I just received an unjustified negative feedback from a user name Ahdum

[Sgt_Strider]

This thing is turning out to be a nightmare. I just received my first negative feedback on RFD and Heatware for no good reason. I feel like I need to get my story out to get more of the mods attention and maybe as a warning to other sellers.

Couple of days ago I received a PM from someone named ahdum. He told me he was interested in my Canon 17-40mm f/4 L lens. So we talked and agreed on a price. Originally he asked for $600 shipped and that was also my selling price, so essentially free shipping. I told him it was unacceptable and that he needs to pay for shipping. I told him on a compromise that I can do. He pays $15 and I'll cover the rest.

The first problem started when he sent me a paypal payment. I noticed that paypal was going to charge me $18 for that payment. I thought it was kind of weird because I warned the buyer about those charges. I told him that he either covers that $18 charge or he will need to make a new payment using an instant transfer from his bank account. So I cancelled the first payment and got him to make a new payment. In response he told me that I had not warned him early enough before he makes the payment. Ok, so if that was his defence, why didn't he get all of the facts before he goes out to make a payment? How is it really last minute? I didn't even know when he was going to make a payment to me. I never set aside a time when I was expecting a payment. Nonetheless, I thought it was just a misunderstanding and tried not to make a big deal over. Then I checked RFD couple of hours later and he accused me of taking his money and not responding to his PM. I was furious. I told him that I was at school and I cannot possibly check 24/7 to see if I get a new PM. I tried my very best to respond to everyone of his PMs in a timely manner.

Originally ahdumb wanted me to ship the item out on the same day that he paid me, but I told him that I was very busy at UBC and that it was not possible to ship out on that day. Later on October 29th, ahdum PMed me and requested that I ship the item out to him by the morning of the 30th. I responded by saying that I cannot promise to ship the item out by the morning of the 30th, but I will definitely ship it out before the day was over. I'm not sure how he misunderstood that because he claims I delayed shipping the item out to him. I made it absolutely clear in the PM that I can't promise him that. I did kept my word by getting the item shipped out before the day was over. I PMed him shortly after I return from the post office at around 9 PM PST with the tracking number. Then he responded in kind by giving me a negative feedback on RFD and Heatware. In effect he ruined my perfect positive record for no good reason.

Now, I want to address another one of his comments and reason for the negative feedback. He claims that I failed to cover the fee as agreed. How did I failed to cover the fee as agreed? He paid me $615 to ship the item with xpresspost which I did. Essentially it broke down to $15 shipping for him. I also paid extra for insurance on the lens and the signature requirement. In total I paid $38.39 at the post office. So that means another $23.39 came out of my pocket. I was angry at the negative feedback and told him what I did for him. In regards to the $18 that he mentioned in the comments. That was the fee Paypal was going to charge me because he wanted to use a credit card to finance the payment. I told him not to do that and just use a bank transfer. He told me not to fight over $18. So ok, let's not fight over it and ahdum should pay for it. I don't see anything wrong with what I said. Obviously as a seller I don't want to pay for any unnecessary fees and I think it's within my right to ask him to cover it especially if he said that it was not worth fighting for. He added the quotes in there and you guys can see for yourself.

The second part is the delay in shipment. I've already addressed that. I don't see how I failed to live up to my words. I never made any promises to ship it out by the morning. I'm a full time student and have lots of things to do. He knows that. He called me a "kid" and that I was playing with words. Really? How am I playing with words here? I was blatantly clear about what I can do and what I can't do. Also because I go to university and that makes me a kid? So I made a firm response on my own. I find it absolutely ridiculous that he accuses me of having attitude when it was him that initiated the whole accusation game. First it was about me taking the money and ignoring him and then about the delay in shipping. I don't think I did anything wrong here.

