High quality Biz cards in the GTA

[mikeycanuk]

I'm looking for high quality business cards. I also need them designed as well. I'm sick of having cheap looking cards. Staples are too generic looking IMO.

[matdwyer]

I'm looking for high quality business cards. I also need them designed as well. I'm sick of having cheap looking cards. Staples are too generic looking IMO.

Post all your info on here, post a price you're willing to pay, and let some of the designers here take a shot (I don't have time, but I'm sure some will). Then get it printed online (vistaprint, 5000cards.com, etc)

[confused student]

I can give it a try

[sonypcs]

go Vistaprint.ca

They are doing free shipping with orders $ 35 above

[confused student]

go Vistaprint.ca

They are doing free shipping with orders $ 35 above

1) 8 pt stock, I use 14 pt
2) Digital printing, I use offset
3) Cut to smaller size to allow bleed, I use proper sized cards
4) No coatings included, I do AQ coating on both sides
5) Single sided printing based on their templates, I do custom design full-colour on both sides

[Bincent]

1) 8 pt stock, I use 14 pt
2) Digital printing, I use offset
3) Cut to smaller size to allow bleed, I use proper sized cards
4) No coatings included, I do AQ coating on both sides
5) Single sided printing based on their templates, I do custom design full-colour on both sides

I'm interested in getting some cards designed and printed as well.

confused student, do you do this on the side? What are your rates and where are you located?

[matdwyer]

1) 8 pt stock, I use 14 pt
2) Digital printing, I use offset
3) Cut to smaller size to allow bleed, I use proper sized cards
4) No coatings included, I do AQ coating on both sides
5) Single sided printing based on their templates, I do custom design full-colour on both sides

You are very misinformed with Vistaprint...

1) You can upgrade to 100lb stock easily
2) You're way off here - "VistaPrint produces 80 percent of its orders on offset presses at its manufacturing plants in Venlo, The Netherlands and Windsor, Ontario. The multinational print provider does not outsource its work." Not only that, but did you attend printworld 08? You should have been at the HP booth - I can guarantee that you weren't able to tell the difference between the samples they have that were Digital and Offset.
3) yes slightly smaller
4) With these options you're looking at 3-4 times the price of Vistaprint
5) Not sure what you mean for this... its not difficult to do 4/4 on vistaprint? very easy in fact.

[sharkyJay]

5) Does vista print let you upload your own designs in pdf, ai, or psd files? I think they would. He's saying that Vistaprint doesn't. Don't know too much about Vista Print but last time I dealt with them, about 3-4 years ago i wasn't happy.

I get my stuff done in China. If done here it would cost probably a dollar a card.


5) Not sure what you mean for this... its not difficult to do 4/4 on vistaprint? very easy in fact.

[matdwyer]

You certainly can upload with your own file types....

Also I had issues with one of my cards one time, and they printed another 1000 no questions asked, with a new design, shipping them express. I was very pleased.

[confused student]

You are very misinformed with Vistaprint...

1) You can upgrade to 100lb stock easily
2) You're way off here - "VistaPrint produces 80 percent of its orders on offset presses at its manufacturing plants in Venlo, The Netherlands and Windsor, Ontario. The multinational print provider does not outsource its work." Not only that, but did you attend printworld 08? You should have been at the HP booth - I can guarantee that you weren't able to tell the difference between the samples they have that were Digital and Offset.
3) yes slightly smaller
4) With these options you're looking at 3-4 times the price of Vistaprint
5) Not sure what you mean for this... its not difficult to do 4/4 on vistaprint? very easy in fact.
1) How much does it cost? And 100 lb tag stock is only 7.4 pt. Their 80pt is 6.2 pt. If they run cover, 80 lb is 9.5 pt and 100 lb is 11 pt. So, 14 pt is still better either way.
2) Hmm, they used to be Digital, or my FTA instructor lied. (I'm Flexo certified but sell Offset :lol:) I've gone on a tour of a facility that did flexo/offset/digital, and I was impressed by the small footprint of the Digital press (HP) and the quality, but Offset is still considered better.
3) I've ordered from VistaPrint, and it is small, not very much smaller, but when comparing you see the difference.
4) Not really.
5) Yes, but the cost is outrageous.

