Is your water tank rental?

[rdx]

I kept getting letters from Reliance sent to a person does not exist in my address (Brand new house). (Note: There were a dozen of them when I first opened my mailbox)

So, I finally called them up and checked why they kept sending letters to my address. And according to their record, the water tank in my location is rental and I am supposed to take over the bill once I moved in !!! But no one (builder) told me anything about taking over it.

Is it normal practice from every builder to rent the water tank? Does this happen to you guys? I am just wondering what would happen if I never call them, and keep returning or ignoring the letters they sent to the person does not exist (probably whatever name the builder gave them, they don't even have the first name or postal code the letter)

[issy]

good morning RDX


With your purchase agreement of the house , their is an attachment saying
that the water heater is rental, unless you have purchase it outright or
installed your own water heater. This is usually how its done with the builder.

Usually , the builder has an agreement with the water heater company, and yes their do get a cut from them for using or having their equipment installed.

what does it say's on the front of the water heater?

issy

[rdx]

good morning RDX


With your purchase agreement of the house , their is an attachment saying
that the water heater is rental, unless you have purchase it outright or
installed your own water heater. This is usually how its done with the builder.

Usually , the builder has an agreement with the water heater company, and yes their do get a cut from them for using or having their equipment installed.

what does it say's on the front of the water heater?

issy

A couple questions:

1) So, what if I never call them and keep ignoring those letters attn to someone I don't know. How are they going to collect money?

2) Should I buy the water tank? or it is a commom practice to rent it ? Actually, I don't like where the water tank is located right now, can I ask them to move it?

And what about the furnace installed by the builder? Is it a rental as well???

[Frankie3s]

This is a classic gouge by most if not all home builders and they usually tell you about this at the end when you are just about to buy the place. I hate it and the buy out of the hot water tank is expensive in the first year.

I bought mine out after the second year because I got tired of the constant increases (yearly). A tip for anyone buying a new home, knock off at least another $1200 for getting jammed up in this.

[buddhababy]

This is a classic gouge by most if not all home builders and they usually tell you about this at the end when you are just about to buy the place. I hate it and the buy out of the hot water tank is expensive in the first year.

I bought mine out after the second year because I got tired of the constant increases (yearly). A tip for anyone buying a new home, knock off at least another $1200 for getting jammed up in this.

It cost $1200 to buy it out from the rental company??

I want to buy my own and have it installed - wouldn't that be cheaper? (Anyone know how I go about this?)

[sensfan67]

Most of people think they will not stay long enough to recuperate costs of installing themselves. When I moved in I bought off water heater (almost 4 yr old) from rental company and they charged me $960. I stayed in this house for 3 and half year and now I am thinking of sellling it.

Hopefully new owner will appreciate not having to pay rental fees every month.

BTW water heater's average life is more than 10 years and if you plan to stay for more than 5 years you will even out.

[buyways]

1) So, what if I never call them and keep ignoring those letters attn to someone I don't know. How are they going to collect money?

You should check your purchase-and-sale agreement with the builder to see a) whether your purchase included the heater and, if not, b) you agreed to assume the rental payments.

re: misnamed letters - I'd think they need to give you a way of paying them, and letters to your house but addressed to someone else don't IMO really cut it- are you supposed to open someone else's mail? OTOH, maybe the law would say you have to make reasonable efforts to pay for the rental of a tank you "know" you did not buy

If you do have that assumption-of-rental clause in your purchase contract, and if the water tank people have a contract with the builder, the water tank people might have a right to collect from the builder who could then collect from you. The water rental people might even be able to put a lien on your property (I'm really not sure about that, but maybe...)

Might be worth a call to the lawyer who handled your purchase. g. luck.

[issy]

good afternoon RDX once more

answers to your question:

1) So, what if I never call them and keep ignoring those letters attn to someone I don't know. How are they going to collect money?

YES THEIR CAN SEND AN COLLECTION AGENCY TO COLLECT FOR THE WATER TANK....OR HAVE A LEAN AGAINST YOR PROPERTY


2) Should I buy the water tank? or it is a commom practice to rent it ? Actually, I don't like where the water tank is located right now, can I ask them to move it?

By renting the equipment if does cost you much more , but you have the peace of mind that if it breaks down you are covered for replacement of parts or new water tank.
to break the agreement its not worthed i think ?

3) And what about the furnace installed by the builder?

Usually the furnace is own by you ?

Please contact the builder and check yor agreement of purchase ?
did you not get a lawyer to check yor agreement of purchase ?

ooooops , it seems you are the second owner of the house .....am i correct ???
if so then you are stuck with the previous owners agreement of the agreement with RELIANCE ..

i am totally surprise , yor estate agent or lawyer did not point this out to you

Issy

[confused student]

If you purchased from a builder:
Check your agreement of purchase and sale for any reference to renting the tank.

If purchased from someone else:
Check the agreement of purchase and sale, on the OREA or TREB form it should be under "Rental Items".

