3 popular receivers X'mas special

[pokguy]

Which is the best deal and quality?

BB
Denon AVR-789 $699 - Now $499 (until Dec 24)

BB
Pioneer 1018 $599 - Boxing day $399

FS
Yamaha HTR-6190B $1,299 - Boxing day $699

[Jumbotron]

Wrong Forum

[SpicYMchaggis]

add this one to the list:

Visions:
Harman Kardon 385W 7.1 Home Theatre Receiver (AVR347) - $497

Im curious also

[hamdude_1234]

I have been really happy with my 1018/

check out avsforums they have threads on all three receivers you are asking about.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1042314&highlight=1018


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1050097&highlight=avr+789


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=888942&highlight=6190b

[rubeus]

hands down the denon is the best value best sounding.

If you have the extra funds go with the yamaha.

[Duuuuude]

Wrong Forum

Why wrong forum? These are great prices.

I have the 1018 (I got it for $397 with a PM :)) and love it but I've heard great things about the 789.

[Advil_Yum]

I'm in the same boat. The yammy seems like too much receiver for me, but at that price, I might try my luck. I've also been eyeing the 1018 and 789 - both are getting good reviews. Lately I've kind of been set on Denon, but these newer Pioneer's are looking nice!
decisions, decisions!

[thisunreal]

The good thing about 1018 is that a USB port for MP3/WMA is available which not seen in other receivers.

[da_hool]

Where would the Onkyo TX-SR606 rank compared to the above?

[mlc2000]

I have the Yammy 6190B, I bought it for $1099 last fall, and that was a good price.
Very tight sound, it does a magnificent job with my 7.1 system pumping 130W/channel.

The Yamaha has 4/1 HDMI.
The Denon and the Pioneer have 3/1.

The deal on the Yamaha is so good, it doesn't even make sense to look at the other two. If you have $399-499 to spend, do yourself a favour and spend $699. You won't be disappointed.

Incidentally, I have another Yamaha that normally retails for $500.
It does not even remotely compare to the 6190.

That is how different the 6190 is to the other 2 receivers.

[Miguel]

BB
Denon AVR-789 $699 - Now $499 (until Dec 24)
I just got this for $399... go to FS and speak to a rep, see what they can do for you.
no ipod connectivity is only major negative here.

BB
Pioneer 1018 $599 - Boxing day $399
great receiver, front usb port is a big plus. Ugly GUI but lots of tweaks available

FS
Yamaha HTR-6190B $1,299 - Boxing day $699[/QUOTE]
good receiver, almost double the price of the 1018 and 789 though.

any of these should be fine though.

[Cisco KId]

Where would the Onkyo TX-SR606 rank compared to the above?

exactly as that would be my choice of all of them, check reviews

[zzz3]

I have the Yammy 6190B, I bought it for $1099 last fall, and that was a good price.
Very tight sound, it does a magnificent job with my 7.1 system pumping 130W/channel.

The Yamaha has 4/1 HDMI.
The Denon and the Pioneer have 3/1.

The deal on the Yamaha is so good, it doesn't even make sense to look at the other two. If you have $399-499 to spend, do yourself a favour and spend $699. You won't be disappointed.

Incidentally, I have another Yamaha that normally retails for $500.
It does not even remotely compare to the 6190.

That is how different the 6190 is to the other 2 receivers.

Are you running a separate amp? With the money i will have left over from returning and rebuying i may be able to get an amp to boost more power to my speakers.

[typer100]

I don't know about the other 2, but the Pioneer is a big amp. I had to cut the back of my audio/video shelf to let that baby in.

That's a lot of amp for the money.

[Advil_Yum]

don't forget about the Pioneer Elite VSX-9130-TXH-K for $699 as well. (from $899 at best buy)
The difference with this amp is it has THX Select 2. The other spec's seem to be similar to the 1080, although it's an Elite brand, which I'm assuming uses better parts overall along with THX Select 2.

[kamascottra]

don't forget about the Pioneer Elite VSX-9130-TXH-K for $699 as well. (from $899 at best buy)
The difference with this amp is it has THX Select 2. The other spec's seem to be similar to the 1080, although it's an Elite brand, which I'm assuming uses better parts overall along with THX Select 2.

it also has:
one more optical audio input
s-video inputs
RS-232 connection.

those were the only significant differences i could find going through both owners manuals. nothing that seemed to indicate a 200dollar difference to me, so i'd hope there's some upgraded parts being used. that's the only way they could justify it

[Advil_Yum]

nothing that seemed to indicate a 200dollar difference to me, so i'd hope there's some upgraded parts being used. that's the only way they could justify it
actually THX Select 2 is probably MOST of that extra cost due to the licensing fees to implement it...

[kamascottra]

if that's the case i'll stick with the 1018. i've actually heard some pretty poor things about the thx features. seems there are quite a few competitors(audyssey for example) that have made large leaps forward.

it always seems funny to me that some programming software can raise the price so much. i guess they have to pay for it on a per-unit basis, cause otherwise it seems like once you buy the rights, it would only cost you .000001cents to install it in every receiver you make. i guess i understand it, but it doesn't seem natural is all. i have to reason it out in my mind every time.

[Cas77]

if that's the case i'll stick with the 1018. i've actually heard some pretty poor things about the thx features. seems there are quite a few competitors(audyssey for example) that have made large leaps forward.

it always seems funny to me that some programming software can raise the price so much. i guess they have to pay for it on a per-unit basis, cause otherwise it seems like once you buy the rights, it would only cost you .000001cents to install it in every receiver you make. i guess i understand it, but it doesn't seem natural is all. i have to reason it out in my mind every time.

It's actually quite natural in the licencing world...Does Dell pay for 1 copy of Windows for all the PC's they sell?

[adwoodw]

The boxing day price for the Harman Kardon avr347 is now $497.00 as of Dec 23 7:00pm PST. Delivery is $8.87 express for me in Vancouver.

https://www2.visions.ca//catalogue/category/Details.aspx?menuId=368&categoryId=143&productId=73

[Advil_Yum]

I think I explained that incorrectly. Think of THX more like an ISO certification. That's all.
The components have to meet a certain level of quality testing in order to use the badge. It's that testing for the certification that costs money. I don't think it actually adds any type of special decoding - just knowledge in the fact that the components meet or exceed a very high level of standards.
There was an article somewhere I once came across that explained it ten times better than I could ever, but if I recall correctly, that's the gist of it.
I'm sure Google will come in handy here if you want to learn more about it.

Here's (http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/thx-select-and-thx-ultra2-certification-general-questions) a decent one that starts to explain it all.

From the THX website (http://www.thx.com/products/home/logos/index.html);How do you choose the right THX Certified products for your listening environment? THX makes shopping for home entertainment products easy. To help you find the right products for your room, THX has established performance categories based on the size of specific listening areas. For example, a THX Select2 Certified AV receiver is engineered for rooms with a viewing distance* of approximately 10 – 12 feet from the display to the primary seating position. By contrast, THX Ultra2 Certified products are engineered for rooms with a viewing distance of 12 feet and beyond.

In short, you probably won't realize any difference at all, other than the knowledge that it has been thoroughly tested for quality and performance.

[wobuscus]

I was happy with the AVR-789 at 599 a few months ago. I havn't played with the other receivers but I am quite pleased with the 789 in all regards except the remote, but a Harmony ONE has my name on it.

To put it in perspective, im not pissed to find it on sale for 100$ less than I payed for it, and even registered to tell about it.

Im sure all the receivers listed are more than adequate for all but the most demanding HT enthusiast. The yammy does sound like an intriguing choice though.

[loonieryan]

While the Pioneer 1018 is an excellent receiver, the Yamaha is not even in the same class. For $699 it's a very, very good deal.

[kamascottra]

It's actually quite natural in the licencing world...Does Dell pay for 1 copy of Windows for all the PC's they sell?

like i said, i understand it once i think about it. it's just not my natural instinct. i forget that they are paying to use somebody else's technology vs. just installing their own developed technology.

[kamascottra]

I think I explained that incorrectly. Think of THX more like an ISO certification. That's all.
The components have to meet a certain level of quality testing in order to use the badge. It's that testing for the certification that costs money. I don't think it actually adds any type of special decoding - just knowledge in the fact that the components meet or exceed a very high level of standards.
There was an article somewhere I once came across that explained it ten times better than I could ever, but if I recall correctly, that's the gist of it.
I'm sure Google will come in handy here if you want to learn more about it.

Here's (http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/thx-select-and-thx-ultra2-certification-general-questions) a decent one that starts to explain it all.

From the THX website (http://www.thx.com/products/home/logos/index.html);

In short, you probably won't realize any difference at all, other than the knowledge that it has been thoroughly tested for quality and performance.

yeah i figured it was more of a 'meets a certain standard' rating, but i've read at least a few THX-select receivers coming with THX surround modes, similar to say the audyssey modes. and in fact, the one review i remember said you had to choose between THX or Audyssey, and the Audyssey beat it hands down.

[steen]

2001 Audio Video in the GTA has the Yamaha RX-V1800 for $699.99.
It is the same model as the Yamaha HTR-6190B.

[zzz3]

2001 Audio Video in the GTA has the Yamaha RX-V1800 for $699.99.
It is the same model as the Yamaha HTR-6190B.

The second remote on the rx-v1800 would be nice, what is 2001's return/exchange policy like for boxing day stuff and how many per store are they guaranteeing?

[steen]

The second remote on the rx-v1800 would be nice, what is 2001's return/exchange policy like for boxing day stuff and how many per store are they guaranteeing?
No idea about their return policy. Flyer says 150 units chainwide and I think they have 20 stores.

[pestilenc]

I have the Yamaha. I bought it for $799 at BB on one of their Friends/Family deals a while back. Its a fantastic amp, tons of inputs, great sound, although the remote is a bit ugly. It even has an rs-232 port so you can control it with your PC.

I was set on getting a Denon but heard conflicting reports of it and Klipsch speakers so I settled on the Yamaha. I couldn't be happier with my choice.

[White Comet]

Anyone know why the Denon AVR-889 is cheaper than the Denon AVR-789 at futureshop??

EDIT: or rather the same price?? I heard people mentioning the 789 for $499, same price as the 889

[appleb]

Does anyone know if any of these receivers will pass HDMI video/sound even when the receiver is turned off (or at least in standby?).

Sometimes i don't want to bother anyone in my condo and just want to use my tv speakers instead of going 5.1 every time.

[kamascottra]

i don't know about when they are off, but i believe at least the pioneer there is a setting to bypass the amp and send the audio to the tv.

i'd suggest quickly going through the owners manuals on each to find out for sure.

[kamascottra]

Anyone know why the Denon AVR-889 is cheaper than the Denon AVR-789 at futureshop??

EDIT: or rather the same price?? I heard people mentioning the 789 for $499, same price as the 889

that just might be the deal to go with. i was originally hoping for the 889, but figured it was out of my price range. now i've got an hour to decide!

i think if i was so set on the pioneer it would be a no brainer to go with the denon 889

[White Comet]

that just might be the deal to go with. i was originally hoping for the 889, but figured it was out of my price range. now i've got an hour to decide!

i think if i was so set on the pioneer it would be a no brainer to go with the denon 889

Yea, but here I'm thinking if I should PM w/ bestbuy since this is not a boxing day deal only. It lasts till Jan.1/'09

[kamascottra]

Yea, but here I'm thinking if I should PM w/ bestbuy since this is not a boxing day deal only. It lasts till Jan.1/'09

what's there raincheck policy? says only 2 left...

good catch on the pm opportunity though. now i'm really not sure what to do. it would be like 469 after the PM

[White Comet]

the only thing that worries me is the AVR-889 becoming Out-Of-Stock =.=

[swalk]

Just ordered the Pioneer VSX-1018 from BestBuy and shipping was only $20. Can't wait to get this :)

[scarboroughjoe]

I just got the Yamaha HTR-6190B, also $19.99 shipping for me.

I've never spent so much money after doing only 45min of research :) It did seem like a no-brainer for the price...

