Parking ticket: Toronto's definition of "highway"

[BMWWW]

Good day everyone,

Just wanted to figure out what the Town of Richmond Hill defines "highway" as. I'm definitely going to court for this $30 ticket, as I park on this dead-end street once every 1-2 months when I go to my friend's place for party.

I'm guessing the owners of the house I park in front of is getting pissed, but its not their property, and I'm not going to get harassed every time I park there because I decide not to drive while under the influence.

Ticket was for "parking in excess of 3 hours" 1116-3.7.

And according to the Municipal code:

"for a period exceeding 3 hours at any time on any highway except between the hours of 5pm and midnight"

I got the ticket for parking between 10:00am-1:14pm

And for the record, here's the street. I choose to not park on the adjacent larger street, to avoid getting dinged up overnight by drunks and sloppy night-drivers.
Where I parked:
Dead end street: CLICK ME (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=82+Lagani+Avenue,+richmond+hill&sll=43.857601,-79.402345&sspn=0.00198,0.005515&ie=UTF8&ll=43.857817,-79.402249&spn=0.007922,0.022058&z=16&g=82+Lagani+Avenue,+richmond+hill&iwloc=addr)

Now that I look at the ticket, they wrote me up outside the wrong house.. I'm actually across from that large street that feeds into this side street. The address that coincides with the ticket:CLICK ME (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=72+Lagani+Avenue,+richmond+hill&sll=43.857817,-79.402249&sspn=0.007922,0.022058&g=72+Lagani+Avenue,+richmond+hill&ie=UTF8&ll=43.857647,-79.402764&spn=0.007922,0.022058&z=16&iwloc=addr)

I've got pictures of where my car was parked, but I'd still like to know the town's definition of a "highway".. as you can clearly sell, I'm not parked on a highway--by the definition I know.


Thanks!

[seftonm]

Look in the Ontario highway traffic act. In Manitoba, a highway is basically any place meant for driving a car other than parking lots and spaces.

[FazerRider]

OP, dude, you made a parking violation so you got a ticket. what is there to argue?

pay up and watch where you park next time. still i gotta give you credit for not going DUI. props.

[Shaner]

A highway is defined as the following:

“highway” includes a common and public highway, street, avenue, parkway, driveway, square, place, bridge, viaduct or trestle, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof; (“voie publique”)

That comes right from the HTA, which is the only definition that matters. Basically every public street is considered a highway. You're guilty man and I don't see any way out of it.

[Avatar]

Ya. Highway is not necessary means high speed motoway. It's basically any road/street. The only thing is to check if there's a 3 hours parking sign on that street. Not much you can do if that's the case.

[Sylvestre]

Ya. Highway is not necessary means high speed motoway. It's basically any road/street. The only thing is to check if there's a 3 hours parking sign on that street. Not much you can do if that's the case.

There doesn't *have* to be a sign installed specifically if there's a general law in place preventing parking on any street in excess of 3 hrs (which most places have).

[untaka]

Yeah in the East end I've noticed that gay rule about parking over night, its a real hassle since some of the new houses really barley even hold 2 cars, IMO we don't have that in Brampton and I've never seen any problems, and ITS BRAMPTON!

[BMWWW]

Guys,

I know that if that's the definition of a highway, I'm guilty.

My only knack with this situation is that this may be a regular thing as we party there FREQUENTLY. Out of necessity, I NEED to park 'somewhere', and I'll be damned if the owners keeps calling the town every time I decide to park after the hours of 12am (5pm-12am is exempt). This isn't a case where a parking officer decided to walk around ticketing people. This is a dead-end residential road, and someone, without a shadow-of-a-doubt, called the town on me.

Get where this is going?-- I'm deciding to not participate in JAMMING the main artery, while parking in a dead end road. The main reason for going is in hopes that I don't get harassed for the same thing over and over again, for doing something right..

ALTERNATIVELY, I can move the car down the street every 3 hours when I need to do so?


