BEWARE: Johnson Auto Insurance Raises Rates by 40%

[meme0123]

I did an online quote for car insurance with Johnson Inc. (they give discounts to employees of a number of companies). The online quote required me to input all of my details including details of exactly what coverage and amounts I wanted the quote to be based on. The final internet quote came to $1022.

When I called them to obtain this insurance I was told the true price was $1399 = 40% HIGHER !!! When I asked why there was such a huge difference the woman said: "I don't know - probablye you put in for NO liability, NO collision and NO comprehensive coverage". As I said to her "why would I do that for a brand new 2009 car?" I printed out the exact worksheet for the quote with all the coverage I selected and the internet quote but she refused to even discuss it. When I spoke to someone else who claimed they were a "supervisor", she couldn't explain the difference either and said she'd call me back. She never did call back.

It would appear that Johnson Inc misleads people by providing decent online quotes only to increase their rates when you actually go to purchase the coverage. BEWARE because you can simply click on a button when you do the quote to actually go ahead and purchase the insurance!!!

[peter__p]

The quote given on line was for liability only as i was told when calling in to purchase, they deliberately do that to attract business i guess. It happened to me 2 years ago the exact same scenario. It was just a waste of time for both parties.

[COSMIC5]

Not nice!

[Insurance-Broker]

There are many tricks they play do to get you in!

One more reason to deal with a broker and develop a personal relationship!

[deuce]

^^
until you pay your broker and the money never makes its way back to the insurance company
or until the broker says youre insured and then doesnt get around to filing the paperwork

[dealmeone]

Not to try to defend Johnson, but Allstate did exactly the same thing. They send out fliers that claim huge insurance savings, which are only meant to get you to call about the real cost which is always much higher. They always find some excuse to quote you a higher rate, no matter what your circumstance is. They are liars and they know it. They just assume that we don't know it.

A sudden increase in premiums is often just the company trying to pass on the losses they took on investments onto YOU. YOU pay for their bad choices and their bosses get huge raises and bonuses. They do not care about you.

[Insurance-Broker]

^^
until you pay your broker and the money never makes its way back to the insurance company
or until the broker says youre insured and then doesnt get around to filing the paperwork

This can be easily avoided. Pay your first payment on a credit card and rest on a payment plan ;)

[meme0123]

this lies and deception fool a lot of people. Firstly, I was of the understanding that liability coverage is mandatory in Ont (I could be mistaken).

Secondly, when you do a quote on Johnson's website there is actually a button to click on to buy the insurance right there and then. Since you've entered all the details for full coverage and they've given you a price, one would assume that if you buy based on that then that's what you're getting. The documents come and some people don't carefully review them or don't fully understand them because insurance is so complicated and come to find out when they have an accident that they really have no coverage. (Or even worse, what if you have a claim after you purchase online but before the documents even arrive in the mail!)

This practice is really terrible and proves how crooked they are! All I can say is DO NOT USE JOHNSON FOR ANY TYPE OF INSURANCE and Buyer Beware with all others as it seems to be a very crooked industry.

[Avatar]

LOL. I'd been with Johnson for 4 years and recently they increased my premium for several hundreds and I have a clean record. I called and was told that they increased the premium for everyone. So I checked online for quote.

Tried RBC and Statefarm kept asking me for a correct address. I just want to get a quote first. So I end up getting it online from Belairdirect. Excellent price should have been with them before. Price I obtained online is exactly the same I'm paying.

[dealmeone]

LOL. I'd been with Johnson for 4 years and recently they increased my premium for several hundreds and I have a clean record. I called and was told that they increased the premium for everyone. So I checked online for quote.

Tried RBC and Statefarm kept asking me for a correct address. I just want to get a quote first. So I end up getting it online from Belairdirect. Excellent price should have been with them before. Price I obtained online is exactly the same I'm paying.

You are paying for the losses that they have taken on their investments. It has NOTHING to do with your driving record or payouts for claims. They are in a business where they can write money and that is exactly what they are doing.

[J8]

I'm with Johnson's and I've been happy with the rate I pay for my car (3 years). I haven't seen any increase on my rates...if that changes though, I will shop around for something better. I do check online from time to time, and Johnson's rates are still cheaper in my case.

[dealmeone]

I'm with Johnson's and I've been happy with the rate I pay for my car (3 years). I haven't seen any increase on my rates...if that changes though, I will shop around for something better. I do check online from time to time, and Johnson's rates are still cheaper in my case.

If you do have more than one claim within a 48 month period), Johnson WILL both increase your premium (by at least 10% as they take away your 5 star safe driving rating) AND will raise your deductibles. This is effectively a double increase.

It doesn't have to be much of a claim, like a typical collision either. If you are so unlucky as to get a cracked windshield, within a 48 month period, Johnson WILL increase your premiums too. Even though such a claim is covered under the "comprehensive" portion of your policy.

If you don't believe me...check with them. I did.

[weedb0y]

LOL. I'd been with Johnson for 4 years and recently they increased my premium for several hundreds and I have a clean record. I called and was told that they increased the premium for everyone. So I checked online for quote.

Tried RBC and Statefarm kept asking me for a correct address. I just want to get a quote first. So I end up getting it online from Belairdirect. Excellent price should have been with them before. Price I obtained online is exactly the same I'm paying.

My brothers insurance went down this year with Johnsons

[Panzer505]

omg, johnson just increased my rate, i have clean record for 3 more years and upgrated my driver license last year but they just increased my premium payment anyway, saying this is for everyone BS!

[rems]

FYI insurance companies are raising rates across the board. Experience has worsened in the industry as a whole. Combined with poor returns on investment income, that warrants a raise in premiums. (remember it's still a business. They deal with risk...would you settle for 2% return on your money if you're taking on a high risk venture?)

