down, just hold it on an angle so that there is a swirling motion in the milk.


- 6) Once you reach 150 degrees, shut off the steamer, remove milk from under spout.


- 7) Bang the container of milk on a hard surface, like on a wooden cutting board. This gets rid of any undesirable large bubbles.


- 8) Pour this foamed milk over your espresso shot until cup is full, and enjoy!




The art of producing really cool designs ("Latte Art") is a whole other thing. For now, I just make a spiral with chocolate syrup (using a plastic bottle with a fine pouring spout) and enjoy.

http://images.bidorbuy.co.za/user_images/264/302DSCN1139.JPG

Or just a dash of cinnamon, or coco powder.



On your first sip, be sure to get some foam on the tip of your nose and then just start talking seriously to the nearest person about something, and watch 'em laugh.


.

[trellaine201]

I tried calling quite a few stores in the south granville area and most either don't carry machines or they don't have it on hand.

Has anyone have any luck in finding this in Vancouver or perhaps a larger store I can try calling?

Thanks

[trellaine201]

Found one at Vine/4th. She said to pass on the word as they must have more by the sounds of it.

[alsonot]

I hope this isn't too far off topic, but I thought it may be of interest to a similar croud, kinda anyhow. A lot of you folks are all going to laugh - but I actually quite enjoy making Expresso/Americano like coffee's from this little AeroPress contraption:
http://www.aerobie.com/Products/aeropress_story.htm

You'll be tempted to dismiss it as just another French press, but the results and use case are different. For those with the grand hardware, perhaps you can consider this a travel companion. It costs about $30, and only takes about 45 seconds to use. It works well with many grinds, but I like it best comparatively fine, even though that requires a bit of effort on your part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AeroPress
http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/vacpots/aeropress
http://ottawafoodies.com/forum/596
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9siQ2y_sM9E
http://www.amazon.com/AeroPress-Coffee-and-Espresso-Maker/dp/B000GXZ2GS/
http://www.espressoplanet.com/coffee-and-espresso/Aerobie-Aeropress-single-cup-press-coffeemaker.html

[ironmikel]

Thanks for posting the links and tips Steeldoor. I'm off to get a thermometer!

[steeldoor]

Hey, you're welcome! Thanks to the Lattes, I can now type 800,000 words per minute, so it's really not a problem.

Yes, without a thermometer, you're in the dark.

One thing I forgot to mention, is that I only use filtered water for the machine's tank. I use a Brita filter container. This will provide for a better tasting coffee, and will also cause less scaling (mineral build-up) within the machine.

Giddee Up!

[txenglan]

Yes, without a thermometer, you're in the dark.

One thing I forgot to mention, is that I only use filtered water for the machine's tank. I use a Brita filter container. This will provide for a better tasting coffee, and will also cause less scaling (mineral build-up) within the machine.

Giddee Up!

Steeldoor, thanks from me as well on the useful post. I was going to post something similar but kept forgetting to do so. I'm still working on my frothing technique and there is plenty of room for improvement. I do the best I can with 1% as I rarely buy 2% or whole milk.

I'm using the filtered water from my old Tersano system and this seems to work very well. The water from the Tersano is so pure that I actually doubt that my machine will ever need descaling (or at least not as often as the counter on the unit suggests) but I still do it whenever it asks.

[andyp]

I hope this isn't too far off topic, but I thought it may be of interest to a similar croud, kinda anyhow. A lot of you folks are all going to laugh - but I actually quite enjoy making Expresso/Americano like coffee's from this little AeroPress contraption:
http://www.aerobie.com/Products/aeropress_story.htm


I bought the AeroPress about three months ago and love it. I never use my coffee maker now unless I need 10-12 cups for a group. AND, it's so portable that I never have to worry about having bad coffee on the road.

100% recommended!

[steeldoor]

Ya gotta watch this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo0hUmS6wVA

[EJF777]

That's funny! Thanks.

Ya gotta watch this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo0hUmS6wVA

[cheapshopper]

Finally got it today.

