Question about Second Career Government program and College Questions.

[supsx]

I am thinking of going back to college for a change in career, my previous background was in a computer technician support role, the stress was some what bad and that pay wasen't great and I don't think I want to do that for another 40 years till I retire, especially if I have to start a family in the future.

I have no real education from an accredited school, I dropped out of Seneca college in the first part of the program years ago for various reasons, the program I took was related to the career I took up in computers later on but some of the courses they gave me were useless and boring, I mean what does psycology have to do with computers. Some of the classes were also around 30 students which I didn't like, I think it may have been because it was a popular course, I was told by another friend that took about less popular program that most of his classes only had 15-20 students.

My schedule was also messed up and tiring I had 2 days that I was at school from 8am to 7pm, one day was with a lot of breaks in between which I wasted time with friends and not get anything done because going home and coming back was not an option because of the distance and the other day was mostly classes, on those days I would get home around 8-9pm depending on how traffic was, by then I would be tired and just go to sleep not studying. I had Friday off which was good but I would have rather be in school on friday and have a shorter day on the two long days.

Any how now that I am unemployed I have looked at Second career...
http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/tcu/secondcareer/index.html

I am wondering if anyone has taken a program from Second Career and can tell me there experience, I am hoping they don't send you to a useless private college or something like that because that would be a waste of time. I am not really sure what to take hopefully they can help with that because I am not sure what I want to do or what options I have.

So far all I know is that I want to go to an accredited school where I could take courses Monday to Friday from like 9-3 instead of having to go through a long day, this would also allow me time to study in the evening without being tired, this worked best for me also in highschool where I did better studying at home. I don't want time off in between classes because I would just waste that time from my previous experiences.

I also want if its an option to choose a program that doesn't have many projects working with others in a group, I always do poorly in school projects with others because the students don't take it seriously, I end up doing a lot of the projects on my own which is a pain and unfair so if it has to be that way I would rather do less group projects. On top of that I guess a smaller less popular program would be good because there may be a chance for a smaller class, which in turn would be a better learning experience.

Other thoughts: I was thinking in going the self employment route, but I would need to get an education, maybe a program that would teach you a career in something that could lead to self employment would be good. There is an entrepreneur program at I think George but from what I read that is geared to people to build a business plan on an idea you have, which I don't.

I think I will stop writing, some of you will say that I am rambling to much but I had a lot on my mind and feel confused and it seems my post has come out confused also, but if I go to school I don't want to drop out because of things I don't like. What help can I get from RFD?

edit:
I forgot to add maybe a program with CO-OP at end would be good to.

[BornRuff]

I know that these second career programs involve employment counsellors, so go talk to them, as they could help you find a bit of direction.

I've never been to college, so I don't know how it is there, but from going to university, classes of 30 students would be incredibly small. I have classes of up to 400 students, with 40-60 being the smaller end. I don't think it is realistic to go into college expecting 15 student classes, I don't see how a college could survive like that.

[supsx]

I know that these second career programs involve employment counsellors, so go talk to them, as they could help you find a bit of direction.

I've never been to college, so I don't know how it is there, but from going to university, classes of 30 students would be incredibly small. I have classes of up to 400 students, with 40-60 being the smaller end. I don't think it is realistic to go into college expecting 15 student classes, I don't see how a college could survive like that.

400 wow thats crazy, are you sure that it was a regular class and not a lecture, I didn't include lecture classes because there were around atleast 100 people around most lecture classes I had because I think they combine classes from other area and I think the public is also able to attend some lecture classes for free if I am not mistaken.

[funnykid]

Ummm I don't mean to shock you, but most of my classes in my first two years of university has 1200+ people (no, I did not type an extra zero). My smallest class so far has 100+ people.

I don't know much about college, but in universityyou are bound to encounter schedules where there are small to large gaps between classes. I don't like them either, but you have to understand the university/college is doing the best they can to balance out everyone's schedules so we all get some gaps, meaning no one gets stuck with a lot of gaps and someone gets a schedule with consecutive classes. I'm pretty sure the staff at Seneca is doing everything they can to accommodate everyone.

[tyk]

If you're unemployed, going to an Employment Assessment Centre would be a good thing to do. They can help you find out what resources are out there for the unemployed... this also includes entrepreneur resources. I think the assessments are Government-funded and are free.

[Octavius]

400 wow thats crazy, are you sure that it was a regular class and not a lecture, I didn't include lecture classes because there were around atleast 100 people around most lecture classes I had because I think they combine classes from other area and I think the public is also able to attend some lecture classes for free if I am not mistaken.

Dunno about college either...but in LECTURES, most of my classes in first year were 350-450 students. In second year, it was more around 100-120. In third year it tapered off around 60. In fourth year it was around 30-40.

