Are any contractors-renovators trustworthy?

[hagbard]

Been watching too much Mike Holmes I guess, but you'd think every contractor and home renovator is a crook. We just saw a house locally I'd like to buy, but its over a hundred years old and would require a far bit of work (well maintained but not "up to date"). I can do some of the work, the rest is out of my league.

Any recommendations in the Harrow-Kingsville-Leamington area?


**

[jackboot]

I'm far from the most knowledgeable person regarding contracting and trades, but here is my observation as a customer.

It is easy to forget that tradespeople and contractors are also salespeople. The role they play on first contact is almost exclusively sales. They can't perform their trade unless they convince you that they are the person for the job. This can involve fear mongering, half-truths, and embellishing their qualifications. Also, the best tradespeople may not be the best salespeople - and conversely the best salespeople may be the worst tradespeople. The best tradespeople are those that have both qualities - understanding a customer's needs, communicating clearly, and then doing quality work.

What this all adds up to is that homeowners just need to take some time to become familiar with the technical aspects of what work needs to be performed so that they don't get hosed. This allows you to compare quotes between tradespeople and contractors. You wouldn't go car shopping and just take the salesperson's word as gospel and the same should go for home building and renovations.

I'm not being quick to criticize tradespeople and contractors by calling them "salespeople" either. Dentists are a good example of a highly respected professional that utilizes sales tactics to part customers with their money.

[venice_it]

People need to keep in mind the whole premise of Holmes on Holmes is to highlight extreme examples of bad workmanship and contrast that with quality work using the latest and high end products manufacturers have paid to have showcased on the show.

You do need to be very careful you get the right people in for the job. Especially with a home that is 100 + years old, it will present challenges you will not face on a typical renovation on newer homes. Every aspect of the renovation will cost much more than the renovation of a newer home. I wouldn't buy the house unless you are sure of what you are getting yourself into.

[Frankie3s]

People need to keep in mind the whole premise of Holmes on Holmes is to highlight extreme examples of bad workmanship and contrast that with quality work using the latest and high end products manufacturers have paid to have showcased on the show.

You do need to be very careful you get the right people in for the job. Especially with a home that is 100 + years old, it will present challenges you will not face on a typical renovation on newer homes. Every aspect of the renovation will cost much more than the renovation of a newer home. I wouldn't buy the house unless you are sure of what you are getting yourself into.

Great advice.

[Rawker]

Been watching too much Mike Holmes I guess, but you'd think every contractor and home renovator is a crook.

you wouldn't educate kids with tv would you?

[hagbard]

People need to keep in mind the whole premise of Holmes on Holmes is to highlight extreme examples of bad workmanship and contrast that with quality work using the latest and high end products manufacturers have paid to have showcased on the show.

You do need to be very careful you get the right people in for the job. Especially with a home that is 100 + years old, it will present challenges you will not face on a typical renovation on newer homes. Every aspect of the renovation will cost much more than the renovation of a newer home. I wouldn't buy the house unless you are sure of what you are getting yourself into.

The agent says the house has been well maintained, and I think its true. It was used as the minister's house. Very dated by appears functional. I'm thinking it needs drywall on the ceiling (has some kind of suspended ceiling now), removal of tons of wallpaper, not sure about the boiler system (every one I've had experience with knocks), and the kitchen belongs in a early 60s rec hall....other than that, its fine. Other stuff can wait.

you wouldn't educate kids with tv would you?

Huh? We don't own a TV.

[Yellow00]

Please make sure that the wiring is up to code . If the house is that old it might have "knob and tube" wiring which is a big NO-NO for insurance companies and it will cost you a fortune to upgrade it . Personally I would buy something newer , unless you have an excellent deal for this property . With older houses there are lots of problems ( insulation , aged piping , old furnace , leaking basement ... ) it is very costly to fix them and after all that money spent you still have a 100+ year old house .

[Dustbunny]

First thing is to have the house inspected so you know what is there, what might need replacing etc. If it has been well maintained, the money may have been spent on the mechanicals and electrical. Also know a lot of old houses have systems that still are in great shape and work fine but you need to know what is what with each particular house. As far as the knob & tube, your insurance company can tell you what they will and won't be happy about and they are pretty good at listing it all off I can tell you. I have K&T in this house and they are fine with it, they were not fine with aluminum, they were not fine with anything under 100 AMP service (older homes often still have 60). They don't like lead pipes either. Things like the 100 AMP service and pipes can be things they need done within 30 days so you need to know what your insurance co. does with older homes.

Meanwhile there are good contractors out there but you have to work to find them. That means asking for referrals from people who have had work done, asking for references, checking them out to ensure you are getting the skills and experience you need. Unfortunately there is no way to be absolutely positively sure, but you can go a long way to making sure it's done right if you take your time and cover as much as you can before you hand over a dollar.

I can tell you that after having a couple older homes, you sure get handy because there is usually so much to do. You also learn which things to just get the pros to handle real quick.

[hagbard]

The wiring all appeared to be fairly new, there were some knob and tube in the attic but no wires going through it. The fuse box looked like it was for a 100amp service. The "furnace" supplies the radiators and has no boiler so I suspect its probably twenty years or less. The basement looked dry and didn't show any signs of water, moreover, the water tank and "furnace" were both in locations where they'd be damaged if any substantial amounts of water got it. I'm guessing that there wouldn't be much insulation.