I missed the sales last time since I was out town for vacation.
This time, I got it $435 tax in.
:D:D:D:D

It was on sale, and my friend work in Starbucks, which get additional employee discount. With tax-in is $434.xx

But no free bag of coffee.:o

Will try it tomorrow.:D:D:D

[steeldoor]

Finally got it today.

This time, I got it $435.00 tax in.


It was on sale, and my friend work in Starbucks, which get additional employee discount. With tax-in is $435.00



$435.00!!!! Ohhh damn you...........damn you all ta hell!

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t172/Paddywacked/Heston.jpg

[Miguel]

Finally got it today.

I missed the sales last time since I was out town for vacation.
This time, I got it $435 tax in.
:D:D:D:D

It was on sale, and my friend work in Starbucks, which get additional employee discount. With tax-in is $434.xx

But no free bag of coffee.:o

Will try it tomorrow.:D:D:D

ARGHHHhhh!!!! I called around all weekend from Markham to Mississauga and no one had anything :mad:

[eman747]

I also pulled the trigger yesterday. For those in Ottawa, the Starbucks at South Keys in Chapters have two new machines in the front.

[cheapshopper]

ARGHHHhhh!!!! I called around all weekend from Markham to Mississauga and no one had anything :mad:


Try the one at Yonge and Egin Mills.
Last time I check, they have 5 in stock, but it was end of Aug.
(I didn't get it there, my friend special order one for me).

[robot123]

Just picked up a Saeco Via Venezia this afternoon, then got back to the office and found this thread! Kind of a reverse way to RFD...

The machine was on sale from $229 to $169, I called last week and the manager said they only have the (unused) display model and offered me 10% off. When I went in to get the machine, he told me that he would just order me a brand new one and give it to me for 10% off anyways!

So today I picked it up, along with an accessory kit (frothing pitcher, thermometer, measuring spoon, 2 shot glasses) for $212.49 with tax! He gave me 10% off the acc kit, too.

The location I went to was downtown, at Yonge & King (4 king St West). The manager's name was Jamie, super cool guy, and not just because he gave me a great deal!

Starbucks also gives a free pound of coffee with it, which I guess is a $15 or so value, but their beans are not really that great... If anyone knows of a place to get cheap Illy (pre-ground) or Ionia, let me know....

[mfrania]

If anyone has any recommendations for beans to try, please post.

I suggest getting some freshly (as in same day) roasted beans. They might be more expensive but (IMHO, mind you) the taste is worth every penny. If you drink lattes, try getting something from the South Pacific region.

[redleader]

Same day roasted? Way too much CO2 in those beans, best to let them degas for several days first.

[D2K8]

If you call around to different Starbucks you will find one of these machines.

I got mine at the Yonge & Finch Starbucks and found two more which were the last two at the Aurora Starbucks which my brother and father in-law picked up today.

Here is a link from Costco which is selling the same machine for $1249.99 which makes $549.99 super duper Hot!

http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10324611&whse=BCCA&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-CA&s=1

By the way, the machine is awesome!

[Miguel]

Woo Hoo! Managed to snag one today in Bloor West Village... the store got 2 in today... what a fluke!

Machine is setup, anyone have some advice as to what settings to use for a decent shot?

[mfrania]

Same day roasted? Way too much CO2 in those beans, best to let them degas for several days first.

To be honest, I have no idea what the level of CO2 is... and I don't really care. All I know is that freshly roasted coffee tastes way better than what you'd buy prepackaged. If you like coffee, you should at least give it a try.

[ptgraham]

I do the best I can with 1% as I rarely buy 2% or whole milk.


I've had much more success with skim milk than other options... it froths better for me. Also, using a stainless steel container helps tons. Mine didn't come with one, so I had to buy it seperately, but the difference was amazing. Apparently it has something to do with the heat transfer. I need to get a thermometer, but for now I've been doing fine without one.

Also, if you're buying one of these, try to find someone who works at starbucks to get it for you. Their staff discount stacks on top of this discount, making it an even better deal. My wife got mine last Christmas this way, and it was a super smoking deal.

[steeldoor]

I've had much more success with skim milk than other options... it froths better for me.