[Advil_Yum]

I got the Yamaha 6190B! Yahoo!!!
...and the Pioneer 1018 from Best Buy as a backup! lol (a backup meaning, in case I didn't get the Yamaha - but it will be going back unless my brother in law wants it.... or someone wants to purchase from me. I will charge basically what I spent - $399 + $20 shipping and tax).

[CanadianTSi]

The 1018 is on sale from BB at 399 Until the 4th of January and is currently 599 at FS, so with a PM that would bring it to 379.

[Caspar]

The Denon AVR-889 is on sale at FS for 499.99... and dang, it sold out. I pulled the trigger on the AVR-789 4 days ago and I have it right now... unopened... planning to return it in favor of the Pioneer 1018. If I some how manage to get the AVR-889 for 499.99, I'll cancel the Pioneer; otherwise the Pioneer is a keeper.

[swalk]

The 1018 is on sale from BB at 399 Until the 4th of January and is currently 599 at FS, so with a PM that would bring it to 379.

Where do you see this? Their boxing day flyer says prices are only good until the 27th. If this is true then I'll try to cancel my order.

[CanadianTSi]

Where do you see this? Their boxing day flyer says prices are only good until the 27th. If this is true then I'll try to cancel my order.

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10108703&catid=20313

[swalk]

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10108703&catid=20313

Hmm. What happens if I try to PM at FS and they don't have any in stock?

[amplified]

Where would the Onkyo TX-SR606 rank compared to the above?


Based on features it's right up there with the yamaha, but the yamaha beats it based on sound quality. Onkyo gets the nod on affordablility though as you should be able to get it for around 350-400US by now. With the money you save getting the onkyo, you could put towards a speaker package.

BTW I own the onkyo.

[White Comet]

Hmm. What happens if I try to PM at FS and they don't have any in stock?

Dang, I really do hope that FS re-stock soon, or have some in the back before the sale ends T_T

[kamascottra]

i grabbed the 1018, and i know all of RFD will shun me for saying this, but saving an extra 20bux doesn't seem worth the hassle and risk of PMing later on.

i decided to try buying both the denon 889 and pioneer 1018 and just kinda 'see what happens'.

the denon was sold out before i got through the queue so i didn't have to decide. i'm pretty happy and excited for the pioneer to arrive. i think i'm pretty lucky, that considering the 'deals' out there this year that the EXACT model receiver i've been waiting a month for happened to be on sale, and actually on sale too, not just the 'normal' sale price it is every other week.

if i'm not mistaken, both the pioneer and yammy are still both in stock. both excellent deals if you ask me, just depends what level you're looking for. i wanted the cheapest i could find that had conversion and enough hdmi/component inputs to handle all my HD sources. the yammy would have been overkill for my needs. not a bad thing, but double the price is still double the price.

[chestnut]

http://www.kromerradio.com/promo.htm

Marantz SR6001 for $688 at Kromer Radio gets my vote.

Pioneer Elite vsx90 $550

[googoo]

Most people would love any of these units, but don't buy based on tons of features, the basics that you require and sound quality should be your first priorities.

If you need decoding, get a receiver that does that, TONS of surround modes are pretty much useless, and any menu system can be learned in less than an hour. I've always found the auto set-up systems work pretty well if you don't have a sound level meter.

Make sure you have the connections you need, do you really need 3 hdmi "ins"? and remember that there is VERY little likely hood that you will run an amp hot enough for it to clip, so don't be too worried about amp ratings(but keep in mind the heavier receiver are usually that way because of a beefier power supply, and that make for better power reserves and better transient response, + the ability to run 4 ohm loads usually means a better ps).

Look for a receiver with something called "surround stereo", it feeds stero to all the speakers, it's GREAT at a party...

Sound quality I'd go

Marantz and HK
Denon very slightly behind
Yamaha
Onkyo
Pioneer 9130
Pioneer 1018 ........IMO:)

Although the Pioneer looks a lot like the vaunted 1014tx-k of 4 years ago I don't think the amp section is nearly as beefy,

Brent

I'd go with the Denon!

[d3000]

The Brick also has the yamaha on for 688.

[MaDgamEr]

That Yammy 6190 is heads and shoulders above the rest... Its almost in the same class as the Denon 3808 and that retials for over $1,500! Then again, Denon build quality and tone is second to none!

[kamascottra]

Most people would love any of these units, but don't buy based on tons of features, the basics that you require and sound quality should be your first priorities.

If you need decoding, get a receiver that does that, TONS of surround modes are pretty much useless, and any menu system can be learned in less than an hour. I've always found the auto set-up systems work pretty well if you don't have a sound level meter.

Make sure you have the connections you need, do you really need 3 hdmi "ins"? and remember that there is VERY little likely hood that you will run an amp hot enough for it to clip, so don't be too worried about amp ratings(but keep in mind the heavier receiver are usually that way because of a beefier power supply, and that make for better power reserves and better transient response, + the ability to run 4 ohm loads usually means a better ps).

Look for a receiver with something called "surround stereo", it feeds stero to all the speakers, it's GREAT at a party...

Sound quality I'd go

Marantz and HK
Denon very slightly behind
Yamaha
Onkyo
Pioneer 9130
Pioneer 1018 ........IMO:)

Although the Pioneer looks a lot like the vaunted 1014tx-k of 4 years ago I don't think the amp section is nearly as beefy,

Brent

I'd go with the Denon!

agree with most, but what sounds best is VERY personal. you must listen to each if you are going to use that as a deciding factor(as one should).

i must be an abnormal user, cause i could easily use 4hdmi inputs, and i don't even have a BD player yet.

xbox360 hdmi or component/optical
wii component/rca
DVD hdmi or component/optical
HTPC hdmi and coax audio
cable hdmi/optical

it seems not many receivers allow you to hook up more than 5 a/v sources. when i finally get a BD player i'm gonna be 'wanting more' already.

i've been extremely happy with the performance of my Sony STR-930DB for the past decade. the only reason i needed an upgrade was for component and hdmi video switching(the only video i use now) and more digital audio inputs(not needed with the hdmi now though). features and inputs are more important to me than squeaking that last 10watts or .0001%THD out of the amp. all of the amps mentioned are pretty good, nothing is garbage by any means, so the differences while noticeable on high end systems, aren't obvious to most while just using them. i can have the best and clearest sound ever, but if i can't hook up all my components using the best possible connections it's all for not.

i was turned away from quite a few 'quality' receivers due to lack of inputs. apparently ppl with money to spend and an ear for quality don't own a lot of gear?? didn't make sense to me either

[Drew_W]

Marantz SR6001 for $688 at Kromer Radio gets my vote.

That price is a touch high considering we've been clearing out distributor inventory of the SR6001 for $549.

A better deal would be the SR5003, available for not much more money.

[Caspar]

The Denon AVR-889 is back in stock for 499.99... GO!

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10109406&catid=10551

[kamascottra]

The Denon AVR-889 is back in stock for 499.99... GO!

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10109406&catid=10551

hmm, extra hdmi, audyssey stuff, denon quality, only 100bux more. sometimes i hate decisions

[White Comet]

The Denon AVR-889 is back in stock for 499.99... GO!

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10109406&catid=10551

*$#(#&@ Thanks a lot...going to order one

[recordman]

Ordered the Denon. It has good/great reviews. The Audyssey stuff is neat and quite useful.

[kamascottra]

with the pioneer 1018 now showing oos, it's even more of a no-brainer imo.

don't look back guys, if you've been considering one, grab this, it's a stellar price.

[tickyboy]

Tempted on the 889.. I think that's probably the second best deal out there right now, I'm really interested in the audyssey feature, I'm currently using a pioneer 9120 and I do find I change the volume every once in a while.

[kamascottra]

Tempted on the 889.. I think that's probably the second best deal out there right now, I'm really interested in the audyssey feature, I'm currently using a pioneer 9120 and I do find I change the volume every once in a while.

what's the other deal you're considering? i have seen anything i would consider direct competition for this one left around.
the yammy for 699 is a step up in every way including price imo. so it's not about what's the better deal, it's about what level of performance you are looking for

[Flymeaway]

Update.

FS
Denon AVR-889 $799 - Boxing Day $499

BB
Pioneer 1018 $599 - Boxing day $399

FS
Yamaha HTR-6190B $1,299 - Boxing day $699

Visions
Harman Kardon AVR347 Reg $999 - Web only $497



I was going to pick up at 1018 but now i am debating on the 889 based on what people are saying.

[jpthornhill]

Yamaha got my vote.
I have bought a Yamaha Cinema Station a few years ago. Very
satisfied with its quality and looking for upgrade it to a real
home entertainment central receiver unit.

[a4rules]

Ordered the Pioneer 1018 online from Best Buy last night. I have the Yammy RXV-1800 in my main theater room (phenomel receiver) already and now I'm able to match my Pioneer plasma in the living room with a Pioneer receiver.

[Caspar]

The AVR-889 deal is almost dead so get it before it's all gone!

For those that are interested in the Pioneer VSX-1018TXV-K but missed the deal, I have one on order that's unverified. What this means is that I haven't called in to verify my payment information but it's on hold for my order. If you want the unit and live in LOWER MAIN LAND BC, please drop me a PM. Note that you CANNOT back out of the deal because once I verify, I would have to pay shipping for it. So think clearly before you PM me. The end amount you need to pay me would be the cost of the unit plus shipping and tax.

[HappyDaze]

Ordered the AVR-889! Now I need a TV to go along with it... Judging from what I've read, a $999 42" 120Hz 40,000:1 LG70 looks pretty good...

[no idea]

Denon 889 now oos at FS.

[Flymeaway]

Update.

FS
Denon AVR-889 $799 - Boxing Day $499

BB
Pioneer 1018 $599 - Boxing day $399

FS
Yamaha HTR-6190B $1,299 - Boxing day $699

Visions
Harman Kardon AVR347 Reg $999 - Web only $497



AVR347 is the only one still in stock at this point.

[a4rules]

The Harman Kardon AVR254 still have stock at FS. Order this one if you've missed out on both the Pioneer 1018 at BB and the Denon AVR-889 at FS.

[dgs]

The AVR-889 is the best deal of the bunch imho. The 889 and 989 are both built in Japan - the other models below this in the range are made in China. You won't see a price lower than this until they clear them out in the fall for the following year's range (if then even, with the Canadian Dollar where it is now)

[donye]

Is the avr-889 better than pioneer1018?
Ordered 2 AVR-889. One for basement and one for livingroom.

[tomincanada]

Is the avr-889 better than pioneer1018?
Ordered 2 AVR-889. One for basement and one for livingroom.

IMO it's a better model. I'd take Denon over Pioneer any day of the week but that's just my opinion. Denon has a strong reputation for sound & build quality.

[appleb]

For the Denon AVR-889, I missed out on the initial online sale on the 24th and the restock on the 25th... however I was able to walk into a FS this morning and find one in stock at the store (Empress Walk Toronto). I got the only one in stock though.

The 889 is just about perfect for me. I wanted the extra fourth hdmi over the 789... the Pioneer 1018 was a bit too physically large for my setup, and the Yamaha 6190B has the BTB and WTW clipping issue on the hdmi signal (which may or may not really be an issue, but I'd rather be safe than sorry).

Clipping thread if you're wondering what I'm talking about: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1010178

[MaDgamEr]

For the Denon AVR-889, I missed out on the initial online sale on the 24th and the restock on the 25th... however I was able to walk into a FS this morning and find one in stock at the store (Empress Walk Toronto). I got the only one in stock though.

The 889 is just about perfect for me. I wanted the extra fourth hdmi over the 789... the Pioneer 1018 was a bit too physically large for my setup, and the Yamaha 6190B has the BTB and WTW clipping issue on the hdmi signal (which may or may not really be an issue, but I'd rather be safe than sorry).

Clipping thread if you're wondering what I'm talking about: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1010178
Funny, I don't think that someone with a $500 AVR budget is too concerned with Blacker-than black (BTB) and Whiter-than-white (WTW) potential clipping as they're usually not the type of consumer that spends the cash ($250+++) to properly cal their tv's to begin with... Let be reasonable here people. Most of these people simply plop their __" tv on a stand, out of the box and enjoy it as is, never actually taking the tv out of "torch mode". So how much detail are they missing to begin with? Hmmm....

