VIRGIN: Activation refused

[andreid]

I bought a used Virgin phone and was refused activation for Pay-as-you-go on the fact that the previous user still has a balance due on his account (and the phone he was using, now mine).

I did not have the time to argue too much but I will. Does their sales terms permit such denial of activation? What angle should I take to argue with them?

Thank you for your help. Cheers

[Ojam]

There are no sales terms you bought it used.

[andreid]

Not that transaction I am referring to but between Virgin and me. How can they refuse to activate a phone that used to have a due amount. Isn't a contract made between a human and Virgin and not between a handset and Virgin? Shouldn't Virgin go after its bad payer? Got it now?

There are no sales terms you bought it used.

[Vitulla]

Out of luck bud. They own that phone whether its what you want or not. being a CDMA phone, you have no options. Where as if it was a Rogers or Fido, they have control over the sim cards not the phones. You bought a phone in which you should of called Virgin to check and make sure everything was koscher. Sorry

[Ojam]

Not that transaction I am referring to but between Virgin and me. How can they refuse to activate a phone that used to have a due amount. Isn't a contract made between a human and Virgin and not between a handset and Virgin? Shouldn't Virgin go after its bad payer? Got it now?

Oh I always "got it" You didn't buy anything from them, therefore you have no terms with them. How do they know the phone has been transfered? If you want to argue with somebody argue with the person who can't pay their bills.

[iamnotamerican.com]

Not that transaction I am referring to but between Virgin and me. How can they refuse to activate a phone that used to have a due amount. Isn't a contract made between a human and Virgin and not between a handset and Virgin? Shouldn't Virgin go after its bad payer? Got it now?
They have no contract with you whatsoever. You want to enter into a contract, but just as you have the right to not enter into a contract you don't like, they have the right to do the same.

You're SOL as far as Virgin is concerned. Take it up with your buddy.

[Hunter316]

Any business can choose to not sell to someone. It solely at their discretion as to whether they want to do business with you or not.

[NG]

Out of luck bud. They own that phone whether its what you want or not. being a CDMA phone, you have no options. Where as if it was a Rogers or Fido, they have control over the sim cards not the phones. You bought a phone in which you should of called Virgin to check and make sure everything was koscher. Sorry

I'd assume he'd have the option of paying the former owners bill (however, I agree, even if possible that's a pretty ****** option). Either that or take it up with the previous owner.

OP - Do you have the option of threatening to leave neg ebay or heatware feedback?

[EmperorOfCanada]

I dont know the specifics here, but I know in the case of Telus the phone is only linked to the account owing for a certain amount of time until the phone can be used again. A friend of mine stopped paying his Telus bills, and he had a phone of MINE on his account when he stopped paying hsi bills.

Long story short it eventually went to collections and the phone was available for activation again after a few months.

Obviously this circumstance might not be the same, but you might not be *completely* out of luck.

[andreid]

My wife bought the phone, a BB, through Craigslist to use with FIDO not understanding that Virgin is CDMA. I immediately flipped the phone at the same price. The dude who bought it was refused activation and wants his money back. Having a too soft heart, I nearly fell luckily the wife said no.

Since then I have been trying to help the dude. According to Virgin and the Supervisor, the bill is too big to do anything special as I was threatening to go to Small Courts Trib.

Virgin wants me to collect the debt for them. Damn right!
Virgin admits that there is no mention whatsoever in the website about this situation (used phone refused activation for debts) and refused to give a copy of their Sales Terms (as I am not a Cust of them). I'll try to get a copy at an outlet or could someone forward me one).

Logically a debt is tied to a person but in case of a used car, if there is a lien on it the purchaser has to paid down the amount to enjoy the use of his car.
Has Virgin such thing of a " lien " on the phone?

Is any lawyer/student lawyer to help the dude? Please.

I am sure there is a way to force Virgin to accept to activate the phone.

TX




I dont know the specifics here, but I know in the case of Telus the phone is only linked to the account owing for a certain amount of time until the phone can be used again. A friend of mine stopped paying his Telus bills, and he had a phone of MINE on his account when he stopped paying hsi bills.

Long story short it eventually went to collections and the phone was available for activation again after a few months.

Obviously this circumstance might not be the same, but you might not be *completely* out of luck.

[EmperorOfCanada]

:arrowu: isnt it Illegal for virgin to be talking to you about someone elses debt?

[CSK'sMom]

Nothing new... the cable and satellite companies do the same thing with cable boxes and recievers. The money owed is tied to the box and they won't activate them. Lesson learned for the OP, always phone and check with the company in question.

[Stinger]

That seems incredibly ridiculous of them - that they would choose to loose business over another customer's debt.

Also - seeing as to how the original owner paid for the phone - technically the phone is not "virgins" as you say. Having paid for the device, the original owner legally owns the device and is free to do what he likes with it, including selling it.

A debt is tied to a person, not to a product - though as you say, in the case of a car or home that is different. but you also can't use a cell phone or most other material possessions as collateral . If I don't pay my electricity bill and sell the house, the new owner isn't responsible to pay the outstanding amount.

I don't have any legal advice for you mate - but you DEFINITELY need to get a copy of the sales terms/agreement to go through it with a tooth comb to see how exactly a debt is pursued - and to check if said debt is tied to a phone.

[TCWeasel]

The customer contracted with them for the service. The phone is tied to said customer. Thus the phone is linked to that service. Virgin has no way of confirming that the phone has been transferred to another person and that the original person is no longer the user of the phone.

Though it does seem rather straightforward from your perspective, it is not from Virgin's.

The company has the right to refuse any customer for any reason (within the legalities of the charter of rights, of course).

You could write a letter to head office and explain the situation, though that comes with no guarantees, of course.

Customer service may not have the authorization to end, suspend an account and if the phone is tied to an open account that could be a reason why there is nothing they can do.

[Ojam]

My wife bought the phone, a BB, through Craigslist to use with FIDO not understanding that Virgin is CDMA. I immediately flipped the phone at the same price. The dude who bought it was refused activation and wants his money back. Having a too soft heart, I nearly fell luckily the wife said no.

Since then I have been trying to help the dude. According to Virgin and the Supervisor, the bill is too big to do anything special as I was threatening to go to Small Courts Trib.


So your plan is to take a company to which you have no contract (of sale or service) and they have no obligation to you to small claims? riigght. Have you thought of maybe contacting the person who sold you the phone?

I hope the person you are currently f'ing over takes you to small claims.

[dolphie]

I'd like to know how his small claims case in court goes.
If he wins, it'll save me a ton of money! I can just rack a phone bill up, then 'sell' it to my husband, and my son and so on.
Then after that, we can work on friends and neighbors. Hell, they don't even have to know! I can just call them up and say "hi, i'm dolphs friend. I bought her phone. HOOK ME UP!"
THis guy is so smart! If he does this right, none of us will EVER have to pay a cell phone bill again!

we should SUPPORT this thread!