LMK what you guys think, cause this situation is beyond me now. Good guys never finish first?>:(

[BMWWW]

PS. Would the wrong address be the officer's way of telling me that he is obliged to give me a ticket he doesn't want to give?:idea:


Here's a link to the bylaw: http://code.municipalworld.com/richmondhill/1116.pdf
Its on the very end of page 10-11, section 1116.3.7 "n"

[ES_Revenge]

First off, as Shaner pointed out you are on a highway.

Secondly it seems that you really have no regard for city by-laws and think you should be able to do what you want just because you're you. :rolleyes:

and I'm not going to get harassed every time I park there
Out of necessity, I NEED to park 'somewhere', and I'll be damned if the owners keeps calling the town every time I decide to park
Emphasis added.

Just becuase you "decided" to park somewhere doesn't mean you're automatically allowed to park there, but that seems to escape you.

The reality is the law is the law (yes redundant but it seems like you need it explained to you). Do you know why/how by-laws like that exist? It's because property owners complain to their elected officials to have these rules to prevent people from doing exactly what the law proscribes. These laws usually don't come from nowhere at all. Yes they are revenue for the city but in your case (as you stated) you wouldn't normally get found/ticketed there if someone hadn't called parking enforcement on you. And someone did. That someone being a property owner that knows the law and knows you will get a ticket.

The fact that you are you and you "NEED" to park somewhere doesn't make the law any different. It still applies to you just like everyone else regardless of your needs. Now yes we know to you, you are the centre of the universe; but guess what? We don't care and neither does the law--it still applies to you.

You breaking a by-law and then calling getting a ticket for it, "harassment", makes it quite clear to me that you really think you should be able to park where you please because it's you and you need to do what you want and be free from this harassment (free from the requirements of the law).

Yes it's a "stupid by-law", yes it's "not a real law" but it certainly is real when you get a ticket for it, isn't it?

If you really disagree with the law that's fine too, but go complain to your city politicians about that. However given you're parking in an area that you don't even live in and probably don't own property in, I doubt you're going to have any large number of people supporting you on that one. And without having a lot of people to support you on that, they aren't going to change the law.

I'm really not usually one to tell people "hey pay your tickets", but if you go into court to fight your ticket with that^ attitude? Well you are gonna be paying your ticket, I'll tell you that much :lol: Now the technicality of the street address may get you out of it this time, but park there again and they probably won't make the same mistake.

In summary, no you're not getting "harassed" and you don't get to park where you want just because you are you and you need what you need. That's not how the law works.

[DrXenon]

My parents poured a concrete driveway in August and needed to park somewhere else while it dried/cured for 3 days. They contacted the town to get a temporary street parking permit; can't get that for more than 1 night. They contacted Hillcrest Mall, where they had shopped for 30 years, to see if they could leave the car in their empty parking lot, but they flatly refused. So they left it in front of the driveway on their low-traffic residential street. 3 tickets, over $200. If it had been during the snow removal season, that would be different, but these bloodsuckers are out to generate revenue all year long.

All of which is to say, you didn't necessarily get turned in by a resident; they seem to have people driving around all night.

[BMWWW]

FS Avenge,

Don't get me wrong, but I admitted to a wrong doing after the definition came up, and was no longer going to pursue in going to 'court'.

What I was seeking though, was for a viable option for the 'next' time. I'm sure you've participated in a dinner-party, lunch-party social before, and those can easily surpass a 3-hour limit. This 'parking on the public street' isn't a right, I know that, but its something that simply cannot be avoided--thus, I'm now seeking for an alternative option should driveway parking not be an option.

Would moving the car one house down or across the street eliminate this ticket?

[untaka]

First off, as Shaner pointed out you are on a highway.

Secondly it seems that you really have no regard for city by-laws and think you should be able to do what you want just because you're you. :rolleyes:



Emphasis added.

Just becuase you "decided" to park somewhere doesn't mean you're automatically allowed to park there, but that seems to escape you.

The reality is the law is the law (yes redundant but it seems like you need it explained to you). Do you know why/how by-laws like that exist? It's because property owners complain to their elected officials to have these rules to prevent people from doing exactly what the law proscribes. These laws usually don't come from nowhere at all. Yes they are revenue for the city but in your case (as you stated) you wouldn't normally get found/ticketed there if someone hadn't called parking enforcement on you. And someone did. That someone being a property owner that knows the law and knows you will get a ticket.