Gosh, that's the first time I've heard that. All of the experts have repeatedly said that skim milk doesn't work very well for lattes/capps. I was very frustrated with it until I tried 2%

[ipassgas]

I have no problems making micro bubbles / thick foam with this machine and skim milk. it makes such amazing coffee and you will want three or four per day... too many calories if you use 2%.

[robot123]

Just as an FYI to everyone, I bought the Via Venezia after reading tons of reviews, mainly on www.coffeegeek.com. If you're interested in learning how to make a really good espresso/cappuccino/etc, that site is an invaluable resource.

For example, on that site I learned that the Via Venezia's steam wand performs much better without the panarello attachment (the black plastic tip), so I removed it entirely, leaving just the metal tip. Now it's waaay easier to make great foam, and I am starting to be able to make microfoam with it.

[Political Machine]

Gosh, that's the first time I've heard that. All of the experts have repeatedly said that skim milk doesn't work very well for lattes/capps. I was very frustrated with it until I tried 2%

I work at a coffee store, being that I manually steam milk everyday andskim milk works just fine right after steaming. It is generally abit lighter than 2%, but serving both skim and 2% is virtually the same when it is freshly steamed.

[Political Machine]

I have no problems making micro bubbles / thick foam with this machine and skim milk. it makes such amazing coffee and you will want three or four per day... too many calories if you use 2%.

Skim milk also tastes like water, I can`t stand it. :D

[steeldoor]

What's your secret? It seemed no matter what I tried, when I poured the steamed/foamed milk over my shot, the watery unfoamed milk came out while the foamed section stayed put in the container.


???

[Political Machine]

There's.... no secret...

It's called a bar spoon.

If your anal about not touching the milk with anything, pick up the container and tap the bottom repeatedly untill the milk becomes infused with the foam.
Thats the italian way to make it really creamy

[steeldoor]

Care to expand on that?

[Political Machine]

To which part?

Using the bar spoon is easy, if you want to keep the foam light and retain its volume, you simply use the spoon to help you pour out as much milk as you need, then you may top off the top with foam together.

As for not touching the foamed milk, any conainer you use should be stainless steel, simply take it away from the steamer, hold it and pat the bottom for about 10-15 seconds, the foam with collapse slightly and then blend with the milk, you can than pour it without the spoon.

[steeldoor]

I feel compelled to comment on beans:

We went through the free 1 lb bag of Starbucks espresso beans, primarily for lattes, and quite enjoyed them. I have always been skeptical of Starbucks, but it was honestly very good.

Still, I was looking forward with great anticipation to opening up the (sealed) tin of Ily beans I got in Rome this summer. I had heard so much about these beans that I was sure they were going to kick ass on the Starbucks product. Upon opening, the beans had a very dry appearance, and lighter in colour, as opposed to the lovely dark, oily look of the SB ones, but, I was still looking forward to coffee heaven.

The first run through the machine (Delonghi Magnifica) just dripped out of the head, and required two clockwise clicks of the grinder dial to get the espresso shot to pour out properly in the classic "rat tails". I then proceded to make the latte in my usual fashion.

The first sip was a huge let-down. It had a dry, unappealing taste, and I instantly longed for the SB espresso bean. We have almost gone through the tin of Ily now, and will try other brands, but I think we'll also be buying another bag of Starbucks espresso beans.

[hagbard]

I feel compelled to comment on beans:

We went through the free 1 lb bag of Starbucks espresso beans, primarily for lattes, and quite enjoyed them. I have always been skeptical of Starbucks, but it was honestly very good.

Still, I was looking forward with great anticipation to opening up the (sealed) tin of Ily beans I got in Rome this summer. I had heard so much about these beans that I was sure they were going to kick ass on the Starbucks product. Upon opening, the beans had a very dry appearance, and lighter in colour, as opposed to the lovely dark, oily look of the SB ones, but, I was still looking forward to coffee heaven.

The first run through the machine (Delonghi Magnifica) just dripped out of the head, and required two clockwise clicks of the grinder dial to get the espresso shot to pour out properly in the classic "rat tails". I then proceded to make the latte in my usual fashion.

The first sip was a huge let-down. It had a dry, unappealing taste, and I instantly longed for the SB espresso bean. We have almost gone through the tin of Ily now, and will try other brands, but I think we'll also be buying another bag of Starbucks espresso beans.