/sarcasm off

[bubble.tea]

OP., lesson learned.

Take away your wifes online purchasing privelages.


On another note., you obviously aren't aware, but non gsm cellular devices are tied to an account. You CANNOT do anything with such a device till the account is cleared. Suck it up.

It's like taking my sim card with an outstanding balance, putting it into your own gsm cellphone, then calling the provider and whining about not being able to activate MY outstanding accounts' sim card on your OWN new account...lol...ESPECIALLY when the "bill is too big".:rolleyes:.

Learn your lesson, and move on. The sucker you scammed also should learn their lesson....NEWSFLASH: OP you are a scammer.:D...SHAMELESS!!!!

[lorax1284]

The sucker you scammed also should learn their lesson....NEWSFLASH: OP you are a scammer.:D...SHAMELESS!!!!

That might be a little harsh, if the OP isn't lying about the fact that he never even tried to activate the phone himself before reselling it: if his wife bought the phone for the wrong network, and they IMMEDIATELY sold it without knowing the original seller had a balance due, that doesn't make them a scammer... well not really: at least the OP and the person he sold it to should split the difference... but if the final buyer saw the same Craig's List ad, they probably would have bought the device directly from the seller.

The OP should split the difference with the final buyer (refund half the money) and give the final buyer the contact info for the seller. The final buyer should file a fraud claim with the cops.

[NG]

That might be a little harsh, if the OP isn't lying about the fact that he never even tried to activate the phone himself before reselling it: if his wife bought the phone for the wrong network, and they IMMEDIATELY sold it without knowing the original seller had a balance due, that doesn't make them a scammer... well not really: at least the OP and the person he sold it to should split the difference... but if the final buyer saw the same Craig's List ad, they probably would have bought the device directly from the seller.

The OP should split the difference with the final buyer (refund half the money) and give the final buyer the contact info for the seller. The final buyer should file a fraud claim with the cops.

If I was the "final buyer" I'd say the hell with that and just tell him unless I get a full refund I'll go to the cops with his info.

As for the OP, assuming it happened the way he said it did, his best hope is that Virgin works the same way EoC said Telus works and then the phone will work again in a few months.

On an aside it is screwy that the plan is tied to the phone. Reminds me why I never had a smartphone phone when I was on CDMA. Cheap Chinese GSM PDA phones from Deal Extreme FTW!

If Bell/Telus/Virgin can't make sure they get their bill at the end of the month they should do it how Teksavvy does and charge the user at the top of the month.

[andreid]

At the suggestion of one poster above, I have asked that the buyer to write a nice letter to Virgin asking them to make an "extraordinary" exception, etc. send to the HQ in T.O.
Hopefully, he'll will be successful. I'll post the result. Thanks to all.

Still I am pretty steamed at the whole thing and for sure I'll continue to be a GSM-boy.

P.S.: 1. It's a shame TELUS did not take the jump into GSM before the Whistler Olympics as they were talking about. That would have shaken up a bit the expensive Canadian cell market.
2. I bought one of three Pearls and I think the Croat selling them had them all with huge bills. I don't know how they do it but some people are out there to scam purposely the cell cos.

[gilboman]

:arrowu: isnt it Illegal for virgin to be talking to you about someone elses debt?

no. they're just saying money is owing on the phone/acct before it can be activated.

[EmperorOfCanada]

no. they're just saying money is owing on the phone/acct before it can be activated.

Virgin wants me to collect the debt for them. Damn right!



(b) COMMUNICATION WITH THIRD PARTIES. Except as provided in section 804, without the prior consent of the consumer given directly to the debt collector, or the express
permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, or as reasonably necessary to effectuate a postjudgment judicial remedy, a debt collector may not communicate, in connection
with the collection of any debt, with any person other than a consumer, his attorney, a consumer reporting agency if otherwise permitted by law, the creditor, the attorney of the creditor, or the attorney of the debt collector.

[andreid]

Virgin said that I should contact the seller of the phone and ask him to pay his bills, then they would activate the phone. Doesn't that make me a debt collector? Why don't they let loose the dogs at him?

Virgin did not give any specifics, just that there is a big amt outstanding.


(b) COMMUNICATION WITH THIRD PARTIES. Except as provided in section 804, without the prior consent of the consumer given directly to the debt collector, or the express
permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, or as reasonably necessary to effectuate a postjudgment judicial remedy, a debt collector may not communicate, in connection
with the collection of any debt, with any person other than a consumer, his attorney, a consumer reporting agency if otherwise permitted by law, the creditor, the attorney of the creditor, or the attorney of the debt collector.

[EmperorOfCanada]

Virgin said that I should contact the seller of the phone and ask him to pay his bills, then they would activate the phone. Doesn't that make me a debt collector? Why don't they let loose the dogs at him?

Virgin did not give any specifics, just that there is a big amt outstanding.

Well, I dont really think there is much you can do. I just sat on hold for 15 minutes for you and from the answer I was given it sounds like the phone is blacklisted indefinitely until the balance is paid. You could do as you did and write letters or call and try to get a manager not just a front line phone rep, but in all likelihood they will not make the exception and you just got scammed.

Lesson hopefully learned.

[andreid]

OP., lesson learned.

Learn your lesson, and move on. The sucker you scammed also should learn their lesson....NEWSFLASH: OP you are a scammer.:D...SHAMELESS!!!!


That's the risk of buying from joints like Craigslist. There are more blatant scams than this case.

[gilboman]

(b) COMMUNICATION WITH THIRD PARTIES. Except as provided in section 804, without the prior consent of the consumer given directly to the debt collector, or the express
permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, or as reasonably necessary to effectuate a postjudgment judicial remedy, a debt collector may not communicate, in connection
with the collection of any debt, with any person other than a consumer, his attorney, a consumer reporting agency if otherwise permitted by law, the creditor, the attorney of the creditor, or the attorney of the debt collector.

you may actually want to read what you posted because it doesn't apply.

[EmperorOfCanada]

you may actually want to read what you posted because it doesn't apply.

You too may want to actually read what was posted.

[saltypig]

Lesson:

Don't buy CDMA phones from strangers it could be tied to an outstanding contract.

I don't understand why you can't just go back to the initial seller and demand your money back or threaten to take him to small claims court for selling you a phone you can't use.

Hopefully you kept that guy's contact info.

[threeflags]

Sadly it's buyer beware.

[gilboman]

You too may want to actually read what was posted.

virgin is/was not a debt collector, they were simply providing the status of an account linked to a phone. they were in no means a debt collector capacity when they provided the status of an account.