[Dustbunny]

Well that sounds good so far, but you really can't be sure of things like insulation until you get someone to check. There are a lot of old homes that have been fully updated as time has passed but when it's all behind the walls it's hard to know (for instance in my old house, some of the K&T has been replaced, but not all of it). Also, just because a house is old doesn't mean it was ever wet in the basement. I see more leaky new basements than old ones, it really depends since so many factors can cause that problem and some have nothing to do with structure.

What can be critical in older homes is things like the wood. The supports, joists, etc. need to be checked as they can age and be damaged by things like termites. You want to make sure that structure is solid, walls and other cosmetic things can all be fixed over time and pretty reasonably, but structure can kill you literally and financially. You also can't always judge by appearance. Some old supports look awful but have been like that since the day the house was built and are a solid as can be while others look fine and are basically hollow inside now. To me, that is the stuff that is important and what follows is the mechanicals. I've seen houses around here that still have gravity furnaces and they still work beautifully while a 20 year old system may be a real big one to fix. Don't guess in other words, get an expert in to help you.

If you want some real help figuring out an old house and what to look for, take a look at http://www.oldhouseweb.com/forums/ and see what they say. They all have old houses there and have all been through it.

[Drew_W]

Of course. It's just hard to find good ones. These days anyone can be a "contractor".

[Psycho44]

the best contractors are through word of mouth

my contractors are my relatives, siblings and anyone remotely related to me which is scary when you say anyone can be a contractor it's true lol. I'm getting them to insulate, install walls, build washrooms, fix roof gutters and wall leaks and such. 2 of them are actual contractors that work for a company while the rest are just foot soldiers. I think most important is having a good project leader that can spot when someone is doing something incorrectly and correct the problem.

[BuildingHomes]

Of course. It's just hard to find good ones. These days anyone can be a "contractor".

The same can be said for many customers. Some people are just out to lunch when they are expecting a rock bottom price and then wonder why they don't get the world.

[hagbard]

Not sure how much of a role "rock bottom prices" plays. Seems there are incompetent people in the business regardless of what they charge. We had a handyman in our last location who charged very little and did a great job. And I've seen new houses built around where I live that look like they were made by grade schoolers.

[Pete_Coach]

There are many good contractors and handymen out there. Trick is which ones are they? I don't know either but, if you go into the search fully prepared, you should be able to tell which are good or not.
By being prepared and having a complete list of everything that needs to be done, ensuring everyone is licensed and permitted and that clean up is included is a long way to separating the good from bad. A good work statement is one that leave nothing (or very little) to chance.
Many people get ripped off (or feel like they are getting ripped off) because they are not familiar enough with the tasks. What seems simple may not be and vice versa. The smarter you are or sound like you are about something (home renos or cars or anything), the better you will be in negotiations.
Always think things over. Give yourself at least 48 hours to check out the people. Always call the references they provide (most people do not and they know it). A quality craftsman is proud of his work and wants to show it off.

[speedyforme]

thank god my dad does reno, now if only I can find a trustworthy auto mechanic

[Pete_Coach]

thank god my dad does reno, now if only I can find a trustworthy auto mechanic

Just what would any tradesman (carpenter, mechanic, technician) have to do to be "trustworthy" in your realm? Agree with everything you say? Do things your way. For free?
You need to be specific.

[speedyforme]

Just what would any tradesman (carpenter, mechanic, technician) have to do to be "trustworthy" in your realm? Agree with everything you say? Do things your way. For free?
You need to be specific.

It goes along your lines of me knowing what I'm talking about. I think if I educated myself on cars, might be able to trust or understand what needs to be done, the costs and frequency.

Although it's just me saying: if I had a friend who got into mechanics, I wouldn't have to learn...such a shame my brother didn't go into auto mechanics and decided to do engineering.

[Quick_lude]

Not sure how much of a role "rock bottom prices" plays. Seems there are incompetent people in the business regardless of what they charge. We had a handyman in our last location who charged very little and did a great job. And I've seen new houses built around where I live that look like they were made by grade schoolers.

You are right but so is BuildingHomes. So many times I get referrals but then people try to nickle and dime me about every little thing. So many people want top quality work and materials but don't want to pay for it. I say fine and tell them good luck finding that and walk away.

I really wish Mike Holmes would mention the actual cost of all the work he's doing, on EVERY show.

[BuildingHomes]

I really wish Mike Holmes would mention the actual cost of all the work he's doing, on EVERY show.

Exactly.

[Drew_W]

The same can be said for many customers. Some people are just out to lunch when they are expecting a rock bottom price and then wonder why they don't get the world.

Gotta love it. Low on money, high on expectations. It's a bad mix.

[Drew_W]

Just what would any tradesman (carpenter, mechanic, technician) have to do to be "trustworthy" in your realm? Agree with everything you say? Do things your way. For free?
You need to be specific.

My mechanic is a great guy, totally knows his stuff inside out, does quality work, and is happy to provide advice or one time to look over my car and take it for a short road test to ensure an issue I thought I had was really all in my head with no charge. That sort of thing keeps customer confidence high and keeps me coming back and spending my money. I also brought my dad out from under the "I must go to the dealership for all my service" trance and he's also now a happy customer. It works.

[Drew_W]

Exactly.

My mom knows someone who has access to his services, and says he's unrealistically expensive. It's not really surprising given his reputation.