First Manufacturing... What next???

[Chuck Chorus]

So manufacturing has been pretty much hit hard in Canada lately.

What industry do you all think will be in decline next?

Within the next 5-10 years or so?

* Would a University education or College degree guarantee you a job
that wouldn't be included in these sectors?

Why and why not?

Chuck.

[danman227460]

In the growing field, with growing demands, education has changed a lot.

It use to be High school will get you in the door but now that doesn't do it. It use to be a diploma from a university will get in but now that doesn't do it. You need a masters. Soon even that won't do it.

There is no guaranteed job field except the medical field. People will always need medical help.

The next market would be housing I say. You can only build so many expensive condos and houses before no one buys them anymore. That would effect everyone who is a construction working and other tradespeople.

[BornRuff]

Construction, especially ellective stuff like reno's and landscaping, goes up and down with the market. When times are tight people put off building that new addition, or decide to buy an existing house rather than building a new one. It will never go away though, as it is a nessesary part of our world. You can't out source construction.

I can't think of other sectors specifically that are going down the tube right now. Farmers are having troubles, and I think they are deffinatly shrinking in Canada, but I think that long term, because one of our best resources is all the land we have, agriculture will continue to be an important part of our economy. The trouble is though that a lot of the labour required on farms is lower skill, and can be done much cheaper outside of the country, so they are certainly pressured by imports.

In general, the future of developed countries is in skilled and knowledge based professions. There are many places in the world where you can go if all you need is labour, and they are much cheaper than Canada. If we want to keep our high wages, we need to do things that are worth the extra money.

Having a university degree doesn't guaruntee that you will be employed, but it starts you on the right track. With a lot of knowledge, the hope is that you will be able to addapt to changing environments.

[steevee]

I thought I misread when I saw "manufacturing is hard hit lately" and "Oct 2008" at the same time. I guess not.

[makethings]

Thing is though, with all these new graduates from university that we have, we cannot keep. There are simply not enough new businesses created to employ these people. So our knowledge gets sucked dry as our people go to other countries to work.

I am looking at potential jobs for my line of study and after I finish my master's degree, available positions in my field can only be found outside Canada. I want to stay in Canada but that most likely means going further in school earning slave wages via a PhD.

[help_questions]

Construction, especially ellective stuff like reno's and landscaping, goes up and down with the market. When times are tight people put off building that new addition, or decide to buy an existing house rather than building a new one. It will never go away though, as it is a nessesary part of our world. You can't out source construction.

I can't think of other sectors specifically that are going down the tube right now. Farmers are having troubles, and I think they are deffinatly shrinking in Canada, but I think that long term, because one of our best resources is all the land we have, agriculture will continue to be an important part of our economy. The trouble is though that a lot of the labour required on farms is lower skill, and can be done much cheaper outside of the country, so they are certainly pressured by imports.

In general, the future of developed countries is in skilled and knowledge based professions. There are many places in the world where you can go if all you need is labour, and they are much cheaper than Canada. If we want to keep our high wages, we need to do things that are worth the extra money.

Having a university degree doesn't guaruntee that you will be employed, but it starts you on the right track. With a lot of knowledge, the hope is that you will be able to addapt to changing environments.

exactly. the days of the unskilled Canadian worker are done. People need to go to school, and get a degree or learn a trade (that is in demand).

As for a university degree, it is now just the basic to get a good job. Hopefully, employers will start to see that there are so many unemployed university grads and start replacing their college educated employees with university grads.

As for the OP's question, I think learning auto-mechanics would guarantee a job, probably studying as an electrician too.
While the auto sector is declining, Canadians will always need mechanics, as cars will need to be fixed. OP, if you consider auto-mechanics, don't give up and become some GM lifer whose primary function is tightening a screw.


EDIT: what is next.....jobs that do not require specific training or education....we see it will call centers and technical support.

[help_questions]

Thing is though, with all these new graduates from university that we have, we cannot keep. There are simply not enough new businesses created to employ these people. So our knowledge gets sucked dry as our people go to other countries to work.

I am looking at potential jobs for my line of study and after I finish my master's degree, available positions in my field can only be found outside Canada. I want to stay in Canada but that most likely means going further in school earning slave wages via a PhD.

Very true. But while the university grads cannot get the jobs they desire, I expect them to start taking other jobs, jobs that are typically staffed by college grads. Yes there are too many university grads for each to get the job they planned for, but only the really ambitious ones will leave Canada to get better jobs. And I applaud them for doing so.

[BornRuff]

As for a university degree, it is now just the basic to get a good job. Hopefully, employers will start to see that there are so many unemployed university grads and start replacing their college educated employees with university grads.


I actually think colleges will be playing a larger role in the future. Employers increasingly want employees who have all the practical skills before they hire them. They don't want to train people like in the past. This is why so many people are going the university then college route, to get the theory, but then apply that theory to a skilled profession. This is really the way things will have to be, there are only so many jobs that are so emersed in theory that they require PHD's or masters degrees.

[thephenom]

Other than manufacturing, you're starting to see SW Development to start shifting to other countries like India and China. And no, I'm not talking about tech support, but rather on actual software development. While the high level/architect type of design might still remain in North America, there's a lot of lower level development that does not NEED to be done here. The only thing we have going for us is how we have somewhat better intellectual copyright/management.

[Canuck2fan]

I would worry if you work in any job done on a computer. India and Pakistan will soon be coming after anything that can be done on a computer. That includes sales, insurance, stocks if you can click to it it will be gone just like manufacturing. Those two countries are gearing up for it by training millions of workers right now. When the companies who employ people here now in those types of jobs see the savings they will outsource just like manufacturing did.

[BornRuff]

I would worry if you work in any job done on a computer. India and Pakistan will soon be coming after anything that can be done on a computer. That includes sales, insurance, stocks if you can click to it it will be gone just like manufacturing. Those two countries are gearing up for it by training millions of workers right now. When the companies who employ people here now in those types of jobs see the savings they will outsource just like manufacturing did.

That can only be done to an extent. There is a very significant language barrier when you outsource, so jobs that involve interacting with customers you care about can not really be sent there. If you look at most companies who are doing it right now, tech support for existing customers is outsourced, but front line sales is mostly still being done in Canada, and most higher level problem solving is being done in Canada as well.

[Canuck2fan]

That can only be done to an extent. There is a very significant language barrier when you outsource, so jobs that involve interacting with customers you care about can not really be sent there. If you look at most companies who are doing it right now, tech support for existing customers is outsourced, but front line sales is mostly still being done in Canada, and most higher level problem solving is being done in Canada as well.

Yeah, yeah all those arguments are the same ones I heard to justify the thinking that manufacturing could never be outsourced... they turned out to be wrong.

Of course the sales/financial/insurance companies will have to have "store" fronts in Canada but they certainly won't have to maintain the current levels of employees, that most of them have now. I give it less than 10yrs before language is no longer a barrier at all. The people working as tech now overseas are learning and human nature means they will want to move up....

The truth is moving a computer related job is a LOT easier than moving a manufacturing process, for one reason the very technology ITSELF makes it easier.

When you add to that fact the enormity of the markets in Asia compared to ours it is a no brainer... Eventually all the workers over there will want and be able to afford all the services and luxuries we have... Corporations who don't go after that market will be just like GM is now.

[BornRuff]

Yeah, yeah all those arguments are the same ones I heard to justify the thinking that manufacturing could never be outsourced... they turned out to be wrong.

Of course the sales/financial/insurance companies will have to have "store" fronts in Canada but they certainly won't have to maintain the current levels of employees, that most of them have now. I give it less than 10yrs before language is no longer a barrier at all. The people working as tech now overseas are learning and human nature means they will want to move up....

The truth is moving a computer related job is a LOT easier than moving a manufacturing process, for one reason the very technology ITSELF makes it easier.

When you add to that fact the enormity of the markets in Asia compared to ours it is a no brainer... Eventually all the workers over there will want and be able to afford all the services and luxuries we have... Corporations who don't go after that market will be just like GM is now.

What part of what I said could be applied to manufacturing in any way?

Why is is a bad thing for companies to go after global markets?

[Canuck2fan]

What part of what I said could be applied to manufacturing in any way?

Why is is a bad thing for companies to go after global markets?

The language barrier was used as a reason that companies couldn't outsource manufacturing because if you are dealing with tolerances of less a mil getting it right can be the difference between millions made and millions lost. That turned out to be no issue at all. Just like it won't for sales.... Also you didn't say it but you hinted that customers want to be able to meet with who they are buying from. Same type of reasoning used to go that people would only want to buy Canadian products but we all know that is no longer an issue because if you want many things you MUST buy them regardless of where they were made..... because they aren't made here anymore for any amount of money.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with any company embracing globalization. However I have a sense that when these so called intellectual jobs that were supposedly safe leave for off shore it won't be as accepted as easily as the loss of the manufacturing sector. I have been wrong before though and might be now.

[BornRuff]

A language barrier within a company is very different than a language barrier between a company and their customers. A comapny pay's it's employees to do their job, they have to put more effort into understanding each other because it's their job. I was talking about relationships with their customers. Because of existing cultural differences, I feel that we a long way off from companies being able to export important customer relations roles like I mentioned above over seas.

[Canuck2fan]

I don't think it will be that long. Most companies already enjoy the savings that come from going off shore with their back room services and this economic slowdown will just increase the pressure to move anything remaining that much faster. Again all any company has to do is just keep an office here with a few token VP's and a couple of sales staff and they will do all right.

If every company does it the consumer will just have to play along because it will bring cheaper prices just like moving the manufacturing jobs overseas did. Of course if no one here is working they won't really need to buy anything but so far that hasn't caused a problem. Why would moving all the white collar jobs be any different?

[DeimosBeros]

So move all blue collar and white collar jobs overseas and our population is left with what exactly? I might be making a ton of assumptions here, but how's the country is going to pay for the baby boomer pensions and employment insurance benefits for everyone else that's unemployed? If the costs of living don't decrease proportionally to the decreasing average living wage, I don't know how a lot of folks are going to make it.
Perhaps a WW3 to filter out the masses?

[help_questions]

So move all blue collar and white collar jobs overseas and our population is left with what exactly? I might be making a ton of assumptions here, but how's the country is going to pay for the baby boomer pensions and employment insurance benefits for everyone else that's unemployed? If the costs of living don't decrease proportionally to the decreasing average living wage, I don't know how a lot of folks are going to make it.
Perhaps a WW3 to filter out the masses?

which does back to the point that today, people in Canada have to be well educated and skilled. The days of the unskilled worker are done.