[mrgeo]

Phone is tied to an account, account is then tied to a person. You can't pull a phone off an active account without putting another one on it. So because that outstanding account is still active, you cant reactivate that same phone on another.
Just get a new phone, straight from Virgin instead. Im not familiar with thier prices, but Im sure you can get a free phone for a 2 or 3yr contract. Or a cheap one on a prepaid plan.

[EmperorOfCanada]

Just get a new phone, straight from Virgin instead. Im not familiar with thier prices, but Im sure you can get a free phone for a 2 or 3yr contract. Or a cheap one on a prepaid plan.

You really have no idea whats going on around you do you =/

[Vinman]

How in the world can the OP not understand he's now a scam artist ripping some poor guy off.

He took ownership of the phone, sold it in a legal manner, and is refusing a refund because, why? He's saying he was ripped off first? :lol:

If I was the guy who bought the phone off your lying ass, you'd be in some serious trouble. As in the police at your door and a court date for mail fraud. I'd easily spend the cash to teach you a lesson.

[Ojam]

How in the world can the OP not understand he's now a scam artist ripping some poor guy off.

He took ownership of the phone, sold it in a legal manner, and is refusing a refund because, why? He's saying he was ripped off first? :lol:

If I was the guy who bought the phone off your lying ass, you'd be in some serious trouble. As in the police at your door and a court date for mail fraud. I'd easily spend the cash to teach you a lesson.

No no, you don't understand, it's all virgin's fault, it will all get worked out in small claims court between the OP and virgin. Virgin is going to regret ever not selling the OP a used phone with a balance due.

[dolphie]

How in the world can the OP not understand he's now a scam artist ripping some poor guy off.

He took ownership of the phone, sold it in a legal manner, and is refusing a refund because, why? He's saying he was ripped off first?


Quoted for emphasis.
what a move.

"Luckily" the wife stopped you from doing the right thing? Nice.

You two sound like you're perfect for eachother.

[EmperorOfCanada]

:arrowu: :arrowu: lol. Put that way its pretty funny.

However there are plenty of cases in which I think this is stupid. Here is a hypothetical. Lets say I purchase a phone, paid for it in full (didnt get it free on contract or anything) then for whatever reason didnt need my service anymore and canceled. Then, my friend busts his phone so I loan him mine, he racks up a big bill in his name, on his account and the account gets closed/taken to collections or whatever. Friend obviously doesnt need the phone anymore now that his service is shut off, so he returns the phone to me.

You are telling me its fair that the phone I bought and paid for, which is in good working condition cannot be sold, or reactivated under my own name because of someone elses debt?

I personally dont think it is fair at all.

[zoro69]

How in the world can the OP not understand he's now a scam artist ripping some poor guy off.

He took ownership of the phone, sold it in a legal manner, and is refusing a refund because, why? He's saying he was ripped off first? :lol:

If I was the guy who bought the phone off your lying ass, you'd be in some serious trouble. As in the police at your door and a court date for mail fraud. I'd easily spend the cash to teach you a lesson.

Bingo

The op owes his buyer a full refund. Someone said split the difference?? Uh, why should the buyer lose anything? Buying from a stranger involves risk...screwing over a stranger involves risk too, you don't know what some random person you steal from may do

The op can take his issue up with the person he bought it from.

Nothing at all to do with Virgin. Amazed at some of the responses here, no clue at all.

[Vinman]

Fair or not, if this joker doesn't refund the buyer's money, and the buyer starts to explore alternative methods of remedy, the OP could find himself in very hot water and I sincerely doubt his current "my wife is a moron" defense would work. :lol:

People don't realize it, but you can get a criminal record for this type of scam, especially if you used the postal service to rip somebody off. Mail fraud is no joke, as several EBay wanna-be scammers have found out.

[EmperorOfCanada]

Bingo
Nothing at all to do with Virgin. Amazed at some of the responses here, no clue at all.

Virgin migh not be at fault for the situation, but it is still a stupid policy. They are potentially losing a new paying customer because a different person didnt pay THEIR bill. How does that make sense? Exactly, it doesnt.

Whether the OP should give a refund to the guy who purchased the phone off him, of course he should.

[Vinman]

Virgin migh not be at fault for the situation, but it is still a stupid policy. They are potentially losing a new paying customer because a different person didnt pay THEIR bill. How does that make sense?

It makes perfect sense, as otherwise you could run some serious scams.

Group of University friends buy one phone, Guy A racks it up to the sky, then hands it off to Guy B, who says he bought it on EBay and Virgin reactivates it. He then racks his bill up, and hands it to Guy C, who says he got it on Kiji...

See how that would work?

[EmperorOfCanada]

It makes perfect sense, as otherwise you could run some serious scams.

Group of University friends buy one phone, Guy A racks it up to the sky, then hands it off to Guy B, who says he bought it on EBay and Virgin reactivates it. He then racks his bill up, and hands it to Guy C, who says he got it on Kiji...

See how that would work?

That makes no sense. Trust me I am in the cell business and

A) First of all a credit check is performed on these people before they are given an account. Yes, even if they dont sign a long term contract.

B) IF These people are willing to mess their credit up, there is nothing stopping them from just actually buying a phone off eBay for $40 or whatever and racking IT up sky high.

C) If I rack my bill up to $XXXX and I know I am not going to pay it. I can simply create myself a mybell or mytelusmobility or whatever virgins online equivalent is and do an equipment exchange and put the serial number of a broken phone on my account. They dont need to know the phone is in 6 pieces. To them its just a serial number. Then when the account goes to collections guess which phone gets frozen. The one you actually used to rack up the bill, or the one currently on the account?

See how THAT works?

[bubble.tea]

That might be a little harsh, ...
There is a reason why I used an emoticon ;).

That's the risk of buying from joints like Craigslist. There are more blatant scams than this case.
again...you are GROSSLY mistaken.

The lesson you should learn, is your wife shouldn't be allowed to buy things online, moreover to go behind your back and meat criminals in dark alleyways for dirty cellular devices.

Follow these instructions for Bell/Virgin/Telus cellphones etc and you will be safe 100%.

1-Meet the buyer at the bloody dealership
2-Ask the Dealer to run the ESN/serial etc to determine if it is clean
If yes - buy
If no - tell the seller, either a - Pound Salt or b - Make it clean then I'll buy it.
It's really THAT SIMPLE.

Of course whether the cell has any defects or not is beyond the scope of that prescribed course of action, however THIS is an issue you'd face with ANY type of electronics.

This is why you buy from LEGITIMATE AND REPUTABLE TRADERS on recognized websites. If you chose to buy it from a Criminal who is committing blatant fraud (by activating through fraudulent means, cellular accounts, using them for 1-2-3 or however many months racking up an outstanding bill that they're never planning on paying, ONLY to find some SUCKER to buy the blasted device, and start all over with a new device) without having the remotest sense of mind to verify the friggin device ACTUALLY WORKS, before handing over the money...then you deserve what you got.

