Vacation days

[reservoir_dogs]

Hi all, have this weird situation..

I started a new job with a bunch of other new employees.. During the orientation, we are told of 2-weeks of paid vacation every year (this amount increases after your 3rd year though). I'm a new grad (entry-level), while everyone else was not, and have experience (I should note that we are all working in different departments, but have the same orientation).

So that's all fine and good. I then met a co-worker of mine, who just started about 3-4 weeks before me, and she told me that she has 3-weeks of paid vacation. She isn't really that much older than me, maximum 10 years older. So I thought maybe it's because she has lots of experience.. but then the new employees in my orientation have experience too, and were just as old as my co-worker.

So my curiosity grew, and now I'm trying to find the best way to ask HR why this is.. I feel pretty uncomfortable to bring this up because:
a.) I'm a new employee, I feel that I shouldn't intrude
b.) I'll be putting my co-worker in an uncomfortable situation
c.) I've already asked many questions, I'd hate to ask another

Any advice on how I should tackle this?

[B0000rt]

Are you sure she doesn't hold a higher position than you?

Where I work Associates and AVPs get 4 weeks vacation.
While VPs get 5 weeks.

[reservoir_dogs]

Are you sure she doesn't hold a higher position than you?

Where I work Associates and AVPs get 4 weeks vacation.
While VPs get 5 weeks.

Well I know she isn't a manager, or VP or anything high like that. I was under the impression (through the orientation) that new employees get the 2-weeks. The fact that the new employees at my orientation (who have valuable work experience) gets 2-weeks as well is what made me create this thread..

[Engi-Nir]

Companies offer additional week of salary to close the deal if they are a bit off from the salary the candidate wants. Basically, per say the candidate's salary requirement is $2-$5k below what company can offer, due to maximum the budget allows for, they automatically offer another week vacation. People prefer the additional week as oppose to more money.

And sometimes, candidates also ask for a certain salary and demand a 3 weeks vacation, which the company will agree to.

If a person must leave an existing company where they are already at 3 weeks, the company has to offer than the same deal to get them to switch over to their company.

it is all on circumstances, and how valuable the candidate is for the company.

[cgtlky]

Paid vacation leave will only be given to you when you becomes a full time permanent employee of the company (usually after the probationary period of at least/most 3 months). When I was a newly hired I was told once I become permanent employee I get 12 days vacation on my 1st year, then 13 days on the 2nd year until it reach a maximum of 20 days per year. The higher your position the more vacation days you get (but not all company have the same policy). Don't believe hearsay or what other employee telling you ask your manager or talk to the HR manager about it. Whether you are a newbie or senior level you entitled to know your benefits.

[reservoir_dogs]

And sometimes, candidates also ask for a certain salary and demand a 3 weeks vacation, which the company will agree to.


I guess this is possible. However when I told my co-worker that I had 2 weeks (I assumed she had 2 as well), she seemed surprised since she had 3. Her response made it seem like she was given the 3 weeks, as opposed to it being negotiated.. but who knows.

[coolspot]

Well I know she isn't a manager, or VP or anything high like that. I was under the impression (through the orientation) that new employees get the 2-weeks. The fact that the new employees at my orientation (who have valuable work experience) gets 2-weeks as well is what made me create this thread..

She probably negotiated a better deal that you, or was given a better deal. There could be many factors.

It's all part of the game little grasshopper.

[Gmas]

Unless you're working in a standardized job, it's not unusual and actually expected for different people to earns different amounts and have different perks. It really comes down to what you negotiate and how well you can sell the fact that you deserve them.

[rems]

Companies are also willing to match the vacation days the new hire was getting with the previous employer

[michelb]

She could have just negotiated for more vacation (when I accepted my current job, I took less money and more vacation time)

[brucemeng]

she got a better deal than you... either suck it up or get a new job...

I have to work at my current place for 7 years before getting an additional week... I'd imagine vacation bargaining isn't easy with that kind of policy.