If you're a video and/or audio phile and detail freak, you'd be spending thousands and calibrating everything properly to boot, THEN I could see this as being a potential problem. Other than that, enjoy your great deal.

BTW, built in net radio KICKS BUTT!

If you want a smokin' deal, go to a AV specialty store, and negotiate yourself a good price ($1,200-$1,400) on a Yammy RXV-3800 or Denon 3808CI. Hands down, best bang for buck right now... Then there's Sherwood-Newcastle... But then you're geting into discretes and most people couldn't be bothered with the extra space/steps in setting it up.

[CanadianTSi]

Went to BB and they had about 10 of the Pio 1018's. Went to FS and they had none on the shelve so I asked and Kid if they had any and he said no, so as I continued looking around I spotted 1 buried in the middle of a giant pile of speakers and stuff. I asked another guy if they would PM it since its on at BB for $399 and he said sure no questions asked.

As I went through the cash the girl put it through at $399 so I mentioned the 10% of the difference, she sat there trying to figure it out in her head and then turned to me and said "I'm really bad at math, do you know what this should be?" Being the honest person I am I said $379 but I'm sure I could of said something lower and she would of had no clue.

[yellowdogx]

I ordered the 1018 online yesterday (last one:))

[CanadianTSi]

I ordered the 1018 online yesterday (last one:))

I'm Unwrapping mine right now :D

[journalista271]

Damn. Canadian TSi: did exactly the same thing at FS in Winnipeg. Got the 1018, but they wouldn't do 10%.

[couchman]

IMO it's a better model. I'd take Denon over Pioneer any day of the week but that's just my opinion. Denon has a strong reputation for sound & build quality.

I will likely also be keeping the denon over the pioneer.
If anybody wants to pick up the pioneer 1018 downtown toronto for what I paid for it (399 + shipping + tax) pm me, otherwise it's back to bestbuy.

[jjtsl]

Finally got my hands on the second last Denon 889 this morning at Markham East FS. Arrived at about 6am and just literally walked becoz the line-up was moving swiftly into the store, and to the AV receivers section. Lining up to pay was quite the b***h though.

Now looking for a surround sound package, narrowing down to the Energy Take package or the Polk Audio RM6880. Any suggestions?

[Flymeaway]

Went to bestbuy at 11:30 they were all sold out of 1018, but had a ton of 889 so i had them pm futureshop i got it for $479

[Pinuz]

anyone knows what's left in lower mainland? (GVA)
yamaha denon or pioneer, don't care for the price, don't care for the hdmi (I use a matrix to feed 4

[kibb]

It seems you can still order the Yamaha for $699 from FS online, if you order the package with the Samsung Blu-ray player. On its own the receiver is sold out. In the package, "out of stock; will ship when available."

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=BDL10002869&logon=&langid=EN

[BigM]

Finally got my hands on the second last Denon 889 this morning at Markham East FS. Arrived at about 6am and just literally walked becoz the line-up was moving swiftly into the store, and to the AV receivers section. Lining up to pay was quite the b***h though.

Now looking for a surround sound package, narrowing down to the Energy Take package or the Polk Audio RM6880. Any suggestions?

I've checked the web both are very good. I ask couple sales person in audio of FS. they said Energy Take classic is better.

[NotMoneyGuy]

Though my first ever receiver was a Pioneer (SX-650), I wanted to replace my current Denon (AVR-2000) with another Denon, but the $699.99 Yamaha HTR6190B deal was more tempting....

Also considered the Pioneer 1018 for $399.99 but jumped all over a signage error this morning at a BB and scored the Pioneer VSX-9130TXH-K for the same $399.99.

Dollars aside, does the P-9130 match the Y-6190 or what would be the shortcomings or major differences?

[Advil_Yum]

I purchased both the Yamaha 6180B from FS and Pioneer 1018 from BB, in case I couldn't get one or the other. I really wanted the Yamaha, and I seemed to have gotten it. I haven't received my shipping notice yet, though.
Anyway, I was *just* about to cancel the order for the Pioneer when my email went off.... shipped!
So.... if anyone is looking for this Receiver in the Kitchener-Waterloo area, PM me. I will sell it for exactly what I paid - $474.58.
Otherwise, it'll be going back to the Kitchener BB sometime after it arrives.

[a4rules]

Strange. I just bought the Pioneer 1018 at BB on GVR-Kingsway store just now and there are still 7 of them in a stack. I guess it was somewhat hidden and no one saw them. Get it now if you are in Vancouver!

[a4rules]

Went to bestbuy at 11:30 they were all sold out of 1018, but had a ton of 889 so i had them pm futureshop i got it for $479

I thought there were no price match policy on Boxing Day. Good goin.

[kamascottra]

Though my first ever receiver was a Pioneer (SX-650), I wanted to replace my current Denon (AVR-2000) with another Denon, but the $699.99 Yamaha HTR6190B deal was more tempting....

Also considered the Pioneer 1018 for $399.99 but jumped all over a signage error this morning at a BB and scored the Pioneer VSX-9130TXH-K for the same $399.99.

Dollars aside, does the P-9130 match the Y-6190 or what would be the shortcomings or major differences?

my understandings was that the 9130 is nearly identical to the 1018 actually. couple extra inputs(s-video, 1 more optical, RS-232), and THX-certification. so i suppose you are 'gaurenteed' a high level of quality with the THX certification, but you aren't really gaurenteed to NOT have that same level with the 1018.

based on that i'd say the yammy is a superior receiver. however, the pioneer might be the better deal

[consumerPI]

That was the clincher for me today. Nothing like in ausb key full of mp3into your receiver and have it instantly play!!! Props to Pioneer for adding this feature. Anyone know if the 918 or 818 Pioneers do this (it says USB for ipod, but that may be different). Also, any other receivers have this feature - I keep asking the sales people and it's like no one knows.

The good thing about 1018 is that a USB port for MP3/WMA is available which not seen in other receivers.

[consumerPI]

Nice, score,can you PM me with the store location?
Thanks.

Though my first ever receiver was a Pioneer (SX-650), I wanted to replace my current Denon (AVR-2000) with another Denon, but the $699.99 Yamaha HTR6190B deal was more tempting....

Also considered the Pioneer 1018 for $399.99 but jumped all over a signage error this morning at a BB and scored the Pioneer VSX-9130TXH-K for the same $399.99.

Dollars aside, does the P-9130 match the Y-6190 or what would be the shortcomings or major differences?

[scotty01]

I went to Future Shop late in the afternoon yesterday. I wasn't expecting to walk out w/ any of the really good deals as the hounds go out early. However, with that said it was one of the most successful ever! Walked out w/ the LAST 2 Toshiba L300 laptop's priced @ $649.99 [$200. off each]. One for the wifey and my brother in law wanted one for his wife.

Then I was also on the fence about the Yamaha HTR6190. It had everything I wanted and more incl. 4 HDMI inputs. Knew the deal was sweet and couldn't be beat. Just was too lazy to wake up and wait in line. While in the store I asked 3 different reps if they had one and they all told me the same line -- first thing they cleared out in the morning. Knew that would happen. While waiting in the never ending check out line, the one sales rep spotted me and told me he found one hidden on the back of the top shelf behind a TV! Couldn't believe it.. I was like a kid in the candy store. He quickly went up and grabbed it and handed it right to me. Great guy, great store.

Finally, saw a beautiful TV stand, component stand that would be a wonderful piece in our great room. Needed something nice to display all of the components and at the same time match the existing furniture. It was a hefty ~$400. regular price however, and too rich for my blood. Noticed a sign close by that mentioned 'Up to 50% off select TV stands'. Found a diff. sales rep to inquire if this were included in the special. It was not. Explained that I was willing to take if half price. He went away for awhile, came back and told me to take it up and tell them [input name here] said its half price, and to rip up the promo sign afterwards! :)

To sum things up I spent a lot more $$$ than I intended (or have for that matter!! LOL) however walked out with some amazing deals and still smiling today, as is the wife!

Cheers.

[mtommy79]

Walked into FS 7am yesterday just to look around and see if i can buy the Rogers HDPVR.
Of course none left so and decided to check the receivers, they still had about 3 Yamaha units. I was about to leave when the Sales guy approached me and started to praise the unit. Mind you i currently have the Pioneer VSX-9120THX so i wasn't really interested, but he popped the question "I'll take 50$ off if you buy one". I told him i wanted to get the HDPVR but it's sold out already, that's why i came. When i said that, he pulled me aside, took me to the back storage and handed me a brand new Rogers HDPVR. I looked inside and i swear they had about +20 units at the back. So i got my PVR and couldn't resist to his offer on the Receiver. When i went to pay he came with me and advised the cashier to sell the Receiver for 649.99$. He did marked the PVR and the Receiver as a package.
Anyway that's the story, but i would like to add that the PVR was faulty so i took it back, told him what happened and he immediately exchanged it with no question. While i was there at least 3 people asked for the Rogers Box but all the salesmens were saying it's all sold out. I guess FS is greedy or they only can sell a limited quantity. Wasn't a bad day at all, now i just have to compare the Yamaha to my Pioneer
Receipt: http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/6900/dsc09960ev9.jpg

[NotMoneyGuy]

Nice, score,can you PM me with the store location?
Thanks.

Thanks, but as per my PM reply to a few @ RFD, I don't want to get any BB staff or manager in trouble, but this photo may be of some use. It was quite far outside of Toronto, at least 150 km.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/NotMoneyGuy/Pioneer9130bill-reducedsize.jpg

[NotMoneyGuy]

Walked into FS 7am yesterday just to look around and see if i can buy the Rogers HDPVR.
Of course none left so and decided to check the receivers, they still had about 3 Yamaha units. I was about to leave when the Sales guy approached me and started to praise the unit. Mind you i currently have the Pioneer VSX-9120THX so i wasn't really interested, but he popped the question "I'll take 50$ off if you buy one". I told him i wanted to get the HDPVR but it's sold out already, that's why i came. When i said that, he pulled me aside, took me to the back storage and handed me a brand new Rogers HDPVR. I looked inside and i swear they had about +20 units at the back. So i got my PVR and couldn't resist to his offer on the Receiver. When i went to pay he came with me and advised the cashier to sell the Receiver for 649.99$. He did marked the PVR and the Receiver as a package.
Anyway that's the story, but i would like to add that the PVR was faulty so i took it back, told him what happened and he immediately exchanged it with no question. While i was there at least 3 people asked for the Rogers Box but all the salesmens were saying it's all sold out. I guess FS is greedy or they only can sell a limited quantity. Wasn't a bad day at all, now i just have to compare the Yamaha to my Pioneer
Receipt: http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/6900/dsc09960ev9.jpg

Stories like that really make me feel good when I screw FF/BB over. Good scoop for you. Cheers!

[tadk666]

Just to let you know restocked on line 27 available. at future shop.

[tadk666]

Just to let you know restocked on line 27 available. at future shop.

It is back to ooo's. hope someone benefited.

[CanadianTSi]

Took me awhile to get the 1018 all figured out, but so far I'm loving it. The Upconverting of all non HD channels makes me :D.

[mconway]

BestBuy is taking orders for the VSX-1018TXV-K again. Just managed to snag one for a friend. 15 available as of 4:43 PM NST.

[X360]

There are a lot of Pioneer 1018 receivers left in Montreal Best Buy stores Anjou + Marche Central... Look like people don't like to buy this receiver that much...

[kamascottra]

I went to Future Shop late in the afternoon yesterday. I wasn't expecting to walk out w/ any of the really good deals as the hounds go out early. However, with that said it was one of the most successful ever! Walked out w/ the LAST 2 Toshiba L300 laptop's priced @ $649.99 [$200. off each]. One for the wifey and my brother in law wanted one for his wife.