The consequence and tragedy stemming from this is that I got a negative feedback. Some of you may think what's the big deal all about. Well I'm sure some of you know. There are a lot of scammers and shady dealers out there. These positive feedbacks are what gives people the ability to trust in me and to make deals with me. With an unjustified negative feedback appearing on both RFD and Heatware, he has effectively hurt my reputation. I'm not so sure how this will effect me in the future. Look, if I had made a mistake, I would have acknowledge it and not go to the great lengths that I did so far. I've contacted a few mods on RFD and Heatware to try to get this matter cleared up. To me it's completely unjustified. I also have all of the PMs saved to prove my point. I just hope he doesn't try to pull anymore stunts on me.

Here is the link to his negative comments about me which are completely baseless: http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/itrader_detail.php?ir=28295&u=7705

So hopefully more mods will see this and help me out.

[Mark099]

The details of his comments can only be seen by you. Unfortunately, because you completed the transaction he has the right to leave any type of feedback he wants -- justified or not. I feel for you, but unless you can get him to contact the mods to retract his negative feedback I doubt there is anything you can do.

The thing that you should have done was to keep rejecting/refunding his Paypal payment until he sent you the right amount. If you have not shipped the camera, you can still refund the payment and essentially cancel the deal and have the feedback removed. If you have already shipped the camera, then withdraw the funds right away from your Paypal account and take your lumps.

[Sgt_Strider]

The details of his comments can only be seen by you. Unfortunately, because you completed the transaction he has the right to leave any type of feedback he wants -- justified or not. I feel for you, but unless you can get him to contact the mods to retract his negative feedback I doubt there is anything you can do.

He has not even received the package yet and he has already given me a negative feedback.

The thing that you should have done was to keep rejecting/refunding his Paypal payment until he sent you the right amount. If you have not shipped the camera, you can still refund the payment and essentially cancel the deal and have the feedback removed. If you have already shipped the camera, then withdraw the funds right away from your Paypal account and take your lumps.

I didn't ship the item out until he sent me a second payment using an instant transfer from his bank account. I did reject his first payment financed using his credit card.

[Sgt_Strider]

Mark,

Here are the comments that he put for my negative feedback:

1. failed to cover fee as agreed

- will you do $600cdn paypal'd and shipped Xpresspost (ahdum)

- the best compromise that I can do will be if you add another $15 and I'll cover everything else (Sgt_Strider)

- i have specifically told you that 615 "PAYPAL'd" and u agreed with it, and at the very last moment you telling me to send it just so u can get it for free?
i just think it's really stupid for fighting over a $18 if i can make that difference. (ahdum)

- If you don't think $18 is a big deal then why don't you cover it? (Sgt_Strider)


2. delay shipping with playing words

**28hr after payment received**.

- hey, have you ship the item yet? i'm still waiting for your update and tracking number. (ahdum)

- No I haven't. It'll be shipped out before today is over. I'm heading home from school in an hour to ship it out.
You should check the previous PMs that I have sent to you. I never promise that I would ship it out by the morning. I only promise that it should be shipped out by today. (Sgt_Strider)

- oh sure, what can you expect from a kid playing with his word. (ahdum)

- Then I guess this kid is a lot smarter than you. Perhaps you might want to consider taking some English courses then? Learn how to read. I never broke my words. I have all of my PMs saved from our conversations. (Sgt_Strider)

**shipment were made 33hrs after payment**

I wish this help giving you an idea of his attitude as a seller.

There should be protection and prevention from people for abusing the system.

[da_hool]

I don't want to make any assumptions so correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds like nothing was specified about the terms of the PayPal transfer (credit card vs bank transfer), and only that $615 was mutally agreed upon to be transfered via PayPal.

If this was the case, I tend to agree that the seller should eat the cost. But I also think that upon realizing the fees, that it was reasonable to ask the buyer to use bank transfer to complete the transaction, but that if the buyer declined then the seller should humbly learn from the mistake and eat the associated fees.

[Mark099]

Credit card or not, you would be paying Paypal fees unless they have changed their maximum recently or have some kind of promo running. Whenever doing a deal and a buyer even mentions Paypal, I will automatically give them two prices....

e.g. $105 shipped via Paypal or $100 shipped via EMT.