That doesn't mean that EVERYONE gets an increase. Depends on the insurance company and how they wanted to raise their premium volume. Some can increase it across the board. Some can choose to target specific locations. But all these changes have to be approved by the governing body (FSCO if you're in Ontario).

And yes while you, yourself, has had no claims and have a perfect driving record, there are those that do not. And insurance transfers all the risk to the insurance company to pay out the claims. And in return you pay a premium to them. That premium should cover claims, expenses and profit. If any of those things go up, so should the premium no?

As for the OP, Johnson should correct their website to reflect their true rate.

[Debonair]

You are paying for the losses that they have taken on their investments. It has NOTHING to do with your driving record or payouts for claims. They are in a business where they can write money and that is exactly what they are doing.

No he's not paying for anything - he switched!! Same thing I would do if my insurance company raised my premium for no reason!!

[ES_Revenge]

They always find some excuse to quote you a higher rate, no matter what your circumstance is. They are liars and they know it. They just assume that we don't know it.

A sudden increase in premiums is often just the company trying to pass on the losses they took on investments onto YOU. YOU pay for their bad choices and their bosses get huge raises and bonuses. They do not care about you.
x2

This is how insurance companies operate, in a nutshell, in ON province. In the meantime the government sits back and lets it happen because they are surely making money from this arrangement somehow as well. :mad:

[ES_Revenge]

Some can choose to target specific locations. But all these changes have to be approved by the governing body (FSCO if you're in Ontario).
Yeah and like most other regulatory boards in Ontario I would not be surprised one bit if the people that have positions in there aren't people high up at insurance companies, or that have ties to insurance companies otherwise :rolleyes:

Just like OMVIC = Car dealership owners, LCBO = Bar owners, I'm sure FSCO probably = bank, insurance, investment company execs. Make no mistake, in ON the "regular citizens" always get screwed because the government agencies/boards/commissions are all set up to benefit and back the businessman, not the everyday person.

[COSMIC5]

x2

This is how insurance companies operate, in a nutshell, in ON province. In the meantime the government sits back and lets it happen because they are surely making money from this arrangement somehow as well. :mad:

Not so true...maybe Johnson are different as maybe they also run an investment firm..but generally insurance companies amend rates to recover from the amount of money they have paid out on claims...?? just a thought...

[ES_Revenge]

Not so true...maybe Johnson are different as maybe they also run an investment firm..but generally insurance companies amend rates to recover from the amount of money they have paid out on claims...?? just a thought...
Yeah that's what they tell you. Are they gonna come out and say "hey we lost all this money investing the money you gave us, now you have to pay us more." ??? Of course not. Insurance companies, particularly in the auto insurance segment, are just running a government-legitmised scam op.

Insurance rates aren't getting increased (and aren't too high already) because of claims or any nonsense like that. They're increased because auto insurance is a. mandatory; and, b. legitimised. If they should tell you what they are really doing, they would [at least start to] lose that legitimacy.

But even aside from investments, insurance rates will still go in only one direction-->up. Why? Because even when they make a killing on investments, that doesn't stop them from making more money from you. And what do we get from the government? Why, it's gold stamp of approval on all matters to screw you, the everyday citizen :rolleyes:

[rems]

Yeah that's what they tell you. Are they gonna come out and say "hey we lost all this money investing the money you gave us, now you have to pay us more." ??? Of course not. Insurance companies, particularly in the auto insurance segment, are just running a government-legitmised scam op.

Insurance rates aren't getting increased (and aren't too high already) because of claims or any nonsense like that. They're increased because auto insurance is a. mandatory; and, b. legitimised. If they should tell you what they are really doing, they would [at least start to] lose that legitimacy.

But even aside from investments, insurance rates will still go in only one direction-->up. Why? Because even when they make a killing on investments, that doesn't stop them from making more money from you. And what do we get from the government? Why, it's gold stamp of approval on all matters to screw you, the everyday citizen :rolleyes:

As I said in my previous post, would you settle for a 2% return on a risky investment? I don't know about you but predicting how many people will make claims AND how much those claims would be is pretty difficult to do. So while their are profit contingencies, it's not guaranteed.

And for rates always going up...did you not notice your premiums go down in years prior? This is like the first overall increase that insurance companies were granted in a while. Or did you think that was because you haven't made any claims or got tickets? People seem to forget (or don't know) that your own experience isn't the only factor that goes into how much you pay. It also matters what all your fellow motorists have done.

And all those gains from investments in years prior, the consumer doesn't see all of it for times like these. It's so that there aren't major jumps (either up or down) in rates. For example, the good years rates rates may have had a -20% indication in change of rate. But insurance companies gave you only 10%. Now the data says +20% But they only took 10%.

[ES_Revenge]

And for rates always going up...did you not notice your premiums go down in years prior?
My insurance only went down once in recent history and that was when I moved from Etobicoke to Brampton. As I get older my rates just seem to increase otherwise (which seems backwards to me, no?), even with a clean record and never an at-fault accident.

This is like the first overall increase that insurance companies were granted in a while. Or did you think that was because you haven't made any claims or got tickets? People seem to forget (or don't know) that your own experience isn't the only factor that goes into how much you pay. It also matters what all your fellow motorists have done.
No I haven't forgotten and I don't think it was because of anything I did or didn't do. What it's because of is what I said. Auto Insurance in this province is a government legitimised scam op.


And all those gains from investments in years prior, the consumer doesn't see all of it for times like these. It's so that there aren't major jumps (either up or down) in rates. For example, the good years rates rates may have had a -20% indication in change of rate. But insurance companies gave you only 10%. Now the data says +20% But they only took 10%.
You can rehash all the double-talk, propaganda and "numbers" the insurance companies and government feed everyone, but believe me you aren't fooling me. I know how these sons of $(%*@es roll, and when they're burning in hell we'll see if they're laughing then.