Lets compare my pricing for 5000 4/4 AQ coating cards to theirs, based on pricing for using their templates or my free design offering
Me - $160 plus GST/PST. Free courier shipping within Canada.
Vista US - $125.96 US plus Shipping, Gloss is Front only, and I could only pick Gloss or 100 lb
Vista CA - $143.96 plus GST/PST and Shipping, Gloss is Front only, and I could only pick Gloss or 100 lb
Vistaprint is still a thinner paper and coating on one side only. Vista also doesn't send a PDF proof, it costs extra for someone to click "Export" "Save" then "E-mail".

[matdwyer]

1) How much does it cost? And 100 lb tag stock is only 7.4 pt. Their 80pt is 6.2 pt. If they run cover, 80 lb is 9.5 pt and 100 lb is 11 pt. So, 14 pt is still better either way.
2) Hmm, they used to be Digital, or my FTA instructor lied. (I'm Flexo certified but sell Offset :lol:) I've gone on a tour of a facility that did flexo/offset/digital, and I was impressed by the small footprint of the Digital press (HP) and the quality, but Offset is still considered better.
3) I've ordered from VistaPrint, and it is small, not very much smaller, but when comparing you see the difference.
4) Not really.
5) Yes, but the cost is outrageous.

Lets compare my pricing for 5000 4/4 AQ coating cards to theirs, based on pricing for using their templates or my free design offering
Me - $160 plus GST/PST. Free courier shipping within Canada.
Vista US - $125.96 US plus Shipping, Gloss is Front only, and I could only pick Gloss or 100 lb
Vista CA - $143.96 plus GST/PST and Shipping, Gloss is Front only, and I could only pick Gloss or 100 lb
Vistaprint is still a thinner paper and coating on one side only. Vista also doesn't send a PDF proof, it costs extra for someone to click "Export" "Save" then "E-mail".

I'm impressed - you initially sounded like a typical "designer" who knows nothing about the print side of things - but I stand corrected.

If we're talking price, 5000cards.com has you beat by a mile, although trade only (maybe thats where you're getting it from). I have no idea how they do what they do so cheap, but 14pt 5000 4/4 AQ both sides 95 bright is $65USD. They had a booth at printworld as well, and run heidelberg presses (and workflow).

As far as vistaprint and offset, they are doing so well because they have crazy proprietary job planning software so they can get the absolutely best layout for their plates - almost everything is automated. I would assume the proof is just to make more money (and really, do you need a proof of the file you just submitted? For larger run jobs absolutely, but when you're printing 1000 business cards, can't you just check things yourself? Thats what I do :lol:

Good thread though :-)

[confused student]

I'm impressed - you initially sounded like a typical "designer" who knows nothing about the print side of things - but I stand corrected.

If we're talking price, 5000cards.com has you beat by a mile, although trade only (maybe thats where you're getting it from). I have no idea how they do what they do so cheap, but 14pt 5000 4/4 AQ both sides 95 bright is $65USD. They had a booth at printworld as well, and run heidelberg presses (and workflow).

As far as vistaprint and offset, they are doing so well because they have crazy proprietary job planning software so they can get the absolutely best layout for their plates - almost everything is automated. I would assume the proof is just to make more money (and really, do you need a proof of the file you just submitted? For larger run jobs absolutely, but when you're printing 1000 business cards, can't you just check things yourself? Thats what I do :lol:

Good thread though :-)
Thank you :) I did 3 years of Flexo in high school, know some design, some print (and have experience on a narrow-web in-line 4 colour flexo press), some pre-press, got my FTA Level 1 and do design to make a few dollars here and there. I do get the printing from 5000cards.com :lol: . Although I'm looking for another print shop to do letterhead, envelopes, etc. Would be nice to expand to other than business cards and postcards. Theres a company in this office building, but they're in a small 2-room office and probably also use 5000cards.com and some other shops, so I can't really go to them. Perhaps I should go talk to that teacher and ask for some phone numbers, or to look through his directory of print shops.

The proof isn't needed, but it's nice to have to show what will be printed (if I screw anything up, I rarely do, but it does happen from time to time). I just had a look at the US pricing on 5000cards.com, hmm, wow, cheap.