[nalababe]

there are a number of possibilities: they changed the plan between the two hirings; equivalent to a signing bonus; mis-understanding of vacation (if you get them, did one of you count Floats/Diversity days).

From experience, it is hard to have someone differ from the standard plan. It is normally quite an effort from a HR point of view to Justify. Often you will only see if for Senior Managers.

In the past I have tried to "trade" salary for Vacation. I have never been successful. Now, I don't care as much as I am at 5 weeks plus 4 float days. A another week or so would be fine, but any more and I would risk too much in potential bonuses--as one dollar could mean the difference of 3 or 4 thousand in bonus.

[sillysimms]

Different people negotiate different things and are given different offers to entice them to join a company. It's not always fair, but it's the way it goes. It is usually a good idea (depending on your particular circumstances - how much you need the job, how difficult the position is to fill and how much they want YOU) to negotiate something rather than just accept the first offer they give you.

I'm in a similar situation. Been at my company several years, they're now hiring several new people and having difficulty filling the positions. I recently saw the job ad and they're offering the new starts more money than those of us who have been there for years. I'm going to ask HR about it but have already started looking around and am finding I could easily get more $ elsewhere. Sometimes, once you have experience, unfortunately the way to get a better deal is to take your skills elsewhere. The work world doesn't always operate "fairly".

[at1212b]

When you say co-worker, I assume its not in your direct team or same role.

I'm willing to bet that she has a position that is higher then you (ie higher job band or level).

[brucemeng]

Different people negotiate different things and are given different offers to entice them to join a company. It's not always fair, but it's the way it goes. It is usually a good idea (depending on your particular circumstances - how much you need the job, how difficult the position is to fill and how much they want YOU) to negotiate something rather than just accept the first offer they give you.

I'm in a similar situation. Been at my company several years, they're now hiring several new people and having difficulty filling the positions. I recently saw the job ad and they're offering the new starts more money than those of us who have been there for years. I'm going to ask HR about it but have already started looking around and am finding I could easily get more $ elsewhere. Sometimes, once you have experience, unfortunately the way to get a better deal is to take your skills elsewhere. The work world doesn't always operate "fairly".

I thought you were in HR? And the world does indeed not operate fairly, the world operates efficiently (at least that's its goal).

[reservoir_dogs]

she got a better deal than you... either suck it up or get a new job...


If you read my original post, I wasn't necessarily complaining. I was more or less asking HOW i should pose this question to the HR representative.

[reservoir_dogs]

It is usually a good idea (depending on your particular circumstances - how much you need the job, how difficult the position is to fill and how much they want YOU) to negotiate something rather than just accept the first offer they give you.


That is a good strategy that I will keep in mind. However, I feel that I'm in no position to bargain, considering I'm a new-grad at an entry-level position. (before you make the comment that the reason why I only get 2 weeks, and not 3, is because I'm a "new grad", recall in my original post that I was with other experienced employees in the orientation who also receive only 2 weeks).

[reservoir_dogs]

When you say co-worker, I assume its not in your direct team or same role.

I'm willing to bet that she has a position that is higher then you (ie higher job band or level).

You are correct, the co-worker is not my "direct team"... But from what I see, she may be a little higher, but not that much IMO.

[longtimeRFDreader]

What question(s) exactly do you intend to ask to HR? Anything that it is related to someone else's compensation (including vacation), it's none of your business, really. HR will simply respond that it's their policy to keep everyone's compensation secret, and colleagues shouldn't be divulging how much they earn, etc.. (Of course, nobody really follow those rules after a couple of drinks).

The only questions you are entitled to ask are related to your own compensation. In your case, everything has been set when you first joined. Either way, 2 weeks is ok for new grads. Chances are, you'll be jumping ship in 2 years or so. Just focus on learning and realizing what you like to do.

[sillysimms]

I thought you were in HR? And the world does indeed not operate fairly, the world operates efficiently (at least that's its goal).