On the bright side... his negative comments were for you not wanting Paypal and taking a whole 33 hours to ship (instead of 33 minutes). Those are easily explained away. Plus, you have a longer trading history than most. I am sure you'll be fine.

[Sgt_Strider]

I don't want to make any assumptions so correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds like nothing was specified about the terms of the PayPal transfer (credit card vs bank transfer), and only that $615 was mutally agreed upon to be transfered via PayPal.

I thought I mentioned it in the first post. I did told him not to use a credit card to finance the paypal transfer. He told me in the PM that he wanted to use a credit card to finance the paypal payment so he can earn points.

If this was the case, I tend to agree that the seller should eat the cost. But I also think that upon realizing the fees, that it was reasonable to ask the buyer to use bank transfer to complete the transaction, but that if the buyer declined then the seller should humbly learn from the mistake and eat the associated fees.

He doesn't have to pay any fees. Ahdumb could have just paid me right from the get-go with an instant transfer from his paypal account and no one would have to pay any extra fees. Why whould I have to absorb the $18 just because he wanted to use his credit card? If he doesn't want to fight over it and told me it was not a big deal then he should absorb the cost. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. How I can be at fault for that is beyond me. Also, I've paid an extra $23 just go ship this item to that guy with Xpresspost. I think I was pretty damn nice to him.

RFD needs to something about this. How can they allow someone to give an unjustified negative feedback when the seller did not break any promises? There has to be some sort of policy to deal with people that decides to abuse the system. I don't see anything wrong with giving negative feedbacks if promises were broken and lies were made, but in this case, I made no lies and did not break any promises!

[Sgt_Strider]

Credit card or not, you would be paying Paypal fees unless they have changed their maximum recently or have some kind of promo running. Whenever doing a deal and a buyer even mentions Paypal, I will automatically give them two prices....

e.g. $105 shipped via Paypal or $100 shipped via EMT.

Mark, I told him how much it should cost to ship to the guy. I was absolutely clear about it. I am always clear when it comes to explaining to the buyer how much it cost to sell the item to them and how much it would cost to ship. I will also mention any extra fees they would need to cover should I be slapped with them. In this case, I was extremely clear and it was his lack of ability to understand plain and simple English. I feel like I should publish every single PM in this thread right now.

On the bright side... his negative comments were for you not wanting Paypal and taking a whole 33 hours to ship (instead of 33 minutes). Those are easily explained away. Plus, you have a longer trading history than most. I am sure you'll be fine.

Mark, how can he give me a negative feedback for something that I never promise him? I never agreed or promise him that I would ship it out by morning. How can I possibly be at fault for that? He knows that I am at UBC and I can't possibly attend to all of his needs on a 24/7 basis. I fully realize I am a longer trading history than most people, but I'm angry that he seemed to have abused the system. Heatware have a way to get some problematic feedback removed and I sure hope RFD can do something about this.

Seriously, if you think that I did something wrong, then please tell me cuz I feel like I'm going crazy here over this. I even paid an extra $23 out of my own pocket to ship with xpresspost to this guy. I feel like I've done all that I could have to satisfy this guy and yet he still gives me a negative feedback. WTF!

[thechampion116]

I'm on the seller's side here.

The first part of the feedback was the $615 agreement and the buyer should know about the transaction fees of Paypal before even making a deal using it therefore he should have made it 18 instead of 15.

For the shipping part, its clearly stated by the seller that he would ship it by the day's end and not in the morning.

Basically it comes down to the seller trying to get everything his way and done at his time when its the buyer thats doing all the work to ship it out and the negative feedback was uncalled for at the moment because the item hasn't arrived yet.

I would send negative feedback back to ahdumb or neutral feedback with something mentioned 'review Paypal fees before dealing with' or something along those lines to warn future people.

[Mark099]

I understand your point of view, however, the buyer had different expectations. Whether they were reasonable or not, he is still entitled to have them. Unfortunately for you, the guy is a jerk and you are stuck with an unwarranted negative evaluation.

[Sgt_Strider]

I'm on the seller's side here.