The fact that you are you and you "NEED" to park somewhere doesn't make the law any different. It still applies to you just like everyone else regardless of your needs. Now yes we know to you, you are the centre of the universe; but guess what? We don't care and neither does the law--it still applies to you.

You breaking a by-law and then calling getting a ticket for it, "harassment", makes it quite clear to me that you really think you should be able to park where you please because it's you and you need to do what you want and be free from this harassment (free from the requirements of the law).

Yes it's a "stupid by-law", yes it's "not a real law" but it certainly is real when you get a ticket for it, isn't it?

If you really disagree with the law that's fine too, but go complain to your city politicians about that. However given you're parking in an area that you don't even live in and probably don't own property in, I doubt you're going to have any large number of people supporting you on that one. And without having a lot of people to support you on that, they aren't going to change the law.

I'm really not usually one to tell people "hey pay your tickets", but if you go into court to fight your ticket with that^ attitude? Well you are gonna be paying your ticket, I'll tell you that much :lol: Now the technicality of the street address may get you out of it this time, but park there again and they probably won't make the same mistake.

In summary, no you're not getting "harassed" and you don't get to park where you want just because you are you and you need what you need. That's not how the law works.

wow, that post made you look bad man. He is raising the point asking for alternatives, I don't see how you missed that. If you lived in these areas you would see how stupid it is to have this bi-law. Also if residence of that area do not like it they should GTFO. Its public not private property, owned and operated the city they have no say. Parking a car there isn't causing any damage to their property or causing any issues. If they are that picky then honestly their holier then thou crap attitude trumps his attitude of frustration.

Yet then again why be reasonable and rationale and can slam someone by quoting the law. Maybe you are just one of those people that just accepts others telling them whats right and wrong and how you should live.

I'm with the OP on this one, its a major headache, and you are left with NO ALTERNATIVES. It is nothing more then a cash grab in my opinion.

[jason9945]

I went to a friends party in richmond hill last summer, he phoned in our plate numbers to the city so they wouldnt ticket us for parking overnight. That might be something to look into in the future.

Either way, you parked illegally,and they gave you a ticket. Get over it.

[ES_Revenge]

wow, that post made you look bad man.
:twisted:

If you lived in these areas you would see how stupid it is to have this bi-law. Also if residence of that area do not like it they should GTFO.
Though admittedly I did miss the part where OP was looking for alternatives or whatever, you seem to have missed my point completely, heh. I actually do see how the law is stupid and I do personally think it's stupid as well. But that's neither here nor there. It doesn't change the fact that it is the law. Say I go around killing people. Then when I'm eventually caught is it fair game for me to say "well I NEED to kill someone" or "these charges are are harassment!"? Does that somehow absolve me of punishment under the law? Of course not.

Though obviously parking a car on a street is not murder, it seems like I need that extreme example to make my point. For parking against the by-law you're going to get a ticket; for mudering against the law you're going to get put in jail. Neither of these are harassment and neither of them can be eliminated because any individual happens to think the laws are stupid or shouldn't be law. Doesn't matter what you think, doesn't matter what you imagine should and shouldn't be law. The law is the law! (I said it already!) Unless you can get the majority on your side of that thinking and make it an issue, the law is not going to change for you.

Its public not private property, owned and operated the city they have no say. Parking a car there isn't causing any damage to their property or causing any issues. If they are that picky then honestly their holier then thou crap attitude trumps his attitude of frustration.
Go back to what I said about how/why by-laws exist. The residents do not own the land, no. The city does, yes. But the residents DO have a say in the laws that affect that property around their homes.

It's not about "holier than thou" either. There are many cities that have laws against parking on the street overnight for more than x number of hours. I hardly think that the majority of people living in these cities all think they are "holier than thou". It's just the way it is, once more the law is the law.

