China Goes Wild For CRappy GM Cars

[Kommander_KornFlakes]

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Please, somebody tell them that they are buying junk :mad:

GM sold a whopping 775,000 vehicles in China in 2008

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=efe_1234431459

[voodoo401]

After seeing the Chinese designed cars being crash tested I would too :twisted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5SRyG6UR2A
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Crash-Test-Chinese-Car_151645.htm

[bokep]

leave it to the japanese and europeans

no seriously

[KorruptioN]

The Chinese engineers like you over there won't even buy Chinese cars!

[Kommander_KornFlakes]

After seeing the Chinese designed cars being crash tested I would too :twisted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5SRyG6UR2A
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Crash-Test-Chinese-Car_151645.htm

Well sadly I do have to agree that chinese tin-can cars are inferior to GM crap cars :o

[AudiDude]

They are cheap metal. They melt them for scrap and make four cars out of one and sell them...

[danfromwaterloo]

As bad as many people on here feel GM is, they are only inferior because there are better cars available to us. In China, GM is wayyyyyy better than Geely or other Chinese-made deathtraps

[JAC]

Well sadly I do have to agree that chinese tin-can cars are inferior to GM crap cars :o

I thought you were too young to drive. How could you possibly know?

[Hairball]

You can still buy lots of GM cars with a 6 figure salary. Even more Chinese ones.

[nornet]

So GM has about 10% of the market. Not bad. What's your point?

[Emancipated]

What's the domestic market share in NA? Ok, keep it simple and just Canada? Canada being very multicultural and some what on the forefront of technology savviness; an avant-garde culture, I suspect the market share for Japanese imports dwindles that of the domestic brand. Aren't we largely to credit for the Civic's success?

[teknoluv]

GM sold a whopping 775,000 vehicles in China in 2008
It's interesting that you read (decode) the same piece of news in a different manner. Or is that the fault of BBC?

This is what really made the news:

China monthly auto sales overtake US for 1st time (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jnLvATfENcYIMMfdPa2_raXimdNQD96906M00) (Associated Press)

I'm actually more interested in how GM would shift its market attention to where the money goes.

[SkiD]

-
Please, somebody tell them that they are buying junk :mad:

GM sold a whopping 775,000 vehicles in China in 2008


You do realize that not everything GM (or Ford/Chrysler) make is 'junk' and not everything made by Toyota (Honda/Nissan/etc.) is perfect. If people would do research they might actually buy vehicles that match their lifestyle instead of just being sheep and buy something because they once made a better product than someone else.

I congratulate the Japanese for raising the bar on vehicle reliability, but I loathe them for removing the soul from vehicles.

What's the domestic market share in NA? Ok, keep it simple and just Canada? Canada being very multicultural and some what on the forefront of technology savviness; an avant-garde culture, I suspect the market share for Japanese imports dwindles that of the domestic brand. Aren't we largely to credit for the Civic's success?

Canadian Market Share
2008(January to December) - Domestics 55% - Imports 45%
2009(January) - Domestics 45% - Imports 55%

Market share decline in late 2008/early 2009 has more to do with financial crisis and uncertainty than brand/model preference.

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

OP, did you know that in Europe, Ford sells more Ford Focuses alone than all of Honda Europe's models put together?

Europeans and Chinese are just not sophisticated car consumers like you are. You really should go over there and tell them. Bring them out of their benighted ignorance with your superior North American taste! :lol:

[stuntman]

What's the domestic market share in NA? Ok, keep it simple and just Canada? Canada being very multicultural and some what on the forefront of technology savviness; an avant-garde culture, I suspect the market share for Japanese imports dwindles that of the domestic brand. Aren't we largely to credit for the Civic's success?

Honda gets credit for the civic's success.

When you get a good meal made fo you do you take credit for that too?

[chrome_dout]

They should be happy that GM doesn't make their cars out of a melamine. :lol:

[camber]

GM current crop of cars are decent, I wouldn't call them "crappy".

It's too bad that people remember the two decades that GM made crap and rested on its laurels. They finally seem to be turning the corner on their product and they can't catch a break.

[airodus]

I'm Chinese and I just bought GM. :eek:

[malecoke]

Altho we might we GM as "bad" cars, its excellent when compared with what Chinese automakers have to offer.