Then I was also on the fence about the Yamaha HTR6190. It had everything I wanted and more incl. 4 HDMI inputs. Knew the deal was sweet and couldn't be beat. Just was too lazy to wake up and wait in line. While in the store I asked 3 different reps if they had one and they all told me the same line -- first thing they cleared out in the morning. Knew that would happen. While waiting in the never ending check out line, the one sales rep spotted me and told me he found one hidden on the back of the top shelf behind a TV! Couldn't believe it.. I was like a kid in the candy store. He quickly went up and grabbed it and handed it right to me. Great guy, great store.

Finally, saw a beautiful TV stand, component stand that would be a wonderful piece in our great room. Needed something nice to display all of the components and at the same time match the existing furniture. It was a hefty ~$400. regular price however, and too rich for my blood. Noticed a sign close by that mentioned 'Up to 50% off select TV stands'. Found a diff. sales rep to inquire if this were included in the special. It was not. Explained that I was willing to take if half price. He went away for awhile, came back and told me to take it up and tell them [input name here] said its half price, and to rip up the promo sign afterwards! :)

To sum things up I spent a lot more $$$ than I intended (or have for that matter!! LOL) however walked out with some amazing deals and still smiling today, as is the wife!

Cheers.

i don't know why, but reading this story made me feel good. especially the part about the sales rep actually finding you in line to get you the deal on the yamaha.

sounds like a storybook boxing day for you!

[Pinuz]

found 6190b at the Brick Vancouver for 688$, they had two left in stock

[prufrock]

I got the Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K from FS for $369.99 plus tax.

Best Buy is advertising it until Jan 4th for $399.99. FS.com has it listed as $599.99, but the tag in-store in Grande Prairie, Alberta had a price of $699.99.

10% difference of price protection and it was the $369.99.

Note: both FS and BB are still listing these units as the original model number of VSX-1018VX-K, even though the product in both stores is the correct VSX-1018AH-K. This caused a slight delay when doing the price match. Just point out that FS also has the wrong model number and you're fine.

[zzz3]

Thanks, but as per my PM reply to a few @ RFD, I don't want to get any BB staff or manager in trouble, but this photo may be of some use. It was quite far outside of Toronto, at least 150 km.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/NotMoneyGuy/Pioneer9130bill-reducedsize.jpg

You forgot to block out the employees number beside the sku :lol:, if you post the store it really dose not matter, but its very easy to find out if you leave the employee code there.

[NotMoneyGuy]

You forgot to block out the employees number beside the sku :lol:, if you post the store it really dose not matter, but its very easy to find out if you leave the employee code there.

Good eye on you then, however the cashier totally played it by the book, getting a directive from the manager, attended the signage, met with the floor person, all fell into place....for me!:cheesygri

[paaji]

Can someone point me to right direction.
I bought these speakers from FS
Energy C-Series 2-Way Tower Speaker (C-500) - Black - Single
http://www.futureshop.ca/multimedia/products/regular/10087380.gif
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10087380&logon=&langid=EN#

I am looking for Matching centre and Bookshelf speakers not sure which one should I get?
Btw I have Onkyo TX-SR605 Receiver
thanks

[Miguel]

Can someone point me to right direction.
I bought these speakers from FS
Energy C-Series 2-Way Tower Speaker (C-500) - Black - Single
http://www.futureshop.ca/multimedia/products/regular/10087380.gif
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10087380&logon=&langid=EN#

I am looking for Matching centre and Bookshelf speakers not sure which one should I get?
Btw I have Onkyo TX-SR605 Receiver
thanks
For a 7.1 system...

2 X C-500 Fronts
4 X C-R100 Surrounds.
1 X C-C100 Center
1 10.3 Sub.

[consumerPI]

Match up those beauties with the Energy Take Classic set on sale for $399 (was $899) and you're done.
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10095518&catid=14700&logon=&langid=EN
http://www.futureshop.ca/multimedia/products/large/10095518.jpg

Or if you're on a low budget:
$200 for an Infinity set that was as high as $599 less than 6 months ago.
http://www.bestbuy.ca/multimedia/products/large/10036592.jpg
http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0926INGFS10036592&catid=20323&logon=&langid=EN





Can someone point me to right direction.
I bought these speakers from FS
Energy C-Series 2-Way Tower Speaker (C-500) - Black - Single
http://www.futureshop.ca/multimedia/products/regular/10087380.gif
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10087380&logon=&langid=EN#

I am looking for Matching centre and Bookshelf speakers not sure which one should I get?
Btw I have Onkyo TX-SR605 Receiver
thanks

[jnmontario]

I just finished building an addition and ran cat 5 cabling through the place along with 12AWG speaker cable and coax. I was hoping for an easy solution to distribute the audio/video to each room - I think the Yamaha HTR-6190B would work since it's multi-room capable. That said, the Denon looks to be as well.

I was planning on running video from my modded xbox, put it into the receiver then distribute out from there.

Any suggestions as to which would be superior? I think I read on the avs forum that you can use the cat5 connection on the Yamaha to pull file directories from another comp - can anybody confirm? Also, it looks like external harddrives can't be connected via. the USB on the Yamaha unless somebody knows better.

thks in advance for the advice.

[octapuss]

thanks for the heads up....im still searching as im late to the boxing day game and most of the recievers that im looking for a sold out at both BB FS. I hope they restock soon?

im going to look into the speaker packages





Match up those beauties with the Energy Take Classic set on sale for $399 (was $899) and you're done.
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10095518&catid=14700&logon=&langid=EN
http://www.futureshop.ca/multimedia/products/large/10095518.jpg

Or if you're on a low budget:
$200 for an Infinity set that was as high as $599 less than 6 months ago.
http://www.bestbuy.ca/multimedia/products/large/10036592.jpg
http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0926INGFS10036592&catid=20323&logon=&langid=EN

[audit13]

Since the Yamaha 6190/1800 doesn't pass btb and wtw, will this make a difference when passing a 1080p signal from my BD player to a Pioneer 1080p Kuro?

[jjtsl]

thanks for the heads up....im still searching as im late to the boxing day game and most of the recievers that im looking for a sold out at both BB FS. I hope they restock soon?

im going to look into the speaker packages

For the speakers, go to the stores and search. I found both the Infinity package and the Energy package yesterday in the Markham BB and FS respectively.

[Advil_Yum]

I just finished building an addition and ran cat 5 cabling through the place along with 12AWG speaker cable and coax. I was hoping for an easy solution to distribute the audio/video to each room - I think the Yamaha HTR-6190B would work since it's multi-room capable. That said, the Denon looks to be as well.

I was planning on running video from my modded xbox, put it into the receiver then distribute out from there.

Any suggestions as to which would be superior? I think I read on the avs forum that you can use the cat5 connection on the Yamaha to pull file directories from another comp - can anybody confirm? Also, it looks like external harddrives can't be connected via. the USB on the Yamaha unless somebody knows better.

thks in advance for the advice.

With the Denon, I believe that it uses 2 channels from the 7.1 to create the 2nd zone, effectively making it a 5.1 surround system with 2nd zone, whereas the Yamaha is a "true" multi-zone. 3 zones in fact that can be powered by the receiver itself, or fed to another receiver for "external" power.
I don't think that the Yamaha 6190B has a network connection, so you must be thinking of a different model. With those supported models, yes you can pull video and music from networked Windows boxes.
Also, there is no USB connection on the Yamaha that you're talking about either. The Pioneer 1018 does that was mentioned in this thread.
For a multi-room installation, the Yamaha is superior, IMO.

[paaji]

Match up those beauties with the Energy Take Classic set on sale for $399 (was $899) and you're done.
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10095518&catid=14700&logon=&langid=EN
http://www.futureshop.ca/multimedia/products/large/10095518.jpg

Or if you're on a low budget:
$200 for an Infinity set that was as high as $599 less than 6 months ago.
http://www.bestbuy.ca/multimedia/products/large/10036592.jpg
http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0926INGFS10036592&catid=20323&logon=&langid=EN

Thanks for all the info and recommendations.
I was wonderong that whether you can mix and match with other brand or no. Since I have some credit at Visions but they don't carry energy brands. If so what should I be looking at ex: specifications.
Also is it a must you need have 2 or 4 bookshelf speakers and two tall for rear. Or you can have 4 tall, 1 center and sub. Does it matter or no.
Thanks

[Popnfresh]

I got the Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K from FS for $369.99 plus tax.

Best Buy is advertising it until Jan 4th for $399.99. FS.com has it listed as $599.99, but the tag in-store in Grande Prairie, Alberta had a price of $699.99.

10% difference of price protection and it was the $369.99.

Note: both FS and BB are still listing these units as the original model number of VSX-1018VX-K, even though the product in both stores is the correct VSX-1018AH-K. This caused a slight delay when doing the price match. Just point out that FS also has the wrong model number and you're fine.

i tried to do the same thing today, but they said it was the wrong model #. (TXV-K vs AH-K) i think it totally depends on which sales rep you get and who catches on or not.

anyways.. if anyone has one and is planning on returning it, i'd be interested. gta only of course.

[zzz3]

For a 7.1 system...

2 X C-500 Fronts
4 X C-R100 Surrounds.
1 X C-C100 Center
1 10.3 Sub.
Shouldnt directional speakers be used for the rear right and left?

I just finished building an addition and ran cat 5 cabling through the place along with 12AWG speaker cable and coax. I was hoping for an easy solution to distribute the audio/video to each room - I think the Yamaha HTR-6190B would work since it's multi-room capable. That said, the Denon looks to be as well.

I was planning on running video from my modded xbox, put it into the receiver then distribute out from there.

Any suggestions as to which would be superior? I think I read on the avs forum that you can use the cat5 connection on the Yamaha to pull file directories from another comp - can anybody confirm? Also, it looks like external harddrives can't be connected via. the USB on the Yamaha unless somebody knows better.

thks in advance for the advice.
No usb or ethernet ports on the 6190/1800.

Since the Yamaha 6190/1800 doesn't pass btb and wtw, will this make a difference when passing a 1080p signal from my BD player to a Pioneer 1080p Kuro?

No, only signals from your pc can be btb or wtw, video is fine.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1010178

[jnmontario]

With the Denon, I believe that it uses 2 channels from the 7.1 to create the 2nd zone, effectively making it a 5.1 surround system with 2nd zone, whereas the Yamaha is a "true" multi-zone. 3 zones in fact that can be powered by the receiver itself, or fed to another receiver for "external" power.
I don't think that the Yamaha 6190B has a network connection, so you must be thinking of a different model. With those supported models, yes you can pull video and music from networked Windows boxes.
Also, there is no USB connection on the Yamaha that you're talking about either. The Pioneer 1018 does that was mentioned in this thread.
For a multi-room installation, the Yamaha is superior, IMO.

Thks mate, I must have stumbled on another YAM receiver model while reading up on the 6190B. The LAN capabilities would be key for me I believe.

[Miguel]

For a 7.1 system...

2 X C-500 Fronts
4 X C-R100 Surrounds.
1 X C-C100 Center
1 10.3 Sub.

Shouldnt directional speakers be used for the rear right and left?
These are the C-R100's:
http://www.hifi.nl/gfx/pd_energy_c-r100_090307.jpg

[Advil_Yum]

Thks mate, I must have stumbled on another YAM receiver model while reading up on the 6190B. The LAN capabilities would be key for me I believe.

I'm not too sure why because your Xbox would do that, wouldn't it? With my PS3 (also with the xbox 360), you can connect that to a Windows box (DNLA) and pull movies, MP3, etc. When that's fed to the receiver, that's all you need and then the receiver will feed it to the other zones. It does not push Video, however, just music.
It's a nice feature for the receiver to have, but not a necessity, with all of the network streaming media devices out there -- as long as you're feeding those streams to the receiver, you're golden. I guess the one benefit is, you then would only need to have the receiver on when you want to pull off media and browse through that interface instead of the Xbox/PS3, etc. Still not a deal breaker for me.

[appleb]

No, only signals from your pc can be btb or wtw, video is fine.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1010178

PS3 can send btb or wtw as well. I guess you could consider that a PC, but it's still something to be aware of.

[zzz3]

PS3 can send btb or wtw as well. I guess you could consider that a PC, but it's still something to be aware of.