Yet then again why be reasonable and rationale and can slam someone by quoting the law. Maybe you are just one of those people that just accepts others telling them whats right and wrong and how you should live.
I dunno, you're crazed or something :confused: I'm not telling anyone how they should live! I'm just telling you reality. Did I make the law? Did I enforce it? NO! BUT THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT IT IS THE LAW!!!

What do you want me to say? Oh lets all have cookies and talk about smiles and sunshine and how we should park where we want? Sure I could say that, but that wouldn't be reality would it? I think you should be able to park on the street at night too, and if someone parked in front of my house I'd be fine with it. But for the last time what you and I think isn't the issue here.

I'm with the OP on this one, its a major headache, and you are left with NO ALTERNATIVES. It is nothing more then a cash grab in my opinion.
So me stating reality, I look bad but you stating reality and then adding that you're "with the OP on this one" makes it all that much better. :rolleyes:

Sorry if the truth hurts but there it is. Breaking a by-law no matter how silly the law seems is still ticketable; and, if you get ticketed it's not harassment, it's what you got for breaking the by-law. There's an old saying--don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

[JAGpilot]

Tell them you intended to park there only for an hour or two but got drunk and was not able to move the car. Would they rather you drive drunk or leave it parked for the night??

[BMWWW]

I think calling in the plates, the day-of, is a viable option.

Can you guys give me a more specific name/department to google/call?-- I'm not familiar with who's-who in these circumstances.

Cheers!

[Jon Lai]

So your friend doesn't have a driveway? The houses in those areas have huge driveways that can fit at least 4 cars.

[Dustbunny]

If it helps I can tell you parking on the street I live on, even for 5 minutes will get you a $75 ticket and the residents don't have to call as it's regularly monitored. Call it what you want, it's the way it is and the residents themselves lobbied to get it put in place (even though personally I think it stinks and is inconvenient, I got outvoted). In places like this you usually have a couple of options, one is the municipality sometimes issues 'visitor' passes (to the homeowners) to allow for say 2 extra cars on the street. Those passes are good for a year and the resident keeps them to give to their visitors when needed. Those passes are left on the rearview mirror or you get a ticket. Believe me they don't miss a trick here. I got ticketed once while just running in to get the pass (because I don't usually park out front) and I live here and am more entitled (IMO) than anyone else to park there especially for a whole 3 minutes while I get the pass to my car. For other occasions we (the homeowners) can call the city parking authority and get a more flexible 'permit' which is valid for a specific date. That would cover things like parties, moving, etc. They are all free, but you have to have things like that sorted with the parking authority before you need it or your guests will get tickets. For the most part they will allow for parties and such as long as they aren't a regular occurrence. It depends on the area.

It's up to your friend to arrange that sort of thing as they are the resident having the party. As a guest, you have no say at all with the authorities. If your friend doesn't or can't get permits, then you have to make other arrangements for your car, take a cab or whatever. You can go move your car every 3 hours if that is the parking limit where you park but you need to move it enough so there is no question. If you move it a couple of feet that may not be enough to stop a ticket. The reality is if there is no parking, there is no parking and either you park and get a ticket, or you find another way to get there. If your friend won't find ways for their guests to park without tickets, maybe you start turning down their invitations until they can find a way to make it less expensive to be at their place.

[Nikita]

Guys,

I know that if that's the definition of a highway, I'm guilty.

My only knack with this situation is that this may be a regular thing as we party there FREQUENTLY. Out of necessity, I NEED to park 'somewhere', and I'll be damned if the owners keeps calling the town every time I decide to park after the hours of 12am (5pm-12am is exempt). This isn't a case where a parking officer decided to walk around ticketing people. This is a dead-end residential road, and someone, without a shadow-of-a-doubt, called the town on me.

Get where this is going?-- I'm deciding to not participate in JAMMING the main artery, while parking in a dead end road. The main reason for going is in hopes that I don't get harassed for the same thing over and over again, for doing something right..

ALTERNATIVELY, I can move the car down the street every 3 hours when I need to do so?