It's difficult to get into the really small class sizes until you reach the upper year level courses...even then, you can still expect a fair number of students, especially if the course in question is required by a number of students to graduate and/or if the course is very interesting.

Sucks you don't like "large" class sizes of 30+, but it's something you're going to have to live with if you go back to school. Colleges/Universities are businesses - no different from retailers or manufacturers. They too have to make money...which is why the class sizes are so large.

With education cuts over the past 20 years, the colleges and universities have had little option other than to accept more students and charge more tuition, while still keeping on the same number of professors.

You can try taking some courses via DVD. I know some Universities like Carleton offer the service where they record certain classes lectures onto a DVD and mail it to you a few days later. You then watch the lectures, complete the prescribed assignments, and write the exam along with the rest of your classmates. This also provides people with the chance to go back to school if they have really busy lives and can't afford to take time off work/family to go to class one or two nights a week.

So there are options available...but small class sizes in your first few years aren't one them.

[brgnshopper]

Does anyone know what the approval process for the second career strategy program is? Ultimatley is it up to your case worker to decided to recommend or reject the application?

[supsx]

Does anyone know what the approval process for the second career strategy program is? Ultimatley is it up to your case worker to decided to recommend or reject the application?

I talked to someone about this at the employment insurance office, they said I need to be looking for work from my previous career before I try applying for the second career program. They didn't go into the major details about it but she said I would have to go to an assesment center if I still can't find work after trying to find work in my field.

Anyone have experience going through the process?

[lame23]

I talked to someone about this at the employment insurance office, they said I need to be looking for work from my previous career before I try applying for the second career program. They didn't go into the major details about it but she said I would have to go to an assesment center if I still can't find work after trying to find work in my field.

Anyone have experience going through the process?

Im also looking for somebody who had went through the process of the second career program by the govt...in my case, im employed part-time in retail and finished 2 years in a 4 year nursing degree program and have decided that it is not the right career path for me.....will this govt program help me choose another career as Im not sure yet of what to do or offer any financial help?

[brgnshopper]

I contacted my local assessment centre and it's a long process to apply. It's not just as simple as you want to switch careers. The government will fund individuals who do not have the skills and training required for their field of work or your field has become obsolete. If you are skilled in your field, then you will need to prove that you cannot find work. It may be a long process but worth it if you are approved.

Has anyone gone through the entire process?

[raulortega1]

That's true. I did go to some sessions with a counsellor and they require you to go to job-search seminars - which they help you book. On top of that, they assess you to see if the job you are interested in really needs you to go to college for and if you need funding for it. It's definitely a long process and if you are in need of employment TODAY or in the next few months, forget about it.

Strange because the program says it is ideal if you are recently laid off. I can see why the process is long and assessment heavy but at the end of the day, I find it just adds more stress.

[supsx]

I got an application form from an employment counseller and got more information. The appilcation is 20 pages (not a typo) and I have to go to a session next week. The process can take anywhere from 8-12 weeks and you have to do all the work researching what college you wan't to go to.

From what I see this seems to be osap with a different name, if you don't qualify for osap you most likely won't qualify for second career. If you have any savings it seems your screwed, its kind of sad really considering you work all these friggin years, saving your minimum wage to get ahead and when you do save you get punished in the end no matter what, instead I should have got drunk every night like everyone else and waste money on junk, so I have nothing in my bank account then of course I would qualify because I would be a complete moron. In my opinion this seems to be the ontario government way of pushing us into a depression like the early 1900's they want you to have no money, god forbid you saved some money working for peanuts. No wonder less then 1000 people qualified in all of ontario, if you have a networth of more then $20,000 your considered rich here.

I don't know I could be wrong lets see what happens.

[DeimosBeros]

Heh. And here I thought I could qualify since I was laid off from aluminum extrusion in august, even after making the steel workers union.
Though I think I wouldn't get into Second Career since I've since gone back to university full time. Hmph, oh well.

[fbb50]

hi! i was taking second career too, i just to my advison last july 15 submit all the papers, and they did not accept one of my papers, so they told me to go back in August, but i was suppose to go to vpi already now they move it coz 1 of the paper is invalid, and my school start Sept, but i cant go, so they told me i am looking going to schoo next year, and i run out of EI so i was looking to go on OSAP, so anybody wants to give me advice on this, do you think i wait for sc on go on OSAP,OSAP takes 3 weeks, so if i take OSAP i can go to school this Sept..... it not sure yet if im qualified....

[jonyrod]

Sorry to hear about your news of not getting processed for second career. I know that can be very frustrating. There is another thread on hear (this site) called "second career feedback"...Its quite long but there is some very useful information in the posts by several people who been trying like you to get into second career.

In your situation, you were accepted by "VPI" to start in September of this year. You have a few options...