I have rgb set to limited, but i never did consider if video games might be btb and wtw.

BTW does anyone know if the 989 is similar to the 2809ci, like how yamaha has two models which are the same 6190/1800?

[consumerPI]

I'm not the best guy on Home Audio, so maybe someone else can help answer your questions.

Found this review as well: By Suresh, Brampton

"An excellent receiver for the money. Include are 3 HDMI inputs compared to other Receivers that provide 2, Also has DTS HD Master Audio and Dolby True Digital for the full audio capability blue ray disc. Speakers can be configured to 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 has class A Amp with clean sound and ample power. Besides the above the major selling point to me is the USB port, which can be hooked up to an IPOD not for me directly no cradles needed or additional hardware, But also the USB port can play off cheap storage Flashpen drive containing MP3, wma or AC3 audio No need for a tone of CDs. Please note that models below this, do have a USB port that can only be used with an IPOD. Can not read flash drives MP3wma music and have NO DTS HD Master Audio and Dolby True Digital. "

So, I ended up keeping the following setup:

- Pioneer 1018 Receiver (mainly cause it can take a USB key to play from directly and it upconverts to 1080P).
- 2 x Energy C-500 Tower Speakers (they are stunning like Jessica Simpson).
- Infinity TSS-450 (only because I picked up the C-500s above. Had I not found those in stock at that price (under $300/pair), I would have kept the Energy Take Classics for a 5.1 setup). The infinity's actually sound very good especially with the Towers in the front. To me a perfect blend for a7.1 setup.
Total for a kick ass sounding setup is $898 + taxes.
http://www.bestbuy.ca/multimedia/products/pdp/10108703.jpg
http://www.futureshop.ca/multimedia/products/regular/10087380.gifhttp://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:8jeFGO2Bj_0UUM:http://www.audiovideoecia.com.br/produtos/g_CXS%2520INFINITY%2520TSS-450CHR.jpghttp://www.futureshop.ca/multimedia/products/regular/10087380.gif

Thanks for all the info and recommendations.
I was wonderong that whether you can mix and match with other brand or no. Since I have some credit at Visions but they don't carry energy brands. If so what should I be looking at ex: specifications.
Also is it a must you need have 2 or 4 bookshelf speakers and two tall for rear. Or you can have 4 tall, 1 center and sub. Does it matter or no.
Thanks

[SAS-1]

Anyone else notice that the Yamaha 6190B is $699 at Future Shop as a "regular" price now? I guess this could mean that they are just clearing out all their stock and won't be carrying it any more.

[gubica]

so if it goes on sale in the next 30 days... price protect it and get money back

[tomincanada]

So, I ended up keeping the following setup:

- Pioneer 1018 Receiver (mainly cause it can take a USB key to play from directly and it upconverts to 1080P).
- 2 x Energy C-500 Tower Speakers (they are stunning like Jessica Simpson).
- Infinity TSS-450 (only because I picked up the C-500s above. Had I not found those in stock at that price (under $300/pair), I would have kept the Energy Take Classics for a 5.1 setup). The infinity's actually sound very good especially with the Towers in the front. To me a perfect blend for a7.1 setup.
Total for a kick ass sounding setup is $898 + taxes.


Your system isn't well balanced... You have pretty powerful fronts combined with extremely weak surrounds (frequency response bottoms out at 150Hz).

Ultimately you're happy and that's all that matters but for others reading I'd recommend trying to match speakers (both brand name & power) in a 5.1/7.1 system for the best results.

[Cas77]

Your system isn't well balanced... You have pretty powerful fronts combined with extremely weak surrounds (frequency response bottoms out at 150Hz).

Ultimately you're happy and that's all that matters but for others reading I'd recommend trying to match speakers (both brand name & power) in a 5.1/7.1 system for the best results.

+1. Exactly what I thought when reading the post.

I'm sure it sounds great in stereo with the C-500's but in 5.1 or 7.1 your cutoff frequency would be too low.

[zzz3]

I'm not the best guy on Home Audio, so maybe someone else can help answer your questions.

Found this review as well: By Suresh, Brampton

"An excellent receiver for the money. Include are 3 HDMI inputs compared to other Receivers that provide 2, Also has DTS HD Master Audio and Dolby True Digital for the full audio capability blue ray disc. Speakers can be configured to 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 has class A Amp with clean sound and ample power. Besides the above the major selling point to me is the USB port, which can be hooked up to an IPOD not for me directly no cradles needed or additional hardware, But also the USB port can play off cheap storage Flashpen drive containing MP3, wma or AC3 audio No need for a tone of CDs. Please note that models below this, do have a USB port that can only be used with an IPOD. Can not read flash drives MP3wma music and have NO DTS HD Master Audio and Dolby True Digital. "

So, I ended up keeping the following setup:

- Pioneer 1018 Receiver (mainly cause it can take a USB key to play from directly and it upconverts to 1080P).
- 2 x Energy C-500 Tower Speakers (they are stunning like Jessica Simpson).
- Infinity TSS-450 (only because I picked up the C-500s above. Had I not found those in stock at that price (under $300/pair), I would have kept the Energy Take Classics for a 5.1 setup). The infinity's actually sound very good especially with the Towers in the front. To me a perfect blend for a7.1 setup.
Total for a kick ass sounding setup is $898 + taxes.
http://www.bestbuy.ca/multimedia/products/pdp/10108703.jpg
http://www.futureshop.ca/multimedia/products/regular/10087380.gifhttp://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:8jeFGO2Bj_0UUM:http://www.audiovideoecia.com.br/produtos/g_CXS%2520INFINITY%2520TSS-450CHR.jpghttp://www.futureshop.ca/multimedia/products/regular/10087380.gif

You should have grabbed another pair of towers as side surrounds and just found a centre channel (it does the dialogue and if your using the infinity its going to be overpowered by the towers). Most stuff is in 5.1 anyways, but if you really wanted you could have added another pair of c-500 as rears for 7.1.

If it was me i would have gotten:
4xc-500
Klipsch 12" sub-12 from bb sale
rc mini centre

[Miguel]

You should have grabbed another pair of towers as side surrounds and just found a centre channel (it does the dialogue and if your using the infinity its going to be overpowered by the towers). Most stuff is in 5.1 anyways, but if you really wanted you could have added another pair of c-500 as rears for 7.1.

If it was me i would have gotten:
4xc-500
Klipsch 12" sub-10 from bb sale
rc mini centre

That's almost what I run.

2 X C500 towers
4 X C200 sides/rear
Velodyne Subwoofer (DSP-12B)
...still looking for a decent centre... I think the mini is too small for me.

If someone is looking for a budget setup, buy these at $80 for 2:
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10112898&catid=

If they're anywhere near the C200's then they'll be monsters. Incomparable to take classic speakers.

add in this guy for $250:
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10108439&catid=
and just find a centre.

and wait for a deal on a center or get the mini.

[consumerPI]

Thanks for the suggestions - really appreciate the feedback. The Towers do seem to overpower the rear speakers - does anyone know if in a 5.1 setup I should connect the rear speakers to "Surround Rear R/L" or "Rear R/L"

Since space is an issue, what about running the 2 C-500s with the Energy Take Classics instead of the Infinity TSS-450? Would that fall within acceptable specs?

Oddly, BB sells the Pioneer 1018 Receiver packaged with the TSS-450 for $600 on their web site.

[tomincanada]

Thanks for the suggestions - really appreciate the feedback. The Towers do seem to overpower the rear speakers - does anyone know if in a 5.1 setup I should connect the rear speakers to "Surround Rear R/L" or "Rear R/L"


Are you sure that's how they are labelled? Typically they are called "Surround L/R" and "Surround Back L/R" in which case they would be connected to the "Surround L/R"

[zzz3]

Thanks for the suggestions - really appreciate the feedback. The Towers do seem to overpower the rear speakers - does anyone know if in a 5.1 setup I should connect the rear speakers to "Surround Rear R/L" or "Rear R/L"

Since space is an issue, what about running the 2 C-500s with the Energy Take Classics instead of the Infinity TSS-450? Would that fall within acceptable specs?

Oddly, BB sells the Pioneer 1018 Receiver packaged with the TSS-450 for $600 on their web site.

Surround for 5.1, and surround back/rear for 7.1

As for size i would go with the energy surrounds or bookshelves but they arent on sale, is there no way you could make room for 2 rear c-500s?

The velodyne 8" is good if you cant fit the klipsch 12'.
+1 for the for the c100 pair if you cant do towers.

[consumerPI]

Sorry, was going by memory, you're right "Surround L/R" for the 5.1 setup and Surround Back L/R for 71.

Are you sure that's how they are labelled? Typically they are called "Surround L/R" and "Surround Back L/R" in which case they would be connected to the "Surround L/R"

[consumerPI]

I'd love to get 2 more towers (C-500) in the rear but I'm pushing it with the 2 in the front already. Ideally I will wall mount the back two speakers or 2 small bookshelf or do they call those "Satellites"?

Why not the Energy Classic 5.1 set that includes the sub and speakers?

Surround for 5.1, and surround back/rear for 7.1

As for size i would go with the energy surrounds or bookshelves but they arent on sale, is there no way you could make room for 2 rear c-500s?

[NotMoneyGuy]

The velodyne 8" is good if you cant fit the klipsch 12'.


So, if the cost is the same $250, and if space is not an issue, the 12" Klipsch SUB-12 is a better choice? Thanks.

[NotMoneyGuy]

If it was me i would have gotten:
4xc-500
Klipsch 12" sub-10 from bb sale
rc mini centre
I think you meant the SUB-12 not -10, right? (The one for $249.99).

[Miguel]

Size isnt everything. Read reviews on the klipsch. For your needs I'll bet the Velodyne will suit your size/space much better.

Otherwise, sure... do the klipsch 12".

[zzz3]

So, if the cost is the same $250, and if space is not an issue, the 12" Klipsch SUB-12 is a better choice? Thanks.

I think you meant the SUB-12 not -10, right? (The one for $249.99).

If space is not an issue than the klipsch 12" sub-12 is a very good sub, otherwise the velodyne 8" is a good alternative if space is an issue. Remember to consider the whole room and not just the listening area when choosing a sub, i have gone through three subs because even though my listening area is only 12x10, i had to consider my whole basement which is finished, carpeted but open, and all of the sudden im looking at a sub that needs to fill almost 32x21 which is 3500+ cubic feet. So i went from an klipsch 10" rw10d reference sub to a velodyne dls4000r. Even though they are the same power the extra 2" helped significantly, however that still was not enough, so now i have a dls5000r. The sub can pressurize the room but its a budget 15" at best and dosent have the rms or quality which usually means $1000s more and frankly i made the mistake of not budgeting enough for a sub.

So depending on your room size can make the difference especially when the two subs might have very close rms (just check the frequency, however quality is another story!). Velodyne makes good subs but dls is their entry level stuff, if you really need to know DLS4000r>SUB12>RW10D>DLS3500r imo.

[tomincanada]

If space is not an issue than the klipsch 12" sub-12 is a very good sub, otherwise the velodyne 8" is a good alternative if space is an issue. Remember to consider the whole room and not just the listening area when choosing a sub, i have gone through three subs because even though my listening area is only 12x10, i had to consider my whole basement which is finished, carpeted but open, and all of the sudden im looking at a sub that needs to fill almost 32x21 which is 3500+ cubic feet. So i went from an klipsch 10" rw10d reference sub to a velodyne dls4000r. Even though they are the same power the extra 2" helped significantly, however that still was not enough, so now i have a dls5000r. The sub can pressurize the room but its a budget 15" at best and dosent have the rms or quality which usually means $1000s more and frankly i made the mistake of not budgeting enough for a sub.

Ever tried HSU/SVS subs out? I've had good success with HSU. I know the Velos are good subs as well I'm just curious as to your opinion on the others.

[zzz3]

Ever tried HSU/SVS subs out? I've had good success with HSU. I know the Velos are good subs as well I'm just curious as to your opinion on the others.