The first part of the feedback was the $615 agreement and the buyer should know about the transaction fees of Paypal before even making a deal using it therefore he should have made it 18 instead of 15.

For the shipping part, its clearly stated by the seller that he would ship it by the day's end and not in the morning.

Basically it comes down to the seller trying to get everything his way and done at his time when its the buyer thats doing all the work to ship it out and the negative feedback was uncalled for at the moment because the item hasn't arrived yet.

I would send negative feedback back to ahdumb or neutral feedback with something mentioned 'review Paypal fees before dealing with' or something along those lines to warn future people.

I did gave him negative feedback. It's amazing how he claims that I have shown attitude throughout this whole transaction. It was him who first accused me of taking his money and not responding to his PM. I have never seen anything like this before. When I first read that PM, I was like WTF.

[belowzeros]

He doesn't have to pay any fees. Ahdumb could have just paid me right from the get-go with an instant transfer from his paypal account and no one would have to pay any extra fees. Why whould I have to absorb the $18 just because he wanted to use his credit card?


That's not how it works, anytime you receive money via paypal you have to give them a cut. I don't believe the origin of the funds matters whether cc or balance on account.

[Sgt_Strider]

I understand your point of view, however, the buyer had different expectations. Whether they were reasonable or not, he is still entitled to have them.

You're right about that.


Unfortunately for you, the guy is a jerk and you are stuck with an unwarranted negative evaluation.

What I don't like is how he can use the system to his liking. Negative reviews should only be used within reason. I feel like as if the mods won't do anything to clear this matter up. Why is it that Heatware gives an opportunity to get a problematic review to be removed and RFD doesn't?

Maybe I should publish this guy's name and info or something. I think other sellers need to be aware of this guy. I can't say that he won't try to screw another guy over in the future again.

[Sgt_Strider]

That's not how it works, anytime you receive money via paypal you have to give them a cut. I don't believe the origin of the funds matters whether cc or balance on account.

I hate to say it, but you're wrong. The second time he made a payment, the money entered my account without any extra fees. Paypal didn't charge me a dime for that.

[Mark099]

What I don't like is how he can use the system to his liking. Negative reviews should only be used within reason. I feel like as if the mods won't do anything to clear this matter up. Why is it that Heatware gives an opportunity to get a problematic review to be removed and RFD doesn't?

Maybe I should publish this guy's name and info or something. I think other sellers need to be aware of this guy. I can't say that he won't try to screw another guy over in the future again.

Heatware would not remove his evaluation because you would have an opportunity to add a comment below it. Heatware and RFD will remove feedback if there is no transaction or at the request of the person leaving the feedback.

The primary issue is that you completed the transaction with the guy. Right or wrong, he is entitled to give you feedback based on his expectations.

[Sgt_Strider]

Heatware would not remove his evaluation because you would have an opportunity to add a comment below it. Heatware and RFD will remove feedback if there is no transaction or at the request of the person leaving the feedback.

The primary issue is that you completed the transaction with the guy. Right or wrong, he is entitled to give you feedback based on his expectations.

So in other words, I'm screwed?

[Mark099]

So in other words, I'm screwed?


Considering the nature of his complaints, I would not say your screwed. You have a minor inconvenience that may require an explanation or two to future buyers. Realistically, however, you should be fine.

[Sgt_Strider]

Considering the nature of his complaints, I would not say your screwed. You have a minor inconvenience that may require an explanation or two to future buyers. Realistically, however, you should be fine.

After what you have said, I think it's not worth putting my perfect Heatware record on my sig. Guess I'll have to embrace 33-0-1 for life.

[Mark099]

After what you have said, I think it's not worth putting my perfect Heatware record on my sig. Guess I'll have to embrace 33-0-1 for life.

Again, I wouldn't worry about it. It's not the type of negative evaluation that would worry most buyers.

[belowzeros]

I hate to say it, but you're wrong. The second time he made a payment, the money entered my account without any extra fees. Paypal didn't charge me a dime for that.