I do have an HR background and many years employment in HR. My current position is not actually in the HR department at our firm. There was a merger and a lot of turnover in the HR department and a lot of unhappy people. I moved by choice to another department where I felt at the time, based on my knowledge of the company, that it was a positive atmosphere.

[MoreMiles]

... I wasn't necessarily complaining....

Geeze, are you a politician, being so vague? Either you were or you weren't.

If you were, then you have to ask "are you worth it or are you replaceable"?

It's like buying a house, there is no point to be frustrated about how your next door neighbor gets an offer better than yours. It's all about offer-counter offer negotiating. Now you have accepted an offer, you may get your boss upset by regretting it. Your boss may simply replace you. Can you afford for that to happen, in this economic climate? If yes, then go ahead... remember, it's all offer-counter offer gambling. You may lose by being too aggressive.

[reservoir_dogs]

The only questions you are entitled to ask are related to your own compensation. In your case, everything has been set when you first joined. Either way, 2 weeks is ok for new grads. Chances are, you'll be jumping ship in 2 years or so. Just focus on learning and realizing what you like to do.

Yeah I agree, I guess I was naive and assumed that new employees sort of start out equally, which is not the case.

But again, the only puzzling me about this whole thing is that there are new employees who started relatively higher, and still get the 2 weeks, so that's why I made the thread..

Thanks for the response.

[MoreMiles]

For a small business, most employment contracts will indicate that any salary / benefit term is strictly confidential. This will reduce envy / jealousy among the workers. An employee may be terminated with cause based on leaking this information to cause work site collegial harmony disturbance.

Count yourself lucky that you even know how much others get. Normally, you don't even have this privilege.

[reservoir_dogs]

For a small business, most employment contracts will indicate that any salary / benefit term is strictly confidential. This will reduce envy / jealousy among the workers. An employee may be terminated with cause based on leaking this information to cause work site collegial harmony disturbance.

Count yourself lucky that you even know how much others get. Normally, you don't even have this privilege.

Wow, I've never heard of such a clause in a contract. But I wouldn't consider the company I work for as "small" anyway, but I can understand why a company would implement this information as confidential. Hmmm, learn something new everyday.

[MoreMiles]

It's not just for a small business only. You need to read your employment contract very carefully. There is usually a section on "Trade Secret, Confidentiality, or even Non-Competition".

You may be sued for damages if a company secret such its employment salary or customer list is leaked.

Obviously you are not very aware of employment contract delicacy. It is not unusual to have a contract printed on 5-10 pages with numerous legal jargon.

[sillysimms]

MoreMiles is right regarding this. A clause stating your salary is confidential is quite common not only in small businesses, but very common in large ones as well. You likely signed an employment contract that stated the terms of your employment. There are usually a lot of other conditions in that contract. At my place of work (large) employees' salaries are confidential and as per the contract all new employees sign, revealing your salary to anyone can result in immediate termination. Our contract does not state that benefits/vacation provisions are confidential, only salaries.

[reservoir_dogs]

It's not just for a small business only. You need to read your employment contract very carefully. There is usually a section on "Trade Secret, Confidentiality, or even Non-Competition".

You may be sued for damages if a company secret such its employment salary or customer list is leaked.

Obviously you are not very aware of employment contract delicacy. It is not unusual to have a contract printed on 5-10 pages with numerous legal jargon.

Well I did read through my contract (spent pretty much the first half of my first-day doing so), and I really do not recall a section on this, so it seems that my company does not carry this policy.

Either way, it's good to know about these situations.

[fly]

You are correct, the co-worker is not my "direct team"... But from what I see, she may be a little higher, but not that much IMO.

I am "a little higher" than most people in my company and I started out with 4 weeks vacation....

Most companies give entry level positions 2 weeks vacation. If you have a couple of years under your belt, 3 weeks vacation is the norm.. Once you have specialized experience, you can start negotiating things such as 4 weeks vacation. You don't have to stay at a company for 25 years to get 8 weeks vacation if your skills are in demand.