[LoveRFD]

Johnson will increase my premium for about 10%. I'm going to switch to Belair Direct, they give me better price and the option to pay by credit card.

[rems]

My insurance only went down once in recent history and that was when I moved from Etobicoke to Brampton. As I get older my rates just seem to increase otherwise (which seems backwards to me, no?), even with a clean record and never an at-fault accident.


No I haven't forgotten and I don't think it was because of anything I did or didn't do. What it's because of is what I said. Auto Insurance in this province is a government legitimised scam op.



You can rehash all the double-talk, propaganda and "numbers" the insurance companies and government feed everyone, but believe me you aren't fooling me. I know how these sons of $(%*@es roll, and when they're burning in hell we'll see if they're laughing then.

k I won't bore you with numbers then. I'll just use simple logic.
Tell me if any of my assumptions are incorrect or way out in left field.

Health care costs are increasing. I don't think you can deny that. And that's where insurance companies pay out the most. That's why you pay so much for liability coverage.
Cost to replace/repair vehicles have also gone up.

The only thing that decreases is the frequency. But lately that too has gone up. So again, what is the logical solution here.

Sure I agree, insurance companies can cut their costs. Or aim for a lower return. But the same can be said of ANY private company.

I don't know why you call it propaganda...it's numbers...statistics...it's not subjective (what is subjective is trending these losses and such but that's a whole different story)...if it's showing that all the payouts are going up, then the premium they get also need to increase.

So instead of blaming insurance companies, why don't you ask your fellow motorists to drive safely. Or the health field to lower how much they charge. Or tell people to stop buying new cars.

So let's try to get you to look at it from the insurer's POV (with numerical examples).

Say you have 10 friends. And on average in the past 1 of them misses their morning bus and has to take a $30 cab ride per month. You tell them that for $5 each/month, you'll pay for their cab fare if they miss their bus in the morning. (Now assume no one purposely misses the bus to take the cab).

So say then that it happens twice/mth now. And that becomes the new trend. Would you still charge $5/person/mth? Or what if the cab doubled their price and started charging $60 for the same fare? Should your friends then start blaming you?

[ferkel]

Johnson will increase my premium for about 10%. I'm going to switch to Belair Direct, they give me better price and the option to pay by credit card.

Good luck with that.. Belair which was owned by ING, now called Intact is gonna jack their rates sky high too since they are now owned by investors who now want BIG returns... probably see a big ump there too with Belair, ING, GreyPower

[Insurance-Broker]

Good luck with that.. Belair which was owned by ING, now called Intact is gonna jack their rates sky high too since they are now owned by investors who now want BIG returns... probably see a big ump there too with Belair, ING, GreyPower

I think this will happen the same way as it did with PC. Rates would have to be raised and people will be switching from belair.

This isn't something new and we have seen this cycle too many times.

It's better to deal with a broker who knows the system and can always get the best deal possible.

[LoveRFD]

Good luck with that.. Belair which was owned by ING, now called Intact is gonna jack their rates sky high too since they are now owned by investors who now want BIG returns... probably see a big ump there too with Belair, ING, GreyPower

I don't care if they are going to jack up the rates next year then I'll switch again. As long as I get the good rate this year I'm good.

[goleafsgo5]

I think this will happen the same way as it did with PC. Rates would have to be raised and people will be switching from belair.

This isn't something new and we have seen this cycle too many times.

It's better to deal with a broker who knows the system and can always get the best deal possible.

I am sooo sick and tired of self promotion on this site..... you might be able to get slightly better rates cause your a broker.... you bascially shop the applicant around to the companys whom you have a deal with. More then likely starting at the company that offers you the highest commision on the sale, and if that price seems high you work down your list!

The little guys basically do the same thing just on there own!

[COSMIC5]

I am sooo sick and tired of self promotion on this site..... you might be able to get slightly better rates cause your a broker.... you bascially shop the applicant around to the companys whom you have a deal with. More then likely starting at the company that offers you the highest commision on the sale, and if that price seems high you work down your list!

The little guys basically do the same thing just on there own!

Pretty much all companies offer the same %'ge of commission rates...

[ferkel]

Pretty much all companies offer the same %'ge of commission rates...

You know thats not true.. please don't pass incorrect information... espcially with 25 years of experience LOL

[goleafsgo5]

Pretty much all companies offer the same %'ge of commission rates...


Your not serious right? My buddies dad has been a broker his whole life, makes great coin!!!!

I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT COMMISSION RATE DIFFER BY COMPANY!

[COSMIC5]

You know thats not true.. please don't pass incorrect information... espcially with 25 years of experience LOL

It is true..most pay the same for property as they do auto... u seem to be the experienced expert...what are they paying you?

[COSMIC5]

Your not serious right? My buddies dad has been a broker his whole life, makes great coin!!!!

I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT COMMISSION RATE DIFFER BY COMPANY!

I said pretty much they pay the same commission percentage..tell me one that pays a high % of commission on auto......??????

[Insurance-Broker]

It is true..most pay the same for property as they do auto... u seem to be the experienced expert...what are they paying you?


There is no point arguing with people on this forum or in general!

Commission amount is not hidden and can be easily found/disclosed to a consumer upon request. Almost all auto insurance companies will pay a commission rate of 12.5% and some pay even less.

[Insurance-Broker]

Your not serious right? My buddies dad has been a broker his whole life, makes great coin!!!!

I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT COMMISSION RATE DIFFER BY COMPANY!

So I guess you must be working as a broker as well since there is so much commission in it?

[sunset_orange]

does anyone know how auto insurance works in BC province?

[PMM1]

Hi

does anyone know how auto insurance works in BC province?