It's good to know, I've used paypal since it started and I honestly never knew that. I guess I was so used to getting CC payments I never noticed the difference. ty for the info

[Sgt_Strider]

I just want to post an update to this story as I knew there will be a happy ending and good guys will win at the end of the day. Basically I got both my negative feedbacks at Heatware and RFD to be removed. Yes, I know that Mark099 have said Heat doesn't remove negative feedback, but I've managed to convinced them with plenty of evidence to support my case. It took a long time, but I'm relieved that I've cleared my name. When Heat finally agreed to hear my case and remove his false accusations, I felt vindicated. Should I bother PMing ahdum to tell him that I won? :lol: ;) :cheesygri

[Mark099]

Sometimes it's okay to be wrong! :cheesygri

[bpopd]

I did gave him negative feedback. It's amazing how he claims that I have shown attitude throughout this whole transaction. It was him who first accused me of taking his money and not responding to his PM. I have never seen anything like this before. When I first read that PM, I was like WTF.

Wow, ahdum seems like a total jerk, I'll make sure to never deal with this guy. Some people in this world just use their emotions to determine their actions, gotta stay away from these people, sometimes they are just a bit wack. From what I can tell, your methods of contacting the buyer are rather good.

Congrats on getting everything settled. Next time however, choose your buyers...

[Sgt_Strider]

Sometimes it's okay to be wrong! :cheesygri

;)

Mark, I think you should hide your Heat info and just make it available by request. The case of Heat removing the negative feedback was probably one of those once in a lifetime opportunity. The system can easily be abused by people and there's little to no recourse. I'm not going to publicize my Heat record anymore because of this incident.

Wow, ahdum seems like a total jerk, I'll make sure to never deal with this guy. Some people in this world just use their emotions to determine their actions, gotta stay away from these people, sometimes they are just a bit wack. From what I can tell, your methods of contacting the buyer are rather good.

Congrats on getting everything settled. Next time however, choose your buyers...

He seemed like a nice guy when he first PM me. The problem didn't start until he paid me. Everything went downhill afterward. I learned a lesson here, but it's hard to scrutinize someone considering he doesn't have much of a record here. Not to mention that I even shipped the item out to him with xpresspost and everything. I gave him such excellent CS and he repaid with nothing but trouble. I could have just shipped it with regular if I knew he was going to pull off such a stunt on me.

I think RFD should create a list of problematic buyers. I have Ahdum's (aka Adam Fok) contact information that I can provide. This guy should be banned for creating those trouble for me.

[nuropa]

It's good to know, I've used paypal since it started and I honestly never knew that. I guess I was so used to getting CC payments I never noticed the difference. ty for the info

it depends on the type of paypal account you have. https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees-outside&countries=CA

[HowEver]

Glad it all worked out, and thanks for sharing these details as the story will serve to instruct others: to be careful, to document transactions, and to be fair.

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[Sgt_Strider]

Glad it all worked out, and thanks for sharing these details as the story will serve to instruct others: to be careful, to document transactions, and to be fair.

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Yes and I should propose to the mods that there should be a list of shady buyers/sellers.

[phomp]

Yes and I should propose to the mods that there should be a list of shady buyers/sellers.

The problem is that it is way to much work to manage.

When dealing online, all you can do is take steps to be careful and that is it.

[skewed]

Yes and I should propose to the mods that there should be a list of shady buyers/sellers.

There is a list. Forums->Scammers and Warnings->Search.

Whenever I deal with someone on RFD, I check their feedback and do a search within this subsection.

[phomp]

There is a list. Forums->Scammers and Warnings->Search.

Whenever I deal with someone on RFD, I check their feedback and do a search within this subsection.

Exactly

[Sgt_Strider]

There is a list. Forums->Scammers and Warnings->Search.

Whenever I deal with someone on RFD, I check their feedback and do a search within this subsection.

I don't think he had any feedbacks at the time I made the transaction with him. There's a difference between a scammer and a *******. I don't really want to get too much into it as my first post pretty much sums it all up. I just hope this thread didn't pissed off the mods.