It seems these are the only canadian dealers for svs (see below), and the prices are ok at best, as for hsu i havent seen any canadian dealers let alone good prices (recommend any?). At $1000 i think you can pick up an klipsch rt10d from crutchfield when its on sale, so yeah i cant pull the trigger knowing deals like that are out there in the states.
http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/box-subwoofers-ultra-series-c-1_7.html

To be honest the selection at fs and bb is crap, they carry the rf-82/83 and reference line for klipsch but not the subs, rsw10d/rw12d/rt10d. Call around the gta and you probably wont get further than msrp at the smaller places. I would like a klipsch sub, listen to alot of music so hence the klipsch, and i wouldnt mind HSU or SVS but the prices arent reasonable, and thats if you can find them.

If you want real ht stuff i think the deals are mostly south of the border, take the rc62 on fs website which is the recommended cente for the klipsch rf 82s, it goes for $700 but if you call around in buffalo you can get $449-500 easy. Even worse is the rc64 which went for $1200 on there website while you could get it in the states for $899 easy.

Here is a good tool for those unsure what sub is recommended for their room size:
http://velodyne.com/wproduct/whproduct_new.aspx?sid=406u469u

[mtommy79]

SVS subs are very powerful, but also expensive. I also have the Velodyne DLS-4000r which serves me well. Paid around 550$. It goes very well with the Klipsch Reference line and the Yamaha 6190 drives them nice.

[tomincanada]

It seems these are the only canadian dealers for svs (see below), and the prices are ok at best, as for hsu i havent seen any canadian dealers let alone good prices (recommend any?).

I was under the impression Superteck, whom I bought my HSU from a few years ago was still selling HSU but I did some research and it looks like HSU doesn't have Canadian retailers anymore so we're SOL.

That sucks...

[NotMoneyGuy]

Thank you all, very informative.

[dgs]

If you are looking for speakers don't forget these guys - highly rated and a Canadian owned company as well

www.axiomaudio.com

[King James]

I received the Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K but it only has a French instruction manual. Any idea why?

[PrimeBane]

Since it seems the thread has been derailed a bit, a quick question for the speaker experts:

I currently run a Sony 720 (missed out on the Denon 889 deals :()with an Energy Take 5.1 speaker set (very similar to the current Energy Take Classic set available).

I'll like to add a couple of towers to the front to go 7.1. Will I be over powering things with a pair of Polk Audio Monitor 50s? And a Polk Audio CSI A4 Center Channel?

[CanadianTSi]

I received the Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K but it only has a French instruction manual. Any idea why?

The English manual is inside the clear plastic bag.

[mconway]

If you are looking for speakers don't forget these guys - highly rated and a Canadian owned company as well

www.axiomaudio.com

My speaker setup came from AV123. RS760's front, RS450's rear, ELT monitors side, RSC200 center and MFW-15 sub.

www.av123.com

I haven't heard the Axioms in person but have heard nothing but good things about their products. Seriously though, I can't imagine ever buying another set of speakers from B&M. There are so many great ID companies out there - AV123, Axiom, SVS, HSU, Swans, Elemental Designs, etc. offering a price/performance that simply can't be matched at retail.

[googoo]

Even the BASE model from SVS will rock your world, won't go as loud or low as the big boys, but for $650 out the door is supposed to be a great sub.

Brent

[zzz3]

My speaker setup came from AV123. RS760's front, RS450's rear, ELT monitors side, RSC200 center and MFW-15 sub.

www.av123.com

I haven't heard the Axioms in person but have heard nothing but good things about their products. Seriously though, I can't imagine ever buying another set of speakers from B&M. There are so many great ID companies out there - AV123, Axiom, SVS, HSU, Swans, Elemental Designs, etc. offering a price/performance that simply can't be matched at retail.

How do you like your 15? The price seems good and im assuming itll probably do a better job than my entry level velo 15.

[Miguel]

svs, elemental design and hsu make good subs but please PLEASE LISTEN to them before buying. I'd take a mid level velodyne over any of those base models any day of the week.

[mconway]

How do you like your 15? The price seems good and im assuming itll probably do a better job than my entry level velo 15.

Well that's sort of a funny question. I originally placed an order for a satin black MFW-15 but after seeing some pics of the palisander rosa satin changed my order as it would be a good match for my rosewood rockets. This finish in turn was discontinued due to production problems but AV123 decided to offer a rosewood version instead. To make a long story short, after a very long delay I finally received my rosewood sub only to have it semi destoyed by UPS (superficial but really bad nonetheless) necessitating a return. I did however hook it up long enough to run it through it's paces. I had been and am right now running a Monitor Audio RSW-12 which is a very capable sub in it's own right. The MFW-15 however is in another league entirely. It hits very hard and goes very low. Truly house shaking performance and sounds great with HT and music alike. Killer good looks and fit and finish as well, just like all AV123 products. My friend has a SVS PB-13 Ultra and I think the MFW-15, to my ears at least, is in the same class. I can't say enough about AV123's products and would unhesitatingly recommend them to anyone. It's too bad the dollar sucks atm as it was close to par when I placed my order. It was interesting to say the least to have the UPS driver show up at the house with a 700 lb (yes, 700 pound) pallet of speakers :) Have a look at craigsub's rankings at AVS Forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9164136#post9164136).


"Listening results: The MFW-15 amazed the panel by largely matching the PB13 Ultra in all musical areas with the exception of pipe organ. Bass is deep, tight and powerful, with no overhang at all. The cabinet work done on this subwoofer is absolultely stellar, especially in its price range. By stellar, we mean just how inert it is. The cabinet barely vibrates during the most powerful passages, and this helps the MFW-15 to get its excellent musical rating. It is, as an earlier graph shows, very linear in its response curve, all the way to 100 Hz. It is in the area of slam an linearity that allows this subwoofer to match more high priced units. The Steely Dan disc on this subwoofer is a bass head's dream, with a lot of the panel requesting to hear it again after the test. Stanley Clarke was also as crystal clear on the MFW-15 as with any subwoofer we have had."

[journalista271]

Well, it bugged me that some RFDers managed to PM FS on BB's $399 1018 deal -- and get the 10% for a $379 deal. I bought it Boxing Day, and FS guy would do the $399 but not the 10% -- said it was a door-crasher at BB.

So, BB still has the 1018 for $399 (to Jan 4, I think) so I went back to my FS store, told them this, and again asked for the 10%. Got it, no problem. Sales rep actually went to CS desk and cleared it in advance for me. So $20 back plus coupla bux in tax. Paid for new speaker wire at Home Depot.

This should be available to anyone at least until Jan. 4 when BB sale (I think) comes off.

Thanks to all for the tip on the 1018 and the PM.

[loonieryan]

I was under the impression Superteck, whom I bought my HSU from a few years ago was still selling HSU but I did some research and it looks like HSU doesn't have Canadian retailers anymore so we're SOL.

That sucks...

Ya unfortunately HSU decided to stop selling in Canada through re-sellers. They sell/ship direct to Canada now.

[loonieryan]

found 6190b at the Brick Vancouver for 688$, they had two left in stock

Ya, picked up a 6190 from The Brick here in Montreal for $649. They still had two left in stock at the Kirkland location.

[audit13]

SVS subs are very powerful, but also expensive. I also have the Velodyne DLS-4000r which serves me well. Paid around 550$. It goes very well with the Klipsch Reference line and the Yamaha 6190 drives them nice.

SVS has a 10" sub for $579 and customers in the GTA can pick it up from their Markham location. I have a very old Velodyne that cost me over $1200. I'm probably going to get the 12" svs for $779.

[NotMoneyGuy]

This should be available to anyone at least until Jan. 4 when BB sale (I think) comes off.

You seem to be right about the Jan. 4 date as the end of the sale, but it seems that BB is sold out online:

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10108703&catid=20313

The Scarborough Town Centre BB store location did not have any 1018's around noon today, they only had a single 9130 (in box, not display).

[a4rules]

All the receivers mentioned in this thread are pretty good and with great prices. I thought long and hard and I have purchased the Onkyo 706 from Visions for $678 online with $8.45 epresss shipping (standard shipping was only 0.44 less, can't believe it). The main consideration is that it is the only one in this group of receivers mentioned in this thread that is THX certified (I like to see the logo :lol: and I know that some of you don't care for it) and some very positive expert reviews on the Onkyo 706 thus far. Since I already own a Yamaha RXV-1800 and a Denon AVR-988 in different parts of my home, I would like to give Onkyo a try this time.

You can't go wrong with any of the receivers mentioned like I said, it may just come down to availability, cosmetics, power and personal brand preference.

[chileung]

I picked up the pioneer 1018 from bestbuy but thinking of returning it. Probably going to wait for the denon to be back in stock.

[kamascottra]

i got my pioneer 1018 delivered yesterday, hooked it up last night after the 'festivities' and by 5am i was so frustrated i gave up.

i had intended to use primarily the HDMI inputs. and then use a splitter to send the HDMI out to the one HDMI input i have on each of my HDTV and projector. the splitter didn't work, which was half expected, but not the biggest problem.

i can not for the life of me get the HDMI output on my HTPC(a hewlett packard MCE) to work with the 1018. i can not change the resolution, and the resolution it's stuck on is not compatible with my TV(not that'd i'd want the oddball resolution it's on anyway)

for the time being, i've pretty much given up on the HDMI inputs(which REALLY sucks) and i'm just using the component video inputs, unfortunately limiting me to only 3 HD sources of the 5 i own.

the other thing i noticed is that no matter what i set the upscaler to(auto, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p) my TV displays '480i' as the input resolution. since i have no way of verifying the scaler works(can't see a difference) i can only assume it's not.

well, looks like i'm gonna spend the rest of my vacation time searching for an answer to this issues. i'd really, really, REALLY like to get the HDMI output from the computer working through the receiver. if i can use the HDMI inputs i can eliminate a LOT of wiring behind my rack.

other than that, i haven't had a chance to use the receiver too much. seems that buying this one has just confirmed the fact that my last receiver was a solid unit. the only this it was missing is the HD video switching(a HUGE omission to me), but i haven't even gone through the auto setup or anything so time will tell.

[HockeyFan]

I'm still deciding on whether or not I should keep my Yamaha 6190B for $699 or get the Denon 989 or go with Onkyo. I will have to research this alot today.

[letigre98]

I recently bought the Pioneer 1018 and I'm very happy with it. For $400, it's a great starter receiver and with DTS-MA and TRUEHD audio decoding, it's a very good deal.

For those that are buying this system to upconvert to 1080p, I would consider investing more money in a better DVD/Blu Ray/HD DVD player to be doing your upconverting. The Faroudja DCDi chip onboard shows a much softer image than the Qdeo chip on my LG Bh200 Bluray/HDDVD player. I've elected to turn off the upconversion feature and allow my video to pass through.

If people are looking for really sharp, clear 1080p video, look for an Oppo DVD player, or invest in a Blu Ray or Hd DVD player with a Reon or Qdeo chip for top performance. Do a little research and you'll see the proof.

[kamascottra]

i've managed to finally get the 1018 to work with my HTPC

it's not exactly how i planned though, due to the splitter not working though, might have to pick up a powered splitter to solve that problem.

as for the upconversion, i don't notice any difference with it on or off. either it's not working at all, it's equal to that of my HDTV, or i simply don't have the eye to notice the difference.

in either regards, sending a REAL 1080p or even 720p signal looks worlds better than an upconverted 480i or 480p signal.

can't say i've EVER seen a standard def signal upconverted that really impressed me though. i'm still of the opinion that simply adding lines doesn't really improve the picture quality

[aximrocks]

I returned the 1018 cause it can't handle full HD @ 60Hz. Every 15 seconds my TV blackout for few seconds when connected to a PC via the hdmi. it outputs at a odd resolution 1888x1073@60Hz. it can do full HD at 50Hz, but the text looks blurry. It was a great sounding receiver though.

[kamascottra]

i had to hook my 1018 up as a secondary monitor for it to work for me. even when it was the only thing hooked up, it came up with some 'generic display' for the primary monitor, and the 1018 as the secondary.

i actually run all my stuff at 29hz cause it's way clearer for reading text and i've never found 'motion blur' to be an issue personally.

sucks how many 'little issues' you experience with all this digital crap. HDCP is nothing but issues. i'm always amazed how i can take a component cable and split it, loop it, unplug it, anything, and it's always rock solid video. HDMI takes 5-10seconds to display even when it's working 100%. oh well, the price you pay for simpler connections i guess.