[matdwyer]

Thank you :) I did 3 years of Flexo in high school, know some design, some print (and have experience on a narrow-web in-line 4 colour flexo press), some pre-press, got my FTA Level 1 and do design to make a few dollars here and there. I do get the printing from 5000cards.com :lol: . Although I'm looking for another print shop to do letterhead, envelopes, etc. Would be nice to expand to other than business cards and postcards. Theres a company in this office building, but they're in a small 2-room office and probably also use 5000cards.com and some other shops, so I can't really go to them. Perhaps I should go talk to that teacher and ask for some phone numbers, or to look through his directory of print shops.

The proof isn't needed, but it's nice to have to show what will be printed (if I screw anything up, I rarely do, but it does happen from time to time). I just had a look at the US pricing on 5000cards.com, hmm, wow, cheap.

Yeah, I had some choice words when they wouldn't let me order from their US site and ship to my US address :lol:

We just had 4000 envelopes done by Royal Envelope, so you might want to check them out. Not sure how their pricing is as they were a donation. http://royalenvelope.com/

As far as letterhead, I would first attempt to go with a smaller place running a medium sized digital press... even some of the shops downtown can do a good job for fairly cheap (I've had great experiences haggling down their pricing)

P.s. - Gordon Graydon I'm assuming? I wish my high school had flexo class :twisted:

[confused student]

P.s. - Gordon Graydon I'm assuming? I wish my high school had flexo class :twisted:Yeah, its a great class, but a lot of it you learn yourself

[imie]

confused student :)

is 5000 your minimum? what about 500?

[confused student]

confused student :)

is 5000 your minimum? what about 500?
Could do 1,000 but the costs are higher for small quantities.
$100 for 1000 or $160 for 5000. 500, if you like I could do the design and find a company that can print them.

[fantom]

Doesn't anyone bother doing small runs of like 300-500 business cards anymore?

I was looking to get a smaller number like that done, and pretty much gave up (due to either a minimum of 1,000 or ridiculous price of $100+ for it), until I ran into www.print100.com

$30 gets me 300 quality business cards, printed in Hong Kong and delivered by Fedex to my door for free! (included in the price)

Hard to beat those guys in price...

What I'd be interested in is anyone doing those mini-card prints (I think they're half the size of the regular biz cards) or the transparent/plastic cards - again, smaller quantities, as I really have no need for 1,000 of these...

[matdwyer]

Seriously, if you only have 250 or 500 go to a smaller print shop with a digital press - the ones downtown all compete against each other and you will get insane prices if you barter a bit... thats only like 15-20 sheets for them, so its all profit anyway :lol:

[fantom]

Seriously, if you only have 250 or 500 go to a smaller print shop with a digital press - the ones downtown all compete against each other and you will get insane prices if you barter a bit... thats only like 15-20 sheets for them, so its all profit anyway :lol:

what if I don't want digital print... but offset instead, cuz most of the digital printed cards I've seen are pure doo-doo compared to offset...

[nornet]

There's a high end printer in the Mississauga/Oakville area http://www.gfxinc.com

[matdwyer]

what if I don't want digital print... but offset instead, cuz most of the digital printed cards I've seen are pure doo-doo compared to offset...

Do you understand how much work goes into the make ready stage of an offset press?

They have to change inks, plates, paper, etc. This would likely take like 20-30 minutes.

And your 300 cards would take all of 30 seconds to print.

So if you really want to pay for that, then be my guest. But if you want to pay reasonable prices you'll go digitial.

[fantom]

Do you understand how much work goes into the make ready stage of an offset press?

They have to change inks, plates, paper, etc. This would likely take like 20-30 minutes.

And your 300 cards would take all of 30 seconds to print.

So if you really want to pay for that, then be my guest. But if you want to pay reasonable prices you'll go digitial.

I do want to pay reasonable prices, but apparently printers like that don't want to accept my $50 for 20-30 minutes of work...

I don't mind paying $40-50 for a small quantity, and I understand that they'd rather go through that bit of trouble for a larger sum (hence the minimum being $100 for whatever amount of cards, as printing them and cutting them is the least of their worries and the least amount of effort goes into it), but hey, if you don't want to make $50 in 20 mins of work, I don't wanna be talking to you in the first place...

[matdwyer]

I do want to pay reasonable prices, but apparently printers like that don't want to accept my $50 for 20-30 minutes of work...