...You two sound like you're perfect for eachother.
Ouch....brought it on himself LMAO.

OP Just be thankful your lesson didn't cost you much more than it did. Move on., ground your wife, and call it a day.

[TakumiDC5]

It makes perfect sense, as otherwise you could run some serious scams.

Group of University friends buy one phone, Guy A racks it up to the sky, then hands it off to Guy B, who says he bought it on EBay and Virgin reactivates it. He then racks his bill up, and hands it to Guy C, who says he got it on Kiji...

See how that would work?

Guy A and Guy B are still on the hook for their own charges, what's your point?

Virgin should go after Guy A and Guy B through collections, plain and simple. Who gives a sh*t who owns the phone afterwards, it makes no difference.

How does locking the cell phone do anything to stop the scam?? Guy A can run up a huge bill, and ditch the phone in the garbage bin for all he cares. Guy B can do the same.

Your example makes zero sense.

[zoro69]

Guy A and Guy B are still on the hook for their own charges, what's your point?

Virgin should go after Guy A and Guy B through collections, plain and simple. Who gives a sh*t who owns the phone afterwards, it makes no difference.

How does locking the cell phone do anything to stop the scam?? Guy A can run up a huge bill, and ditch the phone in the garbage bin for all he cares. Guy B can do the same.

Your example makes zero sense.

Locking the phone makes it so the guy cant rip virgin off then benefit from selling the phone too. The scammer found a rube to sell it to anyway, not virgins problem. The seller might as well have had a broken phone and pulled a scam to sell it...which again would not be virgins problem. The op (or his wife) then wants to repeat the scam to make it someone elses problem.

Virgin is under no obligation to activate anything for anyone that wasn't bought from them.

Virgins deal is with the person who had the phone activated. They got ripped off, so they cut the phone off. Anything that happens after has nothing to do with virgin.

[dolphie]

^ because the way they do things now they are on the hook for one unpaid bill.

If they didn't lock the phone, they could be on the hook for alot more unpaid bills from one handset. Granted, ppl can still get there own phone and do the same thing, but this is about they only measure of control they DO have, and I can't blame them for using it.

There's people here who see his example makes perfect sense.

edited: that was a reply for post #43

[EmperorOfCanada]

^ because the way they do things now they are on the hook for one unpaid bill.

If they didn't lock the phone, they could be on the hook for alot more unpaid bills from one handset. Granted, ppl can still get there own phone and do the same thing, but this is about they only measure of control they DO have, and I can't blame them for using it.

There's people here who see his example makes perfect sense.

edited: that was a reply for post #43

Except that it doesn't make sense. Read my ABC post to understand why.

Heck, lets put it this way. Are you telling me it makes business sense to deny an activation on an account because the phone was tied to a delinquent account, but allow the new customer to get a BRAND NEW phone instead? Reactivating the old phone is good business for a telecom company, they dont have to subsidize this phone again, they can just get straight to the making profit part. Sure there is a chance this new customer will rack up a phone bill as well, but there is nothing stopping him from doing that with a brand new phone too,

Anyways those who think it makes sense obviously just dont understand WHY it doesnt, so I can forgive them that.

[zoro69]

Heck, lets put it this way. Are you telling me it makes business sense to deny an activation on an account because the phone was tied to a delinquent account, but allow the new customer to get a BRAND NEW phone instead?


Of course, they'll either sell the phone at a profit to them to have the customer tied in to a contract.

[TakumiDC5]

Locking the phone makes it so the guy cant rip virgin off then benefit from selling the phone too. The scammer found a rube to sell it to anyway, not virgins problem. The seller might as well have had a broken phone and pulled a scam to sell it...which again would not be virgins problem. The op (or his wife) then wants to repeat the scam to make it someone elses problem.

Virgin is under no obligation to activate anything for anyone that wasn't bought from them.

Virgins deal is with the person who had the phone activated. They got ripped off, so they cut the phone off. Anything that happens after has nothing to do with virgin.

If a scammer wants to scam, locking a $100 phone isn't going to do anything to stop them. And preventing him from re-selling a $100 phone doesn't do much either.

In any case, I do agree with this statement, "Virgin is under no obligation to activate anything for anyone that wasn't bought from them." Good point. Although it is bad business in a way, since they are losing revenue, and it doesn't change anything for the scammer.

[zoro69]

Locking the phone is the incentive for the bill to be paid.

[EmperorOfCanada]

Of course, they'll either sell the phone at a profit to them to have the customer tied in to a contract.

They do not make big profits off these phones. Some argue that they dont make money on the phones at all. I dont know which is true but IF they make money, it is practically nothing.

Yes, getting a customer into a contract IS exactly what they want, I can agree with that much, however they much prefer any actiation at all vs nothing.

No matter how you want to spin it, its stupid. Locking the phone doesnt get them the money they are owed, they have nothing to gain by locking it, and a potential customer to lose.

Locking the phone is the incentive for the bill to be paid.

I hate to tell you this, but it really, really isnt.

[TakumiDC5]

^ because the way they do things now they are on the hook for one unpaid bill.

If they didn't lock the phone, they could be on the hook for alot more unpaid bills from one handset. Granted, ppl can still get there own phone and do the same thing, but this is about they only measure of control they DO have, and I can't blame them for using it.

There's people here who see his example makes perfect sense.

edited: that was a reply for post #43

On the hook for a lot more unpaid bills from THAT one handset?

Think about it, does it really matter that Guy A and Guy B are using the same handset to scam?

Locking the handset is pointless, that's what credit checks are for. So when the next person shows up to hook up a phone, if their credit check is valid, it shouldn't matter what the previous user did with the phone.

A better example would be to compare someone purchasing a house (that was previously lived in). Let's say you moved into someone's house who hasn't paid their utility bills or phone bills. Do you think the Enmax or Telus should deny the new home owner the ability to hook up gas/water and a phone line because the previous owner hasn't paid his bills? Its the exact same situation. And the answer, obviously, is NO, Enmax would not deny you.

[EmperorOfCanada]

On the hook for a lot more unpaid bills from THAT one handset?

Think about it, does it really matter that Guy A and Guy B are using the same handset to scam?

Locking the handset is pointless, that's what credit checks are for. So when the next person shows up to hook up a phone, if their credit check is valid, it shouldn't matter what the previous user did with the phone.

So let's say you moved into someone's house who hasn't paid their utility bills or phone bills. Do you think the Enmax or Telus should deny the new tenant the ability to hook up gas/water and a phone line?

Or what if I sold my TV after not paying my cable bill? I guess bottom line is I and Takumi are giving reasons why it is pointless, can anyone give any reasons why this is actually effective? Can you explain how it makes business sense?

[zoro69]

I hate to tell you this, but it really, really isnt.


