Financial post calls some RFDers "sociopaths"

[Bazooka Joe]

http://www.financialpost.com/money/story.html?id=1071205

I always figured this, glad to know I'm not alone.

zoro69 found the article and posted it in the MWW $10 off card thread, I thought it would deserve it's own.

[Kommander_KornFlakes]

-
Why are we psycopaths?

[Hunter316]

I don't think that following an advertisement put out by a company word for word means that someone is a sociopath but I do think that those on here that try to get out of deals they agree to because they think that the terms and rules apply to the retailer but not themselves might qualify.

[setell]

Funny how I couldn't get into the Zellers game as I got rejected :( and than didn't find much stuff to buy at MWWH. Most of the good cheap stuff weren't available at MWWH. But I guess I am a sociopath since I take advantage of other things!!! It should teach retailers to be smarter, hire smarter marketing people then!

[sweeper]

That reminds me. I need another 10 cases of shoe polish. :lol:

[Justin]

:lol:

On their tribal message boards, bold bargain-hunters unbothered by a sense of shame swap tales of cashiers coldly scammed and stores raided bare.


They bought 18 at a time. Some guy dragged his loot out in a garbage bag. An entrepreneur stripped one store of 82 copies of Gears of War 2.

[jstaneon]

hahahhaha nice

*in before someone pulls the race card

[Bazooka Joe]

I don't think that following an advertisement put out by a company word for word means that someone is a sociopath but I do think that those on here that try to get out of deals they agree to because they think that the terms and rules apply to the retailer but not themselves might qualify.

I've seen people PM price errors, photoshop ads, coupons and receipts, intentionally mis-represent products (via incorrect picture or serial # in an ad and PM), "bundle" things that shouldn't be bundled, abuse return policies (including asking for stores that don't require receipts), return items from one store at a lesser price to another for profit, place incorrect items in boxes and return them, threaten legal action for price errors... the list goes on.

If you even suggest that this isn't normal behaviour you get jumped on. It's nice to see someone call it like it is.

[Peckerwood]

It is true...I AM NUCKING FUTZ

:eek:

[setell]

-
Why are we psycopaths?

One word, big hoarders!! The 82 video games made me sick reading it on rfd. I stopped reading after that. I mean if I got the deal max I'll probably buy would be like 4 but god 82 is just sickening!!

[corrupt123]

Well, some of us are normal. (http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=672293)

[GangStarr]

hahahhaha nice

*in before someone pulls the race card

*in before jstaneon pulls out his business card

[jstaneon]

*in before jstaneon pulls out his business card

:rolleyes:

[YUP123]

wth is this? Kevin Baker seems to think we are some kind of pety thieves...

"watch them closely around the dogs and the good cutlery."

Nothing we do here is illegal. Some users have VERY "creative" ways of maximizing the benefits of deals at stores and really what's wrong with that? Espcially in these tough times! To me it's on the retailers to be more careful on how they word/promote their specials, why wouldn't we capitalize on the holes in their promotions? Kevin... you mad? :D

[jstaneon]

wth is this? Kevin Baker seems to think we are some kind of pety thieves...

"watch them closely around the dogs and the good cutlery."

Nothing we do here is illegal. Some users have VERY "creative" ways of maximizing the benefits of deals at stores and really what's wrong with that? Espcially in these tough times! To me it's on the retailers to be more careful on how they word/promote their specials, why wouldn't we capitalize on the holes in their promotions? Kevin... you mad? :D

hahaha. Someone send him the link to this thread. Maybe we can get him to post on here? :cheesygri

Then I can give him my business card :rolleyes:

[UrbanPoet]

wth is this? Kevin Baker seems to think we are some kind of pety thieves...

"watch them closely around the dogs and the good cutlery."

Nothing we do here is illegal. Some users have VERY "creative" ways of maximizing the benefits of deals at stores and really what's wrong with that? Espcially in these tough times! To me it's on the retailers to be more careful on how they word/promote their specials, why wouldn't we capitalize on the holes in their promotions? Kevin... you mad? :D

Its still very shady.

[belfour]

RFD will probably get more members now.. :lol:

[angel_wing0]

i thought redflagdeals was mentioned in the article :p

I want my 2 minutes back :D

[belfour]

i thought redflagdeals was mentioned in the article :p

I want my 2 minutes back :D

It does...

Heroes on the sociopathic networking sites redflagdeals.com and ************.catold of using 37 coupons in one store

[AMDr]

One word, big hoarders!! The 82 video games made me sick reading it on rfd. I stopped reading after that. I mean if I got the deal max I'll probably buy would be like 4 but god 82 is just sickening!!

Actually, it's two words... ;)

[Chr1s]

Kevin Baker didn't have any new ideas for a story, or didn't have the hutzbah to use the coupon/ad himself this holiday season. He sounds quite bitter to me in fact.

Mr. Baker should have along look around him at the grocery store checkout line, you see people stocking up on pasta, rice, flour, and sugar when there are great sales, *gasp* even ignoring the 2/limit postings on some items.

Isn't that what we as informed shoppers do; buy as low as we can. Isn't that part daily life for those 'sociopaths' down on Bay Street, Wall Street and the CEOs of big business. Their bread and butter if you will?

Happy Capitalism, and Ho Ho Ho!

[selpats]

Athlon64 X2 6000+: :Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H: :4GB Corsair XMS2 PC6400: :Seagate 200GB: :Radeon HD3650 512MB: :Cambridge Soundworks 2.1: :LG GDR8164B: :LG GSA-H10A: :Coolermaster Elite 340: :Coolermaster 460W PSU: :LG L1951S: :WinXP SP3: :Rogers HSE

AMDr - Why are you listing this in your signature? Are you selling your computer (and internet connection?)???

I mean, why else would someone list this?

[billdozer]

AMDr - Why are you listing this in your signature? Are you selling your computer (and internet connection?)???

I mean, why else would someone list this?

:lol:
Because he's that much better than you :lol:

[Barayolayosa]

If I were the owner of this site, I would be quite upset at the author of this story, and at the Financial Post. To me, using the name of RFD right in the article to paint everyone here with the "sociopathic" brush is borderline defamation. It is an obvious attempt to tarnish the reputation of this site and its members.

Granted, there are sociopaths on RFD. People who unscrupulously seek price matches and so on when they know it is against the rules do harm our reputation as a community, as do those who knowingly coerce unsuspecting cashiers in other ways - even if it's 'technically' not prohibited in the terms and conditions of a given sale, that doesn't mean it's morally correct.

I don't like to be grouped in with the above losers, so I find this article insulting.

According to dictionary.com:

so⋅ci⋅o⋅path
   /ˈsoʊsiəˌpæθ, ˈsoʊʃi-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [soh-see-uh-path, soh-shee-] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun Psychiatry.
a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.


Sociopathic Santas stuffing their bags

Kevin Baker, Financial Post Published: Saturday, December 13, 2008
Related Topics

Wanted by Canadian retailers: copy editors who can think like sociopaths.

This gift-buying season, sociopaths are getting all the best deals. On their tribal message boards, bold bargain-hunters unbothered by a sense of shame swap tales of cashiers coldly scammed and stores raided bare.

Mark's Work Warehouse issued a $10 cash card through its Web site. "It's free money. Just print it out and use it to pay for anything [except socks, gloves, underwear and headwear) ... One card per customer ...Valid for one-time use only until Dec. 24."

You get the idea: One person may print and spend one coupon. You understand the offer because you are not a sociopath. Heroes on the sociopathic networking sites redflagdeals.comand ************.catold of using 37 coupons in one store -- each transaction just over the minimum amount -- and coming away with hundreds of dollars worth of merchandise (mugs, flashlights, stockingstuffers) for next to nothing. They were printing more coupons for tomorrow, when they would plunder every Mark's Warehouse in driving distance. Not five days into the promotion, the terms had been revised. Added to the exclusion list were Burt's Beeswax, golf tools, earplugs and bags.

The current version of the coupon reads: "Use it to pay for most anything ..." "One card per customer/ household." As if this might stop them.

Mark's losses to the sociopathic network may be slight compared with retailers hit with a poorly worded Zellers ad for Xbox and PlayStation games: "2/$30. Reg. 19.99-59.99 ea. Your Choice! Gaming Blowout!"

If you buy video games you know new titles are almost never discounted more than 10%. Two for $30 can only mean the clearance bin. You would not go to Zellers and suggest the ad entitled you to 75% off the latest Xbox releases. You are not a sociopath.

They bought 18 at a time. Some guy dragged his loot out in a garbage bag. An entrepreneur stripped one store of 82 copies of Gears of War 2. When Zellers turned them away, they brought the flyer to Future Shop, Best Buy, Wal-Mart -- any store with a price-matching policy. Surprisingly often, they left loaded.