Maybe you should head down to Paradiso de Stelle and ask him how he does it. They also use Ily beans and he makes a very nice Americano. Its the one thing I miss about Victoria.

[steeldoor]

I shall! Thanks.

[Mystix]

Slightly offtopic, I was in China this summer and experience my first usage of a super automatic. The machine I used was made by Gaggli, I pressed a button and saw the beans being collected from the top, grinded and boiled. It was one of the most delicious beverage I ever had.

But now looking back, what exactly did I have? Was it just regular coffee made a different way? I am slightly thrown off as the drink was not purely black like regular drip coffee. But I assume this is because it was made differently.

If it was coffee, how can I order something similar at like starbucks or second cup? Or can I only experience this by buying a super automatic?

[ptgraham]

but I think we'll also be buying another bag of Starbucks espresso beans.

I get my starbucks espresso beans from costco. 2lb bag is $13.99

[steeldoor]

Thanks for the tip; I'll look for them there.

[D2K8]

The Starbucks beans are just OK.

Just bought kg bag of Lavazza beans for $12 and they are a lot better.

[kontra]

The Starbucks beans are just OK.

Just bought kg bag of Lavazza beans for $12 and they are a lot better.

where did you buy it?

[ssainani]

where did you buy it?

costco sells them (queensway location)

[kontra]

costco sells them (queensway location)

thanks! will try

[trellaine201]

Has anyone goofed around with the "coarseness" of the beans on this machine? I am confused as it says it can only be changed while the mill is running?

[steeldoor]

It comes with the dial set in the middle, and that worked well for the Starbucks bean. The espresso shot should come out as a nice steady stream, like a "rat tail", not in drips. If it comes out in drips, then one or two clicks clockwise will remedy the output. YES, you should only make this adjustment when the grinder begins to grind. The owners manual is a little unclear when it says "when the mill is ON" - do they mean when the machine is on, or when the grinder is grinding? I play it safe and do it as soon as it begins to grind. This is mentioned in the manual, but yes, they could be clearer.

When I switched to the dryer Ily bean, it came out in drips and two clicks clockwise fixed it.

[trellaine201]

Thanks and also glad you agree with me. It just seems weird to turn this while its actually grinding. :)

[D2K8]

where did you buy it?

I got them at Concord Food Center in Vaughn on sale for $11.99 reg $16 but I heard that they sell them at RCSS for $11.99 reg price.

[pipolchap]

For some of you who are disappointed with Starbucks "espresso" beans, try using other blends in this machine.

I recently used their Komodo Dragon blend and it was fantastic.

I'm going to try the French Roast beans in this machine later on.

[pipolchap]

I have a question for anybody living in Toronto, what was your water hardness reading?

[steeldoor]

I'm not in TO, but that water-test strip didn't work for me. It didn't really change or do anything.

I recommend only running filtered water through your machine; like through a Brita for example. This will result in a better tasting coffee, and less calcification build-up in the machine.

[D2K8]

I have a question for anybody living in Toronto, what was your water hardness reading?

I have not tested the water hardness yet. I will tonight when I get home and post the results.

What was the result with your water hardness?

[kontra]

i have a question for anybody living in toronto, what was your water hardness reading?

2

[Smoothie]

I get my starbucks espresso beans from costco. 2lb bag is $13.99

Is this the red bag tagged as Kirkland and roasted by Starbucks? How does it compare to Starbucks store coffee and the Illy stuff I use now. That 2lb bag will last me more than 6mths as I'm the only espresso drinker in the house.

[steeldoor]

Is this the red bag tagged as Kirkland and roasted by Starbucks? If so, how does it compare to Starbucks store coffee?

Yes, I would like to know this as well.

[steeldoor]

A note on Starbucks beans:

As I said earlier, the free bag of Starbucks espresso beans I got with my Magnifica was great. I burned through it in no time. The other day I was at a different SB store and asked for the "freshest bag of espresso beans they had" (thinking that I would get the newest stock). They gave me a paper bag which I assume contained beans out of some bulk stock; I don't know, I wasn't watching.