In what sense? You have to buy your basic insurance from ICBC and can buy optional insurance from either ICBC or other insurance companies. There is a claim rated scale. If you have no accidents you can get up to a 43% discount, if you have a lot the sky is the limit. see: http://www.icbc.com/insurance/pdf/claim_rated_scale_APG26web.pdf

PMM

[COSMIC5]

There is no point arguing with people on this forum or in general!

Commission amount is not hidden and can be easily found/disclosed to a consumer upon request. Almost all auto insurance companies will pay a commission rate of 12.5% and some pay even less.

Thanks insurance broker!! don't forget the ones that pay 5%....

[lovehurt]

There is no point arguing with people on this forum or in general!

Commission amount is not hidden and can be easily found/disclosed to a consumer upon request. Almost all auto insurance companies will pay a commission rate of 12.5% and some pay even less.


is that 12.5% pay to a broker or brokerage firm?
if pay to the brokerage firm, so how much broker get?
p.s ... i'm interest to become a broker that's why I ask you these kinda question, if you don't mind
thanks

[Insurance-Broker]

is that 12.5% pay to a broker or brokerage firm?
if pay to the brokerage firm, so how much broker get?
p.s ... i'm interest to become a broker that's why I ask you these kinda question, if you don't mind
thanks

Well, if you listen to the people on this forum than "we are swimming in cash" :mad:

In reality, the brokerage will take a cut from that commission amount which can be as high as 50% or as low as 5%. The more they take, the less you pay on other services(office expense/advertisement etc)

Good luck!

[goleafsgo5]

I never said swimmining cash, I am no professional by a long shot! and I know its a tough buis, one big claim and you could be cooked.

Have alot of respect for what you guys do. By buddies Dad handles big CGL policys mostly. I guess I just got a little fed up with all the self promotion on this site. I mean in respect to auto insurance people can do exactly what you do in the sence of shopping them around.

[HowEver]

I thought Johnsons IS an insurance broker, not an insurance firm.

No?

[COSMIC5]

is that 12.5% pay to a broker or brokerage firm? if pay to the brokerage firm, so how much broker get? p.s ... i'm interest to become a broker that's why I ask you these kinda question, if you don't mind
thanks

Works the same as real estate...the firm gets the 12.5 and they give their "producers" a cut...can be from 50 - 60% of that 12.5%, 20% or 5%....so, on a $100 comm, the producer could only get $50 or $60...

[COSMIC5]

I never said swimmining cash, I am no professional by a long shot! and I know its a tough buis, one big claim and you could be cooked.

Have alot of respect for what you guys do. By buddies Dad handles big CGL policys mostly. I guess I just got a little fed up with all the self promotion on this site. I mean in respect to auto insurance people can do exactly what you do in the sence of shopping them around.

Commercial policies in general pay 20% on average... unless its a specialty company with different agreements with the brokerage...

[sunset_orange]

Hi



In what sense? You have to buy your basic insurance from ICBC and can buy optional insurance from either ICBC or other insurance companies. There is a claim rated scale. If you have no accidents you can get up to a 43% discount, if you have a lot the sky is the limit. see: http://www.icbc.com/insurance/pdf/claim_rated_scale_APG26web.pdf

PMM

I heard BC drivers get really good deals on car insurance, hmm, wish I live in Vancouver.

[ES_Revenge]

So instead of blaming insurance companies, why don't you ask your fellow motorists to drive safely.
Because the greed of insurance companies doesn't have anything to do with my fellow motorists. And, if you look at my posts, pretty much everyday I beg, plead, aruge, and yell about road safety and how people have to start taking responsibility for it. I don't do that to lower insurance rates specifically though, but rather in the misguided hope that anyone will listen and the roads might actually become a safer place. (Because the provincial government certainly doesn't do a damn thing to accomplish that.)

The problem with both road safety and insurance however falls to one party. The provincial government. Which again, in ON is more like "just one of the boys" when it comes to greedy money-crazed corporations. The ON goverment is fairly terrible IMO--it makes money itself and makes the business man happy all on the backs of the working people. When it comes to vehicles, vehicle insurance, roads/safety, etc. its downright disgusting the way this province runs things.

Consider for example that the cameras on the 407 (even when it was government run) cost several times what the cheap crap red light cameras do, and they are far more advanced. I.e. They couldn't care less to spend anything on safety and are much more concerned with spending money only to make more money...

And there's tons of other examples of the dirty no-good bull$hit the government engages in. Even more sickening is how they legitimise a lot of it through nonsense "information" and pulling the wool over the eyes over the public because most of the public is composed of idiots who believe anything you tell them. Not only that they'll violate the constitution of this country as they please. Case in point the "stunting" laws :rolleyes: The ON government and it's agencies/commissions/etc. is like a dirty cop on a powertrip--it does whatever the hell it wants to whomever it wants and gets away with it.

So let's try to get you to look at it from the insurer's POV (with numerical examples).
Yeah I'd love to be in their place. I mean rob money out of the people and do it legally having them have to hand it over, because I'm backed by the government who's in bed with me. Wonderful to be swimming in cash, isn't it? Oh right, but I can't do that because I'm not going to hell.

Say you have 10 friends. And on average ...
No say you have 10 friends and on average you want to take $50 from each one of them. Well you could steal it but then they would probably beat you up or you would go to jail or something. Now instead of that you decide to run a business where your other buddy, the government, requires your friends to get the service you offer. Now the government's requirement makes sense because it's a service that everyone really should have--so all the people agree to it.

However your service can easily be offered for $20 and you can still make lots of money and stay in business fine, but you don't want $20 remember? You want $50. Instead of living in the same "common" neighbourhoods as your friends do, a modern subdivision and cookie-cutter houses just don't cut it for you, after all that's for the losers, the working class right? Those "friends" of yours?