So, beware. If Cousin Riff or Aunt Shilona arrives for dinner in an overcoat lined with video games for the kids and lip balms for the grown-ups, watch them closely around the dogs and the good cutlery.

[AMDr]

AMDr - Why are you listing this in your signature? Are you selling your computer (and internet connection?)???

I mean, why else would someone list this?

So people will ask me stupid questions about why I would put something like :arrowd: in my sig... why, do you want to buy my internet connection?

[Impossibles]

bang on article.

People like the ones he mentions disgust me.

[selpats]

So people will ask me stupid questions about why I would put something like :arrowd: in my sig... why, do you want to buy my internet connection?

Yeah, just what I figured. Immature brat. Go ahead, flex your e-penis. :lol:

[selpats]

bang on article.

People like the ones he mentions disgust me.

Exactly! :arrowu:

That article was spot-on.

[AMDr]

Yeah, just what I figured. Immature brat. Go ahead, flex your e-penis. :lol:

Immature brat:?::?::?: flex your e-penis:?::?::?:
Whatever dud... er, dude

[anycee]

???
I see no problem with either of the two examples posted. Marks shouldn't have printed the ad - it is clearly so open to abuse. Zellers shouldn't have honoured the ad - no wonder they are going bankrupt.

Stuff like using something for 60 days then returning it to Costco is scamming IMO. Not buying things companies choose to sell by exploiting poor pricing policies they choose to honour.

[i6s1]

There is a fine line between deal sharing and ripping off stores. The article does show RFD in a bad light, but that's not the FP's fault. I blame the selfish hoarders amongst us.

[emoci]

Eh, look at the good side, he visits this site long enough he'll soon be "one of us" ...let the chanting begin...

[angel_wing0]

It does...

my bad, didnt read the article closely enough...

[001Stunna]

Eh, look at the good side, he visits this site long enough he'll soon be "one of us" ...let the chanting begin...

One of us...one of us...one of us...:twisted::twisted:


in the end though, cmon what was the reason people joined this forum...To Get Info On Good Deals. Just because some may abuse those "deals" doesnt mean majority does.

[aelam]

According to dictionary.com:

so⋅ci⋅o⋅path
   /ˈsoʊsiəˌpæθ, ˈsoʊʃi-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [soh-see-uh-path, soh-shee-] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun Psychiatry.
a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.

I'd say that's a 100% accurate description of many users here.

[yao416]

brb gonna print out 100 coupons.

[emoci]

I have a feeling there may be a "Free Subscription to Financial Post for a Year" on Freebies somewhere...one for each member of the family?

[Impossibles]

???
I see no problem with either of the two examples posted. Marks shouldn't have printed the ad - it is clearly so open to abuse. Zellers shouldn't have honoured the ad - no wonder they are going bankrupt.

Stuff like using something for 60 days then returning it to Costco is scamming IMO. Not buying things companies choose to sell by exploiting poor pricing policies they choose to honour.

Ethics are what you do when nobody is watching.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something.

[JAC]

Don't take this douche Baker too seriously. After all, he's the one who suggested Ontario's polygamous welfare deadbeats collecting individual dole handouts for each of their wives might like to corral their better halves (better eighths?) into a Muslim curling team.

[MrDisco]

what was the deal with the Marks coupon?

[matdwyer]

I've been preaching about taking advantage for a while now - everyone always chirps me when I post about it... if you feel embarrassed printing off 37 copies and trying to use them, then done. If you don't feel embarrassed, then you probably are a sociopath

[Kommander_KornFlakes]

One word, big hoarders!! The 82 video games made me sick reading it on rfd. I stopped reading after that. I mean if I got the deal max I'll probably buy would be like 4 but god 82 is just sickening!!

How can they allow some butthead to buy 82 copies of video games, leaving everybody else holding the bag, and then reselling them overpriced just a week later? Shame, shame on that retail chain store.

[Bazooka Joe]

what was the deal with the Marks coupon?

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=667142

[sweeper]

oh puh-lease. :rolleyes:

MWW should have known better that their coupon was probably going to be abused.

Which reminds me, I need to buy another 20 cases of Black Shoe Polish.

[ZenOps]

Two words:

Gel-Us.

:lol:

[anycee]

Ethics are what you do when nobody is watching.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something.

I follow the rules of the game. I see no ethical problem with this.
I'm infriging on no one's rights, and one might argue it is my right to buy something at the advertised price.

If I buy something below cost (that I would have bought at cost but not at retail), then the company is losing money, but I am gaining more than the company is losing. Keep in mind I have less money than the companies shareholders (higher marginal utility of money) and also pay less tax. Therefore it is increasing total utility.

I see nothing unjust about asking a company to honour an offer it made. If the offer was stupid, then it isn't my fault. People take bad offers all the time, on cars, on phone plans, on just about everything. Futureshop makes its money on monster cables and service plans. In this case, the companies are using poorly designed promotional strategies. That isn't my fault. Companies are happy to take advantage of poorly informed consumers. Companies have more responsiblity to be informed. I see no problem with taking advantage of their mistakes.

[Dash]

I never wound up using the Marks Work Warehouse coupon. It didn't seem worth the trip for me, and I've never shopped at that store. I also hate hoarders. Although I agree with some of the points in the article, the writer seems like a pr*ck and should get off his high horse.

[ssainani]

I follow the rules of the game. I see no ethical problem with this.
I'm infriging on no one's rights, and one might argue it is my right to buy something at the advertised price. ... blah blah blah....

except the consumers have rights either way

the store never wins

I'm sure when stores see people from this site approaching they reacted how people did 80 years ago when swarms of locusts would reap and plunder everything they had

[ssainani]

I'm infriging on no one's rights, and one might argue it is my right to buy something at the advertised price.

this is the problem

and the mentality here

you have zero right

it's just cheaper for the store to give you the garbage item that you've waited for than to fight for 40 minutes and lose PR

[Impossibles]

I follow the rules of the game. I see no ethical problem with this.
I'm infriging on no one's rights, and one might argue it is my right to buy something at the advertised price.

If I buy something below cost (that I would have bought at cost but not at retail), then the company is losing money, but I am gaining more than the company is losing. Keep in mind I have less money than the companies shareholders (higher marginal utility of money) and also pay less tax. Therefore it is increasing total utility.

I see nothing unjust about asking a company to honour an offer it made. If the offer was stupid, then it isn't my fault. People take bad offers all the time, on cars, on phone plans, on just about everything. Futureshop makes its money on monster cables and service plans. In this case, the companies are using poorly designed promotional strategies. That isn't my fault. Companies are happy to take advantage of poorly informed consumers. Companies have more responsiblity to be informed. I see no problem with taking advantage of their mistakes.

The coupon said one coupon per customer. You abused it because they had no way of tracking the customers. The intent was to limit one usage per person.

[alias_neo]

Hay guise, we're famous!

I see no wrong in taking advantage of price errors from huge corporations. It isn't my fault someone from the inside screwed up. The way I see it is that most people pay for things at marked up prices all the time including me. These price errors come only once in a blue moon and still doesn't make a dent at the profits they made from selling them at marked up prices. If the employee was smart or anal enough, they'd refuse to sell it at that price.

And just so we're clear, I really didn't get to take advantage of Zeller's errors or Mark's coupon deals since I had exams. I and probably the majority of members use RFD to hunt out the best possible deal for an item before shelling out my hard-earned money. I don't call that being a sociopath, I call it being smart.

Now being paranoid of someone being something as simple as a bargain hunter to the point where you should be wary whether they have anything sharp around them; that's a pretty sociopathic characteristic if you ask me. Kevin Baker can take his article and stick up his sensationalist ass for all I care.

[yao416]

wait, what?
that coupon was a error? :lol:

[anycee]

this is the problem

and the mentality here

you have zero right

it's just cheaper for the store to give you the garbage item that you've waited for than to fight for 40 minutes and lose PR

I drive down to store X to get an item according to the terms they set. If those terms were poorly set, then why is it my fault? I invested my time to go to their store because I thought I could get an item according to their promotion.

[sweeper]

I'm surprised no newspaper has reported on the "Scanning Code of Practice" and how that gets abused constantly. Not that I'm complaining. :lol:

[ZenOps]

Actually you do have a right to buy retail - as long as the playing field is equal to everyone (IE: No exclusions)

If a manufacturer offers a rebate or a shop offers a coupon, they are pretty well bound to honour it. If its a misprint on a flyer its a little different - they almost always have a disclaimer in tiny print on the last page "subject to price corrections", which stores do many flyer retractions.