Of course it is, want the phone, then pay the bill. Don't pay the bill, lose your phone.

Don't pay your satellite bill, lose your receiver

Dont pay your cable bill, lose your digital box

Dont pay your car repair bill, lose your car.

[CSK'sMom]

Or what if I sold my cable box after not paying my cable bill? I guess bottom line is I and Takumi are giving reasons why it is pointless, can anyone give any reasons why this is actually effective? Can you explain how it makes business sense?

Fixed the above and yes, it does make perfect sense to many. Try to sell a cable or sattelite box with an outstanding bill tied to the account the box was activated on and see what happens. I'll tell you because we had a huge rash on our local yard sale and kijii site of just this. Cable companies won't activate the box and actually try to come after the person trying to activate the worthless box. If enough info is floating around about the seller the cable company may decide to let you off the hook to go back after the seller and buyers will get the police involved.... OP is trying to rip another person off IMO and deserves everything they have coming. Hopefully his buyer is smart enough to go after him for being as scummy as the person he bought the phone from.

[EmperorOfCanada]

Fixed the above and yes, it does make perfect sense to many. Try to sell a cable or sattelite box with an outstanding bill tied to the account the box was activated on and see what happens. I'll tell you because we had a huge rash on our local yard sale and kijii site of just this. Cable companies won't activate the box and actually try to come after the person trying to activate the worthless box. If enough info is floating around about the seller the cable company may decide to let you off the hook to go back after the seller and buyers will get the police involved.... OP is trying to rip another person off IMO and deserves everything they have coming. Hopefully his buyer is smart enough to go after him for being as scummy as the person he bought the phone from.

So your argument is that because other companies have the same unfair policies, they make good business sense? If people want to argue this with me I need reasons, not just nonsense.

[TakumiDC5]

Of course it is, want the phone, then pay the bill. Don't pay the bill, lose your phone.

Don't pay your satellite bill, lose your receiver

Dont pay your cable bill, lose your digital box

Dont pay your car repair bill, lose your car.

Are you kidding me?

You can't just 'lose your car' if you don't pay the repair bill. A shop would have to register a mechanics lien on the car, and follow proper legal process.

The whole point is that Virgin, does not have a lien on the particular piece of property (phone) and has no rights to it. Although I'm sure some small print on their contract will tell me otherwise. :lol:

[zoro69]

The whole point is that Virgin, does not have a lien on the particular piece of property (phone) and has no rights to it.:lol:

And they've made no attempt to take the phone. They are just not letting someone who has absolutely nothing to do with them use their service with a device from an account that owes money.

OP needs to refund his buyer then can do what he likes with the phone, use it as a paper weight, record a youtube video of him smashing it, put it back in the previous owners hands, whatever

Telling his buyer to write a nice letter to virgin is absolutely insane

If the wife hadn't been mentioned I'd have guessed op was a teen like Im guessing some of the other posters are. Surely any adult would understand enough how the world works and what their responsibility is.

[CSK'sMom]

So your argument is that because other companies have the same unfair policies, they make good business sense? If people want to argue this with me I need reasons, not just nonsense.

No, only you think it's an unfair policy. Many of us think it's perfectly fair. We also think it's good business sense. Why should I have to pay more for my services because the company needs to raise rates due to scammers? We happen to have 3 phones on Virgin and we're quite happy, but then again we would never buy used phones on a non-simcard network. Only a fool would do that without checking with said company first. ;)

[EmperorOfCanada]

We also think it's good business sense. Why should I have to pay more for my services because the company needs to raise rates due to scammers?

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here, and I get the impression that you dont care to learn how and why you are wrong, so good game to you, I concede.

[TakumiDC5]

And they've made no attempt to take the phone.

So why did you make such a nonsensical comparision, such as "don't pay your car repair bill, lose your car". :rolleyes:

[zoro69]

So why did you make such a nonsensical comparision, such as "don't pay your car repair bill, lose your car". :rolleyes:

Try not paying your repair bill and see what happens (Unless you are prepared to bounce a check or use bad cc you wont get it out of the shop). If you are planning to you might make an effort to understand the law http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90r25_e.htm

Try not paying any service bill for anything where its possible for the owed party to deny service or take it.

Its how the world works.
.

[TakumiDC5]

Try not paying your repair bill and see what happens (Unless you are prepared to bounce a check or use bad cc you wont get it out of the shop). If you are planning to you might make an effort to understand the law http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90r25_e.htm

Try not paying any service bill for anything where its possible for the owed party to deny service or take it.

Its how the world works.
.

Oh please, don't try and talk down on me as if you have some higher understanding. Your examples show you are completely missing this main point:

What does a previous owner not paying for a bill have anything to do with me?

If you bought a new house, and previous owner did not pay their utility bills, should you be denied hook ups to utilities? If you bought a house from someone who didn't pay their Telus bill, should you be denied a landline phone? Under your world, you would be living without heat, water or a phone.

You did make a good point about Virgin having no obligation to activate any random cell phone though. But good business sense would suggest that if the customer had good credit but bought a phone from someone who hasn't paid their bills, it would be pretty dumb to deny them activation, and hence new revenue, they have money and good credit after all.

[Vinman]

Guy A and Guy B are still on the hook for their own charges, what's your point?

The point is that it is EASIEST for Virgin to simply lock the phone, rather than opening the door to more potential fraud. It's simple, lock the phone until the bill is paid - next!

You seem to believe that Virgin has a mobile task force tracking down deadbeats and that they would spend money hand over fist to reclaim a bad debt just so that Mr Dough-head here could activate his Fraud-Phone. :lol:

[dolphie]

Think about it
Plain and simple
such a nonsensical comparision

Oh please, don't try and talk down on me as if you have some higher understanding
Oh, Hi Kettle!

[Vinman]

If you bought a new house, and previous owner did not pay their utility bills, should you be denied hook ups to utilities? If you bought a house from someone who didn't pay their Telus bill, should you be denied a landline phone? Under your world, you would be living without heat, water or a phone.

Actually, you pay a lawyer to make sure there are no liens, outstanding bills or other invoices against the house, and then have the sellers sign a standard contract making them responsible if anything is found. No one automatically protects you in cases like this, and if a renovation company is owed lots of money for a new addition or they owe 6 years in back taxes, then you better have a lawyer.

I've bought multiple houses and there is no way anyone would be as stupid as the OP's wife and just give someone in an alley a briefcase full of cash for a housekey.

Or they deserve what they'd get.

[TakumiDC5]

Actually, you pay a lawyer to make sure there are no liens, outstanding bills or other invoices against the house, and then have the sellers sign a standard contract making them responsible if anything is found. No one automatically protects you in cases like this, and if a renovation company is owed lots of money for a new addition or they owe 6 years in back taxes, then you better have a lawyer.