This bean was not very good at all, so I returned it for the "off the shelf" non-paper sealed bag of espresso beans like the first one I got. (It is white & beige in colour).

Just a tip........

[turtle9er]

Steeldoor, do yourself a favour and hit up one of the many coffee roasters in Victoria. No need to get starbucks beans, they are not the best. If you are up island, go to Drumroaster, located in the plaza near Cobble Hill. Then you will experience a bean that has been roasted to perfection, and probably only roasted the day before. Once you have fresh roasted beans, you will never go back to the black oily beans.

[steeldoor]

Yes, I am aware of Geir. He has been at it a long time and is apparently the master. Next time I'm up there I will definately try his bean. Thanks!


http://www.coffeecrew.com/culture/37-cafe-culture-in-victoria-bc-and-the-island


BTW, are you suggesting that a dark, slightly oily bean is inferior to a lighter coloured, non-oily bean?

[iansmom]

Yes, I would like to know this as well.

Is this the red bag tagged as Kirkland and roasted by Starbucks? How does it compare to Starbucks store coffee and the Illy stuff I use now. That 2lb bag will last me more than 6mths as I'm the only espresso drinker in the house.


Hmm...well if you look at the beans, you'll see that that they look like they were roasted in the Springfield Nuclear plant. The beans are very uneven and oily. The oil is a hallmark of Starbucks roasting though. It's all a matter of personal taste but I tend to avoid oily beans and the associated acid.

I still buy most of my beans at Costco but I'm sticking with the Williams Sumatra or Espresso blends. They're very good value. I'd love to find a local roaster for those special occations that call for the absolute freshest, tastiest flavour - like Monday mornings. But for my everyday addiction, Williams is great.

To those who think $700 is outrageous...how many couples do you know who start the day off by hitting starbucks or even Timmy's. A modest $2 coffee x 2 people x 365days... and even a cheap machine will last 5 years.

[turtle9er]

BTW, are you suggesting that a dark, slightly oily bean is inferior to a lighter coloured, non-oily bean?

From what I have learned is that the oil is a product of the bean being over roasted. If you get beans from Geir, you will see there is no oily sheen at all. It also depends on your likes. I used to love kicking horse, but since drinking some Ethiopia Sidamo from drum roaster, I can't handle the taste of kicking horse.

[txenglan]

I just posted the following info in another thread but thought I might as well put it in here in case not all coffee geeks are paying attention to other coffee-related discussions.

I strongly recommend seeing the following documentary series as described at:

http://www.blackcoffeemovie.com/home.html

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0963976/

Excellent and informative series on the history and socioeconomic impact of "the bean" :)

[zrex]

Anyone see Delonghi equipment on sale in a GTA Starbucks?

[mec9t8]

Sorry may be a little out of topic, but since you guys are more experience in coffee related stuff than me, let me try.

(1) I am looking for a decent and cheap coffee grinder (adjustable setting for drip/ espresso grind), anyone have recommendation.

(2) I brought a can of Dark Roasted Illy coffee (the one on the right) (http://www.illy.com/wps/wcm/connect/c8e2518047372903ade5efc70dd3f0c0/caffe-macinato-per-MOKA-675x449.jpg) for my moka machine from my Italy trip, it tastes SOoooo good, but won't find any in Toronto, anyone know anything similar taste that I can substitute?

Thanks in advance.

[baxter]

Sorry may be a little out of topic, but since you guys are more experience in coffee related stuff than me, let me try.

(1) I am looking for a decent and cheap coffee grinder (adjustable setting for drip/ espresso grind), anyone have recommendation.

(2) I brought a can of Dark Roasted Illy coffee (the one on the right) (http://www.illy.com/wps/wcm/connect/c8e2518047372903ade5efc70dd3f0c0/caffe-macinato-per-MOKA-675x449.jpg) for my moka machine from my Italy trip, it tastes SOoooo good, but won't find any in Toronto, anyone know anything similar taste that I can substitute?