[AirBosh]

I'm Chinese and I just bought GM. :eek:

A Chinese friend from mainland once told me the Patriotic mainlanders buy American cars and boycott Japanese cars because of what they did in WW2.

I wonder if Jewish people do the same for German cars?

[coolspot]

A Chinese friend from mainland once told me the Patriotic mainlanders buy American cars and boycott Japanese cars because of what they did in WW2.

I wonder if Jewish people do the same for German cars?


The Germans apologized. The Japanese deny.

But Japanese cars are good, my next car will probably be Japanese or German :s

[Jon Lai]

A Chinese friend from mainland once told me the Patriotic mainlanders buy American cars and boycott Japanese cars because of what they did in WW2.

I wonder if Jewish people do the same for German cars?

That's stupid. Screw that - I'm from Hong Kong and hate the mainland anyways XD With a passion too. Can't stand how the officials take 1hr to say what I can recite in 5 minutes.

[airodus]

A Chinese friend from mainland once told me the Patriotic mainlanders buy American cars and boycott Japanese cars because of what they did in WW2.

I wonder if Jewish people do the same for German cars?

Yes they do. Germany is Israel's second largest trading partner after the US (obviously). I know many Jews driving BMW, Audi and Mercedes.

China is a funny market. I think they believe that German and American cars are more luxurious than Japanese (maybe because of distance). Then again, people in NA seem to snub their noses at American cars too. I doubt it's a racial thing since HK has taken well to Japanese products, and they were occupied in WW2. Anyways, they sell some pretty strange cars in China, all behind brand marketing (expensive chasis, cheap parts... ie Audi A8 with a 4 banger).

[Engi-Nir]

Totally agree man, All north american cars are POS (includes: Accord/camry/civic/corolla/etc), good post man

[airodus]

OK I just visited the Audi China website to see if things have changed. Nope. The base A4 2.0T has a 180hp engine (it's 211hp here). They offer the A5 in FWD and 2.0T trims (minimum here is AWD and 3.2L engine).

The kicker...

Fully loaded Audi A4 in China is $100,000 Canadian (539,000 RMB)! That's almost twice as much as here. No wonder why they have to offer crappier specs, they are charging twice as much for them!

Be interesting to check out the American and Japanese prices. Maybe GM isn't gouging them as much as the competitors.

[BartBandy]

They should be happy that GM doesn't make their cars out of a melamine. :lol:

Dammit, I wanted to make the first melamine reference.

[Tomy]

i remember seeing GMs and Ford everywhere in china like 10 years ago..but slowly losing its ground

follow by the Nissan Bluebird (altima) everywhere, then followed by VW everywhere in China, lately, ever since Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai built plants there..those three emerges instead.

[woodstock827]

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but people in China seems to believe that the Japanese products sent to China is not as good quality as what the rest of the world get.

[slowtyper]

When I lived in Shanghai I very rarely saw Japanese cars. Even crappy Honda's were a pretty rare occurance.

Tons of VW and audi though.

I never heard anyone say Japanese cars sent to China were worse...I just heard everyone say they hated the Japanese.

[thephenom]

OK I just visited the Audi China website to see if things have changed. Nope. The base A4 2.0T has a 180hp engine (it's 211hp here). They offer the A5 in FWD and 2.0T trims (minimum here is AWD and 3.2L engine).

The kicker...

Fully loaded Audi A4 in China is $100,000 Canadian (539,000 RMB)! That's almost twice as much as here. No wonder why they have to offer crappier specs, they are charging twice as much for them!

Be interesting to check out the American and Japanese prices. Maybe GM isn't gouging them as much as the competitors.
That's probably because of import tax. It's not rare for countries to charge import tax on luxury items to protect their own domestic production. (ie Local made GM and Chinese cars).

[kon_kat]

China is a funny market. I think they believe that German and American cars are more luxurious than Japanese (maybe because of distance).
The reason for GM's success is mainly due to several past Chinese dignitaries owning Buicks:
http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2006/12/buick_is_popula_1.html

[SkylineR34X]

LOL RFD LOL...

I'm amazed how people just believe the Hondas and Toyotas are the best cars in the world.

Here're a few things to consider before you comment about the Chinese car market.