[zzz3]

I'm still deciding on whether or not I should keep my Yamaha 6190B for $699 or get the Denon 989 or go with Onkyo. I will have to research this alot today.

What speakers do you have?

Read:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1057392&page=48
I would unanimously conclude the denon 989 is better if it were not for the volume issue.

[moguy]

the other thing i noticed is that no matter what i set the upscaler to(auto, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p) my TV displays '480i' as the input resolution. since i have no way of verifying the scaler works(can't see a difference) i can only assume it's not.


You probably wouldn't see a difference either way. Since the projector/tv will scale the image to it's native resolution regardless. So no matter where the scaling happens, your final image is upscaled (if the source was less than the display).

Most upscaling is over rated anyways, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Upscaling from your HTPC with the proper filters is pretty CPU intensive, but it is probably the only way you'd see a signifigant improvement.

[kamascottra]

You probably wouldn't see a difference either way. Since the projector/tv will scale the image to it's native resolution regardless. So no matter where the scaling happens, your final image is upscaled (if the source was less than the display).

Most upscaling is over rated anyways, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Upscaling from your HTPC with the proper filters is pretty CPU intensive, but it is probably the only way you'd see a signifigant improvement.

yeah that's what i figured. i never understood the hype with upconverting dvd players. never really noticed a difference personally.


anyway, i've had a little more seat time with this now. replaced my ancient sony str930db with the pioneer 1018. first thing i noticed, the pioneer was lighter, or at least seemed lighter. the sony felt more 'balanced' so the light side was still pretty hefty. anyway, after finally hooking everything up, setting the inputs, and running through the mcaac setup i'm pretty pleased.
in no way whatsoever did this upgrade rock my world, but i feel i got a slight improvement in sound, and most importantly the ability to have all 5 of my HD sources hooked up at the same time to both my projector and HDTV so that my harmony remote can do it's thing.
i watched a couple movies, and it seems to be a little crisper than my old receiver. like in a scary movie, the sudden 'jumpy' loud scenes just seemed that much jumpier. there's excellent imaging for surround sound with my 5.1 set up as well. the old receiver kinda muddled the imaging slightly, but this one, even sitting well outside the 'sweet spot' surround sounds that were supposed to be pinpoint accurate sounded pinpoint accurate.

so end of the day, i didn't find anything particularly stellar, but it did what i needed it to, and i gave up nothing from my old receiver. about the same power, a little bit clearer, improved calibration, and vastly improved connections.

[WolfDV]

I returned the 1018 cause it can't handle full HD @ 60Hz. Every 15 seconds my TV blackout for few seconds when connected to a PC via the hdmi. it outputs at a odd resolution 1888x1073@60Hz. it can do full HD at 50Hz, but the text looks blurry. It was a great sounding receiver though.

wierd
my 1018 works fine will any of the hdmi ports at the res.

pc output (1080p60) -> pio 1018 -> pio 6020 plasma (1080p60) ... no problems at all, signal still as pure as it should be. (1080p24 also works just fine)

[loonieryan]

If anyone can still find the Yamaha HTR-6190 at a local FutureShop and wants the best deal on it, then let me know. I got it for $644 and can scan my receipt if you need it for price matching purposes.

[Star*]

If anyone can still find the Yamaha HTR-6190 at a local FutureShop and wants the best deal on it, then let me know. I got it for $644 and can scan my receipt if you need it for price matching purposes.

Yes, please. I need it but I don't think I can find any at FS but I can use it at Brick.

PMed you.

[Alex2004]

Does anyone know if www.visions.ca can be price matched at futureshop in ontario?

[loonieryan]

Yes, please. I need it but I don't think I can find any at FS but I can use it at Brick.

PMed you.

Got your PM. I'll scan the receipt tomorrow and post it here.

[mtommy79]

Got your PM. I'll scan the receipt tomorrow and post it here.

I could help out. Got it for 649.99$ on Boxing Day from FS.
http://img390.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc09960ev9.jpg

[Drew_W]

I could help out. Got it for 649.99$ on Boxing Day from FS.
http://img390.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc09960ev9.jpg

Yeah, but not really helpful since that's part of a package.

[Star*]

Come on loonieryan, waiting for your receipt :)
Thinking to pick one today at The Brick.

[mtommy79]

Yeah, but not really helpful since that's part of a package.

If you track my posts in this thread, they marked it as a package with the Rogers HDPVR which was on sale for 299$ also. I really don't understand how it could be a package, but oh well, at least i saved 50$.
Sorry i couldn't help.

[jetway1212]

You probably wouldn't see a difference either way. Since the projector/tv will scale the image to it's native resolution regardless. So no matter where the scaling happens, your final image is upscaled (if the source was less than the display).

Most upscaling is over rated anyways, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Upscaling from your HTPC with the proper filters is pretty CPU intensive, but it is probably the only way you'd see a signifigant improvement.

I dont believe noone catch this. This is so wrong.

[whiteGSR]

You should have grabbed another pair of towers as side surrounds and just found a centre channel (it does the dialogue and if your using the infinity its going to be overpowered by the towers). Most stuff is in 5.1 anyways, but if you really wanted you could have added another pair of c-500 as rears for 7.1.

If it was me i would have gotten:
4xc-500
Klipsch 12" sub-12 from bb sale
rc mini centre

how do you find the mini with the c-500's? i have the rc-mini and i just bought a pair of c-500 for the fronts. curerntly waiting for shipment.

for the rears, i'll be using the yamaha NS125FB which i was for the fronts. http://www.yamaha.ca/av/speakers/Add_ons/closeup/NS125FPB_front.jsp

i bought a set of denon 5.1 speakers back 6 years ago to go w/ my 6.1 denon receiver and have been slowly upgrading the speakers piece by piece. now all i'm using is the original center as the rear center (6.1) and still using the original 8" sub. i live in an apartment so i don't need a better sub...yet

[zzz3]

how do you find the mini with the c-500's? i have the rc-mini and i just bought a pair of c-500 for the fronts. curerntly waiting for shipment.

for the rears, i'll be using the yamaha NS125FB which i was for the fronts. http://www.yamaha.ca/av/speakers/Add_ons/closeup/NS125FPB_front.jsp

i bought a set of denon 5.1 speakers back 6 years ago to go w/ my 6.1 denon receiver and have been slowly upgrading the speakers piece by piece. now all i'm using is the original center as the rear center (6.1) and still using the original 8" sub. i live in an apartment so i don't need a better sub...yet

I dont have c500s or rc minis, honestly i was making a suggestion to another rfdr, consumerpi i believe, that his system did not match, but if your happy with the way it sounds by all means go for it.

[kamascottra]

I dont believe noone catch this. This is so wrong.

how is this wrong?
aside from some VERY limited exceptions, upscaling is upscaling. so whether the TV/Display, receiver, or dvd player perform the upscaling the differences are likely quite small, as they would all have similar quality upscalers.

i also would completely agree that there is a night and day difference between an upscaled image and a 'real' HD image, which to me indicates that upscaling isn't all it's cracked up to be. an improvement yes, a replacement for HD no.

[kmchow]

The Pioneer 1018 has disppeared from the BB website so maybe it won't get any cheaper.

[tomincanada]

how is this wrong?
aside from some VERY limited exceptions, upscaling is upscaling. so whether the TV/Display, receiver, or dvd player perform the upscaling the differences are likely quite small, as they would all have similar quality upscalers.


There are some very expensive upscalers.. just as the silicon optix realta.. that people buy 3500 dvd players just to get. There are also some TV's that basically act as line doublers when dealing with a 480i signal. In between them is a whole slew of products with various degrees of quality.

It's not as straightforward as you think.

[moguy]

I dont believe noone catch this. This is so wrong.

What part exactly is so wrong?

I'm projecting 1080p onto a 120" screen in a dedicated theater room. Comparing all the upscalers from my Benq W10000, xbox 360, HD DVD Player, Sony Blu Ray Player, HTPC, Samsung 1080p upsampling DVD player, and my Pioneer 1018, I'd be hard pressed to see a difference between any of them.

If I had to give an edge to anything, it would be the Sony BD350. Still the difference is marginal, and upscaled material isn't anywhere near the quality of true HD.

[loonieryan]

Come on loonieryan, waiting for your receipt :)
Thinking to pick one today at The Brick.

Sorry, I'm re-modeling my home theater room in the basement and haven't had time to pull out the ol' scanner yet... hopefully tomorrow.

[kamascottra]

There are some very expensive upscalers.. just as the silicon optix realta.. that people buy 3500 dvd players just to get. There are also some TV's that basically act as line doublers when dealing with a 480i signal. In between them is a whole slew of products with various degrees of quality.

It's not as straightforward as you think.

again, ignoring the VERY FEW exceptions, i'd have to go with results over specs. certainly there is a bunch of differences on paper, but when viewed on screen, nothing that you would find in a 'typical' product is going to make much noticeable difference.

if anything i would leave this at a difference of opinion, i KNOW that i can't tell the difference between any scaler i've personally used(dvd players, tv, projector, pioneer 1018). maybe you can, i don't think that makes either one of us wrong though. it's simply my opinion that upscaling is over-rated, and in most cases completely redundant(you have a good scaler in the tv, why pay extra for an equally good scalar in a dvd player?)

if anything, i'd say it's more about making sure you don't have a poor scalar that can add artifacts. imo, a good scalar is one that you don't even know is doing anything. if you want to spend 3grand on a dvd player to 'fake' HD instead 300 on a BD player to get 'real' HD that's entirely up to you, just don't expect me to understand why.

[kamascottra]

Still the difference is marginal, and upscaled material isn't anywhere near the quality of true HD.

this has been my experience as well.
no problems picking out HD sources from upscaled SD sources. but picking out which component has the 'best' scaler is impossible for me to do by eye.

[tomincanada]

again, ignoring the VERY FEW exceptions, i'd have to go with results over specs. certainly there is a bunch of differences on paper, but when viewed on screen, nothing that you would find in a 'typical' product is going to make much noticeable difference.

I would agree that it doesn't make much of a difference to most people.. yourself and myself included but it's very important to some and I can at least see the difference between good (such as toshiba HD-DVD players) and not so good upscalers (such as the cheap dvd players I see at walmart)...



if anything, i'd say it's more about making sure you don't have a poor scalar that can add artifacts. imo, a good scalar is one that you don't even know is doing anything. if you want to spend 3grand on a dvd player to 'fake' HD instead 300 on a BD player to get 'real' HD that's entirely up to you, just don't expect me to understand why.

Just point me in the direction of where I can find Star Wars and Indiana Jones on Blu-Ray and I'll never watch them on upscaled DVD again.

Nobody prefers fake HD over Blu-Ray but with only a small percentage of movies on HD media we don't have a choice for most movies right now.

[barbotte]

well i pick up the 1018 and so far i am pretty happy with it ...i did not pick it up for the upscale but for the usb conection and the price ...399 cannot beat that ... cheer

[zoolander]

Come on loonieryan, waiting for your receipt :)
Thinking to pick one today at The Brick.

From another thread:
"You know The Brick doesn't allow return or exchange as soon as you've paid right?" :lol:

Tip, pricematch at BB/FS or another store with no hassle customer service.

[Star*]

From another thread:
"You know The Brick doesn't allow return or exchange as soon as you've paid right?" :lol:

Tip, pricematch at BB/FS or another store with no hassle customer service.

Thanks for the info. But I can't find any at BB or FS.

[zoolander]

Thanks for the info. But I can't find any at BB or FS.

If you can't find it at any other retailer, treat the transaction at the Brick like a no return/exchange item, even though in their policy, you can go back to the store. It's just major hassles and many RFDers will attest to that with their rants.
I am assuming you have already researched the product and are 100% you want it, then, thoroughly inspect and test as much as you can in the store. Purchase with your credit card that offers an extra year warranty.
Good luck :)

[omagedon]

Visions seem to be selling the VSX918VK for 298..