LMK what you guys think, cause this situation is beyond me now. Good guys never finish first?>:(

LOL...I'd love to be in a courtroom to hear you plead your 'necessity' to park there so you can party regularly. I'm sure the JPs sympathy will be palpable. I'm really not ragging on you about that, and doubt you'd actually argue that, just comes across funny.

Anyway, you keep saying you have no choice, you NEED to park, there is no place else....but in fact in your first post you say:

I choose to not park on the adjacent larger street, to avoid getting dinged up overnight by drunks and sloppy night-drivers.

You DO have elsewhere to park, you just don't like it. Lots of laws force us to do what we don't want to do or don't like to do, but, sorry, that's just not a good enough reason.

And if you're going to move the car every three hours, which IS about your only option if you insist on parking on that street, be sure it's a different spot altogether (not just moved up a few feet) and, if you want to continue to be 'the good guy' yet not finish last, better be sure you haven't been drinking when you move it.

PS. Would the wrong address be the officer's way of telling me that he is obliged to give me a ticket he doesn't want to give?:idea:

Here's a link to the bylaw: http://code.municipalworld.com/richmondhill/1116.pdf
Its on the very end of page 10-11, section 1116.3.7 "n"

Umm...no...you're SOL on that one, that's an amendable error. Doesn't even matter what the cop wanted to do or not.

FS Avenge,

Don't get me wrong, but I admitted to a wrong doing after the definition came up, and was no longer going to pursue in going to 'court'.

What I was seeking though, was for a viable option for the 'next' time. I'm sure you've participated in a dinner-party, lunch-party social before, and those can easily surpass a 3-hour limit. This 'parking on the public street' isn't a right, I know that, but its something that simply cannot be avoided--thus, I'm now seeking for an alternative option should driveway parking not be an option.

Would moving the car one house down or across the street eliminate this ticket?

The only viable option that's acceptable to me when one is going out partying and planning to drink is to take a taxi. Too many people drive drunk because they make that decision when their judgment is already clouded by drink and they're sure they only had a couple beers and sure they're not drunk. Leave the car at home and you won't be tempted, won't have to make a judgment call when you're judgment is off, and won't have to move your car every 3 hours when you've likely been drinking.

But then, that's just my personal opinion and I'm sure you're not interested in that. So /rant.:)

[ygtgxi]

put it in the system

toronto has a huge backlog

win for sure

[Whitedart]

put it in the system

toronto has a huge backlog

win for sure

Toronto may have a huge backlog, but the ticket was issued in Richmond Hill which may not have a huge backlog.

[ImJJ]

I have to disagree with whoever said "just pay up..."blah blah blah

2 weeks ago I parked in a plaza and went in a restaurant in that same plaza to have dinner...

Dinner was great and all that...but when we finished me and my friends got ticketed 30 dollars and the ticket said the parking spots were for customers...

OK...so we parked the car in that plaza and had dinner in one of the restaurants there, how am I NOT a customer and deserve a ticket...

So should I just "pay up" b/c some parking enforcement officer were trying to get his/her end of month quota??

[mmhassa2]

I have to disagree with whoever said "just pay up..."blah blah blah

2 weeks ago I parked in a plaza and went in a restaurant in that same plaza to have dinner...

Dinner was great and all that...but when we finished me and my friends got ticketed 30 dollars and the ticket said the parking spots were for customers...

OK...so we parked the car in that plaza and had dinner in one of the restaurants there, how am I NOT a customer and deserve a ticket...

So should I just "pay up" b/c some parking enforcement officer were trying to get his/her end of month quota??

Your and Op's situations are totally different. LOL :lol: You can fight your case as you did not deserve the ticket but OP wants to fight it because he/she feels he/she NEEDED to park there versus drinking and driving even though a car there could only be parked for 3 hours.

[BMWWW]

Since the past few posts have NOT helped further this thread, I feel like I need to repeat myself once again, for those that decide to throw their $0.02 because they 'feel the need to', and because they're 'entitled to their opinion':

I'm looking for alternatives. If you have read the thread a bit more carefully, you would've figured that out.

If you're not offering an alternative, please don't feel the need to 'contribute' further.