So you get your buddy the government to go in with you and instead of charging $50 to your friends they have an even better idea! :!: You see your buddy tells you to charge them $100, and you can do it as long as you give them $20 of that $100 as a "donation" or similar guised transaction, when the time comes. Then you both laugh at your "poor", "common" friends, as you go home to your 10,000sqft. home with 10 car garage and acres of land in the middle of nowhwere; oh but you have a "meeting" downtown at a restaurant with some "business associates" tonight, so I guess you can instead go to your luxury condo you keep downtown for such cases. Etc, etc.

Now of course some of your regular friends might say "dude you have a lot of money and I'm paying you a lot of money every month, and now you want more? What's up with that?" and then you just show them a bunch of baloney about how you're losing money here and there and how too many of "them" are making claims on your service and you have to pay out blah blah blah. In the meantime you're talking to them on the phone in your hot tub with some high $$$ prostitues, LOL. Then your friends just scratch their heads and blame it on each other because you said so... "Hey tell everyone else to stop having to make claims!" Just scapegoat it on everyone else and have people fight it out while you're laughing it up. Funny how the government does the exact same thing when it comes to "addressing" road safety issues, isn't it? What a coincidence!!!

:rolleyes:

Now I got a little carried away there, LOL, (probably sound like a socialist, LOL) but this is the general path that is followed by government and insurance companies. I agree of course that any private company can and will do this by the fact that it's what they are out there to do--make money. But when the government is in on it, then there's a problem. The government is supposed to represent the people and stand up for the people that can't stand up for themselves. Instead, in ON we have a government that steps all over the people and spits and $(*@!s on them while laughing all the way to the bank :rolleyes:

As if insurance companies are hurting or need to raise rates because of "increased claims" or any of the other bullcrap they tell you. Why do I call it propaganda? Because it is.

I heard BC drivers get really good deals on car insurance, hmm, wish I live in Vancouver.
Yeah they do, you know why? Because BC is a province where the government doesn't take a crap on the people that live there and trample all over them to make them and their buddies a buck. In BC they have real laws for the people and their auto insurance is government run (like it should be), not privately run with the bedfellows of government officials.

In BC I hear they even have consumer protection laws of various sorts. Sounds like a fantasy land eh? I mean here in ON we get consumer exploitation laws, LOL, where the law pretty much says businesses have the right to screw you :rolleyes:

[COSMIC5]

Many factors are involved in calculating insurance premiums. Each insurance company takes into account the number of policyholders it expects to have, how many claims it expects will be filed in the year and the projected cost of those claims such as the costs of repairing vehicles, health care, rehabilitation and replacing salaries of those who are injured in collisions and therefore unable to work.

The Canadian Coalition Against Insurance Fraud found that more than one quarter of all personal injury claims contain elements of fraud -- costing the industry $500 million per year.

Cost of repairing cars. In the past 10 years, the cost of repairing cars has risen almost 8% while the cost of replacing vehicles damaged in car accidents is up by more than 30%.

don't shoot the messenger...I pay those premiums too...

[goleafsgo5]

Because the greed of insurance companies doesn't have anything to do with my fellow motorists. And, if you look at my posts, pretty much everyday I beg, plead, aruge, and yell about road safety and how people have to start taking responsibility for it. I don't do that to lower insurance rates specifically though, but rather in the misguided hope that anyone will listen and the roads might actually become a safer place. (Because the provincial government certainly doesn't do a damn thing to accomplish that.)

The problem with both road safety and insurance however falls to one party. The provincial government. Which again, in ON is more like "just one of the boys" when it comes to greedy money-crazed corporations. The ON goverment is fairly terrible IMO--it makes money itself and makes the business man happy all on the backs of the working people. When it comes to vehicles, vehicle insurance, roads/safety, etc. its downright disgusting the way this province runs things.

Consider for example that the cameras on the 407 (even when it was government run) cost several times what the cheap crap red light cameras do, and they are far more advanced. I.e. They couldn't care less to spend anything on safety and are much more concerned with spending money only to make more money...

And there's tons of other examples of the dirty no-good bull$hit the government engages in. Even more sickening is how they legitimise a lot of it through nonsense "information" and pulling the wool over the eyes over the public because most of the public is composed of idiots who believe anything you tell them. Not only that they'll violate the constitution of this country as they please. Case in point the "stunting" laws :rolleyes: The ON government and it's agencies/commissions/etc. is like a dirty cop on a powertrip--it does whatever the hell it wants to whomever it wants and gets away with it.


Yeah I'd love to be in their place. I mean rob money out of the people and do it legally having them have to hand it over, because I'm backed by the government who's in bed with me. Wonderful to be swimming in cash, isn't it? Oh right, but I can't do that because I'm not going to hell.


No say you have 10 friends and on average you want to take $50 from each one of them. Well you could steal it but then they would probably beat you up or you would go to jail or something. Now instead of that you decide to run a business where your other buddy, the government, requires your friends to get the service you offer. Now the government's requirement makes sense because it's a service that everyone really should have--so all the people agree to it.

However your service can easily be offered for $20 and you can still make lots of money and stay in business fine, but you don't want $20 remember? You want $50. Instead of living in the same "common" neighbourhoods as your friends do, a modern subdivision and cookie-cutter houses just don't cut it for you, after all that's for the losers, the working class right? Those "friends" of yours?

So you get your buddy the government to go in with you and instead of charging $50 to your friends they have an even better idea! :!: You see your buddy tells you to charge them $100, and you can do it as long as you give them $20 of that $100 as a "donation" or similar guised transaction, when the time comes. Then you both laugh at your "poor", "common" friends, as you go home to your 10,000sqft. home with 10 car garage and acres of land in the middle of nowhwere; oh but you have a "meeting" downtown at a restaurant with some "business associates" tonight, so I guess you can instead go to your luxury condo you keep downtown for such cases. Etc, etc.