The Buicks sold there are manufactured by Shanghai GM. It is treated as domestic produced, so it doesn't get taxed as easily.
Shanghai GM produces a full range of vehicles, from Buick Sail (econobox), to Buick Excelle (Chev/Daewoo midsize), Buick SV8 (based on Montana/Venture), Buick Regal (previously same platform as Regal here, now Opel Insignia), Buick Full size based on Lucerne, and Buick Park Avenue based on Pontiac GXP.
There are not many joint ventures there that offer this wide range of choices.

On top of that, from time to time, when Japanese/Chinese relation gets a hiccup (ie. when the Japanese PM worship at the shrine for WWII soldiers), many Japanese cars get vandalized on the street, so many people are afraid of buying Japanese cars for that reason.

I strongly believe there's also bribery going on between the government and Shanghai GM. Reason why I'm saying this is that GM products has always be able to dodge the higher tax brackets. So the lower tax also help GM.

Unlike here, in China, vehicle are taxed based on engine size. 3.0L and above are considered luxury and get taxed significantly more. Years ago, when Buick first launched their Regal, it was advertised as 2.98L engine... I mean wtf is that... Anywhere you go, 2.98L is treated the same as a 3.0L. But since it is marketed as 2.98L, it was able to get taxed for the 3.0L and under.

[airodus]

LOL RFD LOL...

I'm amazed how people just believe the Hondas and Toyotas are the best cars in the world.

Here're a few things to consider before you comment about the Chinese car market.

The Buicks sold there are manufactured by Shanghai GM. It is treated as domestic produced, so it doesn't get taxed as easily.
Shanghai GM produces a full range of vehicles, from Buick Sail (econobox), to Buick Excelle (Chev/Daewoo midsize), Buick SV8 (based on Montana/Venture), Buick Regal (previously same platform as Regal here, now Opel Insignia), Buick Full size based on Lucerne, and Buick Park Avenue based on Pontiac GXP.
There are not many joint ventures there that offer this wide range of choices.

On top of that, from time to time, when Japanese/Chinese relation gets a hiccup (ie. when the Japanese PM worship at the shrine for WWII soldiers), many Japanese cars get vandalized on the street, so many people are afraid of buying Japanese cars for that reason.

I strongly believe there's also bribery going on between the government and Shanghai GM. Reason why I'm saying this is that GM products has always be able to dodge the higher tax brackets. So the lower tax also help GM.

Unlike here, in China, vehicle are taxed based on engine size. 3.0L and above are considered luxury and get taxed significantly more. Years ago, when Buick first launched their Regal, it was advertised as 2.98L engine... I mean wtf is that... Anywhere you go, 2.98L is treated the same as a 3.0L. But since it is marketed as 2.98L, it was able to get taxed for the 3.0L and under.

Good info. I was just dreaming about shipping a boatful of German cars to China and selling them for double. Guess that won't work hahah.

[Jon Lai]

LOL RFD LOL...

I'm amazed how people just believe the Hondas and Toyotas are the best cars in the world.

Here're a few things to consider before you comment about the Chinese car market.

The Buicks sold there are manufactured by Shanghai GM. It is treated as domestic produced, so it doesn't get taxed as easily.
Shanghai GM produces a full range of vehicles, from Buick Sail (econobox), to Buick Excelle (Chev/Daewoo midsize), Buick SV8 (based on Montana/Venture), Buick Regal (previously same platform as Regal here, now Opel Insignia), Buick Full size based on Lucerne, and Buick Park Avenue based on Pontiac GXP.
There are not many joint ventures there that offer this wide range of choices.

On top of that, from time to time, when Japanese/Chinese relation gets a hiccup (ie. when the Japanese PM worship at the shrine for WWII soldiers), many Japanese cars get vandalized on the street, so many people are afraid of buying Japanese cars for that reason.

I strongly believe there's also bribery going on between the government and Shanghai GM. Reason why I'm saying this is that GM products has always be able to dodge the higher tax brackets. So the lower tax also help GM.

Unlike here, in China, vehicle are taxed based on engine size. 3.0L and above are considered luxury and get taxed significantly more. Years ago, when Buick first launched their Regal, it was advertised as 2.98L engine... I mean wtf is that... Anywhere you go, 2.98L is treated the same as a 3.0L. But since it is marketed as 2.98L, it was able to get taxed for the 3.0L and under.

So China is corrupt. When have I heard that before...

[thephenom]

LOL RFD LOL...

I'm amazed how people just believe the Hondas and Toyotas are the best cars in the world.

Here're a few things to consider before you comment about the Chinese car market.