I've bought multiple houses and there is no way anyone would be as stupid as the OP's wife and just give someone in an alley a briefcase full of cash for a housekey.

Or they deserve what they'd get.

Those are good points, what about in the case of rentals? I've hooked up utilities once after the previous tenants were deadbeats, and I never had a problem.

[TakumiDC5]

There's people here who see his example makes perfect sense.



And there's people on here who think the example doesn't make any sense too. Funny how the world works like that, huh?

But thanks for your great contribution to the thread:

Oh, Hi Kettle!

[CSK'sMom]

Those are good points, what about in the case of rentals? I've hooked up utilities once after the previous tenants were deadbeats, and I never had a problem.


Probably because most utility companies will go after the owner of the property for the outstanding debt when a tenant doesn't pay. ;)

[Jaremy T]

Actually, you pay a lawyer to make sure there are no liens, outstanding bills or other invoices against the house, and then have the sellers sign a standard contract making them responsible if anything is found. No one automatically protects you in cases like this, and if a renovation company is owed lots of money for a new addition or they owe 6 years in back taxes, then you better have a lawyer.

I've bought multiple houses and there is no way anyone would be as stupid as the OP's wife and just give someone in an alley a briefcase full of cash for a housekey.

Or they deserve what they'd get.

Wow someone with real actual experience commenting!

The lawyers get the downpayment and mortgage, and you better believe they take their share, the realtor's and then the creditor's (banks etc.) before the seller gets whats left.

[TakumiDC5]

Probably because most utility companies will go after the owner of the property for the outstanding debt when a tenant doesn't pay. ;)

And they wouldn't get very far because any landlord would have a provision in their lease that would absolve himself from any financial responsibilities/contracts taken on by the tenant ;)

[CSK'sMom]

And they wouldn't get very far because any landlord would have a provision in their lease that would absolve himself from any financial responsibilities/contracts taken on by the tenant ;)

LMAO! What the hell does a lease with a tenant have to do with outstanding bills on a property you own? Utility companies don't care who the hell leases a property, ultimately it's the property owner who is on the hook if the bill doesn't get paid. Ask any landlord that's been stung...

[TakumiDC5]

LMAO! What the hell does a lease with a tenant have to do with outstanding bills on a property you own? Utility companies don't care who the hell leases a property, ultimately it's the property owner who is on the hook if the bill doesn't get paid. Ask any landlord that's been stung...

Because the tenant is the one who signed the contract or signed up for the utilities? So yes, utilities do care, because that is who they would pursue unpaid bills through...

I was just going over a 50-page lease with my lawyer for my retail space back in October and clearly remember the presence of a clause that I am responsible for my own utilities and bills, so yes it is still a little fresh in my mind... although I'm definitely not a lawyer or landlord myself.

This is what a quick google search turned up for me, although it would definitely depend on if your City's utilities are publicly owned, or privatized.

http://www.justanswer.com/questions/1fgit-property-owner-legally-liable

No, if the utility bills are in the Tenants name the Landlord is not responsible for the unpaid bills. Also, the lease should clearly state who pays the utilities. The utility company will be going after the person whose name is on the bill.

If the Landlord does pay the bill for whatever reason, he could sue the Tenant in small claims court for the money paid, but there should be no reason for the Landlord to pay the bill he is not respponsible for.

VanDLaw -- Attorney -- 100% Positive Feedback on 137 Legal Accepts


Some city's bylaws indeed stipulate that they (the city) can pursue the property owner for unpaid utilities. The utilities in my city are privately owned.

[CSK'sMom]

TakumiDC5, that clause is only present so that if you don't pay the utilities the landlord has the legal right to go after you. With that clause it's essentially a slam dunk in court. Ultimately the utility companies can and do routinely go after the property owner when a tenant does not pay. It's exactly the reason why a friend of ours with over 60 rental properties both in Alberta and Ontario usually now includes utilities in the rent. He's been stung one too many times and ended up chasing tenants in court for utilities after he's had to pay them before a new tenant could have them turned on...

[EmperorOfCanada]

:arrowu: and you agree that that is fair?

[CSK'sMom]

Yep and so does he. Ultimately it's his property and he's responsible for it. It's the cost of doing business, in his case the rental business. He also agrees with the new grow house laws as well that essentially make a landlord responsible if their tenant operates a grow house...

[TakumiDC5]

What happens when your friend's tenant signs up for Shaw internet, for example, and racks up huge bills, and walks away? Is he on the hook for that? I'm just asking out of curiousity.

Or say the tenant signed up for Bell Satellite, and walked away without paying?

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me that the landlord could be responsible for every single little contract or service that his tenant utilitizes. The list would be endless.

[CSK'sMom]

Cable won't go after the landlord but they will go after the buyer of the box if it's sold. Read my previous posts about the rash of scammers we've had in Niagara selling bricked boxes. Satellite does the same (bricks the boxes) but also won't allow anything to be activated at the address till the bill is paid. With satellite severvices and rentals the landlord usually has to sign off because of the installation of equipment on the building. We actually went through that with Bell satellite when we bought this house. The previous owner had a huge bill outstanding and we had to get our lawyer involved as the dish and recievers were included in the sale.

[EmperorOfCanada]

The previous owner had a huge bill outstanding and we had to get our lawyer involved as the dish and recievers were included in the sale.

So you got the lawyers involved, even though you thought it was fair that the company wanted the home owner (you) to pay?

[CSK'sMom]

No, our lawyer was involved because we knew this policy existed and the contract specifically stated that all recievers were to be in the house in working order and the bill was to be paid in full by and on the closing date. They didn't do what they were supposed to do according to the contract...

[EmperorOfCanada]

No, our lawyer was involved because we knew this policy existed and the contract specifically stated that all recievers were to be in the house in working order and the bill was to be paid in full by and on the closing date. They didn't do what they were supposed to do according to the contract...

Fair enough ;)

[TakumiDC5]

I just spoke to a friend who rents out 5-6 properties in the Edmonton area.

He has had a few instances over the last few years where the previous tenants had 3-4 months of unpaid bills before they left.

When the next tenant went to hook up utilities, the utility company would indeed say there were unpaid bills. But all he did was send the utility company the terms of the previous tenants lease, and they were fine with it; they hooked up the next tenants without issue.

The utilities were never hooked up under his (the landlord's) name, so he is not responsible for paying them. Either that or the utility company just decided to be nice... :|

[professionaldude]

any update from OP?

[Vitulla]

when you sign a cell phone contract, the phone is the companies until your term is over. if your term is not over or is not in good standing, the phone is theirs, plain and simple. get a lawyer involved for a phone under 200$?
live and learn

[EmperorOfCanada]

when you sign a cell phone contract, the phone is the companies until your term is over. if your term is not over or is not in good standing, the phone is theirs, plain and simple. get a lawyer involved for a phone under 200$?
live and learn

Please quote me where in the terms and conditions it says that for any of the major providers.