Now of course some of your regular friends might say "dude you have a lot of money and I'm paying you a lot of money every month, and now you want more? What's up with that?" and then you just show them a bunch of baloney about how you're losing money here and there and how too many of "them" are making claims on your service and you have to pay out blah blah blah. In the meantime you're talking to them on the phone in your hot tub with some high $$$ prostitues, LOL. Then your friends just scratch their heads and blame it on each other because you said so... "Hey tell everyone else to stop having to make claims!" Just scapegoat it on everyone else and have people fight it out while you're laughing it up. Funny how the government does the exact same thing when it comes to "addressing" road safety issues, isn't it? What a coincidence!!!

:rolleyes:

Now I got a little carried away there, LOL, (probably sound like a socialist, LOL) but this is the general path that is followed by government and insurance companies. I agree of course that any private company can and will do this by the fact that it's what they are out there to do--make money. But when the government is in on it, then there's a problem. The government is supposed to represent the people and stand up for the people that can't stand up for themselves. Instead, in ON we have a government that steps all over the people and spits and $(*@!s on them while laughing all the way to the bank :rolleyes:

As if insurance companies are hurting or need to raise rates because of "increased claims" or any of the other bullcrap they tell you. Why do I call it propaganda? Because it is.


Yeah they do, you know why? Because BC is a province where the government doesn't take a crap on the people that live there and trample all over them to make them and their buddies a buck. In BC they have real laws for the people and their auto insurance is government run (like it should be), not privately run with the bedfellows of government officials.

In BC I hear they even have consumer protection laws of various sorts. Sounds like a fantasy land eh? I mean here in ON we get consumer exploitation laws, LOL, where the law pretty much says businesses have the right to screw you :rolleyes:



I can see why you a little upset but lets take it back a step there.....

god forbid the day never comes!!!!

But if you were in a car accident and your wife and kids and yourself were seriously injured, I'm pretty sure you would be happy when they cut you your 2 million dollar check!!!!!

And if you hate paying insurance permiums..... make enough money so you don't have to....Broker correct me if I am wrong but aslong as you can prove you have enough money in the bank to cover claims you able to get around having insurenace. Or is this for home policys....

[COSMIC5]

I can see why you a little upset but lets take it back a step there.....

god forbid the day never comes!!!!

But if you were in a car accident and your wife and kids and yourself were seriously injured, I'm pretty sure you would be happy when they cut you your 2 million dollar check!!!!!

And if you hate paying insurance permiums..... make enough money so you don't have to....Broker correct me if I am wrong but aslong as you can prove you have enough money in the bank to cover claims you able to get around having insurenace. Or is this for home policys....

where did you hear this?

[goleafsgo5]

Like I said I thought I might be wrong or it might be just for home I heard through the grape vine........ Is it wrong correct semi correct.....

[Whitedart]

And if you hate paying insurance permiums..... make enough money so you don't have to....Broker correct me if I am wrong but aslong as you can prove you have enough money in the bank to cover claims you able to get around having insurenace. Or is this for home policys....

The only time I have seen this in Ontario is with certain government agencies that are self insured.

[Whitedart]

Many factors are involved in calculating insurance premiums. Each insurance company takes into account the number of policyholders it expects to have, how many claims it expects will be filed in the year and the projected cost of those claims such as the costs of repairing vehicles, health care, rehabilitation and replacing salaries of those who are injured in collisions and therefore unable to work.

Cosmic, are non moving/admin. violations, (such as not having an insurance slip in the car, or similar) treated the same as moving violations (speeding, follow too close, improper lane change, etc) for insurance calculations.

As discussed in this thread, there seems to be a great deal of confusion over what counts as a conviction for insurance.
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=715134

[COSMIC5]

Cosmic, are non moving/admin. violations, (such as not having an insurance slip in the car, or similar) treated the same as moving violations (speeding, follow too close, improper lane change, etc) for insurance calculations.

As discussed in this thread, there seems to be a great deal of confusion over what counts as a conviction for insurance.
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=715134

Anything that shows up on your MVR will apply. Yes, fail to provide evidence of insurance is a ticket as are seatbelts... A suspension of drivers lic for an unpaid fine usually is acceptable...those are usually the situations where someone has forgotten to renew their drivers lic..insurance companies won't usually penalize for it if it was only a short term thing like this...

[COSMIC5]

The only time I have seen this in Ontario is with certain government agencies that are self insured.

Right, like the police etc...

[rems]

Because the greed of insurance companies doesn't have anything to do with my fellow motorists. And, if you look at my posts, pretty much everyday I beg, plead, aruge, and yell about road safety and how people have to start taking responsibility for it. I don't do that to lower insurance rates specifically though, but rather in the misguided hope that anyone will listen and the roads might actually become a safer place. (Because the provincial government certainly doesn't do a damn thing to accomplish that.)

The problem with both road safety and insurance however falls to one party. The provincial government. Which again, in ON is more like "just one of the boys" when it comes to greedy money-crazed corporations. The ON goverment is fairly terrible IMO--it makes money itself and makes the business man happy all on the backs of the working people. When it comes to vehicles, vehicle insurance, roads/safety, etc. its downright disgusting the way this province runs things.

Consider for example that the cameras on the 407 (even when it was government run) cost several times what the cheap crap red light cameras do, and they are far more advanced. I.e. They couldn't care less to spend anything on safety and are much more concerned with spending money only to make more money...

And there's tons of other examples of the dirty no-good bull$hit the government engages in. Even more sickening is how they legitimise a lot of it through nonsense "information" and pulling the wool over the eyes over the public because most of the public is composed of idiots who believe anything you tell them. Not only that they'll violate the constitution of this country as they please. Case in point the "stunting" laws :rolleyes: The ON government and it's agencies/commissions/etc. is like a dirty cop on a powertrip--it does whatever the hell it wants to whomever it wants and gets away with it.