If it isn't listed, call Reliance, tell them that you never agreed to rent the tank and that under the CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT, you are not obligated to pay for unsolicited goods and/or services. They will schedule a time for the tank to be removed.

[Ockham]

Does any other province rent water tanks, besides Ontario?

[zoolander]

I'm six years into a new home.
Where is a good place to buy a water tank for a family of 3 soon to be 4?
After the new one is installed, can I take the old tank to Reliance and avoid the disconnect fee?

[audit13]

I'm six years into a new home.
Where is a good place to buy a water tank for a family of 3 soon to be 4?
After the new one is installed, can I take the old tank to Reliance and avoid the disconnect fee?

Are you going with a tank or tankless? I had tanks my entire life and decided to go tankless in 2006. My cousin installed a tankless Bosch and I couldn't be happier.

If you decide to go tankless, search the RFD forums and you'll find some very informative discussion threads.

[Potsman]

Does any other province rent water tanks, besides Ontario?

Yes.. Québec.. I was looking for a house when I moved here last year. (New construction co's such as Birgil, Junic etc all have these as standard in the sale agreements) If I recall, the rental price was about $9.00 per month for hot water and $23.00 monthly for the furnace. The outright purchase for both at the time of sale was around $4200.00.

For me, I did not buy one of these homes, but I was close and I would have purchased it outright in a minute as I try to avoid renting anything. My opinion is these are brand new covered by warranty anyways and you should get at least 15 years out of both. In addition, it will add resale to your home.

[JWL]

Renting is way more expensive. Just do the math.

Buy this from HD for $550 and have someone install it for $250 = $800
http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=903007&Ntt=903007&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=112188&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

It has a 12 year warranty. That works out to less than $6/month for 12 years under warranty.

Or rent it for 12 years at $20 per month and spend $2,880 over 12 years. Pretty expensive for the "peace of mind" from renting.

Your costs may vary, but the outcome will not.

[buyways]

Renting is way more expensive. Just do the math.

Buy this from HD for $550 and have someone install it for $250 = $800
http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=903007&Ntt=903007&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=112188&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber

It has a 12 year warranty. That works out to less than $6/month for 12 years under warranty.

Or rent it for 12 years at $20 per month and spend $2,880 over 12 years. Pretty expensive for the "peace of mind" from renting.

Your costs may vary, but the outcome will not.

I agree that it's probably cheaper to buy in most cases, but the cost difference is not quite that large:

- For a 40gallon tank as linked to, rental is more like $12/mo.
- Labour is not covered under the purchase warranty. If you accept Ontario DirectEnergy's claim of 3 service calls per heater lifetime, you will have some labour costs.

http://www.directenergy.com/EN/Ontario/RES/Pages/WHS/BenefitsOfRenting.aspx

[aple]

all about the convenience for me...

tanks already in the basement, no need to do anything..

[Bookpreviews]

This is a classic gouge by most if not all home builders and they usually tell you about this at the end when you are just about to buy the place. I hate it and the buy out of the hot water tank is expensive in the first year.

I bought mine out after the second year because I got tired of the constant increases (yearly). A tip for anyone buying a new home, knock off at least another $1200 for getting jammed up in this.

My builder was actually pretty nice.
But I was kind of "forced" to sign the water heater contract because a family member is the co signer on my place and that was their main condition.
3 years later it is still around $1,200 to get out of the contract.

One of their main sales tactics that a lot of these sleaze tactics is to tell you that you will be responsible if anything go wrong and you need to fix your tank.
But what mostt people do not seem to get is that if you look online or in the phone book there are tons of 24 hour reoair services.

[MaryToronto]

One of their main sales tactics that a lot of these sleaze tactics is to tell you that you will be responsible if anything go wrong and you need to fix your tank.
But what mostt people do not seem to get is that if you look online or in the phone book there are tons of 24 hour reoair services.

I just had a repair contractor sent today from direct energy (to replace our broken gas water heater) and informed us that our set up was illegal. (came with house). We have 45 days to fix it or pay 179.00 to this contractor to do it or have our gas shut off.
Anyone know any good contractors out there? All we need is a piece/attachment. Can I call direct energy and tell them I want to buy my own come and pick it up? Will they say "ok... we will fix your problem free of cost" if we keep renting? Is there such a thing as a retention plan from direct energy?
Any suggestions?

[Ockham]

Mary,

You entered into a rental agreement when you bought the house, thus bound by the conditions. There are Natural Gas Code requirements anytime a mechanic touches a piece of equipment. If there is something against Code with your tank then the mechanic is bound by Code and your safety to rectify the situation.

To my knowledge, only Ontario rents water tanks; only N.America uses tanks. A reputable HVAC/Plumbing contractor will install your own power vented fifty gallon tank for approximately $1800-$2000, a tankless unit for approx $3000-$3400. Natural draft tanks are cheaper, but I haven't priced one for awhile.

You should take some time now to find a good heating and/or plumbing contractor. They can explain your current tank situation and options in more detail. They can also service/clean your furnace and should you need a repair in the future you'll already have a contractor selected.