Thanks.;)

[watching]

wow, that post made you look bad man. He is raising the point asking for alternatives, I don't see how you missed that. If you lived in these areas you would see how stupid it is to have this bi-law.

:lol: That post was logical, reasonable and pointed out the OP's blatant disregard for municipal laws, which you obviously share.

Also if residence of that area do not like it they should GTFO. Its public not private property, owned and operated the city they have no say.

uhhhh, yes, residents DO have a say, they pay taxes, they own property in the area, they certainly have more say about what happens on their streets than someone who not only doesn't live in the area, but blatantly disregards the laws.


Parking a car there isn't causing any damage to their property or causing any issues. If they are that picky then honestly their holier then thou crap attitude trumps his attitude of frustration.

Scrapping all those no parking laws would create chaos for residents who live in the area, traffic control, EMS vehicles, fire engines - the reasons why parking is restricted aren't to inconvenience you or the OP. :lol:

[watching]

Since the past few posts have NOT helped further this thread, I feel like I need to repeat myself once again, for those that decide to throw their $0.02 because they 'feel the need to', and because they're 'entitled to their opinion':

I'm looking for alternatives. If you have read the thread a bit more carefully, you would've figured that out.

If you're not offering an alternative, please don't feel the need to 'contribute' further.

Thanks.;)

Your first post was asking for the definition of "highway". Then you proceeded to whine about getting a parking ticket.

Call the City and ask for alternatives to your parking problems. That way you can be assured that should you follow its directives, you won't be receiving another parking ticket.:idea:

[Whitedart]

Your first post was asking for the definition of "highway". Then you proceeded to whine about getting a parking ticket.

Yes, and covered. Ontario municpalities uses the Hightway Traffic Act definition of a highway.

I'm looking for alternatives. If you have read the thread a bit more carefully, you would've figured that out.



park on the driveway
park on the apron - paved boulevard between the sidewalk and curb
park on another neighbour's driveway, with their permission
have the property owner call the city/town and ask about a parking exemption for the evening
park on another street
have someone else drop you off and pick you up
take a taxi or bus

[canadien99]

FS Avenge,

Don't get me wrong, but I admitted to a wrong doing after the definition came up, and was no longer going to pursue in going to 'court'.

What I was seeking though, was for a viable option for the 'next' time. I'm sure you've participated in a dinner-party, lunch-party social before, and those can easily surpass a 3-hour limit. This 'parking on the public street' isn't a right, I know that, but its something that simply cannot be avoided--thus, I'm now seeking for an alternative option should driveway parking not be an option.

Would moving the car one house down or across the street eliminate this ticket?

Well, if you're a nice guy, i would knock on some guys door who seems to have parking space and say "Yo ! The name is Bob, yo... I plan to party here, and hoping i could borrow your driveway temporarily between this hr and this hr... here's some CROWN ROYAL for your troubles".

I'd say Deal Concluded. Of course, you may wish to word it differently in your own charm.

[canadien99]

Tell them you intended to park there only for an hour or two but got drunk and was not able to move the car. Would they rather you drive drunk or leave it parked for the night??

Two thumbs up !

[canadien99]

Since the past few posts have NOT helped further this thread, I feel like I need to repeat myself once again, for those that decide to throw their $0.02 because they 'feel the need to', and because they're 'entitled to their opinion':

I'm looking for alternatives. If you have read the thread a bit more carefully, you would've figured that out.

If you're not offering an alternative, please don't feel the need to 'contribute' further.

Thanks.;)

Bus, Taxi ...

If it makes you feel any better, i got a stupid ticket for parking on the side of the street of my very own home !! I had relatives over so the parking lot was full.

Fought it and won ... but still, it was a hassle. There weren't many practical alternatives there.

Well, another alternative ...

Park on your friend's home's lawn... but i still think getting to know one of the neighbours of your friend, and then making some kind of deal will probably be the best way to go.

Tell your friend to be nicer to neighbours... and then see if their neighbours will be willing to spare their driveway as an overflow.

If you knock on enough doors, i'm sure there will be a "Good neighbour".

Of course, ensure you have "Crown Royales" in your hand as you knock them doors.

:lol: