Cooper Discoverer M+S tires- Do you recommend them?

[Rockstead]

I know nothing about tires, I'm about to buy a new Grand Caravan Mini-van and I was recommended these tires.

Can you vouch for them?

[DavidY]

http://www.apa.ca/template.asp?DocID=297

APA doesn't recommend Cooper tires in general due to safety recalls in the past. Cooper makes a lot of tires under different brands including Hercules, ATC and Dean. They also make the Arctic Claw TXI which I bought for my Mazda truck a month and half ago. For me, it's a studdable winter tire with severe snow rating (mountain with snow flake) at an entry level price. Looking back, I probably should have spent the extra 20% (about $100 and taxes) for a set of four Firestone Winterforce. The TXI isn't the worst tire that I have had....average at best.

One of my co-workers has the Cooper Discoverer M+S tires on his Ranger 4x4. No complaints so far.

What is the stock tire size including load rating on your new Grand Caravan? If it's 225/65R16, you may have a hard time finding winter tires. If you can downsize one rim size, then 225/70R15 is only 0.4% smaller than stock (check with your dealer...especially the brake caliper) or 215/75R15 (0.6% larger).

225/70R15 or 215/75R15: Firestone Winterforce UV, Michelin X-Ice, Bridgestone Blizzak DMZ3 (ranked from lowest to highest price)

Dave

[Pete_Coach]

Rockstead, here is my take on all this snow tire stuff. For every internet bad report there are at least equal number of good reports. For every good opinion there is one or more bad opinions. Marketing has burrowed itself into every aspect of tire rating (and other things). Each vehicle reacts differently with every different tire.
In my opinion, any snow tire in the winter is good. If you can afford these, then they are the best for you. Remember that they are winter tires and you need to take them off as soon as the weather warms up a bit. You will just wear the tread off. Go get them and happy motoring.

[Jucius Maximus]

M+S means Mud and Snow. This is not a real snow tire.

There is no real standard or test that tires must pass to have the M+S designation. They are not real winter tires, and most if not all all-season tires have the M+S Designation.

If you are looking for Winter Tires, first of all, good luck finding any this late in the game. I pre-ordered back in September. Most places are sold out now. Real Winter Tires have the Mountain and Snowflake symbol on them, and must actually pass tests before the emblem can be used.

[Sunney]

the cooper discoverer M+S do have the Mountain and Snowflake symbol on them. Im sure they are better than any all season tire for the winter.

[Canuck2fan]

I haven't used cooper discoverer tires but I did just get a set of their all season CS4's and they are fantastic. I have been out in dry, wet, ice and snow conditions with no issues for traction yet.

The website says the m+s provide excellent winter traction.
http://www.coopertires.com/Flash/index.aspx

[D-3vil]

The website says the m+s provide excellent winter traction.
http://www.coopertires.com/Flash/index.aspx
And why would they say otherwise if they expect to sell their product? Note below, M+S designation says absolutely nothing about the rubber compound used.

From http://auto.howstuffworks.com/tire3.htm
All-Season Tires with Mud and Snow Designation
If a tire has MS, M+S, M/S or M&S on it, then it meets the Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA) guidelines for a mud and snow tire. For a tire to receive the Mud and Snow designation, it must meet these geometric requirements (taken from the bulletin "RMA Snow Tire Definitions for Passenger and Light Truck (LT) Tires"):

1. New tire treads shall have multiple pockets or slots in at least one tread edge that meet the following dimensional requirements based on mold dimensions:
a. Extend toward the tread center at least 1/2 inch from the footprint edge, measured perpendicularly to the tread centerline.
b. A minimum cross-sectional width of 1/16 inch.
c. Edges of pockets or slots at angles between 35 and 90 degrees from the direction of travel.

2. The new tire tread contact surface void area will be a minimum of 25 percent based on mold dimensions.

The rough translation of this specification is that the tire must have a row of fairly big grooves that start at the edge of the tread and extend toward the center of the tire. Also, at least 25 percent of the surface area must be grooves.

The idea is to give the tread pattern enough void space so that it can bite through the snow and get traction. However, as you can see from the specification, there is no testing involved.

To address this shortcoming, the Rubber Manufacturers Association and the tire industry have agreed on a standard that does involve testing. The designation is called Severe Snow Use and has a specific icon (see image at right), which goes next to the M/S designation.

In order to meet this standard, tires must be tested using an American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) testing procedure described in "RMA Definition for Passenger and Light Truck Tires for use in Severe Snow Conditions":

Tires designed for use in severe snow conditions are recognized by manufacturers to attain a traction index equal to or greater than 110 compared to the ASTM E-1136 Standard Reference Test Tire when using the ASTM F-1805 snow traction test with equivalent percentage loads.

These tires, in addition to meeting the geometrical requirements for an M/S designation, are tested on snow using a standardized test procedure. They have to do better than the standard reference tire in order to meet the requirements for Severe Snow Use.

[Rockstead]

http://www.apa.ca/template.asp?DocID=297

APA doesn't recommend Cooper tires in general due to safety recalls in the past. Cooper makes a lot of tires under different brands including Hercules, ATC and Dean. They also make the Arctic Claw TXI which I bought for my Mazda truck a month and half ago. For me, it's a studdable winter tire with severe snow rating (mountain with snow flake) at an entry level price. Looking back, I probably should have spent the extra 20% (about $100 and taxes) for a set of four Firestone Winterforce. The TXI isn't the worst tire that I have had....average at best.

One of my co-workers has the Cooper Discoverer M+S tires on his Ranger 4x4. No complaints so far.

What is the stock tire size including load rating on your new Grand Caravan? If it's 225/65R16, you may have a hard time finding winter tires. If you can downsize one rim size, then 225/70R15 is only 0.4% smaller than stock (check with your dealer...especially the brake caliper) or 215/75R15 (0.6% larger).

225/70R15 or 215/75R15: Firestone Winterforce UV, Michelin X-Ice, Bridgestone Blizzak DMZ3 (ranked from lowest to highest price)

Dave

Thanks and you are right, the stock tire is 225/65R16, but Allen from Simply tire recommended 215/70r16.

[Rockstead]

Is there any difference in terms of performance using 215/70r16 instead of the 225/65R16 that is supposed ot be the size for this car?

[DavidY]

Is there any difference in terms of performance using 215/70r16 instead of the 225/65R16 that is supposed ot be the size for this car?

215/70R16 are 1.22% larger than stock. Rule of thumb is 2-3% max.

Speedo: 50mph (stock) = 50.61mph (215/70R16)
Odometer: 1000 miles (stock) = 987.84 miles (215/70R16)

Load rating for the two sizes are 99 or so....good to go. For winters, it's often recommended to go with a slightly narrower tire. If your stock tires are H-rated, then you should stick with H-rated winters if you drive on the hwy a lot. Q-rated winters are more suited for severe snow or areas where plowing is less frequent.

Dave

[Rockstead]

David,

Thanks, you really seem to know your stuff.


The tires are going to cost me aprox 780+ tax from Simply tire which includes Steel rims.

Would you recommend a different tire? I wouldn't mind spending a little more if it meant having a much better tire. Allen from Simply Tire says he loves these. I'm just a little hesitant for the Cooper Tire because they are very hard to find in Montreal, seems like only one dealer carries them and they are much more expensive here in Montreal then from Simply tire, so fi I ever need a replacement I don't want to be tied to expensive store here in Montreal.

Also, I'm in Quebec but I'll be buying these in Ontario, do you think that screws me for Warranty issues on the tire, like if I had a blow out due to a defect? COuld I just return them to another other cooper dealer..I'm guessing not.

[Rockstead]

I Spoke to Allan this morning, he said the Cooperstone does have the Severe Winter Icon on them.

He also told me the only other tire he liked better for the Grand Caravan was the Bridgestone Winterforce, but that they were nearly impossible to find and that even if I did, they are extremely loud tires but perform very well.

[Halifax55]

I just recently purchased used weather master cooper tires, they were used one season. They are great, happily recommend them. What a difference to my previous mud and snows...as said previously mud and snows are not snow tires...you need to see the snowflake symbol at the very least. Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow.

[DavidY]

I Spoke to Allan this morning, he said the Cooperstone does have the Severe Winter Icon on them.

He also told me the only other tire he liked better for the Grand Caravan was the Bridgestone Winterforce, but that they were nearly impossible to find and that even if I did, they are extremely loud tires but perform very well.

Actually, the Winterforce are branded by Firestone. :D I have also heard that they are quite loud. Bridgestone Blizzak DM-Z3 is available in this size, but is pricier. I would buy Winterforce over the Cooper Discoverer. Note that the Winterforce tires are directional. This means that when you rotate the tires, you can only move the rear right tire to the front right tire location (same for the left size).

Not all winter tires with the mountain snow flake are the same. I had a set of BFG AT KO tires (w/ mountain snow flake) for my compact truck (4x2), but got stuck about ten times last winter. Have cable chains for dire situations.

Dave