[enigma54]

I have an electric water heater tank that I'm renting for $7.95 per month. That seems like a good deal except I think electricity costs to run this must be higher than running a gas water heater tank? Anyone know how much more?

I'm thinking of getting a new boiler and I've seen a few of these newer products where the boiler is combined with a tankless water heater so I might look into that.

[Ockham]

Using electricity to keep fifty gallons of water hot in your basement is not energy efficient. There are cost savings calculators on the utility (Union Gas) and government (Natural Resources) websites.

If you convert to a boiler then a nice compliment is an indirect storage tank. It uses the boiler as the heat source. Tankless units make more sense in forced air furnace heated homes.

There are products like the NTI Trinity that use mini-buffer tanks within the cabinet that can heat your home and provide domestic hot water. They work best with in-floor radiant systems. However, proper design and installation is critical so choose your contractor wisely.

[rdx]

Just want to get an idea, how much does the tankless system cost? How much for installation? Does Alliance offer tankless option as well?

Thanks

[Ockham]

The installed cost will depend on the complexity of installation. Tankless units average between $2900-$3400. I'm not sure who Alliance is, but most rental companies and contractors install tankless units. Do the math on the rental and make a wise choice.

[rdx]

The installed cost will depend on the complexity of installation. Tankless units average between $2900-$3400. I'm not sure who Alliance is, but most rental companies and contractors install tankless units. Do the math on the rental and make a wise choice.

I am paying about $20/month rental from Aliance. So, the tankless + installation will take me over 15 years to breakeven........... But, I heard it can save energy too as it does not have to constantly keep the water temp in the tank. It is a tough decision to make.........

Actually, it does not cost a lot more than the AC unit. So, if the tank was not installed by my builder and ready to use, I might consider shopping for one.

[Melfice]

When you closed your lawyer should've explain to you the details. If he/she did not, then he/she didn't do their job.

[rdx]

The installed cost will depend on the complexity of installation. Tankless units average between $2900-$3400. I'm not sure who Alliance is, but most rental companies and contractors install tankless units. Do the math on the rental and make a wise choice.


Sorry, my fault. I meant Reliance :lol:

[Ockham]

Reliance rents tankless for $34/m. The extra $14/m will be offset by energy savings along with all the other benefits.

[rdx]

Reliance rents tankless for $34/m. The extra $14/m will be offset by energy savings along with all the other benefits.

Thanks for the info. It is good to know. I am not sure what kind of contract did the builder sign on behalf of me with Reliance. Would Reliance come and install the tankless and move the tank out of the basement for me and only change for me is to pay $34/month instead of $20/month? If that is the case, I am going to seriously consider it.

[Anonymouse]

You have to be Ockham to believe that you're going to save $14/mo with tankless. Even Bosch claims less than this in their wildest marketing fantasy literature.

[Ockham]

Probably. Call them and find out.

[MaryToronto]

Mary,

You should take some time now to find a good heating and/or plumbing contractor. They can explain your current tank situation and options in more detail. They can also service/clean your furnace and should you need a repair in the future you'll already have a contractor selected.

Thanks Ockham. I will do just that. Looking for a good/inexpensive contractor now. Thanks for the advise.

[nhoj09]

Renting vs owning really depends on what you as the home owner are planning over the next little while. Do you plan on living there for 10 plus years or is this house just a stepping stone? If you are planning on staying it is obvious that you would want to purchase a tankless unit. I would definitely recommend a rental if you plan on moving is 2 to 5 years.

Check out EnWise, they are a relatively new player in the market but have grown exponentially...... they must be doing something right.

[Ockham]

If you live in your house longer than five years you lose money with a rental water tank. A resale house is more attractive without a rental lein against it.

[IoannI]

Personally, I like renting the water heater. I prefer the rental because it gives you a peace of mind in case any thing breaks down. If anything breaks down, atleast I know that I am just one phone call away from a repair or even a replacement. I know that I won't have to dish out "x" amount of dollar for labour + parts if it is something that can be repaired. I know that I won't have to dish out "x" amount of dollars for a replacement + labour to install it.

My grandpa had the same mind set for saving money when he purchased his digital cable box. He bought it out from Rogers because he realized that in just over a year, he can pretty much pay it off. About 2 or 3 months ago there was a power surge on the outlet that he had it plugged into and well it fried the box. So he is out that 120 dolllar or so that he paid for the box. Now he is choosing to rent the box because he doesn't want another power surge to fry that box and be out 180 dollar. 180 is the cost of the new box that they provided him.

A few years back with the blackout my DSL modem fried. I was with Bell for the internet and they advised me to plug the modem directly into the wall socket. Well there a power surge and that fried. One call and the next day I had a modem sent to my house and was back on the net. If I was renting I wouldn't only be out "x" amount of the dollars for the friend modem but "x" amount of dollars for the replacement modem.

[Ockham]

The rental = no repair bill could be applied to other purchases. If you rent your house you never have to pay for a new roof, furnace, windows, etc. You could rent a car instead of buying one. Just do the math.