Thanks in advance.

decent+cheap+espresso grind don't really go together.
most cheap (i.e. <$100 grinders) don't produce a fine and consistent enough grind for good espresso shots.
If your budget is limited, but you still want a good grinder consider getting a manual hand-cranked grinder. Zassenhaus grinders are excellent.

http://www.greenbeanery.ca/bean/catalog/index.php?cPath=23_468

[abcsense]

saw this machine at a costco in burlington, WA for 499.99USD as regular price. I picked one up and it makes really good espresso.

[txenglan]

I am still finding that locating consistent, good quality, fresh beans in Ottawa is a pain. After all this time, I still have not had beans that were as good as the first batch I had from Second Cup (I've had 4 or 5 from them ever since with a range from mediocre to disgusting quality). Again, overall, I have found Kicking Horse to be the most consistent of all beans I've tried. With other brands, I have actually wanted to go back to the store to strangle someone for selling them as they have often bean entirely devoid of any oil and have made putrid espresso that could give Tim Hortons' mud water a run for its money.

If anyone knows where to buy good quality, consistent beans in Ottawa, please post!

[Keops]

If anyone knows where to buy good quality, consistent beans in Ottawa, please post!

Have you tried Bridgehead's own espresso blend?

[steve-0101]

saw this machine at a costco in burlington, WA for 499.99USD as regular price. I picked one up and it makes really good espresso.

Sad that its on sale here for $999, reg price $1249.

[txenglan]

Have you tried Bridgehead's own espresso blend?

I have. I posted my experience with it in this thread. The first outing was God-awful in that the beans they gave me were already stale and the second was better but not by much as the beans went stale almost immediately.

I just stopped by Starbucks on the way home, thinking that I'd give them another chance with their much-maligned burned beans. I decided to try out the French Roast as an espresso blend (their site talks about the types they use to make espresso shots, lattes etc..) but didn't get much help from them in deciding to do so. The idiots behind the counter kept insisting that they only use espresso to make espresso (speaking slowly as if teaching me a difficult concept), which, although that might be the case at that location, is not the case for all Starbucks locations. Furthermore, the way they kept looking at me (like I was an idiot for even asking about packages that had anything other than the word "espresso" on it when talking about grinding my own beans and making espresso) and insisting that they only use "espresso beans" and that espresso=espresso whereas French Roast= French Roast proved that they know nothing about coffee. Scary. Anyhow, I have just had 4 shots (yep, wired) of the French Roast blend and it makes for an interesting drink. I'm not sure I want to give a thumbs up or down just yet as I am still thinking about it. All I can say is that it is at least interesting and not stale. I've had so much stale, sub-par crap over the last few months, I had forgotten what a decent shot tastes like. If anyone else has tried the blend I am referring to (as an espresso), please post results/impressions.

[trellaine201]

Yes, I think espresso is the actual grind. Any coffee can be used for espresso shots. :) Results may vary.

[Smoothie]

If anyone knows where to buy good quality, consistent beans in Ottawa, please post!

My co-worker swears by this place...

http://www.morala.com

[WildPegasus]

If anyone knows where to buy good quality, consistent beans in Ottawa, please post!

Intelligentsia beans at Xpresso Cafe in the market just east of the Honest Lawyer.

[txenglan]

My co-worker swears by this place...

http://www.morala.com

Cool, thanks! Never been there!

Intelligentsia beans at Xpresso Cafe in the market just east of the Honest Lawyer.

Thanks. I've been meaning to try those beans but have been cheaping out on other stuff in an attempt to find something affordable that I can live with. It is time to try out some of these beans.

[pipolchap]

Yes, I think espresso is the actual grind. Any coffee can be used for espresso shots. :) Results may vary.

I read that espresso refers to the fast brewing process.

I mentioned this before, SB's "Komodo Dragon blend" was very good when I started using this machine. I just got back from Cuba, and I'm using some generic grinds from there, another winner. This machine rocks!

One day I'll try using so-called "espresso" blends, but I am having way too much fun using other blends for now.

[txenglan]

I've had a chance to think about and further taste the SB French Roast beans as espresso. In the end, I don't care for them when used this way. I think they are good beans but not for espresso.

I'm going to check out both places recommended (a few posts above this) in Ottawa this weekend. I'm excited about trying the Intelligentsia beans.