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10100405&catid=

Is it a good deal?

Any comments about this receiver? Will be my first one.

[Star*]

If you can't find it at any other retailer, treat the transaction at the Brick like a no return/exchange item, even though in their policy, you can go back to the store. It's just major hassles and many RFDers will attest to that with their rants.
I am assuming you have already researched the product and are 100% you want it, then, thoroughly inspect and test as much as you can in the store. Purchase with your credit card that offers an extra year warranty.
Good luck :)

Thanks again man!

[letigre98]

how is this wrong?
aside from some VERY limited exceptions, upscaling is upscaling. so whether the TV/Display, receiver, or dvd player perform the upscaling the differences are likely quite small, as they would all have similar quality upscalers.

i also would completely agree that there is a night and day difference between an upscaled image and a 'real' HD image, which to me indicates that upscaling isn't all it's cracked up to be. an improvement yes, a replacement for HD no.

All the entry-level blu ray players have poor upconverting capabilities. Very few have the REON, Qdeo, Realta, or Achor Bay chips unless you shop carefully and spend a bit more money. The quality of the upconversion IS quite noticeable if you have a good upconverter. If you've never seen one of these better blu ray or dvd players, you owe it to yourself to see one in action. Just take a look on eBay to see how much the old Toshiba XA2 HD DVD player goes for because it has the REON chip in it. They DO make a difference in quality.

[blainehamilton]

Same thing with the older samsung 1200 and 5000 players. Slow and buggy for Blu Ray playback, but upconversion is a treat.

[kamascottra]

I would agree that it doesn't make much of a difference to most people.. yourself and myself included but it's very important to some and I can at least see the difference between good (such as toshiba HD-DVD players) and not so good upscalers (such as the cheap dvd players I see at walmart)...




Just point me in the direction of where I can find Star Wars and Indiana Jones on Blu-Ray and I'll never watch them on upscaled DVD again.

Nobody prefers fake HD over Blu-Ray but with only a small percentage of movies on HD media we don't have a choice for most movies right now.

fair enough!

hehe, i have a copy of the new indy jones in 1080p, maybe there's hope yet.

that's a valid point, one that i never thought of since nearly every movie i'd want in HD is available in HD. i haven't run into that situation of trying to find something doesn't exist yet, so i forgot that it could happen, haha.

i honestly never even thought about not being able to find movies in HD, everything i've wanted i've found so far, so it just never occurred to me, haha.

[kamascottra]

All the entry-level blu ray players have poor upconverting capabilities. Very few have the REON, Qdeo, Realta, or Achor Bay chips unless you shop carefully and spend a bit more money. The quality of the upconversion IS quite noticeable if you have a good upconverter. If you've never seen one of these better blu ray or dvd players, you owe it to yourself to see one in action. Just take a look on eBay to see how much the old Toshiba XA2 HD DVD player goes for because it has the REON chip in it. They DO make a difference in quality.

i have a very capable DVD player and a 120" screen to view on. noticeable maybe, important, no. again, personal opinion though. i feel like i'm splitting hairs when comparing the upconverter in my dvd player to the one in my tv. but a blind man could tell the difference when i fire up some HD material.

dvd-good enough
upconverted dvd-slightly better
HD-different ball park

that's the way i see it anyway. no question it's better, but it's not HD and it never will be, it's merely 'the next best thing' and in my OPINION it's not all that close to HD, not even that close to 720p. on a small screen it might look impressive, but to me dvd's still look good on anything under 40"

[kamascottra]

Visions seem to be selling the VSX918VK for 298..

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10100405&catid=

Is it a good deal?

Any comments about this receiver? Will be my first one.

that seems to be the going 'sale price' for that receiver these days.

personally, i would leave it.
you miss out on the HD audio codecs, and video processing.

in other words, it's already an outdated receiver, so if you plan to build around it, it's not the strongest starting point.
however, if you just want something simple, and have no plans for a 7.1 set up, it's not a bad receiver by any means. it's just that you get a HUGE step up going to the 1018

[tomincanada]

that's the way i see it anyway. no question it's better, but it's not HD and it never will be, it's merely 'the next best thing' and in my OPINION it's not all that close to HD, not even that close to 720p. on a small screen it might look impressive, but to me dvd's still look good on anything under 40"

Yeah.. you're thinking in a comparison to blu-ray mode and the best upscaled DVD will never look near as good as a blu-ray.. not to mention the lossy sound of DVDs. I don't think anyone would argue that a blu-ray is far better than the best upscaled dvd.

However, most of us are thinking of the best way to display our existing DVDs.. many of which are not on Blu-Ray and some might never be...

[letigre98]

Yeah.. you're thinking in a comparison to blu-ray mode and the best upscaled DVD will never look near as good as a blu-ray.. not to mention the lossy sound of DVDs. I don't think anyone would argue that a blu-ray is far better than the best upscaled dvd.

However, most of us are thinking of the best way to display our existing DVDs.. many of which are not on Blu-Ray and some might never be...

I agree completely with you, Tom. Upconversion is not meant to make a DVD look equal to HD but at least BETTER than it's existing quality. If anyone wants to really take their DVDs more seriously, with fewer 'jaggies' and better colours and resolution, buy an OPPO DVD player as they have won numerous awards for being the best upconverting players for DVDs. Or, research on AVS Forums the things I've mentioned before: the Blu Ray/HD DVD players with better upconverting chips like the REON, Qdeo, Realta, or Anchor Bay. They work better than you think.

[rahzel]

wierd
my 1018 works fine will any of the hdmi ports at the res.

pc output (1080p60) -> pio 1018 -> pio 6020 plasma (1080p60) ... no problems at all, signal still as pure as it should be. (1080p24 also works just fine)
Same, I have no problems whatsoever with my 1018.

Regarding which AVR is best, it really depends on preference. But seeing how the 1018 is the cheapest, though, I definitely recommend at least trying it.

[kamascottra]

Yeah.. you're thinking in a comparison to blu-ray mode and the best upscaled DVD will never look near as good as a blu-ray.. not to mention the lossy sound of DVDs. I don't think anyone would argue that a blu-ray is far better than the best upscaled dvd.

However, most of us are thinking of the best way to display our existing DVDs.. many of which are not on Blu-Ray and some might never be...

sounds good to me, exactly the way i am thinking too!

must be the friends i have, cause that's what they seem to think about upconversion. why spend money on bluray to get 1080p, when i can just spend 150bux on a upconverting DVD player and get 1080p with all my old movies i already own. and then they'll hook them up via s-video to their 27inch tube television, haha. i guess you could say i'm slightly bitter/frustrated on the subject due to that.

[tomincanada]

must be the friends i have, cause that's what they seem to think about upconversion. why spend money on bluray to get 1080p, when i can just spend 150bux on a upconverting DVD player and get 1080p with all my old movies i already own. and then they'll hook them up via s-video to their 27inch tube television, haha. i guess you could say i'm slightly bitter/frustrated on the subject due to that.

For the record I hate the upconverting trend.

I think the good upconverters are a good thing, mind you, but having a cheap one in a player just so they can print 1080p on it is false advertising if you ask me and only serves to confuse the public and put Blu-Ray in jeopardy.

[jetway1212]

What part exactly is so wrong?

I'm projecting 1080p onto a 120" screen in a dedicated theater room. Comparing all the upscalers from my Benq W10000, xbox 360, HD DVD Player, Sony Blu Ray Player, HTPC, Samsung 1080p upsampling DVD player, and my Pioneer 1018, I'd be hard pressed to see a difference between any of them.

If I had to give an edge to anything, it would be the Sony BD350. Still the difference is marginal, and upscaled material isn't anywhere near the quality of true HD.

I dont want to go off topics. But what you were saying is if the source resolution is less than the display capability then display will upscale automatically. That is wrong. What you're seeing is not what ppl prefer as upscaling. You're seeing 10 pixel joined as 1.

If you dont get it then do more research and make a thread. I will gladly discuss further with you.

[jetway1212]

how is this wrong?
aside from some VERY limited exceptions, upscaling is upscaling. so whether the TV/Display, receiver, or dvd player perform the upscaling the differences are likely quite small, as they would all have similar quality upscalers.

i also would completely agree that there is a night and day difference between an upscaled image and a 'real' HD image, which to me indicates that upscaling isn't all it's cracked up to be. an improvement yes, a replacement for HD no.

I'm not comparing upscalers performance. I'm not saying one is better than another. I'm pointing out the technical error i mentioned just about this post.

[jetway1212]

I agree completely with you, Tom. Upconversion is not meant to make a DVD look equal to HD but at least BETTER than it's existing quality. If anyone wants to really take their DVDs more seriously, with fewer 'jaggies' and better colours and resolution, buy an OPPO DVD player as they have won numerous awards for being the best upconverting players for DVDs. Or, research on AVS Forums the things I've mentioned before: the Blu Ray/HD DVD players with better upconverting chips like the REON, Qdeo, Realta, or Anchor Bay. They work better than you think.

That is true. I cant believe ppl start to argue that upscalers does not work. They dont even have an idea of what upscaling means.

Displaying a SD picture on a HD display IS NOT upscaling.

[jetway1212]

sounds good to me, exactly the way i am thinking too!

must be the friends i have, cause that's what they seem to think about upconversion. why spend money on bluray to get 1080p, when i can just spend 150bux on a upconverting DVD player and get 1080p with all my old movies i already own. and then they'll hook them up via s-video to their 27inch tube television, haha. i guess you could say i'm slightly bitter/frustrated on the subject due to that.

Again, one advise for you..... stop hanging out with idiots. You dont need that many friends.

[moguy]

No one is saying upscalers don't work, just that most (and I emphasise NOT ALL, but MOST) will produce similair results. Improved picture quality but nothing close to true HD.

Anyone who thinks that an upscaled DVD is even remotely comparable to a true HD source has never actually compared the two on a decent television, or is blind.

I suggest people just go and see for themselves and then form their own opinions, as that is what really matters.

Cheers.

[jetway1212]

No one is saying upscalers don't work, just that most (and I emphasise NOT ALL, but MOST) will produce similair results. Improved picture quality but nothing close to true HD.

Anyone who thinks that an upscaled DVD is even remotely comparable to a true HD source has never actually compared the two on a decent television, or is blind.

I suggest people just go and see for themselves and then form their own opinions, as that is what really matters.

Cheers.

Yeah i agree with everything you just said. But thats not what you said previously about upscaling. The bold statement is so wrong.
You probably wouldn't see a difference either way. Since the projector/tv will scale the image to it's native resolution regardless. So no matter where the scaling happens, your final image is upscaled (if the source was less than the display).

Most upscaling is over rated anyways, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Upscaling from your HTPC with the proper filters is pretty CPU intensive, but it is probably the only way you'd see a signifigant improvement.

Moreoever, i dont see the point of what you just said. Only idiots think upscalers make the original source to be true HD (hence there is the word "true"). But ppl who think upscalers are worthless are also idiots.

[moguy]

Wow, very classy.

I never said upsamplers were worthless. I did say they are mostly overated.

I really don't think that RFD is the kind of place for insults. So I won't stoop to that level. I'm done posting in this thread, and I apologize for contributing to it steering off topic.

Have a nice day.

[tomincanada]

Again, one advise for you..... stop hanging out with idiots. You dont need that many friends.

Calling people idiots is a tad unnecessary, IMO.

[kamascottra]

I'm not comparing upscalers performance. I'm not saying one is better than another. I'm pointing out the technical error i mentioned just about this post.

gotcha, misunderstood. my tv DOES upscale the image, and i assumed that was what he was talking about as well.
that's why i felt having an upscaling dvd player with similar upscale quality was a waste. it looks identical to a 'standard' dvd player on my tv.
there's more to life than pixels, i wish the hype wasn't so overplayed. maybe 2% (this is me pulling a number out of my ass for emphasis not fact) of upscalers are actually worth bragging about. the rest just make SD sources look watchable on HD displays.

[Star*]

I just got a 1018 from a RDFer :0