[andreid]

The person I sold the phone has written and mailed a letter asking VIRGIN to be understanding and make a gesture. I'll let you know their answer.

Even though I wasn't myself aware of potential blocking (I've always been in the GSM world), a Craigslist sale is always final. I won't buy back or split anything with the buyer of the blocked phone. Not being an A@@hole, I sure have learned a lesson: stick to GSM.

Cheers

any update from OP?

[CSK'sMom]

The person I sold the phone has written and mailed a letter asking VIRGIN to be understanding and make a gesture. I'll let you know their answer.

Even though I wasn't myself aware of potential blocking (I've always been in the GSM world), a Craigslist sale is always final. I won't buy back or split anything with the buyer of the blocked phone. Not being an A@@hole, I sure have learned a lesson: stick to GSM.

Cheers

I surely hope you never try to sell anything here then because that lovely line in you post that I bolded will surely come back to bite you in the butt. Reputation is everything and you've now clearly shown where yours stands... :rolleyes:

[NG]

The person I sold the phone has written and mailed a letter asking VIRGIN to be understanding and make a gesture. I'll let you know their answer.

Even though I wasn't myself aware of potential blocking (I've always been in the GSM world), a Craigslist sale is always final. I won't buy back or split anything with the buyer of the blocked phone. Not being an A@@hole, I sure have learned a lesson: stick to GSM.

Cheers

I'm pretty sure Ontario has an expectation of usability law when it comes to selling a product.

Better hope nobody tells him/her to pay the $6 to speak with a lawyer for 30 minutes via the Law Society of Upper Canada's Lawyer referel service.

Anyway regardless you sound like the reason why I don't buy stuff like this from random people who don't have 99%+ feedback on ebay/heatware.

[Ojam]

The person I sold the phone has written and mailed a letter asking VIRGIN to be understanding and make a gesture. I'll let you know their answer.

Even though I wasn't myself aware of potential blocking (I've always been in the GSM world), a Craigslist sale is always final. I won't buy back or split anything with the buyer of the blocked phone. Not being an A@@hole, I sure have learned a lesson: stick to GSM.

Cheers

So you're a scammer, maybe the mods should look at banning you.

[dolphie]

So you're a scammer, maybe the mods should look at banning you
yep.

[iamnotamerican.com]

Even though I wasn't myself aware of potential blocking (I've always been in the GSM world), a Craigslist sale is always final.


Actually, from a legal perspective although the product is used and therefore in most jurisdictions would be an 'as-is' sale, in this case there may be issues about warranties of usability and the like so no, the sale is not final. The buyer is quite within their rights to take you to Small Claims court and would most likely win.



I won't buy back or split anything with the buyer of the blocked phone. Not being an A@@hole, I sure have learned a lesson: stick to GSM.

Maybe you should just pay your bills instead? What a concept...

[zoro69]

YEs I would expect the buyer would win, and the seller would be paying the $75 filing fee+serving cost too.

But I'd be more worried about screwing someone over like this in a local deal that it would be someone who would looki for other means to get even. Lots of people out there who wouldn't take kindly to being ripped off.

[TakumiDC5]

Maybe you should just pay your bills instead? What a concept...

You should probably read through the thread next time... it was the previous owner that didn't pay the bills, not him.

[andreid]

The buyer checked the phone for more than half an hour, incl. every key, etc. and deemed the phone to be functioning and in perfect condition. He and I didn't know that VIRGIN wouldn't activate it because there is no user market in CDMA phone like many said here.

The buyer should take responsibility for his mistake just like I did when my wife bought it for her GSM phone plan (I resold it at cost).

If you are a cry-baby, buy everything from FS and the like or be F#### in an organized way in the Ebay market and avoid cash street transactions. It is as simple as that.


Actually, from a legal perspective although the product is used and therefore in most jurisdictions would be an 'as-is' sale, in this case there may be issues about warranties of usability and the like so no, the sale is not final. The buyer is quite within their rights to take you to Small Claims court and would most likely win.


Maybe you should just pay your bills instead? What a concept...

[Lula]

If you are a cry-baby, buy everything from FS and the like or be F#### in an organized way in the Ebay market and avoid cash street transactions. It is as simple as that.

Yes, avoid them because there are people like andreid out there.

I really hope that the guy you passed this problem off to doesn't just let it slide or continue to screw people over.

[canabiz]

I am looking to buy a second-hand Virgin Mobile phone from a local individual. I obtained the 14 digit hexadecimal ESN # from the seller and called Virgin to make sure it's not stolen or the person doesn't owe the money on the account.

The Virgin rep told me the number doesn't come up in the system. I asked him is it possible the seller might have de-activated the phone already. He told me it doesn't matter if the phone is activated or de-activated or not, something should come up in the system.

He went on to tell me to forget about this deal and buy something from Virgin just for my *peace of mind*. Normally, I think it's a good idea but I didn't like the way this guy pushed his points across. It could be because of an incorrect digit (I get the ESN# by email) or the number might have shown up in his system but he decided not to tell me and wanted me to buy new phones.

I will call the seller later on today and confirm that it's not a Bell phone and that the ESN # is exactly as what i was told. This is getting interesting.

[EmperorOfCanada]

I am looking to buy a second-hand Virgin Mobile phone from a local individual. I obtained the 14 digit hexadecimal ESN # from the seller and called Virgin to make sure it's not stolen or the person doesn't owe the money on the account.

The Virgin rep told me the number doesn't come up in the system. I asked him is it possible the seller might have de-activated the phone already. He told me it doesn't matter if the phone is activated or de-activated or not, something should come up in the system.

He went on to tell me to forget about this deal and buy something from Virgin just for my *peace of mind*. Normally, I think it's a good idea but I didn't like the way this guy pushed his points across. It could be because of an incorrect digit (I get the ESN# by email) or the number might have shown up in his system but he decided not to tell me and wanted me to buy new phones.

I will call the seller later on today and confirm that it's not a Bell phone and that the ESN # is exactly as what i was told. This is getting interesting.

Explain what is making it interesting? You were given an esn, you called, Virgin said it was okay, but you dont believe them? The only interesting thing about the situation is how you are reacting to it.

*Rofl*
Okay I partially retract. When you said it doesnt come up in the system I thought you meant it doesnt come up as stolen, etc. Not that it doesnt come up at all. I doubt the rep would lie to you, but yes good idea to confirm with seller than the phone is a Virgin mobile and that they didnt mix the digits up.

[CSR]

The title is too funny! Cock block!

[canabiz]

Explain what is making it interesting? You were given an esn, you called, Virgin said it was okay, but you dont believe them? The only interesting thing about the situation is how you are reacting to it.