Yeah I'd love to be in their place. I mean rob money out of the people and do it legally having them have to hand it over, because I'm backed by the government who's in bed with me. Wonderful to be swimming in cash, isn't it? Oh right, but I can't do that because I'm not going to hell.


No say you have 10 friends and on average you want to take $50 from each one of them. Well you could steal it but then they would probably beat you up or you would go to jail or something. Now instead of that you decide to run a business where your other buddy, the government, requires your friends to get the service you offer. Now the government's requirement makes sense because it's a service that everyone really should have--so all the people agree to it.

However your service can easily be offered for $20 and you can still make lots of money and stay in business fine, but you don't want $20 remember? You want $50. Instead of living in the same "common" neighbourhoods as your friends do, a modern subdivision and cookie-cutter houses just don't cut it for you, after all that's for the losers, the working class right? Those "friends" of yours?

So you get your buddy the government to go in with you and instead of charging $50 to your friends they have an even better idea! :!: You see your buddy tells you to charge them $100, and you can do it as long as you give them $20 of that $100 as a "donation" or similar guised transaction, when the time comes. Then you both laugh at your "poor", "common" friends, as you go home to your 10,000sqft. home with 10 car garage and acres of land in the middle of nowhwere; oh but you have a "meeting" downtown at a restaurant with some "business associates" tonight, so I guess you can instead go to your luxury condo you keep downtown for such cases. Etc, etc.

Now of course some of your regular friends might say "dude you have a lot of money and I'm paying you a lot of money every month, and now you want more? What's up with that?" and then you just show them a bunch of baloney about how you're losing money here and there and how too many of "them" are making claims on your service and you have to pay out blah blah blah. In the meantime you're talking to them on the phone in your hot tub with some high $$$ prostitues, LOL. Then your friends just scratch their heads and blame it on each other because you said so... "Hey tell everyone else to stop having to make claims!" Just scapegoat it on everyone else and have people fight it out while you're laughing it up. Funny how the government does the exact same thing when it comes to "addressing" road safety issues, isn't it? What a coincidence!!!

:rolleyes:

Now I got a little carried away there, LOL, (probably sound like a socialist, LOL) but this is the general path that is followed by government and insurance companies. I agree of course that any private company can and will do this by the fact that it's what they are out there to do--make money. But when the government is in on it, then there's a problem. The government is supposed to represent the people and stand up for the people that can't stand up for themselves. Instead, in ON we have a government that steps all over the people and spits and $(*@!s on them while laughing all the way to the bank :rolleyes:

As if insurance companies are hurting or need to raise rates because of "increased claims" or any of the other bullcrap they tell you. Why do I call it propaganda? Because it is.


Yeah they do, you know why? Because BC is a province where the government doesn't take a crap on the people that live there and trample all over them to make them and their buddies a buck. In BC they have real laws for the people and their auto insurance is government run (like it should be), not privately run with the bedfellows of government officials.

In BC I hear they even have consumer protection laws of various sorts. Sounds like a fantasy land eh? I mean here in ON we get consumer exploitation laws, LOL, where the law pretty much says businesses have the right to screw you :rolleyes:

well that was entertaining :lol:
so you didnt answer my question...would you still charge the original amount? And in that example, there's really no operating costs to run that arrangement. Imagine as well if your operating costs went up...you didn't acknowledge rising health care costs (or is that propaganda too?) And maybe if you didn't live in Toronto, you wouldn't be so bitter. Remember, if you live in a densely populated area, your chances of getting into an accident go up. See how you can explain how the cost to an insurance company increases? And if you go by my example for you, would you eat all those costs or would you pass them on?

If you hate insurance so much, just buy the minimum liability coverage required under law. That's all you need to buy. You don't need collision, or comprehensive, or endorsements. So this way, you being screwed is minimized to that amount. If you own your house, don't buy insurance for that either.

Remember insurance isn't only about the coverage you receive. It's also the peace of mind knowing you won't be financially screwed if you injure someone. Cuz it's also there to protect the one who got injured. Say that liability wasn't mandatory. Say some guy hit a pedestrian. And that guy makes minimum wage. Do you think he'll have enough assets to pay the medical bills of that pedestrian?

And you know that BC also has private insurers that sell insurance to its residents, right? Cuz the coverage they get is very minimal (ICBC also sells more coverage). So people there buy excess to what the minimum is. Guess those people are fools, eh? That's why you too should just buy the minimum. Remember, like anything else, people pay for what they find value in. So do you have just the minimum liability required by law?

Here's some propaganda for you since you keep mentioning that the stats are just bs.
:P
http://www.ibc.ca/en/Car_Insurance/Introduction/Reality_Govt_run_auto.asp
Huge bail-outs. All government-run auto insurers in Canada have required taxpayer subsidies as a result of charging too little in premiums and having insufficient start-up funds. In 1975-76, BC taxpayers had to bail out their government-run insurance company – Insurance Corporation of British Columbia (ICBC) – in the amount of $181 million ($645 million in 2006 dollars), just two years after it had begun operations. This money has never been repaid. At the same time, ICBC had been so mismanaged, with insurance being sold significantly underpriced, that the government was forced to increase rates by at least 25%.

And if you think all insurance companies are making money hand over fist, maybe you should go check out how many actually lost money.

[COSMIC5]

Like I said I thought I might be wrong or it might be just for home I heard through the grape vine........ Is it wrong correct semi correct.....

Ontario law requires that all motorists have automobile insurance. If you are found driving without valid automobile insurance, you can have your driver's licence suspended and your vehicle impounded.If you are convicted of driving without valid automobile insurance, your insurance company may consider you a "high-risk" driver and charge you higher premiums or refuse to sell you insurance altogether. If you are injured in an accident while driving or occupying an uninsured vehicle: you may not be entitled to receive income replacement and/or non-earner benefits; and you may not be allowed to sue the at-fault driver for compensation as a result of injuries received in the accident. More importantly, if you are found to be at fault for an accident causing injury or death to another person, you may be held personally responsible for his/her medical costs and other losses.