Unless the coupon or rebate specifically states: We reserve the right to limit, etc... Then its pretty well fair game.

Squeaky wheels though - do get the grease. I complained about a 12-pack of beer on a SCOP and they didn't have any of the freebie glasses that they advertised with it. Lo and behold, one month later, $15 in gift cards arrives at my door.

The power is definitely with the consumer right now - use it to your full advantage I say. Haggle Ford for a 3 for 1, nevermind a 2 fer.

[ssainani]

I drive down to store X to get an item according to the terms they set. If those terms were poorly set, then why is it my fault? I invested my time to go to their store because I thought I could get an item according to their promotion.


the terms are not poorly set -- it says '1 use per household'

unless in your eyes poorly set means 'scam-able'

[anycee]

The coupon said one coupon per customer. You abused it because they had no way of tracking the customers. The intent was to limit one usage per person.
I didn't abuse it. I have a life - I'm not going to go to marks to save $10.

Sorry, I didn't even read the coupon. I was going by the article where it said "1 coupon per customer". If someone is using 40 at a time, then they should have enforced it. If they meant "1 per person" they should have said that and tracked it (for example through a rebate).

The fact that the company put out a stupid promotion isn't my fault.

[Impossibles]

I didn't abuse it. I have a life - I'm not going to go to marks to save $10.

Sorry, I didn't even read the coupon. I was going by the article. I thought the coupon said "1 coupon per customer per visit". That means if you choose to come back imediately and use it again, it is fair game. If someone is using 40 at a time, then they should have enforced it. If they meant "1 per person" they should have said that and tracked it (for example through a rebate).

The fact that the company put out a stupid promotion isn't my fault.

It didn't say 'per visit', just 'one card per customer'.

And this discussion is not about if it is legal to abuse the coupon, it was that people who exhibit patterns of retail abuse like this and the zellers 2/$30 games sale could be considered sociopaths.

[Bazooka Joe]

I drive down to store X to get an item according to the terms they set. If those terms were poorly set, then why is it my fault? I invested my time to go to their store because I thought I could get an item according to their promotion.

I think what you meant to say was:

I read about how a promotion was offered to a group of people who wasn't me. Then I find out in can be used in a way for which it was not originally intended due to lack of legal writing. They then change the coupon (to include the legal writing), but someone saved a copy of the old one. I print off the old copy that I didn't receive in the first place, make multiple copies of it so I can buy unlimited travel mugs.

If I'm incorrect and you are a MWW email subscriber and you printed off multiple coupons on the first day and happend to be in the store purchasing golf tees one box at a time, please accept my appologies.

I don't think it's a huge stretch of the imagination to think that some of these items are going to end up on craigslist/ebay/BST.

[purple_rabbit]

This article gives us a bad rep to the majority of us who aren't that cheap.

[anycee]

I think what you meant to say was:

I read about how a promotion was offered to a group of people who wasn't me. Then I find out in can be used in a way for which it was not originally intended due to lack of legal writing. They then change the coupon (to include the legal writing), but someone saved a copy of the old one. I print off the old copy that I didn't receive in the first place, make multiple copies of it so I can buy unlimited travel mugs.

If I'm incorrect and you are a MWW email subscriber and you printed off multiple coupons on the first day and happend to be in the store purchasing golf tees one box at a time, please accept my appologies.

I don't think it's a huge stretch of the imagination to think that some of these items are going to end up on craigslist/ebay/BST.

Didn't use the coupon. Didn't read the MWW thread. Read the FP article this thread is about.
The article says "Mark's Work Warehouse issued a $10 cash card through its Web site. ".
Printing off a coupon from a website and using it multiple times sounds fine to me. The other behaviour isn't, but like I said, I didn't read the thread.
My point is that I see no behaviour I disagree with in the article. If a store has a price error and allows people to buy as much as they want at that price, then I don't think the consumer is at fault. I've never done this.

[toalan]

I do not know what is worse MMW and zeller's for being so dumb or abusers who prey on other people's mistakes.

[Tijuana]

Lawyers use fine print to win their cases. Why cant we to save some money?

[Impossibles]

Lawyers use fine print to win their cases. Why cant we to save some money?

Well as long as you're comfortable with putting yourself on the same ethical level as lawyers, whom many consider to be the scum sucking bottom feeders that suck the scum off the bottom of the bottom feeders, then you go right ahead. (not all lawyers, but a lot of them)

I try to point my moral compass a little higher than just above the lowest target.

[flexwong]

Lawyers use fine print to win their cases. Why cant we to save some money?

but we're not talking about people using fine print to save money. people are using it to MAKE money.

[ZenOps]

MWW probably did it as a failed publicity stunt.

Anyone who writes up coupons like $10 of $10, always puts in the disclaimer "we have the right to limit quantities" or at the very least "one per customer per day"

[Impossibles]

MWW probably did it as a failed publicity stunt.

Anyone who writes up coupons like $10 of $10, always puts in the disclaimer "we have the right to limit quantities" or at the very least "one per customer per day"

I'm not sure where you live, so can you save me driving time by slapping yourself on the head for me?

[cdoran]

Ethics are what you do when nobody is watching.




That's the definition for Integrity not Ethics. Ethics are more what you do when people are looking.


On topic, I would define these "sociopathic" actions as Capitalism.

[ZenOps]

MWW probably did it as a failed publicity stunt.

Anyone who writes up coupons like $10 of $10, always puts in the disclaimer "we have the right to limit quantities" or at the very least "one per customer per day"

Do customers have the right to not buy without penalty? Look at Bell Canada, they want over a Billion dollars from a potential buyer - just because they said they wanted it way back when - but they don't want it now (Backed out of the deal.)

Strange times we live in.

[Dimension]

Eh, look at the good side, he visits this site long enough he'll soon be "one of us" ...let the chanting begin...

Hahaha, comic relief. I bet he's already one of us. He's the extreme deal hunter, who's writing about his accounts in this article.


I don't like to be grouped in with the above losers, so I find this article insulting.


+1 and I'm very offended. Baker's article places us under one umbrella. This article is full of broad generalizations, which creates this unreal image of RFDers and SC-ers. He only highlights the extreme deal hunters, but it's still exaggerated and completely out of context.

Kevin Baker has made some powerful enemies today. :rolleyes: *shakes head* I'm very disgusted with this article.

[ZenOps]

MWW probably did it as a failed publicity stunt.

Anyone who writes up coupons like $10 of $10, always puts in the disclaimer "we have the right to limit quantities" or at the very least "one per customer per day"

I still have the printout of the web downloadable original coupon. It says nothing about quantities. It does say however - no socks, no gloves, etc..

[anycee]

Hahaha, comic relief. I bet he's already one of us. He's the extreme deal hunter. How else would he know so much info., IMO, he's writing about himself.

IMO, he is trying to guilt the lurkers off to help remove the RFD effect. He knows the people that post deals are already too far gone.

[cmge]

its always the hoarders who ruin everything... -_-

[felixdd]

This Kevin Baker character sounds very bitter about this whole thing. Granted he does have a point about buying 82 copies of a game, but as far as to generalize an entire online community's behavior on the action of 1 or 2, especially if he never saw this happen himself?

Why is he so bitter? Did he buy some used deodorant?

[ZenOps]

Hes probably just angry because his stock broker told him to hold onto Nortel stock - while all the time his broker was making a fortune shorting it from 120.00 to 0.05

That the common consumer has finally figured out how to use every resource (IE: internet) to their advantage, probably scares him.

[ChopSuey]

So the FP thinks RFDers are sociopaths?

I would consider what happened at the Wal-Mart in Rhode Island during Black Friday sociopathic. Stepping on a guy and killing him just to get a deal is the worst of the worst.

[Dimension]

IMO, he is trying to guilt the lurkers off to help remove the RFD effect.

Okay, I understand that he is trying to deter people, and 'minimize the RFD effect'. IMO, he could have written the article nicely. Still, it is extreme of Baker to say that people on RFD and SC are mentally ill (i.e. 'sociopaths').

Why is he so bitter? Did he buy some used deodorant?

Hahaha, @ the deodorant joke. Nono, I probably broke his spirit in the OT fourms, when I made a joke at his expense.

Or he wanted to buy a game and there wasn't anymore left for him. So (IMO), Baker decided to spin his blog entry into an article. :rolleyes:

[UrbanPoet]

they forgot to mention the free angus burger @ harvey's!

[Justin]

Does this Financial Post guy have a user name on RFD? Should try and dig up some dirt on this guy.

[m1b]

If we allow for this idea from FP to be true - "that people who abuse the $10 Marks coupon are sociopaths", then what would the FP call the executives of Walmart who closed an entire store in Quebec after the employess attained union status? Ethics are out the window when a big company like Walmart would shut down a store in order to defeat the union. Somehow, I think that the losses for Walmart amount to a little more than all the $10 freebies from MWH this month. FP should compare the behaviour of Walmart to the people who have done what is legal and then tells us who is unethical.

Plain and simple is that MWH marketing has failed with this promotion and the blame is solely theirs for not wording the coupon appropriately. Look at the 16 digit coupon codes from Staples, obviously intended for the receipient to use only, but can be given to someone else for one-time use only. There are many ways to do this type of promotion properly and it looks like MWH selected the worst one.

[Chr1s]

As I suspected, the pot calling the kettle black. :lol:


Retailers Kiss-ing up
Kevin Baker, Financial Post
Published: Saturday, December 06, 2008

Last week we shopped SportChek's Friends & Family Sale. No one in our family works at SportChek. We do not have a SportChek employee for a friend (nothing personal). We felt slightly fraudulent claiming the discount. If anybody asked for proof of a SportChek relationship, we were prepared to mention a niece's boyfriend, Johnny or something, who works in the warehouse.

While paying for a pair of boots -- 25% off -- we spied a large-print memo beside the cash register. One day next week, it said, all employees of stores in that shopping mall would get 30% off their SportChek purchase. We imagined the mother or father of a SportChek clerk seeing the memo: You give your father 25% off a yoga ball in the name of family, and you turn around and give a stranger 30% off because he wears a badge from Taco Time? Following this escalating discount trend, we -- being further removed than family, friend and mall-fellow --ought to have gotten 35% off.

This week, Tommy Hilfiger is holding a warehouse sale in Mississauga. A VIP day preceded the four-day public sale. We may pose as extended family, but we would never try passing as VIP, even when a VIP is whoever prints the invitation off the Internet. We have some shame. Anyway, what VIP shops in a warehouse? Real VIPs have their shopping done by VUPs.

We bet Gene Simmons does not shop for himself. We could ask him today at the Future Shop just opened in Hell's Back Forty, the vast retail grey zone formally known as South Edmonton Common. Celebrity exhibit Simmons will sign autographs and play the video game Rock Band on a mock guitar.

In the 1970s, Simmons belonged to the costume-rock band Kiss. He wore a tongue extension, remember? Today he wears what looks intriguingly like a wig of stiff hairs plucked from the loins of juvenile Japanese black bears, and goes on reality TV. It would be neat to see the hairdo up close, but not if we had to wait in line. And we would have to wait. Future Shop has made sure of it, evidently less than confident in Simmons' power to draw the crowd. "The first 100 people in line will receive a free gift card [worth] $5, $25 or $50." And take the best parking.


http://www.financialpost.com/money/story.html?id=1039544

[i6s1]

If we allow for this idea from FP to be true - "that people who abuse the $10 Marks coupon are sociopaths", then what would the FP call the executives of Walmart who closed an entire store in Quebec after the employess attained union status? Ethics are out the window when a big company like Walmart would shut down a store in order to defeat the union. Somehow, I think that the losses for Walmart amount to a little more than all the $10 freebies from MWH this month. FP should compare the behaviour of Walmart to the people who have done what is legal and then tells us who is unethical.

Plain and simple is that MWH marketing has failed with this promotion and the blame is solely theirs for not wording the coupon appropriately. Look at the 16 digit coupon codes from Staples, obviously intended for the receipient to use only, but can be given to someone else for one-time use only. There are many ways to do this type of promotion properly and it looks like MWH selected the worst one.

Nonsense. Jeffery Dalmer killed people. That has no effect the ethicality of abusing the MWW promo. Neither does Walmart.

[Canuck32]

The word sociopath is pretty strong here. While I certainly believe in the inherent goodness of people, often people are more concerned about their own needs and wants than they are about the needs and wants of others and society as a whole. This is classic game theory. Whether it involves using questionable ethics to take advantage of a retailer, shoplifting, or purchasing a fake university degree, individuals often act in their own self-interest.

[mathewvc]

article is very true for some members here... i wouldn't doubt half the hoarders aren't even members... just scout and go shopping.

[sweeper]

Last week we shopped SportChek's Friends & Family Sale. No one in our family works at SportChek. We do not have a SportChek employee for a friend (nothing personal). We felt slightly fraudulent claiming the discount. If anybody asked for proof of a SportChek relationship, we were prepared to mention a niece's boyfriend, Johnny or something, who works in the warehouse.

What a hypocrite. Kevin Baker = joke.

[laptop-tech]

At work, if someone wants to use fraudulent coupons and demand price errors to be honoured, in most cases its a RFD'er.

Now RFD is drawing more and more attention thoughout other retail chains. Sadly this place is becoming a hangout for thieves and low life scammers.

The article hit the nail right on the head.

[watching]

http://www.financialpost.com/money/story.html?id=1071205

I always figured this, glad to know I'm not alone.

zoro69 found the article and posted it in the MWW $10 off card thread, I thought it would deserve it's own.

They're thieves, but sociopaths??? That's a bit extreme.

[Maxman]

Does anyone know where I can get a discount on the FP? Free would be even better!

[watching]

Does anyone know where I can get a discount on the FP? Free would be even better!

http://www.financialpost.com/ :D

[chris103610]

this article is VERY true IMO.

to an extent this website advises us of the latest deals and how we can exploit them.
but i mean, that's life right?

[Jon Lai]

Why doesn't Financial Post have a comments section like all the other newspaper websites?

[molala]

No one got the message that Baker is one of the RFDers who couldn't take advantage of many of the deals and jealous over it so he published this article?!?! :lol:

[qviri]

Futureshop makes its money on monster cables and service plans.

Exactly.

When corporations do it to consumers, it's called good business practices. When consumers do it to corporations, it's apparently called sociopathy.

[dealstime]

From when did asking what has been advertised a mental problem? I don't remember reading an article on how these big guys cheat people. And what is the problem with price matching? It is advertised by stores and people are using it (infact many are not even aware). The author is so ignorant..

[dealiah]

The author of this article is a shameful and ignorant being to compare 'us' (or anyone, for that matter, who desires a good deal) with 'sociopaths'! It is a daring remark - especially considering his 'sneakily' doing a 'deal' that he tells us he was not entitled to just the week before - and is meant to be nothing more than a combustible commentary. He is reprehensible in this comparison and reckless in his suggestions.

There is a type of people who deserve such a title, but to dare and lump a massive community (well, specifically targeting TWO communities) as such a behavioral type is a sad commentary. More that he is sad.....

Certainly there are folks (here?) who like nothing more than to brag shamelessly of their deceitful behavior in boldly scamming companies, but it IS relatively few and far between.

We obviously do not suffer from 'an antisocial disorder', as we wouldn't be here, uh... sharing; our 'social behavior' is not 'extremely abnormal' - we just aren't rolling in the big bucks like the CEO of ...say.... The Financial Post; and with the state of affairs these days, who isn't interested in their 'personal needs and desires'. However, it is not true to say everyone on RFD and SC (sh*t Baker, there ARE others too....) have 'zero concern for the effects of their behavior on others', and maybe he should spend a little more time on these sites reading OTHER THREADS before making any commentary at all. (Just wondering when was the last time he volunteered for anything? Made a donation? I know for a fact many on here do, and often.) OH, and I certainly hope he never tries to use a coupon.....

Meanwhile, while reading this post, and then the article, I alternated between shaking my head, nodding furiously, and laughing so hard I spit on the monitor.

[Byrns]

That article is very accurate. There are many, many sociopaths on RFD. You just need to look at some of the threads about returning used deodorant, or scamming Costco's return policy. Every time there's a misprint somewhere 100's of people are checking the thread and crying "LAWSUIT!" when the merchant catches on.

I'm just surprised nobody has cried racism yet, since that's what normally happens here when someone writes something that RFDer's get "offended" over.

[whampoa]

Kevin Baker didn't have any new ideas for a story, or didn't have the hutzbah to use the coupon/ad himself this holiday season. He sounds quite bitter to me in fact..

Simple, he got rejected by MWW/FS/BB/[insert your favorite retailers] for doing the same deed as us.

Since he can't name names, it's one way for him to get his frustration out on other.

[zoolander]

The writer has a connection to the CEO of Zellers, who also had a 5 year stint as president of CTire (parent of MMW).
His story is a form of viral marketing, the real purpose behind it. Traffic to these stores will increase as a result of the story. Remember, the Financial Post is a right wing media arm.
To debate the sensationalist sociopath comment is being trolled. If he is lurking here, he is laughing.

[Snicla]

Sounds like someone is jealous of bargain hunters. A case of, they suck because they saw an opportunity and took it. Fu*k you National Post. Send me your FREE trial offer of newspapers biznatches!

[Snicla]

That article is very accurate. There are many, many sociopaths on RFD. You just need to look at some of the threads about returning used deodorant, or scamming Costco's return policy. Every time there's a misprint somewhere 100's of people are checking the thread and crying "LAWSUIT!" when the merchant catches on.

I'm just surprised nobody has cried racism yet, since that's what normally happens here when someone writes something that RFDer's get "offended" over.

Racist!

[HeldDown]

At the risk of invoking reductio ad absurdum, I would like to make a few quick examples of how this actually is sociopathic. Saying "It's not my fault I'm taking advantage of their mistake by not wording the coupon properly/having staff who are more willing to enforce policy/etc" is like saying...

- "It's not my fault I broke into their house and stole their Xbox, they should've used a better quality lock on their window."

- "It's not my fault I t-boned that car while doing 60km over the speed limit through a red light, that person should have looked before they entered the intersection."

- "It's not my fault I touched that girl at the party inappropriately, she was dressed like a skank."

- "It's not my fault I burned down the house, my parents should never have left matches unattended."

Just because you can theoretically achieve something doesn't mean it's morally or ethically sound. Just sound food for thought.

[Arachnaman]

Customers suppose to not to have any ethics and the article is almost right on RFDers. Not everyone scam on business owners in this site though. Since all customers are all employees (excluding government workers) or some business owners themselves, what comes around goes around. If someone cheat on their business, I'm sure everyone is kind enough let their customers to do so.

[ali123]

Is Clear Sky Media Inc gonna take any action on this?

[Pavel]

According to Dictionary.com: Sociopath–noun Psychiatry.
a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.

It's true, many RFDers gloat at getting a deal especially toward others who may not be able to do so. They'll even go as far as to buy many items at a significant savings just to gloat about and many will spend considerable time and effort trying to PM with retailers.

However, if the psychiatric and pharmaceutical world had their way, they'd catergorize everyone as having a mood or personality disorder so they can be prescribed prescription drugs that have signifcant side effects.

[scoobydoo]

http://www.financialpost.com/money/story.html?id=1071205

I always figured this, glad to know I'm not alone.

zoro69 found the article and posted it in the MWW $10 off card thread, I thought it would deserve it's own.

If one were to educate themselves on the DSM IV, the psychiatric manual, that exists for Psychiatry, one would read that all CEO's, capitalists, owners, stock holders, etc, are PSYCHOPATHS. This is not a lie, go read the evidence. Anyone who believes money is more valuable than human life (which is even people who hate the homeless) is a PSYCHOPATH.

So someone who uses a coupon multiple times (honestly though, hopefully not more than they need, because other people need it too.), is not SOCIOPATHIC. Mark's has been around or years, if they can't afford to build a coupon that only works once per customer (With a unique code), than obviously this was meant to happen, and publicity comes with press on RFD and in newspapers like the Financial Post and whoever writes about this.

[scoobydoo]

However, if the psychiatric and pharmaceutical world had their way, they'd catergorize everyone as having a mood or personality disorder so they can be prescribed prescription drugs that have signifcant side effects.

They are working toward that as we speak. Go and find out how many 'mental illnesses' existed, 20 years ago, and see how much there are today. There are tens and hundreds more, not because they exist more, but because pharmaceutical companies want more profits and people mind numbing drugs, it's easier than putting Fluoride in the water, which apparently does almost the same thing.

[Deal_Princess]

Eh, look at the good side, he visits this site long enough he'll soon be "one of us" ...let the chanting begin...:lol:

One of us...one of us...one of us...:twisted::twisted:


in the end though, cmon what was the reason people joined this forum...To Get Info On Good Deals. Just because some may abuse those "deals" doesnt mean majority does.:lol:

Exactly.

When corporations do it to consumers, it's called good business practices. When consumers do it to corporations, it's apparently called sociopathy.

amen brothaa

[matdwyer]

I disagree that corporations doing it to us is on the same level - we can choose to buy monster cables or PSPs, we EXPECT them to honour our coupons.

Regardless, the companies will just do the easy thing - not offer us discounts. Not offer us coupons. Not offer us promos.

Then they'll be the ones laughing as we are sitting here crying paying retail price for everything.

Since I've got here, I've lost tons of respect for members of RFD. Every action has a reaction - yes you may scam $10 from MWW, who's shareholders are very rich. But who takes that loss? Is it the shareholder? probably not. Its the store that they have to close as its not reaching profit. Or the cashier who now doesn't have a job because they had to reduce their labour force. Or its YOU who has to pay more than $10 profit on your next purchase there to recoup their profits.

Theres no free rides in life and thinking that a company will just brush off a loss (such as selling xbox360 games for $15) and not changing their entire structure is a bit ridiculous (also, whos to bet that those cashiers who checked out 84 copies still have a job? How do you feel knowing that their children don't have food on the table now that mommy accidentally got scammed at work?)

Some of you make me lose faith in man kind

[molala]

They are working toward that as we speak. Go and find out how many 'mental illnesses' existed, 20 years ago, and see how much there are today. There are tens and hundreds more, not because they exist more, but because pharmaceutical companies want more profits and people mind numbing drugs, it's easier than putting Fluoride in the water, which apparently does almost the same thing.

I hope you mean disorders and not mental illnesses because NOT everything on DSM IV are mental illnesses

[jakeer]

I agree, the article is accurate.

As an added bonus, this thread is nicely pointing out a good number of the sociopaths on RFD - i.e., those that have said the author of the article is bitter/jealous/has been rejected, or those that scream "it's the corporation's fault! They should have proofread better! I'm just exercising my rights! The CEOs are the same way!".

News flash: if you know it's a mistake, and are determined to exploit and abuse it anyway, then you lack a sense of morals and ethics. Hence, sociopath.

[qviri]

I disagree that corporations doing it to us is on the same level - we can choose to buy monster cables or PSPs, we EXPECT them to honour our coupons.

You can choose to buy monster cables. The average person, who has no idea about electronics, will go into Futureshop and vastly overpay on a cable or get talked into buying extended warranty on a pack of CD-Rs. But don't expect Financial Post to call than unethical or sociopathic... I suspect the article would go more along the lines of Maximizing Average Revenue Per Visit Through Individualized In-Store Customer Counselling.

Regardless, the companies will just do the easy thing - not offer us discounts. Not offer us coupons. Not offer us promos.

Then they'll be the ones laughing as we are sitting here crying paying retail price for everything.

Hardly. Discounts, coupons, and promos are what gets people in the stores, and are done with a calculation that along the way, they'll pick up something with a larger margin. They are also done with a calculation accounting for the "sociopaths".

As a form of marketing, they can definitely be replaced with other forms of marketing: witness Apple. But for all the success Apple has had, Acer and Sandisk are still around. Low prices as a method of retailer differentiation aren't going anywhere.

Theres no free rides in life
[signature]
Do you have a high profile Toronto based blog? Contact me for some free stuff :lol:

Yeah.

[bokep]

RFD has a large number of freaks.

My favourite was the guy who checked RFD every 5 minutes on his blackberry and would drive around all day hitting up stores for price errors and doing stuff like this.

No one knew these people previously exist because they're the ones you don't make friends with.

[Gloaming]

AMDr - Why are you listing this in your signature? Are you selling your computer (and internet connection?)???

I mean, why else would someone list this?


Look at how the forum Troll quietly hijacks a thread in order to pick a battle to the death with another poster.

Who cares about his signature!?!?!?!? It is actually forum etiquette on many forums to paste your computer specs in case you ever require technical help from another user.

[poedua]

If one were to educate themselves on the DSM IV, the psychiatric manual, that exists for Psychiatry, one would read that all CEO's, capitalists, owners, stock holders, etc, are PSYCHOPATHS. This is not a lie, go read the evidence. Anyone who believes money is more valuable than human life (which is even people who hate the homeless) is a PSYCHOPATH.

Anyone who really thinks that a basic understanding of the contents of the DSM IV would cause one to conclude that all CEO's, capitalists, owners, stock holders, etc, are PSYCHOPATHS - i.e that all CEO's, capitalists, owners, stock holders, etc believe money is more valuable than human life - has no clue what they're talking about IMO.

[matdwyer]

You can choose to buy monster cables. The average person, who has no idea about electronics, will go into Futureshop and vastly overpay on a cable or get talked into buying extended warranty on a pack of CD-Rs. But don't expect Financial Post to call than unethical or sociopathic... I suspect the article would go more along the lines of Maximizing Average Revenue Per Visit Through Individualized In-Store Customer Counselling.



While I agree that the stores do have certain products to boost margins, and they are pushed more. I worked at FS a while back and regardless of what they told me to push I didn't push it if it wasn't the best for the customer.

Truth be told the warranty is a good call on CERTAIN products, if you can haggle it down.

Regardless, taking advantage of promotions is wrong. Using that cash card once or maybe twice is cool - but using it like 40 times? ridiculous. Buying a game that you know is priced wrong - sure, ok once or twice. Buying 80 copies? hell no.

I relate this to Buddhism - take the middle way, moderation is key.


Hardly. Discounts, coupons, and promos are what gets people in the stores, and are done with a calculation that along the way, they'll pick up something with a larger margin. They are also done with a calculation accounting for the "sociopaths".

As a form of marketing, they can definitely be replaced with other forms of marketing: witness Apple. But for all the success Apple has had, Acer and Sandisk are still around. Low prices as a method of retailer differentiation aren't going anywhere.



I was making a point and over exaggerated...but you wont see a free $5 gift card again to Rexall or a free angus burger to harveys... but if it didn't get abused? you probably would see it next year, if it was a good promotion. I agree that there is room for the apples and the acers, and I agree that there is some calculation for the number of times it will be used, etc.

Yeah.


Lol, ok that is pretty funny to read over. Thats un-related and is actually me giving my product away as a form of marketing for someone to review on their blog... but funny in this context.

[silentio]

Im surprised they didnt mention Harvey's

[qviri]

Regardless, taking advantage of promotions is wrong. Using that cash card once or maybe twice is cool - but using it like 40 times? ridiculous. Buying a game that you know is priced wrong - sure, ok once or twice. Buying 80 copies? hell no.

I'm not saying doing that is OK.

However, it is very far fetched for Financial Post of all publications to call people who do that "sociopathic".

[IronMac]

LOL! I like the use of the word "plunder". :lol:

Is it our fault that the companies mentioned had a bad law department or incompetent risk managers? Tough on them for not doing due diligence.

[CeoOfKFC]

http://www.financialpost.com/money/story.html?id=1071205

I always figured this, glad to know I'm not alone.

zoro69 found the article and posted it in the MWW $10 off card thread, I thought it would deserve it's own.

Wow talk about cheap. There's a difference between getting a bargain and being cheap.

I can imagine people here going into a grocery store to buy a case of Nestea. Going to their car and ripping the FREE coupon out and going back into the store.

[molala]

Wow talk about cheap. There's a difference between getting a bargain and being cheap.

I can imagine people here going into a grocery store to buy a case of Nestea. Going to their car and ripping the FREE coupon out and going back into the store.

Nothing wrong with that unless they are returning the Nestea.

[CeoOfKFC]

Nothing wrong with that unless they are returning the Nestea.

I agree. Nothing wrong with that. Its just plain cheap though.

But the fight that the person(s) put up with the retailers for taking advantage of a poorly worded ad (it was not a typo just poorly worded) for the Gears of Wars 2. I mean do these people have jobs? Or do they just search word-by-word every flyer verbatim for something to abuse store workers with to get their discounted product. Who knows. Well I guess their excuse can be "recession" and how far people are willing to go..

[Takada]

After reading the last few pages of the MWW thread, I'm inclined to agree with Mr. Baker.

[mysticalinfluence]

RFD has a large number of freaks.

My favourite was the guy who checked RFD every 5 minutes on his blackberry and would drive around all day hitting up stores for price errors and doing stuff like this.

No one knew these people previously exist because they're the ones you don't make friends with.

Freaks, you meant like a guy that would return used deodorant.

[masterhapposai]

Ok there Kevin Baker, lets look at the definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociopath

Sociopathy is a loosely-defined term that may be used to refer to:

* Psychopathy
* Antisocial personality disorder
* Dissocial personality disorder


Seems to be similar symptoms in each disorder, so I'll focus on the more popular "psychopath".


Common characteristics of those with psychopathy are:


Interestingly enough after reading it, I notice it's in fact Mr. Kevin Baker who more closely resembles a psychopath than the RFD'ers he specifically targetted.


* Grandiose sense of self-worth


Baker is a regular joe who writes financial posts.

HOWEVER, he seems to believe he has the responsibility of warning families of sociopathic visitors.

Grandiose sense of self-worth ? Check.


* Superficial charm


Baker sought the career of writing and studying English, to increase his charisma and charm.

Baker tries to charm his way into the hearts of retailers by noting "Wanted by Canadian retailers: copy editors who can think like sociopaths." with a forced attempt at humour.

Check.


* Criminal versatility


Baker exclaims, "If Cousin Riff or Aunt Shilona arrives for dinner in an overcoat lined with video games for the kids and lip balms for the grown-ups, watch them closely around the dogs and the good cutlery."

Baker clearly thinks about dogs being harmed and using cutlery in criminal ways often.

Check.


* Reckless disregard for the safety of self or others


By warning families to watch out for their own Aunt's & Uncles killing their dogs, Baker has recklessly distracted families from paying attention to more important things during christmas, such as being safe from non-fantasy threats.

Check.


* Impulse control problems
* Irresponsibility
* Inability to tolerate boredom
* Pathological narcissism
* Pathological lying
* Shallow affect
* Deceitfulness/manipulativeness
* Lack of empathy
* Lack of remorse, indifferent to or rationalizes having hurt or mistreated others
* A sense of extreme entitlement
* Lack of or diminished levels of anxiety/nervousness and other emotions
* Poor judgment, failure to learn from experience
* Lack of personal insight


Check them all. Baker passes as a sociopath with flying colours based on what we can learn about him from his article.

Sure, there are sociopathic people in society, but other than Baker and a few of the ACTUAL scammers on Redflagdeals who have stolen from people on the Buy/Sell/Trade threads, we haven't met too many.

If someone wants to just try to optimize a deal for themselves, who cares. Perhaps they have obsessive compulsive disorder like Mahjongmaniac, but that's not really a problem to society.

A problematic person in society would be one like Baker, who is distracting us from true sociopathic behaviour and true issues surrounding Christmas, such as the economy.

But, plain and simple this comment from Baker is plain insane:
So, beware. If Cousin Riff or Aunt Shilona arrives for dinner in an overcoat lined with video games for the kids and lip balms for the grown-ups, watch them closely around the dogs and the good cutlery.


Who the hell says that around this time of the year, when money for gifts is getting tight?

I sense a disturbed individual in Baker, someone who didn't receive many gifts as a child and wants to be accepted by his (likely) dead parents. Based on his focus of male names and stores (except for the strange Aunt Shilona? doesn't fit with Riff? possible slip on his side, I imagine Riff was added later to make it seem non-racially focused), it seems it was specifically his father figure who let him down.

Since Baker can't seek refuge in an older male close to him, he feels it's necessary to project violent situations upon other families and make them paranoid of receiving the gifts he never got.

Baker == Sociopath

[doylie]

Hahaha that gave me a good laugh ^

[Peckerwood]

Snip
Translation:

Baker is projecting

Gotcha :)

[manixc]

There's one thing I don't get.

If the Men's warehouse coupon already state "One Per Customer", then how did people used more than one coupons?

[cmge]

There's one thing I don't get.

If the Men's warehouse coupon already state "One Per Customer", then how did people used more than one coupons?

i think the old coupon didnt say i.. the new coupons do?

[manixc]

ah I see. thanks. cmge
then that's pretty stupid on the part of men's warehouse.

[1226]

Semantics aside, his point is valid. There are many jackass members (and lurkers) on these forums.

[almostfreeman]

Cancel my subscription. :lol:

[joeyjoejoe]

Im surprised they didnt mention Harvey's

I'm surprised they didn't mention the Loblaws $5 off seafood no minimum coupon a few years back.

I'll admit, my inner sociopath came out for that one!

[mt42]

Putting aside the obviously hypocritical comments of the FP writer, I think the real issue here is how the stores mentioned in the article chose to handle the situation.

Zellers put out a vague advertisement that was originally posted to this forum on Nov 26th. They had almost two weeks before the sale was scheduled to start to realize that their ad was vague and post a correction.

When Dec 6 came along, a number of creative people saw the thread and/or the ads in their paper and they managed to get a few games below cost on the first day of the "sale". At that point, Zellers once again had an opportunity to publish a correction notice to avoid any further impact. At the very minimum, local store staff that had experienced problems on the first day could have easily put up signs or properly directed people to the clearance bin with the "correct" titles.

Unfortunately (fortunately?), none of these things ever happened (or at least, they didn't happen very quickly) as there were still Zellers stores honoring the advertised price at the end of the week. The conspiracy theorist in me still wonders if Zellers did this on purpose to impact their competition (if that's the case and I'm a sociopath, I'm not sure what that would make them). Regardless of their intent, all of this could have been avoided by simply telling their staff that there was an error and posting a correction.

Since Zellers (and their competitors) continued to honour the deal over and over again, it's basic human nature and common sense to expect that others would feel they were entitled to the same pricing as the hundreds/thousands of people that had purchased before them and that's what really caused the RFD effect in this case. Let's face it, that huge 70+ page thread would stopped around page 2 or 3 if it was full of people saying "I was told it was an error and they had a notice up saying it was only for the games in that bin over by the cash". The trick here is that for every person that posted that they were turned down, there were several others that posted (and I'm sure dozens that didn't post) that were able to get the sale price.

With that in mind, it's no surprise that things snowballed the way they did. Afterall, if you're waiting in line and see the guy in front of you buy $120 worth of games for $30, would you question the sales rep about whether it was a price error and offer to pay full price or would you expect to pay the same discounted price for the two games you're holding?

For the most part, RFDers aren't sociopaths, they're just average people looking to get the best price. If a company advertises a sale with an incorrect price and repeatedly decides to honour the price even when they know it's incorrect, I don't see anything wrong with paying them the lower price.

As for the MWW deal, what do you expect when you put out a coupon that clearly states "Free Money" in big bold print?...Enough said.

[mcg]

Heh interesting read.

Who the **** does this guy think he is?

[LegiT]

Heh interesting read.

Who the **** does this guy think he is?

Probably missed one on one too many deals. j/king....

I merely despise those who purchase sale items in large quantities and leave nothing else for other RFDers, only to find the same items being sold on craigslist/kijji the same day.

[Spidey]

I take his term very offensive just because I like to get deals and save money. Like I'm such an awful person because I like to save some money on items I purchase.

Why I did get in on the Zellers deal and marks Deal, I don't think I overstepped my boundaries using them

I went to Zellers and asked the cashier first about the games, she asked her manager who said they were all valid. I didn't lie about the ad, it was right there, I didn't make up a story, I asked and they said yes. What was I supposed to do, say "Thats OK, Ill pay the full price of $60 a game instead of $15"

As for MWW, Ive used the coupons a few times at 2 different stores, but I think I'm done now as I don't need anything else. It was marks fault really for not making this harder to use. I boiught clearance clothes as well that were marked down, essentiually getting 2 shirts for free. Well they wanted to get rid of them anyway. I mean print out $10 basically, with no way for cashiers to keep track. How does one cashier know you've been there before her shift, etc.

Same as the free sock coupon from last week, it said buy "anything" So I went in and bought .40c ear plugs. It said anything, was just following the rules, didn't say in the fine print minimum $5 purchase or the like.

Plus with the MWW coupon I got all 4 of my secret Santa gifts next to nothing. The person who gets them is very happy, so what is she doesn't know I paid like .50 cents for a water bottle.

He says its such a big deal if all of a sudden your kid is getting a ton of video games from an uncle, etc because of this deal. The kid doesn't care. Is it because you have to spend a lot of money for a gift to mean anything

Same as the walmart dela with games for .93 cents. They scanned up at that price, no one went in and put new SKU stickers on it, no one tried to con Walmart, their system came up with that price when scanning. If I buyt those at that price, why am I in the wrong according to him

I'm searching for his email and sending him one about how offended I am from his article.

[ruhroh]

Spidey, don't forget to mention his previous article (http://www.financialpost.com/money/story.html?id=1039544) where he was completely prepared to lie to get his discount and call him a big fat hypocrite :lol:

[Spidey]

Spidey, don't forget to mention his previous article (http://www.financialpost.com/money/story.html?id=1039544) where he was completely prepared to lie to get his discount and call him a big fat hypocrite :lol:

I sent an email to the Post asking for his contact info. Something about his article really pissed me off, and reading his other article, he sounds like a hypocrite

[WontonTiger]

I follow the rules of the game. I see no ethical problem with this.
I'm infriging on no one's rights, and one might argue it is my right to buy something at the advertised price.

If I buy something below cost (that I would have bought at cost but not at retail), then the company is losing money, but I am gaining more than the company is losing. Keep in mind I have less money than the companies shareholders (higher marginal utility of money) and also pay less tax. Therefore it is increasing total utility.

I see nothing unjust about asking a company to honour an offer it made. If the offer was stupid, then it isn't my fault. People take bad offers all the time, on cars, on phone plans, on just about everything. Futureshop makes its money on monster cables and service plans. In this case, the companies are using poorly designed promotional strategies. That isn't my fault. Companies are happy to take advantage of poorly informed consumers. Companies have more responsiblity to be informed. I see no problem with taking advantage of their mistakes.

sociopath much?

Nonsense. Jeffery Dalmer killed people. That has no effect the ethicality of abusing the MWW promo. Neither does Walmart.

lol, so true:lol:

The author of this article is a shameful and ignorant being to compare 'us' (or anyone, for that matter, who desires a good deal) with 'sociopaths'! It is a daring remark - especially considering his 'sneakily' doing a 'deal' that he tells us he was not entitled to just the week before - and is meant to be nothing more than a combustible commentary. He is reprehensible in this comparison and reckless in his suggestions.

There is a type of people who deserve such a title, but to dare and lump a massive community (well, specifically targeting TWO communities) as such a behavioral type is a sad commentary. More that he is sad.....

Certainly there are folks (here?) who like nothing more than to brag shamelessly of their deceitful behavior in boldly scamming companies, but it IS relatively few and far between.

We obviously do not suffer from 'an antisocial disorder', as we wouldn't be here, uh... sharing; our 'social behavior' is not 'extremely abnormal' - we just aren't rolling in the big bucks like the CEO of ...say.... The Financial Post; and with the state of affairs these days, who isn't interested in their 'personal needs and desires'. However, it is not true to say everyone on RFD and SC (sh*t Baker, there ARE others too....) have 'zero concern for the effects of their behavior on others', and maybe he should spend a little more time on these sites reading OTHER THREADS before making any commentary at all. (Just wondering when was the last time he volunteered for anything? Made a donation? I know for a fact many on here do, and often.) OH, and I certainly hope he never tries to use a coupon.....

Meanwhile, while reading this post, and then the article, I alternated between shaking my head, nodding furiously, and laughing so hard I spit on the monitor.

Many of the concepts you mention are sociopathic. I won't comment on the author's hypocrisy, however I will say that he is largely correct. The only major mistake he makes, is to paint EVERY RFD MEMBER with the same brush.

I've noticed a large jump in sociopaths on this site in the last 6 months. People feel that since it was offered, no matter how morally objectionable, they are ENTITLED to have it. It's just more of the same, but the author is largely correct.

Everyone has a choice to purchase an item, you can't claim that the corporations FORCED you (the consumer) to purchase something, because they didn't. You were shamefully mind washed into believing you needed it, and that you had to have it. You are not entitled to anything.

Willfully setting out to defraud a company because you feel that they did the same to you is wrong. The fact that so many posters don't recognize what he says is just proof that there ARE MANY sociopaths among us.

At the risk of invoking reductio ad absurdum, I would like to make a few quick examples of how this actually is sociopathic. Saying "It's not my fault I'm taking advantage of their mistake by not wording the coupon properly/having staff who are more willing to enforce policy/etc" is like saying...

- "It's not my fault I broke into their house and stole their Xbox, they should've used a better quality lock on their window."

- "It's not my fault I t-boned that car while doing 60km over the speed limit through a red light, that person should have looked before they entered the intersection."

- "It's not my fault I touched that girl at the party inappropriately, she was dressed like a skank."

- "It's not my fault I burned down the house, my parents should never have left matches unattended."

Just because you can theoretically achieve something doesn't mean it's morally or ethically sound. Just sound food for thought.

I'm glad a few people here get it. It's funny how many people dance around the issue, without realizing their sociopathic tendencies.

It's not RFDs (or Ryan's) fault that this happened, it's just a commentary on our entire culture. Capitalism breeds sociopaths, I'm not surprised by this. It's the fact that people will do whatever they can to justify their sociopathic behaviour that really gets me. I have a feeling that this site will end up getting a bad reputation unless a lot of the fraud/coupon whoring is dealt with (which could be impossible).

This place used to be many people sharing deals, however now you have to jump so quickly, or some sociopath will beat you to the punch. Political discussions are tame compared to some of the outright fraud advocated on this site. Check up on people getting out of traffic tickets (in the motor vehicle section), and you'll find a whole other group of sociopaths.

The author is a hypocrite, but that doesn't mean he isn't right...

[haites]

hahaha that article had me cracking up because it's TRUE! That man is getting a positive email from me.