*Rofl*
Okay I partially retract. When you said it doesnt come up in the system I thought you meant it doesnt come up as stolen, etc. Not that it doesnt come up at all. I doubt the rep would lie to you, but yes good idea to confirm with seller than the phone is a Virgin mobile and that they didnt mix the digits up.

Nothing came up in the system, i called the girl and she told me she bought the phone thinking she could use it on the Bell system but that wasn't the case and now it's for sale. So basically the phone has not been activated on Virgin Mobile and maybe that's why it has not shown up in the system. I am curious to see why she didn't return the phone (possibly no receipt). She confirmed that's the correct ESN #

Sorry man but I've been buying and selling second hand phones since I got my first cell phone 14 years ago. I always take the *better-safe-than-sorry* approach. I plan to go see her soon and we will see how it goes.

[Vinman]

The buyer should take responsibility for his mistake just like I did when my wife bought it for her GSM phone plan (I resold it at cost).

Wow, something tells me you have a laundry list of criminal activities, and probably a record.

[luthair]

I'm aware of these rules, but to be honest I don't see what the companies gain by them.

Both cellphones and receivers are typically subsidized by the company, so when a user purchase hardware used it costs the corporation nothing. Essentially the company is either turning down a new subscriber who has been gained at no cost, or they're making an existing customer in good standing angry at them; at no time are they having any impact on the delinquent user. Does this seem a particularly bright plan to anyone?

[NG]

I'm aware of these rules, but to be honest I don't see what the companies gain by them.

Both cellphones and receivers are typically subsidized by the company, so when a user purchase hardware used it costs the corporation nothing. Essentially the company is either turning down a new subscriber who has been gained at no cost, or they're making an existing customer in good standing angry at them; at no time are they having any impact on the delinquent user. Does this seem a particularly bright plan to anyone?

How else are they going to protect themselves against someone running up a huge bill and then passing it off to a friend so they can do the same?

Aside from making all plans pre-paid I can't think of any (but that actually might be a better solution than what's happening now).

[luthair]

How else are they going to protect themselves against someone running up a huge bill and then passing it off to a friend so they can do the same?

Aside from making all plans pre-paid I can't think of any (but that actually might be a better solution than what's happening now).

Most services you're paying in advance. And really, as there are only a handful of cellular companies, how many times are people going to be able to do that type of behaviour? In the end these companies are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

[TakumiDC5]

How else are they going to protect themselves against someone running up a huge bill and then passing it off to a friend so they can do the same?

Aside from making all plans pre-paid I can't think of any (but that actually might be a better solution than what's happening now).

If the friend wants to run up a huge bill, he can get a free phone from Virgin and do it on his own. Why would he need a used phone to be 'passed off' to him?

[bdckr]

If the friend wants to run up a huge bill, he can get a free phone from Virgin and do it on his own. Why would he need a used phone to be 'passed off' to him?

We can all speculate as to Virgin's motivation for the policy, but the prevent-futher-delinquent-accounts-with-the-same phone isn't a particularly compelling one. You're right -- the same scam can be perpetrated with a brand new subsidized phone just as easily as an old one.

The more obvious motivation is to punish the person with the delinquent account. The person has already rung up a bunch of charges on their account that Virgin will likely have trouble collecting. Although Virgin will not recover any money by refusing to activate the phone on that account, they have just prevented that person from making more money.

The unintended consequence is that an uninformed innocent third party might still get ripped off buying that phone (which Virgin refuses to activate). Which kind of sucks ... but it's always buyer beware when buying used electronics. And the more that this happens, the less likely people will let themselves be ripped off buying a used cdma phone.

[EmperorOfCanada]

If the friend wants to run up a huge bill, he can get a free phone from Virgin and do it on his own. Why would he need a used phone to be 'passed off' to him?

I know! I just dont get how these people arent understanding. Are they saying the phone is cursed somehow? Like is this 'The Hardy boys and the case of the Cursed Virgin?'

You people do realize that once the phone is activated under the next persons name they get a different phone number, and a different account number, and a different credit check run on the new owner?

As I said in the previous post.. it makes NO sense for the company to do this.

[dolphie]

The more obvious motivation is to punish the person with the delinquent account. The person has already rung up a bunch of charges on their account that Virgin will likely have trouble collecting. Although Virgin will not recover any money by refusing to activate the phone on that account, they have just prevented that person from making more money.
How about that one then? ^

You two can spend the next 7 pages telling us how that doesn't make any sense now too please.
Better yet, just call virgin. You have SUCH a valid argument, they'll likely completely see the sense in it, and change their policy once they see how correct you two actually are.



And.....GO!

/popcorn

[sarcasmometer----> high]

[EmperorOfCanada]

How about that one then? ^

You two can spend the next 7 pages telling us how that doesn't make any sense now too please.
Better yet, just call virgin. You have SUCH a valid argument, they'll likely completely see the sense in it, and change their policy once they see how correct you two actually are.



And.....GO!

/popcorn

[sarcasmometer----> high]

Talking to us as if what we are stupid doesnt make what we are saying wrong. Closing the account and taking the person to collections, THAT is the incentive to keeping your account paid and up to date. Once the account is closed, what does the person care if the phone will work or not? Its not like he/she can activate it again in their own name.

As far as preventing the person from selling the phone to make more money I will grant you that. Oh wait.. how did this thread start again?

[TakumiDC5]

How about that one then? ^

You two can spend the next 7 pages telling us how that doesn't make any sense now too please.
Better yet, just call virgin. You have SUCH a valid argument, they'll likely completely see the sense in it, and change their policy once they see how correct you two actually are.



And.....GO!

/popcorn

[sarcasmometer----> high]

It was NG that brought up the same point that was already discussed for 7 pages, but you know, since he has SUCH a valid argument, we should just see how completely correct he is, and stop posting any contrasting arguments right? I mean, what do you think this is, a forum for discussion or something? The nerve...

[dolphie]

Talking to us as if what we are stupid


you were saying?

edited to add:
You can only make yourself look stupid here. I can't make you look stupid, nor can anyone else who disagrees with you.

Only you.
Little touchy too, I see :)

I mean, what do you think this is, a forum for discussion or something?
awesome. I thought so too.

[EmperorOfCanada]

you were saying?

edited to add:
You can only make yourself look stupid here. I can't make you look stupid, nor can anyone else who disagrees with you.

Only you.
Little touchy too, I see :)

I didnt say you were making us look stupid, I said you were talking to us as if we were stupid. You are correct though, as you just proved only you can make yourself look stupid.

[dolphie]

lol.
awesome.

[TakumiDC5]

awesome. I thought so too.

Really? You sure about that? 'Cause your sarcasmometer is telling me otherwise...

[dolphie]

absolutely positive.
Nothing but PURE awesome on this last page :D