[lovehurt]

Well, if you listen to the people on this forum than "we are swimming in cash" :mad:

In reality, the brokerage will take a cut from that commission amount which can be as high as 50% or as low as 5%. The more they take, the less you pay on other services(office expense/advertisement etc)

Good luck!

Works the same as real estate...the firm gets the 12.5 and they give their "producers" a cut...can be from 50 - 60% of that 12.5%, 20% or 5%....so, on a $100 comm, the producer could only get $50 or $60...

thank you Insurance-Broker and COSMIC5
I did some research ... as I know some firm pay you salary + commission
the salary seem like very low :mad: if you can't issue any premium for that month, you will be getting loan for your living expensess :lol:
about IBAO and RIBO ... who issue the licence?
you have to renew your licence every year? + 10 hrs of classes?
please provide some info to become a broker
thank you

[COSMIC5]

thank you Insurance-Broker and COSMIC5 I did some research ... as I know some firm pay you salary + commission the salary seem like very low :mad: if you can't issue any premium for that month, you will be getting loan for your living expensess :lol: about IBAO and RIBO ... who issue the licence? you have to renew your licence every year? + 10 hrs of classes?
please provide some info to become a broker
thank you


I am a member of the IBAO and RIBO issues our licences. We need 8hrs of education each year, more if you are the owner operator....

[rb]

I am currently working in Liability claims for an insurance company (ontario)

typically insurance works this way

$1 premium
15c to broker
30c admin/running co
60-65c claims
Make money by investing premiums to gain return

If returns are negative they have to make money elsewhere
however all rate increases are regulated by FSCO

apart from investment - the biggest contributor of losses is the accident benefit and tort system - personal injury lawyers and rehab places are making millions out of the system

I can tell you maybe 80% plus of AB claims have elements of fraud and same for tort

Almost all my claims are from people making very little money or have lost their jobs and for all of them life was wonderful before the accident and now its forever ruined

Cars have gotten safer with air bags etc yet the cost to settle an injury claim has doubled in the last few years

How can an accident that causes $1000 damage change you're life so you can't work , are depressed, scared of driving , can't sleep etc etc
We see this everyday

or YOU get rear ended and still get sued by the third party saying you stopped to soon or some other reason. Lawyers charge $200 per hour - a 2 week trail cost $50k even if we are successful we can't recover costs as the other party has no assets

Surveillance cost $2500 a pop - we see someone who says they are in constant pain doing ordinary things, shopping playing with kids etc - their argument "oh that was a good day...next day I felt horrible"

FSCO is a joke , the AB system is also a big Joke

[Insurance-Broker]

I thought Johnsons IS an insurance broker, not an insurance firm.

No?

Yeah they are a brokerage however you can only get a policy from 1 insurance company which is "Unifund".

For a typical broker like myself or Cosmic, we can take advtange of 15-20 different companies to find a deal for any client.

Hence the benefit!

[Insurance-Broker]

I am currently working in Liability claims for an insurance company (ontario)

typically insurance works this way

$1 premium
15c to broker
30c admin/running co
60-65c claims
Make money by investing premiums to gain return

If returns are negative they have to make money elsewhere
however all rate increases are regulated by FSCO

apart from investment - the biggest contributor of losses is the accident benefit and tort system - personal injury lawyers and rehab places are making millions out of the system

I can tell you maybe 80% plus of AB claims have elements of fraud and same for tort

Almost all my claims are from people making very little money or have lost their jobs and for all of them life was wonderful before the accident and now its forever ruined

Cars have gotten safer with air bags etc yet the cost to settle an injury claim has doubled in the last few years

How can an accident that causes $1000 damage change you're life so you can't work , are depressed, scared of driving , can't sleep etc etc
We see this everyday

or YOU get rear ended and still get sued by the third party saying you stopped to soon or some other reason. Lawyers charge $200 per hour - a 2 week trail cost $50k even if we are successful we can't recover costs as the other party has no assets

Surveillance cost $2500 a pop - we see someone who says they are in constant pain doing ordinary things, shopping playing with kids etc - their argument "oh that was a good day...next day I felt horrible"

FSCO is a joke , the AB system is also a big Joke

Very well said!

If people can give up their right to sue after an accident or limit how much a lawyer can get in the fees, than we would be paying much less just like our neighbors in Quebec.

People have to realize that the money has to come from somewhere. It's not the cost to cover the car/house but rather the accident benefits, cost to investigate a claim and then settlement, etc..

[Insurance-Broker]

thank you Insurance-Broker and COSMIC5
I did some research ... as I know some firm pay you salary + commission
the salary seem like very low :mad: if you can't issue any premium for that month, you will be getting loan for your living expensess :lol:
about IBAO and RIBO ... who issue the licence?
you have to renew your licence every year? + 10 hrs of classes?
please provide some info to become a broker
thank you

That's one of the problems becuase being an independent broker, you are not gonna make any money without any clients. Unless you get into a service role first or a combination of sales/service(similar to what statefarm does) but than you are pretty much working as an employee.

Are you new to insruance business?

[scoop]

Got my new quote from Johnson - up 15% from last year for no reason for auto and home. Im going to shop around.

[COSMIC5]

Got my new quote from Johnson - up 15% from last year for no reason for auto and home. Im going to shop around.

I wrote 2 people last week that were with them ..... said the same thing...

[Insurance-Broker]

Got my new quote from Johnson - up 15% from last year for no reason for auto and home. Im going to shop around.

Yeah they raised their rates as claims costs were a lot more last year. Your best option is to shop around and use a broker.

Good luck!