I don't mind paying $40-50 for a small quantity, and I understand that they'd rather go through that bit of trouble for a larger sum (hence the minimum being $100 for whatever amount of cards, as printing them and cutting them is the least of their worries and the least amount of effort goes into it), but hey, if you don't want to make $50 in 20 mins of work, I don't wanna be talking to you in the first place...

The minimum that a press and press operator will bill for is $200-$250 an hour.

A press can cost a million dollars - do you really think they value their time at 100/hour? Thats 208,000 per press based on 8 hours a day, minus the salary of the operator ($60,000), minus the expenses (say $120,000) and you're left with a VERY small piece of the pie.

You're expectations are unrealistic for offset, which I told you. Digital machines are FAR cheaper (say 25-75 grand for alright ones) and can be operated by almost anyone - no set up, $10/hour employee, and you get a cheaper product.

New digital machines provide quality that rivals offset, as I mentioned above from HP @ printword.

[JGirl_11]

This thread is a bit like reading a different language! I have many questions.


Thanks to the person who posted vistaprints and 5000cards.com.

Can someone explain in lay terms what the different options are for the business cards? I'm looking at 5000cards.com
What is 4/4, what is 16.5pt versus 14pt, is matte laminated = glossy, what is PMS colour and when would I want to add it?

I have a card design that I want to print. It's full colour. The front is mainly black and red with white text and should be glossy. I need to write on the back, which can be grayscale. Price is a factor.

Can someone advise on my best options and parameters? Thank you kindly!

[matdwyer]

Can someone explain in lay terms what the different options are for the business cards? I'm looking at 5000cards.com
What is 4/4, what is 16.5pt versus 14pt, is matte laminated = glossy, what is PMS colour and when would I want to add it?

4/4 means full colour both sides.
4/0 means full colour on the front
4/1 means full colour on the front, 1 colour on the back
(4 refers to CMYK, Cyan Magenta Yellow Black, the four colours that make up all the other colours)

16.5pt and 14pt refers to the weight (thickness, stiffness) of the paper.

PMS colour is if you want a specific ink to be used - you wont want this.

Matte finish is not glossy.

I have a card design that I want to print. It's full colour. The front is mainly black and red with white text and should be glossy. I need to write on the back, which can be grayscale. Price is a factor.

Can someone advise on my best options and parameters? Thank you kindly!

Unfortunately 5000cards.com DOES NOT sell directly to the consumer. I posted it more in relation to a print broker.

They ONLY sell to print brokers, i.e. you have to have a pst number and convince them you are a graphic designer :twisted:

Your best for writing on the back is a matte finish, although watch which coatings go on - some might not be written easily. http://www.print100.com will likely be your better bet if you have the time to wait.

[JGirl_11]

Thank you for the explanations, matdwyer. I'll keep your suggestions in mind!

Unfortunately time is a factor with cards running low. I think I'll check out mayaland.ca, which was mentioned in another business card thread here.

[fantom]

The minimum that a press and press operator will bill for is $200-$250 an hour.

A press can cost a million dollars - do you really think they value their time at 100/hour? Thats 208,000 per press based on 8 hours a day, minus the salary of the operator ($60,000), minus the expenses (say $120,000) and you're left with a VERY small piece of the pie.

You're expectations are unrealistic for offset, which I told you. Digital machines are FAR cheaper (say 25-75 grand for alright ones) and can be operated by almost anyone - no set up, $10/hour employee, and you get a cheaper product.

New digital machines provide quality that rivals offset, as I mentioned above from HP @ printword.

a-ha... that explains it a bit more.

and yes, my expectations were a bit unrealistic, you're right... I guess I am slowly seeing the light ;)

and if digital machines are matching the quality of offset, I'm all in... how do we know which ones are up to par, and if the printers are using those? because I've seen some atrocious digitally printed cards that people have had to send back and ask for their money back...

[matdwyer]

a-ha... that explains it a bit more.

and yes, my expectations were a bit unrealistic, you're right... I guess I am slowly seeing the light ;)

and if digital machines are matching the quality of offset, I'm all in... how do we know which ones are up to par, and if the printers are using those? because I've seen some atrocious digitally printed cards that people have had to send back and ask for their money back...

Simple - ask for samples first :D

[Drew_W]

overnightprints.com is fairly inexpensive, that is, if you can have it shipped to the States and pickup from there. UPS Ground + brokerage kills the deal to Canada, as do the high priced Express options.