1) Pay the deferment fee (usually about $150.00) until your OSAP comes through, this will secure you a spot in the program so you don't have to wait, until your OSAP comes in. Its only July now, so if you act quickly you can get this done.

2) if SC has said you will have to wait and go to school in 2010, resubmit papers with ALL of the correct information this time. Have others check it over as well, go to a neighbour or a teacher or somebody who can read very well and understand that you must have all the pertinent information when you apply. You can defer aceptance to your program for a later start date and have the SC people assess your application for funding. You'll have to wait longer but, if your going to be getting funding the second time around isn't it better to reapply?

3) if you take deferment of acceptance (meaning you decline acceptance for one academic year) until you get funding. Get a job or two to help pay your bills until you hear from SC or the school holding a position for you to start. You will have money later and who knows what type of funding SC will give you.

$) if you choose OSAP, remember that right now funding is usually 50% Loans and 50% Grants, so you don't carry a huge debt load.

Just my thoughts.

Good Luck

[Jennipher]

I got an application form from an employment counseller and got more information. The appilcation is 20 pages (not a typo) and I have to go to a session next week. The process can take anywhere from 8-12 weeks and you have to do all the work researching what college you wan't to go to.

From what I see this seems to be osap with a different name, if you don't qualify for osap you most likely won't qualify for second career. If you have any savings it seems your screwed, its kind of sad really considering you work all these friggin years, saving your minimum wage to get ahead and when you do save you get punished in the end no matter what, instead I should have got drunk every night like everyone else and waste money on junk, so I have nothing in my bank account then of course I would qualify because I would be a complete moron. In my opinion this seems to be the ontario government way of pushing us into a depression like the early 1900's they want you to have no money, god forbid you saved some money working for peanuts. No wonder less then 1000 people qualified in all of ontario, if you have a networth of more then $20,000 your considered rich here.

I don't know I could be wrong lets see what happens.


so wrong....osap and second career are completely different, you should read the second career topic that's been opened and has been being actively discussed by those applying/ or have already been approved for SC.

[jonyrod]

Hi,

If you're considering Second Career Program you have to be laid off within the last three years to be eligible for it otherwise you can't apply. I'm not sure if you were laid off or just quit your old job. But in any case, go to private colleges. They have experience instructors, smaller classes and more time flexibility. Also you finish faster and you don't have to take silly electives as you do in community college. I think private colleges work hard to cater to the student and because of the great competition among colleges, private colleges try to offer co-op and other benefits. The only problem is that private college costs a bit more but you finish in a year so you can get a jumstart on your career.

so
1. figure out if you're even eligible for second career funding
http://www.biztechinstitute.com/frmApplySecondCareer.aspx

2. shop around for colleges ( private and public)
3. find the college that offers more for less
4. once you do that their counselor will help you to decide your career
5. Don't go to a college just because of their name. Analyze the course outline and make sure they offer you hands-on experience and co-op. Don't consider a college that doesn't offer some kind of co-op or internship.


hope this helps

good luck :)

Hi:

You make some very relevant points regarding career colleges. True, the classes can be smaller and they do have some very good teachers who teach their programs for them. BUT>>>> Know the school that you are planning to attend. Check out past graduates, and see what they had to say about their experiences. See where they are working these days or not working. Not all private career colleges are recognised by the Ministry of Colleges and University's in Ontario...let's say Everest or Trios, or the Institute of Technology...for the all the money you are going to pay to these places somewhere in excess of $20,000.00 to be put into a Fast Track program can be daunting. You have to be totally on-top of all the work you will be doing, Miss a day or a few days, you will fall behind quickly, and because its a fast track program, the instructors don't take the time to go over missed material because you were sick or forgot to get up for class or you had to work a part time job. Some schools (private) are not really recognised by the industry that you wish to enter into, so do your homework before you plunk down 15-20k for a program. Community colleges are great, sure you might have to take an elective course but its one of your own choosing, that helps to round out your education and its part of the college curriculum. Like the previous poster has mentioned, do your home work first when choosing a career path and speak to a counsellor at your local centre for SC, they should be able to give you direction in pursuing a second career option which best supports your needs and interests.

Just my two cents.

[nfake83]

I've been working on the 20 page second career/skills development application. If it's true as mentioned elsewhere that only 1000 people have qualified, I can believe it. You have to compare the programmes offered by at least two Ontario colleges. OK, sounds reasonable. I’m paraphrasing here: How long has the college offered the specific programme you are applying to? What are the specific qualifications of the instructor? What is the instructor’s experience? Is the equipment at the college suitable for your programme?

I actually called the college that already accepted me. They had no idea when that department was opened. They’ll get back to me. I can imagine the response the college’s HR people would have if I ask to see the instructors’ resumes and licenses.