[brunes]

I've noticed a large jump in sociopaths on this site in the last 6 months. People feel that since it was offered, no matter how morally objectionable, they are ENTITLED to have it. It's just more of the same, but the author is largely correct.


I think you really ar emisreading most people if this is what you honestly believe.

The actual trendis NOT socipathic. The ACTUAL trend is more like "OK, they said they offer this, I will see if it is correct". If anything, it is testing a hypothesis. And most RFDers, if they test something and the retailer does NOT agree, just drops it there.

Take as a perfect example, the CONSTANT Staples.ca pricing errors. Every time there is one it is posted here. Every time a whole bunch of people try to order it - but if you look att he comments, no one EVER expects to actually get the item. Everytone expects the order to be cancelled. We are just TESTING to SEE if we can get the deal. If we do, AWESOME!. if we don't oh well. Not many RFDers bother arguing with the company over an obvious mispritnt.

As for the Marks coupon - well, IMO that is totally fair game. They even said it was free money - there was even a TV commercial encouraging the use of it. I don't see why anyone would feel need for justification of using it. Marks could turn away any customer at any time for any reason they choose.

[doctorgonzo]

One word, big hoarders!! The 82 video games made me sick reading it on rfd. I stopped reading after that. I mean if I got the deal max I'll probably buy would be like 4 but god 82 is just sickening!!

Stupidity and greed are on a sliding scale.

You're sickened by 82 - some of us are sickened by your 4.

[blainehamilton]

LOL. My wife WAS RIGHT all along...


In any case, all of our friends and relatives put up with our sociopathic ways since we always seem to get them such great deals on stuff...



Oh, and they are confusing sociopaths with fleebayers and profiteers. 1 copy of a game is ok. 2 to 5 is ok for trade ins. 5 to 20 is getting a bit excessive.

82 = someone not concerned with the community of rfd.

[WontonTiger]

I think you really ar emisreading most people if this is what you honestly believe.

The actual trendis NOT socipathic. The ACTUAL trend is more like "OK, they said they offer this, I will see if it is correct". If anything, it is testing a hypothesis. And most RFDers, if they test something and the retailer does NOT agree, just drops it there.

Take as a perfect example, the CONSTANT Staples.ca pricing errors. Every time there is one it is posted here. Every time a whole bunch of people try to order it - but if you look att he comments, no one EVER expects to actually get the item. Everytone expects the order to be cancelled. We are just TESTING to SEE if we can get the deal. If we do, AWESOME!. if we don't oh well. Not many RFDers bother arguing with the company over an obvious mispritnt.

As for the Marks coupon - well, IMO that is totally fair game. They even said it was free money - there was even a TV commercial encouraging the use of it. I don't see why anyone would feel need for justification of using it. Marks could turn away any customer at any time for any reason they choose.

I agree with you. The majority of posters are not sociopaths, however there are a fair number on this site. There is always someone who will take it too far, and setup some scheme to make out the best. There are also the people who act nice online, but are complete tools in store (making life hellish for the staff).

In regard to the Mark's coupon, the issue isn't it's use, it's the ABUSE that is the problem. If you clearly understand the coupon to be a single use, yet you then continue using (more than once), and figure out a way to personally justify it (ethically speaking), then you are a sociopath. What's so hard to get.

[evozero]

The characterization of the sociopath he makes is accurate, but only for a certain percentage of total members. Painting everyone here with the same brush stroke is an inaccurate generalization that does not do justice to the broad range of individuals a site like this attracts. Being a smart consumer does not make you a sociopath, nor does seeking the opinions of educated consumers to seek the best purchasing decisions.

The douchebaggery of hoarders that exists here is a problem every anonymous internet group has, though it takes on different forms elsewhere. People are able to hide behind an avatar and codename (or are simply completely anonymous) with no real accountability for their actions. For some people this means they take full advantage of whatever comes along while others are more resonable and ethical. Most people don't see anonymity as a free pass to practice questionable behaviour, so for this journalist to single out redflagdeals for an internet/societal-wide problem seems a little short sighted.

[vipt2000]

I read quickly through this thread. I would not characterized myself or people here as socialpaths. We are all sucker for good deal even if we don't need them. I sometimes buy stuff that I might not need. I am getting better through.... I didn't even buy a single thing during the Dell Days of Deals.

btw, if the whole marketing fiasco by MWW can be stopped if the company just cancel the coupons or issue error notice or simply just issue another coupon with a new term like buy $20 and get $10 off. A lot of price errors are issue for correction all the time by other stores.

Most of the items at MWW are overprice in the first place. Remember Canadian Tires own MWW and you all know what their prices are.

About the guy that bought 80 games under cost. I suspect that he is not an average RFDer. He is making $$$ from resell them. I guess if he own a business or store then he is definely a good bussiness man. Buying goods at lower cost and selling them for profit. Please note that I am calling him a good businessman here instead of socialpaths.

I guess my point is that if a business find way to be profitable then as capitalist country, investors (us) will buy their stocks. BUT if you are only an individual (that doing the same thing) then we called you a SOCIALPATHS.

[natural_spring_water]

how did he / she manage to buy 82 Games?

But honestly, if Zellers put that deal on...if someone from RFD doesn't take 82 games, someone else eventually will...that's like at least $3000+ worth of profit right there. Someone will end up doing it, it's more than a month worth of salary for some.

In fact, I notice that in Pacific Mall, there are tons of quake wars, the club PS3 games in every single game store (they sell it for like $30), and they probably got a boat load from EB Games for $10 (which is what is selling as). I talked with one of the owner, and it turns out, they just hire / pay some people to buy them from other retail stores anyways when there is a hot deal. (since profit margin is low according to them). I assume some of the gears of war 2 headed that way as well...during that time.

My point is, Zeller is a business, they made a mistake, they should pay for it, how else would they learn? it's only fair in my opinion.

If such a stupid mistake can be made, such a business entity shouldn't even survive. It would only be right if people take advantage of such deals.

[ssainani]

My point is, Zeller is a business, they made a mistake, they should pay for it, how else would they learn? it's only fair in my opinion.

i believe it's comments like these which makes me feel the article is correct.

are the losers on this message board the enforcers now?

[DaVibe]

i believe it's comments like these which makes me feel the article is correct.

are the losers on this message board the enforcers now?

Agreed. "Make Them Pay" ... what kind of idiotic statement is that?
Most of the world does not think like this, just for clarification.

I take his term very offensive just because I like to get deals and save money. Like I'm such an awful person because I like to save some money on items I purchase.



You said it ... not me ;)

Anyways, the article is not talking about the thousands that benefit from this website and are reasonable.
It's talking about the hundreds that stand out as complete morons and hoard, re-sell, cheat, lie or do anything to stay on top.
"Giving it to the man" is probably what you'll hear a lot of out of these ones people. A lot of it.

[Spidey]

Agreed. "Make Them Pay" ... what kind of idiotic statement is that?
Most of the world does not think like this, just for clarification.



You said it ... not me ;)

Anyways, the article is not talking about the thousands that benefit from this website and are reasonable.
It's talking about the hundreds that stand out as complete morons and hoard, re-sell, cheat, lie or do anything to stay on top.
"Giving it to the man" is probably what you'll hear a lot of out of these ones people. A lot of it.


The zellers and the marks coupon showed how low some people can be when it comes to this. 82 games, a guy that collapsed because the store stopped him from using the coupon anymore affter how many times.

On a side not, what about someone that just went to Zellerse and bought 2 games not knowing about the deal and it came up. Are they wrong for accepting the offer.

When I found out it was I think almost a week after it was on. I asked the teller if any game was 2 for $30, she said yes. She even asked the manager and the manager said yes. She then informed me that the manager the night before said that this deal wasnt valid. So as a cashier, sho is she to believe. I asked when I did it and bought 4 games, and had a cashier and manager say it was valid.

Of course if it was 40 games thats out hand I guess, but I bought mine to play, and not sell (in fact I havent even opned them yet, been to busy)

[LeeBoA]

-
Why are we psycopaths?

sociopaths not psychopaths

[red120]

I don't think the author of the article is wrong. Some of the "deals" that are exploited are obviously due to pricing error, etc.

Any small mom and pop store, or any manager in their right mind would not honor it. Supposedly, you lose "customer goodwill"? No, I don't think so - the kind of people who exploit deals and grab 80 new games due to poor wording are NOT your customer base anyways. Those are bad customers - you're more profitable without them.

Businesses don't exist to "pay" for their mistakes, and consumers don't exist to punish them. I think this is the kind of "I'm out to get you, you're out to get me" mentality that comes from people treating everything as a faceless entity.

[fenrus]

how about when ticketmaster sells out for an event in 10 seconds only to see them up for resale on the ticketmaster sister site?