The Buicks sold there are manufactured by Shanghai GM. It is treated as domestic produced, so it doesn't get taxed as easily.
Shanghai GM produces a full range of vehicles, from Buick Sail (econobox), to Buick Excelle (Chev/Daewoo midsize), Buick SV8 (based on Montana/Venture), Buick Regal (previously same platform as Regal here, now Opel Insignia), Buick Full size based on Lucerne, and Buick Park Avenue based on Pontiac GXP.
There are not many joint ventures there that offer this wide range of choices.

On top of that, from time to time, when Japanese/Chinese relation gets a hiccup (ie. when the Japanese PM worship at the shrine for WWII soldiers), many Japanese cars get vandalized on the street, so many people are afraid of buying Japanese cars for that reason.

I strongly believe there's also bribery going on between the government and Shanghai GM. Reason why I'm saying this is that GM products has always be able to dodge the higher tax brackets. So the lower tax also help GM.

Unlike here, in China, vehicle are taxed based on engine size. 3.0L and above are considered luxury and get taxed significantly more. Years ago, when Buick first launched their Regal, it was advertised as 2.98L engine... I mean wtf is that... Anywhere you go, 2.98L is treated the same as a 3.0L. But since it is marketed as 2.98L, it was able to get taxed for the 3.0L and under.

I wouldn't say bribery. If you dig into opening a big business in China, regulations often requires these big "outside" companies to partner up with a domestic company. So technically, they are a domestic registered company with foreign fundings.

For GM, they partnered up with Shanghai auto, hence Shanghai GM. Similar thing for VW, they too partnered with Shanghai, called Shanghai VW Automotives.

While it sounds restrictive, there are some good parts about Chinese regulations. For example, they regulate gasoline prices so consumers doesn't get stuck with the constant fluctuation in price at the pumps.

[SimSV]

I strongly believe there's also bribery going on between the government and Shanghai GM. Reason why I'm saying this is that GM products has always be able to dodge the higher tax brackets. So the lower tax also help GM.

Unlike here, in China, vehicle are taxed based on engine size. 3.0L and above are considered luxury and get taxed significantly more. Years ago, when Buick first launched their Regal, it was advertised as 2.98L engine... I mean wtf is that... Anywhere you go, 2.98L is treated the same as a 3.0L. But since it is marketed as 2.98L, it was able to get taxed for the 3.0L and under.

Very good info but I don't agree with this "bribery" part if this engine size tax is the only thing you are referring to. If an engine of size 3.0L and above is subject to higher tax rate, what's wrong with 2.98L paying the lower rate? it is indeed smaller than 3.0L. I am sure other manufacturers can easily do this if their engines fall into the same situation. They would be stupid not to.

[gman]

Are those GM, "Japanese" cars sold in China made in China anyway?

[Hairball]

Are those GM, "Japanese" cars sold in China made in China anyway?

Yes many of them are.

[flexwong]

china is GM's largest market outside the US. why? japanese brands are still looked upon with disdain by the Chinese. there are still a lot of strong anti-Japanese feelings in China, which is a good reason why GM and Ford have been able to compete so successfully in China.

[CaptSmethwick]

china is GM's largest market outside the US. why? japanese brands are still looked upon with disdain by the Chinese. there are still a lot of strong anti-Japanese feelings in China, which is a good reason why GM and Ford have been able to compete so successfully in China.

On the flipside, US cars have a similar rap in Japan - that, and other trade barriers, mean that US makers have virtually no market there.

[ferkel]

A Chinese friend from mainland once told me the Patriotic mainlanders buy American cars and boycott Japanese cars because of what they did in WW2.

I wonder if Jewish people do the same for German cars?

I know lots of younger Jewish people driving BMW and Mercedes.
I see lots of younger Koreans driving Honda's and Toyota's.
I see almost every Chiense person driving a Honda and Toyota.
How quickly we forget the evils that were done upon us.

Anyways, give it another 10 years and the majority in North America will be riding around in crappy made in China cars. Don't say it won't happen. Look where our clothes, computers, electronics, food is already coming from.

[Menace]

Yes, all these cars are made in China. BMW, Honda Accord and Toyota. Only the highend models are imported.

Are those GM, "Japanese" cars sold in China made in China anyway?

[mr_raider]

I know lots of younger Jewish people driving BMW and Mercedes.

While wearing their Hugo Boss shirts no doubt.