Leave questions blank though and you’ll get an automatic rejection. Fill in all the blanks and rejection will take a little longer. My counsellor is quite supportive. But counsellors don’t make these decisions. The file is sent elsewhere and some faceless bureaucrats make a ruling.

Still, I will jump through every hoop. What else can I do?

Death by a thousand paper cuts!

[jonyrod]

I've been working on the 20 page second career/skills development application. If it's true as mentioned elsewhere that only 1000 people have qualified, I can believe it. You have to compare the programmes offered by at least two Ontario colleges. OK, sounds reasonable. I’m paraphrasing here: How long has the college offered the specific programme you are applying to? What are the specific qualifications of the instructor? What is the instructor’s experience? Is the equipment at the college suitable for your programme?

I actually called the college that already accepted me. They had no idea when that department was opened. They’ll get back to me. I can imagine the response the college’s HR people would have if I ask to see the instructors’ resumes and licenses.

Leave questions blank though and you’ll get an automatic rejection. Fill in all the blanks and rejection will take a little longer. My counsellor is quite supportive. But counsellors don’t make these decisions. The file is sent elsewhere and some faceless bureaucrats make a ruling.

Still, I will jump through every hoop. What else can I do?

Death by a thousand paper cuts!

Hey there:

I had the same problems when filling in my application at first and its true what you say, about the college not knowing when a particular program actually started. This information is easy to get even information about the instructors.

Here is what you do. Go to the website for your school and look under the History of the school. When the college was actually founded. This can be found in either FAQ (frequently asked questions) or google for example "the history of seneca college" up will come various links and just read through the different links until you find your answers. if there is no direct answer to when the school started your program. I would put down the year that the college started. This way to a MTCU applicant reviewer it would look like your program has been around for a long time.

Instructor's qualifications. You can either google them..if you know they're names...or on the college website look under or search "Faculty" or "Faculty of let's say Tourism..or Computer/I.T." It should list there the names of the current faculty or staff for your program. You will be able to read their backgrounds and qualifications whether they have Msc. or Phd. etc.

I hope this helps, this is what I did when I couldn't get information from the college I applied to first time out. Oh yes and its true, under most colleges and private career colleges it is "illegal" for the college to provide information about students names for college references. You know those little blurbs on the undergraduate calenders, sometimes it will read "..Jane Brown, RPN Graduate 2004.." Then Jane gives her opinion of her program...you can use that "quote" as a "reference to your program"..well......"Jane Brown RPN Nursing said".......blah, blah, blah about her experience in the nursing program back in 2004". Sometimes you have to get creative and think outside of the box. If you are not eager to do SC and expect someone to hand you the answers regarding the SC application, then Maybe SC is not for you. You have to do your part, the college doesn't have the time to just hand you the answers. They want to see what type of effort you are willing to make to find out information regarding your program.

Good Luck

[nala310]

Second Career has to be one of the most poorly planned ideas in Canadian History. After jumping through miles of red tape and driving back and forth to a counseller who didn't know the answers to most questions, I finally got to the finish line only for the Canadian Goverment to slap me in the face. Here's what I've learned about Second Career so far...The maximum is 28000 for the course, sounds good right? Well, if the course is 2 years you get 14000/year. Still sounds good, ok not as good. Now for the deductions, first they take the tuition from that anywhere from 4000-6000$/year. Thus leaving you under 10000 dollars. Now you need books, anywhere from 500 and up for that. Now 9500 left, minus parking/bus pass, school supplies (paper, binders, pens, etc) and any other school charges (criminal check for some courses), and you may have about 8500 for the year. Now divide that by 12 leaving about 700$/month. Now the goverment takes taxes off of this so you'll get about 300 bi weekly to live on. Now I don't know how anyone can live on that. Between rent/mortgage and utilities, you'll be lucky if you can cover all of that even. That leaves nothing for food, thanks Canada for once again screwing up what looked to be a great idea. Oh yeah, and you also recieve no money between June and September when you're out of school for summer. They expect you to find a full time job for four months to sustain yourself. What a joke. The new Canadian Motto "Great in theory, poor in execution." I am so disgusted by this, they wonder why so many people cheat the system with welfare, mother allowance, etc. They make it so the honest people get screwed over everytime. Oh yeah, one last thing, I had to first pay 95$ out of pocket to apply for school, with no guarantee of getting in either the course or funding from Second Career, and no refund on that. Then had to pay another 65$ to take an English equivalency test since the High School is closed and I can't get my transcript any other way. So I'm out 160$ that I can't afford with no guarantees of anything. This is a joke the way this is set up. Way to screw over the poor more then ever. Second career is working great for those in goverment jobs who can get more work and the colleges who get everyone application fee, but the little people who need the money get ripped off left, right and center.